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Another ETF Triple Crown? Plus a Global Bull Market and More · Trillions

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. And when we talk
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Speaker 1: about the Triple Crown, are we just barely eking past
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Speaker 1: it last year's triple crown? Or or is there the
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Speaker 1: potential that this is going to be a pretty watershed
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Speaker 1: triple crown?
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Speaker 2: Oh? I think he's would be a watershed yere. Now again,
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Speaker 2: granted what happens with the market, but flows were already
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Speaker 2: over a trillion, which I think we just throw around
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Speaker 2: that number trillion dollars kind of rare. Yeah, welcome to Trillions.
0:34
Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Athanasio, Sarah Vegas.
0:37
Speaker 1: We're in mid August right now, which means A. We're
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Speaker 1: also already well into Q three and B vacation schedules.
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Speaker 1: Eric Bulchiunas is off this week, so we've turned to
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Speaker 1: one of our favorite regulars on Trillions, Athanasio Sera Fegas,
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Speaker 1: an ETF analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence who will.
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Speaker 2: Be covering for Eric.
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Speaker 1: Athan. Pleasure to be doing this episode of Trillions with you.
1:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, this, I'm excited the film for Eric.
1:03
Speaker 1: And since Eric is away, we figured we could get
1:06
Speaker 1: a little experimental. There are five storylines that we're gonna
1:11
Speaker 1: explore together.
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Speaker 2: Today.
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Speaker 1: Some we've briefly touched on before, others are totally new
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Speaker 1: and noteworthy.
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Speaker 2: It might be summer, but it's not quiet and ETFs
1:20
Speaker 2: there's always something going on.
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Speaker 1: Of course, money is flowing into ETFs at a pace
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Speaker 1: we've never seen before. Back to back triple crowns. Maybe
1:29
Speaker 1: the bull market has gone totally global. Some unexpected markets
1:34
Speaker 1: and countries are capturing investors' attention. M and A is
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Speaker 1: also turning heads, and Goldman Sacks is now a big
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Speaker 1: reason why. There's also a competition for Marquee real estate
1:46
Speaker 1: and finally a heartwarming comebackstory, this time on Trillian's Five
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Speaker 1: Big Themes and ETFs. Right now, all right, Dathan, The
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Speaker 1: first thing I want to talk to you about is
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Speaker 1: something that Eric and I kind of neglected to do,
2:02
Speaker 1: which was a halftime report, which usually we would do
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Speaker 1: back in June. The main thing I wanted to call
2:06
Speaker 1: out was the triple crown. Triple crown is three things,
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Speaker 1: and last year set records, and that was for trading volume,
2:18
Speaker 1: assets and launches. Those three things make up the triple crown.
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Speaker 1: We've had triple crowns before, but the one thing we
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Speaker 1: never had is a triple Crown in back to back years.
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Speaker 1: How likely is that looking.
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Speaker 2: It's looking very likely. I think it's going to set
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Speaker 2: all the records, probably by September. But you know, last
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Speaker 2: year was pretty amazing. The market was good, everyone had
2:38
Speaker 2: their foot on the gas for launches, so we really
2:41
Speaker 2: thought coming into this year we weren't going to be
2:42
Speaker 2: able to repeat. It was almost like a euphouric year.
2:45
Speaker 2: But this is blowing away our expectations. And usually volume
2:50
Speaker 2: spikes when the market is bad, right, and we have
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Speaker 2: a good market this year, you have launches following up,
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Speaker 2: you have new issuers still coming into the market. So
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Speaker 2: I think in the next month or so we could
3:01
Speaker 2: likely just already set all the records.
3:02
Speaker 1: We've talked about Corgy and a new asset management firm
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Speaker 1: that's just blown everything out of the water, could set
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Speaker 1: a record and even have the most ETFs under management
3:12
Speaker 1: by the end of the year. If we removed Corgi
3:15
Speaker 1: from the picture, what does the Triple Crown start to
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Speaker 1: look like?
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Speaker 2: Launches wise, it's still really good, but they're definitely a
3:20
Speaker 2: big part of it. But you know, most of the
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Speaker 2: stuff that's coming out, it's still continue to be single stock.
3:25
Speaker 2: It's derivative, it's a lot of that stuff, so that
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Speaker 2: definitely skews the launches. But Corgy's definitely a big driver
3:30
Speaker 2: of it. So some of the record months that we
3:32
Speaker 2: had this year was because of Corgy. But yeah, they're
3:35
Speaker 2: definitely an interesting one. They're going with this like basically,
3:38
Speaker 2: let's put like every chip down that we can and
3:41
Speaker 2: see if one ETF hits.
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Speaker 1: And when we talk about the triple crown, are we
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Speaker 1: just barely eking past it last year's triple crown or
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Speaker 1: or is there the potential that this is going to
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Speaker 1: be a pretty watershed triple crown?
3:53
Speaker 2: Oh? I think this would be a watershed year. Now again,
3:56
Speaker 2: granted what happens with the market, but flows were already
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Speaker 2: over a trillion, which I think we throw around that
4:00
Speaker 2: number a trillion dollars. Its kind of rare. Yeah, it's
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Speaker 2: And another thing we looked at is how many months
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Speaker 2: taken over a hundred billion and at like new assets.
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Speaker 2: It's not basically every month, this is the new norm.
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Speaker 2: Fourteen straight months, we've taken at least one hundred billion
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Speaker 2: every single month, which is an insane number.
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Speaker 1: What was it like before those fourteen months?
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Speaker 2: Very rarely it's maybe like seventy eighty, but it started
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Speaker 2: creeping up so rarely did you see one hundred billion
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Speaker 2: dollar month That was like in a really really good one.
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Speaker 2: Now it's just the norm. Fourteen in a row. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: and so this just seems like this is this is
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Speaker 2: the new number of money coming in.
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Speaker 1: And if there's any piece of the triple crown that
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Speaker 1: doesn't set a record, what do you think it's going
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Speaker 1: to be.
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Speaker 2: It might have to be volume, But really they're all Cohen.
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Speaker 2: You know, unless launches stop today and there's no more launches,
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Speaker 2: then that one won't happen. But that's unlikely to happen. Now.
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Speaker 2: Maybe closures could potentially pick up, just because obviously with
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Speaker 2: more products it's more competitive, it's harder to get these hits.
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Speaker 2: But right now, I don't think any of them are
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Speaker 2: gonna They're all going to be blown away.
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Speaker 1: Okay, well one to watch. Okay, topic number two, we're
5:07
Speaker 1: going to talk about the bull market goes global. I
5:10
Speaker 1: thought this was really interesting because we've talked before and
5:14
Speaker 1: Eric is very dubious that there's anything contrary to us exceptionalism,
5:19
Speaker 1: But it turns out that the rest of the world
5:21
Speaker 1: looks pretty darn good.
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Speaker 2: So far this year, it's just been like good stock
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Speaker 2: markets for literally everybody. And yeah, we looked at it
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Speaker 2: and the US just kind of ranks in the middle.
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Speaker 2: And this is a fourteen percent gain, still a good
5:33
Speaker 2: a good year by any standards. But if you look
5:36
Speaker 2: at the average country, ETF is about up about twelve
5:39
Speaker 2: percent this year and a lot of Mungo country. Yeah,
5:43
Speaker 2: so single one. But even if you look at the
5:44
Speaker 2: broader benchmarks, they're all doing really well. So and you
5:48
Speaker 2: look at some of these smaller countries, they don't have
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Speaker 2: any AI, right, not like US. What's an example of one,
5:53
Speaker 2: so like one like Colombia. Actually Greece, not to be biased,
5:56
Speaker 2: but Greece is having a fantastic year. Doesn't have any
5:58
Speaker 2: Athans Greek for the record, Yeah, if anyone could figure
6:01
Speaker 2: that out, they're a great market. So Peru. All these
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Speaker 2: countries are doing really really well and have almost.
6:07
Speaker 1: No table those are those aren't AI. So what's driving
6:10
Speaker 1: it for them?
6:11
Speaker 2: I think it's one value, Like the value factors doing
6:15
Speaker 2: really well in these countries just tend to be really
6:16
Speaker 2: kind of loaded towards that factor. But I think it's
6:19
Speaker 2: also a little bit of a diversifying trade. Yeah, we're
6:22
Speaker 2: still very skewed towards the US. I think people are
6:24
Speaker 2: starting to open up a little bit towards international just
6:27
Speaker 2: as a diverse fire against AI. You know, in case,
6:30
Speaker 2: you know, you have that month in July where AI was,
6:32
Speaker 2: you know, semiconductions were hit kind of hard. I think
6:35
Speaker 2: they're looking for a little bit of safety, and I
6:37
Speaker 2: think this is why some of these other countries are
6:39
Speaker 2: doing doing it pretty well.
6:40
Speaker 1: Does that account for some of the inflows? Is a
6:42
Speaker 1: US money that is looking for international exposure totally?
6:46
Speaker 2: If we break down ETF flows, it's definitely still very
6:49
Speaker 2: very US focused. But global and international are having record
6:52
Speaker 2: years too, but so is the US. But it's just
6:54
Speaker 2: more money being spread around. And I think that also
6:58
Speaker 2: locally these countries that investors are getting much more easier
7:02
Speaker 2: access to their own stocks, So I think that's also
7:04
Speaker 2: helping fuel these country ETF performance.
7:07
Speaker 1: The ones you rattled off there are Columbia, Greece, slip Peru.
7:10
Speaker 1: These aren't Asian countries. And I'm curious, like, what's the
7:15
Speaker 1: Asia segment looked like in the single country stuff.
7:18
Speaker 2: Asia looks really good. Obviously Korea was a big one
7:21
Speaker 2: just but that was pretty semiconductor driven, and China's been
7:24
Speaker 2: doing well. Again that's tech, so you do have tech
7:26
Speaker 2: also doing well. So Asia is definitely more skewed towards
7:29
Speaker 2: the tech side versus Europe or Latam that will have
7:31
Speaker 2: less of that. But again it just goes back to
7:34
Speaker 2: everything is doing well. Almost every sector is doing really
7:37
Speaker 2: well too. Most sectors are beating the SMP. Most stocks
7:40
Speaker 2: in the S and P are doing better than the index.
7:42
Speaker 2: So when you actually break it down, it actually is
7:45
Speaker 2: a pretty healthy market. A lot of things are just
7:47
Speaker 2: doing really really well.
7:48
Speaker 1: But of course when things go up and keep going
7:51
Speaker 1: up for a long time, makes people in see hence
7:53
Speaker 1: why there's money looking for potential international offerings.
7:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, to diversify or go into
8:01
Speaker 2: things like buffer ETFs and stuff like that, just or
8:04
Speaker 2: extain money market funds. I think, you know, just as
8:07
Speaker 2: a way to you know, maybe feels a little fragile
8:09
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, and they want to make
8:11
Speaker 2: sure they don't give back a lot of these gains
8:13
Speaker 2: that they've had over the last couple of years.
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Speaker 1: Okay, topic number three, m and A. We haven't had
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Speaker 1: a lot of M and A in the ETF space, historically,
8:22
Speaker 1: but there's been some recent.
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Speaker 2: Activity that I felt was noteworthy.
8:27
Speaker 1: What's been happening.
8:28
Speaker 2: So this happened last week. Goldman had bought this etfshure
8:31
Speaker 2: in NEOs, which they kind of specialize in eos. Yeah,
8:34
Speaker 2: and eos which is actually a Greek word. Oh yeah,
8:37
Speaker 2: there it goes. It's agree And I actually just watched
8:40
Speaker 2: the Odyssey this week it too, It's a very Greek
8:42
Speaker 2: filled week. I knew this was going to happen that
8:44
Speaker 2: we've been talking about. Agree, that's right. So Goldman had
8:47
Speaker 2: just bought this firm of NEOs and so they specialized
8:50
Speaker 2: in option income. METFS paid a little over two billion
8:53
Speaker 2: for them, have about thirty billion in assets. And what's
8:56
Speaker 2: interesting about this is Goldman had just acquired Innovator about
8:59
Speaker 2: like six months ago. They'd done two acquisitions in a
9:02
Speaker 2: really short time. But what stuck out to us about
9:05
Speaker 2: this was just the size of NEOs, right, being a
9:09
Speaker 2: thirty billion dollar asset manager when you kind of look at, okay,
9:12
Speaker 2: potential targets, I probably wouldn't have had Nios on the
9:15
Speaker 2: list honestly, just too big, right, and you have to
9:17
Speaker 2: pay a lot for them, So we'd maybe be thinking
9:20
Speaker 2: somewhere ten billion fifteen billion makes it more attractive. But
9:22
Speaker 2: I think now if these other issuers are looking potentially
9:26
Speaker 2: for an acquisition, I think now it puts a lot
9:29
Speaker 2: more firms in play, right, And I get it. Golden
9:32
Speaker 2: was pretty aggressive with this, Like you're not seeing this
9:34
Speaker 2: kind of aggress like aggressive movement from all some of
9:36
Speaker 2: the other firms.
9:37
Speaker 1: What's what's happening at Goldman? Why would they want to
9:39
Speaker 1: do this?
9:40
Speaker 2: Goldman was interesting when they kind of launched around the
9:42
Speaker 2: same time with JP Morgan, and they were kind of
9:45
Speaker 2: going head to head as these two big banks and
9:48
Speaker 2: their assets are pretty neck and neck. But then after
9:50
Speaker 2: a while, just you kind of felt Goldman give up,
9:53
Speaker 2: you know it just and JP Morgan really took off.
9:55
Speaker 2: JP Morgan really leaned into it.
9:57
Speaker 1: Of the big banks, JP Morgan has the most assets
9:59
Speaker 1: under management.
10:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and most of them are in like Deutsche Bank,
10:03
Speaker 2: Morgan Stanley, So you do have most of the Wall
10:05
Speaker 2: street banks in the industry. But JP Morgan just really
10:07
Speaker 2: ran away from everyone. So Goldman in a way might
10:10
Speaker 2: be trying to catch up, like hey, we you know,
10:13
Speaker 2: maybe before they just thought that ETFs weren't worth it,
10:16
Speaker 2: you know, Obviously the fees are low and we're a
10:18
Speaker 2: much bigger bank. This is not a big part of
10:20
Speaker 2: our business. But now it seems like they're just making
10:22
Speaker 2: up for a lost time buying Innovator, buying NEOs within
10:25
Speaker 2: you know, a couple months of each other. So I
10:27
Speaker 2: think they're just trying to catch up.
10:29
Speaker 1: When you look at what Innovator provides and what NEOs provide,
10:31
Speaker 1: what's the strategy that you think Goldman's trying to exert.
10:34
Speaker 2: I think Eric's come up with this boom boomer candy, right,
10:37
Speaker 2: and so they're definitely tailoring towards an older demographic, more
10:42
Speaker 2: outcome based or hedging type ETFs, ones that will do
10:47
Speaker 2: well or better when the market is down. But what's
10:50
Speaker 2: interesting about these firms is their assets is very They're
10:52
Speaker 2: very sticky, and I think that's what Goldman wanted. They
10:55
Speaker 2: didn't want some kind of fly by night hit that
10:57
Speaker 2: they would buy and maybe assets might leave the as
11:00
Speaker 2: it's here are really really they've stayed with these products
11:02
Speaker 2: for a long time, which is why I think they
11:04
Speaker 2: paid so much for these firms, because it's really really
11:06
Speaker 2: sticky assets. But they're definitely leaning into this buffer and
11:10
Speaker 2: defined outcome you know, part of the industry, and so
11:15
Speaker 2: they've launched their own. But it seems like now they
11:17
Speaker 2: just rather just buy the assets. And I think also
11:20
Speaker 2: they're buying distribution. They're buying, you know, an interesting investor
11:23
Speaker 2: base that they can now bring into their own like
11:25
Speaker 2: JP Morgan World.
11:27
Speaker 1: Who else does that sticky fly paper?
11:29
Speaker 2: Well in terms of retaining acid, Yeah, that's a good
11:32
Speaker 2: one because we looked at this, right, and so we said, well,
11:34
Speaker 2: who else could be an interesting target? Now some of
11:37
Speaker 2: the ones that do, like First Trust, they're really big.
11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like compared to thirty billion under there.
11:44
Speaker 2: Are a couple hundred billion, right, so and you know,
11:46
Speaker 2: they're already a top ten issue where I don't know
11:49
Speaker 2: if that's interesting a target that'd be an expensive one. Yeah,
11:52
Speaker 2: that'd be a big one. I don't know who would
11:53
Speaker 2: be able to do it, but there are some interesting
11:56
Speaker 2: firms and like the second and third tier that have
11:58
Speaker 2: a couple hits, and you know, I don't want to
12:01
Speaker 2: speculate on any names, but I think issuers are now
12:03
Speaker 2: going to maybe start looking at that tells you just
12:05
Speaker 2: acquiring assets, right, Like we mentioned with the Triple Crown,
12:08
Speaker 2: there's all these new launches Now all of them are
12:10
Speaker 2: getting assets, right, A lot of the assets are still
12:12
Speaker 2: going towards a more concentrated set of products. So I
12:15
Speaker 2: think that M and A is an interesting strategy for
12:17
Speaker 2: some of these firms that maybe want to grow and
12:20
Speaker 2: you know, really scale up in the industry very very quickly.
12:23
Speaker 1: And if thirty billion this was the surprise, what do
12:27
Speaker 1: you think the number is now like that Suddenly people
12:30
Speaker 1: are waking up and being like, hey, if thirty billions
12:33
Speaker 1: the new go like, let's get there or any way
12:36
Speaker 1: we can? Or do you think people start acquiring smaller.
12:40
Speaker 2: Just because yeah, I think maybe smaller pieces off the board, Yeah,
12:43
Speaker 2: or maybe some consolidations like it being like maybe white
12:47
Speaker 2: label issuers that kind of competing with each other, maybe
12:49
Speaker 2: they come together and say, hey, we can actually just
12:52
Speaker 2: have a bunch of synergies if we work together. So
12:54
Speaker 2: maybe could see something like that. But yeah, I think
12:56
Speaker 2: this is gonna really you know, you said M and
12:59
Speaker 2: A has not been half happening for a while just
13:01
Speaker 2: because it was easier for issues to just do their
13:03
Speaker 2: own stuff. Who's cheap to launch an ETF And we
13:05
Speaker 2: see it with all these launches because it is cheap
13:07
Speaker 2: now to launch an etf or cheaper than it was,
13:09
Speaker 2: but getting assets is hard and now it seems like
13:12
Speaker 2: you're paying a premium to get assets. And so yeah,
13:15
Speaker 2: I think now any numbers in play. If thirty is
13:18
Speaker 2: is where Golden had looked, I think anything up to
13:20
Speaker 2: that could could be an interesting target.
13:22
Speaker 1: And if Goldman is a buyer and was sort of
13:24
Speaker 1: not expected to be one, like, who do you think
13:26
Speaker 1: would be aggressive?
13:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one. I think any of these
13:31
Speaker 2: asset managers that are struggling, so you know, the big firms,
13:35
Speaker 2: the legacy asset managers that launch their own business and
13:38
Speaker 2: are struggling, I think those are the ones that might
13:40
Speaker 2: want to start looking to ramp up. So you know,
13:43
Speaker 2: traditional asset house is that you know just maybe haven't
13:46
Speaker 2: had that much success in the industry. Okay, well trypowder
13:49
Speaker 2: or watch.
13:50
Speaker 1: We'll see what it comes to it.
13:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's definitely going to be a we
13:53
Speaker 2: maybe see another one before the end of the year.
14:05
Speaker 1: Okay, next topic, I want to talk about the fight
14:08
Speaker 1: for the flagship indexes. There's really two big ones in
14:12
Speaker 1: the US S and P five hundred and NASDAQ one hundred.
14:17
Speaker 1: The S and P five hundred has long been dominated
14:20
Speaker 1: by Spy, but we have seen in recent years Spy
14:25
Speaker 1: gave up the crown and now we probably have an
14:29
Speaker 1: incumbent also from State Street that's going to try and
14:33
Speaker 1: like make a search for it. So walk us through
14:35
Speaker 1: what's happening.
14:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that exciting. I'd like that.
14:39
Speaker 1: Drive basis points to almost zeroad like two or three,
14:43
Speaker 1: and and yet there's a bloodbath almost.
14:46
Speaker 2: S and P launched the version off Spy called spy M,
14:48
Speaker 2: which is supposed to be this cheaper, more retail friendly product,
14:52
Speaker 2: and it's done really really well. It's you know, it
14:55
Speaker 2: hasn't been enough to counter the loss of market share
14:59
Speaker 2: of Spy, but they got some huge news recently and
15:02
Speaker 2: with the launch of these Trump accounts, right so opening
15:04
Speaker 2: up accounts for new kids, spy Am was now the
15:07
Speaker 2: default choice in these accounts and went to two basis points.
15:10
Speaker 2: It's two basis points, so one that's a huge win.
15:13
Speaker 2: It's usually it's not Vanguard.
15:14
Speaker 1: Right so VU is currently number one, and it hit
15:18
Speaker 1: a trillion dollars first ETF tod so earlier this year.
15:21
Speaker 2: It's over a trillion. IVV is really close for tillion.
15:23
Speaker 2: Might have another trillion dollar ETF and so I want
15:27
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their fee. But
15:30
Speaker 2: that's just like a huge win for State Street, who's
15:32
Speaker 2: really been kind of losing share in that S and
15:35
Speaker 2: P battle.
15:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, that big three between like black Rock, Vanguard, state Street.
15:39
Speaker 1: It was sort of felt like Vanguard and black Rock
15:42
Speaker 1: really started to pull away from from State Street. But
15:45
Speaker 1: like the spy M development, it's gonna take a while,
15:48
Speaker 1: but potentially, you know, it could be knocking on the
15:50
Speaker 1: door for you know, being much bigger soon.
15:52
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. And I think now this puts that
15:55
Speaker 2: ticker more in people's heads than just like vo or
15:57
Speaker 2: IVV SO. And again, if you're opening a truck account
16:00
Speaker 2: and they do it, they're probably gonna they're going to
16:02
Speaker 2: hold onto this.
16:02
Speaker 1: Right for a while a long time, Yeah, like twenty years.
16:06
Speaker 2: If parents are going to be putting money into these,
16:08
Speaker 2: So can massive win for State Street to be able
16:11
Speaker 2: to get into that.
16:11
Speaker 1: But it's not the only one. We mentioned NASDEK one hundred,
16:14
Speaker 1: So what's happening over there, Like the Cues obviously has
16:17
Speaker 1: had this index on lock for years.
16:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was this weird relationship that they had this
16:22
Speaker 2: exclusive on the cues. And I guess anyone who's listened
16:25
Speaker 2: to this podcast, you know you've covered the cues quite
16:27
Speaker 2: a bit. They've gone through a lot of kind of
16:29
Speaker 2: structural changes. They moved from a U T. They're now
16:32
Speaker 2: a product that.
16:33
Speaker 1: A unit investment trust, which is kind of the more
16:36
Speaker 1: archaic et of structure.
16:37
Speaker 2: It was, and it was this weird thing that a
16:38
Speaker 2: mesco couldn't really charge on it. They had to spend
16:41
Speaker 2: their money on marketing. They were able to change the structure,
16:44
Speaker 2: so now they can make some money and they lowered
16:46
Speaker 2: the feet and so they've had this monopoly on this
16:49
Speaker 2: ticker basically forever. And recently you had State Street and
16:54
Speaker 2: black Rock file and launch QQQ ets, which goes back
16:58
Speaker 2: to your point about this battleground for the core and
17:01
Speaker 2: like these these flagship indexes, and they undercut the price
17:05
Speaker 2: of QQQ. Now Invesco has a cheaper version of Q
17:09
Speaker 2: called QM and there's a lot of cues. Yeah, and
17:14
Speaker 2: so they have that, but now State Street and black
17:17
Speaker 2: Rock have come in even lower. Blackrock even has a
17:20
Speaker 2: fee waiver to even lower the fee they're doing. Okay,
17:23
Speaker 2: I think they're about five hundred million each right now,
17:26
Speaker 2: And I think initially they'll probably put them in some
17:28
Speaker 2: of their own models, and then eventually investors might warm
17:31
Speaker 2: up to it because QQQM has done really well for investco.
17:36
Speaker 2: You know, it's cheaper. I think new money coming in
17:38
Speaker 2: is going into that versus the queues. So now you
17:41
Speaker 2: have this. They were basically enjoyed years of no competition
17:45
Speaker 2: for their biggest product. Now all of a sudden you
17:48
Speaker 2: have Black Rock and State Street coming in. Could I
17:50
Speaker 2: could see Vanguard doing it. I don't think this is
17:52
Speaker 2: that far fetching of idea for them for their lineup,
17:55
Speaker 2: So imagine that if you have them in that lineup too.
17:58
Speaker 2: You know again that they're massive right to the big
18:00
Speaker 2: products out there. But it's really really competitive. And this
18:02
Speaker 2: is where one basis point can really make a difference.
18:05
Speaker 1: Which speaks to the power of the indexes in general
18:09
Speaker 1: indices if you're in the industry, and how valuable like
18:12
Speaker 1: these flagship disease are.
18:14
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, remember even the whole SpaceX thing and sort
18:17
Speaker 2: of they were all kind of figuring out that we
18:19
Speaker 2: want to add him, do we want to not? And
18:20
Speaker 2: this now has a big decision, a big impact on
18:23
Speaker 2: your investments. But Yeah, for sure, these indexes are getting
18:27
Speaker 2: really really powerful and you know, and their decisions and
18:30
Speaker 2: what can be added into it. But yeah, this is
18:32
Speaker 2: an interesting race because you thought that that race was over.
18:35
Speaker 2: Like who's going to be launching QQQ products right now?
18:38
Speaker 2: It's two competitive it Investo owns all that basically, But yeah,
18:42
Speaker 2: this is a new interesting race.
18:44
Speaker 1: But in part the reason there is a the performance
18:46
Speaker 1: has just been showstopp or blowing SMPAA over if you
18:50
Speaker 1: look at it for a decade or even beyond that.
18:53
Speaker 1: But the other thing about is how much money Invesco
18:55
Speaker 1: is made off of. I mean, you guys done research
18:57
Speaker 1: about how much revenue you generate.
19:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely the most profitable product. Now how that
19:03
Speaker 2: gets chopped up that's a different discussion, Like doesn't all
19:05
Speaker 2: go to Invesco, But in terms of money generation it
19:08
Speaker 2: is really does really well. And the thing is because
19:11
Speaker 2: of the performance, like you mentioned, does really well. The
19:13
Speaker 2: fees a little bit higher on the cues versus the
19:15
Speaker 2: S and P. Right, so like you're at two versus
19:17
Speaker 2: on the S and P and like ten on the cues,
19:20
Speaker 2: which doesn't sound like a lot, but because the performance
19:22
Speaker 2: has been so so much better for the cues they
19:24
Speaker 2: can actually charge a little bit more too. We have
19:26
Speaker 2: to talk about Greece. It's Grease back, oh man. Performance wise,
19:32
Speaker 2: it has actually been unbelievable. What's what's been happening? You know,
19:36
Speaker 2: they went through a pretty rough restructuring process.
19:39
Speaker 1: Forever ago, like ten plus years forever it like back.
19:42
Speaker 2: From twenty fifteen. They had to cut their pensions, they
19:45
Speaker 2: had to sell off properties, so they went.
19:47
Speaker 1: It was like your basket case.
19:49
Speaker 2: It literally couldn't you remember like all the yeah, totally,
19:52
Speaker 2: and so as part of the stipulation, they had to
19:54
Speaker 2: really cut back on a lot of things, and they
19:56
Speaker 2: went through this really tough period and now they're starting
19:59
Speaker 2: to climb out of it. They're one of the only
20:00
Speaker 2: few countries that now you know, don't have like a deficit.
20:03
Speaker 2: Their GDP's growing. So yeah, if you zooma far enough,
20:07
Speaker 2: this chart still looks horrible, right, Like, Grease still has
20:10
Speaker 2: a lot of work to do, But over the last
20:12
Speaker 2: ten or so years it's basically been on par with
20:14
Speaker 2: the US performance. So I think it's just them coming
20:17
Speaker 2: out of a very low base. But yeah, it's it's
20:19
Speaker 2: definitely last year. They're like the top performing stock market.
20:22
Speaker 2: They're like in the top five this year. It's been
20:25
Speaker 2: a couple of years of just like really really strong performance.
20:28
Speaker 1: What is the ETF that's tracking Greece and it's you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: nacent comeback.
20:33
Speaker 2: There's one. It's GREK g r e K. It's from
20:35
Speaker 2: global x. It's tiny. One thing I will mention for
20:38
Speaker 2: all the country ETFs mostly they're pretty small, like they're
20:41
Speaker 2: doing really well. But when most people will buy international,
20:44
Speaker 2: they'll buy like a broad index. But there is one
20:46
Speaker 2: ETF that tracks.
20:48
Speaker 1: They want to go long Grease yeah or I guess but.
20:51
Speaker 2: Actually funny enough, Corgi filed for one of course. Yeah,
20:54
Speaker 2: Eric mess that it's got a nice ring to it.
20:58
Speaker 2: Grease ETF totally but yeah, it's it's been doing really well,
21:02
Speaker 2: so they've really climbed out of this really battle that
21:04
Speaker 2: they were in. Athan, thanks for joining on Trillions. Yeah,
21:07
Speaker 2: thanks for having me on. This is fun.
21:13
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Trillions. Until next time. You can
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Speaker 1: produced by Magnus Hendrickson and Kishov Pundia. Amy Keen is
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