Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Science Behind Effective Skincare with Scott Futterman and Samuel Raoof of DRMTLGY

Transcript

The Science Behind Effective Skincare with Scott Futterman and Samuel Raoof of DRMTLGY · Skin Anarchy

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: This is a very special episode because I'm interviewing a brand that I have been using for quite a while now.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: I've been a huge fan of their entire line and I think they have such amazing products and really, really they lean on that efficacy component when it comes to skincare that you can rely on.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: And I always love these opportunities to talk to those type of brands because I think this is really the future of skincare as I've told you guys many times on the podcast.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I would love to introduce you guys to the co-founders of dermatology, Scott and Sam.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Pleasure to be here.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have you both.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited to dive into dermatology.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm so like I said, I'm a total stand for the brand.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that what you're doing is very unique in the space.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't really get to talk to a lot of brands that are so heavily focused on just let's do the science, you know, and let's get that right and go with that first and foremost.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: And I really actually even love the kind of marketing you guys put out.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, it just like all jives was what I think Skincare should be doing.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: So that's my, I mean, that's my little intro, but I would love to start off.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh Sam, can you maybe get us started?
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Walk us down memory lane, you know, in terms of like where did the brand begin for both of you?
1:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what really kind of sparked that that interest where you both thought, I need, you know, we need to start our own thing.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the story goes back 24 years.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm a son of a dermatologist.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: My father has been practicing for many, many years.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: And as a kid, we grew up going to the American Academy of Dermatology as our annual vacation.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: And so I get dragged around the convention floor with my father and you know, learning all about dermatology at a very young age.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Um so after school, I started working for my father in his practice and saw a true white space and a lack of high-end technology-based skincare products that were accessible for doctors for in-office dispensing.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then as a result, I decided to start working with some other labs, uh, start developing some of these formulations to meet that need that I saw that was uh greatly lacking within industry.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Um as I did that, quickly realized that there's an integrity and issue with a lot of manufacturers, and they really themselves didn't really understand and formulation chemists how to develop such high-active synergistic formulations that are really superior and that the dermatology community really needs.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: And so as a result, I started my own manufacturing facility from the ground up.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, started with a 3,000 square foot facility, personally got my drug license, um, and really this was to support our industry in terms of making these formulations uh really accessible and available to the dermatologists and plastic surgeons uh for in-office dispensing.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh, fast forward many years, uh, you know, we're now one of the premier manufacturers for high-active formulations, highly unstable products, and we manufacture millions of pieces to major pharmaceutical companies and retail channels and brands nationwide.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: And so Scott and I are childhood friends.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, uh we grew up together, and uh actually a part of the story that we missed is you know, as we fulfilled this need, we started offering these formulations to over 3,000 dermatologists and plastic surgeons nationwide for in-office dispensing.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is where that heritage comes in.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: So these are highly efficacious results in the formulations that doctors were uh continue to still in their practice.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: And so Scott and I are childhood uh friends, we grew up a block away from each other.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Um Scott really came to me and said, Hey, you have these amazing formulations, uh, but they're not accessible.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: They're only available for the doctor's office.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: You have to get a visit to see them.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of uh places in the country that just don't have easy accessibility to dermatologists.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: So why don't we take these formulations and make it more accessible to the masses?
3:43
SPEAKER_02: And as a result, that's kind of where uh dermatology was born.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Scott, I'd love for you to tell us like what made you really want to take that leap, you know, taking it out of the derm office and to bring it to consumers.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um this is about 2015, 2016.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of friends that were, you know, selling products online, you know, electronics, um, you know, supplements, you name it.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they were doing really, really well.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh at the time, I was in an industry that I kind of felt was was dying and I was looking for something new.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And and as Sam mentioned, we were childhood friends.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: I got to understand his business a little more a little bit more.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And I and I realized that you have incredible formulas that are trusted by thousands of dermatologists, but these these dermatologists are overcharging for these great formulas and and products.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what if we created a brand and and sold all of those products online, making them not only accessible as far as price point, but also the ease in which a customer can get it, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_01: So our own dot com and and Amazon at the time.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And um, and so, anyways, he's like, good idea, run with it.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we came up with the name dermatology, which really um encapsulates Sam's background selling to dermatologists and plastic surgeons.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, we started online for and sold online for about nine years before entering into Ulta December of 2025.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Again, just to make those products more accessible to consumers and meet them where they want to shop.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I love that you guys started in the clinic space though.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Like I really, really love that because I think there's no tried and true way to like test a brand, you know, than to give it to the, give it to the derms and let them play with it and then let them see, you know, is this actually applicable to my patients?
5:25
SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably why consumers love your product so much, because they've been, they've been tested, you know, like fully, fully vetted.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I would love actually to to expand on that if you guys don't mind.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe uh Scott, you can expand a little bit more for our audience because I know this is a trend right now in the space that I've seen, you know, in skincare where we're seeing a lot of people come up with brands, right?
5:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's great.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: I entrepreneurship is great, but like just your thoughts on this idea of like, where do you think skincare needs to be focused when it comes to like understanding truly what is efficacious?
5:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you think consumers should understand when they're trying to evaluate a brand based on is this gonna work?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Should I invest in this brand?
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Is it worth the money versus like the$12, you know, dupe or whatever they find?
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, just your thoughts.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: So, really, I think what's important is, you know, the you know, utilizing the highest concentration of actives available.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: And so at dermatopology, what we really focus on is like a combination of gold standard raw materials uh with new and novel technologies, and that in turn synergistically see the best results possible.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So we're looking for a synergistic effect of gold standard technology and new and novel actives.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: And within that, we can see the optimal results within the skin and really see a difference.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: Um that unique combination is really our core philosophy to our DNA.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And this is what consumers should be looking at products that have a real heritage within dermatology, who understand how to formulate and how to bring results within these formulations.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: And this is not marketing fluff, right?
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, and a marketing story, but some real substance behind it.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: And there's a real art form when it comes to developing formulations.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: And so anyone can develop a vitamin C product, but the question is, is it really efficacious?
7:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and is it the right particle size?
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Do you have the right bioavailability?
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Do you have the right delivery system?
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Is it really working in the skin?
7:14
SPEAKER_02: And these are what consumers should be looking for as they decide which brands or which type of products uh that they want to use on their skin.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: It's the real art form behind it.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Science is very, very important.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: But to understand how to develop the product, to get the right penetration, to get the right delivery system, and more importantly, as well, equally, is the aesthetics as well.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: And another example of this is sunblocks, right?
7:37
SPEAKER_02: If you look at physical sunblocks, you know, you have the full spectrum of products that make you look white and blue.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it looks like the olden days with the lifeguard and the whites.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Those days have come and gone.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: And so you have some really amazing formulations that are all physical, titanium, zinc, very high uh uh use levels.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: And why do they not have that white look to it?
8:01
SPEAKER_02: That's because it's the art of the art form of the science of the formulation, and really getting the combination of the unique particle size to get the right penetration, to get the right aesthetics, but also larger particle size and have those work together synergistically to ultimately get the broad spectrum rating that you need, which is the right protection, but at the right aesthetics.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: It's very important.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that stuff that aspects of the yeah.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think the other part of your question is like obviously it's it's a very crowded space, right?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: I feel like every day there's a new line coming out from someone or somewhere.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think for consumers, there's a few things that you need you need to look at.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, where's this where's this product actually coming from?
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Was it developed through clinical channels or was it just marketed that way after the fact?
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what's behind the claims?
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Like what testing have they done?
8:54
SPEAKER_01: What data are they using?
8:55
SPEAKER_01: What substantiation are they using?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, what went into it?
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as a marketer myself, I see like a lot of lofty claims with a lot of with not a lot of evidence.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, the I feel like the consumer also has to look at like, are these products built to sell or are they built to perform?
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think we see a lot of times that products are following trends that maybe, you know, aren't really following science necessarily.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they're they're really just built to sell.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: So I think dermatology, um, like Sam said, you know, we're focusing on those gold standard actives, clinically proven, but we're also constantly looking at new and novel technologies, which do have science behind them.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're really not driven by by trends.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: I really, I mean, I really respect that a lot because I think, you know, speaking to, you know, both of your points, I think there's so much that goes on to really create a brand in that way.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: And also I think consumers don't fully grasp that yet.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I've noticed is like, like you'll see a lot of people on, for example, TikTok, right?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: You'll see a lot of people on social media that are like, oh, well, this is just as good as this.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And the product took like four months to formulate.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how can you say, you know, like you can't you can't make claims about products that literally just came out yesterday, the same claims that you're making about something that's been around for 10, 12, 13 years.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
10:18
SPEAKER_00: That just doesn't add up to me as a scientist.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I want to get this message out there and Sam, I'd love for you to speak on this because I know like formulation is is that's a world, you know?
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure what happens behind the scenes in the lab and and understanding like how do you optimize, right?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Especially for the audience that you guys serve in the very beginning with the dermatologist's offices.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what are some of those hurdles that consumers never really get to hear about?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Realistically, how long do you think something like that takes for a brand to truly do their due diligence to bring that to market?
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look, I think there's um, you know, RD is something you can't rush, right?
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: It's something that takes time.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: It takes uh multiple multiple different uh iterations of those formulations and requires real clinical testing.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of companies will just use uh raw material supply data, and that's great, and we do that too.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: But we really take it a step further by actually conducting real clinical trials on our finished products, in our finished formula, in the final packaging, and really proving that the combinations of those materials are really working together and seeing the best results possible.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really critical and it separates us from a lot of other brands out there.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: As an example, we have our needless growth factor serum and recently did a uh RB controlled study uh with Dr.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: Stephen Day on that formulation.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it's a very, very uh expensive clinical trial that we conducted.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a drug-level trial, and as a result, we saw some fantastic uh results from that.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, but that really goes to the level in which we're going into to substantiate those.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but to develop a formulation um is is not easy.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot that goes into it, right?
12:00
SPEAKER_02: We have um uh full-on stability uh that we have to focus on, and stability is a real key factor here, right?
12:07
SPEAKER_02: We're not looking just to make sure that the product doesn't separate, doesn't change colors, but also the material itself has the right bioavailability, has the right concentration, um, and ultimately sees the best results possible.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: And so, as I is in uh uh things that we do here, you know, from a development standpoint, is we undergo what's called an accelerated stability process, where as we do all formulation, we actually take that product and we incubate it in an oven at 40 degrees Celsius with 75% relative humidity.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: And what we do is at the baseline, so day zero, we check for color, odor, appearance, pH, viscosity, we check the drug active level and we'll see what that looks like.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: And then at the 30-day, 60-day, 90-day mark, we check all those specifications again and see what's happening to the pH, what's happening to the color, you know, is this product really, really stable?
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that really ensures that we have a good quality product.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, we also run that in real time as well, because if we do something in accelerated, that may not mean it'll translate in real life.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that accelerate stability every day in the oven is considered one week on the shelf.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: So a 90-day accelerated stability gives us a two-year tentative expiration date from that.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: So every formulation undergoes the accelerated stability process.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: It also goes through a room temperature real-time study for 24 months, where we're checking zero, 30, 6, 9, 12, 18, 24 months, and we're checking all those specifications again.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: And then we do additional test where we do preservative efficacy tests, where we're actually injecting 70 million strands of bacteria into a product, and then we incubate it for up to 21 days, and we look to see what play the game, what wins preservative system or bacteria?
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we also do a freeze through test.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: We're actually freeze in the product uh and then let it get draw back to room temperature, and then we're checking all those specifications again.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: And the idea here behind it is what happens if we send up goods to New York and it freezes over at the weekend, right, at the warehouse and the consumer gets it.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna be stable?
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna be safe?
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Is it still gonna work?
14:17
SPEAKER_02: And so these are all a, you know, some of this testing that we do, you know, early on in the development stage to really ensure that we have the right safety, the right efficacy, the right performance, um, and that the product is is really gonna work uh from that perspective.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: That's brilliant.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: I love that you really dove into that.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sam and Scott.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: I just want to know, like from like a, and this might be a little, you know, straightforward, but how much does all that cost?
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Like that's a really costly process, right?
14:44
SPEAKER_00: For a brand to go through all of that testing and like and to get all that done before, you know, even coming out.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's it's it's expensive, but at the same time, we want to make sure that we're doing things the right way.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Um at the end of the day, the consumer comes first, efficacy comes first.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the whole goal is to get someone into a dermatology product, have them love it, have the best experience, the best outcome, and you know, continue to purchase our not only that product, but get get into other products as well.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yes, while it's expensive, while some brands don't do the level of testing that Sam was just mentioning, um, it's really important to us.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you go back to like, you know, our heritage, Sam was manufacturing these products and still does for thousands of dermatologists and plastic surgeons.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a level of efficacy and safety that's required for them to feel comfortable to, you know, dispense those to their patients.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And um dermatology follows that same that same model.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that actually brings up a really interesting, you know, point also is that right now I think we're in a place with skincare where people are really starting to debunk a lot of these labels that people like to put on skincare products, you know, like medical grade or like clinical grade or dermatologist, you know, recommended or test.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would love to talk to you guys about this because you did start in the dermatology office.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's like where you began.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: So, like, what are your opinions on that whole idea of like being truly validated through dermatologists over time versus just labeling a product as like, oh, dermatologist recommended?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: From my understanding, there's no true regulatory framework to account for this.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think it's a it's a very interesting topic, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, dermatologist recommended to substantiate that claim doesn't really require a big lift, right?
16:34
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty easy for anyone to really go to make that claim.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: I think for us, as we look at our our DNA and who we are as a company, you know, uh clinical efficacy, medical, physician dispense type style is really who we are, right?
16:50
SPEAKER_02: And who, you know, uh, and that's really our our ethos of this brand.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: So, so, so to your point, like there is no definitions for any of the, you know, what all of the claims that you just made, right?
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Same thing as like clean beauty and and and the and the like.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's really up to a brand to define like what does that really mean to them?
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, dermatology started off as like, you know, a medical-grade skincare company, and we've kind of gone away from that because you know, the industry, you know, we don't want to be like, we also look at a clean beauty as being this like uh kind of this like black hole, right?
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Like what does it actually mean?
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And like medical grade, there's a the same kind of thing out there.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it actually mean?
17:30
SPEAKER_01: And so rather than saying medical grade, we're actually just going out there and proving it without using that exact language.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, but our heritage really is medical grade.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: So when you look at the medical grade companies, we feel that we play in the same ballpark as them, um, but we're just a lot more accessible than they are.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so when we were developing this brand, we really wanted that message to come through to consumers, like, hey, we are that, but we're a lot more accessible.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: This is a different business model, but this is our heritage.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's it's really it's again, it's a really interesting topic.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do how do brands use these to you know sell products?
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And and at the same time, we never have used that that wording to say that we're better than someone else or say a better product than this one because we are medical grade.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: We've never said that in our history.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: It just goes back to our standards as a brand.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: All that testing that Sam just mentioned, that's really why we felt that we we are that.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's why we that we said that.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: But we never used that language to put fear or or say we're better than someone else.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's another important factor when using these claims is to um keep that in mind.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm glad you clarified that out, honestly.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think that I don't think brands are trying to like be malicious, right?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: When they they've used that in the past.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I just think that now that consumers are getting more privy to like trying to understand like where is the efficacy?
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, where do I, what words do I look for to see if a brand is claiming efficacy, right?
18:56
SPEAKER_00: In their in their formulations, like, okay, you know, you're saying 90% people in, you know, saw an increase in hydration.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, where's the data?
19:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, where's your where's the proof of that?
19:05
SPEAKER_00: I think that matters more than anything.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: And I always try to say that on this podcast where it's like, you know, you guys got to start looking for things.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, if a brand is publishing results, like you guys have done clinical trials on your product, you've done the homework, you've done the like the due diligence for your consumers.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, for me as a consumer, I can say I have faith in a brand like that that's being transparent from the get-go instead of relying on these buzzwords or these like, you know, like non-regulatory labels.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Like it, that doesn't those don't matter at the end of the day.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: What matters is if a brand's actually done it, they'll show it to you.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And if they haven't done it, they're just not going to talk about it or they're gonna dance around it.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: In a very unique environment as well, is because we have, you know, we're not just a brand, right?
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Our heritage is manufacturing, developing.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: It's physician dispensed.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that deep understanding of actually developing products, actually manufacturing products really allows us to be superior in a lot of different ways.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and most brands out there do not manufacture and do not develop their own formulations.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: They use third audio contract manufacturers to achieve those, even major, major brands out there.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: And so from that perspective, the insight that we have is really, really unique from that perspective of really being able to understand the true needs from a development formulation standpoint, but also understanding what the needs are within the dermatology offices and really making sure that we have the most efficacious and results in the formulations from that perspective.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And and just to go off your point, Sam, like what does it take to take like a professional grade product and bring it to like mass scale for consumers?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you have to do from the manufacturing side to really make that possible?
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a great question.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's uh a lot that comes into it.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, quality, safety, clinical FSC is always number one, right?
20:58
SPEAKER_02: As we look at that.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so for a brand to really do this and transition from a physician dispense to make it more accessible, I think it comes back to education.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Education is key.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, here at dermatology, you know, we believe in a multifacet approach to solving issues.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: We don't believe that any one active will address any one issue.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, we believe in it's truly a synergistic effect.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: And a good example of this is for dark circles.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Dark circles can be caused for hereditary reasons, aging, smoking, environmental conditions, but each one of those has a different treatment method to address those.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: And so really you need that synergistic effect to achieve and resolve those type of problems.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: But as you look to take products from the masses, um, you know, a physician dismissed brand and bring it to the masses, we want that DNA to stay the same.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: And education is a key component of it.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Examples, we have our say our retinal products.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, our retinal products, we educate our customers that you are gonna have some irritation, some redness.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: And this is normal, this is expected for this product, and that means it's working.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And we're getting the cell turnover that we're looking for.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: But in a mass brand that's let's just say, um, you know, that's out in the drugstore, you know, you don't have that ability to educate that consumer, or the brand is really not doing a great job at that.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So as a result, they have to adjust the pH, they have to adjust the concentration of those actives and really dilute it to make it that to the point that it's not causing that redness or irritation in the short window.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: But in turn, you know, they don't get that consumer complaint or the, you know, of, hey, I have an allergic reaction to this product, when really this is the intended result that we're trying to achieve with this.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: So to me, I think it's really critical as we look to bring on these types of high-active formulations, making sure it's safe, making sure that we educate the consumer to understand what are you looking for, right?
22:48
SPEAKER_02: What is signs that it's working, what signs that it's not working, when is it really an allergic reaction versus this is the you know, the stimulation of skin that we're looking for.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: And and the other part of that is it's like, you know, we're we're operating at a different economy of scale, right?
23:05
SPEAKER_01: When you're selling to doctors' offices, you know, the the scale is is much different than a brand like dermatology, which is selling to millions of customers.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, we're able to maintain that integrity of our products because we are operating and sell them for significantly less because we are operating at scale.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, and also that just the physician's dispense model is is just a different business model than what we're operating, and that we're selling to mass consumers who're trying to be accessible to everyone, where you know, a physician is is basically a middleman, right?
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It's the it's the um company, the the doctor, and then the end consumer.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: And you know, everyone needs a enough margin to make it worth their while.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think based on economies of scale and just a different business model, that's how we're able to maintain that same integrity of physician dispense style products, but selling to you know the masses.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: So how do you actually balance that, like, you know, the cost and then keeping that efficacy there, you know, as well as the compliance component?
24:09
SPEAKER_00: How do you balance all of those factors when you are scaling to this level?
24:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think it's better being transparent, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, for us as a brand, we're we're okay with taking less profitability um and focus on quality, right?
24:23
SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, we don't want something that just smells good and feels good.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of brands out there that do that.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but what they're lacking and why they they keep looking for, you know, other brands is because they're missing the uh efficacy, they're missing the results, they're missing the difference, seeing a difference in their skin in a short period of time.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: And that's really who we are as a company.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: And so as we focus is not on profitability, it's focused on efficacy and results.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we'll take in lower margins to make sure that we support that.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: And that's the core of who we are.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: A lot of brands will use, you know, uh you know, buzzwords, buzz actives, uh very low concentration, according to the FDA.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: In order to say you have raw material in your formulation, you can you you have to use a minimum of 0.001%.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: That's nothing.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: That's fairy dust.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: It's not doing anything, right?
25:14
SPEAKER_02: And so you have two brands, one's using it at 2%, and one's using at 0.001%.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: They're both making the same claims, right?
25:21
SPEAKER_02: They're both saying it has, you know, uh vitamin C or retinol or whatever it may be.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: And so for us, you know, quality, concentration, formula efficacy is number one, and we do not compromise on that.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, no, that's that may thank you for clarifying that.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that you brought up such a good point with that percentage thing, you know, and I'm kind of glad because consumers these days are starting to look deeper, I think, into that, you know, because they're realizing like there is a lot of fairy dusting that's been going on, you know, in terms of a lot of these, like the products that are claiming to be more active driven, you know, I think they are saying, oh, you can expect this, but they're selling at price points where it's like, how did you accomplish that?
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're selling a peptide serum for$5, like I'm gonna wonder as a consumer how you're even able to do that because peptides cost so much and you have to buy them in bulk.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: So, like, how do you even sustain that?
26:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's where I think it becomes really important, I think, for consumers to, I mean, you know, one, the price point, right?
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Where people say something's too expensive for my budget, but then also looking at why is this product expensive?
26:23
SPEAKER_00: There's gotta be a reason.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, some, some there's not, some there's no reason.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, I know there's a lot of brands out there like that, but some I think brands have a real reasoning behind what they've done, how they've done it.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Exactly speaking to your point, Sam, where it's like we're accounting for a lot of things here.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, efficacy is first and foremost for you guys.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, the percentages have to be right, you know, and with that is gonna come inbuilt cost.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: There's just no getting around that.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: So I think from a consumer standpoint, I always like to play that devil's advocate of like, you know, well, hey, listen, you know, you got to really look into that.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: You got to start accounting for that.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a mixture of like, you know, having that RD, but also marketing it in a digestible way to where it actually matters for a consumer.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that's where a lot of brands miss it.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where dermatology has done a really good job is like, you know, how do we we we do this, but like how do we how do we present that to a consumer where it actually matters to them, right?
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, because at the end of the day, a consumer doesn't care if you spent um well, I guess they do care, but you know, like millions of dollars on RD.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: They just want a product that is affordable to them that works.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's and it solves their problem.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Um that's really all they're all they're looking for at the end of the day.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think dermatology is just blended kind of all of that really, really well.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: I want to actually kind of dive in because you guys have really expanded.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I I personally love like your body retinal product.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a beautiful product.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, just to just to get an understanding, Sam, I would love for you to kind of talk about this because I see a lot of brands right now that are trying to expand into body, and I feel like we might be facing the same problem again, you know, with the fairy dusting thing.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like they're trying to do it, but I'm not fully convinced that we're addressing the body, you know, as as truly its unique needs, you know, thicker skin layers, all that.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: So I'd love for you to speak on it because your body retinol product is phenomenal.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: It's so, so good, and it's really efficacious.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: So again, I think you know, our retinol body is a fantastic product.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: And again, why it's doing so well is there's a real need uh consumer base for these types of products, but more importantly, it works, right?
28:29
SPEAKER_02: Our use level of retinol is high.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: We have other actives and other delivery systems that allow that penetration into the skin, and that's really critical, right?
28:37
SPEAKER_02: So again, going back to the art form of uh of uh developing formulations, I like to use the analogy of like a beach ball, uh beach ball, right?
28:46
SPEAKER_02: If I try to get this beach ball to come into a basketball hoop, it's not it's not gonna go in, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I can have the right retinol there, I can have the right actives, but it's just not gonna penetrate into the skin and you're not gonna see the results.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: But in turn, how do I get a golf ball to go into a basketball hoop?
29:02
SPEAKER_02: It's just gonna go in there with ease, right?
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's really what why particle size, delivery system, the synergies of the different activities are really, really important.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: And we've nailed it with the retinol body product.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you really get the right penetration, you get the right results, um, and it's efficacious and you see it.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's really why uh it's doing so well that our consumers are really having high demand for the type of product.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: And it's also an area that people neglect.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: As you look at skincare as a whole, right?
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Where do people put first most put most attention on?
29:36
SPEAKER_02: That's right here.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: Where do they neglect?
29:39
SPEAKER_02: They neglect here, they neglect their hands and their arms, right?
29:42
SPEAKER_02: And now they're realizing that we're neglecting our body as well, and your body needs, you know, uh care as well.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: And so uh that's really the you know, the space in which we wanted to address the need for with that retinal body product.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think you definitely addressed it because it it it works, like it really works.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And and I think for for a lot of consumers, I I mean, I don't know if if you guys listening out there feel the same way.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: For me, body was a very um gray space for a long time because I I was looking into the skincare space and I was like, when are when are we gonna finally start talking about body skincare?
30:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's like great to have all this for the face, but we need some products, you know, like that actually work.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And and for a long time it was like, you know, you'd find a couple of body creams, whatever, tons of fragrance, you know, tons of stuff you don't need.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like we keep repeating the same mistakes.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's really refreshing to see a brand approach the space with the same vigor and the same efficacy and all of the wonderful things that you do for facial skin.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: So really truly love that product.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, the other product I wanted to actually, Sam, kind of pick your brain about was the needless uh the that serum that you were talking about with Dr.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Diane that you worked on on the clinical side.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to learn more about that product because we hear a lot about it at Skin Anarchy.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: People are always asking us to tell them about it.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, you know, let's hear it from the founders rather than me trying to explain it to them.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: I'd love for you to kind of educate us on the science of the product.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I'll jump in really quick about this.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Um so there's a lot of other growth factors on the market, most of which are a lot more expensive than ours.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: And so we had that, we felt like we had this uphill battle to prove ours is as efficacious as the more expensive ones.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: And so um, not only were they more expensive, but they also use human growth factors where ours are lab derived.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: So our formula is vegan.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: And again, there's like a misconception out there that human growth factors are the only ones that can accomplish, you know, um anything in the skin.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: So uh we actually did a head-to-head uh double-blinded clinical trial with Dr.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Dayan out of Chicago, um, comparing our growth factor um with one that was, I think, at four to five times the price of ours.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: It's the gold standard.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: It has a ton of clinical trials on it, it's physician dispensed.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: And um, we went head to head with theirs and we beat them in almost every category that we you know that we went against.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: It was a 12-week trial.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we have five bioengineered peptides, which mimic um, you know, the growth factors.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's a very elegant formula.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: I think when people first put on on ours compared to the other one, it's just a it's a better experience.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Again, it goes to the art form.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And not only is this product working really well, but we also want it to like absorb well, feel good on the skin, not you know, not necessarily stink like maybe the other one does.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's been a it's been a great product for us.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And and as dermatologists in the future, like we really want to like get back to our roots of like these really efficacious treatment products.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: That's really who we are at our core.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and this was kind of the first product back into that um that field for us.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think you know, we've seen consumers really, really love this product.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: It delivers you know incredible results.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the other part of it, which is really cool, is that you can use it with any other products, you can use it any time of day, um morning and night.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh Sam, I don't know if you have anything else to add about this formula, but um, I think you know the it's a great one.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a really great product.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: That's why I wanted you to speak on it because I I know a lot of people love it, and rightfully so.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: It's really, really it does the job.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've definitely noticed a huge difference.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: I've been using it for, you know, before we connected, I've been using it prior to that, and I really enjoyed it.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's interesting here, and um, I'd love for you to expand on this, Sam, is this idea of like novel ingredients, right?
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Because we're seeing a lot of that right now.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: I think this in the skincare space where everybody wants to jump on a bandwagon with an ingredient, right?
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's bioengineered, whether it's something that's like a naturally derived ingredient, whatever, but they don't, I don't know.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: We never learn about them, you know.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Like we at the end of the day, like we never end up learning about like why this ingredient, why does it matter?
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where I don't know.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I just would love to understand, like, in your opinion, when do you think an ingredient is worth looking at and incorporating into a formula versus just it's a hype train and like leave it alone kind of thing?
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: It comes back to data.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, it's data, data, data.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: And that's really what it's all about.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: So as our RD team looks at new technologies, new actives, the first thing we're asking for is not the one-page marketing sheet on that raw material, that technology.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: We want to see the full clinical study.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: We want to see the raw data.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: We want to really poke holes into it.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: We want to see is the data statistically significant.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: Is it really working?
34:26
SPEAKER_02: How is it working?
34:27
SPEAKER_02: What's the mechanism of action?
34:28
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times, 90% of the materials we see, 95%, we just exclude because it doesn't have that substance to it.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: It has some early prelim data, you know, something that was done in a lab, and you know, and they're you know exaggerating some things and really, you know, making claims that is not really supported by the data.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: And so for us, as we look at new and novel technologies, it has to have substance to it, it has to have clinical backing to it, it has to have that real scientific validation that we're looking for to really look at that.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: And then we look at that and say, hey, how does this compare to the gold standard activities that we already have?
35:05
SPEAKER_02: Is it better?
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Is it not?
35:06
SPEAKER_02: What's better about it?
35:08
SPEAKER_02: How does it work?
35:09
SPEAKER_02: And is there, does it complement what we have?
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Um and if it's not better than what we have or offer some synergistic effect by combining these two together or working a different pathway, why bother?
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Right?
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so from that perspective, all that goes into it.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: And so for us to really get on a new material, it really requires that level of data to support that material for us to really see a differentiation in terms of pathway, a mechanism of action, or efficacy that's different than the gold standard, or a synergistic effect, combining new and novel technologies with gold standards to really see optimal results.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of how we we approach that from that perspective.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think that's where um we don't really get to hear a lot of that, you know.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, on the consumer side, we don't really get to hear about like what happens to an ingredient before a brand incorporates it before.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad that you brought up the data component because that is something that I think consumers we need to understand is that that information does exist for brands to look at.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And if they are then choosing to use an ingredient based on that, that's one thing.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: But if they're just saying, hey, listen, everyone's talking about XYZ, you know, derived from whatever plant today, like let's just put it in, you know, and hope to God it works.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: That's a whole different world.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So really good to get that clarity.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would just, I mean, I think my my next question really is around this idea of like, uh let's hone in on some things.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: I think vitamin C like this is one of the big ingredients.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think uh, Sam, both of you, I mean, I'd love for you to chime in on this because I know I have gotten a lot of backlash on social media when I've tried to speak about vitamin C because, you know, when you speak about it, one, the mechanism of action, two, what results to expect, right?
36:56
SPEAKER_00: All of this gets so buried, I think, with marketing.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: And I would love to understand like, what is it about vitamin C that you think is important?
37:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, like what should we actually care about when we're looking at it through the lens of efficacy?
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you can expand on that.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: To me, I think it again goes back to results.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: It's how are you developing a vitamin C?
37:17
SPEAKER_02: Is a vitamin C an environment in which it's stable and it's gonna actually work, right?
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Again, go back to particle size formulation, pH is a really, really important factor.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and also in how it's batched, because I could have an amazing formulation, but if I don't uh put it in the order sequence in the batching correctly, at the right temperature, at the right time, you it's not gonna work.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have major stability issues.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: So, very stringent controls from a manufacturing and processing standpoint is critical.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: And understanding the vehicle in which this product is going into.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: What is that environment?
37:53
SPEAKER_02: What are the other materials in it?
37:55
SPEAKER_02: How do we support stability with other materials?
37:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, fruit acid, vitamin E all helps stability when it comes to vitamin C.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's others as well.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: And how do we make sure that the product is really stable and we have true bioavailability?
38:09
SPEAKER_02: This is actually gonna work.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: It's actually gonna penetrate in your skin and see results.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of companies, a lot of brands don't go to that level and don't have that true understanding of the stability, um the stability environments that are required to see the optimal results to get the right penetration, to get the right efficacy, the right bioavailability, and all these are factors that have to come into play, which is a combination of the science formulation and the art to really achieve those.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Um makes sense.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: So so what is the difference then?
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I just want to expand a little bit further because I know we have L-scorbic acid, we have THD, we have all these other, like we have so many variations of vitamin C now.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Where is the mechanism, Sam?
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, what mechanism should we be focused on?
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Because, right, like the idea is I mean, from my understanding, we want this to work on collagen, right?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: So it becomes a co-factor for collagen synthesis and all of that.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: So, does is that the main thing we should look at?
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Or I mean, is it really the antioxidant potential that um we should be more focused on with vitamin C?
39:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's your opinion on that?
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Look, I think there's it's a it's a multifacet benefit that you come with vitamin C.
39:19
SPEAKER_02: It's not just one, you get the antioxidant benefits, it's helping for so many different areas within your skin collagen production, helping with pigmentation.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: There's so many different benefits that we have.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if we really, even as a as a as a uh scientist, we really understand how and all the different ways that vitamin C really is helping and what it's really doing.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but from the data we have, they are different kinds and they are different forms.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: Um each one has pros and cons, right?
39:45
SPEAKER_02: For instance, tetraxadacyl scorbate, which is a fantastic form of vitamin C.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: It has some great bioavailability, it has its pros and it has its cons as well.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: And so as we look at those, we really need to look at what is the end result of this formulation?
39:59
SPEAKER_02: What are we really trying to achieve?
40:01
SPEAKER_02: And how do we make sure that we're hitting it through every possible pathway?
40:05
SPEAKER_02: The antioxidants is just one portion of it, right?
40:08
SPEAKER_02: Stability by availability is another portion, um, efficacy for uh collagen production and build-up, um, andor free radical production and and uh fruit radicals and really focusing on helping pigmentation.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: Each one has a different mechanism of action.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and each vitamin C isn't made the same, right?
40:26
SPEAKER_02: And has its different benefits.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, but really at the end of the day, stability and bioavailability, in my opinion, is the most important thing.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Without that, everything you've got, it's just not working.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: It isn't doing anything.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, makes sense.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Scott, I'd love for you to add something if you can on the from the marketing side.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Because I just feel I know I'm like harping on vitamin C, but I swear I see so many of these products, I'm like, I don't even know if this works, you know.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, it just, you know, I think Sam really, really hit it on the head.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have a I don't have a lot to add.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm not a scientist.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, if you want to do a deep dive into vitamin C, I'm probably not the person to ask.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it just kind of goes back to my earlier, earlier point.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, like who's who's making this product?
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what type of stability have they done?
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we kind of touched on it earlier.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's some brands on TikTok that are launching products every month.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Who really went into making that?
41:20
SPEAKER_01: Did they do all the necessary steps to where it doesn't irritate your skin, to where it actually absorbs, to where you actually see the benefits that they're claiming?
41:27
SPEAKER_01: They might have the same percentages that we do, but did they do all the necessary steps to make sure that um you know the product is working the way they said they are?
41:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, I hope so for the consumer's sake, but um, those are just some things to look for, specifically with vitamin C, actually any product.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, but um from a scientific perspective, um I think Sam nailed it on the head.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: Like uh Yeah, no, I wanted to, I wanted to get your take from exactly what you said.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Really, you answered my question because that was like that was the whole thing was that there's still a marketing component, you know, even though we know so much about vitamin C and like scientifically, I know like Sam, like you could do probably like a two-hour deep dive for us, you know, into like vitamin C, but it's more so like I think for our listeners to understand that like there is an entire world that exists where it's like you do have to test this stuff, you know, you can't just say every vitamin C serum is the same.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: You can't pretend you have to really look at like what was the due diligence done on the brands and that made sure that this product is one, going to be shelf stable, two, it's gonna actually work for me.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: And then three, is it actually keeping in mind people's different skin needs, you know?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big one because for a long time, especially with vitamin C, I was seeing like 30% vitamin C, you know, blah, blah, blah, like all these percentages.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: And it was like, that's, I don't feel like that was telling the story of vitamin C, you know, like like just upping the percentage.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's where my biggest questions, I think, come from is that we in skincare keep seeing this like this shifting of narrative of like how do we market these products?
43:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, guys, like come to the science.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think Sam, you've said that throughout the episode, where it's like, it's data, it's always data, you know, that's the number one driver.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's why I keep asking.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Who is the couple behind it?
43:13
SPEAKER_02: And that, you know, that's in my opinion, one of the most important components.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: If the company has the right, you know, philosophy, the right understanding, everything else will come to fruition.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I think that's a really important one.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, it was several years ago, Scott and I went and we're looking at products on Amazon that were bestsellers or that had high, high ratings.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: And we're looking at this and we're like, you know, something doesn't add up here, right?
43:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, how they selling this for like nine dollars of vitamin C e fruit.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: Like it just doesn't make sense.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: And so we actually purchased a bunch of products and we sent it to a third party FDA lab and we started assaying products um to see what was the actual level of vitamin C in those products or retinol or uh whatever it may have been.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh a a a big one that you know we're still working on is uh Um, our luminous eye corrector, which is sunscreen, um, there are some knockoffs, and we could see that there's sales on Amazon.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: They're selling you know thousands of units a month.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: And we assayed the uh sunscreen ingredients in those, in those knockoff products, and all of them failed.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: There's almost next to nothing as far as like the you know, zinc oxide, titanium dioxide, whatever they're claiming.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: We assayed those specifically, almost nothing in there.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, Amazon still allows them to sell uh on there.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Thousands of consumers think they're getting sunscreen when they're really not.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: So it kind of just goes to Sam's point is like you really need to like look at the integrity of the brand that you're purchasing from.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, because we we've tested, we've actually tested some products and and seen that you know the ingredient levels aren't necessarily in there that they're claiming.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a whole nother subject that we could talk about another day.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, I mean, like you kind of like blew my mind just now.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's great to know that though, right?
44:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, thank you for pointing that out because I think that's what consumers that's exactly was what I was trying to, you know, understand was we don't get told that.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, and then at the end of the day, you're like, well, who do I blame?
45:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like who well ask the brand.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: I think at the end of the day, the biggest thing for a consumer is investigate the company, know who you're buying from, know what they're about, where are they located, what is their experience, why do they have credibility to be able to, you know, market these products and don't get caught into the marketing hype, right?
45:28
SPEAKER_02: Go to the science, go to the data, see the results because the data is not gonna lie.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: And that's really what it's all about.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, that would be my biggest advice for any consumer who's looking for skincare, you know.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's great advice.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: It's honestly really, really great advice.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: I hope people follow that more going forward, you know, because we we gotta get there, guys.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I keep saying this on my podcast.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: People probably they're getting sick of me, you know, preaching about it, but I couldn't agree more um with everything you said, Sam.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's true.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: But I want to dive into your new the facial RX brightening moisturizer um and really talk about the technology there.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, Sam, could you tell us more about that product and like what makes it unique and what's you know, all the great tech?
46:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you know, like we talked about before, traditional vitamin C formulations often smooth pace challenges.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: Um we have stability issues, we have limited skin penetration, bioavailability, and ultimately it reduces the effectiveness of those formulations.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: And so with a new facial brightening moisturizer, um, we have uh what we're calling the uh uh gluten gold smart C complex, which overcomes these issues through a unique formulation that really pairs ascorbic acid with master antioxidant glutathione and collodial gold um uh particles.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: And so, in result, we're actually able to address the stability issues, address bioavailability, and really deliver technologies and actives that will really see a difference within your skin and ultimately help with brightening, with hydration, pigmentation issues from that perspective.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that you know, the pairing of those materials was really helping.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: We've seen some fantastic early results um, you know, uh and ongoing uh with regards to stability um and availability of those actives.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: And so we're very, very excited about this.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: And the combination we've seen has really helped prove uh that we're actually able to stimulate collagen production, which in turn helps for reducing fine lines and wrinkles, um, and more importantly, I think hydrogen mutation, which is a real um you know concern.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: I love that you paired it with glutathione.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we never really get to see glutathione a lot.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: So super excited to get you some samples as soon as we have somebody.
47:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: And while there's like some, you know, long term obviously long-term benefits of this, it's also just a great aesthetically pleasing moisturizer to begin with, because it gives you like that really like post-facial luminous glow.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, so not only is there like immediate benefits, but also like the long term, which you know, dermatology is really known for.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean your products are also good in that way too, though.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like I just like and that's a part of skincare.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel like we sometimes like we get lost in in the whole world of like efficacy, but yeah, that's part of skincare.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that instant feeling you get when you put a product on your face.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: And I love all of your products.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: I think they're so good.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: So we'll get to you, we'll get to it as soon as possible.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please do.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: I would love to try it.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: But no, this has been amazing.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you both so much.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: Like I've really enjoyed this conversation.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, this is exactly the kind of like rigorous deep dive that I hope to, you know, do on this podcast because, like I said, consumers are in a whole different area.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, we never get to look behind the scenes and to really understand from brands that are doing the it the right way, like what it takes and how much goes behind it.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: So I can't thank you both enough for really taking us into that world and showing us, you know, um what it takes to create a brand like this.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: And you have an open invitation.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Anytime you'd like to come, be in the LA area, come to our facility.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: You can see our state-of-the-art manufacturing operation, you can see developments how we develop our products, testing that we do, see the quality control that we have throughout the uh manufacturing operation.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: It is really, really impressive.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, and would love to have you uh you join us anytime.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: That means a lot to me.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to take you up on that next time I'm in the area.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: All right.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: All right.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: It's been a it's been a pleasure to talk to you.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Um thank you for having us on.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we we're very appreciative of the opportunity.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.