Latest / The Daily Writer / How to Move Forward When You're Feeling Stuck | Carol Enneking

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How to Move Forward When You're Feeling Stuck | Carol Enneking · The Daily Writer

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me for this episode of our Summer Expert Series.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if there's one word that I keep hearing over and over again in conversations right now, it's the word stuck.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if it's just a function of my age.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 50, by the way.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that most people that I talk to are in that sort of middle age range, or maybe it's something going on in culture at large that I'm just not aware of.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or who knows, maybe it's just because we're writers.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're a bit of a crazy group after all, so who knows?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever way that you want to slice it, the fact remains that a lot of people right now seem to be kind of spinning their wheels, paralyzed by all the options before them in life.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's certainly true of some writers that I've talked to.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have more options for how to build a business than ever before.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've all had those moments where we have to stop and assess our situation and figure out our options moving forward, take a breath, and then decide, okay, this is the way that I'm going to go.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm really honored to feature this conversation today with Carol Aniking.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's the author of the book called The Rebalancing Act: Wisdom from Working Women for Success That Matters.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Carol's journey to quote unquote have it all led her to interview over 70 men and women of all ages, uncovering common challenges that hold back working women from true fulfillment.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And her book blends these insights with her personal experiences to provide practical strategies for restoring balance in our busy lives.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, even though she wrote this book specifically for women, she did interview some men for this book, and honestly, I have often found that books written for a niche audience often have great insights for people outside of that intended target audience.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's certainly the case with Carol's book.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in addition to being an author, Carol brings years of deep experience as a senior executive, specializing in talent management, coaching, and leadership to her clients.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Her career has spanned corporations, entrepreneurial ventures as a business owner, and collaborations with over a hundred companies.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Her passion is helping businesses leverage talent, learning, and culture to deliver excellent results through their people.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Carol's greatest joy is her family, which includes her husband Eric, children Bradley, Bethany, and her bonus daughter Alyssa, and the world's best dog, a great Pyrenees named Molly.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Some of her favorite things include live music, chocolate 70s and 80s song lyrics, couldn't agree more with that, ice cream, traveling, trivia, faith, and history.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: What a cool list of favorite things.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I share most of those as well.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: In this conversation today, Carol and I talk about how writers can frequently get stuck and how to start moving forward by addressing the seven archetypes, which are the traps that hold us back.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the reality is that all of us have to face decision points in our complicated, fast-paced world today.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you're going to enjoy Carol's insights just as much as I did.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before I get into the conversation, I want to encourage you to check out Carol's excellent book.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's called The Rebalancing Act, as well as her website, CarolANnyKing.com.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: There will be links to both of those in the show notes.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Here's our conversation.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Carol, welcome to the Profitable Brider Podcast.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So glad that our mutual friend, Tricia Brooke, made the connection for us.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really good to have you here.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for making time to have this conversation with me.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Great to be here.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about um really a few different topics today on this episode.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: The main thing being how to pursue balance within the struggle to have it all, which is something I think a lot of people can relate to on any level.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But particularly those of us who were entrepreneurs, we're trying to build a business, we're trying to do all the things, or people earlier in the journey who are trying to maybe work their way out of a day job or a W-2 or whatever it is, we're all trying to figure out how to balance all the things that we know we need to do, but we're kind of struggling within the midst of that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to get into some of those themes from the book in a few minutes.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can maybe let's uh start this conversation by walking us through your journey and why you wrote this book and what you're hoping that your readers uh will get out of it when they finish it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's a good place to start.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how long do you have?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just kidding.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh six I can't.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: I can give you the short story.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'll try to give you the short story.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: I have a career that looks a lot more like a jungle gym than a ladder.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I started my career out of business school.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: I have a marketing degree, went to work for one of the giant oil energy companies in Houston, and I was in their marketing leadership development program.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I'd work there forever.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it was one of those things where you learn a ton, you it's kind of like running your own small business, and you learn a lot, but then at some point you decide whether you want to stay there forever or not.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I am a poster child for burnout, wanted to start a family.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I ended up leaving the job.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I surprised myself or my boss more at the time, but I had decided that what I really wanted to do full-time was learning and development.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I went into a role where I could focus on that, got a lot of certifications.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: I also ended up having two children, and it it was great.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: I always had a passion for leadership and management development, and it was great.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then I thought I'd stay there forever.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just figured I'd be a corporate person because that's what my siblings and my parents had done.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I just didn't really think about being an entrepreneur.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so all of a sudden, I had my first child.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: I went back part-time and I decided, well, I went back full-time for one day and decided I wanted to stay full-time for a while.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was funny how that was just one of the decisions that would shape my career because so many of my circumstances in my personal life shaped my professional journey.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a husband with a job that required a lot of travel and time away from home.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I just knew it wouldn't work with raising a family.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went part-time, and then my boss, I who I thought I'd go back to work for, ended up leaving.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, she said, you know, you could do this contract.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started on a contract basis just thinking I would work for my boss and do part-time stuff until I was ready to go back full-time.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then I always like to say, I think the man upstairs had bigger plans than I had for myself because the phone started ringing, things started happening, and lo and behold, I was a full-on entrepreneur.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I I laugh and say I was an accidental, I was an accidental entrepreneur.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really did.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I just sort of made it work and and I laughed.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: People would say, What do you do for a living?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say, Well, my real job is to make my children think I work as little as possible.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I read lettered all the days on the calendar that were big events at school and personal events and made sure I was always there for those, but yet started building this business that went well beyond what I could do.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: I had a team of, oh gosh, at any given time, it might have been 12 or 15 people that were all over the world providing management and leadership training.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was great.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: It really was fun.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I kept doing it for, gosh, I think it had been about 16 years.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden I had a bit of a shock in my personal life.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my my husband was having an affair.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a bit of a surprise and then a very um decisive moment for me because I I couldn't I couldn't continue staying married to him.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a whole story about that in the book, but um, but I knew that my life would need to change.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'd need to go back and get a corporate job and have stable income and and all of that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully, I was able to sell my company, go to work for them for two years, transition all the clients.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then one of my clients hired me in to uh reimagine their learning and development department, and it grew into this massive role that encompassed learning, talent management, diversity.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was quite a broad role, and I rose to a vice president level and was doing all the corporate stuff.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I thought I would have done all along.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but then all of a sudden, I um my body started giving me signals that it just wasn't working for me.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a type A personality, and that it's it's funny how I can look back and see all these transitions were just what I needed at the time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but I don't always know that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know when we're in a transition.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: We can look back, of course.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I ended up having an opportunity to leave that job in 2023.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I took it because I had endured breast cancer during COVID.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: I had had some other health scares.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm glad to be seeing you and being able to see today because I faced blindness.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And thanks to the miracles of modern science, I've had four cornea transplants.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I uh am so thankful for skilled doctors and miracles and wonderful things like that, but it it just was uh a grind being that type A personality, traveling a lot, working a lot.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: I did find love again in the midst of all this.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: I was uh remarried and uh ended up deciding to leave my job.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I told my husband I wanted to write a book.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason I wanted to write the book is that I always, the whole time I had my company and I would stand up in front of uh crowds of people, deliver training for days on end, speak in public a lot.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: I always knew that I someday wanted to focus on being a public speaker.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I I finally realized that someday would always outdistance me if I didn't make a big change and go for it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's why I was saying uh when we just spoke before the podcast, I was telling you that being 50 and just kind of taking stock of my life up to this point made me decide that now's the time to go for it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to wait.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how long I have to wait.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to write a book because when you do leadership and development like I did for so many years, you start learning a little about a lot of different stuff.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's very easy to go down those trails that take you in strange directions, chasing projects, chasing paychecks, all in the name of servicing clients.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I wanted to be focused.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that writing a book would help me hone my message.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I thought, what do I really know about?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, always trying to balance all these different roles we play.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it it's I know it's the same for men and women, but of course, being a woman and and juggling the way I did, I could really speak to that perspective.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's where the idea of the book was born in 2023.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: And lucky for me, one of my best, most dear childhood friends is an author.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And she's written 16, now 17 books.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: She ghostwrites, and then she's written some of her own books.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: And they're usually in the category of more sports-related things, sports stories.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: She's got a logic, a lot of regional following on the East Coast where she lives, down in North Carolina.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: But she hadn't really written a book like this before.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: But she's one of the best writers I know.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I called her and I said, Bethany, how would you like to help me write a book?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: And she said I'd be happy to.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, you know, I understand that when you want to do speaking, you might want books to just have in the back of the room when you're presenting.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my goal.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I may only sell five books.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what I'm in for.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, I may or may not go back to a corporate role if the right one comes along.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I had one foot in the corporate world and one foot in my entrepreneurial world again.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh one of the things that's really carried me through all my trials and tribulations is my faith.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's very important to me.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, whatever your whatever your beliefs are, whatever higher power, whatever spiritual practice you follow, I think it's great to connect with that higher power and and and let that guide you.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I felt like um my steps were were once again guiding me in ways I had no idea about.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: I knew, I knew I was taking the right next step.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just didn't know where the path was leading.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the funny thing is, I'm I still don't.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: I've released this book and I'm still I'm here for it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like wherever it leads, I'm here for it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but the process of writing was was actually quite a bit of fun.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I credit a lot of it to Bethany, my friend, because I I laugh and tell people I'd probably still be on chapter one without her.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but she she helped me understand the guardrails, have some deadlines.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then along the way, I met Trisha, and that helped me see with more clarity how my speaking career could evolve.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so here I am.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: I launched a book and my brand and my speaking kind of all at the same time this fall.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I know that was kind of a long way around the story, but but the story is is about two-thirds of it is is from the interviews I did.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: I interviewed more than 70 people for the book.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that's amazing.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of women.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was great.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: I interviewed lots of women, some men, all different ages, different stages, different industries.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I I I knew that I had my own experience with all this balancing, but I I wanted to find out about other people's experiences and how they've made things work when we have so much to do and only a fixed amount of time to do it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so about two-thirds of the book is based on the themes that came out of those interviews, and then the other third of the book is my own memoir.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's written in um a couple of different ways to make that all come together.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the book is really wonderful, and I know that the book is geared toward women, even though you interviewed some men for the book.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I also this is gonna sound kind of weird, probably, which is nothing unusual for me, because it's like whatever everybody thinks about something, I tend to go the opposite direction a lot of times.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: But uh some of the books that have benefited me the most over the years are ones that were not written with me as a target market in mind.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's true a lot of times, you know.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you like for your book example, I know that I was not the target market for that, but I'm reading through it and I'm going, well, I relate to most of the things that they're talking about.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a book, you know, on uh menopause or something.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I that's not something I've experienced myself.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: My wife has been going through that for a while.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully she won't kill me for saying that on a podcast, but I doubt it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a fact of life.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's 50, you know, she's 51 and um has been you know experiencing that for several years.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we've had many, many conversations about that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I actually love Trisha's book that she came out with a year or two ago on that, which I'm which I thought was great.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, lots of lots of threads I'd love to pick up on here.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, this conversation is probably gonna go a little different direction than what I anticipated, which is a good thing, because some many times on these conversations I think, well, we're probably gonna talk about these four threads that are in their book or whatever, but uh you mentioned a couple of things I'd love to to circle back on.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those um is something that not everybody's going to experience, but everybody will experience a crisis in some way.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned you discovered that your husband was having an affair, which uh is something that a lot of people experience in their life.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: They discover, you know, their spouse is being unfaithful, or in a larger arena they they go through some kind of personal crisis of some kind.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk for a moment about what is it like what is it like to have this crisis thrust upon you that you weren't expecting?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned some other health issues as well, which are you know crisis of a of a different kind.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you keep on going, especially as an entrepreneur or as a leader or a business owner, when all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're like, oh my gosh, now I have this whole other thing that was not there yesterday.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now my whole life is going to be different.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep going with persistence in the face of that?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even though internally you're like, my whole world's collapsing around me.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if you can speak to that.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: I can.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot to that, and I've been unpacking that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, first I would say that that there are three elements that have helped me through all of these situations.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And those three elements are surrender, faith, and trust.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And Trisha really helped me hone in on those three things because surrendering my own plans, being okay with not knowing exactly what was going to happen next, and but yet embracing that and learning to let go of what I thought would happen has been freeing and just trusting.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: So trust is second.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: So trusting that the future will be better.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I sometimes might even use the word hope because I always have hope.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I hope in the future, I hope for things to be better than this temporary moment.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I always try to think about this is temporary.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and and then faith, I'm sorry, surrender, trust, and then faith.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the third one, faith.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, faith is a lot of things.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I've mentioned my faith in um my religion, my spiritual practice.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: I am a Christian, so that's my faith.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: But it's also having faith in yourself, in your abilities, in your instincts, in the people around you that you know want good things for you.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's all of that together.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And what's really interesting for me to unpack is looking back at how I was brought up and how that affected me all along the way.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, what I mean by that is I was raised in a family where failure was not an option ever.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: You don't fail, you don't quit.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and my dad in particular loved to use superlatives to describe his expectations.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it was, I want you to be the smartest, the hardest working, the best, have a great reputation, go to a great college, get a great job, buy the house in the suburbs, get married, have kids do all the right things.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know that he was the one or the only one that drilled that into me, but I watched the examples in my life about how things ought to be.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I tried so hard to live my life the way things ought to be, but it was based on everybody else's expectations of what life should be about.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know that I ever just stopped to say, does this make me happy?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Is this fulfilling me?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I was checking the boxes of my life, saying, Yep, did that, did that, did that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden, and I think it was a lot of things that happened, but you know, I think the Lord gave me the children that He did to help me learn a thing or two about letting go of my plans and recognizing that they are probably going to want to live life very differently than I did.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And they have different interests and strengths and challenges, and you've got to be there for them.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't really matter what you think they ought to be doing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yes, right from wrong and rules and all those things and basic social norms, yes, you want that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to, you know, is my child going to be an athlete or you know, in the band, or are they going to be a great student or not?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it wasn't really up to me to decide that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: All I could do was nurture their gifts and help them be the people that they're they're meant to be.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: And as And so that was part of it, but I I was in a marriage for a long time that wasn't good.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and I, if I'm being honest, I was pretty miserable, but I think I um I always kind of rationalize things like, hey, maybe this is just how it's supposed to be.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is everybody ever have happily ever after anyway?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so funny because I think if he hadn't cheated, I probably would still be married to him because I don't quit, I don't fail.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had to really unpack a lot of that and and get okay with failing and learn not to worry about what anybody else thinks.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of that is told in the book, and a lot of that just letting go and going from the person I thought I should be to the person I was truly meant to be has led to such incredible fulfillment and happiness in ways I never even thought possible.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And and yet what I found in these interviews in the book is that there are a whole lot of people out there who are kind of in that same book.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking about their marriages.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't, I'm not gonna get into whether people's marriages are good or or not or whatever, but it's just in general, I think there are a whole lot of people who are so busy doing things for other and others and doing what they should do to take care of all the people in their lives that they're not taking care of themselves.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and we talk about that all the time, but but are we really living it?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it life is supposed to be getting better and easier with all this technology.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And now it's like we've got this Instagram culture of, you know, let's let's look at how to be how to take great trips, how to look perfect on camera, how to have a beautiful home, how to be demure, how to not have wrinkles.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, right, you can learn what to do about every aspect of your life in a constant bombardment of messages all the time, and yet we're totally stressed out and and we're totally burned out and just worn out and more tired, and then COVID hit, and 25% of women had to leave the workplace because one thing in their juggling act, you know, one ball dropped, right?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't have school or they didn't have daycare, and somebody's got to pick up the slack.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, I understand that there's two career households, and there are lots of things that that men are picking up the slack for too.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: But there's something just innate, I think, with women that there's this uh feeling that we've got to do all these things for everybody else, right?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I was that person, and then all of a sudden it's like breast cancer, you know, divorce when you're not expecting it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, why does it take some huge change in my life for me to finally do the things I needed to be doing all along?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: So my goal is to help people learn that lesson faster than I did with less trauma.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So love that story.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't love the fact that you had to go through that, but I I can't even begin to imagine all the people that you've helped by sharing that, not just in the book, but sharing, hey, you can get through this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some positive things that come out of negative situations.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can you know, like you mentioned, finding new love and finding finding what that looks like with another person, even though you went through a tragedy.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's something about um something about going through this mid midlife phase where if you're not open to the things.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a moment to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 25:52
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• 26:01
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• 26:22
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• 26:26
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• 26:29
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• 26:34
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• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's trivellum.com slash Kent.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not open to the beautiful things that life has in store for you, then gosh, so many people they just stay stuck in relationships or jobs or situations that really they don't want to be in, but sometimes they just stay in them because it's like the devil, the devil lets you know versus the devil you don't know kind of a thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that was me.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so funny because they liken it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: You I'm sure you've heard the analogy of people saying it's like being on a hamster wheel and just running, running, running, and you never jump off.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that because everybody always says, well, women need to speak up.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's almost this sense that that women are timid or shy or not able to ask for help.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's probably true for some and to some extent, but I think a lot of it is you're just so busy that you don't have the time to ponder what would happen if you jumped off the hamster wheel right now.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the nice thing, well, I was gonna say the nice thing about COVID.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a horrible thing to say in many ways, but one of the unexpected benefits of COVID is that it it just kind of reset the chessboard for a lot of people in life.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it did.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody was affected by it in some people in in more dramatic ways than others.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think you can either look at a situation like that that's really disruptive and and just be angry that hey, it shook up these elements in my life where you can look at it and go, okay, well, now I have a chance to kind of rethink some things and reset the table a little bit, which can be awesome.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I mean, nope, we wouldn't wish COVID on anyone.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it did sort of make you take stock of what's really important in the life.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: When all of us thought that, oh my gosh, at any given moment this could be detrimental to my health and I I might not be here tomorrow.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you really do sort of look at your life differently.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I don't know why it takes something that major for so many of us to say, huh, maybe it's time to make a change.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that uh that I didn't mention, um, because this is actually the first time that we've met, is we chatted for a few minutes before we hit record on this.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I didn't mention was, you know, you talked about your your faith journey.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was a pastor way back in the day.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I actually started out my journey.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in church my whole life.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Started off my journey uh in high school being very involved in church music.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I actually went to a Christian college to become a pastor, was a music pastor for for a time, then I taught at a Christian college for many years until I transitioned into ghostwriting five or six years ago.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the interesting things that you mentioned, you know, in in making changes in your life is sometimes if you're a part of a faith community.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm sure this would be the case regardless of whether it's a Christian context or other faith-based kind of context, but you know, it can be sometimes be hard to make those changes when certain things are expected of you or certain things sort of go outside the norm of, you know, like many times divorce is is really frowned upon in the Christian world.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: And oh yeah, I was the first in my family.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: No one had ever done that in my family, and I was I was so afraid they'd all call me a failure.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And and I didn't care if anybody, I had plenty of friends who were divorced, and I didn't look down on them.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I understood that there were times when that was necessary, but for some reason I didn't feel like it was okay for me.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's it it is sort of funny the limits we kind of place on ourselves with those things sometimes.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is, and it's very uh I mean, I have not been divorced.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my wife have been married a long time, but uh so I've not been through that myself.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I I do remember distinctly, you know, just kind of talking about going outside the norms.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I got into business, I you know had been in church and ministry in one form or another for a long time.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And my colleagues, you know, at at the school where I taught, nobody really knew what to make of the fact that oh Kansas starting, he's starting a business.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And now he wants to leave you know vocational ministry to go do a business.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not something that people do a lot.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so there does, but there does come a time in your life where you have to look at, okay, this is sort of what my the context of where I am in my life, this is what people kind of expect, but I'm gonna go against that and just do what I need to do and let the chips fall where they may, and that's totally okay.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: That could that can be a real challenge to do.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: It can be, it sure can be.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's so funny because I told you I thought I'd maybe sell five books.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: I had very low expectations, and it is amazing the conversations that have resulted when just helping people be okay with having discussions about where they want to find balance, where they want to make some positive changes, has been so uplifting for me.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: I had a friend from high school who hosted a gathering at her house.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And she just said, Carol can sign your books, we can have a discussion, we had some wine and hors d'oeuvres, and it was just a nice night.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then we sat down and she had me share just a little bit about the book, and then she had everybody go around and say who they were and how they knew me, and then where they are in their own rebalancing act right now.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it was unbelievable.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: We had people talking about getting their dream job only to realize it wasn't going to work with their family and letting that go.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: We had people who had had lost children to cancer.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: We had people who had been through terrible traumas, and and they felt like they could talk about it and they could talk about what that made them want to change and how that how that has changed what they think is important.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it was it was just this crazy perfect discussion that we all needed at the moment.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: I had I laughed because one girl came straight from jury selection, and she is very involved in her business and um really didn't have a week to take off.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And but she said, Isn't it funny?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, she's a we all were different faiths, but she happened to be a Christian.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: But she said, I think God led me here because this is exactly where I need to be tonight to help me remember what's really important.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that my team can handle things while I'm on the jury because she had just gotten selected, and lo and behold, it was a really serious trial that lasted over a week.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, I'm so glad I was here to get this, you know, dose of what's really important in life and have this uplifting conversation.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: But you just I don't know, I didn't expect anything like that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm thinking, I want to have more of these discussions.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we're starting some ways to make that happen.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I just think people are looking for ways to to kind of get ahead of what they want to change before they have to make a change.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: But they want to know that there's a way to do it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think some of it's, you know, you don't know how, there's the devil you know versus the devil you don't know, like you said.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm really hoping that we can have some more of those conversations because I've got to say, rebalancing and really this new lease on life, especially since deciding to leave the safety of my corporate job, it has been incredible.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: And and the fact that I've just completely given it up and said, okay, I do not know where this path is going for sure, but I am going to take the right next step.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: And lucky for me, I've I've owned a business before.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I've got some of the business basics down, but I am starting, I'm starting all over, but I'm trying to do it better and not misstep like I did the first time.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: Not as many.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's all a journey, I suppose.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that there are some times to go out on your own, and there's sometimes uh in fact, I had a had a friend recently who who said, you know, I I just I need to go back into a regular job for a while.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know what, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like being an entrepreneur and being a business owner and and being in charge of all that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not necessarily the end all be all for everybody.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's what's right for you and your personality and your goals and your family.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, that there are a lot of days, honestly, where I still miss being a college professor.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I loved my personality is wired to where I love the schedule, the routine, the predictability of that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's very comforting and reassuring if you're wired to be kind of a certain way, like I am.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's something to being an entrepreneur that is, you know, you when your schedule is totally yours to command, um, that you don't always wake up every day going, oh yay, you know, I'm in charge of every aspect of everything.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sometimes you kind of wish that you could be like, can somebody just tell me what to do?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I remember with my first company, I was in line at Disney World on a vacation with my children, and I got a call from a potential client that ended up being a very big client for many years.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I stepped out of line for that ride and they went on it with their dad.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: They went without me, and it all worked out fine.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: But there's no such thing as a real vacation if because I didn't have you know fancy uh systems supporting me, I was kind of a solopreneur at the heart of the business for most of the years.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I wouldn't have traded the corporate experience for the world.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was the right answer at the right time, and I needed that stability.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because I think people always think the grass is so much greener on the other side.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Not everybody's cut out to be an entrepreneur.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's you've got to have a lot of self-discipline, you've got to take care of the business end of it, and you've got a partner, you know.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm never going to be a great accountant.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I know that I need to have a great accountant to help me.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so not trying to do all the stuff that you're not good at because you can you can get so busy with the details and bogged down in that that you don't end up doing the things that you got into business to do in the first place.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: But people have a hard time letting go and spending money to get people to help them.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, so it's it's a tough balance, but I think that uh that each one can can work in different seasons of our lives.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's funny how I always tell my children, now that they're adults, I say, just take the next step.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to, it's not a decision for the rest of your life.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: And what works for you today may not be what works for you in five or 10 or 20 years.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Just do what is going to lead you toward that progress right now, and then things will work themselves out.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really intimidating when we look at oh gosh, what is gonna happen 20 years from now if I take this move today?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes we can't be so preoccupied with that, I guess.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: We just did a speaking of vacation, we just did a family vacation.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we went to Universal Studios in Orlando and we did a Disney cruise.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: We've been on a couple Disney cruises before and they were fun.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: For this one, we upgraded to the concierge level, which was totally my wife's idea.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was a blast.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I will never do a cruise without that.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as and it was all fun, it was all great.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: However, part of what you get at the concierge level, at least on a Disney cruise, is you get access to this really cool lounge.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there were several times on the cruise where I'm like, I'm kind of bored on this ship.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't really want to sit through another musical or go see some like cheesy show or something.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, nothing wrong with that, but I'm like, I'm gonna go to the lounge and and just do some stuff for a while.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be in the lounge checking my email, working on a couple business things because that's what I love doing.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what brings me joy.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you're so right.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can, of course, if you're the business owner, you can step away and not touch it for a while.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I sort of feel like part of the whole purpose of why we have our own business to begin with is you're creating something that hopefully you do enjoy and that does bring you energy and you'll want to check in on it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying we shouldn't take vacations, but you know, there's only there's only so much sitting around on a cruise ship deck that you can do.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you just get really bored with the whole thing.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what do they say?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you really find a job you love, you'll never work another day in your life.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because it won't feel like work.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and I guess I've been very fortunate that I've had the ability to, I I've really loved what I've done uh most of the time in my 30 plus years of working.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it's taken many different forms along the way.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to ask you, and as we kind of bring this conversation to a close in the next few minutes, um can you talk about your experience working with a writer on your book?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate the fact that you not only named your writer on your book cover, which is cool, you you know, are willing to kind of talk about this openly, which not everybody who uses a writer is willing to do.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious what your experience with that was like.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what would you do you have any thoughts for people who are ghost writers and maybe how they can be more effective in what they do in working with clients?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, um, so much there to unpack.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big question.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: It is a big question.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, Bethany Bradsher is just one of my dearest friends and the most gifted writer I know.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I was so excited to partner with her because we've been close friends for decades.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: We had kind of a shorthand.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: She said usually when she's writing with someone, or especially ghostwriting, she has to get to know them, get to learn their voice, and we could sort of fast forward through all that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we didn't have that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: We had kind of shorthand where she would say, Okay, you're off track.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think you should put this in the book, or you know, she could just tell me what she thought, and that was a beautiful thing.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and I suppose building that relationship takes some time in in most cases.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so we were were very thankful for that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I was insistent on putting her name on the front.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: She did not expect that.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't necessarily, you know, she said, I'm fine with you not putting my name.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm used to on the books that she ghostwrites.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I felt it was important that she be recognized for coming along this journey with me.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and if I get to certain sales levels, I was like, please build in a royalty for you.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just I wanted to do that because that's cool.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like my success is largely because she helped me write this book.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if she can help me be more successful, then I'd like to be able to share that with her.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I realize not every situation is going to be like that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I I thought it was great that she would she would help make sense of things.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: I did the interviews, I did my own writing, but she said just do it from a stream of consciousness.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I I would just write and I would sometimes dictate uh and then uh transcribe it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: And she thankfully could figure out transcription since it's not really a perfect science.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but she would she would say, okay, I can plug this in here or I can make sense of this there, and then she would give me chapters to read and she would um look for my feedback, and you know, so so it was a back and forth process all along the way.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think there are a whole lot of people out there who have stories to tell.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think most of them need some help making it compelling, attractive.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know exactly what the word is, but making people want to read it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's so funny how many people are like, oh yeah, I published a book, or I published 10.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and Bethany, she she likes to laugh.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, did they publish a book or a brochure?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: She said, some people, you know, they write these little bitty thin, I mean, I think there's even a franchise called Thin Books or something, but they're just small books and they don't really have a lot.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Of um polish to them.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think when someone's really got the gift of writing, like the people who do this for a living, they can really make someone's story come to life.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's important.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I've I've referred several people to Bethany since publishing my book.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: But one of the things I absolutely love is that I had a couple of people right after I released the book and they read it, and they said, it's just like you.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds, you know, it's a it's your voice.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: I wondered if it would be your voice if you had, you know, someone helping you do it.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: They said, but it's absolutely you coming through.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it is my story, largely my story, and then my take on the interviews and things like that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, I just think getting to know that voice and and trying to push back and ask the questions and not just say, okay, it's your story.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just the one putting it down on paper.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you've got to be willing to kind of look back on all the things you've learned all along the way, because you know, many of these writers have been doing it quite a while and have formal and informal training on how to do it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, if you feel like something's not going to be good, have the courage to tell them.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's so much better to know that while you're still in the process of writing the book than to hear about it in your reviews and people not liking it or it not having the reaction that you intended.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think you know, Bethany helped me strike the right balance of exactly how much to share.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um maybe a few things she thought were not relevant.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: She told me, don't worry about that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's for the next book, you know.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that back and forth is what made it magical for us.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I I would do it again in a heartbeat.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: I've already told her I want her to help me with my next book.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Not that I can't do it, but it's it's back to that whole when you're an entrepreneur, do what you do well.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: And get help from people for the things that you need help with.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: And don't try to be, I mean, just because you can do a lot of things and you're smart or you're creative and you can improvise or you can pull an all-nighter, doesn't mean that that's the right way.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: I often tell people when when they have questions about ghostwriting, is everybody uses a ghostwriter all the time.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever purchased a greeting card and you've given it to somebody, you've essentially hired a ghostwriter to express your thoughts for you.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: So all that ghostwriting is is just an it's an amplification of that exact same process, really.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we and we all need help with that, by the way.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when ghostwriters write books for themselves or for others, um, editors come alongside at multiple levels of editing and they shape that and they make it better.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we all need help with our writing.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like anybody can produce something that's stellar completely on their own, just not possible.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, the one thing I didn't mention that I would be remiss if I didn't say is also work with a good graphic designer.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure you get to know a great graphic designer.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: Bethany partners with Stephanie Dickens, who did all the graphic design for my book.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm very proud.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm proud of the finished product.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and Bethany kept saying she wanted it to be a book I'd be proud of.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I know sometimes you know you get your book out there, and obviously there's things you would do differently and things you would change, but I felt like it was a good, a good first book.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I'm really proud of the the graphics and the way Stephanie brought those to life.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I would hope that the people doing this for a living would employ a graphic designer or partner with one and not, I mean, maybe they do both, but uh in my case, I think those were two very different skill sets, and having both of them made it amazing.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is so cool to hear.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been a lot of fun, Carol.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, appreciate making time to be a guest on the show today.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've loved this conversation.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where can people find out more about your book and uh your services and all the cool things that you're doing?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: The easiest place is at my website, and it's Carol Enniking.com.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: Don't know if I should spell that.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's E-N-N-E-K-I-N-G, Carol Eniking.com.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Probably should have said Carol does not have an E, but it's probably on the name of the podcast anyway.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: But at my website, you can see links to get the book.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: You can get the book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all your various uh places.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: We will be releasing an audiobook soon.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we we would love for people to join the community and at the website.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, when they do, I have created a legacy blueprint workbook to help them think about their own rebalancing act.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: And really the questions are are geared toward what legacy you want to leave.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: So would would love to connect with the listeners as they'd like.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you again.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an absolute blast.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot and so glad that we connected.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Trisha Brooke, uh, our mutual friend, made the intro.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you again.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, thank you, and I really appreciate the opportunity.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks again so much for joining us for another episode of The Profitable Rider.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you taking time to listen.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking forward to the next episode, which features a conversation with Doug Vigliati, author of the excellent book called Aristotle for Novelists.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're in for a real treat as we explore some principles that every storyteller can learn from Aristotle, the ancient father of story structure.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure and tune in for that one, and I'll see you then.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Before we go, I want to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you may have written a great book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a great editor.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why my friend Karen Hunsinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, shifts in tone and voice, overuse of particular words, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with Karen many times, and she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Visit Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.