Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Glenn Poulos and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Glenn Poulos and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:14
  Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
• 0:18
  Connections, the show where conversations stop
• 0:21
  being polite and start producing results. I'm
• 0:25
  Michael Foreman, and today's episode hits on
• 0:28
  something every business owner, sales professional,
• 0:31
  and relationship builder is thinking about right
• 0:35
  now. How do you grow your business through real
• 0:38
  relationships without sounding salesy? How do
• 0:42
  you sell in trust -based industries where credibility
• 0:46
  matters more than speed, and how to use AI as
• 0:52
  a support tool without turning conversations
• 0:54
  into canned scripts. My guest today lives at
• 0:59
  the intersection of trust, sales, and modern
• 1:02
  tools. We're talking about what genuine relationships
• 1:06
  look like when they actually move the needle,
• 1:09
  how trust gets built one conversation at a time,
• 1:13
  and why the human edge still wins, no matter
• 1:18
  how advanced the tech becomes. If you care about
• 1:22
  long -term growth, real connection, and staying
• 1:25
  relevant without losing your voice, You're in
• 1:28
  the right place. So let's get started. I'd like
• 1:31
  to introduce or welcome to my podcast, Glenn.
• 1:35
  I am so interested in what you have to say because
• 1:39
  I speak about the very same thing. And I'm really
• 1:44
  anxious to see your take on all of my questions.
• 1:48
  So, Glenn, if you don't mind, introduce yourself
• 1:51
  and kind of tell us in a Cliff Notes style how
• 1:54
  you got here today. Sure. well thanks michael
• 1:57
  it's great to be here enjoy you know happy to
• 1:59
  be on the show and stuff all that stuff so Yeah.
• 2:02
  So started in, in sales 40 years ago, I was,
• 2:05
  I failed out of the government. I got kicked
• 2:07
  out of the government for working too hard and
• 2:09
  went into sales in 1985. And that's when I started
• 2:13
  learning about the distribution game of distribution
• 2:16
  and, you know, buying and selling products and
• 2:18
  what have you. Right. And in 91, by 91, I'd been
• 2:21
  at it for five years, five and a half years.
• 2:23
  And I realized that the owners were doing better
• 2:25
  than I was. I was doing well as a salesman, but
• 2:28
  I thought, Hey, if I can be myself plus five
• 2:30
  other guys. is working for me, I could do even
• 2:32
  better. So started my first sales company in
• 2:35
  91 and grew that until the early 2000s. Built
• 2:39
  it, grew it, exited, had a nice exit, but there
• 2:42
  were some challenges along the way. Maybe we'll
• 2:44
  have a chance to get into that. And then when
• 2:47
  I left that company and I had a chance to start
• 2:49
  another company in a similar genre, I guess,
• 2:53
  of business. And in 2007, I started Gap Wireless,
• 2:56
  which... Again, distribution, high technology
• 3:00
  products and what have you. And in 2022, sorry,
• 3:04
  I sold that to private equity. And then I went
• 3:06
  to work for them for a couple of years. That
• 3:08
  was a whole, that's another book that I haven't
• 3:10
  written yet. And we'll get to that later to be
• 3:13
  written. But in 24, I finished up with them,
• 3:16
  but I wasn't finished up with business. So I
• 3:19
  bought a business similar to what I was doing
• 3:21
  in Canada, but in a different technology area
• 3:24
  so that I was, you know, I wasn't competing against
• 3:26
  my old employer. They're my old, you know, the
• 3:28
  private equity guys, right? So I moved to Florida
• 3:31
  and that's what I'm doing now. I'm running another
• 3:33
  distribution company in Orlando. And, you know,
• 3:36
  beyond that, I have my dogs with me wherever
• 3:39
  I go. And if I'm not doing either of those. You'll
• 3:45
  probably find me doing work in charity as what
• 3:48
  I call a charity DJ. So I DJ a lot of events
• 3:51
  for nonprofits, which you'd be surprised at the
• 3:56
  demand for low -cost DJs at charity events, right?
• 4:00
  And that's what I do for fun. That's kind of
• 4:02
  my little passion sideline, right? So that's
• 4:04
  kind of from here to there, from the 80s to today.
• 4:09
  Okay, I've got a very important question. What
• 4:12
  kind of dogs do you have? French bulldogs, Frenchies.
• 4:16
  Okay, good, good. Okay, I'm going to jump right
• 4:19
  into the questions. Everyone says relationships
• 4:23
  matter, but few build them well. What does a
• 4:28
  real business relationship look like when it's
• 4:31
  actually driving growth? Well, I mean, they all
• 4:37
  sort of begin with trust, right? But the first
• 4:41
  thing about a good relationship is you have to
• 4:44
  be useful, right? And so in business, there needs
• 4:48
  to be kind of a reason for it, right? So you
• 4:50
  have to share some insights and you have to identify
• 4:54
  opportunities. and then start to work together,
• 4:58
  right? But when you're, and so along the way,
• 5:00
  as you're building the relationship, some of
• 5:02
  the important things that come to mind would
• 5:03
  be consistency. So, and most people show up when
• 5:08
  you need something or they can sell something
• 5:12
  or what have you, but you want it to be more
• 5:14
  than that, right? You wanna be there on that
• 5:16
  day when the equipment breaks as well. And it's
• 5:19
  like, oh, you're in the building and the stuff
• 5:20
  is broken and you can actually get a chance to
• 5:23
  help them, right? I mean, and you wanna really,
• 5:26
  know their business. And in my book, I actually
• 5:29
  spend a bit of time going over this, that the
• 5:31
  best way to sell to a company is actually to
• 5:34
  learn how they, at the deepest level, how they
• 5:37
  make their money. Because it really gives you
• 5:39
  insight into the way your product may be used,
• 5:42
  right? And oftentimes you might have the, as
• 5:44
  my dad used to say, the emphasis on the wrong
• 5:47
  syllable, right? And where you don't really understand
• 5:50
  what they do, right? And so you're not really
• 5:52
  sure how to position yourself. and as a winning
• 5:55
  formula for them, right? So you need to know
• 5:57
  their business, what drives their budgets, who
• 6:00
  approves the spend, right? If it's a 50K deal,
• 6:03
  does that get signed by the manager or does that
• 6:06
  go to a VP or is it a small company and it goes
• 6:08
  to the owner, right? And that's super critical
• 6:11
  when you're trying to figure out about where
• 6:13
  your deals are in the process, right? And you
• 6:17
  want to be telling them the truth, even when
• 6:19
  it hurts, right? Sometimes the truth hurts, but
• 6:21
  short -term pain, long -term respect, right?
• 6:24
  Is what I say. And you want to think about things,
• 6:28
  you know, over a longer time span, right? You
• 6:31
  know, relationships should be something that
• 6:33
  lasts years. And then people ask me, why'd you
• 6:37
  write the book? And I wrote the book, Never Sit
• 6:39
  in the Lobby. Because I want people to learn
• 6:42
  how to get, act, and stay in front of customers
• 6:44
  and how to be a pleasure to do business with
• 6:47
  always, right? And so how do you get in front
• 6:50
  of clients? How do you stay there? How do you
• 6:51
  act there? And what do you do so that they want
• 6:54
  to keep asking you back, even when there's times
• 6:56
  when they don't give you business, right? And
• 6:59
  I guess that's my soliloquy on that part. In
• 7:03
  essence, you're saying a person needs to bring
• 7:08
  value to the relationship. You know, you have
• 7:11
  to show that you can give something without the
• 7:15
  thought of receiving anything, right? That's
• 7:19
  called having a servant's heart. So when you
• 7:21
  go to a networking event or meeting somebody
• 7:24
  one -on -one, you go in with a servant's heart.
• 7:27
  What can I do for you? You know, and then you
• 7:31
  work from there. So yeah, that... Feeling of
• 7:35
  trust has to be there. And there's an old mantra,
• 7:38
  know you like you, trust you, they'll do business
• 7:41
  with you. Well, you have to get through the know
• 7:44
  you and like you before you get to that trust
• 7:46
  factor. But the trust factor is the most important.
• 7:51
  Speaking of trust, in trust -based industries,
• 7:55
  people buy the person before the product. What
• 8:00
  behaviors earn them trust the fastest and which
• 8:04
  ones quietly kill it? OK, so, yeah, that's a
• 8:07
  good one. Right. So the first thing that jumps
• 8:10
  to my mind, you know, is the is the lack of genuine
• 8:13
  rapport. Right. It's jumping ahead in the in
• 8:15
  the life cycle of where you sit in the pecking
• 8:18
  order of the relationship. Right. But, you know,
• 8:21
  you need to, you know. You need to show up prepared,
• 8:25
  right? You need to know their systems, their
• 8:27
  assets, their past issues, and knowing what's
• 8:30
  going on with them. That's sort of what signals
• 8:33
  respect, right? Sloppy preparation kills respect
• 8:36
  faster than anything, right? It's kind of like
• 8:39
  you go in thinking you know everything and you're
• 8:40
  really, again, you're not in sync because you're
• 8:44
  just not doing the work, right? You want to do
• 8:48
  what you say. So if you promise a quote on Friday.
• 8:51
  you want to send a quote on Friday. And as I
• 8:53
  like to say, never fax the fax and never ship
• 8:56
  the shit, right? So if someone asks for a quote,
• 8:58
  if at all possible. you want to drop it off.
• 9:00
  Every time they ask for something, you want to
• 9:03
  use that as a door opener to get back in front
• 9:06
  of the customer, right? And because every time
• 9:08
  you get there, you get a chance to, as I love
• 9:11
  to say, ask for a mini tour where you can get
• 9:13
  behind the curtain and look at what they're doing,
• 9:15
  where your stuff's being used, how it's being
• 9:17
  used. And so that you can, and also you get to
• 9:20
  see where the competitors lie, right? You know,
• 9:22
  are they, you know, maybe you're competing against
• 9:24
  IBM or Hewlett Packard or someone like that.
• 9:26
  And it's like, are they all walking around with
• 9:28
  HP? t -shirts on and IBM coffee mugs, right?
• 9:31
  And we all know nobody ever got fired for buying
• 9:34
  IBM or HP, right? And so these are things, you
• 9:37
  know, you find out by dropping things off. So,
• 9:40
  you know, and then further along, you know, about
• 9:43
  this relationship ideals, staying calm under
• 9:46
  pressure, right? So, you know. deals can stall
• 9:50
  tariffs can get changed what a surprise who'd
• 9:53
  know anything about tariffs right now right which
• 9:55
  is the story of my life right now the you know
• 9:58
  lead times can slip production slots can move
• 10:01
  things like that right and you have to be able
• 10:03
  to manage that with a responsibility like and
• 10:07
  and a sense of truth and what have you right
• 10:10
  and you have to be able to handle it responsibly
• 10:12
  a lot of times that's where the real you know
• 10:15
  The guys who are not A players, they kind of
• 10:18
  crumble under the pressure, right? We're going
• 10:20
  to miss the production window. We're not going
• 10:22
  to hit the delivery date, you know, and how you
• 10:24
  manage those kinds of things, right? Anything
• 10:26
  that's a hard truth, tell it early, right? And
• 10:29
  get it out, make sure it's, and I always say,
• 10:31
  you know, bad news does not age well, right?
• 10:35
  And so if a unit will ship late, say it now.
• 10:38
  If the spec's not going to pass, say it now,
• 10:41
  tell them now and what have you, right? And so.
• 10:44
  Know your limits. And that's another thing like
• 10:46
  so don't be over promising and under delivering.
• 10:49
  Absolutely. You know, that's a common one. Your
• 10:52
  ego in check, humility, you know, be humble,
• 10:55
  you know, and and you want to be showing yourself
• 10:58
  to be protecting their interests, right? Is it
• 11:01
  the right tool? Don't you know, don't have them
• 11:04
  buy more than they need less than they need or
• 11:06
  what have you in order to because it might be
• 11:08
  a financially incentive to you, right? You know,
• 11:11
  and those are some of the rules I follow when
• 11:14
  interacting with my customers that align towards
• 11:17
  maintaining the relationship of trust. Yeah,
• 11:21
  that's very true. You never oversell your product.
• 11:26
  You know, one thing comes to mind, and I use
• 11:29
  this all the time, you know, people love to buy,
• 11:33
  but they hate to be sold to. Right. And you think
• 11:37
  about that, anything, you know, any product,
• 11:40
  anything. But listen, we're all human. And we'd
• 11:43
  love to buy things. But just like imagine yourself
• 11:47
  in a car dealership you hate to be sold to. Yeah.
• 11:52
  You use both sides of the coin in a car dealership.
• 11:55
  So I don't have to go through that. But even
• 11:57
  still, it makes you wonder. It's like, well,
• 11:59
  OK. And you think about all the different times
• 12:02
  that you're selling and you're like, oh, well,
• 12:05
  maybe I came across just a little too hard, you
• 12:08
  know. But yeah. What's the biggest mistake professionals
• 12:12
  make when they confuse activity with connection
• 12:16
  in networking and sales? So, sorry, could you
• 12:22
  just sort of repeat it? So the difference between
• 12:24
  activity and results? The biggest mistake professionals
• 12:29
  make when they confuse activity with connection
• 12:34
  in networking and sales. Okay. Yeah, that's...
• 12:40
  I'm actually going to take a second just to sort
• 12:43
  of ponder that, right? But, you know, people
• 12:46
  often think that... Being busy means they're
• 12:50
  being effective, right? Like, wow, I had a busy
• 12:52
  day today or something like that, right? And
• 12:54
  that doesn't necessarily mean that you're being
• 12:58
  effective, right? You know, activity can look
• 13:01
  like sending emails. you know, you're messing
• 13:04
  around on LinkedIn, you're attending a bunch
• 13:07
  of events, but connection can often look like,
• 13:10
  you know, one solid connection that day where
• 13:13
  there's a follow -up, there's an opportunity
• 13:15
  and it's real and it's in your lane or something
• 13:19
  like that, right? You know, the biggest mistake
• 13:21
  I think people make is they're chasing numbers
• 13:24
  instead of trust, right? And which will then
• 13:27
  breed the long -term, you know, the trust. base
• 13:31
  markets you know like the one i'm in now which
• 13:34
  is like utilities right people people remember
• 13:37
  how you make them feel and not how many times
• 13:39
  you called them or how many emails you sent them
• 13:41
  or how much marketing material you sent them
• 13:43
  right so you know it's easy to measure activity
• 13:46
  but connections are not as easy to measure right
• 13:49
  so you can easily say to your boss hey i made
• 13:52
  40 calls today but How do you tell them I moved
• 13:55
  one relationship forward in a genuine manner
• 13:58
  where I built a genuine rapport with somebody,
• 14:01
  right? And so these are kind of the mistakes
• 14:05
  that people make in the way they think about
• 14:06
  things. It's not about, oh, I nailed it. I got
• 14:09
  the 40 dials in. I got this many emails, et cetera,
• 14:13
  et cetera, right? So yeah, so I would definitely
• 14:17
  go for quality over quantity. And yeah. There's
• 14:20
  a difference between busy work. and being busy,
• 14:25
  right? I use the pandemic as a line in the sand,
• 14:29
  right? Before the pandemic, business was really
• 14:33
  transactional. You know, you have a widget, I
• 14:36
  have $3, I'll trade you, I'm a customer, or I
• 14:39
  put you on my customer list, and that's great.
• 14:43
  After the post -pandemic, you know, it's more
• 14:47
  relational. So instead of going out, I was in
• 14:50
  a mortgage business and I used to go to a networking
• 14:53
  event. I used to come home with a shoebox filled
• 14:56
  with business cards. And I'd say, look how good
• 14:59
  I did. When in essence, did I really connect
• 15:03
  with any one of those people? Not really. So
• 15:07
  now when I go to or when I teach or coach, I
• 15:11
  tell everybody. Try to concentrate on 15 people,
• 15:16
  15 business cards. Instead of 200, try 15, because
• 15:21
  that will tell me that you created a relationship
• 15:24
  with that person. And of course, follow up, right?
• 15:29
  The follow up is so, so very important. But that
• 15:33
  will set you in a much better place to follow
• 15:37
  up than if you have all those business cards.
• 15:41
  Okay, so. You work in spaces where credibility
• 15:45
  is everything. How should someone show up in
• 15:49
  a first conversation so they're remembered for
• 15:53
  the right reasons? Yeah, that's a good one. Because
• 15:58
  I'm just giggling because of the having shown
• 16:00
  up and, you know, and leaving the opposite, right?
• 16:05
  And that's where you kind of learn it through
• 16:06
  the school of hard knocks, right? But for me,
• 16:10
  it's always about like knowing your stuff cold.
• 16:13
  Right. So and I have a kind of a funny. kind
• 16:16
  of helpful chapter in the book called greed based
• 16:18
  learning right which where you have enough where
• 16:21
  you get a nice financial incentive about something
• 16:23
  it increases your ability to retain facts right
• 16:26
  so you can know the product you can know its
• 16:29
  limits its risks and what have you and you can
• 16:31
  retain it because there's a financial incentive
• 16:33
  but when you try to do that when there's no real
• 16:36
  win in it for you it's hard to retain it right
• 16:38
  and the and people are like what are you talking
• 16:42
  about kind of a thing. And so the way I, the
• 16:44
  way I often explain it to people and how you
• 16:45
  can kind of gain the system. If you have a lot
• 16:47
  of things to with, with customers to remember,
• 16:51
  you know, is when you're. When you're out buying
• 16:53
  a car, right? And you're looking at four different
• 16:55
  cars and you're going home to the wife and telling
• 16:56
  her which one you want to buy. Why is it you
• 16:59
  have the ability to memorize and know every spec
• 17:01
  in the car across the entire spectrum, right?
• 17:04
  And then she brings up three other cars and you
• 17:07
  know all the specs for those ones as well, right?
• 17:09
  And that's the effect of greed -based learning
• 17:12
  coming into effect, right? Because you've got
• 17:14
  such a vested interest in the outcome, right?
• 17:20
  You know, you want to try to create as many vested
• 17:22
  outcomes so that you can learn more and then
• 17:26
  leave the other stuff behind until it's relevant,
• 17:29
  right? So know your stuff cold. Sorry, I'm going
• 17:32
  in and out of the nuggets, but I like to share
• 17:34
  these things because the, you know, these are
• 17:37
  the things that I've written about and that I
• 17:39
  follow every day, right? So, you know, so know
• 17:43
  your stuff, have a point of view, proof, both,
• 17:47
  you know, real proof and social proof. you know,
• 17:50
  is also extremely valid, right? Like these other
• 17:53
  people are using it, they're getting 20 % more
• 17:55
  productivity or 20 % better throughput, or their
• 17:58
  costs have gone down 20%, or just showing them,
• 18:02
  you know, the showing the results in some sort
• 18:05
  of a manner, which demonstrates that this product
• 18:08
  will do and create the outcome that they're looking
• 18:10
  for. And hence also show them the feeling that
• 18:14
  that they're going to get having achieved the
• 18:16
  outcome, which is the one that they want, right?
• 18:18
  And often, Oftentimes you kind of bring in when
• 18:21
  you're when you're demonstrating or presenting
• 18:23
  things, you either present all the products,
• 18:26
  features and benefits. But you should really
• 18:29
  try to figure out which one is the one that's
• 18:31
  a game changer for the person that you're visiting
• 18:33
  that day. Right. Because the other ones might
• 18:36
  be interesting and nice, but they don't they
• 18:38
  don't matter. Right. And so like like we all
• 18:42
  like to drive a nice car or whatever. And I mean,
• 18:44
  it's nice when you have a nice engine in your
• 18:47
  car. But, you know, and you can, you know, you
• 18:50
  can pass quickly or whatever, but some guys are
• 18:52
  like motivated by what's the horsepower and the
• 18:54
  torque and the, right. Whereas I'm how smart
• 18:57
  is the cruise control, right? Like, how can I
• 19:00
  just set it and forget it? Right. And then just,
• 19:02
  you know, and every 20 seconds touch the wheel
• 19:04
  so that it doesn't shut off on me. Right. And
• 19:07
  do the, you know, and of course it's getting
• 19:09
  to the point now where it'll, it'll drive you
• 19:10
  there automatically, but. But I'm talking about
• 19:13
  the last 20 years, not the next 20. I think about
• 19:22
  my kids. I have two boys. One, I think they're
• 19:25
  34 and 31. And if you ask them about anything
• 19:29
  they did in college, any type of history lesson
• 19:33
  or anything else like that, they'll kind of stammer.
• 19:38
  kind of fumble around but if they ask them the
• 19:42
  specs on a baseball or a football player they'll
• 19:46
  give you the stats immediately from five years
• 19:48
  ago yeah so all of that is front and center in
• 19:53
  their minds and the stuff that they really didn't
• 19:55
  care about is back there you know so that's exactly
• 19:59
  what you're talking about that's exactly it yeah
• 20:03
  it's gotta be worth it for them so so yeah so
• 20:06
  i i thought of them immediately while describing
• 20:09
  it yes yes greed greed -based learning yeah they
• 20:13
  want to look good in front of their friends they
• 20:15
  want to look smart about sports in front of their
• 20:16
  friends like they want to think that they're
• 20:18
  you know and that's very important to a lot of
• 20:20
  people knowing that you know that they're participating
• 20:22
  in this this this this whole spectrum of sport
• 20:26
  right and how and and it's a big part of it right
• 20:29
  otherwise they wouldn't be they wouldn't have
• 20:30
  so many spectrum specs out there if they didn't
• 20:33
  if it wasn't important to people right and right
• 20:35
  yeah okay yeah because we could talk about that
• 20:39
  for like the next hour where does networking
• 20:42
  stop being helpful and start feeling transactional
• 20:46
  and how can you help people course correct in
• 20:50
  real time yeah so Well. Yeah. So when, when it's
• 20:57
  being transactional, you know, there's off, you're
• 20:59
  often like asking for things, you know, you know,
• 21:02
  like you might want to like, just drop the immediate
• 21:04
  ask. Right. So, you know, and you, you know,
• 21:08
  you don't want to meet someone to say, okay,
• 21:09
  well, you know, what's in it for me. And then
• 21:10
  try to move towards getting something out of
• 21:12
  it for yourself. Right. You want to say to yourself,
• 21:15
  like, why do they care about it and start to
• 21:17
  inquire inquisitively about what's, what's the
• 21:21
  deal? Like, why, why is something of this important?
• 21:24
  You know, you want to. be following up with them
• 21:27
  without selling right and you know the you want
• 21:30
  to maybe talk to them a bit longer in the stay
• 21:33
  in the conversation longer and that's where some
• 21:36
  of the magic will come out right where they'll
• 21:38
  drop a name about a vp that's going to sign off
• 21:41
  on it or something like that or you know whereas
• 21:44
  you know some people you know some people are
• 21:47
  just sort of going for the jugular right away
• 21:49
  and you know and they're not you know they're
• 21:51
  they're not allowing the networking environment
• 21:54
  to to flourish or whatever, right? And so, you
• 21:58
  know, I guess I like to say, think in seasons,
• 22:00
  not events, right? And, you know, one coffee
• 22:03
  doesn't mean anything, right? But when you're
• 22:06
  seeing them, you know, multiple times over six
• 22:08
  months, that's where a connection can grow and
• 22:11
  start to turn into something that's real, right?
• 22:14
  I found that asking questions, when you're networking
• 22:18
  with somebody or trying to get to know anybody,
• 22:22
  If you ask questions, ask the right questions,
• 22:24
  but ask questions, be inquisitive about them.
• 22:28
  You're getting all the information, plus you're
• 22:31
  having them talk about themselves. Listen, you
• 22:35
  and I both know that people love to talk about
• 22:38
  themselves. So once you're asking them questions,
• 22:42
  they're talking about themselves, but they're
• 22:44
  answering your questions and you're getting the
• 22:47
  facts and information that you need to go to
• 22:50
  the next step. So asking questions is very, very
• 22:54
  important. AI is everywhere right now. Where
• 22:59
  does it genuinely help relationship driven professionals
• 23:03
  and where does it get in the way? Okay. Well,
• 23:10
  obviously you're not, you've got to be careful
• 23:12
  not to let her try to replace the human side.
• 23:15
  Right. So it should support the human side, not,
• 23:18
  not replace it. Right. So where it helps is,
• 23:21
  you know, preparing for the meeting, right? So
• 23:23
  some are, you know, you can use it to, you know,
• 23:26
  like I said, you want to learn as much as you
• 23:28
  can about the company. AI now is an amazing tool
• 23:30
  to really dig down into the, into the crux of
• 23:33
  what the company does, how they generate income,
• 23:35
  what their profits and losses are, things like
• 23:38
  that. Recent news, perhaps even if they're public,
• 23:41
  you know, budget trends, maybe pain points that
• 23:44
  they're having corporately and whatever, like
• 23:45
  that stuff, you're going to pull out of AI, you
• 23:48
  know, and. allow you to walk in sharper and have
• 23:52
  a meaningful conversation with them, right? And,
• 23:55
  you know, it also then allows you to, on the
• 23:57
  other side of the call, to follow up better.
• 24:00
  Right. So you can you can perhaps either be recording
• 24:04
  it or some other kind of a note taking system,
• 24:06
  which then can be turned into into notes automatically
• 24:09
  that gets put into the CRM system that keeps
• 24:12
  some of the managers happy and stuff like that,
• 24:15
  but also triggers and flags, action items, follow
• 24:18
  ups, quotes, to do's, you know, reminders later
• 24:21
  on what's required. So you're kind of like you're
• 24:24
  in the middle of it on either on either side.
• 24:27
  It's helping you as a tool. you know, to do more,
• 24:30
  right? It's like building a deck in your backyard.
• 24:32
  You can bang nails into two by sixes all day
• 24:35
  long, or you can power drill them, you know,
• 24:37
  and we know both which one's easier, right? And
• 24:40
  it's, you know, it's not a better deck because
• 24:43
  you bang nails in and it took longer and it was
• 24:45
  harder, right? Well, I look at AI the same way,
• 24:48
  right? You know, you can use those tools to schedule
• 24:52
  your check -ins and stuff like that, but you
• 24:54
  need to be the one to check in, right? And so
• 24:56
  in a way, it's kind of common. sense, but common
• 25:00
  sense is not that common. So some people like
• 25:02
  really nowadays they're literally, cause you
• 25:04
  can, as you witness it yourself, you know, in
• 25:06
  business, you know, you're getting these emails
• 25:08
  and you can see a lot of them were just AI driven
• 25:12
  and not curated or not edited properly with a
• 25:16
  human. And some, you can say, Hey, maybe this
• 25:19
  guy used AI to come up with these ideas, but
• 25:21
  there's definitely a human element to it. It's
• 25:24
  just too, it's too specific. And that's where
• 25:27
  the, you know, the good and bad sort of line
• 25:30
  up for me. Right. And yeah. AI is a tool, you
• 25:34
  know, it just like any of your other tools, AI
• 25:37
  is a tool, but as you said, you can never replace
• 25:41
  that human element. I do. I recognize in an email,
• 25:46
  whether or not somebody used AI or not, I can
• 25:49
  tell just by the looks of it, whether or not
• 25:52
  it's AI driven, you know, you should really take
• 25:55
  a, you should ask it a question. properly ask
• 25:59
  it a question get your results and then formulate
• 26:02
  it with your human touch you know because otherwise
• 26:06
  anybody like myself i can see whether it's ai
• 26:10
  done or not you know i could just say well you
• 26:13
  don't really care because you just threw this
• 26:16
  right out so yeah absolutely what parts of networking
• 26:21
  should never be handed off to technology what
• 26:25
  we're just talking about, no matter how advanced
• 26:27
  it gets. Never hand it off to technology. That's
• 26:32
  a good one. So, well, I guess the final decision,
• 26:37
  right? of something would or shouldn't be handed
• 26:42
  off to technology, right? So it can help you
• 26:44
  to sort of create all the calculations and come
• 26:49
  up with models and situations that you can, but
• 26:51
  then someone has to come in and make that final
• 26:53
  decision, right? AI can analyze it for you, but
• 26:56
  you have to decide, right? So that's one thing,
• 26:59
  right? You know, big hires, I wouldn't do that
• 27:01
  with AI, right? Like that's something that has
• 27:04
  to be handled. Major contracts, it's both a huge
• 27:07
  help. It's immeasurable how much help it can
• 27:09
  be. But then then there's a piece of that that
• 27:12
  you have to be, you know, really, really coned
• 27:16
  in on because, you know, a lot of contract can
• 27:18
  be 80 pages long. And there's no question that
• 27:20
  a lot of it is boilerplate. And it's just sort
• 27:24
  of run of the mill boilerplate. And you're like
• 27:26
  some guy probably 200 years ago wrote the boilerplate
• 27:28
  and, you know, lawyers have been using it ever
• 27:30
  since. Right. And so there's a there's a, you
• 27:33
  know, an assumption there that you can. You or
• 27:36
  some other junior lawyer reads it and says it's
• 27:38
  boilerplate, you can move on, it doesn't matter.
• 27:40
  But when it gets to the indemnification, the
• 27:43
  terms of payment, the warranty clawbacks for
• 27:47
  such and such, the delivery, the price, the margins,
• 27:50
  those kind of things, it can interpret and explain
• 27:53
  to you what they are. But those are the ones
• 27:55
  where you need to focus in on as the person.
• 27:57
  And the rest of it. You know, it could say, hey,
• 28:01
  you might want to tweak something here or there,
• 28:03
  but it analyzed 80 pages. You only have to focus
• 28:06
  on six or seven things and not even read the
• 28:08
  80 page contract because without AI before you
• 28:11
  had to read it. Matt, if you ever want to fall
• 28:15
  asleep quickly, you know, read an 80 page document
• 28:18
  that, you know, that's written in legalese, right?
• 28:21
  The other thing you don't want to do with AI,
• 28:25
  of course, are like the hard conversations, right?
• 28:27
  Like firing somebody, telling them their performance
• 28:30
  is bad, you know, disputes with your vendors,
• 28:33
  you know, complicated conversations with your
• 28:36
  customers, things like that, right? Yeah. Something
• 28:39
  you want to have, it's got to come from you.
• 28:42
  Yeah, personally, because if you're unhappy with
• 28:45
  it, you can't just have a boilerplate email and
• 28:49
  send it off because that's pretty cold. If you
• 28:52
  do that, you know, you have to keep professional,
• 28:56
  stay professional because a you never burn bridges.
• 29:00
  And B, you have to you're, you always have to
• 29:03
  be aware of who you're speaking to, and their
• 29:07
  network of people, because you might in frustration
• 29:12
  or in your your anger fire somebody but they
• 29:16
  may be connected to somebody bigger and better
• 29:19
  yeah you have to be very careful yeah the one
• 29:23
  last thing i wanted to say it popped in my mind
• 29:25
  as i was finishing off there as well was the
• 29:27
  i had the experience in the last few years of
• 29:32
  having experienced both in creating a value culture
• 29:35
  and you know the mission statement and the core
• 29:37
  values of a business having it been done what
• 29:41
  I feel is the right way, which is, which is getting
• 29:43
  a group together for not, you know, a semi extended
• 29:46
  period of time, meaning like a full day or a
• 29:48
  two day thing on developing the core mission
• 29:51
  culture and core values of a business. And then
• 29:54
  have another one where a CEO came in having Googled
• 29:58
  them on the weekend and brought them in on Monday
• 30:00
  and said, our core, here's our core values. Right.
• 30:03
  And like. you know, it doesn't take rocket science
• 30:05
  to figure out, you know, which ones resonated
• 30:08
  more with the staff than the, you know, and it
• 30:12
  was such a huge learning experience for me. Right.
• 30:15
  And I, cause I actually was literally challenged
• 30:17
  the guy and I said, well, did you like just Google
• 30:20
  these on the, on the way in? He goes, well, yeah.
• 30:23
  And I'm like, you're joking, right? He's like,
• 30:25
  no. And I'm like, that's not how you do it. And.
• 30:30
  And so it was a real sore spot for me. And people
• 30:33
  have been joking about it that they just weren't
• 30:40
  real core values because they weren't developed
• 30:41
  with a core component of the staff. to come up
• 30:45
  with them. Right. And when we developed the core
• 30:47
  values, that gap wireless, it was a two day affair
• 30:50
  and it was like brutal process. But at the end
• 30:54
  of it, we all believed in the core values. And
• 30:56
  then we hired, fired, motivated, bonus, rewarded.
• 30:59
  Yeah. Everything, you know, was, was if you,
• 31:02
  and we had everyone got money every month that
• 31:04
  they were able to give to people in the business
• 31:06
  for doing good things, but they had to have a
• 31:07
  core value call out, you know? And so don't use
• 31:11
  AI for that. You can use it to come up with the
• 31:13
  stratum of. of ideas that you're going to use
• 31:16
  and to curate ideas, but you have to argue and
• 31:19
  fight it out with your staff to say, no, that's
• 31:21
  not, you know, you can't just say people first
• 31:23
  customers are, you know, are the best and, you
• 31:27
  know, those nonsensical things. Right. And yeah.
• 31:30
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. All
• 31:34
  right. Looking back, which relationships created
• 31:37
  the biggest turning points in your business?
• 31:41
  And what did you do differently with those connections?
• 31:45
  Well, I guess, you know, in the beginning, you
• 31:51
  know, the, as I was changing careers from like,
• 31:53
  I joke about being government into sales, right.
• 31:55
  The sales mentors that I had, you know, you know,
• 31:59
  really showed me how doing certain things, certain
• 32:01
  ways. you know, can make a difference, right?
• 32:05
  Like following sales mentors was a great thing
• 32:07
  for me. And I wrote down everything and that's
• 32:09
  the genesis of the book too, right? Was all the
• 32:12
  rules I learned from all the people along the
• 32:14
  way, right? You know, getting involved with business
• 32:17
  partners along the way, that sort of became turning
• 32:19
  points. And, you know, especially when the partnership
• 32:23
  or allegiance alliance or whatever, where there
• 32:25
  was shared risk in the outcome, not just somebody
• 32:29
  that had a... you know, a say or someone that
• 32:32
  had a, you know, you know, some sort of a respect
• 32:35
  in the thing or whatever. Right. Another sort
• 32:38
  of turning points and issues would have been
• 32:40
  some tough customer, you know, interactions and
• 32:43
  learning from that. Right. And where, how they
• 32:45
  played out and how we were, you know, managed,
• 32:49
  treated, punished, and or, or rewarded, you know,
• 32:52
  forthwith for for what had gone on, right. And,
• 32:56
  you know, those are those are some of them, right,
• 32:58
  you know, and, you know, when I sold the business
• 33:00
  to private equity, and I came together with a
• 33:03
  whole group of new kind of business people I'd
• 33:06
  never met before, that was huge for me. Because
• 33:08
  I mean, I was always in a, you know, kind of
• 33:10
  the small business world, you know, owner operator
• 33:13
  kind of businesses and private equity operates
• 33:15
  at a completely different level, right, the way
• 33:17
  they you know, the way they're put together and
• 33:20
  then their people are top notch, right? Absolutely.
• 33:25
  Absolutely. Let's bring this podcast full circle.
• 33:30
  And if someone wants to grow their business through
• 33:34
  relationships this year, what one mindset shift
• 33:40
  would change the way they approach every conversation?
• 33:46
  One mind shift would be from, you know, how do
• 33:48
  I close a deal to how I create a deal that can
• 33:51
  compound, right? So getting one deal at the,
• 33:54
  you know, for in by hook or crook through one
• 33:57
  means or another seems, you know, might be a
• 33:59
  big deal. It might be rewarding, right? But what
• 34:01
  if that deal could be compounded and turned into
• 34:03
  a 10 year annuity, right? So that's one way.
• 34:07
  Right. As I always like to say, you know, you
• 34:09
  want to go from pitching to diagnosing. Right.
• 34:11
  You don't always want to be pitching. You want
• 34:13
  to be looking under the covers of what's really
• 34:16
  wrong so that you can present something in a
• 34:19
  manner that's going to solve the problem and
• 34:21
  create the feeling that the customer is trying
• 34:25
  to achieve by virtue of the problem that got
• 34:27
  you in the door in the first place. Right. And,
• 34:29
  you know. The other thing is stop sort of thinking
• 34:32
  about it from volume and think about it in terms
• 34:34
  of like the depth, right? So, you know, the,
• 34:38
  so in other words, like 500, like small clients
• 34:42
  or whatever, versus 10 strong ones that are repeatable
• 34:45
  and multi -year, you know, is what I mean by
• 34:47
  that, right? The margins, right? Like, you know,
• 34:50
  most, a lot of people don't understand what gross
• 34:53
  margin is. And, you know, the, oh, I got a $100
• 34:56
  ,000 deal. I'm like, oh, what was the margin,
• 34:58
  right? And they're like, what's that? Right.
• 35:00
  You know, and so, you know, I mean, like that's
• 35:02
  so common and I'm like, okay, well forget it.
• 35:05
  We don't need to have this conversation, but
• 35:07
  you know, but some people say, oh, well, you
• 35:09
  know, I don't know. It's like six points or whatever.
• 35:11
  I'm like, okay, well that's, that's, that's not
• 35:13
  a hundred K deal to me. Right. That's like a
• 35:16
  10 K deal to me, you know? And that's right.
• 35:19
  Right. And so, you know, and if there's no gross
• 35:22
  margin, if there's no gross margin there, it
• 35:25
  wasn't a sale. Right. And, oh, well, you know,
• 35:28
  it gets us in the door. No. No, no. Right. And,
• 35:31
  you know, and then of course you, you want to
• 35:33
  try to go from being a vendor to being a partner
• 35:35
  in their decision -making process and to being
• 35:38
  integral to their, you know, to how they run
• 35:40
  things and them respecting your decision, not
• 35:42
  your decisions, but your, your inputs and things
• 35:44
  on stuff. Right. So. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 35:48
  That, that is so correct. When you start thinking
• 35:53
  of, you know, the net profit, you know, over
• 35:57
  the. over the sale price. You might sell something
• 36:01
  for $100 ,000, but the cost was $98 ,000. So
• 36:06
  was that a $100 ,000 deal? Not really. That was
• 36:09
  a $2 ,000 deal. You have to really look at it
• 36:13
  from that perspective. Glenn, I thank you so
• 36:16
  much for coming on my podcast. If somebody wanted
• 36:19
  to get hold of you, what's the best way that
• 36:21
  they can get hold of you? Best way, just connect
• 36:24
  to me on LinkedIn, fire me a message, and I'll
• 36:26
  be happy to respond. And I look forward to talking
• 36:29
  to anyone that wants to engage. Perfect. That
• 36:33
  conversation right there is why networking still
• 36:36
  matters. Real relationships still drive business.
• 36:40
  Trust still opens doors. And technology only
• 36:45
  works when it supports who you already are. If
• 36:49
  something you heard today made you rethink. how
• 36:53
  you approach conversations, take it with you
• 36:56
  into your next meeting, call, or introduction.
• 37:00
  Pay attention to how people respond to you when
• 37:03
  you slow down, listen more, and lead with sincerity.
• 37:07
  If this episode gave you value, share it with
• 37:11
  someone who believes relationships are the real
• 37:13
  growth strategy. And be sure to follow Networking
• 37:17
  Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections, so
• 37:19
  you can never miss a conversation that challenges
• 37:22
  how business is done. I'm Michael Foreman. Keep
• 37:26
  your conversations real, your follow -up intentional,
• 37:29
  and remember, your next relationship could be
• 37:33
  the one that changes everything. Glenn, thank
• 37:36
  you again for coming on the podcast, and I can't
• 37:39
  wait to talk to you soon. Thank you. Well, hold
• 37:47
  on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let's hear from
• 37:50
  our sponsors. David Neal, co -founder, Revved
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  matter where you're moving, Henry has the right
• 38:32
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  561 -427 -4888. insights today. And of course,
• 38:46
  a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners,
• 38:49
  for tuning in and spending your time with us.
• 38:52
  If you're interested in my digital courses, being
• 38:55
  coached or having me come and talk to your company,
• 38:58
  just go to Michael and fill out the request form.
• 39:02
  Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
• 39:06
  It's about being present. So take what you've
• 39:09
  learned today, get out there and make some meaningful
• 39:11
  connections. If you've enjoyed this episode,
• 39:15
  please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a
• 39:18
  review and share it with someone who could use
• 39:20
  a little networking inspiration. Let's keep the
• 39:23
  conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
• 39:26
  Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website, foreman
• 39:31
  .com slash podcasts.