Latest / Dam Parenting / The Word They Used to Silence Women — And How We're Taking It Back

Transcript

The Word They Used to Silence Women — And How We're Taking It Back · Dam Parenting

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Hey everyone, this is another episode from your favorite
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podcast, Dan Parenting podcast, the English speaking parenting
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podcast from Amsterdam. And while we are on a little
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short summer break, we digged into our archives to bring you
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back the most listened to shared and downloaded episode from our
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big library of knowledge. And today's episode is episode
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15 where we were talking to Harriet, who is a postpartum and
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she was pregnant at the time and shared her postpartum
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preparation, a doulas map to the first six weeks.
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We really sat down with Harriet and got all the knowledge from
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her professional background as postpartum doula while she
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prepared for her postpartum period the first six weeks after
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giving birth to her child. So if you are on that journey
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permanently or if you have been on the journey and maybe you
0:56
want to look back and see, oh, this is what I should have done.
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This is what I could have done differently.
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Or if you're in the midst of the preparation for these six weeks
1:05
after the big event of giving birth to your child, then maybe
1:09
you can get some tips and tricks from Harriet to implement into
1:12
your postpartum plan. And if you want to hear also how
1:16
this all laid out for Harriet, she actually came back on
1:19
episode 50 back with us and shared her experience after the
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first three months of becoming a mother and being a mother and
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how her preparation helped her getting through these first six
1:32
weeks. So if you want to listen back to
1:35
that, that is episode 50 where she explains how her postpartum
1:39
preparation really helped her surviving in the first couple of
1:43
weeks. And if you want to get
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inspiration, then this is the episode how to prepare for that
1:47
crucial time period. If you want to hear more from
1:50
us, you know, every Wednesday, every Monday, we're coming up
1:52
with an episode. If you want to support us, you
1:54
can subscribe to us on Apple podcast, YouTube, Spotify or
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wherever you get your podcast from.
2:00
Make sure to like, subscribe and share this episode with other
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parents who might want to hear about this piece of information.
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We are also an Instagram damn parenting podcast.
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This is the easiest way to get in touch with us or to look into
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our notes of each episode where we condensed the most important
2:18
knowledge, the most important facts from each episode on a
2:21
little CHEAT SHEET for you. And you can also see who's going
2:24
to be on as a guest for the next week.
2:26
So hopefully you enjoy re listening to this or listening
2:30
to this episode for the first time and we will hear you very,
2:33
very soon. Hi everyone, and welcome back to
2:43
Damn Parenting, your English speaking parenting podcast from
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Amsterdam. And as you know, we are your
2:49
hosts, Marin and. Eva.
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If you have been listening to our past episodes, you know that
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we, in the first batch of episodes that we released,
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covered the whole first trimester topics.
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Then we started exploring different professions within the
3:05
Dutch healthcare systems regarding to birth and maternal
3:09
care. And now we want to tackle a new
3:12
topic, which is the postpartum period.
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And we thought to open up this new chapter which we will have
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several episodes falling under. We had a chat with Harriet, who
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is a postpartum doula and currently also pregnant herself.
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So it was very, we had a very lovely chat about her personal
3:31
preparations for the postpartum period.
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What are the things to look out for?
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What are the conversations to have with whom and what are the
3:43
boundaries that you might consider to put up and draw?
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And also how to yeah, generally stick up for yourself and for
3:52
your new family and for your newborn baby in this very
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intimate but also vulnerable time?
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She gave us some good practical tips that she will ply in her
4:03
own postpartum period. Also, she shared some knowledge
4:07
that she had gained over the last couple of years in the work
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with her clients and she gave us some examples from that.
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So we had a really interesting chat with her about this whole
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very special time, which is the first six weeks after you had
4:21
your baby. And it was very interesting for
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Eva and I to hear this because when we had our babies, it was
4:28
COVID, so we didn't have to have a lot of these conversations and
4:33
worries and thoughts about this first period because we were not
4:35
allowed to see anyone. So we were like hermited in our
4:39
little bubble, which also bared its own challenges.
4:42
But now the times are changed again.
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Luckily, we thought that parents who are in this time right now
4:50
might need this help and guidance to prepare a little
4:53
better for their postpartum experience.
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And either if you're a first time parent now or if you're
4:59
like us, had your first child during COVID and now pregnant
5:02
with the second one or planning a second one, this could also be
5:05
informative for you then as well.
5:07
Anything to add from your side, Eva?
5:09
How was your experience with this whole first six weeks
5:13
COVID? Well, I was sick as always.
5:16
Yeah, as always. I'm going through a massive
5:19
struggle with breastfeeding and pumping and trying to get milk.
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So I think I just didn't even notice time passing.
5:26
Six weeks, kind of, you know, you're just fighting your own
5:29
fight and, you know, you don't think of anything outside that
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bubble. So I was just blessed, I guess,
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to have that COVID moment to be kind of able to just focus on
5:38
what I needed to focus on. Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
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And I, I guess this is big topic for us experts, families that we
5:46
had this discussion with my in laws who said they're going to
5:50
book their flights two weeks after the due dates and then
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they're going to come and they're going to be there.
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And first of all, I said, well, she's not going to come on her
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due date, right, 'cause we know, I think 3% of babies are born
6:01
under her due date. So I said that's like a
6:03
fantastical date that's made-up. So let's not measure, like,
6:09
let's not take this as a measurement of for a two week
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count. I can let you know when the
6:13
baby's there and then we can maybe discuss.
6:16
But I even felt not comfortable with that 'cause I thought I
6:19
really want to have more time because I, I said, I don't know
6:23
what's going to happen. I don't know how the earth is
6:25
going to go. I don't know how I'm going to
6:26
feel. I don't know how my husband's
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going to feel. What what's happening.
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I, I cannot plan. We're going to be ready after
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two weeks. So it was, and then it went kind
6:34
of back and forth, back and forth.
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And they were really pushing like, oh, we, we really want to
6:38
book these tickets. And then, yeah, COVID happened
6:41
and that conversation went out the door.
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And then, I mean, sadly then they, the first time they could
6:46
come was when my child was almost one year.
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So that was the now the flip side of that, that whole
6:54
situation. But yeah, I remember that it was
6:56
very difficult for me to draw that boundary.
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And because I, I can totally understand, of course, that
7:04
they're coming with the best intentions and they wanted to
7:07
help and they wanted to be there and support us.
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And but at the same time, it just felt like, yeah, I couldn't
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handle that. You don't know what if I?
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Yeah, exactly. Because I was just, it was such
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a total mystery what is going to happen like on Pandora's Box.
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I had no idea. And so I thought I just don't
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feel comfortable planning anything.
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And that was my situation back then.
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So that was really helpful to have this conversation, to hear
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what are the things to say, how to say them, and how to be firm
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but compassionate with the other side.
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And we are delighted now to welcome.
7:47
Harriers. Hi, Harriers.
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Hi, ladies. Thanks for having me.
7:53
So happy to have you and again, we wanted to congratulate you on
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your. I mean, everyone's been doing it
7:59
for months. We know at this stage, but like
8:01
officially, officially the. 1st pregnancy.
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I know, I mean, I'm loving all the attention, I must say.
8:06
Well, I mean, you've been in the, yeah, the pregnancy realm
8:09
and the birthing realm for like a very long time now.
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So I mean, actually that's a great way to start.
8:13
How about you actually give us a little background about you, and
8:16
you can tell us actually about your background and where you
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are. Yeah, I'm Harriet.
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I'm obviously from the UKI moved to Amsterdam in 2014.
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So I've been here quite a while now, almost a decade of my life,
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and I decided it was the end of 2019.
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I was like, I want to do something with my life that has
8:36
meaning and leaves me feeling a bit fulfilled.
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I was like lacking that in my current job and I was like, OK,
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I'm just going to train to be a birth dealer and see what
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happens. So I started my birth dealer
8:48
training in right at the very beginning of 2020, like pre
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pandemic, quit my job at the end of 2020.
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And then so I've been doing this yeah, three years like full time
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now. And in that time, I've really
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transitioned away from birds. I still do birds, but I've
9:04
transitioned away from birds more into like the postpartum
9:07
realm. And I do a lot of yeah,
9:09
childcare and cooking for my clients and just general
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support, whatever people may need in the postpartum period.
9:15
Well, actually, I have to say I did reference you as a food
9:19
doula because I think earlier this year I had a client come in
9:22
and I was, she was like, oh, you know, I've already got a kid and
9:25
I'm not really sure how I meant to do this.
9:26
And I was like, I'm just going to recommend Harriet because if
9:29
you want food for nutrition for you and your family, I'm going
9:32
to recommend her like, but yeah, I was calling you a food dealer
9:34
because. It's a good, I like, I had that
9:37
on my website as well from Wild Food Dealer.
9:38
It's a good, I feel like it's a good descriptor of what I do
9:41
because I don't know why, but it is so hard to feed yourself.
9:45
Like when you're busy, that's always the first thing that when
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you're busy with work or life or whatever, it's always the first
9:50
thing that goes out the window. Like I've been working a lot
9:53
with clients recently and I just found myself coming home and
9:55
being like, oh, I don't know what to eat.
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I don't know what's in the fridge.
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I'm just going to order Domino's or whatever.
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Not you. Oh I love.
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Domino's. I haven't hate love relationship
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with Domino's but I I can I can relate to some extent, yes.
10:10
Wow, No, I, I love a bit of junk food.
10:13
I'm not ashamed. But yeah, it's, it's hard to.
10:16
And it's not just the cooking and the cleaning, it's also like
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the, the mental load of meal planning and writing grocery
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lists and shopping and all that kind of stuff.
10:24
So that's something that I really like to help clients out
10:26
with because you like nutrition is so important in the 4th
10:29
trimester and it is so, so hard. And that's what so many people
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say about their especially first time parents.
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They're like, oh, I just, I didn't have food in the house.
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I didn't know what to feed myself.
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It's so hard to have things that you can just like grab and eat.
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So I like to do a lot complete for my clients.
10:45
Well, I know they appreciate you, that's for sure.
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I think even Marin was kind of pointing out like a while ago,
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we were chatting about you like, I don't know, like last year or
10:54
something. You're like, I just want Harriet
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for like the next kid if I'm having one.
10:57
Because the food you post on your Instagram is always drill
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worthy. I always felt like I'm not
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pregnant but I wish I wish she could.
11:06
Book for me. Maybe I just need to start like
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a private chef? For service, yes, you have your
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coats already. Yeah, exactly.
11:15
Exactly. So yeah, today's the topic, as
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we said, was actually just going to be about postpartum care
11:21
because our previous episodes have been about the velos
11:24
Kuntaha, about how they're trained, about the crumbs or how
11:27
they're trained, the doula they're training and then the
11:29
gynecologist about, you know, pregnancy after 35 and
11:33
everything involved in it with care.
11:35
But we really wanted to take this topic about postpartum care
11:39
about the 4th trimester. And as you have been a
11:42
especially a postpartum duly yourself and also you're
11:45
pregnant now as well. We thought this is actually a
11:47
really good chance for us to kind of come to you as someone
11:50
who has been with so many families and you've seen
11:54
different parts and have people have delved into it themselves
11:57
and what they've been doing themselves.
11:58
And we thought it was actually a great opportunity to chat to you
12:01
about what you learn and also what you're going to bring into
12:03
your own and how you're going to do that yourself.
12:05
Because you know, you're basically going to be the one
12:08
who's learned it along your way. And now you're probably going to
12:11
know probably what's going to be best for you as well.
12:13
So that's why we wanted to talk to you as you are someone who
12:16
has couple of years experience now being in different families
12:19
that you're able to see what they've been needing and giving
12:22
you ideas that you're learning along the way.
12:24
And now, with your own pregnancy in the new year, you'll be
12:27
giving birth. You'll be able to hopefully have
12:30
your own tips for yourself and what you're going to do.
12:32
Yeah, exactly. I'm coming really coming towards
12:35
the end of my pregnancy now I'm like right in that third
12:37
trimester. So it's really on the top of my
12:40
mind all the time. Like what's it going to look
12:42
like? Which to be honest is still
12:43
quite intimidating, even though I've worked with lots of
12:46
families in the 4th trimester and I've been around a lot of
12:49
babies. I feel very confident with with
12:51
babies actually. But I feel like babies are not
12:54
the hard part of the 4th trimester, right?
12:56
It's everything going on in your own body.
12:59
It's that hormonal shift, that change of identity, your
13:03
relationship with your partner, the physical recovery from
13:07
pregnancy and birth, such a heavy topic or a heavy thing to
13:10
experience. And you're also doing that with
13:13
much less sleep than you would ordinarily get.
13:15
So I'm still a little bit, on the one hand, I feel very
13:17
confident with babies, but there's still a sense of like
13:20
nervousness because you don't really know what to expect until
13:23
you're in the throes of it. And sometimes also, I feel with
13:26
all the knowledge you have, it doesn't make it easier, right?
13:29
No, because you can. It's really different knowing
13:32
the things and doing the thing. The same with the birth.
13:35
Like, I know a lot about birth, but doing it myself, that's like
13:38
a whole the kettle of fish, yeah.
13:41
I hope it's not a kettle of fish.
13:44
I hope it's going to be a beautiful journey for you that
13:47
yeah, it's quite an experience for everyone.
13:49
One of the things for me was when you're pregnant, you've got
13:52
the pregnancy courses, you've got the birthing courses, you'll
13:55
have lactation courses, you'll have, you know, there's a lot of
13:57
different options out there. But one thing that was kind of
14:00
coming up when I was looking into this topic to chat with
14:02
with you today, are there postpartum courses?
14:05
Plenty of postpartum dealers offer particularly online
14:09
planning workshops. If you go on Etsy, there's loads
14:12
of planning resources you can download like workbooks,
14:16
journaling prompts, all this kind of stuff.
14:19
Meal plans, people sell them in like packages.
14:22
You can just download, print and work through yourself if that's
14:25
something that works better for you.
14:27
I have one that I send to my clients as well.
14:29
Just to get your brain working and get get yourself thinking
14:32
about, OK, what help am I going to need?
14:34
How am I going to tackle all these topics?
14:37
And then of course, just like birth dealers, there are loads
14:39
of postparts and dealers on social media that you can
14:41
follow, follow along and and they give lots of tidbits out
14:45
for free. I did most the most.
14:47
Social. Yeah, exactly.
14:48
Was like Etsy. What I thought this is where you
14:51
buy that Cute, I don't know, cup holders or what else.
14:54
Like that's the reason. What was the most interesting or
14:58
crucial tip that you have encountered so far?
15:01
Like mentioning all these different resources?
15:03
What was the main thing where we were like, Oh, this is like the
15:07
main, the golden nugget, golden nugget of.
15:09
Information. That's a big question.
15:11
I would say the biggest this is a conversation I have with
15:14
almost all of not just my clients, but all parents.
15:17
It's like the first thing that you would learn is that you
15:20
don't have any control over your child or how your child is going
15:24
to behave. You can't control how much
15:26
they're going to sleep. You can't control if they're
15:28
going to have bad stomach cramps or if they're going to want to
15:31
be held all the time or if they're going to want to be
15:33
really independent. So my golden tip to everyone is
15:37
always just to go with the flow of it and and practice rolling
15:42
with the punches rather than trying to control the situation
15:46
because you're not going to win and you're just going to stress
15:49
yourself out if you can just yeah.
15:51
And it's hard because we the same with birth, we like to be
15:53
in control. We don't like to give that up.
15:56
We like to be able to plan and organise and know what's coming.
15:59
But unfortunately, when you're a parent, that's not going to be
16:02
possible anymore. I feel there's so much what
16:04
you're saying because I felt this, I I've had all this
16:07
information and I thought this is what I have to do.
16:10
This is what I have to do. But then at one point I was so
16:12
overwhelmed and then I stopped everything.
16:15
I was like looking at my child and like, what do you need?
16:20
What is your, what is our personal individual situation?
16:24
And then take it from there. And yeah, 'cause I had like
16:28
nodding, nodding. Yeah, you can't, the listeners
16:31
can't see it. But I was like, yes, yes, I
16:33
relate to this so much because you hear all this and also with
16:37
equipment stuff, like you can buy all this stuff, but you
16:39
don't know if they're going to sleep in the cod.
16:42
You don't know if they're going to sleep in this nest.
16:44
You don't, you don't know anything.
16:45
You have only ideas and theoretical concepts about
16:49
stuff. And then that's when I feel
16:51
parents get then insecure when they then feel, oh, but this
16:55
should work. This should work, right?
16:56
A professional says this or this is like some valuable
16:59
information, like why is it not working?
17:01
Because they're not seeing what's what's needed actually
17:04
from their child. So yeah, I totally agree with
17:07
that. Yeah, and you as a parent,
17:09
you're the one that knows your baby the best.
17:11
Yeah. You have to like tap into that
17:14
and kind of like not even though I've just given all these
17:16
resources, you don't need to do any of that.
17:18
You can block all that out. You can ignore all of that and
17:21
just tap into what your gut is telling you.
17:24
And those first few weeks are so crucial because that's the
17:27
moment that you can get to know your baby.
17:29
And you'll get to learn what their cries mean and what their
17:32
behaviours mean and what their, for example, like hunger cues
17:35
are before they even start crying.
17:37
And you know, you'll get to practice like when's the right
17:39
window to get them down for a sleep so they're not over tired
17:43
and they go down easily. And that actually can't be
17:46
taught. That's just something that you
17:48
need to learn through practice. And you might get it wrong a few
17:52
times and that's OK, That's OK. You just have to you practice
17:56
and get to know your baby because you know the better than
17:58
anyone else in the world. So I remember when people were
18:01
telling me that all I remember was gone.
18:03
I have no clue. I have no clue.
18:04
I have no clue. Like, I mean, this is a little
18:06
bit like, I just, people keep telling you that and you're
18:08
like, but I don't like, I have like, no, I don't know anything.
18:11
And I think the whole idea is more based around the fact that
18:15
you're with this child 24/7. And therefore that's the whole
18:19
logical side of this is, is not meant to be.
18:22
Oh, it's inside your heart, it's inside your God, it's inside
18:25
yourself. This is the answer.
18:26
Where they bloom from, It's actually, no, it's actually just
18:29
a logical statement. You know your child better than
18:31
anyone because you're with them the entire time.
18:33
And I think that's one thing. I really wish that my brain back
18:37
then, which was and still is Jelly, but I think that was one
18:40
thing. I wish I was able to kind of
18:41
realize what that sentiment actually was.
18:44
It wasn't just a trust your gut. And I'm like, what the hell is a
18:47
gut feeling? Yeah, that's true.
18:48
It's a bit of a vague thing, vague thing to say, especially
18:51
if you're not someone like I make all my decisions based on
18:53
gut feeling, but not everybody lives their life like that.
18:56
There's a lot of like, you know, pro and con list people and then
18:59
it's really hard to tap into that.
19:01
But yeah, you're exactly right. You're the person that's
19:03
spending all this time with them.
19:04
Just, you know, take a breath, take a moment.
19:07
And also, I think people don't realise this with the 1st baby.
19:10
If your baby starts crying, you don't need to panic, you don't
19:13
need to rush over to them. There's no sense of urgency.
19:16
You can take a moment, you can take breath, you can censor
19:19
yourself and then you can think more logically.
19:21
Okay, what is my baby telling me that they need?
19:24
Do they just need a cuddle? Do they need food?
19:26
Do they? Is it time for a sleep or a
19:28
nappy change? And when you take that pause
19:31
that helps you like tap into them and their how they're
19:35
expressing themselves better so that, you know, a few weeks down
19:38
the line when they start crying or expressing a certain
19:40
behavior, you're like, aha, I've seen this before.
19:42
I know what this is. I know how to fix it.
19:45
And that saves a lot of, you know, panic and stress.
19:48
Yeah. Also when you're saying this, it
19:49
is their only way of communicating.
19:51
They cannot do anything else other than scream.
19:53
So when you it's not always an emergency, like they might have
19:57
a full diaper, but and then they tell you by making themselves
20:00
heard. Right, so.
20:03
So one of the things I'm thinking about when you're
20:05
saying this is a case of OK, you're ticket moment, listen to
20:07
them. But I think one of the parts of
20:09
being a new parents is the sleep deprivation.
20:12
And I think that also has a huge impact on that ability to
20:17
actually stop, listen, regulate that whole stuff that you were
20:20
just talking about. So as a postpartum dual, like
20:23
when you're looking at this postpartum, the 4th trimester
20:25
stage, like how is it that, for example, like you yourself would
20:29
suggest a new mother can establish like a, a healthy
20:32
sleep routine for both the mother and the child?
20:35
You usually come in and you'll take the baby to be able to let
20:37
the mom rest. So is there something a little,
20:41
as Myron would say, Golden Nugget that you could be able
20:43
to, you know, share with us about that part?
20:46
Honestly I would say my golden nugget is to worry less about
20:52
the hours that you're sleeping and prioritize overall rest.
20:56
So rest doesn't just refer to actually physically being
21:00
asleep, it's just giving, giving yourself a break.
21:02
So whether that's putting your feet up on the sofa, maybe if
21:07
your baby's taking a nap in a dark room, maybe you just go lie
21:09
down and you might not fall asleep, but you're in a dark
21:12
room, there's no stimulants. You're just giving yourself a
21:15
break and doing things that you enjoy.
21:19
So for example, like I'm a big homebody, I love my house being
21:23
really cozy. That's why I like Christmas is
21:25
my favorite time of year. I've got candles, I've got fairy
21:28
lights everywhere. And because we'll be giving
21:30
birth, we're having a baby fairly soon into the year, we're
21:33
going to keep a lot of that stuff up so we can always have
21:35
like, the fairy lights on and my candles lit and my nice
21:38
blankets. And I'm going to, you know, have
21:41
my nice favorite pair of cozy sweatpants to relax on the sofa
21:45
in. And all those things help to
21:47
soothe and calm your nervous system.
21:49
So even though you might be surviving on 4 hours sleep, not
21:53
in a row 4 hours total, there are still other things you can
21:56
do to build rest into your routine.
21:59
That's such a good tip. And also that can be something
22:01
that you can already if you don't like, you know this on the
22:05
top of your head, like what are the comforters for you?
22:08
But I know for myself that I didn't know them a long time and
22:12
then I had to discover this actually gives me rest.
22:15
This makes me feel calm. This is so this is really
22:18
something that people can, when they prepare for this phase,
22:22
start looking out. So what is actually the thing
22:25
that I can in my environment, make sure like I put up the
22:29
candle or the nice blankets or what is my favorite pair of
22:32
socks, like these kind of little things and then take such a load
22:36
because then you can have like your toolkit and just pull it
22:40
out. You can prepare it in advance.
22:42
And then, yeah, not having this moment when you're already then
22:45
unrested and stressed and overwhelmed.
22:48
And then you have to look. OK.
22:49
What is going to calm me down now exactly?
22:51
I. Was going to add something and
22:53
my mind has gone completely blank.
22:55
No worries, that's going to happen to you for years.
22:59
Today, my life, my life, pregnancy, brain and just chaos.
23:03
Welcome to motherhood. I know what I was going to say.
23:05
When we're preparing for birth, we talk so much about preparing
23:08
like the birth environment, right?
23:09
So we talk about like low lighting, soft music.
23:12
If you go to hospital, bring a blanket from your home, bring
23:15
your pajamas, anything and everything that you can do your
23:18
favorite snack act, your favorite food, anything and
23:21
everything you can do to make your environment peaceful and
23:24
relaxing, to help stimulate the oxytocin, which of course brings
23:28
on your labour. All those that whole toolkit
23:30
that you prepare for your birth, you can also pull out in the
23:33
postpartum period. All of that, all the same stuff,
23:36
music, lighting, sense, touch is all going to help with the
23:41
oxytocin and to calm your nervous system.
23:45
And all those things are also great for baby.
23:47
It helps keep them calm, particularly the low lighting.
23:50
Yeah, and especially in winter, one of the reasons we were
23:53
talking about this topic was a couple of weeks ago, you put out
23:56
a post on your socials about postpartum and how I think it
24:01
was about for the first six weeks of a newborn not to accept
24:05
visitors, of course, except for the family.
24:08
So I kind of wanted to touch on that because that's actually
24:10
been something I've spoken to other new moms about that they
24:13
were kind of slightly panicked because obviously as
24:15
international families here, our families are travelling over
24:19
here. And so normally we receive them,
24:21
we host them, we do stuff with them.
24:24
But now as a new mom, it's very different.
24:28
And so your post really got me thinking and that's why this
24:30
episode is here is we really wanted to touch on that.
24:34
I wanted to see your thoughts and what how you're going to
24:37
manage and maybe experiences you've had with some clients.
24:41
Yeah, this is a big topic for me because I am a really classic
24:44
introvert. Like being around people makes
24:46
me so tired. And I know that having people in
24:49
my space with a newborn, it's just going to absolutely throw
24:52
me. So I've been saying this to my
24:54
husband for years, like long before we got pregnant.
24:58
We are not having visitors for the first six weeks minimum.
25:02
Like minimum, maybe I'll get to six weeks.
25:04
And I think, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready to have people in
25:07
my space. And it will be longer.
25:08
We'll see how we feel when we get there.
25:10
And yeah, it's difficult with with grandparents.
25:13
So we've obviously agreed, you know, grandparents are welcome
25:16
to come over, but you will not be sitting on the sofa for four
25:20
or five hours and holding my baby.
25:21
You'll be coming to help. Yes.
25:23
You can also cuddle the baby because everyone wants to cuddle
25:25
the baby. It's cute and it's fun.
25:27
But you're coming to help. And we've already been giving
25:29
them lists of like, these are the kinds of things that would
25:31
be really helpful, like picking up groceries on your way over,
25:35
cooking some food for us, folding laundry, maybe running
25:39
the vacuum around. Just like, it doesn't need to be
25:42
like get on your hands and knees and scrub my toilet clean.
25:45
But just like those little things that become so hard to do
25:47
when you are sitting at home with a newborn all day.
25:50
And in terms of international, like obviously both my parents
25:53
in the UK, I've said, you're welcome to come, but for the
25:56
first six months, you will not be staying in my house.
25:59
You need to find your own accommodation because I live in
26:01
a, you know, a little two-bedroom apartment like most
26:05
of us do. It's not like we have these big
26:06
houses like you might do in other like, America where you've
26:10
got all that space. People have much bigger homes.
26:12
Like we're so cramped in Amsterdam and I just can't be
26:15
having people in my space. So I've told them if you want to
26:18
come, pay for a hotel and come over and help because that's
26:21
what I need. So you've said very clear
26:23
boundaries and expectations, right?
26:26
Yeah. Has it gone down very smoothly
26:28
with the grandparents? No.
26:30
No Imagine. Do you know, I have to say I was
26:35
just going to say, like I was talking to my mum recently about
26:37
this and I kind of was saying, oh, you know, the next episode's
26:40
going to be about this or whatever.
26:41
She said, well, times have changed because she was kind of
26:44
like, this is obviously you tell your parents you're not going to
26:46
tell your in laws that. And it's like, well, if I'm not,
26:49
then obviously my partner's going to tell their parents
26:51
then. I mean, if.
26:53
But she was just, I think, yeah, times have changed.
26:56
I just thought, wow, yeah, they have.
26:58
Yeah, I've been having this conversation with a lot of
27:00
people because we have had some reactions from a few of the
27:03
grandparents. And I think obviously like we're
27:05
this generation of parents that we are doing things totally
27:07
differently. But also because I think because
27:09
we have access to social media and the Internet, so many
27:12
resources from my parents, they went to their parents with all
27:16
their questions and for support and stuff like that.
27:19
And I'm not going actually don't want that.
27:21
I'm not interested in their opinions.
27:22
I don't I'm not trying to do it the same way that you did it.
27:24
I'm doing it in my way. And I really don't want to,
27:27
really don't want to hear your opinions and thoughts and
27:29
feelings how I'm parenting, which has been shock for them to
27:33
hear because it's just, it's such a huge shift in the way
27:36
that we parent these days. Yeah, but you know what?
27:39
I think it's so crucial to have these conversation beforehand
27:43
because now you have the energy to have this conversation and
27:47
you have the energy to hold up your boundary in a gentle but
27:51
firm way. But when you haven't had this
27:53
conversation before and then you're already overwhelmed with
27:56
everything, then it either gets into a fight or you're just
28:00
going to give up and be like, all right, whatever.
28:02
Like I don't have space for anything.
28:03
Whatever you want to do, I am done with this.
28:06
So it's so crucial to have these hard conversations in a time
28:11
where you have the capacity to actually communicate what you
28:15
want and defend it and make sure it's heard and maybe come back
28:19
to it because it's like, yeah, you said it's like, all right,
28:22
maybe they get this piece of information and then they're
28:24
like totally overwhelmed and shocked.
28:25
They need to sit on it. You come back, you revisit, and
28:28
then you have these, this time to work it out that by the end
28:31
of your pregnancy you land in a space where then you're good to
28:35
go with them into your postpartum period.
28:37
Totally. And it's all about like like
28:39
kind of sowing the seeds and laying that groundwork for, for
28:43
later because you know, we're going to be parents forever now.
28:45
This is, it's also gotten me thinking about how, you know,
28:48
not only is it transition for me and my husband to become
28:50
parents, it's also a transition for my parents to become
28:53
grandparents and not be the the center of the family anymore.
28:58
It's a big transition for everyone.
28:59
One in relationships will change.
29:01
And this is something that is more for my husband because he's
29:04
not a particularly opinionated person.
29:06
He's very easy, easy going, laid back, go with the flow.
29:09
And now he has something that he's really passionate about and
29:12
he really cares about. And he he all of a sudden is
29:14
having all these opinions and it's a bit strange for his
29:18
family to all of a sudden have him disagree or stand up for
29:21
himself and, and all this stuff. So yeah, we're having some funny
29:24
reactions, but it's, I'm very pleased that we have started,
29:28
you know, started to tackle that already.
29:30
So that's a good, yeah. A really important tip that I
29:33
would give people as well. Think about what you want your
29:36
relationship, what you want your grandparent, the grandparent and
29:39
the, and the baby, what you want their relationship to be long
29:41
term, what you, the boundaries are, what the expectations are.
29:45
Have a long conversation with your partner because she might
29:47
have differences and you know, you're blending 2 family
29:50
backgrounds. So, and for a lot of us, like
29:53
I'm English, my husband's Dutch, we're blending 2 cultures.
29:57
So there might well be differences in, I'm sure there
30:00
will be differences in opinion and how people think, you know,
30:03
children should be raised. So having a conversation with
30:05
your partner and then start sowing those little seeds
30:08
already during your pregnancy and it will just set you up, you
30:10
know, way down the line, you'll be so thankful.
30:12
Even though the conversations are really tough, they're really
30:15
hard to have, especially if someone doesn't react the way
30:18
you think they're going to react.
30:19
But it's totally worth it long term.
30:21
By any chance, do you include those tips of what to suggest
30:24
your parents to do? Is that included in your little
30:26
package that you give some of your clients?
30:29
Yeah. So definitely things that we, we
30:30
talk about in because I do when I, when I work with a postpartum
30:34
client, we do like an intake in person and then then we start
30:36
talking about these things, giving them tips of how you can
30:39
put people to work because that's hard.
30:41
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking because it's also a case of
30:44
people have different standards of washing maybe or how they, I
30:47
mean look and have a huge fight between even couples themselves
30:50
is how to stack the dishwasher or how to hang out your laundry.
30:54
I mean, that was just the thing I was thinking like, oh, you
30:56
just you also will have to accept their efforts of what
31:00
they do. Yeah.
31:01
That's, yeah, that's so true. And also play to people's
31:03
strengths. So there are some people that
31:05
I'll be like, will you come over and cook for me?
31:07
And some people that I won't ask to cook for me because that's
31:10
not something that they're good at.
31:11
And that's OK. There's other things that you
31:13
could do. And yeah, like you say, some
31:15
people have a higher level of cleanliness than others.
31:17
So you can also totally like work, work to people's
31:20
strengths. Like that's how me and my
31:21
husband share the household responsibilities.
31:23
We don't do. It's not like I vacuum one day
31:25
and he vacuums the other day. I cook every day because I'm
31:28
better and he does all the vacuuming because I don't like
31:31
to do it. Can I ask who's going to be
31:33
doing your food for your postpartum?
31:35
I will be doing a lot of food prep and freezing it.
31:39
We're thinking about buying a second, like a chest freezer for
31:42
the storage. And then I've had a few, like,
31:44
friends who've offered to like, cook and drop off meals.
31:48
Yeah, my parents are both pretty good cooks, so when they come
31:50
over I'm going to put them to work in the kitchen.
31:52
So your husband just has to warm up your prepared food?
31:55
Yeah, We also talked about we're going to teach him how to make a
31:58
few simple things that I really like because we also, he's a
32:01
picky eater. We have very different like
32:03
tastes in food. So I'm also going to teach him
32:06
to make a like, I don't know, five to 10 of my favorite meals
32:10
so that he knows and maybe write them down on a little recipe
32:13
card for him. Simple things so he can just,
32:15
you know, chop and bang in the oven or whatever.
32:16
There's a Christmas idea. Get him a little recipe book
32:19
that's already prefilled in with your favorite stuff.
32:21
Yeah, exactly. Most people don't think about
32:24
they're getting prepared, they're getting prepared for
32:26
birth, they're getting prepared for, oh, what's to come.
32:28
There's the lactation consultants or there's whatever
32:31
else to come. But it's just a case of how are
32:33
we meant to understand how we're going to take care of ourselves
32:36
as well in the postpartum period.
32:38
So with nutrition, as you said, like it's a great example of
32:41
even asking your friends and playing to their advantages.
32:44
If you know, people say, hey, you know, that's a great idea if
32:47
you wanted to do it this way. I do know there's a lot of
32:50
international families here who've actually looked at trying
32:53
to set up the food trains. And I mean, it's just, it's very
32:55
hard because we do live in such different areas, you know, North
32:59
SE West. So it is a bit complex.
33:02
I really like the idea of being able to prepare your food in
33:05
advance if you have the capacity to be able to store an extra
33:09
freezer, which most of us won't be able to, hopefully, yeah,
33:12
you'll be able to have your Sunday roast for Christmas and
33:15
then spend the rest of your time preparing for what's to come in
33:19
the next couple of months in the new year.
33:21
So we've spoken about the family coming over, about setting
33:24
boundaries, about a bit of nutrition aspect of things.
33:27
Is there anything that you have seen in the last few years of
33:30
pink ways to help mothers, especially encourage bonding in
33:34
that pivotal time in those first few weeks with an infant, with
33:38
the newborn? Is there something special,
33:40
apart from skin to skin, which everyone's going to be told
33:43
about in the hospital? I was going to say skin to skin,
33:46
but like there's no time limit. You can do so much skin to skin.
33:50
So get yourself like a stretchy wrap, carry a thing You can
33:55
strap your baby on your chest and you can just hang like that
33:58
for until for a long time, for hours.
34:01
And even if it's too cold, you don't want to be completely like
34:03
topless. Put your baby in the carrier as
34:06
you go about your day because that means you have the
34:09
opportunity to the first like, you know, two or three weeks,
34:13
maybe you're just going to want to be sitting down, right?
34:15
But when you are starting to get your energy back and you're
34:18
starting to feel a bit like you're ready to participate a
34:21
bit more in the household, you can, you can just pop your baby
34:24
in, like carry it and then you can cook, like light household
34:27
chores, whatever you feel up to go for a walk with them on your
34:30
chest. And that's a great opportunity
34:32
for bonding. It's also a great activity for
34:35
babies for them that is enrichment and stimulation
34:38
during their wake window. And if they nod off and have a
34:41
little snooze on your chest, then that's great.
34:43
And something that I really struggle with as a postpartum
34:45
dealer is I spend a lot of time holding the baby and you get so
34:48
achy, like my neck, my shoulders, I get not such a big
34:53
thing. For us, it's like utilizing,
34:55
making sure we're going to utilize that carrier to take
34:57
that physical stress off of like shoulders and and neck and these
35:00
places that we hold. Tension.
35:02
Anyway, I have a question that actually relates to Marin as
35:05
well. A while ago myself off Baron
35:07
spoke about something and it was there's a German phrase and I've
35:10
seen seen it written in different ways as well. 555, is
35:14
it 777 in German? Seven days in the bed, seven
35:17
days beside the bed, seven days near the bed.
35:20
Yeah, actually some take it to two weeks or seven in near and
35:25
then around, yeah. That's something that you,
35:27
Harriet, have practice with or being with people who've taken
35:30
into consideration or part of their culture or.
35:34
To be honest, I don't have many clients that have really given
35:37
it that much forethought and planning to be like, I'm going
35:40
to spend this amount of time in, on and around the bed that first
35:44
week. I've never in people's homes
35:45
anyway because they're with the cram.
35:46
So normally by the time I come in, people are up and about and
35:49
a bit more mobile as well. But yeah, there's absolutely a
35:52
really kind of traditional method to supporting your
35:56
postpartum recovery. It's something that we see in
35:58
cultures all around the world is having that emphasis on whether
36:02
it's three weeks or 40 days or six or however the time is lit
36:06
up. That's a really cool principle
36:07
to help with recovery and of course, bonding and establishing
36:12
breastfeeding and all these things.
36:14
So it's something that I absolutely mentioned to my
36:17
clients. I often recommend, you know, the
36:19
book first, the 1st 40 days because that takes you through
36:23
all the reasons behind it and sort of the traditional Chinese
36:26
approach to postpartum. And in that it's a beautiful
36:28
book. It's a lovely gift to give
36:30
people as well because it's a really, really gorgeous gift.
36:32
And the second-half of the book or recipes of meals and snacks
36:37
and drinks that you could make for people or ask people to make
36:41
you or just have AI like to. I'm not really a recipe
36:43
follower. I just like to read them and
36:44
then kind of pull inspiration. That's a really lovely book that
36:47
explains all of the reasons behind rest and this principle
36:50
of spending the 1st 40 days actually in bed.
36:53
But everyone's different and some sorry, some people might
36:57
feel that need to be more active.
36:59
I mean, I'm not saying like run a marathon, but you know, might
37:02
go for gentle. That's something that I think
37:03
will be to me is going for little walks and getting fresh
37:06
air and getting out of the house.
37:07
So it's kind of you have to again comes back to like
37:10
following your gut, what you think is going to be or what
37:13
feels right to you in the moment.
37:14
I wanted to circle back one question earlier when we said
37:17
how can we encourage bonding and what are the techniques and all
37:21
that? And what if a mom has struggled
37:25
with postpartum depressions or baby Blues or something like
37:28
that, and then she has troubles with connecting with the baby
37:31
and maybe even having trouble having baby physically on her
37:36
the whole time because it just doesn't sit right?
37:39
Have you encountered this with violence?
37:41
And what are tips for moms who have maybe not this and total, I
37:46
want to suck up my baby. I want to like indulge in it
37:49
like this whole. That's what we wish for, of
37:51
course. But then the reality is it's not
37:54
the case for everyone. And is there anything that you
37:57
help your clients with who go through a phase like that, how
38:00
they can find other ways to connect and bond?
38:04
Yeah, that's a really good, a really good question because
38:07
that is a reality of it, right? That not everybody feels that
38:10
lots of people do feel in an instant rush, even without any,
38:14
you know, postpartum depression or mood disorder.
38:16
For some people that bond takes a while.
38:18
And which is kind of makes sense if you think about it, it's like
38:21
a whole new person, you've never met them before, you don't know
38:24
them going through this journey of like trying to connect them
38:27
and get to know them. So sometimes that takes a bit of
38:30
time and maybe, yeah, it takes a bit more effort and that's OK.
38:34
That's that's not a problem. So I would first of all advise
38:38
people again, in the Netherlands, you have the crams
38:39
or so you do have someone looking out for you in those
38:42
that first week. If you have a postpartum, do
38:44
your post. And Julia will also also be
38:46
keeping an eye out for any, you know, potential red flags As for
38:49
your midwife, but maybe have a quick conversation with your
38:51
partner before you give birth about, you know, what the what
38:55
the red flags could be, what you're looking out for, what
38:57
might signal there might be something wrong.
38:59
And if you have any doubts or if it doesn't feel right,
39:02
immediately go and talk to your midwife or your house arts
39:05
because there is in the Netherlands, there is so much
39:08
support and structure, but you do have to go out there and and
39:11
find it. You have to advocate for
39:13
yourself. But there is a, there is tons of
39:15
support here and there's lots that they can do, but you have
39:18
to make it clear that you want that support now if you're
39:22
struggling with bonding. Go ahead.
39:24
No, I was just going to say one thing I was told by my velocity
39:27
was actually they said to me, just so you're aware, bonding
39:30
might not be instantaneous. It can take up to six months.
39:33
There you go and we there's just this narrative that, you know,
39:37
you birth your baby and you get hit with this rush of love and
39:40
emotion. And for some people that's true.
39:41
But yeah, not for everybody. And I do think that's something
39:45
that we should, you know, talk about a bit more.
39:48
I feel like there's something that's still like, like a level
39:50
of shame with it like that makes you like a bad parent or a bad
39:53
mother if you don't have that instant love and connection.
39:57
But of course it's not. It doesn't mean that at all.
39:59
Of course, it doesn't mean that at all.
40:00
And it doesn't mean that you won't get there.
40:02
Other things you can do. To help bonding is any kind of
40:06
like like when you're changing the nappy eye contact.
40:09
Play with them, see how they react to different, I don't
40:13
know, stimulus like toys. Just try to play with them and
40:16
interact with them as much as possible.
40:18
And most importantly, give yourself a break.
40:20
You're struggling, struggling to form a bond with your baby.
40:24
And you put all that pressure on yourself and you feel all those
40:27
shameful feelings. That's not gonna help.
40:29
That's not gonna help that bondage.
40:31
That's just gonna make you overthink it and make it worse.
40:34
So it's OK to say I'm struggling, you know, I need to.
40:38
Maybe I need to step away a bit. Maybe my partner needs to take
40:41
over and I need to go out the house for an hour or two.
40:43
Like, whatever you need to get yourself feeling good again
40:46
before you spend time with your baby, that's also fine.
40:50
Nothing to be ashamed about. Absolutely not.
40:53
Yeah. Absolutely not.
40:54
And it's one of those things that if you experience it and
40:57
you start communicating with people, I bet so many people
41:02
will be like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I had that too, actually.
41:06
Yeah. It's one of these things, like
41:07
with pregnancy loss, that you don't realise how common it is
41:10
until you go through it or, you know someone that goes through
41:13
it and then all of a sudden other people start popping up.
41:16
Oh, yeah, I have that too. Oh, yeah, we experienced this as
41:18
well. Or with fertility issues, we
41:20
don't know how common they are because there's still that level
41:22
of shame. But I bet if you started being
41:24
reopened and and talking about how you found it hard to bond
41:27
with your baby, so many other parents would be able to say
41:32
yes. I had exactly the same
41:33
experience. It is one of those topics I
41:35
guess a lot of people will hold their tongue.
41:38
That's what we're doing this, you know, that's why we're
41:40
having these conversations, to really make this heard and give
41:45
people the Peace of Mind. They're never alone with
41:49
anything. Everything they're going
41:51
through, someone out there has either experience with it and
41:55
maybe can just lent them an ear, or they're in the same thing,
41:59
talk about stuff. That's the important thing,
42:01
yeah. Yeah.
42:01
And also the fact we're international families, so we
42:04
have like an A little bit extra, an added stressor on top, which
42:07
doesn't really help. Yeah, we are extra vulnerable.
42:10
There are plenty of studies talking about like how mental
42:13
health for immigrants and expats, we're more likely to
42:16
come across mental health problems because we feel like
42:19
isolated and, and vulnerable and alone.
42:23
And that's where it's really great.
42:24
You're seeing more social events and brunches and Facebook groups
42:28
and WhatsApp groups popping up these days.
42:30
That's a great way to to connect with somebody who's going
42:34
through the same thing at the same time as you, particularly
42:36
these, you know, at the spring summer Facebook groups.
42:39
Yeah. And at the same time, myself and
42:41
Marion have already discussed that the idea of this podcast
42:44
was because some of those groups can be very overwhelming, like
42:47
people could be like, you know, can anyone help me with this?
42:50
And then unfortunately, someone's mid typing something
42:53
else that they need, and then that conversation gets carried
42:56
away. And so people can feel lost in
42:57
the noise, as it were. So that was also, you know, that
43:01
happens to most of us. You know what we're asking.
43:04
Yeah. I'm not in any of these groups
43:06
because it's so overwhelming and I don't have the Facebook app on
43:10
my phone, so that's one thing. But the idea of being in a
43:12
WhatsApp group and just people being able to message me
43:14
directly to my phone that I have with me all the time, so
43:17
overwhelming to me. Like I said, I'm such an
43:20
introvert, so I'm not. You don't have to join them.
43:23
I'm not in any of them. But I'm also fortunate enough to
43:26
kind of already have my foot in the door of this community
43:28
through my work, which has been a really, really special part of
43:31
this pregnancy actually is. Yeah.
43:33
Feeling like I've been welcomed with open arms by this huge
43:37
expat mum community. Oh, because you poured so much
43:40
into the community with your work, then everyone's like, Oh
43:45
yes, finally we can help Harriet.
43:48
Well, I. Appreciate it for the rest, I
43:51
think I have one quest that you might be able to help us fulfill
43:55
since, as we said, like, you know, being parts of other
43:57
people's families and seeing how they're managing.
43:59
And is there any tips or strategies you've seen people
44:03
implement into becoming a new parents that you were like, wow,
44:06
that's that's really interesting.
44:08
Or hey, that's you know, I've never thought of that.
44:11
Or it might be a cultural aspect.
44:13
It might be even like even down to just reading a book.
44:16
Is there something that you're kind of like?
44:17
I saw this in a family. This is something I want to
44:19
bring into mine. It's such a good question I'm
44:22
like racking my brain. Honestly, no.
44:25
That's fair enough. I mean, in fairness, I don't
44:27
like we said earlier, it's not something you can actually
44:30
prepare yourself for. Sleep deprivation plays an
44:33
absolute mind game on anyone. I mean, that's why it's
44:36
considered one of the torture elements that people can use in
44:39
other people because, I mean. It is beautiful.
44:42
It's not. Not torture.
44:44
No, no, no it's not. Yeah.
44:46
And I'm not saying it's not tough, but your body is kind of
44:49
designed to deal with it. Like, so I have always struggled
44:53
with insomnia. And that was something sort of
44:54
sleep deprivation was something that I was really worried about
44:57
because I'm like, it takes me so long to fall asleep that the
44:59
baby's only be sleeping for three hours, two or three hours.
45:02
And it takes me an hour or two to fall asleep myself.
45:05
How am I going to cope with this?
45:07
Actually, when you're when you're breastfeeding, your body
45:09
does produce hormones that will help you relax, help you fall
45:11
asleep. And everybody says, everyone
45:13
keeps saying insomnia has been the biggest thing for me this
45:16
pregnancy, like when you're postpartum because you're so
45:19
tired that when you get an opportunity to sleep, you're
45:21
just out. So I'm hoping and praying that
45:24
that's my experience. This insomnia is done when the
45:26
baby comes out. It's heavy.
45:28
Well, I can definitely tell you if you do get into any of those
45:31
WhatsApp groups, like myself and Aaron, we're texting each other
45:33
at 3:00 AM, you know, doing it like a feed or something.
45:36
And it's like, what are you watching?
45:37
I'm doing this. Oh, what do you do?
45:38
Because we had a little, a nice group of a WhatsApp group that
45:41
we would, you know, at any time in the night, you can easily
45:44
talk to someone because someone's guaranteed to be up.
45:47
Yeah, that's the nice thing with these WhatsApp groups and
45:49
because of the ways you can feel so only and isolated during
45:53
these night time feeds and your partner's probably like snoring
45:55
next to you because they don't wake up.
45:58
You're so in tune with the baby, you wake up, they don't.
46:01
And that's something that's also a good piece of advice I give
46:03
people is like, that's not, that's not his fault.
46:06
That's not their faults that they didn't wake up.
46:08
That's OK. Maybe you feel some feelings of
46:10
like resentment or frustration, which is totally understandable,
46:13
but it's also you can, you can work with that.
46:15
So like if I'm going to be be doing 3:00 AM feeds, I expect to
46:20
be able to lie in my bed in the morning and my husband will get
46:22
up and take the baby for a few hours because he's had his good
46:25
like chunk of sleep when I didn't get it.
46:27
That's the nice thing about that.
46:29
We've timed it quite well with the baby because there's all
46:30
this new paternity leave that's come in this year.
46:33
So he's got some really great parental leave, which we're
46:36
really grateful for because he can really help support me.
46:39
But yeah, feeling resentful towards your partner is not
46:42
going to help. It's not going to help anything.
46:43
So you've got to try and, which is tough, but you've got to try
46:47
and let that go a little bit. We're still working on that,
46:51
yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say
46:53
that that was actually one thing I did with my partner was I
46:56
previous careers were basically I was a, I was in the music
47:00
industry. So I didn't get to sleep
47:01
weekends for many years. And so I kind of am conditioned
47:04
to being able to accept that, whereas he likes sleep.
47:08
And so I did all the night feeds and exactly like you said, like
47:11
I did the morning feeds and then I might have pumped or whatever
47:14
it was. And then it was literally like,
47:15
I would walk into the bedroom, close the door and like, I just
47:19
fell on top of the bed. My legs would land.
47:21
I didn't lie even straight on the bed.
47:22
I just collapsed straight onto it.
47:24
And that's how we operated because he was fully functioning
47:27
for the day. Whereas, you know, if he didn't,
47:29
if he was awake during the night, Yeah.
47:30
I mean, we're both messed up where it's better to have one
47:32
person who's able to actually cope mentally and physically and
47:35
be able to support us. So it was a great tip.
47:38
Yeah. Yeah.
47:39
And we're still doing that for years on.
47:42
It's hard. Because then you do end up like
47:43
passing ships in the night. That's, that's something that is
47:46
also important to discuss beforehand, like how you're
47:48
going to find those moments to prioritize your relationship and
47:51
what these expectations are like.
47:52
A big thing for me, it's like if I'm in the bedroom and you're
47:55
with the baby in the lounge or in any scenario, the baby starts
47:58
crying, don't automatically give them back to me.
48:01
You have to fix it. And if you can't fix it because
48:04
you don't produce milk like then, then you can give the baby
48:08
back. That's me.
48:08
But you have to try and solve it yourself first is a big rule for
48:12
my husband. Yeah, I mean, they have to also
48:14
become the parent, right? And they maybe even more so have
48:18
this now. They really need to put in the
48:20
work because you have had the advantage of throwing this baby
48:23
inside of you. So you already kind of have
48:26
somewhat of a bonding relationship and feeling for it.
48:29
But then they haven't. And even though of course they
48:32
can put their hands on your belly as much as they want,
48:35
they're not going to be carrying it within them.
48:37
So, so I think that's really then when they have to realise
48:41
this chance, now is my chance to really get to know this baby.
48:45
And now I need to figure out my ways of how can I calm them
48:49
down, how I don't have the boob, I don't.
48:51
Maybe I can give them the bottle, but then that's also
48:53
they need to figure that out. How can I soothe the baby with a
48:57
bottle? Because Mama's not always going
48:59
to be around. Exactly.
49:00
And they need to yeah, figure out their own relationship,
49:04
their own way of doing things. And they also need to make sure
49:07
that they build that bonded connection because like you say,
49:10
when when you carry a baby, you might not feel that bond, that
49:13
might bond, might not be there for you, but almost guaranteed
49:16
the baby will feel the connection to you because
49:18
they've spent nine months listening to your heartbeat.
49:20
They know your scent, they know the sound of your voice like you
49:23
are their comfort space. And that's why it's really
49:25
important for partners to, in those first like 2-3 weeks,
49:29
really step up and prioritize forming their own bond and
49:33
prioritize doing their skin to skin and spending quality time
49:35
with their baby. Because otherwise you end up in
49:37
a situation where just one parent is able to calm the baby
49:41
and that's not sustainable long term.
49:43
So hopefully with all these tips Harriet has been able to
49:47
gracefully share with us, we're going to hope everyone's going
49:50
to be able to take something away from this.
49:51
Because I honestly, I mean Etsy, I mean, come on, that's a brand
49:55
new one for me. I love like the best tip that's
49:58
come out of this conversation. I'm just shocked.
50:01
Yeah, because it is loaded. Etsy, you'll be fine.
50:04
Yeah, go with Etsy. Everything's there.
50:05
Everything you need is there, No?
50:07
Affiliation, by the way, no affiliation.
50:10
Not sponsored content we all do these little packs to share with
50:13
our clients and then you people pop them on Etsy because that's
50:17
a nice bit of like income on the side, but it's so great for for
50:21
parents because you have access to like a whole range of dealers
50:25
and all of our resources that you can download and use for
50:28
yourself. So find your favorite dealers on
50:30
Instagram that you connect with, that you you like what they have
50:33
to say, and see if they've got an Etsy shop.
50:36
Thank you, Harriet. I think that's a great way to
50:37
end this because I think now people are going to now be gone
50:40
and opening up the FC app and they're going to be checking out
50:42
what's out there. Harriet, thank you so much for
50:44
joining us. We are so thrilled to actually
50:46
have you on. We didn't get fully into your
50:49
nutrition, which is kind of what I thought we were going to be
50:51
doing, to be honest. But I mean, we've covered a
50:54
really crucial part of becoming a parent from understanding the
50:58
landscapes of who's going to be there for your birthing.
51:01
But now it's when you get home and it's those first.
51:04
So it's the fourth trimester as it were, as you said.
51:06
And it's a case of that's actually a very important thing
51:09
to start preparing for. And you've given quite a lot of
51:11
thought. I think people are going to have
51:13
to really think about for visitors, for their partner, for
51:15
those conversations and boundaries that you need to set.
51:18
So thank you so much. Thanks for.
51:20
Having me, it was a it was a lovely to chat to you ladies.
51:23
Always a pleasure. In fairness.
51:24
I mean, like, I haven't seen you and I don't know how long.
51:27
So I mean, hopefully, yeah, we'll be able to meet the
51:30
little, the little one to come. Yeah, whenever you're ready.
51:34
You all bring food? Yes, please.
51:36
Everyone I live in Lord, anyone who wants to get the metro to my
51:39
house is more than welcome. But not within the first six
51:42
weeks. No, no, no, no.
51:44
Fair enough. Thank you so much, Harriet.
51:47
Speak soon. Thank you.
51:51
So that was quite interesting and honestly I'm kind of still a
51:55
bit shocked on the Etsy comments she was making.
51:59
It's like the Etsy or you can go to Etsy for this.
52:01
OK so I'm now I'm re evaluating now social media. 1st when she
52:05
said it I was like I, I oh you, you heard that wrong and she
52:08
said no she didn't say Etsy but then she did yes.
52:12
So this is your newest source and I guess for your any
52:15
information and preparation you can do.
52:18
But yeah, I mean it's logical, right?
52:20
So I I can totally see that as a another marketplace for
52:25
information and sharing services.
52:27
Yeah, I mean it's personalized. I didn't expect personalized
52:30
kind of doula notes as it were. I I think, yeah, for me, I think
52:34
it was the most interesting take away was just the whole boundary
52:38
holding and conversations that are needed.
52:41
And I think like we said at the opening here, the our intro, we
52:45
didn't have to do this. So we never had to do go into
52:48
any awkward conversations. So I'm thankful for that.
52:51
And but at the same time, it is a case of between talking to
52:55
your parents versus asking your partner to talk to their
52:58
parents, you know, trying to make sure it is done evenly and
53:02
respectfully. And that's a conversation I
53:04
think is very important to consider whilst still pregnant
53:08
before. Anything happens.
53:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And what I also was feeling like
53:14
this whole topic of not feeling guilty and not feeling like
53:19
you're being rude or anything, like really making sure that
53:23
this is how you feel and this is how you are comfortable and
53:27
everything is about that you make your decisions, right.
53:31
And I mean, this is like the first big practice of what's to
53:34
come in your whole parenting journey where you constantly
53:39
have to stick up for yourself and defend your decisions and
53:43
make sure that you stick with them to have the security with
53:47
yourself and the security with your choices.
53:50
And then to of course, reflect this.
53:52
And at the end of the day, you only want to protect your child,
53:56
right? That's I think if anyone feels
53:59
like they don't have the bulbs to do this, like take a step
54:03
back and look at the bigger picture and your intention is to
54:06
protect you and your child and I think almost every measure is
54:10
acceptable to do that. I mean, and then, and maybe that
54:15
makes it a little bit easier when you have a little backlash
54:18
and you have to deal with that and you still need to be firm
54:22
and loving and just communicate why are you being so firm and
54:27
why are you wanting the things you like?
54:30
Why you want the things done the way you want them done is just
54:34
say this is what I need to feel safe and secure with me and my
54:39
baby. And if you want to support this,
54:42
then this is how you can do it. So I guess this is really like
54:46
showing the other person because I think they take it personal,
54:49
like, oh, you don't want to see me?
54:51
Like, no, I don't want to see anyone.
54:53
Yeah, that's my point. Like I don't most.
54:55
People are offended. Yeah, yeah.
54:58
And I think this is the big, the big thing that we have to take
55:00
out of this conversation, that it's not a personal thing.
55:05
It's I want to be safe and secure and this is how you can
55:09
support me in this. Done.
55:11
And I think if you, yeah, wording it about, you know, this
55:14
is a bonded experience. And I think that was something
55:17
we did talk about is the fact that these are different times
55:20
from our parents when they have birth, even from the 1990s.
55:23
There's like every 20 years. There's a very different
55:26
approach to it. And I think right now when we
55:28
talk about the golden arrow, especially after giving birth
55:30
and, you know, these six weeks, it's a case of, you know, we're
55:33
in no rush. At the end of the day, we should
55:36
just really live in the moment and enjoy the moment and maybe
55:40
you are ready after a week. Maybe you like me, maybe you are
55:43
and great, like great for you, but it's not for everyone.
55:45
And so I think we need everyone to kind of be on the same page.
55:49
If you're ready, go for it, but if you're not, that's OK too and
55:52
take your time. Exactly.
55:54
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
55:55
So hopefully that was an episode that gave you some reassurance
56:01
or maybe some inspiration also going forward into conversations
56:06
that you might want to have with your relatives or your partner
56:10
might want to have with his her relatives.
56:13
Start writing those lists of things that they can do.
56:16
Exactly. And get your friends in in line.
56:19
Yeah, and give them recipe recipe lists of things that you
56:22
want to enjoy and indulge in. And no Domino's Pizza.
56:28
Again, no affiliation, no marketing.
56:31
Healthy, nourishing food, right? I know, I was just so shocked
56:34
about Harriet and her Domino's. Well, we all have our little
56:37
secrets, right? So it seems anyway, this has
56:40
been another episode from us. As always, we would appreciate
56:44
you liking, following, subscribing, hitting that share
56:47
with anyone that you might know that who is pregnant or who is
56:51
considering to be pregnant, or even if you just think, hey,
56:55
there's a podcast out there, they're English speaking,
56:57
they're in the Netherlands, they know what I'm going through.
56:59
There are another international family.
57:01
We got you, we're here. We'd love to see your support
57:04
through Instagram, through YouTube, through Spotify and any
57:08
other WhatsApp group that's going for us.
57:10
Exactly, every Wednesday we'll drop a new episode and if you
57:14
have any comments on episodes, please feel free to share them
57:16
with us. If you have any topics that you
57:20
want to have covered, also drop us a line on Instagram or get in
57:24
touch with us. That was it for this week.
57:27
Hopefully you'll all have a great rest of the day or
57:30
whatever time you're listening to this and we will hear you on
57:33
the next episode. Bye bye.