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Activating Sustainability | Ep 52: International Women's Day 2025 · Activating Sustainability

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:07
  Speaker B: Welcome to Activating Sustainability, the Anthesis podcast. I'm your host, Chris Peterson. And to celebrate International Women's Day, I'm pleased to be joined by four Anthesis peers to explore their journeys in sustainability in gender equality. While it feels like we've made a lot of progress on the gender equality, it is a sobering reminder that according to data from the World Economic Forum and the current rate of progress, it will take until the year 2158, or roughly five generations, before we reach full gender parity. To explore this further, I'm joined today by Amrit Karbasi, senior business consultant within our brand and comms department, Annabelle Stam, Managing Director for North America, Eulalia Mirales Sabadel, head of sustainability, internal communication and Corporate culture in Anthesis Spain, and Emily Bartlett, manager on our Impact Capital team. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining.
• 1:02
  Speaker C: Thanks for having us.
• 1:03
  Speaker B: I know from previous conversations, I know we're all pragmatic optimists and expect that the tone of our discussion will really focus on that aspect. But before we get into that, Emily, I wondered if you could speak briefly to the current climate around women's rights and issues.
• 1:19
  Speaker D: Yeah, sure. I'd be happy to. So, just important that we acknowledge that in the current global climate, it can sometimes feel like the progress that's been made in many arenas of impact can sometimes feel like it's regressing. And this, of course, relates to women's equality as well. So, for example, we're starting to see some companies roll back programs that help to mandate equality across gender and other and mitigate systemic barriers, which can be fairly disheartening to see. But despite this, we firmly believe that makes this type of discussion on accelerating action even more important than ever, and that looking to be inspired by women who continue to drive impact in sustainability and in other arenas, and many different people who have different identities continuing to be really driven by this is really important and a great way to remain motivated and to drive progress in any circumstance.
• 2:09
  Speaker B: Thanks, Emily. Really appreciate that. And maybe Annabelle, do you want to speak a little bit about how Anthesis is approaching gender equality and sustainability?
• 2:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. As n thesis, we're working to accelerate a sustainable future, and we cannot have a sustainable future without gender equality. So I'm really excited for other students to hear from some of the fantastic women that we have in our organization today.
• 2:35
  Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, thank you all so much for doing this. And maybe the place that we'd love to start is around kind of inspiring women that have shaped your journey. I Know, like, personally, I've had the chance to work with so many within anthesis and so many clients outside of anthesis, and maybe Amrit to start with. You would love to hear if there's been a woman or women that have really shaped your journey.
• 3:00
  Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I feel like it sort of sits in two buckets. On a wider scale, there's a young American activist called Leah Thomas, and she really applies this lens of intersectionality when it comes to environmentalism. So she looks at how factors like your race and class can really impact your experience with the natural world around you. So she talks about things like there's a lot of lack of tree cover in black and brown neighborhoods in the US and how that tree cover is really important, not just for esthetics, but actually in terms of COVID and air purity, and that's having an impact on those communities there. So I think it's interesting how she looks at environmentalism through that lens. And she talked about how you can't be sustainable in just an unsustainable system. So she really pushes the needs for everyone to have access to basic environmental human rights like clean air, clean water, healthy, accessible food. So I think the way that she applies that lens is really interesting and has definitely sort of carried through in terms of how I look at environmentalism. So that's sort of like in one bucket and in the other bucket and then more personal level is my very first manager, my former. One of my first jobs, she was pioneering in terms of looking at climate action through a comms lens and actually looking at how we communicate around environmentalism and climate action. And I think that's something that definitely has stuck with me because I'm not a data girl. So actually looking at climate action through the lens of communications was really inspiring and something that I took forward.
• 4:36
  Speaker B: That's wonderful. And then maybe. Would you like to go next?
• 4:42
  Speaker E: Yeah, sure. Well, in my case, I can share who was the woman responsible for me dedicating the last 25 years to the environment and sustainability? I didn't know her, in fact, because she died 10 years before I was born. So I never met her. But at a very young age, I like, in my 18 years old, I read her most famous book, Silent Spring. I'm talking about the marine biologist, bestselling author and communicator, Rachel Carson, who work and cause a positive impact that has reached the entire globe. So this is my reference and the reason maybe that I am doing what I am doing. I want to share with you at a real local level from my City Barcelona. I could talk about a woman called Teresa Frankesa is a PhD in Biological Science also and she is one of the leading figures in environmental education and education for sustainability here in Catalonia. And just not forget that education is the most powerful weapon to change the world and that many, many women have stood out and continues to stand out in the field of education also here in from Spain.
• 6:02
  Speaker B: Wonderful. And it's a great reminder of just that, like cascading impact that can pass through generations of really inspiring women and efforts within that. And Emily, would you like to go next?
• 6:13
  Speaker D: Sure, sure, I'd be happy to. So I think, yeah. On the theme of external inspiration, I think Kate Rayworth and Mariana Marato are two economists I really admire. And I think Raworth's work in donor economics is fairly well known within the sustainability field. But I just think that it's. Yeah, her work's really been inspirational and is pretty iconic within the space. And while Maticato's work isn't as focused on just sustainability, really her work around mission oriented innovation and working both within the public and private sector to drive public value creation as well as kind of profit and economic growth are really inspiring and I think are different ways of seeing concepts such as value in a way that we hear, you know, stakeholder capitalism versus shareholder and all these different concepts. But I think both women specifically working in the field of economics have driven a different way and different ways of thinking about this and influenced both public and private policy in a really exciting way.
• 7:17
  Speaker B: Oh, fascinating. I need to learn more about them. They sound incredible. And then maybe to wrap us up on this question, Annabel, do you want to share, share your inspiration?
• 7:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And just how fun it is getting to share some of the inspiring women that we've all had through our careers that has sort of really helped push us along in the work that we do. I'd say for me it's Alan MacArthur. I was a really young girl when she was the youngest woman. I think she was 24 years old when she first solo sailed around the world. And then watching her then take the record for the fastest person to second navigate the globe, it was just such an inspiring thing to see a woman, a young woman out there accomplishing. So for her to then take the platform that she has and set up the Ellen MacArthur foundation, really focusing on this idea of circularity just really doubled down her inspiration. To me, I think that concept of circularity is something that really inspired me to get into sustainability. I've always felt that like the current systems that we operate in just don't make sense. I remember being a teenager and kind of learning being like, oh, what? Okay, so we take this stuff out of the ground, we put all of this energy into making something and then we just dump it. Like that's how we do this. That doesn't make sense. Or even from an energy perspective, you know, working with companies in the early days of Scope one and SCOPE two footprinting, it's oh, you don't know how much energy that you're using and just like the opportunity to reduce and improve. So anyway, I think Ellen MacArthur has done really wonderful things in like promoting the concept of circularity, has made it really visible, but also has done a lot of work in terms of the technical and process side of things. So yeah, she's been a real inspiration to me.
• 8:53
  Speaker B: Amazing. Like I said, animal. So fun to think about like all these inspiring women and imagine it's going to cascade for many of us to think about the women that have impacted us as we go through this and maybe to shift from kind of backward looking to forward looking. Would love to hear from you all at what do you see as the role of women in kind of the future of sustainability?
• 9:16
  Speaker D: Yeah, I think in terms of the future of sustainability, I think as we've seen there's so many great women that we look to for really interesting inspiration in this space. So I think the main thing is just to continue to do great work in this area and I think continuing I. To bring that kind of original question a bit more personally I really would love to give a shout out to my manager at and Thesis, Astra Daruva, who is the head of Impact Capital here. And I think she really represents like female leadership in a really fantastic way and is, yeah, really demonstrating the type of brave and bold and exciting work that you can do in this space. And yeah, I think that continuing to develop those types of really exciting structures like the Cosmetics Pivot Fund and Industry Pivot Fund, which and Thesis is really excited about. I think it's just to be working with a team that is led by a woman and to be doing this type of really exciting work I think is, yeah, a really great way to think about the work that we can all be leading in the future of sustainability and would love to see continue.
• 10:15
  Speaker B: Fantastic. And I know when we're talking about this, you had mentioned a book that you had recently read that you thought was really relevant to this conversation.
• 10:24
  Speaker E: Yeah, I recently read this book. This edition is in Catalan, but I highly recommend the title is why Women will save the planet. So to find the answers to this very interesting question, you can read the book. And yes, for me it's true that our patriarchal Western society has led us through the history to the current state of collapse. So I'm convinced that with a female leadership, or even better, with a mix of all gender identities, leadership, we can change the world for the best.
• 10:58
  Speaker A: I really like that last piece about all the different gender pieces and real diversity into this because the way I see what we're working with is that we are trying to address one of the largest, most complex global puzzles we've ever seen. Nobody quite knows how this puzzle works and how it's all going to come together. So why limit that to just one, one view, one approach, one experience. By bringing in this diversity, you're really able to kind of amplify the expertise, the insights, the thoughts, the voices that we have to be able to collectively solve this challenge that we're. We're going after.
• 11:33
  Speaker D: Yeah, I think that's a really important point, is that there. It's really great to see such great examples of strong female leadership throughout the space. But I think the most impressive initiatives are led by folks who have a range of experience, many different genders, identities and can bring local knowledge, lived experience, all of that together. And I think that's what we're really proud of at and thesis is being able to bring together a diverse range of expertise of global perspectives and really try to Annabel's earlier point, solve really challenging meaty problems with a unique skill set that we can all bring to the table.
• 12:09
  Speaker C: I'm totally in agreement. I think it definitely goes back to what I was saying around intersectional environmentalism and actually applying everyone, no matter who you are, everyone has different components to their identity and bringing that brings different perspectives, but also unlocks different solutions. So actually the more perspectives we can get, the more solutions we can come to together, which is really exciting and interesting.
• 12:32
  Speaker E: Yeah, sure. Like biodiversity is needed. Biodiversity for the ecosystems, you need biodiversity. So for good health, social prosperity and ecosystems, you need this gender diversity.
• 12:47
  Speaker C: I love that meeting.
• 12:50
  Speaker D: I think there's so many different types of leadership and sometimes people think that women lead in a certain way, but in reality I've had a myriad of both of really fantastic leaders across the board and they all bring their own flavor and strengths to that as well. But I think a major component of some of the great leaders I've worked with. Yeah. Who've been women are around having a real understanding and listening to their teams in a really great way and kind of bringing those voices to the forefront. So while I don't think that's necessarily a gendered thing, I think it's a leadership trait that we can all consider and try and, yeah. Amplify those voices and bring different opinions from across the organization to the forefront and demonstrate that type of leadership.
• 13:31
  Speaker B: Oh, that's great. And maybe just out of curiosity, are there other aspects of when we talk about that, like female leadership or women in leadership that really stand out as what you see as differentiating? And then maybe on the flip side, what are some of the unique challenges that you see as kind of powerful women leaders within amputees in the sustainability space?
• 13:51
  Speaker D: Yeah, I think I honestly do try and shy away from anything that is considered a specific trait of certain leaders. I think that we can all learn from that or from different leadership styles, I suppose. But as I'd mentioned, I do think that having high eq, let's say, which can be something that's associated with female leaders, but it's not always the case and it often is demonstrated across the board, gender wise. I think that's a really great thing to drive forward. And I do also, I think in terms of the challenges, again, this is the case with many different people throughout their lives. But I certainly think that, and we know through the data that women often have more caregiving responsibilities at home, whether that's for children or family members or whatever that may be. And I do think that we still see some systemic and structural issues around designing or how traditional workplaces are designed and how you balance the myriad of responsibilities and really important responsibilities to everyone. But that can be really difficult to manage when you've just got a 9 to 5 job that or longer. Let's be realistic. It's not really nine to five always. That, yeah, is also a cool part of your life and experience. So I would say that seems to be a continuing challenge and unique aspect of leadership challenges that women face. And that's, I think, again, shifting, but definitely something that we can do to set up workplaces that are in. Can help people balance that.
• 15:18
  Speaker A: I think that's such a good point. And I think Covid was a really interesting time for a number of caregivers, actually for everybody, because it really pulled back this curtain of this very hidden part of the individual and the amount of work that goes on beyond work as a caregiver. And I think one of the most important things around the movement, around any kind of wave of feminism, is really around equality. And that equality really starts in the home. I feel incredibly privileged to lead the 250amazing sustainability activators that there are in North America. And my job is incredibly important to me and the purpose and the work that we do. But in addition to that, you know, I am a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a. I'm a friend, I'm a daughter, I'm all of these different things. And I think it's really important that we're able to show up as our full selves. And I do feel a lot of responsibility as a leader who happens to be a woman, to have a bit of visibility around this space and kind of acknowledge the fact that, you know, that I am a mother and that there are sometimes these competing priorities. I was actually very nearly late for this podcast, don't tell anyone, because one of my little ones had stolen my headphones and pulled them apart. Sometimes there are things that just like, aren't visible in. In the backgr. But yeah, just coming back to that quality piece, I feel like I'm able to do a lot of what I do because I have a husband who really supports me in these pieces and it's very much kind of an equal partnership of shared caregiving. And I think he's someone who is able to be very visible as a father in the role that he does and really support me with the work that I do.
• 16:54
  Speaker C: I think that what you said, Annabel, around caregiving or parenthood is really interesting and there's a lot of research out there that parenthood actually is a key turning point for a lot of people, making those shifts to more sustainable behaviors. And with that comes a lot of eco anxiety as you reassess your position in the world. And I think what's really interesting, drawing on my own experiences, is the resourcefulness that comes with parenthood. I look at my mum, for instance, and I look at the way that she. This is on a very small scale, but when she boils veg, she doesn't throw away that water, she reuses it for that broth, for dolls or suits, for instance. And I think what's quite interesting is that intergenerational approach when it comes to sustainable behaviors. And, Chris, you were asking around how women play a role in shaping the future of sustainability. Actually instilling those sorts of sustainable behaviours to the next generation is a key part of that. So I think that's very interesting to lean on in terms of that resourcefulness that can come with caregiving or parenthood is one to look at.
• 17:57
  Speaker B: Wonderful. And then I know Illulia, you had a few thoughts in this area as well. Would you like to share those?
• 18:04
  Speaker E: Well, yes, I was thinking that. Sure. Women, we have, I believe, a stronger instinct to be carnivores from the. Or DNA, the historical evolution. And by extension, we have a planet to take care of, the planet, it's not ours. We are the caretakers of the world. So I'm convinced women probably have a crucial role in spreading this culture, of taking care of ourselves, of our environment, immediate environment, like family and extension, community, so country, so the world and the beings around us. So we have these stronger instincts. So I think it's the first step to making the world a livable place.
• 18:51
  Speaker D: I love that. And I actually think there's quite a unifying sentiment around that.
• 18:56
  Speaker A: Right.
• 18:56
  Speaker D: Like, I think people from many different perspectives could probably agree that wanting to prioritize and give back to your local environment, your local community, the people in your household or your child's school or that type of piece, that sense of just looking out for others, I think is quite transcendent. And looking out for the wider planet in that way, I think is something that shouldn't just be within the realm of sustainability, you know, something that does bring together anyone who is really committed to their community to that. That families to that type of piece. And again, while women do tend to be in that space very frequently, I think that is something that people can relate to on many, many levels.
• 19:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. And, Emily, I think it's always fascinating, kind of reflecting on this conversation and a number of my experiences as a father and son. They. I'm always amazed at how much credit kind of gets thrown my way for just doing the most basic parenting practices or showing up wearing, kind of caregiving, versus my partner, who seems to be under this incredible amount of pressure to do it all right. And it's just fascinating that it feels like we've made so much progress but have so far to go within this space for that true quality, like you were saying, Annabelle, of progress.
• 20:07
  Speaker E: Absolutely. Nowadays, I still have to hear what an incredible husband you have, who helps you so. Who helps you so much at home and with the children. And naturally, I say everyone helps as much as they can according to their circumstances. So it's natural. So this is not about gender, but it's a pity that nowadays it's like a surprising issue, this situation.
• 20:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. It's really kind of jarring and shocking, and maybe that builds to the next day I'd love to explore with all of you, which is, as a man who aspires to do better, but often fails. I'd love if you have any suggestions or insights in terms of how men can show up as better allies or this process.
• 20:53
  Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's just trying to recognize different people's experiences and, you know, realities back home. And I think, Annabel, your earlier point of kind of COVID revealing a lot of that stuff. I remember I worked with a CFO in my previous organization who was incredible but always very focused on work. I didn't want to bother her. I think I probably just was a bit intimidated by her. And then during COVID she. We were on a call and she had one of her kids come kind of sit on her lap. And it just really softened my perspective of her. And we spoke about stuff outside of work. And I felt that really meant that I had a better perspective of who she was as a leader and her reality outside of work. And it made me admire her all the more, as I do for any parent. So all the different things that they balance. So, Chris, I guess it's what I'm really saying there is just trying to be proactive around thinking around different women's realities back home and how. How to incorporate, I don't know, things, even small things. And this is not again, specific to women, but just honoring people's time and not having meetings run over because people need to go to pick up the kids and doing all that type of stuff. I think that benefits not only women, but all of us at work. But a couple. A couple of things tangibly that I've really been impressed with in the workplace is that I had a male colleague notice that a lot of women were taking or the women on the team were taking notes pretty consistently and following up with action items and that type of piece. And that was not aligned to kind of the seniority. It was just aligned to gender. And so I think that person noticing that made a really big difference to me. I was really impressed and really appreciated it. And along a similar vein, I had a colleague who really, basically we were having an open discussion around paid transparency. And the male colleague basically said, okay, this. We should be aware that this can disproportionately affect women. Right? And so I think that type of thing, recognizing that with all the best will in the world, you're never going to have a perfect setup around this stuff, but just being able to advocate for that stuff and balancing listening to women while also. And giving them space to contribute themselves while also advocating for them, especially if they're not in the room, I think is A really helpful way to show up.
• 23:07
  Speaker A: I think they're such good examples, Emily. And I think that's my. I think that's my call. I might ask is that advocacy piece. Someone once gave me this advice which was be careful what you're good at. And it really speaks to that kind of note taking in organization if you. Yeah, it's a really challenging dynamic where there are a lot of tasks like that or like calendar organization and things like that that can really fall to the woman despite seniority or anything there. So yeah, being careful what you're good at, but then just really encouraging men to speak up. And I have had some instances and it's.
• 23:43
  Speaker D: They.
• 23:44
  Speaker A: They've been really notable to me when a man has spoken up, when they've seen some inequality in a lineup, in meetings, seniority in any of these things. And some women feel very strongly and are able to have a strong voice in this space. Many women don't. So being able to advocate and call out where you see something that might not be equal or could be improved by my more diverse views, I think would be my recommendation here. My call out here.
• 24:09
  Speaker C: Annabelle. I think that's so great and definitely speaks to what I would see around in terms of male allyship, the advocacy piece and I think the point around diverse perspectives as well. Like really creating a space for diverse perspectives and for everyone and really tangibly that's something as simple as in a meeting if you've noticed someone hasn't spoken or without calling them out and making them feel uncomfortable, you can say does anyone have anything else to add? Or Chris, how about you? Or calling out names just to allow for that diverse range of perspectives. I remember when I started as a trainee a good few years ago, I it was around Covid time I just stepped into a brand new role and I was a trainee and actually virtual meetings made me a lot more nervous than in person meetings. And I really struggled with those visual and verbal cues and be able to chip in with my opinion and someone in that meeting. It was as simple as being like Amrit, did you have anything to add in a really lovely and nurturing way without calling you out? Gave me that space to offer up my opinion. And I think something like that is great practice for anyone and everyone. But especially in this male allyship topic that we're speaking about, I think is something to think about.
• 25:20
  Speaker D: I think that's great. And the only other thing I would say is just I think reading up on some of this stuff and I'm sure a lot of Reports and articles and things will come out around International Women's Day. But I highly recommend a book called Invisible Women. I will say it's a little. It can be frustrating to read. There are some things which I don't think are necessarily intentional, but the way that history has gone is like, you know, women's approach to medical care or. And I would hope this has changed, but it. Crash dummies in cars used to be suited to an adult man and not to women. And so women had a much higher proportion of injuries. And so it is these things, which by no means do I think the designer of this car thought, oh, I'm going to make this dangerous for a woman. That's clearly not the case. But it's just that baseline thought and so finding ways to think about how we approach things at work, what your immediate assumptions are, because the whole world can sometimes be pushing us to think of a certain type as the baseline. So continuing to educate yourself around different ways that that that kind of systemic challenge can show up, I think is a really great way of being an effective ally and is something I definitely try to do in spaces where I try and be an ally for folks.
• 26:29
  Speaker A: This really reminds me of the it's okay to Save My life campaign that we did. If you haven't seen this, I really encourage you to check this out. It was a piece that we did with St. John's Ambulance, and there was some research that showed that it was like 46% of men weren't comfortable placing a defibril. I can't say this word, defibrillator on a woman's chest or giving them cpr. So it was like it was this fun bra that was designed that says okay to save my life and providing guidance on giving CPR to women. I found that shocking. And I definitely live a little bit more in fear of my life knowing that many men are too nervous to. To save it. But, yeah, I think it's such an interesting example of that kind of Invisible women piece, Emily, that you mentioned. My personal frustration, really getting some of my home truths at the moment is my desk. I know everyone's going to say, we'll just get an electric desk or one that moves up and down, but even those start really high. All desks are designed for tall men, and it's impossible to get one lower than 30 inches. I've looked into this way too much. But there are all of these things that you don't realize that your life is forced around and hasn't been built around you to Contend with.
• 27:36
  Speaker D: Yeah. I had a similar experience on one of the E bike type things that you have in London. There's a certain brand that is just a little bit higher than is comfortable for me even at the lowest setting. And I was like, I don't feel safe cycling around on this though. I'm not going to use this now. And I just thought, wow, what a failure of design for this company where I would have used them otherwise. But I'm just a little too short and I don't feel comfortable using it. So it's good business to be thinking about all this stuff. And yeah, I loved that campaign. I think it was a really cool one. So yeah, definitely spread the word around to save lives there.
• 28:10
  Speaker B: I think those examples of the desk and the bike speak so much to the diverse input. Like you were saying, amrit of, you know, being able to have somebody at the table. Like, have you thought about this from this side? Right. And as a, a kind of middle aged white guy, like so much of the world is designed for me and expected around that and it's great to have that awareness and be reminded of the need for that awareness, which is always a work in progress. What I'm taking from that is this education and awareness kind of the advocacy side of that and really looking around just to make sure that everybody's voice is being heard and right to your point of pulling them into the conversation and transitioning, sort of that conveyed authority that maybe I experience within that the value of those diverse perspectives. Emily, picking up on your comment about COVID like it's always really interesting to think about the number of positive feedbacks I've gotten for being really explicit about like family time and like personal time that I have on my calendar and then just that kind of need to show up as much as possible within that. So really appreciate all of that perspective. Really helpful.
• 29:15
  Speaker D: I think that last point, I saw that today in a wider chat within our own thesis team. I don't know this person, but a dad commented and said, hey, I'm in a workshop all day so I need some time with my kids. Like I'll be. I won't be able to join this meeting. And I was just like, that's so cool. Also, I just think it's a discredit to parents everywhere. Like lots of parents want to spend time with their kids, both whether you're male, female, whatever. So I think just demonstrating that and to your point, being explicit about it is a really powerful way of being an ally.
• 29:45
  Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, I know we're coming up on time. So maybe a final question to wrap up that we've done some thoughts. What advice would you give to your younger self and would love to hear from each of you as we think about International Women's Day and women's role in sustainability and the journey that you've been on within your careers? Maybe Juliet, would you like to kick us off?
• 30:06
  Speaker E: I would tell her just that if you want to work for a more sustainable world, make your voice heard. Let your perspectives be seen because your approach is essential for finding new solutions. And the most important, don't let yourself be silenced because you can contribute to making the world much, much better place. So make your voice heard, whatever your gender is.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: I love it. Then Emily, Sure.
• 30:39
  Speaker D: I think I would probably say appreciate the ride and don't worry too much about what you're going to be doing next and jumping through all the hoops. So enjoy the process and that you'll go on to do really cool work with really cool people. So I feel really lucky in that way. And I think the other thing would be I was pretty unathletic as a child, felt pretty bad about that. And then in my adult life I've run multiple half marathons and I think that 8 year old Emily would think that was pretty badass. So that would be a message as well.
• 31:10
  Speaker A: Emily is a badass. That's a good message to young Emily and other women out there. I thought this was a really interesting question and it really caused me to pause and reflect on like how the past few decades have been in this industry. And it reminded me back in 2007, I think it was the IPCC report came out, I think it was AR4 and it was really talking about the transition and the mitigation that we'd have to go through. I think it was the first time that they started talking about 2 degrees and started talking about some of the worst effects of climate change and fires and things like that. And I remember talking to my family about it and for a start back then nobody understood what I was doing. Everyone thought I was in this kind of tree hugging space. And when he would talk to people about the increase of fires, rain, all of these different natural catastrophes, it really seemed something remote and it was something hard to connect to. And people always talked about sustainability about like the next generation. I'm doing this for my children and my children's children. And I think what's been fascinating and terrifying, honestly is actually seeing at the speed of some of these things that scientists have warned us about happening. And I feel like the debate has really shifted now. There used to be so much debate back then around whether or not climate change was a thing and the climate change hoax and everything. Now it's become incredibly difficult to deny anywhere that you are, because you are feeling it, you are seeing it, you are witnessing firsthand some of the impact here. So with all of that, I was like, what is the message to myself? And I think it's just to double down on the importance of this work. Just really stay focused, move faster. And I think that's also the advice that I give myself now as we think towards the next 20 years. To come back to the comment that I started with, We've never had to go through a transition in the way that we have in this large, global, complex problem. So, yeah, really staying focused. Keep on. Keep on pushing.
• 33:03
  Speaker B: Wonderful. And then last word to you, Eleanor.
• 33:05
  Speaker C: Thanks. I feel like a big thing for me is including your cultural background, so whatever that might be. Different aspects of your identity, whether that's religion, race, sexuality, whatever it is, can really enhance the work that you do. And don't be afraid to bring those perspectives to whatever the work it is that you do and really tap into your skill sets is another thing. I think I was really skeptical as I started my work in sustainability purely for the fact that I felt that there's a lot of jargon, there's a lot of numbers, a lot of data, and I've come from an English literature degree background, so I felt that communications is my real strength and key point. And I was a bit unsure how that married with sustainability in its traditional sense. But actually it's so key. Storytelling is a massive part of climate action, and it's only when you're able to tell those stories and make the climate crisis that we're in more digestible for people that we can take action. You can't take action on something that you don't understand. Yeah. So really embracing your skill sets and embracing every aspect of your identity and bringing that to work. You do.
• 34:12
  Speaker B: I love it. And just so fascinating to hear, like, throughout all of those, that sense of, like, the importance of your voice, kind of the need for this to. For everybody to bring everything they can to this kind of fight and challenges that we face going forward. And just so grateful for your time and all the insights today. So thank you all so much for sharing and joining us today and thank you all for listening. Hopefully this conversation has left you with lots of inspiration, actions and thoughts as it has me. Be sure to check out our site anthesisgroup.com for all things sustainably. Thanks again and take care.