Latest / Empower Your Menopause / Episode 25: Collagen, Confidence & Clarity with Jennifer Mo

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Episode 25: Collagen, Confidence & Clarity with Jennifer Mo · Empower Your Menopause

0:12
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast where we take the mystery and sometimes even the misery out of the menopause transition.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: It's James Ellis here, nutritionist and health coach.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And as always, I'm joined by my fabulous fellow health coaching nutritionist, Julie Medesi.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Hi Julie.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Hey James, and hi to all of our listeners.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: We're so excited to have you back for a really special episode.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: This is our 25th episode.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: I can't believe it.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Can you already?
0:41
SPEAKER_02: 25 episodes where we get to help women in the menopause transition, gaining more confidence and clarity.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty exciting, eh?
0:49
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: And you know, time flies when you're talking about hormones, hot flashes, and how to reclaim your energy.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Today we've got somebody with us who's, I think it's going to be an absolute treat.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Our guest is none other than Jennifer Moe.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer is the co-founder of a company called Purecollagen.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: And she joined us earlier this year in our Club Fibrous Beyond 40 membership group to do a talk to the members there.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: And we had such a fantastic response to that episode that we just had to get a back on to a wider audience via the podcast.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And so we're really excited to be able to welcome Jennifer back here today.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: She's a powerhouse of knowledge and information.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: And not only has she built an award-winning business, but she's also got personal, uh, personal menopause story that is extremely relatable.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and she's going to share a lot of interesting ways that that collagen can help throughout menopause, everything from your joints to your skin to your general vitality, really.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so grab a cup of tea, whether it's herbal or something else, or water, or something stronger if that's your vibe today, and settle in for an episode that is full of insight, inspiration, and a few laughs along the way.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it and bring Jennifer on.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: So, welcome, Jennifer.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Before we start our conversation, I know congratulations are in order because I follow you on Instagram and I saw the news of your recent engagement.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: That must be a really exciting time for you and your partner.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a it's a good lesson that you know there's lots of curveballs in our journey through this great wonderful life.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so happiness can come at any stage on that.
2:33
unknown: Yeah.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And I take it when you say curveball, it's a positive um move.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: This one is a positive one, yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: This one is a positive one.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I wonder if we could start off.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's really important to give some context to listeners.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Would you mind sharing a little bit about your own menopause experience?
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I know it's informed some of the things that you've um done when it's come to Pura, etc.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: So, how does it shape your views on health and wellness?
3:05
SPEAKER_01: I think um I kind of um I was definitely an early uh stage perimenopause person.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: So um, and that came coupled at a time where we were about to head into the pandemic.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: So I started to encounter symptoms that didn't feel normal to me in my, you know, kind of active and professional and travel life.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: I was starting to have difficulties sleeping, I was having some brain fog, I was experiencing joint pain, and I'm quite an active person.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: And none of them really made any sense to me.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, what I found was as a scientist, I go straight to looking for evidence.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I want evidence of what's happening.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: And I so I went to a GP and I wanted my blood tested because I had a theory that this might be early stages of um perimenopause.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: And I was, I was um kind of addressed in a way that I was being silly, that this is I was too young to be having these experiences, that there was absolutely nothing wrong.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: They didn't want to run my blood work because they said it could change uh any given day.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't going to give any kind of answer to what was happening.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I set off trying to find these answers for myself, which I think many, many women go through.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went to the internet, I went to the bookstore, I kind of gathered as much knowledge as I could.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: And by the time we had come out of the pandemic and I had decided to go to a private doctor to really get a handle, because I wanted to see the data.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: That's that's part of being who me, who I am.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: But um, by the time I had gotten there, all of my hormonal um tests, both through my blood, uh, multiple saliva tests, so on and so forth, were all that I was already post-menopause.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I had zero estrogen in my body.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So I was essentially functioning on a very little bit of progesterone and some testosterone.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And that was about it.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: So that, you know, you can look at that and go, gosh, that was a really confusing time, or that was a negative time.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: But actually, as you said, James, that led me on my path to creating Pura because I knew from a natural world and some substance world that there were ways I could address the symptoms I was going through and take control of that again for myself.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's exactly what led me to creating my brand.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Many women feel unprepared by this sort of like stage of life.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: And I suppose it must have been a big surprise for you when you did those tests and you finally got somebody to listen to you and you saw that your oason was on the floor.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Was there anything else that sort of like surprised you about your own journey or what you found out during that period?
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think as the type of person that I am, um I didn't want to hand over that something else could be controlling my life.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I just thought if I work out and if I eat well and if I do all these things, I could somehow escape this thing.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, that there was nothing that was going to take hold of me and control my life.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And I've been that, you know, from uh, you know, being a young athlete in America, being told to get up and walk it off.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: It was like I had this get up and walk it off attitude that I could manage menopause that way, which is bonkers now that I'm, you know, several years into it.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I'll be 52 in gosh, like three weeks' time now.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I think that was the hardest thing for me to go, you don't have any control um or a playbook to look at and say, this is how I'm going to get through this stage.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Because every day was different.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Every moment, some days I felt great and had loads of energy, and some days I didn't.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Some days I was confident, some days I was questioning everything I was doing.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And it was really for me the lack of control and not, and especially on the supplement side as well.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: And I've spent my career in this space, there wasn't just a one thing that could fix it.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Like I there wasn't one area I could turn to and address, you know, as we now know in the UK, um, you know, the evidence base that there's 48 documented symptoms.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: How are you going to make something that covers 48 symptoms?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: So I think that was the hardest wake-up moment for me through my journey.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of women are dealing with so many different symptoms and up and downs.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: And it's not the same for any two women across the board.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: So just curious if you could go back and give your pre-menopause self some advice, like one piece of advice.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: What would what would it be?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's listen to your body.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: It, you know, every day is going to be different.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: And you, you know, I think we read in a lot of literature um that there are m this might help X or this might help Y.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: But I think if you are thinking, I'm going to take a substance or I'm going to take HRT or I'm going to have this one thing and it's going to address everything, the it, you know, the reality is it isn't.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And so if we stop looking for a one-stop shop and realize that we're we are holistic beings, we are have lots of different facets to our lives, and that that journey through menopause is also going to have lots of different facets to it.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you what worked for you one week maybe isn't going to work for you three weeks from now.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: With your background.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: I remember sorry, go ahead, Julie.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: I was just going to say, I remember from your when you spoke to our club Fabulous Beyond 40, um, that you were talking about your your career.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just curious because I know you were in sports nutrition and you have been working abroad for a long time.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: How did that prepare you for co-founding Pura Collagen?
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, again, it was, I think with the way Pura came about, it was uh many things happened at the same time to make this a moment.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Um I reflect, you know, the pandemic was horrible, it was horrible for my own family.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: And I have parents living in the US, and I was in the UK, and the children and I were on our own.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but equally we couldn't get to the US to help my parents, who both got very sick.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: So it was a really isolating, um scary time.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: And the company that I had been with right before lockdown had just sold in the US.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: So my job was also about to transition and go away.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was inter I knew it was coming, so I was interviewing for a few other things, but um all of this kind of unrest happened all at the same time.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going through perimenopause at that time, and I'm a you know separated person.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: So I was, it was a really scary, unknown space.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: And again, that kind of need to gain control over things is really what was the starting point for Pura.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: I all of a sudden was on, you know, video screens and FaceTime and talking to people because you weren't seeing people in person.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: And I it was a funny moment.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: I remember kind of the 50th time like looking back at myself on a screen, going, Oh my gosh, do I really look like that?
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Because we never stared at ourselves so much.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Um and thinking, wow, I've really changed because I'm also not seeing anyone.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm not having a check-in, I'm not needing to go upstairs and get ready to go out.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm so I was looking at my skin and going, wow, that's really change.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had been doing, I had been a real lover of the collagen space, but in the capacity of where I had worked before, we worked with different types of proteins, and collagen was not one of them.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So I was a personal supplement choice that I was taking because I am sitting behind the scenes seeing all this amazing evidence coming out.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, just to break it down, collagen is the body's most abundant protein.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's so important.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: It's like the scaffolding in our body.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: But as we age, it declines in production.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: But also for women, as our estrogen declines, so does our collagen accelerate in that decline.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: So we start losing it and it has multiple effects throughout the body from everything about, you know, what you may, most people, I think uh the last time we spoke knew is how it affected your skin, your hair, your nails.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: But actually, it affects everything from digestion to the way you sleep to, you know, the structure of your bones.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So it touches so many important parts of the body.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And it was something as I was aging, I knew I wanted to incorporate into my lifestyle.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: And during that really scary moment in time with all those different things happening in my life, I went back to what's comforting to me.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: And what's comforting to me is science and creating.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: And so by the kind of end of the first lockdown, I had formulated, I think, about 30 products, which I think was a bit of mania.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was a safe space for me because I could look at evidence-based work and I could look at ingredients, and then I was thinking about how they interacted with one another.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: And that felt sure, that was stable.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: So I took that kind of fear and what felt unknown and put it back into what's always been comforting to me, which is science.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: So that was really I know.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: I I know collagen, you know, we talk all the time about how people take it for skin and and beauty purposes, basically.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: But can you talk a little more about its maybe lesser known benefits and menopause?
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: I think around the body, uh, the body creates collagen in different cells.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, these aren't just one cell called a collagen engine that is making it throughout your body.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: In different um parts of the body, it's a different cell.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: So, in our skin, for instance, our skin, and I would say your extracellular matrix is 80% collagen.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: So, if you can think about that, so that's a visual impact.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: As you make less, you have a visual impact of that change, which is what we see with you know, our hair changing or our nails become brittle, or we start to see fine lines, so on and so forth.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So that concentration, um, that collagen is made by a cell called fibroblasts.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: So fibroblasts need to be stimulated in order to make collagen, and they're in abundance of doing that job in our in our mid-20s.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think if we think about our mid-20s, we all looked really great, we felt great, you know, we could kind of go out and do things and we didn't need to recover.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's when your body was in that abundant state of collagen.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And the way I look at it, you know, I don't talk about lifespan, I talk about health span.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I think about how I want to look, feel, move, age.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Age is natural.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: I think I've said it on your uh to your groups before.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: The worst word you could say in my office or anywhere near me is anti-aging, because I think that's such a horrible context to think about the way we are evolving, you know, throughout our life.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted this positive approach.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I thought about all the concentrations around the body.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: We talked about skin.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: So our bones, again, about 60% is collagen, our tendon, our ligament, our fascia, really high concentrations, our entire intestinal lining of our digestive tract is collagen, um, our ocular cavity around our eyes.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: So just about every area of the body has this real high concentration, which just slows down as we age.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: So if we can supplement, we can help that production um kick back into gear.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: And I think when I talk specifically, I deal with James as a distance runner, and I talk to a lot of athletes.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: One of the places so we can see it in our skin, but I think the very next one is our joints.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden, it just doesn't feel right.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: We're not performing or we're not recovering correctly.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's one where I get a lot of menopausal women saying to me, All of a sudden, my knees hurt or my back hurts, or um, and that's to me, I don't I don't like it in a sense that I want anyone to not feel great, but I like it because I know there's a fix to that.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely know there's a fix to that.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: So again, when I developed flex, it was, you know, flex is, you know, a powdered supplement.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: It was to address the whole of the joint tissue, not just one part, because I think what was happening out in the consumer space is it's very easy to make uh natural products or supplements that are anti-inflammatory.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So they take that inflammation away, which is good, but inflammation in joints is there for a reason, and that is to probably just get you to stop moving it because there's an issue.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: So, what we need to do, if we're talking about joints, for instance, we need to heal the tissue in order to heal the problems.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's really the whole approach with collagen.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: It's address the collagen-related store and hopefully the body self-corrects itself.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it's even our immune system, it fuels our bone marrow tissue, which fuels our uh T cell production.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's just so crucial.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: And as we age, it's natural to make less, but it's also if we look at a lot of age-related um complications or concerns, a lot of them could be, you know, corrected in this way.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's really why I did the range.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: And I did the range specifically to target different areas, because as I said, we've got fibroblasts in our skin, but we have osteoclasts and osteoblasts in our bone.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: We have, you know, so it the matrix changes depending on where it is in the body.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: So for the benefit of anybody who's watching on YouTube, we've just lost Julie.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was just asking Jennifer before Julie ducked out about the 30 different formulas that she came up with.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: So I just wonder if you could talk about that again, please, Jennifer.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I wasn't allowed in the lab, and nobody wasn't nobody was in a lab at that time.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I formulated on on paper on Excel um putting together off of the evidence-based work that was being used in clinical trials, not necessarily with the blends that I was making, but they were in, I was looking up every individual clinical trial on every single ingredient, and then putting together a formulation based on that clinical evidence at the efficacious dosage, which is really key in my world.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: You can see wonderful claims about a product, but that claim is based on a certain amount of that ingredient.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, all too often, that amount that was used in that clinical study is not the amount that you are able to purchase in an over-the-counter product.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: So I went to the science, I built the most, you know, the wonder, most wonderful formulation I could build.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Then I would send that off to a lab with the raw material.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: They would blend that for me, and then they would send it back to me.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was doing all of this without kind of being in a lab myself.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, flex, so we talked about earlier, is a perfect example of that.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I did an amazing formula, but I wanted to keep on the collagen side of things, I wanted to keep them all powder-based because I didn't want any interruption in digestion.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: So, what I mean by that is collagen raw material starts as a fine wine, a fine white powder.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And anything we do to that powder, whether we make it into a liquid, which I'm sure lots of your um subscribers have heard, you know, or seen liquid collagens, they've seen gummies or capsules.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: Anything we do to that powder takes it a step away and a step away from its original state.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: So I felt really passionate.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: I wanted Pura to stay powdered based, but I was using an ingredient in Flex, which I love, but it does not have a great user experience.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: It has a bit of an odor and it definitely has a bit of a taste.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And no matter how much I worked on it, I could not get that ingredient to work in the formula that I was making with Flex.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: And I what I had to do with myself is go, okay, what's the hero here?
21:06
SPEAKER_01: The hero were the two collagen peptides.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And as much as I love that other ingredient, it wasn't necessary to putting out an amazing product that still hadn't ever been out on the market before, anyway.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: So there were lots of funny moments of compromise when you're looking at empirical data and then getting a real-world example of what is actually going to go to the customer.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And is the customer gonna use this every day?
21:37
SPEAKER_01: Which is the crucial part.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if a person's buying pure collagen or any other collagen.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: You have to take it every day for it to do its job.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: And so my point when I started blending work was oh my gosh, you know, I'm used to taking things that taste terrible.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: But is my mom gonna put that in her coffee?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: No way.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So I really had to think about that user experience, was which as a scientist was not something I ever really considered.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: I just thought it's good for you, take it.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's different about the commercial world.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, they were 30 different formulas on Excel.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And I really like they were everything from I had effervescent tablets.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about, you know, there's lots of people out there who can't swallow well.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Would this be easier?
22:27
SPEAKER_01: So I was just kind of in this real manic moment of creating, um, which in the end I launched two products.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: So if that tells you anything about what really works, um, it went from 30 to two.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to know, you've worked in the supplement industry for a long time, and I've prescribed supplements to clients for a long time.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of conflicting information out there and some negative talk around supplementation in general, but I think particularly around the collagen industry.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: What do you say to skeptics about the benefits of collagen, given that you've researched this from an obviously really high-level scientific point of view?
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I I mean, I am the dinner party guest who gets put on the spot probably the most.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, the banker never gets put on the spot, but the person who does supplements always does.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: And you know, people have this attitude of, you know, well, prove to me that this works.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: And I my counter to that is always, well, I don't actually have to prove it to you because I have clinical data.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: So we have scientific proof.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: I think where the gap is with the consumer is that the clinical studies that are done around collagen and collagen peptides rarely make it to the consumer.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, the, you know, the raw material manufacturers who produce this collagen are the ones who do the clinical work.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: And the headlines are always taken from those studies.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: So all the benefits you've heard about collagen are taken from those studies.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that that collagen supplement is actually using that raw material.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: And this was the departure for me.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And this was the other puzzle piece with Pura was that when I looked at what was available in the UK market, I was not engineering the Pura blends in the beginning for as a commercial product.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: I was doing it for myself.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: So I was looking at this data and then looking for products to buy, and I couldn't find them.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but there's very clear what they used and why isn't it here?
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So that was really another aha moment where I went, most people aren't looking much past this will help your hair look wonderful.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I don't know how we can help that.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I will say to the consumer is one of the good things about the UK and Europe is the laws around packaging and what you can say on PAC and claims is very strict.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: It is way stricter than in the US.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and in other parts of the world, you know, there's very little um kind of consumer safety around claims.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: So we we are in the UK and Europe in the strictest rulebook.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: And what I do say to consumers is if a product has been marketed to you on social media or on a website and it says it can do everything under the sun that's gonna just make you feel and look great and fix all your problems.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: When you buy that product and you look at the packaging, if it doesn't say that on the packaging, the reason it doesn't say it is because it cannot clinically back up the claim.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So when I designed Pura, one of the things I really thought about was the packaging.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted the front to be what's called the billboard.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: And if this is sitting on a shelf in Holland and Barrett or in Boots, I'm not standing next to it to talk to people.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And I think they would be very grateful for that because they would end up there for 25 minutes.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not there to do that job.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I need this to talk to the consumer as they're, you know, looking at it, and hopefully then they pick it up.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: So everything that we say on our marketing and our social marketing is directly correlated to what we can say on our packaging.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: And so, if anything, I would say the the one thing that a consumer can empower themselves with is read that label.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: And if what you saw on the social media feed doesn't match what it says on that label, the disconnect is that the ingredients in it cannot make that claim.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, we we do make a lot of those recommendations for our clients, whether it's food or supplements or anything else they're interested in.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: Read the label, educate yourself, make sure you know what it is you're putting into your body.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: It's so important.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: So I I'm curious um, is there an optimal age or stage of menopause to start taking collagen to get the maximum benefit?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Collagen's a really interesting um substance in the sense that it's in its basic form.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: I think we think of it as something fancy because it has a different word, but in its basic form, it's a protein, it's a protein molecule.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: And just like protein use in our bodies, you know, I was reading a recent study about um how much protein I should be getting in my diet, and it was double what I had been benchmarking against.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: So I think so many factors lead to when and and how much and and frequency.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I would say we start producing less in our mid-20s.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: And so there is an argument that you could even start your journey sooner.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Um there's factors like um wear and tear from sport and exercise, um, environmental factors like sun damage, uh, pollution, all sorts of things, quality of diet.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Um there's all sorts of reasons that you might want to supplement sooner.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Um and then also I think my approach to supplementation in general is I don't look at it supplementation as a I feel this hurt in my knee or this pain in my knee.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: So now I'm gonna try to find something to fix it.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: I take products around me so that I never get to the point where there's gonna be pain in my knee.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: So I have a I lived in Southeast Asia for a number of years and worked there, and I was so grateful for that time because what I learned about uh the approach to looking after yourself when I lived in China and Singapore and Hong Kong was that it's uh there's a preventative nature.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Everyone is doing things so that they don't have something happen um in their later years.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: So for me, I started taking collagen actually as an athlete, probably in my mid-30s, because I had a lot of wear and tear and I was in pain.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that collagen was going to help me because I was looking at that data.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Um but certainly for any woman uh going through menopause, the minute you get there, so by our our our evidence shows that by our 40s, we've lost about a third of our body's total ability to produce collagen.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then as we hit menopause, that accelerates.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: So by the time you're 50, you could have lost about half of your body's ability to make it.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was a sooner get on the train, you know, kind of in my 30s.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: But equally, it's something that I would say almost like an approach to, you know, as basic as making a smoothie or taking a multivitamin.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: It's part of my daily routine, and it's also part of the daily routine that I will extend throughout my life.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, my parents are um approaching 80, they're taking collagen.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so there isn't a time.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't really think that there's a time where you're gonna go, should I be taking it or should I stop taking it?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: For me, it was this is a staple, and I know it's so important to my overall health span that it's just something I've incorporated into my daily life.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: You've told us quite a bit about flex, Jennifer.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if you'd mind just telling listeners what are the other formulas you have, which are the ones that made it out of that Excel spreadsheet of 30 or so that you had and are actually on the shelves.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other thing is you shared a little bit before about how different types of collagen speak to different parts of the body and therefore there are different formulations.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: How does it work then if you're as a supplementary question, if you're trying to blend two of those aims with two different collagen powders, and then finally, how does that work if you're also taking a protein powder like many people people do?
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Is there I guess the the shorter version of that question is is there a danger of taking too much if you've got all this coming in at once?
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it always goes back to that kind of clinical research.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: So we know how much of a certain peptide affected a desired change.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: So um flex, we spoke about glow, um, was flex and glow were the first two products I designed because they were the areas of concentration that were the highest in the body.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: I consider them what I call the foundation products.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, we know 80% of our skin's protein is collagen.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: So that's one that when we start making less, we're definitely going to see a difference.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: And equally with our joints, I was an athlete, so I needed to kind of keep that tissue functional.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously, movement is so important to our lives in general.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: So when we look at those, I knew exactly how much of that peptide needed to create an effect.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: So with um glow, I use a peptide called Verisol, and I can clinically say this makes a change in your appearance within four to six weeks because that's based on data.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, what I like to explain to people is that because collagen is just a protein molecule, we don't have to think about it as this scary thing, or can I take too much or too little?
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I would say dosages from for my range, dosages are based on science.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: So I put the amount that is needed to effect a change.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, when I shop and see things that are 20 grams of protein, I always say to my team, it's like um, if you've seen the film Something About Mary, and he encounters this guy who's a little bit um off-kilter, and he says, he's invent he's invented something called, he's like, You've heard about seven-minute abs.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I invented six-minute abs, you know, because six-minute abs is better than seven-minute abs.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: And I I often, when I walk down a collagen aisle, I often see these, you know, 11 grams and then 20 grams.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: And it is this like six-minute abs moment where you're just like, just chucking more in doesn't mean that it's better.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that is this some of these amounts that are out there are artificially inflated for no reason.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: So with Pura, we based it on the clinical data.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And because the peptides are, so they're bioactive peptides, that that means that they've gone through some hydrolyzation, which makes the molecule small enough to digest.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: And then we go that little bit step further where it goes through a patented enzymatic process to separate out those peptides to target specific tissue.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Um and unfortunately, that's a patented process, so I can't share much about it other than then it was it was awarded that patent because it could clinically back up what the work was doing.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: So we've separated out the peptides so that they're affecting the specific tissues.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you look at flex, for instance, you know, a serving of flex is going to give you about nine grams of protein.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: So taking flex in your smoothie but having glow in your coffee is still only giving you maybe another nine at any given time.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: So if you look out throughout your day, if you were to have a typical, you know, breakfast with eggs and maybe some uh other, you know, protein sources, you're looking at around 30 to 40 grams of protein in that one setting.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: So there isn't uh a documented toxicity level with collagen.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I've never come across any data that says that there was an upper limit or that there was an adverse effect.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: What I would say is the adverse effect would be on your wallet because we know collagen isn't is is, you know, it is um it's an investment, you know, in your health.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: So what I would say to people is make sure you're spending it wisely.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Make sure you're taking a product that works for you.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: And when I say works for you, not only is it uh effective, but also is it something you are taking every day, because that's the key.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and so if you're making that investment, make sure you're you're taking the best thing for you.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: At any given time, uh, I'm probably on four to sometimes five different Pura products.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: We have a product called Sleep, um, which is one of my favorites, and it was one of my first steps into flavor, but very complicated to make a flavored, powdered product with that you wanted to taste indulgent, but didn't want any sugar or dairy, and it still needed to have this great experience.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: So this one actually took me 27 attempts.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, sometimes I have sleep issues.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: I've been traveling a lot, so I will dip into sleep, or we have an immunity product, which sometimes I'm feeling run down, or the kids have brought every germ home from school, and you know, I'm taking that.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I take flex and glow every day.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: They're they're just the two foundation products that I believe, you know, I need for myself.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: And then I also developed a menopausal-specific range, uh, sorry, blend called balance, uh, anchored in a peptide that can only feed that bone tissue.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: So it's preserving the bone you have and also helping you grow new bone cells, which for women going through menopause, 85% of us will develop osteoporosis.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: And I felt so passionate about a lot of the menopause messaging was around what you feel.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: And this is like a silent danger.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I anchored balance in Fortebone and then built a herbal kind of beautiful remedy around that that addressed some of the other symptoms.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: So I take balance every day and I take flexing galow every day, and then I dip in and out of sleep and protect when I feel I need it.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: But there's no upper limit.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: This is four grams of protein, the other two are around nine and a half.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: So, one last question for me Beyond collagen, um knowing what you know and having the uh extensive background you do, what what other lifestyle or dietary changes would you recommend to support health during menopause, like that that complement the collagen really well?
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I think a big change for me, um, especially being uh kind of a young female coming out of Southern California.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: I think my earlier thoughts around health were around thinness.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I was so focused on staying thin or my physique.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And what's really changed is, you know, with all that knowledge and all those you know years spent studying things and being an athlete, I would still look at myself and go, am I skinny enough?
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got to be in the weight room, but you know, and I I really hate that for women.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: And I I I have two teenage daughters that I'm very conscious about that for them.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what I've taken now into my lifestyle is strength.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm so focused on being strong throughout menopause.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so the way I train, I could care less if I've, you know, done X amount uh, you know, hours of cardio or this or that.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: But what I do focus on is did I get into the gym and and really challenge my muscle tissue?
39:26
SPEAKER_01: So that skeletal muscle, I'm really focused on.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I talked a little bit earlier.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Protein is such an important piece, I think, for women as we age as well.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really focused on making sure I maximize when I eat, I think about the nutrients I need and not necessarily what's on a plate that's gonna taste great.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I am that little bit strange, but I think if you're going to have an occasion where you're fueling your body, think about what components you need.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: And for me, protein is just an area I think women get too little of in general, but we certainly need it a lot more as we go through menopause.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's you know, giving yourself that kind of allocation of time to move, to challenge your muscle, to supplement.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: And I don't take a lot of supplements, I take Pura.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and on occasion I'll take a hydration um preparation, a tablet or a powder just based on what the way I'm training at that time, or if I've been, you know, doing things that I'm not staying well hydrated.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then keeping sure, keeping track of my protein.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: That's that's really it.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm really fortunate.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's just my genetic makeup, but I cannot recall really being sick in the last 10 years.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, other than COVID, I did get COVID, but I don't tend to get sick.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't tend to get the snivels and the things that the children bring home.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm on the tube and the train and airplanes probably 10 to 15 times a month.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So there's something about the way I guess I'm protecting myself without um really overdoing it with any particular um substance that seems to be working for me.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: So I would say kind of navigating menopause, and that was the real challenge was okay, my body isn't necessarily going to perform um the way that I expected it to, but I think the things I've incorporated into my way of life have worked for my journey, and I feel pretty great every day.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: The final question for me, Jennifer.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: You're a scientist, you're a mum of two girls, you've got a busy growing company that you you manage, and you've now got a wedding to plan with your fiance as well, on top of everything else.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And you get gym and do your workouts.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that most of our clients and our listeners tend to struggle with is this concept of not being able to fit enough in.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: They they just don't have any time, they can't expand the day and add more hours.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you actually manage things from a time point of view and retain your sanity, retain the time to do have some downtime, all that kind of stuff?
42:26
SPEAKER_00: How does that actually work for you?
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you there are you kind of put things in place and then they have to change.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I struggle with is I I mentally beat myself up for that you didn't get to that or you didn't do that.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: So I'm I am in a much better place, I think, when I got to my 50s of trying to give myself a bit of grace around all the things I have to do in a day.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've also been I've learned to change things.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: So for instance, my daughters, um they're both rowers.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: And so they row a little bit further away from where we live.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: And my gym was close to where I lived.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: And I found that because they come home from school and then I'm taking them to training six days a week, I wasn't getting to the gym because it was impossible to do my work day and then help them get to practice.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: So I almost kicked myself.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: One day I realized that there was this wonderful training center about a minute down the road from where the girls go to rowing.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: So I just went, oh, I'm sitting here in Marlowe.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: I might as well train while I'm waiting.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: So little micro movements to help you get those things achieved.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: So rather than sitting in my car or walking around the town, I go and go to the gym while they're at training.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: So I can match those two things up.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Um and I re I have to read before I fall asleep.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: It's part of my kind of go to bed retrograde.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I like reading scientific stuff.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: I read studies.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: So I do a lot of the prep um of thinking about how I would design and develop product.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of that before I go to bed.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of my way to unwind.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: But then it frees up a little bit of space in the day.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, you just you have to make micro movements around what's expected of you and what you can achieve.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: And then you also have to give yourself a little bit of grace when you don't get it all and you don't do it all.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Um and that's, I think that is something for me that came with age.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: I think I I had to realize that everything was changing.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: The way you parent changes, the way my business and my career was going changed.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: And then with then all of a sudden my body changed.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: So each of those required me to change up how I did things.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: And and I do that, you know, and going into Christmas, I've really said, you know what, you're not going to be able to achieve this all the time, or you're not going to be able to eat this way all the time, or do that workout because there's a social gathering.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And I just let it go.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: I just let it go.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: And I know that I'll be back on track or I'll make a change in January.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: But equally, I've there's a few other just with travel, I take um resistance bands with me now because I might be staying at a hotel that doesn't have a gym.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: And even if I sit at my desk, I can put resistance bands around the bottom of my leg and I can do abductor and you know, I can, I can do things.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: So I find if I get little snippets of like 10 or 15 minutes, I'll just quickly do, you know, a hundred push-ups or, you know, some squats just in the middle of my day just to kind of keep movement in.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, you just find you find your little pockets.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: But it is challenging.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: And you, I think that is the hardest thing for women is we have a lot of load, you know, a mental load.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: It's the household, it's our careers, it's how we're feeling.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the not beating yourself up about not getting everything done is probably one of the harder things.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer, thank you so much for gracing you with your presence again.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: We love talking to you.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: We could stay on for for hours, but we realize you've got other things to do, and maybe our listeners do too.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: I've got a meeting in 15.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: But thanks ever so much, Jennifer.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: We love you.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: We love Pura.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Where can people go to find out more about PuraCollagen?
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so come to puricollagen.co.uk.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: Our website is um robust, and we have all of our studies on there as well.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: So you can read the clinicals if you want to.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're on all the usual socials as well.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we love hearing from everybody.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you have questions, let us know and we're happy to answer them.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Thanks ever so much.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Just want to say a huge thank you to Jennifer Moe for sharing her story and giving us so much really good information and practical advice and taking sciencey stuff and making it understandable, especially to see how all this can help us during menopause.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: I think we can all agree that that was a pretty amazing episode.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: And before we go, we want to leave you with a couple of ways that you can take some action to make 2025 your absolute best year yet.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, first up, we're hosting a special goal setting workshop on December 27th.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: Now, before you roll your eyes about goal setting, it is actually going to be really exciting.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: This is a perfect time to set after the holidays and start focusing on what you want to achieve in the new year.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: So this isn't just us talking about goals.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: We're going to guide you through creating realistic and meaningful health goals so that um you can stay consistent.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: We'll share our best strategies for doing that.
48:01
SPEAKER_02: And we're going to do our best to set you up for success in 2025.
48:05
SPEAKER_02: You can sign up at goals.fabulousbeyond40.com.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: And of course, we'll put that link in the show notes.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you're one of those people who's catching this episode after December 27th, first of all, my question is why?
48:17
SPEAKER_00: But if you've done that anyway, don't worry.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: You can still find ways to work with us to set yourself a goal for next year.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: We offer a free introductory call where we help you find clarity on your health and fitness journey through the menopause transition.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: It's a no-pressure chat designed to give you some real actionable insights and support you need to be able to thrive.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: So you can jump on to freecall.fiblessbeyond40.com, select whether you prefer to speak to me or whether you prefer to speak to Julie.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: Neither of us will be offended if you choose the other one.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: And um you can just pop on there, check it against your diary, choose a time and book in.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's freecall.fiblessbeyond40.com.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: And again, we'll put that in the show notes too.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Terrific.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: I think that's all for now.
49:03
SPEAKER_02: So I if you enjoyed today's episode, of course, please don't forget to scribe, leave us, subscribe, leave us a review, and share with a friend who maybe could use this kind of menopause mojo to help them through the transition themselves.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: So until then, it's James and Julie saying stay strong and stay fabulous.