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Why the environment is MIA in this election · Inside Politics

0:01
S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
0:03
S1: This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Tuesday, April 29th.
0:11
S1: Salmon farming is not something most voters consider when they
0:14
S1: go to the polls on Election Day. But for Tasmanian voters,
0:17
S1: it is a huge and often divisive issue. Some Tasmanians
0:22
S1: believe the industry is polluting and unsustainable. Others see it
0:26
S1: as vital local commerce, which is keeping many rural Tasmanians employed.
0:31
S1: This debate about the environmental effects of salmon farming is
0:34
S1: playing out in an election where any other discussion of
0:36
S1: the environment is pretty much non-existent. Which is curious because
0:40
S1: energy policy goes hand in hand with the environment. And
0:43
S1: that is a decisive topic of this election. And it
0:46
S1: is also curious that the federal Environment minister, Tanya Plibersek,
0:50
S1: has been very quiet during this campaign. So to get
0:55
S1: us into all of this, we are going to talk
0:57
S1: to national and environment climate reporter Bianca Hall and energy
1:01
S1: correspondent Mike Foley. Welcome, guys.
1:03
S2: Hi, Jackie.
1:04
S3: Hi. Good to be here.
1:05
S1: Bianca, you've just been in Tasmania on a tour of
1:08
S1: the important electorates there. Can you tell us why these
1:11
S1: Tasmanian seats are so pivotal for this election?
1:14
S3: Sure. Well, I think Tasmanians would probably be forgiven for
1:17
S3: feeling like they get a bit forgotten during election campaigns
1:21
S3: and more broadly. But there's five seats in Tasmania and
1:24
S3: two depending on who you ask. Three are very much
1:27
S3: in play this election. So we've got bass in the
1:31
S3: north east corner of the state, Braddon along the west coast,
1:34
S3: Franklin on the southern tip, Clark, which covers Hobart and Lyons,
1:38
S3: which covers the centre of the state and the east coast.
1:41
S3: And two of these seats are pretty nominally safe. You've
1:44
S3: got Franklin, which is held by Fisheries Minister Julie Collins
1:48
S3: on 13.7%. Andrew Wilkie, The Independent, holds Clark with a
1:53
S3: commanding 20.8% margin, but two of them are ultra marginal
1:58
S3: and really in play. So Lyons is held by labor
2:00
S3: on just 0.9%, and Bridget Archer for the liberals holds
2:05
S3: bass on 1.4%. Even though Braddon is on 8% held
2:10
S3: by a Liberal MP, Gavin Pearce, who's retiring, labor absolutely
2:14
S3: thinks it's in with a shot in Braddon as well.
2:17
S1: Okay, so some of these seats have very slim margins
2:20
S1: and salmon farming has become a very central election issue
2:23
S1: in Tasmania. Can you tell us why it's getting so
2:26
S1: much attention?
2:27
S3: Well, I think the big thing obviously is the mortgage
2:29
S3: and skate. This is the prehistoric creature that is endangered,
2:34
S3: and it only occurs in waters where salmon farming is
2:38
S3: occurring around Macquarie Harbour.
2:40
S4: The number of Morgan skate in Macquarie Harbour halved in
2:44
S4: just seven years.
2:46
S3: But there was a mass mortality event in summer this
2:49
S3: year that killed more than 1 million fish in the
2:51
S3: salmon farms. That was probably the thing that got most
2:54
S3: people's attention. Yeah, there was some pretty arresting footage of
2:58
S3: huge amounts of salmon dead inside the pens, which were
3:01
S3: taken by drone footage.
3:02
S4: Live salmon being siphoned out of a pen and sealed
3:05
S4: away with dead salmon. It's a vision that's alarmed the
3:08
S4: RSPCA and now the animal welfare charity.
3:11
S3: And there was also the pretty revolting prospect of chunks
3:14
S3: of salmon washing up on beaches surrounding the pens. People
3:18
S3: walking their dogs and coming across enormous chunks of salmon. Pretty, um, yeah,
3:22
S3: pretty gross stuff.
3:23
S5: From oily chunks washing up on this very beach after
3:27
S5: an unprecedented mass salmon die off event.
3:30
S1: But, Mike, even before the sort of mass extinction event
3:33
S1: that we had, basically, there's a lot of people who
3:35
S1: think salmon farming is dirty and polluting the waters and
3:39
S1: that it's sort of almost like a battery hen type situation.
3:42
S1: Tell us a bit about the industry more generally.
3:45
S2: Well, the concerns with the industry around its environmental impact, Jackie,
3:51
S2: are about and Bianca will add to this, I'm sure,
3:54
S2: but it's about the impact that salmon, let's call it
3:57
S2: waste from the fish that they get fed. Fish food
4:02
S2: there they they eat that, they expel it. And that
4:04
S2: adds nutrients to the environment and especially into that one
4:08
S2: location of Macquarie Harbour. That nutrient imbalance is creating algal
4:13
S2: growth and an imbalance in the ecosystem that sucks oxygen
4:16
S2: out of the water, basically. And that's one impact that
4:20
S2: makes it harder for the Morgan skate to survive, makes
4:24
S2: it harder for them to breed as well. This is
4:26
S2: in very simple terms, and as Bianca rightly pointed out,
4:30
S2: it's so rare it's classed as critically endangered. Top red
4:34
S2: level alert of dropping off the face of the planet,
4:37
S2: that there's this open question about whether this practice in
4:41
S2: that one confined harbour can continue, or if the risk
4:44
S2: is so great that it's too much of a threat
4:47
S2: to the future survival of this prehistoric creature that occurs
4:50
S2: nowhere else in the world. More broadly than that, though,
4:54
S2: there is the same concerns, but spread out all across
4:57
S2: the let's call it an industrial precinct. I mean, is
5:00
S2: that an okay term to use, Bianca, where there's farming
5:03
S2: up and down the coast of Tassie as well, and
5:06
S2: there's similar issues about water degradation, let's call it around
5:09
S2: the salmon farms in the ocean environment as well, around
5:12
S2: the coast.
5:13
S3: Yeah, I'd absolutely agree with the industrial descriptor. You know,
5:17
S3: going past these places on boats and we're on two boats.
5:19
S3: One of them was an enormous commercial cruise that went
5:23
S3: through Macquarie Harbour and up the Gordon River. But we
5:26
S3: also went on a smaller boat on the East coast
5:28
S3: and went pretty close to the pens. And they are enormous.
5:31
S3: They measure up to 240m in circumference. They're huge things
5:36
S3: and they go down about 20m underneath the surface of
5:39
S3: the water, so they're pretty tightly packed in there as
5:42
S3: they get bigger. Apparently you can get about 10,000 adult fish.
5:46
S3: I just say one thing. Just you're talking about the
5:49
S3: marine environment in Macquarie Harbour. Mike, it's really interesting because
5:53
S3: you've got the river water on top in Macquarie Harbour
5:56
S3: and then the saltwater underneath. And so the river water
5:59
S3: is really quite dense when you're on a boat and
6:01
S3: you're going through Macquarie Harbour, it looks like you're going
6:04
S3: through black tea. There's not a lot of oxygen in
6:07
S3: the top layer of the water, so it's actually more
6:10
S3: prone to a low oxygenation rates than normal ocean water.
6:15
S3: And every couple of years they get a big sort
6:19
S3: of swell of ocean water coming through underneath that oxygenates
6:23
S3: that marine environment. But in recent years they've been not
6:27
S3: having that kind of effect. So there is a trial
6:29
S3: underway of $37.5 million, Reoxygenation trial where the the federal
6:35
S3: government has, um, got essentially barges that are pumping oxygen
6:40
S3: into the marine environment trying to create that effect that
6:43
S3: the saltwater flows have.
6:45
S4: The emoji and skate is only found in Macquarie Harbour
6:48
S4: on Tasmania's west coast. The state and federal governments are
6:52
S4: funding a captive breeding program in an effort to save
6:55
S4: the endangered species.
6:57
S1: Yeah, I want to talk about the upside of the
6:59
S1: industry as well. I mean, we just want to add
7:02
S1: that in for balance. Obviously, there's a lot of concerns
7:04
S1: over its environmental effects, but it's a popular industry amongst
7:07
S1: some people in Tasmania because it's a job creator and
7:11
S1: it's good for the economy. Can you tell us a
7:13
S1: little bit about that?
7:14
S3: Yeah, I mean, the industry is valued at about $1.37
7:17
S3: billion a year. It's a big money earner. It also employs,
7:20
S3: depending on who you ask, between 1700 and 5000 people
7:24
S3: in Tasmania in full time and casual jobs, and some
7:29
S3: of them direct jobs, some of them indirect jobs. But yeah,
7:31
S3: Salmon Tasmania says that it employs about half the population.
7:35
S3: Working population in Strahan for example.
7:38
S1: Mhm. Okay. So there's basically a conflict between the environmental
7:41
S1: concerns and those who would rather overlook those concerns or
7:44
S1: dismiss them as less important than the job creation and
7:48
S1: the economic benefits of the industry. I mean, Anthony Albanese
7:51
S1: has very much come down on one side of this debate.
7:54
S6: Indeed, this industry is worth $1 billion. Very vital for Tasmania.
8:01
S6: Vital for Australia and vital for our national interest.
8:06
S1: We saw him, I think, in February. Go down to
8:08
S1: Tasmania and eat a salmon supper very, very obviously for
8:11
S1: the cameras. What was he sort of doing down there
8:14
S1: and where was he, Bianca?
8:15
S3: He was at a barbecue at Petuna Seafood in Devonport.
8:19
S3: You could say he was putting his money where his
8:21
S3: mouth was. He was alongside Senator Anne Urquhart, who is
8:25
S3: a labor senator for Tasmania, has three years left of
8:28
S3: her term and has been convinced to run for Braddon
8:32
S3: for labor, with the retiring MP Gavin Pearce stepping aside.
8:38
S3: So the Prime Minister was very clearly saying, you know,
8:42
S3: I'm here and Urquhart is here, and we fully back
8:45
S3: this industry and the workers and the union that represents them.
8:48
S1: Yeah. Okay. And then it was about a week after
8:50
S1: that visit to Britain that the mass salmon death occurred
8:52
S1: that you spoke about before. So it's always been or
8:55
S1: particularly recently been a very controversial, perhaps divisive issue locally
9:00
S1: in Tasmania. But more recently it leapt onto the national
9:03
S1: debate and we saw Senator Hanson-Young, Greens senator, bring a
9:08
S1: prop into the upper chamber. What did she do? Mike,
9:10
S1: it was a sort of pretty stinky stunt.
9:13
S2: Yeah, it was visually arresting. Let's say she brought she
9:16
S2: went to the local Costco in Canberra, picked up a
9:19
S2: whole gutted dead salmon. It was defrosted. She snuck it
9:24
S2: in to the chamber underneath some copies of The Age
9:28
S2: and Sydney Morning Herald print editions. Fantastic use of the product.
9:32
S1: What a what a great honor for us. Yeah, well,
9:34
S1: they always say that we're tomorrow's fish and chip wrapping paper. Right.
9:37
S1: So this is a slight.
9:38
S3: This is to prove that wasn't it.
9:40
S1: Yeah. It's a bit of a tweak.
9:42
S7: A rotten, stinking extinction. Salmon. Extinction. Salmon. Senator. Senator Hanson-Young.
9:51
S7: Remove the prop from the chamber.
9:53
S2: It was a piscatorial stunt, but it had a serious
9:56
S2: meaning for her and the opponents of a move that
10:00
S2: Anthony Albanese spearheaded. She was protesting the government's reform to
10:06
S2: environment law that was basically safeguarding the Macquarie Harbour salmon
10:12
S2: farming industry. It was it's very complicated and targeted, but
10:17
S2: it was essentially removing the right of third parties like
10:21
S2: environmental groups and so on, to challenge the approval that
10:26
S2: was given to the Macquarie Harbour farming operations. It's it is,
10:32
S2: as you can imagine, obscure. National environment law. And it's
10:36
S2: and there's a lot of conjecture over how nasty a
10:39
S2: reform that is for future cases, whether it might block
10:42
S2: challenges to coal mines, that that might be needed to
10:46
S2: be waged, and other people claim that it's just fixing
10:49
S2: up a loophole. If the the project has been approved
10:52
S2: in the past, why should it be open to incessant
10:55
S2: challenges in the future? A lot of debate over it,
10:57
S2: but Sarah Hanson-Young was making a point that she she
11:00
S2: vehemently disapproved of the move.
11:02
S1: Yeah. Where is environment Minister Tanya Plibersek in all of this?
11:06
S1: Have we seen her say anything about the salmon farming issue?
11:09
S2: Jackie, you told me she's been nowhere on it really,
11:11
S2: especially since this federal election campaign kicked off four weeks ago.
11:17
S2: She had a decision on her desk for many months
11:21
S2: over the future of those salmon farming operations in Macquarie Harbour,
11:25
S2: and she kicked the can down the road and extended
11:28
S2: the deadline, which is in her right to do. But
11:30
S2: she extended the deadline way out beyond the polling day
11:34
S2: in the federal election in a move to neutralise the issue.
11:38
S2: As she did, that Anthony Albanese essentially pre-empted her decision
11:42
S2: and said to the industry and to Tasmania, don't worry,
11:45
S2: I'm guaranteeing jobs in the industry. And since then, Tanya
11:49
S2: Plibersek hasn't really played a public role in advocating for
11:53
S2: or against the decision or the industry.
11:55
S1: Labor seems to be treading very softly, to say the least,
11:59
S1: on environmental issues in this election. Would you agree with that, Mike?
12:03
S2: I would, yes. Um, I, I think that Anthony Albanese
12:07
S2: has made a calculation about how to maximise his chances
12:12
S2: of picking up all the seats he wants to, and
12:15
S2: he's doing that by sidelining environmental issues and making controversial
12:20
S2: calls on those issues. Salmon farming is a case in point.
12:24
S2: The calculation he has made is that the voters he
12:27
S2: annoys by doing that have nowhere else to go in
12:31
S2: his mind except to the greens. And typically the greens
12:35
S2: preferences will flow back to labor. Voters might just suck
12:39
S2: up their disappointment and vote for labor anyway. Or thirdly,
12:42
S2: if they choose to vote for one of the rising
12:44
S2: number of independents, Albanese has done the numbers. And you
12:48
S2: better believe he gets the abacus out before elections himself
12:51
S2: and personally runs the numbers extremely carefully. And he's decided
12:54
S2: that those independents, in the number of seats that he's
12:57
S2: worried about won't affect Labor's chances of winning the election.
13:00
S2: So essentially, he's saying we need to champion the blue
13:04
S2: collar vote or the vote for people that are concerned
13:07
S2: about the economy, because we don't want people worried about jobs,
13:11
S2: cost of living and inflation and so on to be
13:15
S2: put offside by our more environmentally minded reforms.
13:18
S1: Yeah. What about Plibersek and Albanese's relationship more generally? There's
13:23
S1: been a lot of speculation about it. People have said
13:25
S1: that she's been sidelined, that the environment portfolio was a
13:28
S1: bit of a poisoned chalice to begin with. And then
13:30
S1: last year we saw Albanese sort of basically scuttle a
13:35
S1: key policy that Plibersek had been working on for quite
13:37
S1: some time. Can you tell us about that, Mike?
13:39
S2: So that was the promise that labor made in 2022
13:44
S2: to create a national environment watchdog known as the Environment
13:48
S2: Protection Agency or the EPA. So they made an election promise.
13:53
S2: Tanya Plibersek, it's fair to say, took three years to
13:57
S2: get that reform into parliament, really, by all accounts, dragged
14:01
S2: her heels a lot to get it in there almost
14:03
S2: at the last minute before the election was set to
14:06
S2: be called, she indicated that she had a deal with
14:09
S2: the Greens to get the necessary votes to to create
14:12
S2: the EPA in the Senate. And as we were talking
14:15
S2: about before, Anthony Albanese was concerned about that being a
14:18
S2: bad look to some voters in the upcoming election. So
14:22
S2: labor siding with the Greens, um, to put more regulations
14:26
S2: on industry. So he reached out across Tanya Plibersek, let's say,
14:30
S2: and scuttled the deal with the Greens. It's correct to
14:35
S2: say he went around Tanya Plibersek when doing that.
14:38
S1: Yep. Captain's call went over our head.
14:40
S6: David.
14:41
S8: Shouldn't you have told your minister, Tanya Plibersek this was
14:44
S8: not going to happen before you told the Greens?
14:46
S6: We did.
14:47
S8: You told Tanya Plibersek before telling the Greens. We there
14:50
S8: was no deal.
14:51
S6: We informed all of our ministers, were informed the whole
14:54
S6: way through about how things were.
14:56
S1: We also saw this very sort of awkward looking interaction
15:00
S1: between the two at the Labor Party campaign launch. It
15:03
S1: was a sort of missed axis type situation, and a
15:05
S1: little bit of fun was had with it. What did
15:07
S1: you make of that, Mike? Was that was that a
15:09
S1: media beat up, or was that a sort of accurate
15:11
S1: reflection of how awkward and frosty their relationship is?
15:14
S2: It's one of those magic moments where the pictures, um,
15:17
S2: really tell the the story that's going on behind the scenes.
15:21
S2: It was that personal relationship and the visceral reaction they
15:24
S2: had of the awkwardness of the whole situation, because Tanya
15:28
S2: Plibersek and Anthony Albanese are stars of the New South
15:31
S2: Wales Labor Party in the left wing faction, and they're
15:34
S2: both rivals. You've got charismatic, photogenic Tanya Plibersek, who is
15:40
S2: popular among Labor Party faithful, let alone the entire electorate.
15:43
S2: Anthony Albanese has worked his way up and done the
15:45
S2: hard yards to become leader, and he sees Plibersek as
15:49
S2: as a rival to his leadership, even though they could
15:52
S2: by all intents and purposes be allies and support each other.
15:55
S2: But he's nervous about her leadership potential, so there was
15:57
S2: a bit of that early pullback, nervous moment when they
16:01
S2: went to meet each other in the middle of this
16:02
S2: election campaign. And it came just a day or two
16:06
S2: after Anthony Albanese had once again stomped all over Tanya
16:11
S2: Plibersek s turf without a mention of her. He was
16:13
S2: up at the Great Barrier Reef in the middle of
16:15
S2: the election campaign, highlighting Labor's great work on climate action
16:19
S2: and reducing emissions to save the Great Barrier Reef. And
16:24
S2: his factional ally, let's call it in ironic terms, Tanya
16:27
S2: Plibersek was nowhere to be seen. Didn't get her mug
16:30
S2: on the cameras and that's no mistake.
16:31
S1: Yeah, I love how even amongst all the artifice of politics,
16:35
S1: the body language just doesn't lie in those moments. I
16:38
S1: want to ask you both reflecting on the last three years.
16:40
S1: It seems like, as we've discussed, Albanese has blocked some
16:43
S1: or a few significant attempts at reform from Tanya Plibersek,
16:47
S1: the environment ministers, and those reforms have been promised to voters.
16:51
S1: So I just want to ask whether you think labor
16:54
S1: has fulfilled its promises on the environment and whether it's
17:00
S1: basically got a good report card on environmental issues. What
17:03
S1: do you think, Mike?
17:04
S2: I think it's fair to say they haven't delivered on
17:06
S2: their promises. So run through it really briefly. They guaranteed
17:10
S2: in the 2022 election campaign that they'd create that EPA
17:13
S2: that we were talking about. The national environment watchdog hasn't
17:16
S2: been done. They also said that they would work on
17:19
S2: reforming national environment laws, sort of indicating that they were
17:24
S2: hoping to deliver that in Parliament, and there's no evidence
17:28
S2: of what work they've done other than consult with industry
17:31
S2: and become scared of the mining industry on that. And
17:35
S2: there hasn't been much progress outside of that. On actual
17:38
S2: environmental reform, we're.
17:40
S9: Talking not just about the creation of a new environment
17:43
S9: protection agency, but a quite fundamental rewriting of our environment laws.
17:50
S9: We want to see stronger environmental protections, but also faster,
17:54
S9: clearer decision making. And that's the path we've embarked on.
17:57
S2: Well, to be fair, it has to be said that
17:59
S2: Labour has done a lot of work on emissions reduction
18:03
S2: and setting climate targets and getting in place reforms in
18:07
S2: the energy grid to switch fossil fuels for renewables. And
18:12
S2: there's conjecture over how much progress they're making, to be sure,
18:16
S2: but they are making progress there. So it's a mixed
18:19
S2: bag across that spectrum, in my opinion, but they haven't
18:22
S2: delivered what they said they would. On environmental reform.
18:25
S3: Yeah, I mean, I'd say that they've done some pretty
18:27
S3: solid work on reducing emissions. That's been a big factor
18:30
S3: and a big focus of this first term. But I
18:33
S3: think you'd have to say that, you know, Anthony Albanese
18:36
S3: came to power promising to strengthen environmental laws and is
18:40
S3: on the day before calling the election, he's actually significantly
18:43
S3: reduced them or weakened them. Yeah.
18:47
S1: And what do you think is going to happen in
18:48
S1: those Tasmanian seats?
18:49
S3: Guys, I think the electorates in Tasmania are interesting. I mean,
18:53
S3: one electorate I didn't really speak about is Franklin, which
18:57
S3: although it's on a pretty solid margin of 13.7% with
19:01
S3: Julie Collins, the fisheries Minister. Um, we have an anti
19:04
S3: salmon candidate who's solidly backed by the Greens. One of
19:08
S3: the leaders of his campaign is Paul Thomas, who happens
19:12
S3: to be married to Bob Brown. It's a well-resourced campaign
19:16
S3: backed by $30,000 in climate, 200 money. They actually think
19:20
S3: they're in with a bit of a shot in that seat,
19:22
S3: but in Tasmania they have a pretty solid tradition of
19:25
S3: voting below the line and numbering every single box. And
19:30
S3: that's obviously influenced by the fact that they have a
19:32
S3: hare-clark voting system in state elections. But they also do
19:36
S3: it in the Senate. And, you know, who did you
19:38
S3: put number 58in the Senate? You know, it's a bit
19:40
S3: of a question. So I think, um, I think we
19:43
S3: could see the possibility of more independence across the country.
19:49
S3: And I think the green and the independent vote will
19:52
S3: probably go up in Tasmania.
19:53
S2: How do you think it's going to shake out in
19:55
S2: Braddon with with Macquarie Harbour in that seat?
19:58
S3: I think labor is going to get within striking distance
20:01
S3: of Braddon. Wow. They internally and also people in the
20:05
S3: Greens as well, think the 8%, uh, margin that the
20:10
S3: liberals hold that seat on. And remember Gavin Pearce is
20:13
S3: retiring is a bit of a freak result. They think
20:17
S3: and I think their internal polling is showing. It's pretty close.
20:20
S1: There you go. The salmon industry will thank them if
20:23
S1: they win. Braddon.
20:24
S3: Absolutely.
20:25
S1: Listen, guys, that was absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much.
20:28
S1: I love doing these deep dives. And Tasmania is such
20:30
S1: a fascinating electorate with so many sort of different issues
20:33
S1: going on. Wonderful place to visit. I really appreciate you
20:37
S1: guys joining me today.
20:38
S3: Thank you so much for having us.
20:39
S2: Thanks, jacki.
20:42
S1: Today's episode was produced by Julia Katzel with technical assistance
20:46
S1: from Cormac Lally. Our executive producer is Tami Mills, and
20:49
S1: Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to
20:52
S1: our episodes as soon as they drop, follow Inside Politics
20:55
S1: on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen to your podcasts.
20:59
S1: To stay up to date with all the election coverage
21:01
S1: and exclusives, visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites.
21:05
S1: To support our journalism, subscribe to us via Visiting The
21:09
S1: Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe. I'm Jacqueline Maley, thank you for listening.