Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Ami Graves, CHRO at Bell Techlogix, Inc.
Transcript
- Kelsey Willock (00:42) Welcome Amy Graves, CHRO at Bell Techlogix, Inc. We are so beyond excited to have you today. So to kick us off, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience, a little bit about your career and background, where you're calling in from, and your current role today. Ami Graves (00:58) Okay, sure. Yes, Amy Graves. I am the CHRO at Beltec Logix. We're an IT managed services company headquartered in Indianapolis. We've got employees across the globe. So we're growing and it's always an exciting time to be in tech, right? I've been in HR for about, well, I think I stopped counting after 25 years. That just seems to be like the solid number to say. So 25 years plus, And I've spent time in nonprofit, manufacturing, life sciences, and again, the most last eight years in IT. I sit in Indianapolis. I'm talking to you from my home office today, and I look forward to the conversation. Kelsey Willock (01:42) Well, we're really excited to have you and I think our audience is gonna learn a ton from you. I'm also a fellow Midwestern-er, but I hail from Illinois. So before I you, I actually, know Uyghur, but my mom plays. Ami Graves (01:48) Okay. So you must play, you must play Yooker, right Kelsey? Okay. I don't know if that's an Indiana thing or a Midwest thing, but here it's like you play euchre if you're an Indiana. Kelsey Willock (02:03) A big thing. Yeah. So my mom does. My mom lives at the southernmost border of Michigan, right next to Indiana in a really cool town called Union Pier. So I am very familiar, but unfortunately I do not have the talent myself. Another time. So ⁓ before diving into all the amazing work that you're doing, I want to get to know you and your earliest memories first. Ami Graves (02:12) Got it. Okay, another time we'll talk about that. Kelsey Willock (02:30) So if you'll indulge me, can you tell me your earliest money memory? Ami Graves (02:35) Yeah. So it's funny, this question, I have a couple of thoughts when I think about this question. So my first memory of money, I'm going to actually talk about my dad owned a small business, a trucking company. And while this isn't about money that I made, this was a, it left a lasting impression on me. And I'll never forget being a young kid. I think I might've been seven or eight or something like that. And I walked into my father's office. and he was sitting in his he was at his desk but his feet were propped up on his desk and he was kind of leaning back in his chair and his hands are back here and he was he was thinking and I remember saying to him wow dad I can't wait to be the president of a company like you and I'm gonna do what you're doing right now and I'm gonna golf and because I obviously my dad was taking customers golfing and he just so calmly pulled his legs down, kind of sat up straight. He said, Amy, yes, I'm the president of this company. But don't you ever forget, I am a truck driver at heart. And at the time, I was like, okay, yeah, you know, but of course, as I got older, I very much understood what he meant by that. And it's it was, you know, titles can be misleading and successful stuff different to everyone. And how much money we make doesn't necessarily match our titles. I learned that as I was growing older too, watching him in business and a very tough, tough kind of tough kind of business. So that was a memory that stuck with me ⁓ a little broader than just money. But I think certainly I related it to money when I thought about titles and success and that sort of thing. For me, my first, ⁓ gosh, my first job, I was 14 years old, I worked as a waitress inside of a really nice kind of retirement home where people like it was like they have their apartments and they came to this exact same restaurant at for morning, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner. And they had set menus like you know, it was a rotating menu. But so you got to know these residents because every single night from four to seven, I would go here to work. And of course, you know, it's a retirement home. So they eat dinner. 430, right? So we would we would go and I would serve all these, you know, customers or the residents rather. And I had that job for a couple years as the first kind of money I made on my own. I was saving for a car and probably spending money at places like, I don't know, Deb and dots or 579 or wherever those shops were that when I was a kid that I swore I had to spend all my money. those are probably my earliest memories of money related. you know, things. Kelsey Willock (05:23) I, your answer around your earliest money memory is one of the more unique ones I've heard because so many times I asked this question to senior leaders like yourself and it's the memory of, you the first time I got money from a parent, maybe from the tooth fairy, these very visceral memories of physical money. And I love your example of the moment that your dad really showed such humility. You know, you're not better than the employees that you employ and kind of understanding is roots. So, Ami Graves (05:45) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Kelsey Willock (05:52) My next question for you is how do you think both of these experiences shaped how you see freedom, security, and even responsibility? Ami Graves (05:59) Yeah, no question it grounded me. mean, the fact that I'm even, you know, recollecting that memory, I think tells you that it stuck with me my whole life. Now, what, how I interpreted that ⁓ changed as I got older and understood how work works. But I, I've carried that lesson throughout my career and Kelsey Willock (06:07) Mm. Ami Graves (06:20) you know, throughout my learning, you know, an employee journey. I'm an employee too, you know, and I think that it, my dad just taught me so much. I mean, he ran a small business, but he, my dad was very interested in teaching lessons and those lessons were about working hard. ⁓ Having grit, you know, my dad and I talk about that a lot these days It was about my dad would always say I better not hear you say it for the four-letter word and he was not thinking about the four-letter word that might everyone might think about his four-letter word was can't So anytime I would say can't you know, he'd say I don't want to hear that four-letter word. So Those were the kinds of I think things that my dad was instilling in me that you know, I just I think that they just became a part of who I was and am. I'm a hard worker. I love to work. I do get a lot of my, you know, I guess, pride and self-identity out of work. But I also am humble enough to say, like, I don't want to get hung up on titles. I like the experiences. I'm a constant learner. I believe that you should treat people kind and with compassion, no matter if they're a janitor or the CEO, we all bring our experiences to work. all human. So I just think that there's so many like life lessons that maybe kind of start in those early years and even start around money and work and success. But they're just more meaningful than just money, right? Kelsey Willock (07:57) Right. How do you think these money stories and experiences have affected how you show up for your employees and think about pay equity and benefits? Ami Graves (08:07) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, obviously I work in HR. So pay equity is not just, you know, a thing that's important to me as a woman where we know that there are, you know, disparities. But ⁓ as the leader of the function that really should and does, you know, manage that, it's really important to me. And so I am, we use a lot of tools and, and of course data. to talk about that and then more importantly, to action it. So, and when I say it, I mean, you know, ensuring that we are paying equitable salaries across levels and positions and in all demographics. I those things are all important. It all comes down to what you measure. have to, and you learn whatever kind of takeaways you learn from measuring that data, what actions are you going to take? And that's often where the discrepancy is. Lots of companies are, you know, doing the work. ⁓ of ensuring that they are capturing data and looking at pay data, but making changes to that is really where, know, what's the rubber meets the road, right? It's the actions that you have to take once you know it. can't unknow it, you know? Once you know of a discrepancy or an equity issue, it's your responsibility to fix it. Kelsey Willock (09:29) gets measured gets managed. Ami Graves (09:31) That's right, absolutely. And what doesn't, doesn't, right? Kelsey Willock (09:36) So I kind of want to transition into talking a little bit about today's challenges, particularly around benefits. Where do you think compensation and benefits break down most often today, whether it is pay equity, transparency, individuals understanding their total rewards, or something else? Ami Graves (09:54) Yeah, yeah, I, I'll speak from my experience and then a little bit of kind of from a market perspective. So I think it's less about, at least, you know, here in my space and field about equity. We do a lot of analysis on that. ⁓ and I'm very proud to say that when every time we look at that data, I feel really confident that we are, ⁓ not one of those companies that has equity issues. When we talk about demographics, women, minorities, ⁓ veterans, et cetera. ⁓ and all the other, you know, categories. So I, I'm proud of that. ⁓ fact, think that where the breakdown really happens is around, it's in between intention and understanding, which to me kind of the connector there is communication, right? So as an example, one of the things that we did, and you know, most companies do this, and we implemented this just a few years ago. And I've done this at previous employers as well as creating what's called a compensation and benefit statement. It's also called a pay statement or I've heard it called a bunch of different things. But these things are so valuable because oftentimes what happens is, you know, we roll out, we go through open enrollment, we tell you what your new premiums are going to cost. And all I see and know is what I feel in my paycheck, right? But if you have the entire, you know, kind of statement that really shows you your entire base compensation in and any incentive pay or base pay or bonus pay that you get as well. But what people don't really understand is the cost of their benefits. It's not free. And it's not just what you are paying out of your paycheck. Oftentimes, think the average company is generally paying somewhere between 70 and 85 % of the premiums. That's a significant amount of money. And so sometimes we just need to educate our employees better about the cost of benefits and the percent that you're paying versus the percent we're paying. And I think too, you we write these compensation policies as if we're all lawyers. And then we expect just the regular average human to be able to read them. That's not reading the lawyer language. So again, it's we've got to be better about just simplifying the language that we use to communicate how we determine pay, pay bands and compensation and starting pay and promotion pay and your benefits. mean, benefits is tough. There is a lot to it that the average person doesn't understand. And quite frankly, they don't want to understand it. They want to know what's it going to cost me? What's my coverage? Just give me the basics. But the more we can educate and provide the information and then like lead people to the water and it's up to them to drink, right? Kelsey Willock (12:48) Have you seen any types of examples where the company has instilled educational opportunities that have led to positive change? Ami Graves (12:59) Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the things that we do at Bell Tech Logix is we have what we call the illumination sessions. So these are sessions that we do them monthly. And if we have, you know, if we get real excited to have extra topics, we do more often than that, but we at least do them monthly. And we usually kind of have ⁓ kind of three tracks that we ⁓ educate within the illuminations kind of, you know, I guess foundation or framework. it's ⁓ what's happening in the market. What kind of, and then the second would be like soft skills and professional skills or maybe even some technical skills. And third is what's happening kind of internally at our company and with our customers and clients. So we use those tracks to talk about all kinds of different things. And one of those tracks, when we talk about skills, is focused on not just your technical skill and how to do your job, but like life skills, right? So money management, and we'll bring in partners for those sorts of conversations. ⁓ We also talk about a lot of subjects outside of that too, subjects that would fall under maybe more of a DEI type of a category. We've had sessions on kind of Pete the planner. I'm sure you've heard of that. So just like all kinds of different scenarios where you can educate employees. mean, employees are, times that have really shifted. they're looking less and less for that traditional wellness program. And they're really more looking for personalized benefit offerings. As an example, I mean, I've heard, we don't offer this at Beltec Logics, but I'm hearing a lot about particularly companies out on the West Coast that are offering lifestyle spending accounts. And these spending accounts are... I remember when I first heard of these I was like what in the world are we doing? What's what's a cup? Whatever you're coming to but the truth is I get it people want you know to be able to use money in their their spending account Their lifestyle spending account to go to the gym take their dog to the vet ⁓ Just various things that like for them is like is helping I think support their lifestyle and their work life, you know management I'm not a huge fan of work-life balance that term. But I think that those programs are becoming more and more popular. I think we are going to start seeing those in more of a mainstream. And we're going to see a lot more programs, I think, around supporting employees that are taking care of an older generation, ⁓ our parents. And so I think that we're going to see more and more of Kelsey Willock (15:30) And so much so it's about people's right to choose what they spend that benefit on. Because we all, whether we choose to have children or not, whether we have aging parents or not, whether that's our responsibility or not, there's this major trend. Right. ⁓ Ami Graves (15:35) Yeah, of course. That's right. Yeah, whether we want, you know, insurance for our pets, right? Yeah, we all have different, you know, think desires and needs and, you know, it's really tough as an employer because you want to offer everything, but there's always going to be something that's not in that offering that maybe misses somebody. So it's, you just have to constantly kind of recalibrate and talk to your employees and understand, you know, what their pain points are, and especially if it's affecting them at work and their productivity and their engagement and just their ⁓ work-life happiness. I think those things matter. Kelsey Willock (16:23) Have you enacted a change or a benefit or something else that you've seen helped really meaningfully impact individuals of the company, specifically one that you've prioritized? Ami Graves (16:34) Well, think, you know, in general, think wellness programs get a bad rep, to be honest, but I will say that every year, minus, you know, those lovely couple of years in the middle of COVID, we ⁓ did an on-site biometric screening. And we've been doing this as companies for many years. And there's always those years that... It all goes real smooth, but then there's those times when somebody finds out something that they did not realize. Very high cholesterol, a very high blood pressure. I think that, and sometimes those things go undiagnosed because people think that their symptoms are related to stress or something else, which of course they could be, but they could be a sign that something is medically wrong. And catching those types of things sooner rather than later, ⁓ It really can mean, I mean, I'm not trying to be dramatic. I'm just being real. can be life or death, right? And so I think that we, I have seen those types of, ⁓ I think investments and programs be successful and very impactful, particularly to kind of a small number of employees, but every single person that it supports and helps matters. So if it's just helping one person identify an issue with their health that they can, you know, catch early on. and hopefully work towards fixing that, then it's a great program, right? Kelsey Willock (17:59) I actually ended up doing a similar program like that with my husband and his company. And it was just, I remember feeling so, especially even as a spouse, so validated that the company was offering something like that. Because even if they don't find anything, the peace of mind itself is so valuable. It's worth it. Right. Ami Graves (18:10) Mm-hmm. ⁓ it's worth it. It's absolutely worth it. And the fact that like you're doing, you know, not to make excuses, we all need to be making time for our health, financial health, know, physical health, mental health, all those things. But there's something about an onsite, you know, an onsite program like that, that just is brought to you. You can't make an excuse that I just don't want to make the appointment. and three weeks go to the doctor when I don't know what I'll be doing in three weeks. Here, it's right there. You know, it's easy to do and we just have to prioritize it. Kelsey Willock (18:51) In beginning of our conversation, you'd mentioned data is really important to you. And I think that a change like you're an example, like you're giving is so obvious when hearing it, right? The people see the value, we caught certain health risks, for example. Going a bit deeper though, how does the company measure an impact beyond that? Is it engagement? Is it retention? Are you thinking about it differently than that? Ami Graves (19:17) Are you asking in relation to wellness or just ⁓ data in general? Kelsey Willock (19:24) in relation to well-being. Ami Graves (19:27) Yeah, I listen, I think whatever kind of ⁓ information that you would be looking for out on the Internet about the effectiveness of wellness programs, you can find it. If you want support that they're not beneficial, you can find an article out there about that. If you want that they're the greatest thing ever, you can find articles about that too. And here's my personal thought on it. Is it moving the needle for impacting our health care costs as a company? No. It's not. Does that mean we shouldn't do it? Absolutely not. mean, we care about our employees. That's why we're in this space, right? mean, in HR ⁓ and, certainly I think the companies that are investing in these types of programs understand that there may or may not be a return on investment. Does it matter though, if it's helping your employees? Give them peace of mind, like you mentioned, if it's helping them diagnose something that they didn't know they had. Those things are impacting our people, our employees, our coworkers and peers. How do you measure that? For me, it's less about measuring the ROI on the spend and it's more about just the impact on the people. Kelsey Willock (20:39) I couldn't love that answer more, by the way. Ami Graves (20:41) good, well that's the truth. Kelsey Willock (20:44) What compensation and benefits trends do you think will shape the employee experience most over the next year? Ami Graves (20:50) I think we're gonna see, I'm already starting to see this, an interesting shift around up-skilling and paying for skills versus degrees. Not that degrees won't be important in some fields, let's be clear. Nobody's gonna go to a surgeon that hasn't gotten their education. But I think in a lot of corporate jobs, we're gonna see a shift there. where the focus is on the skill and I would say the cultural add to the company versus where did you get your degree and what was your GPA? I think that, I mean, if I'm being honest, I haven't looked at a GPA on a resume or even on a background check in 20 years and I quite frankly don't care. And I hope nobody would look at mine. You know, because, you know. My priorities at 21 were a little different than they are right now. So I think that we're going to see a shift there. We're just going to continue to see, think, compensation pressures for sure. And I think that we've got to be paying a lot of attention to that because we're going to upskill our teams. And the talk around AI is a great example of this. I hear and say often, AI is not going to replace HR, but HR people that don't have AI skills will be replaced with HR people that do. So whether you think you need to have those skills or not, do. So I think that, you know, we're going to see a lot of pressures around compensation, particularly internal moves, right? We want to keep our people. And we know how this works, right? I can go somewhere else and make X number percent more than I could if you promoted me internally. Why is that? Can we make a shift there and do that a little differently? I think we can and I think we're going to have to as we continue to focus on skill development and less on kind of more formal education. Kelsey Willock (22:50) You had mentioned AI tools. Can you leave us with one or two tools that you're using today that you think the listeners should be aware of? Ami Graves (22:59) Well, I think everybody already is, but if they're not, my gosh, I use Copilot and ChatGPT daily, all day long. These are, I think of them as like my assistant, you know? I don't have an assistant, but if I did, it would be, and I've even named my ChatGPT tool Chappy. It's kind of a running joke, you know, I'm like, hey, I, ⁓ I checked in with Chappie and you know, this is what I learned today. These tools are easy to use. They're so beneficial. They're not perfect. They like to tell you what they think you want to hear. So you do have to push back and kind of build your own voice within the tool. But the more it learns and understands you, the more accurate it can be. Always, of course, check the data. If it's giving you a stat, make sure you're double checking that because again, it can be wrong. sometimes, but I will tell you the benefit, I mean, very much outweighs any kind of challenges that I've had with these tools. I mean, I'm telling you the most basic tools ever that I use, but I mean, certainly there's so many tools on the market. I think every day there's a new tool, several new tools coming out, but just for the kinds of things that an easy, and you don't have to have, you don't have to be in some large enterprise organization. to use these kind of tools. You can use these tools at any size of a company, any kind of a company, even if it's just you, running your own solo business, maybe that's when you need it the most. Very, very beneficial. Strongly encourage everyone to just start playing with it and have a little fun, learn something along the Kelsey Willock (24:34) Continue to be curious. Ami Graves (24:35) That's right. Kelsey Willock (24:38) Last words of wisdom. What is one 30-day experiment that our listeners could try to boost financial well-being or even engagement with their companies? Ami Graves (24:46) Hmm Okay, you know I am gonna say something that I when I saw this question this didn't even cross my mind, but I'm Reading slash listening to a book right now Called the five-second rule by Mel Robbins. I already read her book left in theory It's amazing, but I'm in this five-second rule and I would say this 30-day sprint of any kind should be related to this five second rule. you could spend 30 days using the five second rule in various aspects of your life, I think it would be a game changer. Now, if you don't know what the five second rule is, Google it or better yet, get the audio book or read the book because it's really, really good. And Mel Robbins is fascinating and she's just so real and raw and I love her style. But that's what I would say. check out the five second rule and then apply it for 30 days. And I would be shocked if somebody said that they didn't see a shift in how they operate, their motivation. You'll feel kind of reinvigorated. It's an interesting concept. Kelsey Willock (25:54) As someone that grew up in the Midwest in freezing cold temperatures, I used the five second rule to get out of bed in the mornings when it was cold and I didn't want to. Ami Graves (26:00) That was her? Yes. Yes. No, I'll see that you're spot on. And in fact, that's one of the biggest examples that she uses. Of course, there's a lot of context to it that makes the story very interesting, but that's exactly how she started using it. And it was a game changer. And it's so funny how a very small concept like that can make you say, why didn't I think of that? Or why didn't I already apply that? Sometimes again, we like to over complicate things and sometimes it's just something so simple that can make a massive amount of change. Kelsey Willock (26:36) It's so easy to do as well. So thank you so much for sharing that. Amy, it has been such a phenomenal conversation. A few of the takeaways that I had from our conversation that I loved and kind of want to reiterate is that ROI isn't always quantifiable by numbers. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Examples like a full body scan to help our team doesn't make it not invaluable if it doesn't impact the cost of health care. Ami Graves (26:40) Yeah. Yeah, my pleasure. That's right. That's right. Kelsey Willock (27:03) And then also I loved your thoughts on how we're seeing a shift, particularly over the next year, around paying for skills over paying for degrees, as well as compensation pressers. And so leave us off that five second rule. I hope everyone can take that away from this conversation and start using it this week. Amy, you can share with our listeners what's a way that they can connect with you beyond this conversation. Ami Graves (27:19) Me too. that'd be great. Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, just like everybody else, Amy graves. That's a mi g r a v s you can find me on LinkedIn. I also run a podcast called the people of work right behind me. And you can find me online at Amy Joe graves.com. Am I j o graves.com Kelsey Willock (27:46) Well, thank you so much, Amy. It's been a fabulous conversation. I know it's a busy time of the year, so I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and thank you so much again. Ami Graves (27:52) Thank you.