Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / Courtney Love and MK Ultra (Repost)

Transcript

Courtney Love and MK Ultra (Repost) · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy, the show, with your hosts, Adam Todd
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Brown and Conor McSpadden.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Hey everybody, welcome to Conspiracy, the show.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: I'm Adam Todd Brown. I'm Connor McSpadden.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Who are you? I'm Travis fucking Clark. You're here again.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't leave.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're not my real dad. That doesn't matter because
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: it's a podcast, but it's still true.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is true.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Although, how's everyone been since we recorded last, like, five,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: ten minutes ago?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: A little more hydrated.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Chilling, yeah.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Smoked some cigarettes. We drank some water.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: We're killing it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And now we're ready to talk about Courtney Love possibly
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: being a CIA operative.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Speaking of killing it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: This is, everything in this episode comes from the same
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: book we referenced last time, Drugs as a Weapon Against Us.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: Potash. By Mr.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Potash.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mr. Potash!
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: It sounds like a terrible breakfast dish that they serve
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: you in the South.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Like, oh yeah, potash.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: It's just potato skin, just the skin, and then they
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: mix it with pig feet.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: It's potash.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: And hash.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: A little bit of hash in there, too.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: And this is a book that I suspect on this
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: podcast we're going to get about 25 episodes out of,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: because it's a billion pages long, and it covers so
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: many different things. But today, specifically, we're talking about Courtney
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Love and the possibility that she was, as part of
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the MKUltra program, our favorite mind control program on this podcast.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: And there's stiff competition.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Is it mind control but controls with a K? Is
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that what MK stands for?
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: No, I went through.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I forget what it was.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: We went through it last time.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: There was the MK... Yeah, I don't remember.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, MK Ultra does sound like one of those
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: low-carb beers. I've been drinking MK Ultra, man. I've been really.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. I've been trying to take care of myself.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: I've been meditating and drinking MK Ultra.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from Drugs as a Weapon Against Us.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Despite some singing talent, much of Love's life makes her
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: appear a fantasy driven drug addict seeking glory by marrying
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: a rock star or becoming one. However, closer scrutiny suggests
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: she may have been groomed or conditioned from an early
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: age to carry out some U.S. intelligence tasks. So buckle up, listeners. Okay,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: first off, off the bat, that is a crazy sentence.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: This is not your grandfather's Kurt Cobain conspiracy.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: This is like, okay, that's a pretty crazy theory. And
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: then it gets crazier. That's the thing about MKUltra. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: bring it up whenever people are dismissive of conspiracy theories.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories in general. It's like, sometimes this shit is real. Yeah.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, they did it for like 30.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Years, a long time. You know, when it was first
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: found out, they, the government's big sticking point is people
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: were like, Hey, the government's doing this massive, like mind
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: control experimentation thing. And the government was like, It's not massive.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: But then we found documents.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Very focused.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: But then we found documents that revealed that it was
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: like a nationwide thing that went into other countries.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Well, what broke the MKUltra story?
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Misfiling some of the records for it, because a lot
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: of them had been destroyed. And then other ones that
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: were kind of like transferred over from just like a
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: dutiful fire clerk who's like, oh, yeah, we got some
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: of your peanut butter and our chocolate and then uh
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: someone fired the freedom of information act request and then
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: that's how we got like a sliver of uh what
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: was actually documented.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: About it and if you watch the wormwood documentary i
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: was gonna say wormwood is part of this right right
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: yeah that i think a lot of it probably came
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: out through the course of that investigation that's where courtney
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: love threw a guy out of a hotel exactly yeah she.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Dangled him by his ankles like suge knight.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: Courtney love is the comedian from watchmen.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that is a crazy-ass quote, but this is
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: not as crazy of a theory as it seems. It's crazy,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: but it's not as implausible as it sounds, especially given
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: what we know about MKUltra, which anyone listening to this,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: if you're listening for the first time, go back and
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: listen to our MKUltra episodes and learn up on that shit.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some fun ones.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Really does sound like it's like it's a high reward
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: point oh you gotta get the mk ultra episodes those.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: Are the yeah it's like someone trying to upsell you
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: on a pontiac it's like well if you get the
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: mk ultra suspension it's guaranteed for three years uh it
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: comes with a sunroof yeah so let's.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Talk about linda carol oh good old lc she is
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: courtney loves mom.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: And not hot mom like we saw with her yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Just courtney loves plain ass mom but although i bet
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: she was All right.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It took a lot of Kurt to make Francis pretty.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: That's pretty funny.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Courtney is aggressively not my type. Have you seen
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: how Francis just doesn't really like?
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, I don't know. Like, Dumb's a good song,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: but I don't really like Nirvana.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which fuck her. Nirvana's a good band. Yeah, Nirvana's
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: a good.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Shut up. What are you talking about?
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: Idiot.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: So it's Adam's birthday. He gets to be a little.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Let me call Kurt Cobain's daughter an idiot.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: He gets to be on his.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Shut up, you half orphan. Orphan.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So Linda Carroll, she was the adopted daughter of a
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: family with major stock holdings in both the Bausch and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Lohm Company and gold mining.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: What? What?
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: Rich family not gold digging am i right guys come
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: on oh fucking conspiracy dice clay over.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Here she gave birth to courtney michelle harrison on july
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: 9th 1964 that doesn't fit at.
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: All more like whoreson oh hoes you get it In fact,
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: Courtney Love is the exact same astrological sign of every
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: crazy person I've ever dated.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Well, that's proof right there that she killed somebody.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: There's no way you're an astrology guy.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: No, I'm into it.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Are you really?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it. I'm into it. I think it's
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: very accurate.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Astrology. Not astronomy. Astrology.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I think people's signs are actually a representation of what
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: their personality is like. Because anytime I tell people I'm
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: a Pisces, they're like, oh, you might kill yourself someday.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, that's accurate. I guess you're right.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: But so, I mean, I think maybe there's something to
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: the notion that people born, it's like November babies are
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: usually football players.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: What?
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Because there's a certain age where if you're born, then
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: you just miss one year of school cutoff.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: So the fact that you're a little bigger.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: Than the other kids just from how quickly you kind
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: of develop as a very young child. You're more encouraged
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: to go into sports and stuff like that. So just
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: most football players are born in November. I don't know
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: if that's the exact month. But I think there's a
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: little bit of something like that that could be a play. But,
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, further than that, this seems very uncharacteristic for
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: somebody for you to be into.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I host a conspiracy theory podcast where I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: believe like 70% of them are minimal. It would be
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: amazing if Connor was like, I didn't know. I had
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: no idea.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: You host that?
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I listen to it.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: It's good. It just doesn't seem like you're– I'm not
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: begrudging you for it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not like– I don't study it, but
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree that there's something to– astrological signs and
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: a person's personality.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You don't disagree that a very open-ended sentence could apply
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: to almost anyone?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Why would I disagree with that?
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Joe Dosh had a great bit about how astrology just
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: makes you a space racist.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: You're just discriminating. You're like, I don't date Pisces. And
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: it's like, how is that different than saying a black guy?
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: You're a space racist.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. I am a space racist.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Get that drop.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So her dad, I never knew this, Hank Harrison- briefly
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: managed the Grateful Dead when they were still called the
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Warlocks and sucked even more than they did when they
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: became the Grateful Dead.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Grateful Dead suck ass, dude.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were trash. Yeah, I'm not a fan.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Don't get it.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, Grateful Dead bassist Phil Lesh is her godfather. Her godmother,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, is a woman named Del Non
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Winblad DeMarco. What? Who's obviously up to some shit with
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: a name like that.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: She's a Warcraft villain? Winblad DeMarco, the king of the trolls.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: And DeMarco's husband was a right-wing type who owned a
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: huge ranch in Delano, California.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's Delano.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Delano, yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Delano, what?
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: They got a good farming museum there that I went
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: to one time.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And he was one of migrant farm worker organizer Cesar
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Chavez's biggest foes.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, with a name like Winblad DeMarco, you can't
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: be a good guy.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Courtney was born about 16 months before the acid tests
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: at which the Grateful Dead performed.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: That was the Ken Kesey shit, right?
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: That was the Ken Kesey shit.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: What is the acid tests? What exactly?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Tune in, drop out, all that shit, right? Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: It was like the public version of MKUltra, where they
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: were just like, hey, what if we give everyone LSD
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: and just see what happens?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone figured out that LSD was, they figured out
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: how to make it. And then it was just. you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: got together you listen to a shitty band like grateful
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: dead you're like this is terrible yeah you took acid
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you're like that's not so bad yeah yeah.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And what's crazy about that that's not unlike what happened
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: with mk ultra MK ultra, a big part of it
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: was just giving people acid and seeing what happened. And
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: that's what led to the Frank Olson murder and all
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: that shit. But what we also know about MKUltra is
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of it happened in San Francisco. The CIA
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: set up brothels and fucking drugged people with LSD. And
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: it's worth noting this conspiracy posits that not only is
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Courtney Love connected to the CIA, but was trained as
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: a prostitute. by the CIA.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: How much training did she need?
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, she took to it like a champ. It
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: was not MK ultra.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Like the, the experiments were really on some like Joseph Mengele,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: like throw a dartboard at a body part and a crime.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: And just be like, what if we try to replace
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: your tits with cats.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: And it was just, then they're just like, yeah, we'll
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: give you heroin and see if you're better at math.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Like it was just very random. Uh, But what's crazy
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: is we know it all happened.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: And we know when and we know where. And Courtney
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Love at the very least was there. She was in
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: the area where all the MKUltra shit was really happening
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in San Francisco.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: About- The CBGB of MKUltra.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. The title of this episode sounds crazy,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: but as you go through.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It, shit kind of adds up. It doesn't sound that crazy.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: And the first being that she was raised in San
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Francisco by a mother who had Deep connections to the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: acid test scene and just that movement in general. Right
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: when MKUltra was happening. And had that Bausch and Loeb cash.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: She had some money.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't even remember those two names. They're off
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: the Google Doc now. Those were lost to me. Well,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: good poll.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Bausch and Loeb. They're the eyeglass people. Contact lenses and
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: all that shit.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They had some fucking deep pockets.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: So the Linda Carroll was in the book says intimately
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: connected to drug users in Ken Casey's acid test scene
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: where during these acid test parties, there were MK ultra
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: scientists who showed up at these things because the dude with.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: Like a fucking square cut haircut, just like, God damn it.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Why do we have to listen to this shit?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's what we were doing kind of as
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: a country at the time, was just seeing.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: What we could do with acid. So Ken Kesey's sitting around.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: He's like, Cuckoo's Nest fucking was awesome. I guess I'll
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: just go hang out with the dead now and drive
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: around in the magic bus. Is that what's happening? I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: don't know a lot about Ken Kesey. Ken Kesey.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Because I fucking hate the Grateful Dead so much.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: So the magic bus, which we all know, the Who song.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: was about Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters who did
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the acid test. They drove around in a school bus
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: and just gave acid to people during the acid test shit.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: You know who else did that? The American government.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying... Just as a whole. As a whole.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: But see, that's the thing.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Just the bus wasn't decorated as fun. It was just
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: a black van.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kind of making jokes, but what happened with
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: the acid test does parallel how MKUltra worked, where they
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: would just give people acid and see what the fuck
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: How's this going to go? Allegedly, someone who may be
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: related to me was in the military. Are you alleging
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that they were in the military?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I'm alleging what the story is, that there was some
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: acid going around in the government, I'm sorry, in the army,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and they just gave it to him, and he stood
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: on a desk and went, I'm very tall, and made
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: other people who were his subordinates come in and tell
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: them that he was tall.
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: Is he?
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Not really. He's about my height. Same height as me.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: But when you stand on a desk and you're on acid. Oh,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: acid is so great. MKUltra, to me, seems like a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: government experiment that did not go the way they expected.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Fucking new Unpops podcast, Acid Test. Okay, Chet Wilde, every week.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: I'm way down. Locked in a cage with children's toys,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: and we film him.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I would be into that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: This whole thing is like Jacob's Ladder.
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It gets so much weirder. We know her mom did
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: have connections to that scene. A scene where MKUltra was active. Also,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and this isn't conspiracy theory talk. These are Courtney Love's
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: own words. One, she says she was given acid at
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the age of three.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: She claims her dad did it, but there's all these
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: different But also, what we do know for sure, her
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: mom put her in psychotherapy at the age of three.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: You don't even have memories at three.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have the vocabulary to communicate the complexities
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: of your psyche. I mean, what, are you going to
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: draw a picture? Like, what's the game plan there?
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And at the time she put her in psychotherapy, they
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: were living in San Francisco, where a lot of the
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: MKUltra stuff was happening. And specifically, let me find the
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: guy's name by just typing in John. John Gittinger. He'll
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: come up a lot more in this, but he was
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: one of the main MKUltra researchers, and he was a
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist based in San Francisco.
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And that gets important later. But Courtney Love claims at
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: the age of three that She was taken to a psychiatrist,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: and her claims get crazier from there.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: But why?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: But just that alone, right?
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: That alone, why are you sending your kid to a
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist at the age of three?
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: How much of a bitch did you have to be
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: at three years old?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Was she like, I'm going to kill Kurt Cobain someday?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I want to grow up and kill Gwung. Okay.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: I want to not write my own album. I don't
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: even believe that one, but.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: You don't believe she didn't write that album?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: No.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: You think Kurt wrote it?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I think Billie wrote it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I think Billie wrote the second one. Oh, the second one.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Celebrity Skin.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Billie Corgan himself is like, yeah, I was kind of
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: just showing them some shit I was working on and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: didn't think that was going to end up on their album.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: But whatever.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And they do sound like Smashing Pumpkins songs.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: That's for sure.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, she was raising Courtney Love in San Francisco
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: at this time. She also lived near Santa Clara Valley
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Medical Center, a confirmed MKUltra testing location.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Confirmed. Well, that's the thing. That's what's so.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Great about MKUltra. This shit is confirmed.
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Because we got documents that proved it. There were hundreds
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: of hospitals.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Adam is birthday drunk and excited.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: There were hundreds of hospitals around the country that participated
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: in this. Sometimes they knew, sometimes they didn't.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: That was the original Rick and Morty sauce at McDonald's,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: was you had to want to find an MKUltra hospital
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: where you could go get electrocuted.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I like that you go there and there's a little
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: check mark, like it's verified. Oh, it's been verified.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, it's good.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: It's up in the window. You got a little decal,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: like it's MKUltra approved.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Just a little piece of blotter paper. What does that mean?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: What's the window pane with a check next to it mean?
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So in federal hearings on CIA projects in 1995, two women,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Chris DiNicola and Claudia Mullen, testified that they were victims
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: of MKUltra experiments in Subproject Monarch starting at the age
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: of three years old.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Subproject Monarch?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Three years old, just like Courtney Love.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Just like Courtney Love. That's weird. I love their bands, though,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Chris DiNicola and Claudia Mullen. They were in Babes in Toyland.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. I don't think it's true either.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Citation needed. Citation needed.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: So DeNicola and Mullen testified that LSD, trauma, and hypnosis
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: were used on them.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Trauma?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: From infancy until the age of 16 to help turn
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: them into prostitutes and assassins for the CIA.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: You're making like a gritty reboot of Charlie's Angels here.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Is that what you're doing?
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: We're trying to turn you guys into a TNT original drama,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: so if you wouldn't mind.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Rizzoli and Isles, but LSD and trauma.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And Mullen testified that MKUltra superstars John Gittinger and Sidney Gottlieb,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: who we've talked about a bunch on this podcast, did
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the experimental training on her. So now we have Sidney Gottlieb,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: who we know at least was involved in the Wormwood shit,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: probably the assassin in the Wormwood shit.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And now his name's coming up.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: In this also.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So John Gittinger, the guy that we threw three-year-old Courtney to.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Oh, fuck.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Was working for MKUltra. Cool. Yeah, it's great. And Mullen's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: account was detailed extensively in a book called Mass Control,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: written by Jim Keith. And that book also includes similar
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: stories from two other women. It also mentions a 1992
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: speech by psychologist Dr. Corden Hammond To an audience of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: psychology professionals at a regional conference on abuse and multiple personality,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Hammond interviewed therapists nationwide to find that in about two-thirds
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: of ritual abuse cases, perpetrators used, quote, a highly developed
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: in uniform technology of mind control. And he further claimed
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: that many of these cases had connections to the CIA
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: and military and employed a type of technology originally created
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: by the CIA. And that's what we know about MK ultra.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: They were, trying to develop mind control technology.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: So what is the idea? You give someone so much trauma,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: they develop another personality, and that's the one that you're
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: trying to activate?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: We'll get to it later, but that's actually John Gittinger.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: That was his focus, was split personalities.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: He was trying to, like, you know how you can
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: reboot your computer and start Linux?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: He was trying to do that with, like, little slutty
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: kids or whatever.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they had slut training.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: They went to slut cotillion that the government sent them to.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, John Gittinger becomes really interesting in this story, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the fact that he focused on split personalities, and then
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about it later, but people like Kristen Pfaff,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And Courtney Love's own dad have gone on record and
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: said that Courtney Love just kind of cycles in and
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: out of different personalities. And at some points, that personality
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: is very violent, which is cool. So that's interesting.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: What a fun lady.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: One of the groups that, in this speech, Hammond claimed
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: practiced this was the Process Church, which was located in
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. They were tied to the Manson family.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, fun.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Another place that loved guns and violence and LSD and
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: split personalities.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah. I feel like if we did an episode
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: about the Manson family, we'd find some shit where we
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: were like, Did the government kill Sharon Tate?
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: There's just a lot. They kind of pop up.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: In the late 20th century in entertainment, there's always someone
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: who knew someone in the Manson family.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So the question at this point, Courtney Love enters psychotherapy
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: at the age of three. Is that a normal thing, or.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Is it so crazy to suggest that maybe it was
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: an MKUltra thing?
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's not a normal thing at all.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: While it does sound like some shit that parents in
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: San Francisco would do, it's like start you off on
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: psychotherapy at the age of three. I think the proximity
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: to these facilities and her family's background kind of suggests
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: that she seems like a likely candidate.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's all circumstantial evidence, but people go to
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: prison over circumstantial evidence. I'm not here too worried about that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Devil's Advocate. Could she have just been a problem child?
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: You rang?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Hey, Devil, how are you, bud?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: I'm doing good, bud.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: You sound like my friend Alex.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alex is one of my favorite
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: vessels to communicate through.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I just wanted to propose this question. Do you
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: think it could just be a wealthy family you have
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: with a difficult child, and the idea is, Go fix
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: her brain, because we can't get her to do something.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: You know, Courtney Love is a saint.
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: I personally spent thousands of hours talking with her over
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: a cup of shade-grown Arabica bean coffee.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: And I found her to be very personable, and there's
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: no showing that she was a difficult child.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: I'm done. I can't.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I'm out.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, that is possible, but.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks, devil. Who sends a three-year-old to psychotherapy? That's rich
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: people who can afford to.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I was just in San Francisco. People in San Francisco.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Do we... Yeah, I mean, that's definitely possible.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: Especially at this time when this kind of shit is
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: all very new and hip, you know?
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Right, but it is also still happening in the area
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: where MKUltra was happening. And we'll talk more about John Gittinger.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I think John Gittinger was the psychiatrist Courtney Love was
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: sent to. That kind of becomes the implication here. And
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: at that point, whatever reason they sent her to psychotherapy,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: what's really important is what happened to her during that psychotherapy.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I like the idea, though, of this family, this family
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: with wealthy means, the young daughter. And they hear about MKUltra,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and they're like, we need to plan for her future.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: What do we need to do? I think she'd be
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a great slutty assassin.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And the thing about her mom being from a wealthy family,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: her mom was like, a complete fuck up by this point.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, so strange that Courtney loves mom. It's a total
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: fuck up.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: She was just like moving from area to area and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: taking her daughter sometimes leaving her behind. Sometimes they weren't
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: rolling in gold. Her family had money. We don't know
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: that she did that necessarily trickled down to her by
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: this point, because her mom at this point is like
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: following the grateful dead around the country. So maybe she
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: had the money to support that, but I don't get that.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: She was like this San Francisco yuppie, waiting for computers
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: to break so she could follow her real passion. Like,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Here's what I think about Courtney Love's mom. I think
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: she was Courtney Love's mom.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that should say it all.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: I had to take a break to tweet, Courtney Love
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: is the Suge Knight of grunge. Because I think that's
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: pretty true. That seems pretty accurate. It's so crazy that
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Courtney Love seems like she should be dead. Like, it
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: doesn't seem like there should be a character like this
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: with all this crazy stuff going on that is still alive. Like,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: I really want to kind of see the deathbed confession
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: after she dies books by friends that kind of, like,
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: go into a lot of this stuff.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Because I feel like she's a person who's just been
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: around a lot of history.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, the guy from The Leaving Trains is terrified of her. Yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Her ex-husband. Her first husband.
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if he... One of her husbands
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: comes up in this. And, yeah, the thing... The other
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: weird question about Courtney Love is... Why do we not
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: have a long history of Courtney Love going to jail?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: We do, but for the wrong things.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but not for beating the shit out of Kathleen
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Hanna at Lollapalooza.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't know she did that.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: She just punched the shit out of her at a concert.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: She's a rebel girl, dude.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And there's all of these incidents of Courtney Love physically
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: assaulting people and never going.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: To jail for it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Why does that happen?
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Because she's a woman?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Is that what we want to lean on?
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: No.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Just because she's a woman? Fucking matriarchy ruling the world?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to respond to that.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It's weird. It's weird.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's probably rich at the time of these incidents.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: That's got to help.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like Cat Williams has decent cash and he
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: goes to jail every four months.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Right, but he doesn't have Nirvana money that won't stop coming.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Neither did Courtney Love. Courtney, Kurt Cobain had Nirvana money. Right,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: but now she is the heir to that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, now. And so now when you're at Lollapalooza
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: punching Kathleen Hanna in the face, you've got Nirvana lawyers
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and Nirvana money to keep you from going to jail.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure it's just that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I hope. Let's carry on.
• 26:56
  Speaker 7: I have reason to believe that Courtney Love is a
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: shapeshifter who takes the form of a passerby or a bystander,
• 27:03
  Speaker 7: and at which point she has imprisoned multiple clones of
• 27:06
  Speaker 7: which she has stockpiles in the billions.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: We're on this after I tell you about the good
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: folks over at Fancy Toothpaste.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: So this is another interesting point. At one point, Courtney
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Love's mom moves to New Zealand.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And at first leaves Courtney Love in Oregon, but eventually
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: flies Courtney Love out to Oregon. But that doesn't work
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: out well. So someone flies to New Zealand and brings
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Courtney Love back to the United States.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: What?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And that person who did it, her therapist. I'm not
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: in therapy, but I feel like, hey, come get me
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: from New Zealand first. is a boundary most ethical therapists
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: would not cross. I am in therapy, and I will
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: tell you what the rule is. The rule is you
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: cannot initiate contact outside unless you have permission. For instance,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: my therapist once saw me at a Del Taco, not
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: to brag, and left because he was like, oh, that's weird.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I can't. And he told me about it. He told
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: me about it the next time I saw him. He goes,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: my thing is if I see you in public, I
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: can't initiate contact. I can't because- People don't know who
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I am to you, and you're certainly not taking people
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to the airport. You're certainly not going to another country
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and accompanying somebody back. Right.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: This wasn't just that they picked her up at the airport.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: They fucking flew to New Zealand to fly her back
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: to LA.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: And John Gittinger will come up again in a little
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: bit in relation to that. But around the age of 14,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Courtney briefly moved in with Hank Harrison, and she tells
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: him that this psychiatrist that she's been seeing molested her.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Sweet.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: She also says he hypnotized her and gave her the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: psycho-hypnotic drugs Tuonol and Sequinol starting at least as early
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: as the age of seven.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Two of the worst Pokemon in the entire roster.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And Hank Harrison isn't the most trustworthy source, but I
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: like his explanation. He basically says, I believed Courtney. Because
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: what 14 year old would have knowledge of those drugs?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: We're not living in a Google age. There's no way
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you can.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, maybe she saw him lying around just at
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: some of the acid test parties.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, no, they're not living in a Google
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: age then.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. There's no way you can go
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: on and look that shit up and be like, oh,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I know this drug. because I typed in what are
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: drugs I could talk about and sound cool.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: You know, to know about those drugs, she had to
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: have some kind of experience with them. And, uh, MK
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: ultra researchers have cited CIA, CIA documents that detail their
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist use of seeking all as a narco hypnotic to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: gain trance states.
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: Hmm.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: So that's weird. So what, you're throwing it in the kid,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: making him go into a trance and programming him for later?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Pretty much.
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: Sweet.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: On the MKUltra episode. They just got to put you
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: into sleep mode and then just like.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: On the MKUltra. Put screensaver over it.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: On the MKUltra episode, we talked about a guy who
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: went on to become the president of the American and
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Canadian psychiatric associations.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: He had both belts.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He united them.
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: His whole thing was this concept called psychic driving, where
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: he would basically get you so high that you were
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: in a coma.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: And then he would just play tape loops to try
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and like erase bad memories.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: That's what they did.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: And that's the whole plot of Brave New World is
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: that from the time that you're a little kid, there's
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: a little speaker in your bed. And they basically make people,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: according to caste systems, biologically, by putting alcohol in their
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: development tanks, you'll be kind of stupider and slower and
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: smaller if you just have to work manual labor.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: And there's a little voice that says every night, it's like.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: I'm a delta. I love working in the coal mine.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: I love getting my hands dirty. And it's like, could
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: you do that with, I love killing rock stars.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I know it's a wacky thing that everyone scoffs when
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they hear about The Secret. But the secret is, if
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: anyone doesn't know how it works, the real high overview
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: is the thoughts, like what you think comes back to you.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: And that didn't start with a secret. That's research that's
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: been happening for decades and decades about the subconscious.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: It kind of eavesdrops on your conscious mind. And by
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: being more disciplined in your thoughts, you're thinking more constructively
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: and less, you know, end of the world all the time,
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: then you'll probably... inherit a little bit more happiness from
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: the subconscious processes that are going on at all times
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: concurrently with your conscious mind.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: And it's a thing I've even fucked with. I have
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: literally recorded myself saying things that were going to happen
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and listened to it when I slept.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. You have a podcast network. It's literally... Well,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: one of the things when I was still living in
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: South Dakota, I was like, I'm going to get a
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: job with a major publication, which is crazy because I
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: was living in South Dakota working on the internet at
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And within, like, three months, I got a job running
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: a Playboy website from my couch in South Dakota. And
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: that's not, like, evidence that this shit is real.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man. It sounds like a dream to me.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: It is kind of just, like, I think having the
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: mood or having the kind of, like, because if you,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like, say I'm, like, I want a.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: TV show, but I'm, like, I suck.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: I'm not that funny.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: My career's not really hot right now or anything. It's
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: like I'm not going to get. I think having the
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: mindset of, like, yeah, I want a TV show. I'm
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: going to get one. I deserve one.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: I think that is a much more, if you walk
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: around thinking like that, that's why fucking narcissists and sociopaths
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: are so successful.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Because their subconscious is just hearing them go like, yeah,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: you're God's gift.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: To the earth.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And then when someone's like, you fucking suck, you're like, no,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: What are you, fucking crazy?
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Dumbass.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: You fucking suck.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Not you.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: You're awesome.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're great, dude. This is a good time.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about John Gittinger. John Gittinger.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: John Gittinger done.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: I was thinking it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: As we mentioned earlier, he was an MKUltra researcher who
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: specialized in split personality disorders, which is what everyone in
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Courtney Love's life says she has, is split personality disorders.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Hank Harrison wrote a book about Courtney Love where he
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: mentions a conversation with Kristen Pfaff. I already said that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Never mind.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: But Kristen Pfaff has also, or did also, go on
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: record and say, yeah, Courtney Love has multiple personalities. It's scary,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: she's violent, she cycles in and out of different personalities.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: So is Courtney Love... the split personality in Courtney Harrison's
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: The Real Lady? Is that what the deal is?
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Courtney hate.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Could be. I don't know.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Well, love is just like a stage name, right?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Right, but isn't a stage name a persona you create? Like,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: isn't that just kind of a... Yeah, that's her Ziggy Stardust.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then when she's the thin white duke, that's
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: when she starts killing people.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: So the thing about John Gittinger, we know he worked
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: in the San Francisco area. We know he worked on
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: split personality stuff. At one point, he takes his split
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: personality operation to Australia.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: Oh!
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: And you know what's really close to Australia? Tasmania. New Zealand. Oh,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: New Zealand, too. Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: So is it possible that John Gittinger was... The guy
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: who took her and picked her up?
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: She, at one point, like I said, she also said
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: this guy molested her. She explained all of these experiments
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: involving drugs that do line up with the things that
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: were done to people under MKUltra.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: That's how you do psychic driving with a stick shift.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: You gotta go pop the clutch. That's not a nice
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: thing to say, but I'm sorry. I mean, I think
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: you killed a great man, but I mean, I don't
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: think that should have happened to you.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So that's weird that this MKUltra psychiatrist who was working
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: in San Francisco... at one point moves his operation to Australia.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And around this same time, Courtney love is maybe involved
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: in MK ultra shit and is moved from New Zealand
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: to the United States by her psychiatrist. That's I get that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: It's not proof that she killed Kurt Cobain. No, that's
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: fucking weird, but it gets you to the ballpark. It's
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: really strange. It's the public transit that takes you to
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the location.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And another weird thing, all of the women who've testified
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: to having been subjected to this before, they were like,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: we were trained as prostitutes. Like, not just.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and MKUltra had brothels.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, MKUltra had brothels, definitely in San Francisco, probably other places.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: Because they'd want to drug you in a situation where
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: you'd be embarrassed to talk about it, you know? And
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: they hadn't invented Magic the Gathering yet, so they thought hookers,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: that's the ticket.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: But aren't they also training them to be, I mean,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: we still do this now, you hear with all the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: spy shit, that they're using sex as a way to
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: get close to powerful people. and then get them to
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: tell you shit, right?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Is that the idea?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I watch the Americans. I know how it works.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Or is this just a bunch of fucking pedophiles having
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: fun with children? Like, I can't... What's happening here?
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: No, I get that the.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, a little of column A, a little of
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: column B. Yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: There are always... A little bit of Columbine in there, too,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: It's the Columbine Eagle flying high. So this is from
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: a book called Courtney Love, The Real Story, which... Fine,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: it was written by a friend of hers named Poppy Z.
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: Bright.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: What?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: And I get that that's not the best source, but
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: according to her... Are you saying Miss Z.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Bright doesn't necessarily have the most accurate portrayal of Miss Love?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: But according to her, and keep the prostitutes thing in mind,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Courtney claimed at one point she worked... for organized crime
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: in Japan as a stripper.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she used her ha-hoo kooza.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: I think she just got high and watched Kill Bill
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: and thought that was her.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: It could have been, yeah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Why is she traveling so much?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Because she's in the CIA.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Duh.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Duh.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I forget that comes with a platinum boarding pass.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: She referred to this work she did as, quote, the
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: white slave trade.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: In the Delta Premium Lounge. As a pass.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And implied that it involved prostitution. Also, Courtney Love biographer
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Melissa Rossi.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: That's a tough job.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Also said Courtney reported having worked as a prostitute in
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Taiwan as a teen. She says it in proper English.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: I will love you for a long time.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Hank Harrison, her dad, also claims he found Courtney working
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: as a prostitute in San Francisco at one point for
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: a madam who went on to become a lifelong advisor
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: to love.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, that's really the role of a madam.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Keep that pussy tight.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: I'm just imagining it's the puppet madam from the old comedian.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: In 1980, Hank Harrison moves to Dublin to work on
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: a book project. 16-year-old Courtney goes to live with Hank
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: during this time. And at this time, she's hanging out
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: with a guy named Steve O'Leary, who it has been
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: confirmed since CIA operative.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Working for the CIA.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, she just can't avoid these people, you know?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: And even better, At one point, she buys 1,000 hits
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: of acid, or just has 1,000 hits of acid.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: That's too many.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: And she and Steve O'Leary go to Liverpool. to distribute acid, which... Remember,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the other theory here is she infiltrates upstart music scenes
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: with drugs and infighting in an effort to destroy them
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: if they start getting too leftist. And think about England
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: in 1980. Like, that's... Punk is just getting off the ground,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: but also close to being dead, but also New Wave
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: is starting. There's all.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: like the smiths.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Satirism is coming around. You know, there's factory records or,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: you know, teaching people how to be sad.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: This was a vital time.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Everyone's on the dole.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: This was an important time for.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: They loved orange juice in England.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: For music. That dole.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Pineapple also loved it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's good stuff, yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: This is an important moment for that scene, and Courtney
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Love just happens to be there.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Just happens to be there. She's like the Forrest.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Gump of music ending before it should.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: She's like the Glennie Friedman, just always there at the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: right moment to take a snapshot of that scene right
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: before it blows up.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: On the trip to Liverpool, they also went to England
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: and visited the Ockenden Vietnamese refugee camp in London.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: What?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Which, for one thing, Hank Harrison says was a CIA installation.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: But also, weird side note, before killing John Lennon, Mark
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: David Chapman visited a CIA, or not necessarily CIA, but
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: a Vietnamese refugee camp in Arkansas.
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure that's nothing. What's happening here?
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I know. What the fuck is happening?
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Man, dude, being a sheep was so much easier. Now
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: I got to be a Courtney Love fucking truther, dude.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: So according to a lot of accounts, when she gets
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: to England in 1980, she immediately becomes a groupie in
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: this scene to the point that she apparently, which this
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: part's kind of comforting because it said she became a
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: groupie for the Pogues. And I was like, you didn't
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: fuck that guy with a rotten teeth.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I hope. Shane McGowan. Yeah.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: But no, it was the drummer who apparently got her pregnant.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: She got an abortion, but also made such a scene
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: of it. Dirty Old Town is actually about her pussy.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: That's what... Dude, I went to Ireland. Every single bar
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I went into, they played live music.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: Every single bar, every single one, all over, every major
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: city in Ireland. Every band played Dirty Old Town at
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: least once. It is the Wonderwall of Ireland. And I
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: love that song, but every bar. It did not not
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: happen ever.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: And I should add, in terms of her breaking up
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: the drummer in the Pogues marriage, don't fuck 16-year-old groupies, dude.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean, that's also his bad.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: In England, 16 is the age of consent still.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Well, all right.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: You're going to give her a baby that she has
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: to shit out in between homework?
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's rude.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: So it's claimed by some researchers that she was, quote,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: no longer welcome in Liverpool by 1982. So one of
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the musicians she dated around this time was a guy
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: named Julian Cope. And during Courtney's marriage to Kurt, this
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: guy took out a full page ad in several music
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: publications saying, And they said this, free us from Nancy
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Spungen fixated heroin a-holes who cling to our greatest rock
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: groups and suck out their brains.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, that could be interpreted all kinds of ways.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: There's so many ways you could look at that.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: It's open-ended, yeah.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: So from England, she moves to Portland. and gets involved
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: in that music scene, and we know that's true because
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: this is when she briefly joins Babes in Toyland.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Before getting kicked out of the band, and they move
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: back to Minneapolis. So whatever was happening in Portland that
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: ultimately did not take off in the 90s, Courtney Love
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: was involved in that too.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Oh, this is around the time that Keith Carey's biological
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: father is in Portland in a band. I wonder if
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: he ever got a Mickey from old Courtney Love.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Ha ha!
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Probably, because it's said that around this time, she would
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: distribute pills like candy in the Portland music scene. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: that raises a question, where's she getting, like, a thousand
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: hits of acid? That's $ 10, 000 if you're getting a.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Really good deal.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: That math took you so long.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: That's amazing. Because you did, like, all these hand gestures
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: in the air. You're doing this beautiful mind calculation shit.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I had to pull up the drug calculator and find
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: my ear.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Carry the one. Also, everything tastes like orange. And boom,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: it's $ 10, 000.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money, sure, for a 16-year-old who, sure,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: her mom has money.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, sure, she's selling that pussy, but I mean,
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: it can't be worth it.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Look, there's nothing in Courtney Love that's worth $ 10, 000. No, no.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, yeah.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: So.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe a couple secrets for a tell-all book, but.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: She also worked in Alaska as a stripper for some time,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: which Jesus Christ. Worst place to strip. I sometimes think
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Alaska is just a CIA base. Like so much weird
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: shit happens up there.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like they were like, come on, recharge your batteries.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like snow Florida.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Hang out. It's a sea out with the coworkers.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: CIA base and some reality television about people who have
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: difficult lives getting crabs. Yeah.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: It's a, it's a, it's a front by the FBI
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: and the TLC channel.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: So her first husband. Without Discovery Networks, there is no Alaska. Yeah.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Her first husband says that during this time, or she
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: told him that during this time when she was working
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: in Alaska, quote, she slept with generals at the army
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: base who told her secret information that proved that the
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: wars they got us into were for our own good.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: If I had heard that Courtney Love quote completely out
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: of context, I would have been like, you fucking maniac.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: But hearing it in the context of this, I'm like, oh,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: maybe that happened.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: That seems plausible.
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, like you might you might have
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: to like that's like the joy division for fucking.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Generals in Alaska.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: It's like, we'll fly Courtney Love up to fuck you guys,
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: you know, and try not to get too loose lifts
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: in the post-coital fucking cigarette haze.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: So by the late 80s, she was in L.A. and
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: had started Hole. She also got married around this time
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: to a local punk musician named James Moreland.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: The Leaving Trains.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yay, yay. I've never heard of them. Are they a
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: good band?
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Courtney Love destroyed them. She stole the baby doll
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: dress from James. He used to wear them on stage.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: That was his fucking thing.
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: And the Leaving Trains will still play shows, and you go,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: and it's just a broken, sad dude.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: It's a broken, sad guy. I've seen him in one
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: of the Nirvana documentaries.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think he's in Kurt and Courtney where he goes,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: a kinder gent with Charles Manson is still Charles Manson.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And he's still so worked up about the whole, he's mad.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, he thinks that Courtney killed him?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: No, she just destroyed his life.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from, or not a quote from Moreland,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: but he said that when he married Courtney Love, he
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: thought he was marrying, quote, a radical punk feminist, but
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: ended up with right-wing Phyllis Diller instead.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Nailed it so well.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Right-wing Phyllis Diller is the best description I've ever heard.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And I need to know more of Courtney Love's politics
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: so I can make sure it's accurate.
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: There are a weird subsect of people that you'll meet
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: out in the wild sometimes where it's like, yeah, I mean,
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: I just love, like, you know, like, dyeing my hair
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: and just fucking popping pills, partying, rock and roll, and
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: small government, and immigrants are destroying this country, and I
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: think we should be the police of the world, you know?
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: And it's like, wait, wait, wait, what?
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: So she goes from Portland, she goes to L.A. and
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: starts Hole, and before meeting Kurt Cobain, she also dates
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Trent Reznor.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And Billy Corgan. So those are all really big music things.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Like Trent Reznor ushered in a whole new sort of
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: thing in the night. It wasn't new, but it was
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: a departure. And he probably is kind of a leftist.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Although I feel like she dated him and was like, nah,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: he's good. He's right wing as fuck. You're fine.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Just give him a little bit of time. He'll win
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: an Academy Award. People will forget. They will forget all
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the other things.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: So with the exception of rap music, Courtney Love is
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: involved in a lot of important music movements since 1980.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I wish she would have gotten involved in rap music.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Someone might have fucking just killed her.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I wish she would have dated Flavor Flav instead of
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Brigitte Nielsen. I still wish she would date Flavor Flav.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: There's still time. They're both still with us. They're both
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: still possible. They can do it. Yeah.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: Flavor Flav had a sitcom briefly that ran for 26
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: episodes on UPN called Under One Roof. And I watched
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: it with glee every single week. It was the worst
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: television show I've ever seen. And I cannot find it
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: online anywhere. And I want to watch it again. There's
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: a great one where Twista is like the guest for
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: the episode. But like for one whole summer, I just
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: watched it.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Did he just talk like this the whole time?
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Did he talk really fast? Yeah, he just did like...
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: And it was just like.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: And it was like basically Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, but
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: it's like his yuppie brother was supposed to go to
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: jail and Flavor Flav took the blame and now he's out.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: So he's got to take care of him. And he
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: did the whole rap.
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: He explained the whole premise of the show in the
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: rap and the intro, and it's the fucking best bad
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: television I've.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Ever watched, and I can't have it anymore.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like that show is made with just, well,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: we don't know what flavor we'll say, but we'll say
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: all of this, and then hopefully it all ties together
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: when he talks.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: So this is a quote from Susan Silver, who was
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: at various times manager for Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Screaming Trees. And if I'm not mistaken... married to chris
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: cornell i don't i don't know if they eventually got
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: divorced and he remarried but she was chris cornell's wife
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: at one point this is a quote from her after
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: courtney hooked up with kurt it was the first time
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: anyone had ever publicly trash talked anybody in the community
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it was really awful to have somebody with this addict
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: behavior of divide and conquer. We had this really lovely, cohesive,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: supportive community and this tornado came and started blowing things apart.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: So is that Courtney Love doing her job as a
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: CIA operative?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What are they trying to stop? In the world,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I'm buying in this all happened. What are they trying
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: to stop from happening by these bands becoming successful?
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Band spreading leftist politics.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: Got it.
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know that's why I like that is
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: because I discovered punk rock music when I was 13
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: years old. So it's like if you take these cool things,
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: you see these cool things happening like punk rock or grunge,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: you're like, let's nip that in the bud.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: And do it from the inside. Everyone has a community
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: making a cool thing. It's like, get some pot stirrers
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: in there. That's the best way to kill anything is
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: within fighting.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: That's what the.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: CIA tries to do when they destabilize governments. Anyway, that's
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: in the playbook.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: That's precisely what we do to destabilize a government. We
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: have foundations now that just, it seems like they usually
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: call them pro-democracy organizations. And John McCain is the head
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: of one of them. There's a Democrat version also. And
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: they just send people in to go, hey, do you
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: hate your government? Let me tell you how to use Facebook.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: And Courtney Love does kind of seem like the music
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: version of that. She was Facebook back in the early 90s.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Well, not Facebook, but she was the one going in
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: and saying, kind of quelling these movements.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she was the Molotov cocktail of.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. And there were some, after she arrived
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: in Seattle, there were some weird incidents. For one, Kurt's friend,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: local poet Steve Bernstein, reportedly committed suicide by slitting his
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: own throat.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a tough way to do it.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: That's hard. That's a weird way. But his friend, filmmaker
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Oliver Stone.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: What?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Was convinced that he was murdered. Mark Arm and Mike
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Starr both.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: Hold on.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Before we get to that. Does Oliver Stone think anyone
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: dies of natural causes?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I think Oliver Stone is a Russian agent.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Sure. Myself. So who knows?
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Mark Arm and Mike Starr both near fatally overdosed after
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: shooting up in separate incidents with Courtney Love.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: She was there both times. She just had a better tolerance.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Mark Arm is, of course, of Mudhoney. Mike Starr was
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: the original drummer of Alice in Chains. Alice in Chains, yeah.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Mia Zapata, that murder happened, which I didn't know.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: What was her band? We talked about her before. The Gits.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they had a tour planned where
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: they were going to shadow the Pope. as he traveled
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: across the.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: United States and play a bunch of concerts, kind of
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: speaking out against the Vatican and their policies. I've been,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I've been using it wrong. It's on me.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: And she got murdered in the streets of Seattle about
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: a month before that tour happened. And then when the
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: members of Tad organized a benefit to raise money to
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: research and investigate her murder, Courtney Love shows up and
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: starts a fight backstage that somehow starts a fire.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And almost ends the benefit, but didn't end it. Look,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: to be fair, most benefits need a fire and a fight. Absolutely.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: To really kick it off. To really get it going.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: You got a cheese plate? Come on, man. Start a fight.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: So then we'll end by talking about Kristen Pfaff, who
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: is another really weird death in Courtney Love's inner circle.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: She died 10 weeks after Kurt.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: After Kurt, okay.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Right. And she was talked into joining Hole, basically. I mean,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: they offered her a lot of money. Oh, she was
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: the bassist, right? She was the bassist that they credit
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: with making that album.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right, right. I remember this. This
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: was a real buried story when this happened. It was
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: real like, oh, another someone, somebody that Courtney Love knows died,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: but Kurt Cobain still did.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: This one is almost more damning than the Courtney Love story.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: It just involves Eric Erlandson, who was... Who is Courtney
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Love's lifelong friend and guitar player in a hole.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Guitar player in a hole, yeah.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: But it just involves him instead of Courtney Love, but
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: it's pretty fucking crazy.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Well, without Faf dying, you don't get Melissa Oftermuir.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Who is, anyway. That'd be all right. I love her.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it would have been cool if Kristen Faf
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: lived and Melissa Oftermuir just joined another band. But her
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: family tried to talk her out of joining Hole, specifically
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: because of Eric Erlinson and Courtney Love's drug use. But nevertheless,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: she joins Hole, and within a couple months, Eric Erlandson
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: is her boyfriend now, and she's addicted to heroin.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: And by all accounts, she was emotionally traumatized by Courtney Love. Like,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: she would make suggestions in the studio, and Courtney Love
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: would scream at her and call her stupid.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: And she was very unhappy with the experience in general.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: So once they finish recording the album, she goes back
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: to Minneapolis and She has to contractually go on this
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: world tour, but other than that, she wants nothing to
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: do with this band. Around this time, Kristen Pfaff's mother
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: says that Cobain asked her to join a new band
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: he was forming. That's interesting.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: That's pretty cool.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: But then Kurt died, and Kristen Pfaff, as a result
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: of Kurt dying, quits using drugs altogether. She's like, I
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: get it. I'm going to die if I keep doing this.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I need to get it together. And she's getting ready
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: to go on this tour, but she's moved to Minneapolis.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: But she still has all her shit in Seattle. So
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: she and a friend, a guy named, where the fuck
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Paul Erickson.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Paul Erickson. They rent a U-Haul and drive to Seattle
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: to get Kristen Pfaff's stuff. Now, remember, by this time,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: she's off drugs.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: She's off drugs.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: She's done with Hole.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: She's done with Hole. She's off drugs. She's just going
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: back to Seattle to.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Get her stuff. This is live through this era Hole. Right, right.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And her friend, Paul Erickson, because the neighborhood that she
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: lived in was so concentrated with heroin users, he slept
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: in the U-Haul overnight to make sure no one stole
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: her shit. And what he claims is that at one point,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Eric Erlinson shows up, walks into the apartment, is there
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: for about 30 minutes, and then leaves. The next morning,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Paul Erickson finds... Kristen Pfaff, dead of a heroin overdose
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: in her bathtub.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, shit. Jesus Christ.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Which, why has that not been investigated?
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Why have I never heard that?
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've never heard that part of the story. So
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: it sounds to me like Eric is Courtney's handler. Eric
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: is like Courtney's man on the ground.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: She's kind of like, hey, you're a fine guitar player,
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: but if you want to roll with me, you've got
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: to do some dirty work.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: But I think he's in on it. Yeah, he's in
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: on it. And this is a huge book. We didn't
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: cover everything. But yeah, that's kind of the implication, is
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: that he's part of it, too. Oh, that Paul Erickson's
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: part of it? No, that Eric Erlandson.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Guitar player from Hole, yeah.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Because if you remember, when all those weird videos of
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Courtney and Kurt are going around with Francis Bean... Eric
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: is the one filming them. Eric is like present in
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: their life. He's always around. Oh, okay.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Interesting. Yeah.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: So when you watch that montage of heck stuff or
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: any of that stuff where it's like the two of
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: them kind of weird and naked with the baby, Eric's
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the one in the room filming them.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: Not weird at all. That's very, very strange. That's not good.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: So police, when they find Kristen Pfaff, not only do
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: they find drug paraphernalia and drugs in her apartment, They
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: also find that several pages from her journal have been removed.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Holy shit.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Is she fucking practicing faff handwriting? Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: There's a fucking sheet of faff handwriting. But that's weird.
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: That is really fucking weird. They are so bad at murder,
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: but they keep getting away with it.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: And then the question becomes, well, if they were this
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: bad at it, why wouldn't they get arrested?
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: Because they're in the CIA.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're untouchable.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: You can't arrest them.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: They're not real.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: We just got a call from the feds. It said,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: stop if you like having a kid that is alive.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: They said that's for everybody. Yeah, I just got this
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: weird text. It says, there's no one you know we
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: can't get.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: Is that weird? It says, we know what you did.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I got an Amber alert that says, I'm in a
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: black van right now.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: But I don't even straight.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: Dude, I feel like this pizza truck is following me around.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: So, I'm sorry, wait. Should we be using our real
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: names on this? No, no. I'm Connor McSpadden. Thank you
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: for listening, everybody. That doesn't help.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: I'm Alan Todd Beige.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Wrench.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: And I'm Trevor Kralk, and I really enjoyed being here.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: So the last thing, and this is probably just an
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: unimportant side note, but the same coroner who immediately ruled
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Kurt Cobain's death as a suicide immediately ruled Kristen Pfaff's
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: death as an accidental overdose and decided there was no
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: need for further investigation. But I'm sure it's just they
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: only got the one corner. It's that one corner up there,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and he's like, no, these kids and heroin.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Every time.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: It's a weird.
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: Like this show me a picture of eric erlinson i
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: want to see if he looks.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Like tom petty he looks like a tom yeah he
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: does kind of look like tom petty but like tom
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: petty if yeah He looks a shit ton like Tom Petty.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Yo, this guy is a murderer. He's got a murder face.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: That guy works for the government.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: Look at this motherfucker.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: That picture looks like he's about to record a YouTube
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: video about chemtrails.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: He also looks like he's Eric Stoltz in the mask
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: trying to be Tom Petty.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: He looks like someone made a shitty clone of Beck,
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: and they just didn't really nail it.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: So that guy's definitely not out there murdering people on.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Behalf of the CIA. Our bet got a little melty
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: and a little stretchy. It's a little not totally what
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: we were going for.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: The first pancake of Beck's.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: So that's the MKUltra and Courtney Love conspiracy. Jesus Christ.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: It's one of the craziest ones I think we've covered,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: but it's also not compelling.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: Shockingly convincing.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: It makes the title of Live Through This even more terrifying.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: It's less of a like, oh, what I've endured. It's
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: more of a warning. It's more of I'm coming for you.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: And don't forget, Live Through This was released a week
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: before he died.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Or a week after he died so that title had
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: been in the works for months right right right right
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: it's not.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: Like they just that's the name of the first whole album.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah the one that came out 10 days after.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: He died oh shit yeah yeah it's probably through this
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: that's that's some.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: Real you know uh ready to die life after death
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: shit yeah you know i.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Mean it also should be called i am not a
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: cia operative i mean that should have been the.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: Title of it called aic.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: So that's that's that conspiracy Jesus Christ. I find it
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: rather compelling. We'll probably cover more stuff from this book.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: But if anyone wants to read it, drugs as a
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: weapon against us. There's some crazy shit in there.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: My God.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: And man, Courtney Love is in the CIA.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: And then she tries to break into Hollywood after that.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Then she tries to assassinate Jim Carrey.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Right, and did a pretty good job.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: All right, so we should wrap it up. This was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: a fun episode. Travis, thank you for joining us.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: The past two weeks.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. This was really cool and
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: fun to talk about all this crazy shit around... Fuck yeah. Jesus.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: When we inevitably talk about this again on Heart Shaped Pod,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: we'll have to have Connor on.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have to close the loop.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Because that's definitely going to happen.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: And it turns out Connor's an operative and murders all
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: of us. Oh my God, this whole time!
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: They've sent me to infiltrate Upstart podcasting operations.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: It makes sense. And frankly, I'd be honored. To die
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: that way, like the government sent a stooge after you?
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: I've been slowly poisoning Tony Hinchcliffe and Brian Redband.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Up-and-coming comedy assassin. Connor McSpadden took me out. What a
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: fucking honor.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: I feel so good. Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: Well, you shouldn't have slept in the U-Haul. That's always
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: the mistake. It never helped me move. That's what you've learned.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: So what do we have to plug before we get
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: out of here? This is a free episode, so check
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: out patreon.com slash unpops for a bonus episode of me, Connor,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: and Travis talking about Kurt Cobain's death, which went up
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: last week, and to get bonus episodes of all the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: podcasts that I co-host with all these great people, including
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Heart Shaped Pod.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Heart Shaped Pod is what I would recommend you also
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: check out. That's our all-Nirvana podcast podcast. unclear how it's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: going to end still.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: I'm excited. Sure.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I'm really excited to see how that story ends. It's
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: been a while since it's been out.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: I wonder what he's up to now.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know because he hasn't made a record in
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: a while.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: He hasn't made a record.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I'm curious.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: Crazy.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, check out Heart Shaped Pod. Also follow me
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: on the socials at Mr. Travis Clark.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: Oh man, big old Mean Boys tour. I'm probably right
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: in the thick of it right now. We're going to Wisconsin,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: fucking other places, Chicago, Fort Wayne. It's on the website.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: You probably heard me say the dates before. New York, Philly, DC, Pittsburgh.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: Tickets are cheap, and it's a fun time. So buy
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: them at meanboyspodcast.com.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's get the fuck out of here. Connor,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: say goodbye.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: Goodbye, everybody.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Travis, say goodbye. Goodbye.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Goodbye, everybody. We love.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: You.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 7: People of Earth, your planet is about to be destroyed.