Latest / The Thriving School Podcast with Jenni Awesome / A Court Investigator's Perspective with Lance Hillsinger
Transcript
- Jenni Awesome: Thank you for tuning in to the Jennifer Awesome podcast. My name is Jenny Awesome, and today we have a special guest with us. His name is Lance Hilsinger. Lance, go ahead and introduce yourself. Lance Hillsinger: thank you, Jenny, for having me. Yeah, my name's Lance Hilsinger. I'm a retired child welfare social worker. And in retirement I've written four books. two of them are about the government system. the third is a kind of a fun book, Beyond Amelia, Lesser Known Women of Yesteryear. And then my final book, or my my fourth book, is Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, a court investigator examines the gospels. So since I was a court investigator for many years, I look at the gospels through through that lens. It's to be neither hypercritical nor hyper supportive, it's just maybe a different way of people looking at at the gospels. Jenni Awesome: So tell us how did you get into working in child protective services? Like I like what what how'd you get into this? Lance Hillsinger: Well, I I have I went my undergraduate was at UCLA. I had a dual major in psychology and political science. I had grown up in Southern California my whole life. I had a chance to go to USC or Vanderbilt. I chose Vanderbilt in Tennessee simply because I wanted to see part of the country. and then I was on a PhD track to do research then that kind of and I kind of there was a mutual decision that that really the academic track was not for me. So I left Vanderbilt with master's in psychology, returned to my native California. I was working in a shelter workshop setting. that was a sort of a mobile setting. We we went out in the community too, and I was a with I was sort of the junior senior partner and I worked with a a junior partner with six to eight young adults who were either who were deal diagnosed, developmentally delayed, and some sort of mental health diagnosis, a very unique population. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: And I and I like to tell the story because the junior partner wasn't pay I wasn't paid very much, and the junior partner was paid even less. And so there was quite a bit of turn o turnover in that position. And when one time I got paired with a person who just one of those people that I said green, she would say red. And you know, I was a senior partner, so I think I should s it's green if I say so, you know, kinda because I'm I have a senior partner Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: and I had the master's degree and you know, but just one of those things. And but one day she said, Why don't we get Dale, that was one of the guys in the group, a job as a dishwasher in county cafeteria. And I was about to say that's a really st and I realized that is a good idea. You know, I was about to say no. I thought because so many other times it had been confrontational. So this is in the pre-internet days. We took a little field trip down to the Hall administration in LA. and there was everything between arborist and zookeeper in this huge book. for civil service jobs in LA County. Fortunately, children's services worker came before dishwasher and I got a job for myself. Jenni Awesome: So what what have been some of the things you've experienced in being a a child social worker? What what have you like what are some of the highlights? What are some of the things that maybe we're not aware of for people who may want to look into that profession in the future? Lance Hillsinger: Well, let me just finish this story really briefly. I Jenni Awesome: Okay. Lance Hillsinger: was a child welfare circuit in LA County for five years. My parents were planning to retire up in San Luis Obispo. My wife and I, we took a trip up here kind of to just to have a nice weekend. We wound up putting a down payment on a house that was not yet even constructed, hoping I would get a job. the county there was said social worker four. So I thought they were hiring s four social workers. I thought it was unusual that use Roman numerals. But Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: That was the classification. In LA County, it only went up to three as far as you know the civil service systems. you know, three is better than one and that kind of thing. And so I was fortunate to get the job. My wife was able to get a job with the National Guard. So my twenty-nine years with San Luis Obispo County, which is halfway between well it was just north of Santa Barbara. So for most of my career I was a court worker. and that is in the legal system. I think a lot of people think that, CPS just Takes kids and that's what we want and that's what we're doing. You can find all sorts of horrible things on the internet about bad mouthing us and everything. But one of the things I like to point out if of of every thousand phone calls to the hotline, less than one results in the termination of parental rights. We're not Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: out there to to take to take kids. Now, most of the time when there's a referral or a case, it doesn't need to go to court. Yeah, unfounded, or you can't prove it, or it's not serious enough. Only the most serious situations. And the codes in California defines what those serious situations are. Can you can you remove a child? And you don't even have to remove a child to have coronary intervention. That's one of the things that I advocated for. Sometimes, hey, this family's in crisis here. Mom's dabbling in drugs, but s it's not really that bad yet. So let's intervene and just maintain the kids in the home. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: sometimes that fell on deaf airs when I was trying to advocate for that, but that's called a non-detain petition in California. It's out of custody orders in other states. So Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: I would write the report from the when the child was moved for the detention hearing, which is held in three days, and then the jurisdictional dispositional hearing, which was normally held in about five weeks. the jurisdiction is what happened, the disposition is what are we gonna do. The time between the Detention hearing and the jurisdictional disposition hearing varies quite a bit by state. And you can often have Jenni Awesome: Yes, it does. Lance Hillsinger: continuances and things like that. And so that's why you have to to and you have to have in c under California law, you have to have clear and convincing evidence. You can say X happened, there's evidence that this happened, but it still has to rise to a very fairly high legal standard of clear and convincing evidence that it's better for the child to be out of the home. And the best roughly two-thirds of the cases. That come into the court system are neglect due to parent substance abuse. Relative, Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: very, very rarely did I have what I call a pure physical abuse case. the code section in California has two sections, 300A, which is just your sort of your generic physical abuse, any age of child, whatever, and 300 E for a child. Originally it was under three, now it's the code that's under five, where there's really something very seriously gross, somebody who's really. Brutalize the child. And if a you have a sustained count under 300 E of the Welfare Institution Code, you don't even have to give the parents a chance. So that's that's where we then and so that would be my job is the detention report and to write the petition, which is the legal language by which a judge, here's all the facts, that's the detention area, what we believe the facts to be, and here's the code, how this code section applies. to those to those facts in like a paragraph form. So, you know and it Jenni Awesome: So what would your caseload look like? How many how many of these petitions would you have at a time? Lance Hillsinger: Well, y you only have really hopefully you only have one petition to write at a time because it there's a very, very tight deadline. Because you're supposed to you're supposed to file within twenty-four hours. Your boss needs some time to r re review it and c and r and check it and make sure and and ha answer any questions and then physically the it has to get to the courthouse to be physically filed. I think it's now done electronically in most states, but back then it wasn't it wasn't electronic. so it's you know it's a very time crunch. The only time you might have two at once is a sibling case. You might have you you might have siblings. Some states have individual cases for each sibling, even if they're full siblings. or you might have two women who are living together. They each have children. The facts are very similar but the children are only related to one mom and they're you know some children related to them. So you might have one worker handle both cases because the facts are similar. That's the only time you can handle handle generally handle one petition. two petitions at a time. when I had LA County, I had cases now you have the dispositional hearing, which is where the child you can dismiss the case any type along the way. You can also grant new custody orders. Very often, if you have a non-offending father, you can you can take jurisdiction, give him custody and dismiss the case that way. And then you have the disposition hearing and then typically the parent has a 12 months to reunify. There's some Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: other changes in that. There's some exceptions and whatever, but generally most cases fall under under the 12-month rule. and then for for like the last four years in LA County, I was both kind of a court worker for a little bit and also had an ongoing cases. Those those pays, those post-dispositional cases. and I had 77, to go back to answer your question, I had 77 children in my caseload. You're supposed to Jenni Awesome: Wow. Lance Hillsinger: visit every child once a month, at least. And with Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: 77 kids, that's almost a physical impossibility, especially when the child might be placed with a relative in another part of the county. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: I don't know how familiar you are with geography. The mother, it's usually the custodial parent, which 99 times out of hundreds is the mother. That's where you base the case from, and because Jenni Awesome: Right. Lance Hillsinger: that's where you're hoping to return the children to. But I had a case where I had a drive out to the desert, Lancaster, and it was about it was a full day trip for me to to to see the child out there and or LA traffic Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: going the other way. I had a couple of cases and you know and so there's a lot of driving involved if you're and especially if you're i in a rural area. so I was talking Jenni Awesome: Yeah, and i if you have seventy seven kids on your caseload, that's more than two kids a day you would need to see in a whole month. That's a lot. Lance Hillsinger: Yeah, yeah. Right. So yeah, that was ridiculous. It is the system has improved now. I think the Jenni Awesome: Good. Lance Hillsinger: system is a little more selective about the number of children entering foster care. you know, nobody wants a headline case and not have a case, okay, we didn't take this case to court, then tomorrow you have a dead child or something and then that's on the head you know, morning news, you know. CPS was you Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: know, you we don't want that either. So So but then typically I would have twenty kids in my caseload, some that are just coming in and some that are that are just about to have their disposition hearing and scattered in between those two extremes. but I worked just as hard, even though people ask how many kids. I worked Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: much harder in San Luis Obispo because there are a lot of LA was just simply driving from A to B. And and Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: that's one of the points. One of the points you'll say, the system is this and it needs to be reformed, it needs this and that you a lot of people. The one thing that makes the system work is if there's foster parents. If the social Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: worker has to drive an hour to the foster home and back, that's a two-hour trip. Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: If there's a foster home within fifteen minutes, that's an only half-hour round trip. That's much better. So Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: that's the one thing. And that's why I wrote my my one of the reasons I wrote my first book. in place of the parent inside child protective services to urge people to become foster parents or what are called cost workers, guardian lineups, people who non attorneys who represent children in court. we also in California we also Jenni Awesome: And and I wanna say that in in Washington, I went through the Casa training, I went through the Guardian of the Lightem training, and I absolutely recommend it to anybody. I mean, being able to understand how the system works and how to advocate for children, it's it's a huge area that that we could add more people. Lance Hillsinger: Yeah. w you know, when the cross of program first started, I found it an annoyance because, you know, if they were making the same recommendation I made, I find it redundant. And if they were not didn't agree with me, then that made my job a lot more difficult. But over time, especially in San Luis Obispo County, I found it mutually we we we work together. J generally any two agencies are gonna have a little little friction. But by and large it it it was a complimentary relationship and the I still I'm still Facebook friends What the Casa worker I used to work with, so there we are. Jenni Awesome: Nice. Nice. So you were talking about the first book and how you're you were advocating that you saw a need that there weren't as many foster families, so you wrote this book to fill in that gap. So tell us a bit about your book and why f being a foster family is so important. Lance Hillsinger: Well, there's three reasons. One is no encouraged to be a foster parent or co or a cost worker. Two was just to educate people about the system. There's a lot of misinformation Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: and and for instance, when kids enter foster care, we tend to your mind thinks non-relative, but rec reclifty foster care covers both relative and non-relative placement. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: And it's roughly split 50-50 nationwide in rough terms. Half the children are placed with relatives and half are in in non-related homes that are licensed foster homes. and the even if it's a relative, there has to be an approval. We have to check everybody's criminal record in the home, make sure the home is physically safe, that kind of thing. so and and then the other thing is w what I noticed during my career, there was more and more paperwork. I was spending more and more screen time and less and less true FaceTime with clients. And that's Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: what I want to rally against is that the there's always been a lot of paperwork and it should be, because you've got to need a lot of accountability and everything. But at some point it's too it's it takes away from the joy of doing the job, and it takes away from the focus of the job. I talk about Structured decision making. There's a thing that you have to do to say, okay, this is how I went to process my decision. And if you don't do X before you do Y, the computer tells you get you get a little ding that your supervisor has to talk about. That means you're you're working the system, the computer system, and not working with clients. So this is this is one of the beefs I've had here is that we need to get back and let people do their job and I and not burden them so much with so much paperwork. Yes. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: the system needs to be held accountable, but at some point people not gonna put forth that extra effort they're gonna just think of themselves as bureaucrats and not social workers. Jenni Awesome: Yeah, it's it's the relational piece that I mean, in a lot of our jobs that we get into and and you know, inundating us with paperwork doesn't doesn't do anyone any good. Lance Hillsinger: And and this is my my daughters are both teachers, and my mother Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: was a teacher. And I know that my daughter has to do a lot more paperwork as a teacher than my mother had to do. And it's like, you know, you have to check a box, did this meet the core standard, did this meet this objective? And as opposed to, hey, I think kids, we ought to study, you know, George Washington this week or whatever, you know, and be enthusiastic and plan, you know. decorate the classroom or whatever you would do as a teacher, I don't know, but you would be enthusiastic about the classroom if you got to really say, hey, okay, this time and I understand in in Finland, which has you know they're very educated, very literate and all those things, is that the teachers are given a fair amount of latitude, you know, Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: and to teach how they want. And they wound up with the with vr with k kids that do well. And teachers who are excited Jenni Awesome: I I would say that Lance Hillsinger: about going to work. Jenni Awesome: that that's why kids enjoy school and that's why teachers want to teach is is that fun aspect of look at this fun activity we get to do together. So you're right. And I can see that too with being a social worker too, is it's that relational piece where you're actually connecting with your clients, a clientele and hopefully getting a better place for the kids and helping as many families as possible so that they can parent their kids. That's that's what I hear you saying. Lance Hillsinger: Yeah, and i it was a very it was a very gratifying job and very, very grateful. I I had a uncle who was a corporate lawyer. He made a lot more money than I did. my dad was a lawyer, a family lawyer, he probably made more money too. But I think that I had a much very meaningful job. you recommend to a court that somebody not even get a second chance with their kid. That's a heavy heavy thing. And Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: though some sometimes when people When you saw people s start to succeed, that was what I felt really good, especially as a court worker. That you kind of set the stage. Some cases you knew going in their serial the broad struggle was so serious that there's really no question that the court will take a dependency. But you do set the stage for the people to recover it and some did, not everyone, but well those that did, it was very gr very grateful. San Luis Bispo is a small county. Well, occasionally I used to run into clients. I haven't had that happen for a while now, but It's a very gratifying appearance when you know, that happens. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. So tell us a bit about your other books. I mean, you've got four books out now. Lance Hillsinger: That's right. And so the f first one is in place the parent, inside child protective services. The second one is build a bread or bridge, social policy for the twenty-first century. roughly ninety percent of the children, at least in San Luis County, I think that's generally true in in most of California, are poor enough to qualify. for court appointed counsel. So there's a link between poverty and child maltreatment. Yes, you could have somebody in Beverly Hills or whatever, but that's the very much the exception. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: we deal with people who are generally very poor and and not very successful in school or life in general. And then particularly the men. and why was our society producing so many men that are not successful either as fathers or as employees? So I kind look at the welfare programs, the war on poverty programs, and how there's also a lot of misinformation there about this, this, and veterans don't get benefits above and fly. No, veterans have priority in public housing. A disabled veteran has the highest priority. If anybody's watching your podcast, if you know a homeless veteran, just have them bring their proof of monitor discharge to the local veterans affairs office, and that person will help them get some housing. Jenni Awesome: Excellent. Lance Hillsinger: So that's what I think of what can we do in our society to change the rules to inside for one of the examples is food stamps. Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: Food stamps is calculated by household income and size of household. That sounds normal, but two senior citizens don't eat as much food as a mom and a teenage son. And Jenni Awesome: Yeah, definitely not. Lance Hillsinger: so why don't we make you know food stamps age adjusted? Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: That's just one simple thing. Then the other thing is that is that boys are not successful in school. And by and large, and I sat on the school attendants were reboard and and educators generally agreed with this, is that they don't really like boys like to read true stories. They Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: don't like to read fiction. They're they're very turned off by by fiction. So my advocate in the book is one little small change, it wouldn't cost anything. Instead of requiring four years of English, which is largely fictional reading, require one year of of nonfiction reading. and that that will help. And the other thing that I advocate again, because I know that there are people who don't want the government to spend one extra penny than it has to, just require school districts to post graduation rates by gender. Because in some areas of the Dropout rate is twenty five percent, with boys almost always being worse than girls, and an African American boy or Hispanic boy, you know, the their graduation rates are even lower. So that's Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Yeah, especially for the the boys that have to go out and support their families. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: Right. And and one point I make is that a boy who doesn't graduate high school, or a girl let's say a girl who doesn't graduate high, she's more likely to get pregnant statistically, not everybody, Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: but you know, when you said when you're studying social policy, you have to talk about the statistics. Then she's Jenni Awesome: Yes. Lance Hillsinger: more likely to get pregnant, go on on w on aid, and she's an economic drag on the society. that's in cold business terms. the boy The young man who doesn't graduate high school, he's more likely to drift into criminal activity and father a child, also father child he can't support. But his failure to graduate is not a just a drag on, it's a matter of public safety. And so we Jenni Awesome: Yeah, those are huge points. Lance Hillsinger: really need to to emphasize this and And I I can't the my my bugaboo is that how many men are pr per portrayed in commercials these days. I I've subscribed to Science News. And if you see the articles, the ads in for science, almost all of them feature a a young woman going off on a science career, or men and women pursuing science careers. Rarely you will see an ad for a man pursuing a science career at a college or some other program. and I think that that has to change. We have to encourage that. Yes, there are very relatively few women in in the with the hard sciences, but we also need to encourage everybody. more w more women are by far more women are becoming veterinarians, psychologists, Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: optometrists, ophthalmologists, lawyers, doctors. Jenni Awesome: Yes. Lance Hillsinger: You know that we have a real shift there in our society and and I think that men need a little more encouragement. So that's one of the things, some of the things I talk about in the book. Others is just about the history of welfare, how things have concurred and and these kind of structural changes, like maybe we should encourage companies to help employees buy housing. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: you know, in World War Two, there was the GI after World you know, World War II there's a GI Bill and you know, tens of thousands of men and families got house at Levittown. it was largely built on the GI Bill, almost everyone. But the cost of housing at Levittown has increased like five times the inflation rate. So it's much Jenni Awesome: yeah. Lance Hillsinger: more harder to buy a home now. And you know, why do we have the equivalent of a GI Bill for firefighters, for teachers, for police officers? Jenni Awesome: Yeah, we should. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: You know, have something like that or some sort of it's very expensive here to live in San Luis Obispo. Santa Barbara County homes routinely are a million dollars. Jenni Awesome: Mm. Lance Hillsinger: And even if you pay a police officer a hundred thousand a year, you can't afford You know, very hard to afford payment on a million dollar ho home. And so it's it's difficult to attract ties. We had a little s scandal here with superintendent of schools. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: Got a kind of a sweetheart deal. The new the old superintendent was retired. I mean, they hired somebody, he got it, but he got a sweetheart deal for a second mortgage to to afford it. I mean, he even the superintendent of school need a little help financially. Jenni Awesome: yeah. Lance Hillsinger: I'm all for that if it was for all school employees. Singling out Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: the superintendent, I think, was unfair. so. Jenni Awesome: Well and we we want our workforce to be in our community. That that was a huge thing. Lance Hillsinger: Right. Jenni Awesome: Like teachers, we want them to be a part of the community, not the community that's Lance Hillsinger: That's right. Jenni Awesome: half an half an hour, an hour away. We want them to be part of the Lance Hillsinger: Yeah. Jenni Awesome: heart of of their the people they work with. Lance Hillsinger: That's right. That's right. So to talk briefly about my other two books, Beyond Amelia, Lesser Known Women of Yesteryear, I will fair disclosure here, I wrote a book that I thought would be attractive to women because women buy more books, especially Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: fiction. Something like 75-80% of books are bought by women or girls. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: And so I thought, well, it's a nonfiction title, but I thought something about that. And it's a lighthearted book. It's what I call an airport book. Something you could read while you're waiting for a plane to take off, but you might a little learn a little history and a little insight about. And it it talks about how it's more complex, the history. There's been a lot of men who have supported women through through history, the So this is where it's not always that. So that's what I talk about that book. And then Jenni Awesome: Nice. Lance Hillsinger: I've always had faith. I think faith helped me be a better social worker. Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: sometimes. when I would make on a home call, particularly if the person was a little more challenging, might be I might park a b block or two away, meditate for a while, maybe say a prayer, but more often Jenni Awesome: Yep. Lance Hillsinger: just kind of settle myself down, meditate, be in the right mindset. And and tap in as as as I said, like the air conditioning in the office, the faith is there in the background. When it's not working, you really notice. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: so that's where I wrote my other book because very, very few of my families I can almost count on two hands, the number of families had a a sustained connection to an organized religion. And Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: faith helps people get through the challenges of life. Faith helps people Not to hate themselves, because a lot of a lot of drug uses. I feel bad about myself. And gee, if I take this, I'm gonna feel good at least for a little while. and people who attend church, of course, there's exceptions, but you're not gonna find as many drug addicts and alcoholics and things like that. And people are gonna lead health, physically healthier lifestyles. And so it's gonna encourage me, but it's very much what I call in social work the soft cell. and what I mean by that is that you don't I would tell new workers, we don't want to be used car salesmen talking with clients. You know, hey you gotta do this your case plan. Hey, this is your case plan. These are your children, your choice. You make it make it a Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: soft sell about what do you how do you how do you see it a year from now? Do you see yourself living with your kids? and Sometimes people say, Okay, you know, I I realize I'm not gonna make it. I'm gonna I'm not gonna fight it. I'm gonna let let the foster parents have the kids or I'm gonna let my my aunt or my cousin or whatever and they realize that they're just not. And and I admired that because you don't wanna now I wanna encourage people to get treatment. I don't get me wrong, but some people are like you know, yeah, okay, that's where I am. so Jenni Awesome: Yeah. And and I'll I'll sh I'll share that my stepdaughters went through something similar. They they've they've all turned eighteen, they're all grown and out of the house now. However, when they first came into my life, their their mother was going back and forth with drugs and she ended up making the hard decision that, you know, not being in their lives, going and taking care of herself was the best thing for them. And so having that that conversation with them again and again and saying, you know what, your mom didn't abandon you. She loves you. She's loving you the best that she can from a distance. And and she made the hardest decision that she she had to, and that was to put you guys first. And in this case, that didn't include her in your lives at that time. Now she's back in their lives. She's able to be a part of their lives. But up until the point where they all turned eighteen, you know, she was she was down doing what she needed to do to take care of herself. Lance Hillsinger: And and that's a and that's a noble and we ought to and we ought to recognize that that's a that's a noble thing to do and and not put somebody down because that they they did the noble act. So yes, that's a very common scenario in in child welfare. And so that's why I I write the books. I wanted to have something do something meaningful in my retirement. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: my first book, all the proceeds go to Razom, a humanitarian program in Ukraine. Jenni Awesome: That's wonderful. Can you tell us a bit more about that, the the program? Lance Hillsinger: Well, they just provide you know, basic necessities, nothing, you know, humanitarian assistance, food, medical care, that kind of thing. And that they're they're approved by ch not approved, but according to charity navigator and other people, they're a legitimate charity. There's certain charities that are recognized by the State Department that that are legitimate, they the money goes to good uses. So they're they've been vetted. And Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: so there's certainly a great need there. and I think that it tends to be forgotten, you know, it's yesterday's news too often. You know, we got a war going on in another part of the country. Ukraine gets the you know, the page thirteen, you know, kind of thing. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: so but their suffering is still true. Now there's lots of that's it's just place where I where I chose to support. There's lots of worthy causes, but Jenni Awesome: Mm-hmm. Lance Hillsinger: I wanted to do something for that. I have one Pers not so much personal connection, but I'm a Mason, a Freemason. Jenni Awesome: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Lance Hillsinger: And and the and I mentioned this guy, I I I we're not supposed to use our affiliation, Masonic affiliation to promote a business. But this is writing is simply a hobby. Like I said, I donate the royalties, so I feel I'm safe under Masonic rules to share the story. Before Russia invaded, I looked at the Grand Lodge of Ukraine's website. It was a typical website, you know, this is our grandmaster, and this is this and this. And then, you know, right just after the invasion, I looked again, the Russians attacked it. Very clearly, there was all these lies and everything, and false information. I thought I felt kind of violated. Hey, the Russians have taken over the Masons. but I Jenni Awesome: no. Lance Hillsinger: was also proud that they thought, hey, the Russians think we've were important enough to be taken over. Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: And and and then a couple of years ago I I I checked that the Ukraine the websites back up and it looks at first sight to be all normal and everything. You can see in English or Ukrainian, but it does list people's names, it doesn't list times when there's meetings, all security things. So that really Jenni Awesome: wow. Lance Hillsinger: kinda hit home that that really is still people are still have to live on it's wartime there and and and the children suffer and their families suffer and whatever we can do to give a little solace to something, I think that people need hope. You know, sometimes that's yes, it maybe just a little trickle in the you know, in the huge necessary bucket, but it does people give people hope. And I think that that's what good social worker is. You you give Jenni Awesome: Yeah. Lance Hillsinger: people hope for a better day. Jenni Awesome: Yes, you do. So on that note, Lance, you have done some amazing things. You have some amazing perspectives and I'm so grateful that you're sharing this with the world and you've got those books out there. Do you have plans for any more insights, any more books in your retirement? Lance Hillsinger: for the moment I'm I'm written out. I've I've dabbled with a fiction book, but no, I I'm for the moment I'm written out. I have a soon to be four year old grandchild and and I'm enjoying that. And so that's good. And just so your listeners know, I have a website, Lancehilsinger.net. You can get more information about May and and Razom, and there's a short little video too that I've about the foster care system. Jenni Awesome: Well, excellent. Well, Lance, any last words for our listeners today? Lance Hillsinger: Just thank you, Jenny, for having me and I and I hope people enjoy this program and I hope they check out the website. Jenni Awesome: Right. Well, thank you for tuning in to the Jennifer Awesome podcast. My name is Jenny Awesome, and I hope you have a fantastic day.