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Morgan Gist MacDonald on How to Start Writing Your Book Today · The Daily Writer

0:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey my friend, welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer Podcast.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Do you have an idea for a book but you don't know where to start?
0:40
SPEAKER_01: If so, you'll love today's conversation because I'm featuring a guest who has all the answers you need to start writing that book that you've been dreaming about.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to introduce you to my friend Morgan Gist MacDonald.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: She began her career in academia as a sociologist, but soon found the entrepreneurial pull to take her skills as a researcher, writer, teacher, and leader into building a publishing company from the ground up.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: With more than 15 years of experience in writing, editing, and publishing books, Morgan leads the Paper Raven books team as founder and CEO in developing the best practices for publishing successfully in the modern digital age.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Morgan is also the author of the amazing and excellent book, Start Writing Your Book Today, a step-by-step plan to write your nonfiction book from first draft to finished manuscript.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: I got a copy of that book a few weeks ago, and I gotta tell you, it's a short book, but it is really, really wonderful.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: I personally love short books that get to the point and help you learn something really, really fast.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you only have a few books on your bookshelf about writing, start writing your book today is absolutely one of them that you must have.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: In our conversation today, Morgan shares how to make time to write your book, a few important habits for getting a book done, tips on writing your draft, and a number of book marketing strategies that have worked really well for her.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Morgan is basically a creative genius who leads an amazing company, and I can tell you firsthand, one of my clients is working with her company, Paper Raven Books, and I have been enormously impressed with their level of service to their clients, with their processes, their excellence in everything that they do.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: And if you've been listening to this podcast any length of time, you should know that I never promote things that I do not believe in or have some experience with.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Paper Raven Books and Morgan McDonald are amazing.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: So with that said, let's get right to the conversation with Morgan Guest McDonald.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Morgan, welcome to the Daily Writer Podcast.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: It is a total honor to have you here on the show.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kent.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited for this discussion that we're gonna have today.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: I have a feeling it's gonna be a good one.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So I just got your book in the mail a few days ago.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I have to tell you, this is kind of a well, it's funny to me.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: It may not be funny to anybody else, but so I have a little book coming out in two or three months called How to Build a Writing Habit.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: It's actually gonna be a lead magnet for my daily writer stuff.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: It'll be a free download and all that.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: And so about six or eight months ago, when I knew I was gonna put this together, I was searching for books on just writing habits and stuff like that on Amazon.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: And your book came up, and I was like, that books look really interesting.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: I never heard of that.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: At that point, I was not connected with you in paper raven books and all that stuff.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of funny that we're having this conversation, you know, today.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: So I just want to say I know the book is a few years old.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: It's a really great book.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: You did a phenomenal job with it.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And um, it's funny because I wrote the book a while ago.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, I wrote the book in 2015 or you know, kind of early 2015.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I think I published it in mid-2015.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And I was a freelance writing coach and editor, and I didn't really have any quote unquote business writing a book.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember telling my dad and you know, was went home to to visit the family.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: My dad, of course, is asking about projects and things I'm working on.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: He said, Oh, I'm I'm I'm writing a book about how to write a book.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: And I could tell from his expression, he was like, really?
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Very meta.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit, it's a little bit meta.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I was I was 20 something who had eight years of experience working with clients, and then just suddenly decided now I shall write a book about how to write a book.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: And it felt a little bit audacious.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, we all experience doubts.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to kind of voice that here on the on the Daily Writer podcast that that's very normal to have those sorts of doubts.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: And even now, like I actually have a hard time rereading it because I would write it differently now than I did then.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: But the thing that keeps me from doing something drastic is is comments like like what you just shared with me, Kent, you know, that it's like it is still helpful, you know, it it is it was clean, cut, like methodical.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Here's how you write a book.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Here's here's a method for writing a book.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And people still come back to me today and they're like, Thanks for writing this book.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: It was really helpful.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, it did it, it's doing its job.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: It is, and it's done very well on Amazon.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: So I was just looking at it last night.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: You've got well over a thousand reviews, which is phenomenal.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, congrats.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: That's really, really cool.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we sell about I sell both on Amazon and on my own website through a book funnel.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm selling like a couple hundred copies a month, which is not like, you know, I'm not coming to you from Hawaii or anything.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Live from Hawaii.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: But it has certainly helped like build my business and and get my name sort of out there.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's doing well.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: And and the 1200 reviews was definitely um strategic.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: So we can talk about different strategies for getting some of those reviews too.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I I definitely do want to talk about that.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: And in addition to some things about where you see publishing going and the book world going in the future, there's so many things are changing radically right now.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So, and I know you're you're thinking about these things all the time because your company is constantly in the middle of all kinds of different book projects with all kinds of marketing strategies.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like your brain is is just filled with all this knowledge and with this insight and wisdom.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: And I wish we had like six hours to talk about all this stuff.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you have a family and a job, so you don't have that kind of time.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: So let's let let me dive in with this question.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: What are some of the cool things that have happened in your life and your business as a result of putting a book out there?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: And I know this is kind of a meta thing, it's a book on writing a book, but so yeah, this is this is a book, this is a product.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: You have a message, you've sold a lot of copies of it.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: What kinds of things have happened as a result of putting a book of yours out into the world?
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me give you some that happened fairly quickly after releasing the book.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, it's been, you know, seven, it's going on seven years now.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: So like been the things that have sort of cascaded from the initial.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes we expect the results that come immediately, that those are going to be the biggest and best results, but really they're just the start.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I'll say that when I first released the book in 2015, I was transitioning from being a solo freelancer to wanting to bring on a team of editors and start to grow that freelance business.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And a couple of things that it did for me right away is it helped me to um put my methodologies into a framework that made sense, that was replicable, right?
7:11
SPEAKER_00: So I could teach other people.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: I created a course, um, I started selling that course.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I um, you know, saw the value of my methodology.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I raised my prices so that I could accommodate team members.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And so it that was really the beginning growth of the business.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that was kind of me making the pivot from freelancer to okay, now we are a team, a business, a company that works with people on books, and it helped me kind of draw the line in the sand in that kind of internal way.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And I saw that reflected in, of course, book sales, but also course sales and also um clients at a paying me at a higher rate.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, so those were kind of like I felt that within the first six to 12 months.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Fascinating.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: That's really, really fascinating.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: So you felt like, well, not you didn't feel like so.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: This was an actual tangible thing where having a book out there really proved your credibility in the sense of, hey, Morgan knows what she's talking about.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: She's clearly an expert on this, therefore you can charge X percentage higher for what you're doing.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really cool.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was something that I don't know that I did consciously, but when people start reaching out to you via email and they're saying, Hey, I read I read your book.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to know if I can work with you directly.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that is like, holy moly, like this is I just changed the game, right?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And so it's one of those, you know, uh, I like to think of when you're growing a business, there's a cycle of competence and confidence.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: And um, it was like in writing the book, I proved myself my own competence, which um then also increased the the confidence I had in in my own ability to to grow the business.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, just like year, like, well, really, it was kind of week over week, month over month, year over year, just kind of selling more books.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And it I never hit any bestsellers' lists, so to speak.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was just a constant uh, you know, maybe I shouldn't say constant, but it was continued marketing.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: I used the Amazon algorithm to sort of get more visibility.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: We can talk about that.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, it it dives into geeky keywords and categories and promotions and traffic and things like that.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and really what I've seen since then is that like more people find me than I would have suspected, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, Kent, you found me on on.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And um, by the time you have a certain number of reviews, you are perceived as you know, an expert in that field because not only do you have the book, now you have the social proof on that book.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that does make a difference.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, you know, last month I was on Chandler Bolt's podcast.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: He has a phenomenally huge show.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Huge show.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: I have been featured on Ryan Levesque's stuff for internet marketing, and I don't know if writers are familiar with him, but he's another big internet marketer.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I've spoken on his stage to, you know, a thousand people because I had demonstrated my credibility.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I got opportunities to be in front of other people's audiences and they, you know, they with they hold that privilege for people who they feel like have really demonstrated that they know their stuff.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: And so, yep, it's a book.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is um reviews or social proof on that book, and it's also like having gotten results with that book, gotten, you know, you get in front of one person's audience and then you're able to leverage that onto another person's audience, and um, and that's where the visibility that that's sort of like there's like a halo, the kind of a halo effect that starts to really um accumulate.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: I love that cascading effect of you do one thing, kind of one small thing, not not that writing a book is a small thing, but you took action and you've actually finished a project, you had it out there, and then cool things happen as a result of that.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: And then I love this word that you used leverage, which is such a key principle, I think, of success in general.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: But particularly if you are a business owner or an entrepreneur, using one thing to get you more of the next thing and the next thing until it just grows bigger and bigger.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: That that's such a key concept.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, gosh, it's something I should have somebody on the the show sometime just explore that concept because it really involves some strategy and thinking and um some of the things that that we artists and writers and creatives struggle with sometimes because we just kind of want somebody to leave us alone so we can create stuff, you know.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll give you function that way that we use with our authors um is you know, you a podcast like this, like what we're doing now.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty simple.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: You and I put a time on the calendar.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: We showed up on Zoom, we're we're recording a podcast interview, right?
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Anyone can do this.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: And um, we say that look, your your book is coming out that gives you a reason to reach out to people who have a podcast show um that would be for your ideal audience and just let them know I have a book coming out, here's what the book's about.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: I think it'd be relevant to your audience for these reasons, and just get one, get one podcast interview.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And then when you wrap up that interview, if it was a great exchange, you know, thank you so much, so grateful to be on your show.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Is there anyone else that you think I could be connected with?
12:09
SPEAKER_00: And so you're using that one interview to hopefully expand into that host's network.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, just like you know, I before I was on Chandler Bold or Ryan Levesque's audiences, I was in front of, you know, smaller podcasts where we were really both just kind of getting started and we've been expanding our networks together over time.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: So don't be afraid to start with one podcast and ask that person, assuming it was a great, you know, a great conversation, ask them if there's anyone that you could be connected with, and of course, offer to connect them to anyone that you know as well.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: That's really how we all start expanding our networks.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely right.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: That's how I got my my second uh ghostwriting gig was just through a LinkedIn message, literally just a simple LinkedIn message, thanking somebody for the cool stuff that I had seen them doing over the years.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: So now the trick was that I had actually had a bunch of their friends on my podcast, and so I had a lot of connections, but I didn't actually know that person directly.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So I and I've told people this many, many times.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: My podcast has been the source of so many good things, even though my show is not really like a big massive show.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, just the relationships that you can build out of a podcast are so amazing.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And I know you're on podcasts all the time, and you believe in the power of podcasting.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's pretty awesome.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: I think we're only just beginning to see the power of podcasting, to be really honest.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And it is it is um one of the only like direct peer-to-peer like content distributions, like that you can put your podcast out in it can be on Apple, it can be on Spotify, it can be on um, you know, any of these sort of like open, you know, basically open source podcast players.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think podcasts is a fantastic uh companion to for to a book for an author.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Now you mentioned some some geeky marketing strategies, which I would I would love to hear about those because I believe geeks rule the world.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, geeks are behind, you know, nothing happens in society and culture without writers and without people who know computers.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: So if you can do one or both of those things, um you can pretty much do whatever the heck you want in life, I think.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So I know that you use some things like quarterly promos, um, freebies, um, starting an email list.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Those are some of the things that you use.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to hear more about Amazon algorithms or anything else that you want to share about some really effective um marketing strategies for your book on Amazon.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: I know it's a big question.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: I'll kind of I'll kind of go through what I would consider sort of like, you know, foundational material for anyone who's considering publishing a book on Amazon.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And although I have self-published and my company helps people to self-publish, I have worked with folks in this kind of way, whether even if they've hybrid published or traditionally published, um, assuming that the publisher is willing to kind of work with us in some of these strategies.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the first thing that we just we need to just acknowledge and become at peace with is that Amazon is a huge bookstore.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: It is it is just the largest bookstore.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And uh they they sell more than 70% of all books.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: So if you combine an ebook, paperback, hardback, audiobook, they sell more than 70% of the books.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: That was pre-COVID numbers.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And to be really honest, they don't even release all of their Kindle Unlimited sales.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: And so we we actually have no idea how big the Kindle store is because Amazon does not release that data and it is not captured in like the NPD scan.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, shrug.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of books, and we don't have to like it, we don't have to like Amazon.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: I might just suggest that we use Amazon while it is, you know, beneficial to us.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: So now here I'm I feel like I should know this, but I don't.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you know this.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: So lists like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, those do not take into account Amazon sales because those figures are not made public, correct?
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So Amazon does some amount of reporting, right?
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So then it is up to the the store to report to the NPD scan or the ABA, the American Booksellers Association.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: So Amazon will report numbers.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and Amazon has also been fairly clear that it does not report all the numbers.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So when you think about its Kindle Unlimited, which is its monthly subscription, the prime content, all of that, we really don't know how big that is.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Um so makes sense.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: So so yes, yes and no.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Um there are Amazon does report to the MPD scan to be uh for titles to be eligible for the the big bestsellers lists, and Amazon uh does not feel obliged to reveal all of its data.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Because they don't have to.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: Because they don't have to.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to when you're the big dog.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: So so I want to think about okay, for us as debut authors, right?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: That's who that's who I was when I first published my book.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: That's who we work with primarily as folks who are newer in their author career.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have one or two books, maybe it's their first book.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you might think, well, gosh, let me just get into Barnes and Noble and that will solve my problem.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, right?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Like your book gets, even if you go traditional publishing, your book gets distributed to Barnes and Nobles, and you have six weeks to go and sell those books from those Barnes and Nobles, and they are all across the country.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's why you go on a book tour.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, as debut authors, rather than trying to get everything in Barnes and Noble and go on a book tour, what I am suggesting is like, let's just leverage Amazon first.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: It's the biggest bookstore, it's where readers are getting discovered all the time.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And let's look at the actual ways that readers use the Amazon bookstore.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And there are two primary ways: one is keywords and one is categories.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: So keywords is what you type into that search bar.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: We are all being trained by all these algorithms how to type in um keywords into a search bar.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And um, we have found that if we can use long-tailed keywords, so these are three or four phrases, sad stories that make you cry is a long-tailed keyword.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Those long-tailed keywords are when someone types that in, it's because they're getting closer and closer to wanting to buy something.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, uh contrast that to a short-tailed keyword that might be um, you know, uh uh action adventure.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I I'm these are not actually matching, but let's uh let's say someone typed in something like action adventure.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: That's a short-tilled keyword.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Probably what they're gonna do is scan the list of what Amazon returns as a search result, and they're gonna say, eh, it's not really what I was looking for.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna go back up to the search bar and they're gonna type in something more specific.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I do this, like this is how I've been trained, you know.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: And so as they go back to that search bar, they type in something more specific.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: What that means is they're getting closer and closer to buying something that correlates to what they are looking for.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: That's our experience.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Dave Chesson of Kindlepreneur, he's the one who puts out the publisher rocket software.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Joanna Penn, these indie publishing folks, when we compare notes, that's kind of what we find is that these long-tailed keywords indicate that people are getting closer and closer to wanting to buy and they have less competition.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: So that is so I recommend check out Dave Chesson.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: He is sort of like the uh the the go-to guy.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: He's great.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Dave Chesson, Kindlepreneur, he's got a ton of great videos on this.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, this is this is not anything new to Indie publishing world.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: But if you're hearing this for the first time, like dive down this rabbit hole because it is it is extremely valuable.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: You can find long-tailed keywords that might have a hundred thousand views per month.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So a hundred thousand searches for sad.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't quote that because I don't remember the stat right off the top of my head.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: But something like sad stories that make you cry, and maybe there's fewer than a hundred competition.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: What that means is your book is going to get returned in that search result pretty high up.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's a way of getting eyeballs on the book.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: So keywords can help you get eyeballs on the book for anyone who's browsing Amazon, looking for a new book, look using the keywords.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: The other way is categories.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: So um, categories, the way that Amazon uses categories is um when you're on a main sales page and you scroll down just a little bit, there's a browsing bar that's a horizontal sort of it shows lots of pictures of other products, might be products related to this item, books you might like, other customers also bought, um, and it'll show the little book covers.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things, one of the aspects that that Amazon's looking for in populating that browsing bar is the category.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And so it's almost like you get to put your book on somebody else's sales page.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: So if you can find the categories where your peers are and you can make sure that you are in the same category as them, that will increase the likelihood that your book will be shown on their on their sales page.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I do this, I scroll through, I hit those little side arrows on the left and the right and look through uh, you know, products related to this item, and I go down that rabbit trail sometimes.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And again, we're being trained in this sort of way.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: So these are just ways of getting eyeballs on the book.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: So keywords and categories, super important for the ebook, especially.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: You get seven keywords to choose from and you get 10 categories.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And Amazon's talking about increasing those numbers on the ebook.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: And then we run promotions on the ebook because what's great is when someone clicks the ebook, they're on the sales page and they see all versions of the book.
21:52
unknown: Okay.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: So when you market the ebook, you market all versions of your book, right?
21:56
SPEAKER_00: They click the thumbnail and then they are on the sales page and like, oh.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Kent's book is also available as a paperback and a hardback and an audiobook.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And they can buy whatever they want.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: You just need to get the click, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: You need to get them onto the sales page.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: So is that not true whenever whenever they click on the paperback version of something, it's also going to show them?
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Or is there something unique about really promoting the ebook so that it shows all the versions?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, does it matter which version that you promote?
22:23
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Any version they click on will show the sales page with all versions.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Amazon's bookstore sort of subtly drives people toward the ebook because Amazon's right.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: It kind of defaults to that, doesn't it?
22:36
SPEAKER_01: In some way.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: When you are in the bookstore and um, so you can you can experiment this with experiment with this on yourself.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: When you go to the Amazon store, you go to the bookstore and you start typing in search terms and clicking on those thumbnails, it's going to default take you to the the ebook.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: I I never, I mean, I have noticed that before, but I never really thought about it.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: I just thought, well, there's probably a reason they're doing it.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And then I just proceeded to go by the paperback typically.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and a lot of people do.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I still sell paperback versions of my book, um, but we get to use the ebook with extra keywords, extra categories.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: I like to have my book and I recommend our author's books be in the KDP Select.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And I know this is a little bit contentious, um, but the the um KDP Select, which stands for Kindle Direct Publishing Select, it's their their program where your book is exclusive, your ebook is exclusive with their platform, meaning it is not on iBooks, it is not on Google Play, uh, it is not on draft digital or any of those.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: I recommend that if it's your first book and you're a debut author and you're looking for eyeballs, put it in KDP Select and let's run some promotions to get as many eyeballs on the Amazon platform as we can.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: So we like to run a five-day free promotion of the ebook, because when someone um downloads the ebook for free and then leaves a review, it's a verified purchase review, which is weightier in the Amazon algorithm.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: So reviews matter, reviews matter a lot.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And in our experience, reviews matter more and more all the time.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, we we see it in like side-by-side launches.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, even if the download rate is similar, like let's say both books are getting, you know, 500 or 600 downloads um in the first couple of days.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: The book that has the most reviews will move up most quickly in uh towards those number one rankings.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And so the reviews matter a lot.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: So we talk, we both um, you know, work with our authors on their book launch team, which is where you send an advanced review copy on launch day, they download the ebook and then they leave the review.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: So it's a verified purchase review.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: We have our own editorial review team.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: People who have agreed, if it's a book I'm interested in, I will take a, you know, an advanced review copy and provide an honest review, right?
24:56
SPEAKER_00: That's that's totally kosher with Amazon terms and services and um terms and conditions.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we absolutely use that uh that that ability inside of that first five-day free promotion.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And then I leave my book in KDP select, and every single quarter, every 90 days, you get a new five days, and I just re-promote it.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: I call the my quarterly relaunch.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Every quarter, I just set the ebook for free for five days, and Amazon algorithm kicks in and starts showing it more widely because it wants to see, it wants to help find the right readers um to get more eyeballs on that book.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So I absolutely um take that, take advantage of that.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: So so we cannot find your ebook on like Barnes and Noble Nook or Kobo or anything else.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just on Amazon all the time.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Because that's where most ebooks are sold, correct?
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: The paperback is available on BarnesNoble.com, paperback and hardback, um, or bookshop.org, or you know, like there are other sites where you can get the book, but it is the the um paperback and hardback.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, your your Moby, EPUB, KPF files, like your ebook files, um, are only on the Amazon platform.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are many arguments about where the PDF falls in this, and I I don't know that I want to get into that deep of a water uh on the on the PDF, but I will say for sure your Moby, EPUB, KPF files, uh, or is it KFP, whatever the Kindle version.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whatever it is, I don't know.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: On Kindle, and Kindle's the biggest e-reader still.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I I don't think this is gonna last forever.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, right now Amazon still is uh buying up you know any of the intellectual property around e-readers because they want to maintain um their their stranglehold on the ebook market.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Um and while they have the stranglehold, like I'm gonna I'm gonna use it because they're giving me um, you know, direct access to not direct, it is through Amazon, right?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: So it is technically indirect, but they're they're I'm able to get access to to readers just by playing the Amazon game.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Now, where do the the long tail keywords come into it?
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So if you have you know a longer phrase, uh like stories that make people cry, something like that.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Is there is there space to add a phrase and not just a keyword in when you're putting your keywords?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Fascinating, fascinating.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right in the when you go to upload the files, you put in the ebook details, you just put in the whole phrase into there's like seven blanks.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: I it's been it's been a while since I've been into to the back end of my Amazon stuff.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So that's really interesting.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I probably should go ahead and take a look at that for my own for my own.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Anybody can do it, right?
27:39
SPEAKER_00: If you're hybrid published or traditionally published, and if the publisher agrees to it, you could give them the keywords that you want loaded into the ebook and the categories you want loaded into the ebook.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Many publishers just don't even realize that that's an option.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: They're so trained by the old school system of two keywords, two categories, that's it.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's a lot more to play with in the ebook side of Amazon.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Man, lots of, and of course, I know this rabbit hole goes really, really deep.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And there's like there's a whole sub-industry devoted to becoming Amazon bestseller and keywords and categories and research and and all those kinds of things, promos and stuff.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: So the last thing I want to uh I want to cover about this sort of Amazon strategy, right?
28:21
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about getting eyeballs, right?
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, visibility with the keywords and the categories.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: We talked about social proof, right?
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Getting reviews on the book.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: And um, my recommendation for the best way to get reviews on the book is to run a free promotion of the ebook and have everyone that you know download the ebook for free and leave a review.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then of course, Paper Raven, we have our editorial routine team do the same.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the last part is um building up your own readership.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: So the problem that every author faces, you know, it doesn't matter where you're selling your book, the problem is that when you sell it through a bookstore, the reader is actually the bookstore's customer, not your customer.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So Barnes Noble keeps the customer data, Amazon keeps the customer data, even your local independent bookstore is going to keep the customer data.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: That's their customer.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you get in front of your readers?
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, the industry's answer to this has been well, go build a social media platform.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Who wants to build a social media platform?
29:20
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to build a platform with Facebook followers and Instagram followers.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: So true.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, oh, this is, you know, it's frustrating, especially when you're just trying to get the book out.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And the book is the thing that people are going to be most interested in.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: So what we do is we put what's called a freebie or a reader magnet or a list builder inside of the book.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know that all publishers are going to agree to do this, but if you can, I would highly recommend that somewhere in the book there is a way for someone to go to a link and provide their email address in exchange for something free.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So in your nonfiction books, that could look like um, you know, a PDF checklist, a uh a guide, a video course, an MP3.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: I use the audiobook.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Um could be anything that is just helpful on the topic that the book is written about.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So they might go to, you know, Kent Sanders.com/slash book bonus.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And when they go to that page, they can put their email address and they can get the, you know, what hundred daily writer prompts or whatever the freebie is.
30:27
unknown: Right.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: We put that right at the front of the book.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, after there's there's some interesting strategies around placement.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Is it before the table of contents?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Is it after the table of contents?
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Is it after the introduction?
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, because when someone looks inside the book from the Amazon website, we want them to see that there is a freebie in the book.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of look and see where Amazon's putting uh the look inside starter marker.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I might recommend after the introduction is the safest place because the reader will be browsing the Amazon sales page.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: They'll they're looking at, you know, your your book and the title, subtitle, and description.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: They click look inside, look inside will bring them to a place in the book, and that's probably the introduction.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: And then you want the freebie to be after that.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's I would say nonfiction, great strategy there.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: For fiction, I would say that I would put the freebie at the end.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: And I would say, look, they read your reader read all the way through your book.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: They're obviously a great fan, you've left them hanging at the end of the book or wanting more, give them a character backstory or an alternate ending or a deleted scene or a preview of the next book.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's you know, it's uh title of book.com slash bonus one or something like that.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: And they go to a page, they provide their email address, and then they um they get the free thing.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And it could be a link, it could be a QR code.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're we have you know more options these days.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: And when they when they submit their email address, it gets stored in what's inside what's called an email service provider.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, mail or light is an example of an email service provider.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: And uh I would recommend setting up an autoresponder sequence such that the first email is the free thing, the checklist or the preview or whatever it was that you promised.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And the second email, seven days later, is a request for a review.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Hey, so and so, thanks so much for checking out the book.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Hope you've really enjoyed it.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I would love it if you would leave a review on my on the Amazon page.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And then 21 days after that, another email that says, Hey, in case you, you know, didn't get a chance, uh, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a review on the book.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Here's a link to leave a review.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: So three emails.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Deliver the freebie, seven days after that, request a review, 21 days after that, request another review.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: That is how I got 1200 reviews on my book.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Just by doing this every quarter for well, how many years?
32:55
SPEAKER_01: 2015 for seven years?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: It's the power of those, well, really those three things.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Set uh I, you know, set up the keywords and categories, run that free promotion every single quarter to get eyeballs.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: And then when they come to my book, they see my uh freebie and they give me their email address and they provide a review.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Not everybody does, but a few do every week, and it adds up over time.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: So, how did you choose um how did you choose the title of your book?
33:23
SPEAKER_01: So the title is start writing your book today, the subtitle, a step-by-step plan to write your nonfiction book from first draft to finish manuscript.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Now, as a ghostwriter, here's my analysis of your title and subtitle and all the things that I think it does right.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think it's a great title.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Instead of how to write your book, start writing your book today.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: So those start and today, in my mind, are two really, really important words there because I think those are emotional hooks for the for the reader.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: And then the subtitle, a step-by-step plan.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: I think that tells people it's gonna be obviously step by step, they can do it.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Um you identify what kind of a book, it's a nonfiction book, and then you include from first draft to finished manuscript.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: So you include the scope of what they're actually going to learn.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I think this is one of the best nonfiction book titles I've seen in a while, honestly.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: I can I can tell you've put a lot of thought into this, and it's really, really good.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot to there's a lot that people can learn from how well you have crafted your title and subtitle there.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what I was thinking seven years ago.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: It's great, it's really, really good.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: I remember thinking that I wanted I wanted to the main title to convey what I felt like my reader was thinking.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just want to start writing my book today um and really kind of tapping into what the conversation that might already be happening inside of their head.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: That's that's a marketing thing, right?
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Is that we want to be um we want to be can conveying or or um relaying or somehow like um echoing what is going on inside of our reader's head already.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: And there's that sort of like desire to stop procrastinating and to start writing your book today.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: I didn't want it to be negative, so I didn't want to say stop procrastinating.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I want it to be on the positive side.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do instead?
35:11
SPEAKER_00: This is what you actually want to do.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: You actually want to start writing your book today.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really, really, really great.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: And then I like being straightforward and just telling them exactly what's inside the thing.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which which is helpful.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: People just want to see and they want to know what I'm gonna get out of this nonfiction book.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: So in essence, you're you're promising this is what you're gonna learn, which the book does fulfill.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: So well done.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Very well done.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, as we head into the home stretch of this conversation, I would love to just chat for a minute about where you see uh the world of books and and writing and self-publishing and traditional publishing going in the next uh five or 10 years.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And so by the year 2030, what do you think might happen in this world?
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Are we going to be going more towards self-publishing, more away from it?
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, what can we maybe expect things to happen here?
36:00
SPEAKER_01: And even you know, as we think as we see things like crypto and um um sorry, I'm totally blanking out on what's the thing that's related to crypto.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: NFTs, uh yeah, NFTs.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm just blanking out on it.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, blockchains, blockchains right.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Blockchain.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, where do you think all this stuff is heading?
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Because your head is in this all the time.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just just curious.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: I truly believe this is like the best time to become an author.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: I think that the next, like this generation of authors, like this, this, this wave of authors that's really coming onto the scene now.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: I think these are gonna be like the next famous authors, you know, that we're gonna know.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: I I think the you know, Stephen King's and and some of these folks, they've done amazing work that have been so powerful in our culture.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think we're we're ready for the next set of of you know of um authors who really represent um our culture and what we're thinking about.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: I think we'll have traditional publishers in the same way that we have Ivy League universities, right?
37:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's status, there's networking, there's there are things that are already kind of set up and um they will probably continue to exist for an amount of time.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: I think what we're gonna see more of is this peer-to-peer um connection that's going to be more powerful than we might even predict right now.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that, and I've sort of hinted at it in this interview, I think that um Amazon is is the big gorilla right now.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how long that's gonna last.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: As soon as we have open source e-readers, because an e-book is an HTML file, like not complicated.
37:44
unknown: Exactly.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Right?
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what Amazon has locked up right now is the the ease, the frictionless environment of buying a book and downloading it onto your e-reader and and reading it immediately, right?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: They've they've reduced all of that friction.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's no reason why we couldn't have another type of device, whether it's a phone or a tablet or glasses, Google Glass or something similar, that just pulls in the book content.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe, you know, I could go to your website, Kent, and and just you know, click up, do a QR code and send you, you know, some some ETH for your book.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: And you know, maybe it's a micro payment, and maybe every page that I read of your book, my wallet sends your wallet a micro payment for every page that I read.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't see why that wouldn't be possible.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to happen through Amazon's platform.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: So what that means is that for us, the authors, our relationships with our readers and our communities and our peers, I think is gonna be increasingly important.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're gonna be able to sell more and I think we're gonna sell online for sure.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: I think even when we sell in person, it is essentially going to be an online transaction that we just happen to be in the same physical space, right?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: We're sort of already there to some extent.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: And and so um, you know, I think that there's just gonna be a lot more freedom for the authors who have control over their own assets.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: So maybe they negotiate the contract with the traditional publisher in a different way.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe they choose to self-publish.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Certainly, you know, some of the big swingers in the industry, Gary Vaynerchuk and um Brandon Sanderson, are already sort of either saying out loud or hinting that like they might go, you know, indie themselves at some point.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I think we're gonna see a lot more of that like movement and fluidity between the different types of negotiated contracts that authors have with publishers and what they're gonna bring to the table.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: But basically, I think we're gonna see authors being able to sell directly to their readers in um in and and and distribute those books directly to their readers, receive payments from their readers, maintain contact with their readers, uh, maintain a community where maybe their readers have some sort of social token.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, you buy my book and I give you a social token, and now you're invited to my events, you know, my my private events or something like that.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be a lot more community around the author that I don't think is gonna have to involve Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or any of those things.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I think there's going to be an environment or some market of exchange where this is gonna happen more.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: It could be bookstores.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not giving up on bookstores yet.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Would be awesome if it was.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Could reinvent themselves to be a gathering place where these kinds of exchanges can happen in person if they want, if people want them to happen in person.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the metaverse is not gonna replace in person.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to add to in person, such that when you go to a bookstore, um, you can instead of only being able to access the books in front of you, you might be able to access any book that is for sale.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: But you get to sit in your favorite bookstore and you know, process the payment through your bookstore if you want to, you know, or there's a social token.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: I realize I'm I'm kind of all over the place, Ken.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, you can bring me in now.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: No, this is great.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: So much opportunity.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: And this is there's there's so much to be excited about.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't think this is a time to be scared or worried that the world is going to crumble down.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: I believe that everything is actually getting so much better for authors and for readers too.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'm super excited.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know if you're if you're planning a follow-up uh second book or if that's something you're thinking about.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: But should you ever think about a second book, and maybe you maybe you've already written one and it's not published or whatever it is, but this would make a really cool topic because you've clearly thought about this a lot, you're clearly passionate about it.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And because you are engaged with this in paper waven books, your company, every single day, you're right in the smack middle of this of all the cool marketing strategies and stuff that's on the edge.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: And and I love it.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: So I would buy that book if you ever wrote it.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: I it is it is in process.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm about 10,000, maybe 12,000 words in.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, the tricky thing is it's all changing so quickly.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how do I, you know, how do you write something that's foundational and and um addresses the main movement that's happening in an industry while trying to say somewhat evergreen.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what evergreen means anymore.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: So maybe it's on that balance.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, who knows?
42:30
SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's just dealing with financial principles, like you mentioned, owning your own assets.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: That is like just such a key fundamental principle of creatives today.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: You you've got to own your own stuff or have some measure of control over it.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be the big conversation, I think, for the next decade is yeah, how much if you partner with a publisher, how much of the asset do they own?
42:52
SPEAKER_00: What do you own?
42:53
SPEAKER_00: And um, what would a, you know, what would a buyout situation look like?
42:56
SPEAKER_00: I think, I think in I I think if if anyone's considering working with a hybrid or traditional publisher, I would suggest going in to ask about what a buyout situation would look like as you're negotiating that contract, because you might reach a situation in which you would want to buy them out.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: And just like, I mean, I don't have a prenup, but I can see the I can see the value in a prenup.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like we want to partner well together.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: And worst case scenario, if I end up wanting to buy out, what what could that look like?
43:28
SPEAKER_00: I think that would be a good thing to think about.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you're self-publishing, um, I think you're gonna have some advantages in this sort of blockchain crypto NFT space.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: And it may feel like it's an uphill battle.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is a bit of a you know, a slog to gather your readership around you, but take some of what we talked about today, um, you know, with getting your book out there um on Amazon, connecting with people who have audiences like podcasters, um, and starting to grow that readership.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And when you have even a small readership, I mean, I think I launched my book with like 75 people on an email list.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: It was not a big email list, right?
44:08
SPEAKER_00: But just starting with a small readership, that's going to give you a huge advantage as we move into this Web3-O world as an author.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think whatever that looks like.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Whatever that looks like.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Morgan, this has been an absolute blast.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: I just want to take a second to acknowledge how you have impacted a lot of readers through your book, through your company, through having, I would say through having the guts to start a company with like team members, because I just have started dipping into that the last few months.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a step from from kind of just being a solopreneur.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: So I really applaud you for that.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm watching what you're doing because I'm learning from you on this whole journey.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for investing your time and energy into helping authors be successful, whether it's publishing their own stuff through through stuff with Paper Raven, your company.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, I just think it's wonderful and I really appreciate it.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: So thanks for making time to come on the show today.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: This has been awesome.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kent.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Super fun and always glad to help a fellow author for sure.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing your audience with me today.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Totally my pleasure.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: And let me wrap up with this.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Can you point people to where they can connect with you, your book, and paperwaven as well?
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Easiest thing to do is go to paperavenbooks.com and you can check out how we work with authors.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: I have a quiz on the website.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: So we can talk about which publishing path is right for your book, and you can take that quiz and find out some cool information.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my book is available on Amazon, is how I would recommend getting it.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Start writing your book today.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, thank you.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: There will be links to all that in the show notes.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, I had a blast talking to Morgan, and this is one of those conversations where she's just giving so many great tips for things.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to go back and re-listen to this a couple of times.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Actually, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna run this podcast through transcription.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna print it out, so I'm gonna go back and highlight all the things that I need to start doing in my own author business because Morgan is just dropping these uh I'm just gonna call them wisdom bombs.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's an actual thing.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like something that all the kids say on TikTok these days.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: But regardless of whether or not I sound like an 80-year-old man right now, uh Morgan was dropping wisdom bombs.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Lots and lots of good stuff that she was mentioning in this episode.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go through, print this sucker out, and I'm gonna highlight all the great things that she said because left and right, she's telling us really, really important things that we've got to do to start writing today and get our book finished.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: I hope that you enjoyed this as well, and I hope that this has encouraged you to start writing your book, to actually take those first steps toward getting your book done because it's easy to dream about it, it's easy to plan on it, it's easy to want to do it, but you actually got to take some action to get that book done.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: So make sure and grab Morgan's book, start writing your book today, and do what she says.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: Just start writing your book today.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: And before I close out this episode, I want to encourage you to check out the show notes for all the links that we mentioned here today.
47:01
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: If you've been listening to this show for any length of time, you know that one of the four practices of a great writer is creativity.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: And in order to stay creative, you've got to have great input.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's where writing prompts come in.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: A writing prompt is a sentence or two that helps you break through creative blocks, brainstorm new ideas, and get back into a state of flow.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Writing prompts are an awesome creative tool for journaling, storytelling, creative writing, stress relief, social media posts, and so much more.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: But the great news is that you don't have to create these yourself.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: We've put together an amazing package of 365 daily writing prompts.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: So every day for the next year, you can have a shot of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: You can check it out at dailywriterlife.comslash writing prompts.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.