Latest / Exit Algorithms / Why Business Owners Struggle After Selling, and How to Prepare | Dr. Danura Miriyagalla (#97)
Transcript
- Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Welcome to Exit Algorithms, the podcast where we decode what it really takes unlock growth, streamline operations, and prepare your business for a high-value exit. I'm your host, Pete Vera, and today I'm joined by Denura Miriagala. He has several PhD and master's degrees and brings 25 years of leadership experience across many industries and countries. He's now the head of Australia for ASEAN Futures at Tetrotech International Development and the author of The Navigators Pivot. Denurag, super excited to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast. Danura Miriyagalla: Thanks so much, Pete. Great to be here. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I'd love if if do you mind sharing with the listeners a little bit about your background and yeah, what what led you to work you do today? Danura Miriyagalla: Wonderful. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's been an interesting journey over 25 years. I've ⁓ worked in several domains, public policy, business, research, and creative practice across several sectors. lived in about seven countries and worked across several others as well. And over the past years I've had a very interesting set of pivots, and and obviously that's led to growth in in my career. I I probably give credit to those those pivots for bringing the the kind of insights that I've brought into the The Navigator's Pivot, which is a reflective guide on transitions ⁓ uncertain times. And the past ⁓ 25 years, I've seen leaders and entrepreneurs and ⁓ several individuals across several sectors find challenges across their careers and across things that they want to achieve. And those insights, of course, also provided some level of depth to the to the book that I've written. So I I credit all these experiences to I am today, and and of course it's it's a wonderful chance to be able to share with you. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, ⁓ that's awesome. Yeah, why don't we start off? Do you mind sharing a bit about the book and maybe some of the the main topics and and takeaways for business owners listening? Danura Miriyagalla: Yeah, absolutely. so the Navigator's pivot as the the name suggests, it's about careers or one's life journey moving through shifts and changes across different milestones and and different approaches that one takes. I think there is There's an easy sort of ⁓ understanding of what a career pivot is and and one kind of equates that to a shift or change in what you see, a role shift, ⁓ it could be a a move to a different country or a life change. You know, you could you could become a parent or you know, and or you you find yourself retiring from from work life altogether. And the the case that you you you kind of promote here in in this podcast beat you know someone could be exiting from from a business after selling. So kinds of changes ⁓ are basically pivots. But underneath I also talk about shifts in identity, shifts values and and Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Danura Miriyagalla: shi shifts in the kinds of thinking that that one doesn't necessarily see. I think there's a there's a general feeling amongst individuals and even entrepreneurs who are that some sort of a role shift is is the easy part, know, and then one one is able to kind of move away from from the kind of activity that they were they were doing. But one takes with them certain aspects of of the past, right? So you can leave your role behind, but you can't necessarily take leave your experience behind, you know, or the insights that you receive. So you are taking parts of the past with you into the next stage. So A pivot doesn't necessarily mean a sharp sort of end in in that sense. It it is it is a move from one to another, taking with you certain aspects of of the past. I also talk about uncertainty a lot, and that uncertainty is ⁓ is a reflection of what is normal in society and and work life today. There's a lot of ⁓ that's a lot, there's a lot said about certainty and and working and taking decisions with with everything that that is clear and everything that's known. but what I think is is really important is to try and understand that much ⁓ the world today is is filled uncertainty and and that level of uncertainty is growing. The nature of uncertainty is becoming more complex. and therefore to be able to transition and to be able to pivot from one to another in terms of role but also see your identity shifting and or your values shifting means that we we to be extra careful right about we we gain our insights and and how we take that new step ⁓ forward. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. definitely. Fascinating. yeah, I'm I'm curious, what do you see as a a common mistake leaders or or business owners make ⁓ when they know they need to pivot, but you know, they haven't yet? Danura Miriyagalla: I think a lot of individuals who who might make mistake is it's not about well it's not about a mistake really, but something that they they may not consider sufficiently. they they assume that the next step is is going to be s something simple and something straightforward because they've achieved a level of success. and the the idea that one could potentially become disoriented after success is not something that that comes normal to successful people and and the people who have achieved things. what I've seen over the years is that if you look at work journeys, there are periods of of uncertainty that lead to disorientation in in one's perspective if you're not careful and in you if you don't direct your your career towards purpose. and what I mean by purpose, you can define purpose in any way that you wish. Everyone has different levels of or different aspects of purpose. But if you assume that you've you can exit from a business and and you know get compensated. for that, y you would achieve success immediately again. And some people do, and and people there are lots of examples of of people achieving constant success. ⁓ But often than not, there are of of ⁓ of disorientation, which can actually linger. And ⁓ one is not particularly careful, it have a downward spiral in in terms of one's ability to achieve future So I I I think the the mistake is to assume that confidence at the time of exit would lead to confidence at the time of of and that confidence will only come if if you're comfortable with with the uncertainty and you you of align with the purpose and move in the direction that w what one really wants to. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. ⁓ do you have any advice maybe for business owners considering making the transition into retirement and and dealing with that identity shift? Danura Miriyagalla: yeah, the the advice I would I would give is I think w ⁓ w if you if you look back at at your career or your your business journey, I mean everyone has periods of of regret, periods of achievement. And if you know, we we look back with with the level of insight that is easy. We can you know it's it's always easy to kind of look back and and kind of contemplate things. But you want to be able to do that. with with a level of fun you know level of certainty which comes from understanding that ⁓ reliability, consistency and overall engagement with others is is critical. Right. So if you have that in in your mind and you kind of engage a way that leads to some level of of achievement and success, then the retirement itself can be a period of great growth. You know, so I I encourage people to see retirement at age it is. I mean people retired in their thirties and forties these days, right? For for for for different reasons, ⁓ or shift completely into other things. but I think the idea of trying to be clear of what's next you exit, I think is is critical as opposed to trying to think about what's next after you you exit and you just want take a a break. ⁓ Taking break is great. And I think that those are periods of reflection. but I think what's what's really important is to have a few steps kind of mapped out at least so that you you don't find yourself in in a state of of of of unknown. Therefore it it becomes very difficult to kind of catch what's next. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Great. Yeah, what about developing a a culture for for change within an an organization? you know, maybe an example, the business transitions ownership to a new new owner, there's a bit of a different culture. the leader has deal with integrating and and managing the employees. yeah, what what advice would you give for for that scenario? Danura Miriyagalla: I I think it's it's about trust. and a trust is an interesting word and a very important word, right? So if you look at how trust is created in in diverse themes, it's created through number of very specific and perhaps culture specific reasons. In some cultures trust is created through right? So you you've you've got to contribute and and and be able to to to support the group to to achieve things. In other cultures it's more softer. You you have you've a chance to to get to people outside of work and and to be able to be more yeah mo be more personable outside of work. ⁓ In others, it's it's about hierarchy, right? So you just ⁓ you just align with with your with where your your position is in in in the organization. and w with this trust comes a a very interesting problem, which is that in times of uncertainty, this ⁓ this level of trust becomes very, very difficult to maintain because you can't be consistent, you can't be reliable. and because of that, ⁓ can easily become quite shaky, right? So the hierarchies become very difficult to maintain. it becomes very difficult to to to you know to try to try to get people together because they're they're dealing with lots of emotional challenges due to the uncertainty. And therefore ⁓ as a you you ⁓ what you do, and I think what what they should do is is to treat respect. to the context, respect to the relationships, respect to the role that that needs to be played and role you know, the respect to what needs to be achieved as as fundamental in in building the the kind of engagement that is required for for dealing with the uncertainty. So for a lot of people, for a lot of leaders in times of uncertainty things become a little fuzzy, you know, and and and things become quite ⁓ manic. but I think if if you maintain that level of respect to especially to the context, I think that's really important. In my book I talk about cartographers of context and wayfinders of opportunity. And and I think if if you become a leader who can find opportunity in fuzzy situations, and kind of lead the team through the fog. I think you you will get quite a lot of respect from from your team. but you do that ⁓ not trying to do things yourself, you know, but by getting insights from others and making that everyone is on board to to go along in that journey. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Yeah. How how are what are maybe some some steps leaders can take in an organization to develop a a culture that's more trusting? Danura Miriyagalla: Well, I mean, I think s steps it's it's a tricky one. It it really depends on the culture of of the obvious beat, you know. So I think instead of talking about steps, ⁓ what I might say is building trust requires one to really respect the fact that diverse teams and indiv I mean diverse individuals come with with histories of pivots themselves, right? So ⁓ if you if you have a c say you've got a team of say eight eighteen individuals and and those eight individuals come from very different backgrounds. You can imagine the number of pivots that that team has has experienced. because of that, what I think the a leader should really try and do is to try and engage with these individuals to really understand where where are they coming from? What why are they there? What has brought to that this this position, this, this team? And ⁓ if they understand those kinds of interesting sort of pivots that they've gone through that the team itself that the collective identity of that team is actually these groups of in you know of pivots experiences and identity shifts so if you can create a an identity for a team that blends and kind of relates to every single individual, think you can achieve success. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Absolutely. Yeah, and and you've had a lot of experience in dealing with different different cultures. I I'm curious from your perspective, are there any maybe universal leadership principles or, know, maybe advice for businesses that that deal with multiple different cultures within their organization? Danura Miriyagalla: I I think a lot of people assume that there is a there's a dominant culture that one needs to ex you know one should expect other people to align to. And and it more often not, that's probably true, right? It depends on which country the team is based. But these days got virtual teams and they're literally sitting in in different countries, right? So creating kind of unity cohesion among amongst individuals that don't sit in the same country is very difficult. To do that requires people to perhaps sacrifice of their core identity. on behalf of the team. so for example, say you've got people from in eight different locations, the of the team is going to be very different to the culture of the location that each each individual is based. And if we you try to create ⁓ a dominant culture that everyone has to align to, ⁓ you will that some people will not really align in the best you know, in the way that you expect. at other times they they might actually want, you know some specific type of work ethic that that everyone should align to. But getting some agreement amongst everyone this is the direction we're gonna go through. has to come from bottom up. You've got to really workshop this out. And I I think I I I definitely ⁓ achievements or the success that I've had with with diverse teams has come from everyone to the creation of that culture and contributing their ideas and what is what what respect actually mean? What does contribution mean? What does empathy actually mean? And if you can create ⁓ a culture that yeah ⁓ brings people together they become very strong and ⁓ and a diverse team with with cohesion is i a wonderful source ideas in of uncertainty. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, great. Yeah, a lot of people are dealing with uncertainty with the the age of AI these days, both employees and employers, business owners. I'm curious, do you have any advice for yeah, dealing with the the change uncertainty, the disruption that that's happening in in business with AI? Danura Miriyagalla: Yeah, A AI is just taken over everyone's sort of mindset at the moment. And I I think rightly so. there are like three to four, you know, groups that people I fall into, or the first group are the adopters, obviously. You they there are quite that that's a fairly large chunk of individuals who are adopting AI. because they their careers depend on it. there individuals who've decided not to for whatever reason and and that's an increasingly smaller group of individuals. And I but I think the the group that really I find quite interesting are the are the individuals who who treat AI as a fantastic sort of efficiency tool, research tool, you know, it it it provides enormous amount of ideas for for people who want to think things through. it reduces you know junior staff time and and so on. It makes things quite fast. But the that really I I find that are are really succeeding are those that understand that one success does not actually depend on adoption of AI, but understanding what you could do that AI cannot. Right. So if you can ⁓ you can find that that skill or or or capability where AI cannot replace you on a certain aspect of of work, y you will be extremely valuable, right? And I and I think one of those is is be able to deal with uncertainty. AI cannot deal with uncertainty. AI deals with certainty, right? Because it it it it deals with knowledge. and the the judgment that comes during times of uncertainty ⁓ can only be made by a human and and AI cannot. So ⁓ I I use AI. Yeah, absolutely. I I'm I'm a fan of it. I I would be the first to to say, you know, that we we should use it. But I'm also careful not to lose the, you know, the the senses that I have. and I I see a lot of people passing away their full sort of self over to AI. expecting AI to provide all the answers. And they AI provides a lot of answers, that's for sure. but you know, five, ten years down the track you don't want to be de-skilled and and lose the intuition that that you have. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. How are you that and what or or what are your main use cases for for AI? Danura Miriyagalla: I I think it's it's research and and obviously and you know it's as an efficiency tool, as an automation tool, that I think it's it's it's fabulous, right? So I I would be yeah, you know, I I I like the idea of using AI to support b businesses of deal with Things that cost quite a lot of money for startups, you know, so AI can really help equalize the plane for for people who wanna start up, you know, businesses. real growth I think comes from shifting away not only from AI but to other things and to be able to to understand where the insights for for growth. But for me personally, I would say that it's it's a learning tool, it's an efficiency tool, ⁓ definitely a research tool. and I yeah, let's see what what the future But ⁓ I I have a yeah, a lot of lot of expectations that AI will will provide an incredible amount of insight on on many things, but at the same time, you know, we we should hold on to the kind of judgments and kinds of skills that we have working in in in real practical situations. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Awesome. Great, Denura. I have one one final question. And you touched on it a bit earlier, but I always forced my guests to narrow it down. If they could choose one practical tip for business owners navigating a difficult change in their life, what would it be? Danura Miriyagalla: One practical tip I I would I would say be very clear about the the star that's gonna give you purpose. So you ever every individual moves and navigates through seas change, but the the ones that find real fulfillment at the end of the journey are not those who've who've can measure their success through titles or places they've been to or things that they've done, but those who've clear in terms of why they moved in the ways that they did and held true to their inner values and also stayed connected to the the outer signals around them and and pivoted and shifted as needed so stay clear ⁓ in of one's purpose and and pivot through in a way that feels right for you and don't measure yourself with ⁓ the kinds of ⁓ titles and ⁓ and places that that go to. that might be more than one tip but yeah I hope that's useful. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Definitely. You give some great advice, sir. Thank you. Where's the best place listeners can can find you, learn, learn more about your work and your coaching and your book? Danura Miriyagalla: yeah, look look me up on on LinkedIn. I I think I'm gonna live under this name, so you'll you'll find me easily. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Sounds good. Yeah, I'll leave it in the show notes so there's no ⁓ ambiguity there. Thanks for coming on today, dinner. I had a really enjoyed this conversation. Danura Miriyagalla: Thanks so much, Pete. All the best to you all.