Latest / Constellations and all that... / 64. Family Constellations, Generational Healing, and Self-Love with Chayanika Bhiwaniwala

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64. Family Constellations, Generational Healing, and Self-Love with Chayanika Bhiwaniwala · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy Cartwright: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy Cartwright: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Welcome everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Today I have the pleasure of chatting with my colleague, Sheika, all the way from India.
• 0:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Ki how are you doing?
• 0:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'm great and namaste to everybody.
• 0:49
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'm really excited and so grateful to you for inviting me for your PO podcast, and I really hope that, uh, today's podcast is like, uh, like something to take away for people, for me, for you, for everybody.
• 1:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I just actually leave it to the field to guide us and maybe those words come out from my mouth, which needs.
• 1:13
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: To come out for people.
• 1:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 1:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 1:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Would you like to introduce yourself?
• 1:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, so, you know, on some podcasts, people, people go through a whole list of, of people's credentials, and I like to invite people to share a little bit about who they are for the listeners and the viewers.
• 1:30
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, so, uh, nothing much about me, but it's just that I'm very passionate about alternative therapies and, uh, since 2007 I've been, uh, learning and updating myself.
• 1:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: My journey began with clinical hypnotherapy, and then there was no turning back.
• 1:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And looking back, I did a lot of other modalities and still do because of learning and education is just like an ocean.
• 1:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The more you dive, the more hungry you are to learn more.
• 2:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I did Constellations, inner child work, transpersonal regression, sound therapy, access bars, actually quite a few of them.
• 2:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I'm also an, um, international trainer for Heal Your Life, designed by Louise.
• 2:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And now what I do, I integrate everything.
• 2:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Whatever the client needs or whatever is required that point of time.
• 2:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I think all the modalities are beautiful, but the modality, which actually touches my heart.
• 2:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Is Constellation and transpersonal regression therapy.
• 2:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I would give, give more credit to Constellation because here you just watch.
• 2:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You just observe and things happen and the field reveals the hidden dynamics, which which is not possible for you to reveal on your own.
• 2:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So that is why I give more credit to Constellation.
• 2:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Brilliant, brilliant.
• 2:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you explain what is.
• 3:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Would you say trans
• 3:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: personal, trans personal regression therapy?
• 3:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 3:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So this therapy is about, uh, taking your mind.
• 3:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: To that point in time, across time, across space from wherever the issues started.
• 3:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And it's possible and it's a like a light trans state, so your mind can take you to childhood time or the time when you were in your mother's womb, or life between life or past life.
• 3:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I just leave it for the client and also ask the client to just leave the mind open, to take them wherever the mind needs to go for healing to happen.
• 3:40
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And it is like, like trans state.
• 3:42
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So the subconscious is exist, but again, it is the client versus the client.
• 3:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It is you versus you.
• 3:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You vis-a-vis you, your personality across lifetimes.
• 3:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So whatever the client knows, that is what comes out more subconsciously, unconsciously.
• 3:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And
• 4:00
  Tracy Cartwright: that would meld quite well with constellations, wouldn't it?
• 4:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yes, I do blend both of them.
• 4:07
  Tracy Cartwright: I
• 4:07
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: do
• 4:07
  Tracy Cartwright: that, yeah.
• 4:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 4:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 4:09
  Tracy Cartwright: So I asked the question, how did Constellations meet you?
• 4:12
  Tracy Cartwright: That's usually how I ask it because I kind of feel, I feel that Constellations finds us.
• 4:17
  Tracy Cartwright: It's, it's got its own energy, hasn't it?
• 4:19
  Tracy Cartwright: So how did Constellations find you?
• 4:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That's a very interesting question.
• 4:24
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So when I was learning the modalities, like um, clinical hypnotherapy and transpersonal regression and all that, there were two trainers, Mr. Yuval and Morgan.
• 4:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mr. Yuval is no more.
• 4:38
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: They chanced.
• 4:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: To come to Kohl Kata and they did the training at my center in K Kata, which is called Self and Beyond.
• 4:47
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that was when I learned this modality because it was happening at my psychotherapy wellbeing center.
• 4:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And uh, when I did it, oh, my mind was just blown away.
• 4:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And all the things which I didn't even knew that point of time existed in me as issues started coming out, the field started revealing it.
• 5:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, and my life actually started turning 360 degrees and that too many times over.
• 5:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wow.
• 5:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I can't even explain what a person I was and who I have become now.
• 5:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: All thanks to Constellation work
• 5:24
  Tracy Cartwright: taste.
• 5:25
  Tracy Cartwright: So what
• 5:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: other modalities also, but Constellation work is very close to math.
• 5:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes, definitely has, uh, has the ability to change your life, do a 360 of what you're saying?
• 5:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Many multiple, three sixties.
• 5:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 5:38
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yes.
• 5:39
  Tracy Cartwright: How did, when you were meeting people and you are describing constellations, how did you, how would you describe it to someone like for the first time you are meeting somewhere?
• 5:50
  Tracy Cartwright: They say, what do you do?
• 5:51
  Tracy Cartwright: They say,
• 5:52
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: there are various ways of describing it, but how I describe it is I say, this is a very powerful three dimensional transgenerational modality, which has the power to change generations of sufferings.
• 6:09
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Into happiness, binding to bonding and entanglement to connections.
• 6:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So, and because a lot of hidden dynamics of the family system is revealed, and when the hidden dynamics of the system comes into your conscious awareness, it is then that you can choose to come out of it until the.
• 6:30
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Unconscious does not come to the conscious.
• 6:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It repeats in your life and you called it, call it fate.
• 6:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That is what Carl Jung says.
• 6:38
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So whatever is there in the subconscious and unconscious starts coming into your conscious and then you can choose to come out of it because family is destiny.
• 6:51
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But you can choose not to stay helplessly in your patterns and in your challenges, but consciously make a decision to come out of it.
• 7:00
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that can only be done when you become aware about your hidden dynamics.
• 7:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, I love that definition.
• 7:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Sign me up.
• 7:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Sometimes someone says it, they share it, and it's just in the way they share it.
• 7:11
  Tracy Cartwright: It's like, yeah, that, that feels really resonant.
• 7:15
  Tracy Cartwright: It's beautiful.
• 7:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, and that's why I asked that question because
• 7:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah,
• 7:18
  Tracy Cartwright: because there are so many different ways to describe this.
• 7:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Absolutely.
• 7:22
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm just saying we all have our own language around it, so it's, it's, yeah.
• 7:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And there's no other modality which can reveal hidden dynamics the way the constellations does.
• 7:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm, yeah.
• 7:34
  Tracy Cartwright: That's true.
• 7:35
  Tracy Cartwright: So you shared with me before we started recording that constellations is starting to, to take, um, become popular in India.
• 7:44
  Tracy Cartwright: How long would you say it's been going?
• 7:45
  Tracy Cartwright: It's been alive in India.
• 7:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So when I did, I did Constellation in 2014.
• 7:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That point of time I was the second batch.
• 7:56
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Of the trainers who taught us and nobody else, uh, had done it as yet that point of time.
• 8:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And in my city, we were the first batch to do it.
• 8:08
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But now there are more trainers coming from.
• 8:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, outside India and also there are trainers in India who started teaching it.
• 8:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 8:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So, uh, it is gaining popularity and I do get clients who want to come to me only for Constellation work.
• 8:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I remember until a few years back when I would talk about Constellation, all that was like Latin and Greek to them, they would not understand anything.
• 8:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 8:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: What is she talking about?
• 8:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, she's gonna gimme an astrology reading no
• 8:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: late.
• 8:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Brilliant.
• 8:47
  Tracy Cartwright: And there's quite a bit of history in India too, so I guess there's, you know, with, um, do you see much in the way of.
• 8:54
  Tracy Cartwright: The colonization, the, um, that come up in your history with clients?
• 8:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: They do, and this, I actually learned during my visits to Portugal and, uh, very recently Mexico when I watched, uh, the more senior.
• 9:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Constellations do it.
• 9:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Anguin like, you know how she talks about history matters, and I learned from there how to bring it to my constellation work.
• 9:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And nowadays I do bring the history of India also into constellation work and it really goes very deep.
• 9:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah, isn't it?
• 9:31
  Tracy Cartwright: I remember in my training, my first training, my teacher said to me, it's really important for you to know history.
• 9:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Absolutely.
• 9:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 9:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, over the years it, it's so, but I also have been lucky that there's always been someone that can put some light onto stuff whenever we're having a workshop or something.
• 9:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Have you seen.
• 9:54
  Tracy Cartwright: The ripple effects of this within your family system, from things that you've done, what have you noticed within your own family system?
• 10:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Okay.
• 10:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That's a very interesting question and a deep question for me because, uh, it's like opening up the Pandora box when you talk about my family system.
• 10:09
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 10:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, one of the constellation, which really ran very deep and which touched me, uh, long time back when I was learning constellations.
• 10:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That time we would practice on each other.
• 10:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Also, what came out was, uh, I was very disconnected from my emotions.
• 10:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And my own constellation was happening.
• 10:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: People from my family were representing in it and they could feel intense emotions.
• 10:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I, as the client, I couldn't feel any emotions.
• 10:41
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And it was a very intense constellation.
• 10:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Even people who were observing, who were representing, everybody started.
• 10:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, becoming theory and they felt very emotional.
• 10:52
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I'm just wondering why are they emotional?
• 10:54
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And again, it's my constellation, so why are they becoming emotional, you know?
• 10:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But then that was a turning point that Constellation was a turning point.
• 11:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: In my life, I never knew the importance of feeling the emotions.
• 11:08
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And after that constellation, I started connecting to my emotions.
• 11:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I started feeling my emotions, and I, I never knew that emotions actually carried so much wisdom.
• 11:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And each emotion was just a label, but it was also carrying a very important message for me to understand why is that emotion coming to me?
• 11:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It is not good or bad.
• 11:30
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It is just an emotion, and I have to experience it.
• 11:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I have to feel it.
• 11:35
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I have to process it.
• 11:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Get the message and then release it.
• 11:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I started understanding the, uh, importance of all this, which has really, uh, brought a lot of changes in a good way in my life.
• 11:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 11:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And also around the, uh, members of my family, because when I started feeling emotions, I could understand their emotions also better.
• 11:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 12:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Wonderful.
• 12:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 12:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wonderful.
• 12:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I could connect to them better.
• 12:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 12:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Before that maybe the connection was happening, but it was more at a superficial level.
• 12:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But then after that, it was a heart to heart connection.
• 12:13
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I also realized how important it is to be authentic and genuine.
• 12:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And if you are angry, you are angry.
• 12:20
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And so what.
• 12:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You can change your behavior.
• 12:24
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That is up to you.
• 12:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But feeling an emotion, it's okay.
• 12:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Emotions, no matter, whatever the emotion is, it is beautiful.
• 12:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 12:33
  Tracy Cartwright: And it's there to show us something, right?
• 12:34
  Tracy Cartwright: That that emotion is, is trying to talk to us.
• 12:37
  Tracy Cartwright: It's like,
• 12:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yes,
• 12:38
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah, you are angry or you are your sad, or whatever's going on simply.
• 12:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 12:45
  Tracy Cartwright: I see you've got a whole library behind you.
• 12:48
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm a bit like that too, but mine is scattered all around the place.
• 12:51
  Tracy Cartwright: But you've got a beautiful, um, selection of books in that there.
• 12:55
  Tracy Cartwright: So that leads me to the question of, um, do you have favorite facilitators, and if so, why?
• 13:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I've actually met Bert Hellinger also I, in 2014.
• 13:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: While, while I was learning Constellation, I had a small group in India and all of us decided, and he was old that time and we just wanted to get his blessings.
• 13:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And we went all the way from my city called Kata, India, uh, to Germany.
• 13:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 13:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: To meet him.
• 13:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, understand what kind of work he does.
• 13:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: We are practicing constellations.
• 13:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: We do constellations.
• 13:29
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But how about me, uh, meeting the person who's founded Constellation work and, uh.
• 13:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, and it was a very beautiful experience for me because I got the chance to get my constellation done out of so many hundreds of people on the stage, uh, uh, between sitting between Bert and Sophie.
• 13:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So both of them, they were there.
• 13:54
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: They just ask us to raise our hands, whoever wants to get Constellation done.
• 13:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And even from people who were raising their hands, some of them were just sent back because perhaps they were not ready for the constellation.
• 14:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And it's my good chance that I was selected and I was called upon the stage and I sat between both of them and I got my constellation done in Germany.
• 14:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 14:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 14:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that Constellation was also a turning point in my life.
• 14:22
  Tracy Cartwright: And at that point, had he, he had changed quite a bit.
• 14:26
  Tracy Cartwright: He was using more of the spirit mind, is that right?
• 14:29
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I wouldn't say that it was his order, which was just, I was just awe in awe of his order and the very energy that he was radiating.
• 14:42
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It was like doing something to me.
• 14:44
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And uh, he is like a person who understands without you even speaking anything about it.
• 14:49
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Looking at your body language.
• 14:51
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Maybe he can read mind, I don't know, but like whatever happened there is something which I can't even express in words.
• 14:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It's just an experience and whatever issue I had that point of time, it left me after that just one single constellation from him.
• 15:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Hmm.
• 15:09
  Tracy Cartwright: I've seen, and I've heard of experiences where people have just sat with him and he's, they've just looked at each other and then he said.
• 15:17
  Tracy Cartwright: We're done.
• 15:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And
• 15:18
  Tracy Cartwright: the other person goes,
• 15:20
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah.
• 15:21
  Tracy Cartwright: And no words have been expressed and no one's been on the field.
• 15:24
  Tracy Cartwright: It was, it was a complete, just a complete silent energy exchange.
• 15:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Movement.
• 15:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Whatever that was.
• 15:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Whatever that was.
• 15:31
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah,
• 15:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah.
• 15:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And my friends from India, they told me Janika.
• 15:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You've just got your money's worth.
• 15:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You've gotta get a constellation done from him.
• 15:41
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: What else do you want?
• 15:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Traveling all the way to Germany and staying and being there for a week for, I think we were there for 10 days and getting your constellation done.
• 15:52
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That that's really something, you know, they, they couldn't have dreamt of, I couldn't have dreamt of, and it happened for me.
• 15:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I really feel I'm very blessed and very graced in this.
• 16:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 16:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 16:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 16:07
  Tracy Cartwright: So, so that's Bert Hea.
• 16:09
  Tracy Cartwright: We'll put him aside.
• 16:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Apart from Bert hea, do you have, uh, another favorite or any other favorite facilitators?
• 16:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yes, UL and Morgan, my trainers, they are my favorite, uh, facilitators.
• 16:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, learning from them has again, been a blessing.
• 16:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, it has, uh, uh, taught me a lot of things in a lot of depth.
• 16:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And not only that, uh, my life has also changed.
• 16:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Many, many times, 360 degrees because of the constellations that happened for me while we were practicing or while we were called for demos.
• 16:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So lot of things changed for us.
• 16:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 16:49
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and you were presenting in in Mexico recently as well?
• 16:54
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 16:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Right?
• 16:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, that's where we got to meet in person.
• 16:57
  Tracy Cartwright: I had seen you online before, but that's where we got to meet in person.
• 17:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 17:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, how was that for you?
• 17:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Have you, have you presented it?
• 17:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Before in another country.
• 17:06
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I've not presented before in another country, but I've done a few presentations online.
• 17:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah,
• 17:12
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 17:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, being in Mexico, I think again, it was one of the.
• 17:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Best experiences in experience in my life going to Mexico because it was my solo trip this time.
• 17:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: There was nobody else going to Mex Mexico, or Mexico as you call it, all the way from India.
• 17:30
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It took me almost two days to reach there.
• 17:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 17:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And then, uh, doing my presentation again.
• 17:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That was another, uh, heart touching moment for me because it was, the workshop was very well received by people that gave me a lot of confidence and, um, uh, I felt very happy and lucky, actually, and fortunate and grateful to be able to do it in and, uh, the kind of people they, that I had in my workshop, they were also good receivers.
• 18:00
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The field was helping me there.
• 18:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I now, if you ask me what did I did, I don't remember much, but whatever happened, it was more of a movement of a soul that happened there.
• 18:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Less words, but more constellations with movement of soul.
• 18:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: My theme as a presenter was coming back home, rising in love with self.
• 18:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, that was my thing.
• 18:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 18:25
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and you emanate that as well, which is so, you know, that's the, that's the thing that draws people to you as well.
• 18:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you have, um, you know, some people have specialties in their constellations.
• 18:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Is there something that you, or something that you see a lot of, like, you know, some people might specialize in domestic violence or relationship or
• 18:56
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Sexual abuse or something?
• 18:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Or is there something.
• 19:00
  Tracy Cartwright: You specialize in, or, or you're more of the whole?
• 19:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I, I think I specialize more in self-love.
• 19:08
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 19:09
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I do bring the elements of self-love in all the constellations that I do.
• 19:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 19:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Because self-love and, um, universal love.
• 19:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Are very connected.
• 19:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And love is the energy that drives constellation work too.
• 19:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The love in constellation work is pure, non-punitive, non-judgmental, which drives the constellation, right?
• 19:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I think everything begins when you start loving yourself and again, loving When you love yourself, you don't judge yourself.
• 19:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Your love has to be inclusive.
• 19:46
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Where you open your heart and connections just start happening.
• 19:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So there is a lot of similarity between constellation work and self-love.
• 19:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 19:55
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and yeah, love is, love is answer.
• 19:57
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And as Rumi says, out beyond ideas of good and bad, there is a field.
• 20:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Let's meet there.
• 20:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Something like that, Rumi says, so the field doesn't look at what is good, what is bad, who's victim, who's perpetrator.
• 20:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The lens is the same.
• 20:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It looks through the lens of love on, on everybody who's on the field, right?
• 20:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So it it, it's the love that drives the u. It's the most powerful uni unifying force that exists in the universe, and we have to bring that love inside us.
• 20:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 20:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Absolutely.
• 20:35
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that is what is self-love.
• 20:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you totally agree with you there?
• 20:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Totally agree with you there.
• 20:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, do you have any examples that you could share that maybe, that obviously don't cross anyone's boundaries or like, not sharing anyone's details, but maybe an example of a piece of work that, um, the listeners and the viewers love that they love to hear examples.
• 20:58
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause then sometimes they go, oh, this is.
• 21:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, that's mine.
• 21:02
  Tracy Cartwright: That's
• 21:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: so, uh, there are many examples and, uh, uh, I do constellations as and how, depending upon the issue of the client of course.
• 21:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But, uh, when I do self-love constellations based on self-love, self-love means accepting and embracing all parts of you.
• 21:20
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: When you're not able to accept and embrace parts of you, or when you exclude parts of you, then there is this, uh, uh, somewhere the conflict of not loving yourself fully, wholeheartedly, right?
• 21:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So when I do constellation work, I could use elements such as heart and brain or because I, I feel the longest distance that is ever traversed is from here to here, from the brain to the heart, and when you can.
• 21:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Come here.
• 21:51
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: When you can arrive here, a lot of things change for you.
• 21:55
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So one of the constellation that I do is heart and brain.
• 21:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Where is your heart now?
• 22:00
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And where is your brain now?
• 22:01
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Maybe also masculinity and femininity, because again, those two are the traits that you have and an imbalance in those also brings about, uh, issues in your life.
• 22:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So there are many, uh, constellations which I weave around self-love.
• 22:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It could be stages of development.
• 22:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm. Or it could be, um, as Eric Burns trans, uh, transactional analysis, uh, theory, the parent in you, the child in you and the wise adult in you, you know?
• 22:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I take elements around, uh, self-love, the theme of self-love.
• 22:35
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And when you start, when you talk about the specific, uh.
• 22:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Constellation, which I did for any client, and you want me to share that?
• 22:43
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Very recently, I did a constellation for a client and she would be very, um, sad all the time, no matter whatever was happening with her.
• 22:52
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, um, when I invited her for Constellation work and while we were doing it as a hidden dynamics, what came out was that her mother had two miscarriages before her, before she was born.
• 23:06
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Maybe she was not in the rightful place and she had taken the place of the, maybe the first miscarriage child or the second one who wanted to be born, who wanted to play around.
• 23:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You know, and do all the things which maybe she was doing or
• 23:26
  Tracy Cartwright: mm-hmm.
• 23:27
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Which as, as a life person would do.
• 23:29
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So when we did that and she found a rightful place and, uh, we could honor the siblings and, uh, give them their place.
• 23:38
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: A lot of things started shifting in a space.
• 23:41
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So this is, this is very fresh in my memory because I did it very recently.
• 23:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 23:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So maybe I could just, I just shared that with
• 23:48
  Tracy Cartwright: mm-hmm.
• 23:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 23:49
  Tracy Cartwright: I, I mean, I can, I can test it out and in my family system I have, um, two brothers that didn't, um, come earth side and, and yeah, that was certainly putting some pressure on our family system for sure.
• 24:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 24:05
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and I was standing in the wrong place in my family because, because when they, well, particularly the first one was very traumatic for the family, the way that he passed.
• 24:18
  Tracy Cartwright: So nobody talked about it.
• 24:20
  Tracy Cartwright: And then the second one happened quite quickly.
• 24:22
  Tracy Cartwright: So, but then that didn't even happen.
• 24:25
  Tracy Cartwright: And then my sister and I came along and, uh.
• 24:28
  Tracy Cartwright: And we were, we were in the wrong place in our family system.
• 24:32
  Tracy Cartwright: So I get it.
• 24:33
  Tracy Cartwright: It makes a difference where you, where you are and all who are part of your system and that belong, right?
• 24:40
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So important to give the place to the person, the system that they belong.
• 24:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Everybody belongs.
• 24:46
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Everybody has an equal right to belong.
• 24:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: How can we exclude the ones that were not being able to?
• 24:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, incarnate, no.
• 24:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 24:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 24:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Is there anything that you would like to share that is like there for you, that you feel like, uh, would be good for the listeners to.
• 25:07
  Tracy Cartwright: To understand, is there something that you feel is unique to you and your Indian culture that you bring through in Constellation or something?
• 25:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Whatever's,
• 25:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah, that's a beautiful question.
• 25:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I think the three orders of love.
• 25:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The orders of love, basically the orders of love.
• 25:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Which, uh, Heener talks about.
• 25:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I just always see, try to see the orders in each family system and, uh, even though there's a lot of respect for the elders in our, uh, Indian value system.
• 25:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, we do a lot of rituals for the departed souls and, uh, everything.
• 25:46
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: These, these are universal problems and, uh, orders of love are disrupted in some way or the other, consciously or unconsciously, I think in almost all families, no matter, no matter which part of the world they belong to.
• 26:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So.
• 26:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 26:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, correcting those orders or even speaking about them or even pointing them out sometimes makes a lot of difference.
• 26:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Have you seen, this is just a curious, this is something that's just dropped in after, as I've asked this question, because you have a caste system in India, which is more spoken about, I think in some countries there is a, there is that, but it's not spoken about.
• 26:27
  Tracy Cartwright: It's kind of just the unspoken.
• 26:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Have you ever seen in a constellation where.
• 26:32
  Tracy Cartwright: There has been struggles because someone from one class, uh, cast, cast.
• 26:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Cast is cast,
• 26:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah, you're right.
• 26:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Has married someone from another and, and that has brought, um, division in the family or,
• 26:47
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah.
• 26:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, see, so caste systems had been banished long time back, and uh, right now there isn't caste system as such, but yes, what you mentioned when people from different, uh, cultures marry each other, then I do see a lot of discrepancies because they're not ex able to accept the value system of the family into which they are getting married to.
• 27:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And this actually happens a lot.
• 27:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So it's, uh, I do understand when I see that what Heener said, it's so important to accept, um, and embrace the values and, uh, the ideas and the cultures and the ritual of the family also into which you are getting married.
• 27:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 27:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Because you're not just marrying that person, are you?
• 27:38
  Tracy Cartwright: You're, you're, you're
• 27:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: taking, yeah, and especially in India, because here when two individuals marry, they are not the only people who are getting married.
• 27:47
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The family's also getting married, and there's a lot of family involvement in India.
• 27:54
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So these things are very important to see and remember, and practice that you actually honor, respect, and value.
• 28:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The traditions, the culture, the values, the ideas of the family you are getting married to.
• 28:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And if you don't do that, discrepancies are bound to happen.
• 28:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes, absolutely.
• 28:16
  Tracy Cartwright: But you've taught me something new because I didn't know the cast system was no longer practiced.
• 28:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah,
• 28:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah.
• 28:21
  Tracy Cartwright: It's still spoken about.
• 28:23
  Tracy Cartwright: And that's the naivety of our Western mind by those of us who didn't know that it was no longer being practiced.
• 28:29
  Tracy Cartwright: How long, how long ago was it?
• 28:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So after independence, a lot of things started getting abolished.
• 28:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: We also had Sathi system where the, uh, widow.
• 28:41
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Of, uh, uh, the person who died would also burn herself in the buyer of her husband.
• 28:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You know, we had these systems, they, they were practiced for a very long time in India.
• 28:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 28:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But right now, because of so many social reformers and, uh, India is also evolving so much, and now there is so much of equality, which is being talked about in India.
• 29:04
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Things have changed a lot.
• 29:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 29:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, I haven't, as I shared with you, I have an Indian son-in-law, so I am learning so much about, uh, the culture, but I did, but I didn't know that, so that's a bit of interesting information.
• 29:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Maybe I, I, I have never actually asked him that question.
• 29:24
  Tracy Cartwright: So, yeah,
• 29:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: for a very long time there.
• 29:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And still, right now, also there is, there was this practice of patriarchy.
• 29:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Hmm.
• 29:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And women were dominated and, uh, made to feel and made to feel, uh, submit themselves, feel submissive and all those things happened for a very long time.
• 29:44
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It still do happen, but right now, women, they are becoming more expressive, more vocal about their needs, about their wants, and so, uh, it is not so easy to dominate them now.
• 29:57
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: As it was in earlier times.
• 30:00
  Tracy Cartwright: That's brilliant.
• 30:01
  Tracy Cartwright: That's brilliant.
• 30:02
  Tracy Cartwright: And um, and that's more so since India's become independent, right?
• 30:08
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: India became independent in 1947 and still a lot of practices, uh, continued, um, even after India became in independent because the conditioning was still there.
• 30:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: No, yeah.
• 30:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And then because of the social reformers and people.
• 30:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Who wanted India to evolve.
• 30:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Lot of practices started getting abolished.
• 30:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Ah, okay.
• 30:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Brilliant.
• 30:31
  Tracy Cartwright: It's so on my bucket list to come.
• 30:33
  Tracy Cartwright: It's always been.
• 30:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, and when my daughter met her husband was like, oh yeah, thank you.
• 30:39
  Tracy Cartwright: There's another calling.
• 30:40
  Tracy Cartwright: There's another reason I, I can go to India and for us in the, in here in New Zealand, I mean, we're at the bottom of the world, but.
• 30:50
  Tracy Cartwright: There was been a lot of that patriarchy as well over the years.
• 30:54
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, even though New Zealand was the first country in the world to let women vote, there was still a lot of the, um, the British colonial archaic.
• 31:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Ways of thinking for a very long time.
• 31:08
  Tracy Cartwright: And, um, yeah, but I, but I, we're pretty, pretty, um, what's the word, woman?
• 31:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Woman here don't, don't tend to like being told what to do.
• 31:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Pretty progressive, I think would be the word.
• 31:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah,
• 31:21
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah, yeah.
• 31:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And same here.
• 31:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: People now, nowadays, women, they don't like to do what they are told.
• 31:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It's like, uh, whatever was.
• 31:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Suppressed in us, in our times is now getting more than expressed in the times of our daughters.
• 31:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm, exactly.
• 31:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yep.
• 31:40
  Tracy Cartwright: And isn't that beautiful?
• 31:41
  Tracy Cartwright: And knowing too, for us, the more work that we do, the freer.
• 31:45
  Tracy Cartwright: The freer our children are, which is amazing.
• 31:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Let's see what else is there?
• 31:50
  Tracy Cartwright: The questions have we got to ask, does, has anyone else in your family system experienced constellation?
• 31:57
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, people who know me in my family system, uh, I think, uh, most of them have experienced,
• 32:05
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah, so your, your children and your.
• 32:09
  Tracy Cartwright: You are married?
• 32:10
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm not sure.
• 32:10
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'm married.
• 32:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I have two children.
• 32:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: My children and my husband have not experienced, but they know about Constellation work because I keep talking about it.
• 32:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I keep talking about the orders of love, and I never force anybody, uh, very recently, one of them to, I think my children have gotten their constellations done once, both of them.
• 32:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, uh, again, I don't, uh, because I don't force them.
• 32:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But I'm open if they want to do it anytime.
• 32:40
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Uh, the philosophies and the science behind it is something which I am always looking at and talking about.
• 32:47
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So they know a lot about Constellation work that way.
• 32:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 32:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 32:52
  Tracy Cartwright: I, um, when I first started, I had my daughters and my mom and my sister and my niece, they came to represent, to try and make up some numbers because, you know, um, to get people to come to my workshop was just like, how do you describe this back then?
• 33:09
  Tracy Cartwright: It was like, yeah, so they came to that, so they knew a little bit.
• 33:13
  Tracy Cartwright: They, and I think they, they, yeah, it's changed it quite a bit since then, for me anyway.
• 33:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, and my husband, he's.
• 33:20
  Tracy Cartwright: He hasn't experienced it directly until we went to, um, Indonesia last year.
• 33:27
  Tracy Cartwright: We, I ran a retreat there with a couple, uh, two other beautiful facilitators.
• 33:32
  Tracy Cartwright: We ran a retreat in Lombok and he came along and that was the first time that he'd been anywhere near a workshop of mine.
• 33:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So, and he even came to one of my sound baths as well.
• 33:44
  Tracy Cartwright: I do sound healing week, so Wow.
• 33:47
  Tracy Cartwright: It was, it was a real, uh, eyeopener for him.
• 33:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Not his cup of tea at all.
• 33:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, but he, he was part of it, so, and I think, you know, like when you are, when you have a partner like us, right?
• 34:01
  Tracy Cartwright: You can't, they can't help but doing some shifts because there's energy moving within us and within our system all the time.
• 34:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Have you got anything that you wanna ask me?
• 34:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So when did you come into this work?
• 34:13
  Tracy Cartwright: About 15 years ago when I had a situation in my family with my dad becoming, being diagnosed as being terminally ill.
• 34:23
  Tracy Cartwright: And, um, I was lucky enough to meet a facilitator who was running a workshop that afternoon and so I went to listen and um, and then I got to sit in the hot seat and it changed my luck and I recognized.
• 34:39
  Tracy Cartwright: The work I recognized, I'm a seer, so I've always seen and felt stuff and, and I hear so all my senses are like really heightened.
• 34:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Which, which was, which would freak me out because I, I had no idea of how to work with them.
• 34:55
  Tracy Cartwright: But it made sense to me for the feeling side of things when I was representing, 'cause I also represented in someone else's constellation.
• 35:04
  Tracy Cartwright: And then when I'm sitting there in the hot seat at the end of my constellation, I heard this is the work that you've been waiting for.
• 35:13
  Tracy Cartwright: You already know it.
• 35:14
  Tracy Cartwright: You just need to learn.
• 35:16
  Tracy Cartwright: You just, I think they said the science of it, but I think meaning the psychology of it.
• 35:21
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause I came in from.
• 35:24
  Tracy Cartwright: And energy medicine side.
• 35:27
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 35:28
  Tracy Cartwright: So haven't looked back and, and it opened my eyes to my relationship with my dad and I was really lucky 'cause I got another couple of years with him.
• 35:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Oh wow.
• 35:38
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wonderful.
• 35:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and you know, there's so many layers to these things, isn't there?
• 35:43
  Tracy Cartwright: The other day I was walking the dog and I was out there and, 'cause I'm always talking to mom and dad, they've both passed over now and just.
• 35:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Finding the gratitude, even though,'cause we had quite a tumultuous li uh, relationship in life, my dad and I.
• 36:00
  Tracy Cartwright: But finding the gratitude in the, in another way to bring him into my heart and just knowing that it was all perfect 'cause I wouldn't be who I am without all those things.
• 36:11
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Tracy Cartwright: So, yeah.
• 36:13
  Tracy Cartwright: You know.
• 36:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Beautiful.
• 36:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 36:15
  Tracy Cartwright: I say 'cause I train, I train people in constellations and I say to my students, you know.
• 36:20
  Tracy Cartwright: It's an ongoing evolution.
• 36:22
  Tracy Cartwright: We are all, even though, yeah, I've been doing this for, for this long, then there's still so much to see and do and learn and, um, there will, there'll be another layer somewhere along the line.
• 36:33
  Tracy Cartwright: It might just be a little one and that's okay.
• 36:35
  Tracy Cartwright: That's good.
• 36:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Yeah.
• 36:38
  Tracy Cartwright: And then I met a, uh, well, I went from that to finding a facilitator here in New Zealand and she was the only one offering anything like it.
• 36:49
  Tracy Cartwright: And we did a round of training and I think she only did one round as far as I'm aware.
• 36:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, yeah.
• 36:56
  Tracy Cartwright: And then I just jumped in from there.
• 36:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 37:00
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And who did you learn from?
• 37:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, in Gallica, ol was my first teacher.
• 37:06
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Okay.
• 37:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Here in, in New Zealand?
• 37:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Tracy Cartwright: So she's in Auckland and she's got, she's held the mantle for constellations here for a long time.
• 37:16
  Tracy Cartwright: No longer doing too much work, I don't think.
• 37:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 37:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Constellations are wonderful and magical.
• 37:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah,
• 37:22
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah, yeah.
• 37:24
  Tracy Cartwright: When we go into,
• 37:24
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: and they're not meant for everybody.
• 37:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: They are very sacred.
• 37:28
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So people who make, who are looking for entertainment, it's not for them, but people who are looking for real healing and are ready to be vulnerable are, um, ready to open their hearts.
• 37:42
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: To receive constellation work, it works only for them.
• 37:46
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 37:47
  Tracy Cartwright: I love how you say that people who are looking for entertainment, it's not for them.
• 37:51
  Tracy Cartwright: It's a great description because yeah, sometimes people come along for the,
• 37:56
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: so even when I invite people for constellation work, I'm extra careful and mindful to check what is this person looking for.
• 38:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Sometimes I call people for, because I want this work to become popular and uh, renowned.
• 38:12
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I do call observers.
• 38:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You know, but then I'm very mindful.
• 38:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I don't, I can't, I have to also check the persona of that person to understand whether he's ready for this kind of work or not, or whether he's just coming to oblige me or whether he's coming because he wants, he's looking for entertainment.
• 38:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So you have to be very mindful who you invite.
• 38:36
  Tracy Cartwright: And yeah, sometimes I'm just taking that word entertainment.
• 38:38
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause sometimes it is like you are watching a movie.
• 38:43
  Tracy Cartwright: So there is an, there is an element of entertainment to it.
• 38:47
  Tracy Cartwright: And the fact that it can be quite a drama without it being overly dramatic, but there's a whole sense of you are watching something unfold in front of you sometimes felt like I'm just, where's the popcorn?
• 38:59
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, like, this is amazing.
• 39:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Sitting here, watching this unfold and seeing parts of my own life.
• 39:04
  Tracy Cartwright: This is particularly in the early days.
• 39:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, but yeah, entertainment.
• 39:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Like if someone's coming along for the right reasons, right?
• 39:12
  Tracy Cartwright: For whether they, yeah, whether they have a piece of work or not.
• 39:17
  Tracy Cartwright: They are, um, that they, they will receive something, but yeah.
• 39:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And you know how I realized it so long time, back when I would invite people because I wanted this work to become popular, somebody after the Constellation messaged me, oh, I really enjoyed so much in your constellation.
• 39:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that was like a.
• 39:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Ringing off a bell for me.
• 39:40
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I said, what is there to enjoy?
• 39:42
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: How can you enjoy a constellation?
• 39:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You know, is this person looking for entertainment?
• 39:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It you, it's, it's just what it, what is, you know, that comes out and you have to just honor that.
• 39:54
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You have to be very respectful.
• 39:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 39:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Something has to touch you.
• 40:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 40:00
  Tracy Cartwright: It's interesting the different language though, because I mean, I would say that I've really enjoyed my day.
• 40:05
  Tracy Cartwright: It's a different.
• 40:07
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It, it brought a lot of meaning in my life.
• 40:09
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Or I had this takeaway from the Constellation, or I got this insight from the Constellation.
• 40:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You know, something like that.
• 40:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But can you enjoy a const?
• 40:19
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I don't know.
• 40:20
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Maybe I am just reading too much between the lines, but I think I have to be very mindful when I invite people.
• 40:28
  Tracy Cartwright: No, exactly.
• 40:29
  Tracy Cartwright: I think, uh, there was obviously something in that.
• 40:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 40:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, I've had, um, I think that, that, that con concept of, of knowing what it is that people want and Yeah, you're right for the reasons and, and not coming to appease or.
• 40:47
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And then especially because again, you know, that Constellation was not like a light constellation where you're just talking about it and just, uh, doing uh, some demos, but it was a very intense constellation which had happened where almost everybody was theory.
• 41:03
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So maybe this person's constellation happened.
• 41:06
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: When she talks about, I enjoy it, maybe she's not in connection with her own emotions.
• 41:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:12
  Tracy Cartwright: And sometimes we can enjoy it because it's.
• 41:15
  Tracy Cartwright: It's shifting something within us.
• 41:17
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 41:19
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 41:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Like you're saying, not in, not in connection with your emotions.
• 41:22
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It depends upon what kind of a constellation it is.
• 41:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So maybe when the constellations are light, or maybe when the constellations, uh, are just, just giving you insights but not touching your emotions.
• 41:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So maybe that is the time when you can enjoy it.
• 41:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But if they're touching your emotions, and if you are becoming emotional yourself, then I think enjoyment is not the right word.
• 41:45
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Maybe you can use some other word.
• 41:46
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, when we were in India and I, um, I did my presentation with the mountains and the rivers.
• 41:53
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Do, because I know that, um, the ganji is considered the, the mother.
• 42:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah,
• 42:00
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you ever use, um.
• 42:04
  Tracy Cartwright: The Ga ma mother ghi in your constellations.
• 42:06
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:08
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: No, I've not ever got it.
• 42:09
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: But I was really very touched by your constellations and uh, I really loved your constellations.
• 42:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I think this is a better word.
• 42:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Loved your constellations and, uh, the, especially the sound with the, uh,
• 42:23
  Tracy Cartwright: the drum, yeah.
• 42:24
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Drum that you did.
• 42:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It was doing something to the soul.
• 42:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes, definitely.
• 42:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It touches your soul.
• 42:32
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: The cons, this kind of a constellation actually touches your soul.
• 42:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 42:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And I was so happy that I exp exp got to experience your constellation.
• 42:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 42:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 42:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 42:43
  Tracy Cartwright: That's great.
• 42:44
  Tracy Cartwright: It was really, it was a really great experience in there Yeah.
• 42:47
  Tracy Cartwright: As well.
• 42:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Having an interpreter.
• 42:48
  Tracy Cartwright: That was another layer of, of, um, of experience, wasn't it?
• 42:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Having someone interpret us into, um, Spanish.
• 42:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 42:58
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 42:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 43:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 43:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Let me just share a little bit with you about my drumming on, on that, on that note.
• 43:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, so I never wanted to drum.
• 43:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 43:09
  Tracy Cartwright: The drumming was never something that I was, I had as a child.
• 43:12
  Tracy Cartwright: I'd been able to play on my cousin's drum kit and I loved that.
• 43:17
  Tracy Cartwright: But the concept of using a hand drum, a shamanic drum, or whatever you wanna call it, because I was hiding from my own.
• 43:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Gifts.
• 43:29
  Tracy Cartwright: I was, yeah, I was in denial of, of the gifts that I had, the field.
• 43:33
  Tracy Cartwright: I woke up one morning and, and I had been told, the field told me my dreams.
• 43:37
  Tracy Cartwright: The spirit told me my dreams, whatever you wanna say, call it, that.
• 43:40
  Tracy Cartwright: I had to make a drum.
• 43:41
  Tracy Cartwright: It's like I just woke up and I was like, looking at my ceiling, going, I don't wanna make a drum.
• 43:46
  Tracy Cartwright: That's the last thing I wanna do.
• 43:49
  Tracy Cartwright: But, uh, it was a very insistent, uh, voice that I usually.
• 43:54
  Tracy Cartwright: It's the one voice.
• 43:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, it's the voice that I don't argue with.
• 43:58
  Tracy Cartwright: And, um, well, I don't when, if I argue with it anyway.
• 44:02
  Tracy Cartwright: So I made a drum, I got someone to come up and make a drum, and I fell in love with it.
• 44:07
  Tracy Cartwright: I fell in love with drumming.
• 44:08
  Tracy Cartwright: I fell in love with drum making.
• 44:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, the whole process and the, the feelings that are in my body when I drum and I can see more, it opens the field for me.
• 44:19
  Tracy Cartwright: I see more layers.
• 44:21
  Tracy Cartwright: I drop into another space.
• 44:23
  Tracy Cartwright: So, yeah.
• 44:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Now I'm totally into drumming and you can, anyone can pass me a drum and I won't run away.
• 44:29
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wow.
• 44:29
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I never knew you make, you also make a drum.
• 44:31
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: That's wonderful.
• 44:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 44:34
  Tracy Cartwright: So I,
• 44:34
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I would love to buy, buy a drum from you.
• 44:36
  Tracy Cartwright: I call myself a drum doula, so I make drums.
• 44:41
  Tracy Cartwright: I, and I, I teach people to birth a drum because when you, when you make a drum, it's a whole process.
• 44:48
  Tracy Cartwright: To make a drum and it's a beautiful process.
• 44:51
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 44:51
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So if I get to come to New Zealand, I will inform you beforehand and I'm going to buy one from you and also learn.
• 44:57
  Tracy Cartwright: You could come and make one with me.
• 44:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Come and make one with me.
• 45:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Alexandra.
• 45:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Alexandra Finkelstein.
• 45:03
  Tracy Cartwright: She came and made a drum with me.
• 45:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wonderful.
• 45:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 45:06
  Tracy Cartwright: So the drum that was used at the, uh, at the conference, that was one that, uh, she had made with me.
• 45:14
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Wonderful.
• 45:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I just, uh, pray to God that I'm able to come to New Zealand, make a drum with you, learn from you how to play it.
• 45:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Anything's possible.
• 45:23
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Anything is possible.
• 45:24
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 45:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Just setting the intention.
• 45:26
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 45:27
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 45:28
  Tracy Cartwright: It would be beautiful if anybody wants to get in touch with you.
• 45:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Because I know that you do a lot of work online as well as Yes.
• 45:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, you do it in person and you do workshops and stuff.
• 45:38
  Tracy Cartwright: How would someone get in touch with you?
• 45:41
  Tracy Cartwright: I know that you've given me your physical link, so we'll put that in the, in the, um, information.
• 45:46
  Tracy Cartwright: But if someone was listening to this and they,
• 45:48
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: they can WhatsApp me on my number and they can mail.
• 45:52
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: On my email id.
• 45:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yep.
• 45:54
  Tracy Cartwright: And you have Instagram, Facebook,
• 45:57
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: yes.
• 45:57
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'm there on Instagram.
• 45:59
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'm becoming learning to become active on Instagram.
• 46:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I was more active on Facebook before, but now I'm switching and I'm becoming more active on Insta.
• 46:07
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: So I've gotten my Insta account, I've got my Facebook account,
• 46:11
  Tracy Cartwright: so.
• 46:12
  Tracy Cartwright: So how would they find you on Instagram?
• 46:14
  Tracy Cartwright: What's your title?
• 46:15
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: My name Ika.
• 46:16
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: It's a very unique name.
• 46:18
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And, uh, just, uh, typing my name, they'll find my account.
• 46:23
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm just looking at the way your name is, is spelled, you say it so fast.
• 46:31
  Tracy Cartwright: It's very similar.
• 46:32
  Tracy Cartwright: The last bit is very similar to Annie.
• 46:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Okay.
• 46:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I'll say it slowly.
• 46:37
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Just say it along with me.
• 46:39
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: BB wa
• 46:43
  Tracy Cartwright: wa.
• 46:44
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Knee.
• 46:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Knee,
• 46:46
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: voila.
• 46:50
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Excellent.
• 46:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Ah, very cool.
• 46:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, it's been beautiful to chat with you here and, um, I look forward to those intentions that we've put into the field coming to fruition.
• 47:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Yeah.
• 47:02
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And when you come to India, please do let me know.
• 47:05
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I would love to host you and Me too.
• 47:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 47:08
  Tracy Cartwright: That'll be amazing.
• 47:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 47:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 47:10
  Tracy Cartwright: We'll, we'll make these things happen, right?
• 47:13
  Tracy Cartwright: It's a beautiful, beautiful thing that we share within the world.
• 47:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you so much for your time and your amazing energy.
• 47:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, yeah, I really enjoyed talking with you.
• 47:25
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Same here.
• 47:26
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: I loved your energy and it was a very heart to heart conversation.
• 47:30
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: You made me feel so easy.
• 47:33
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And there's a warmth that just comes out of you.
• 47:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: Mm-hmm.
• 47:36
  Chayanika Bhiwaniwala: And that is my, my heart, and I'm so grateful to you.
• 47:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 47:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you for listening.
• 47:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 47:47
  Tracy Cartwright: You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 47:51
  Tracy Cartwright: That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 48:04
  Tracy Cartwright: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.