Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #307 - For Azeroth!: “Tanks for the New Year"

Transcript

#307 - For Azeroth!: “Tanks for the New Year" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
Happy New Year from all of us at Farazzarov.
0:04
We have a couple of episodes that are going to be starting
0:08
off the new year, so you're going to see episodes on off
0:11
days as well as the normal days of Thursday releases.
0:15
So check back and you will see such stuff from a number of
0:19
people from the Warcraft community, as well as the prime
0:23
episode for Lordaron for the Karen tour.
0:28
For. Pandaria for Calendar to the
0:34
burning region for Gilnaeus, but has not died for the Lich King.
0:43
For the. Sindora for the Alliance for the
0:47
Horn for Azeroth. Hello and welcome to another
0:54
bonus episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, Manny,
0:58
AKA the Truvan Manny and I am joined by, of course, the Sultan
1:04
of the season, Sean. Hello.
1:08
Hello Manny, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy
1:13
Valentine's Day, in case we don't see between now and then.
1:16
I, I feel like we'll see each other.
1:18
Funny, this funny story, Valentine's Day is also my mom's
1:22
birthday. So I constantly every every year
1:25
have the like, who do you love more, your own mother or the
1:30
girl that you're seeing? Hopefully.
1:33
That's a conversation to have. Hopefully.
1:36
Well, it's just a lot of conversation.
1:39
The trick is that most of the time Valentine's Day does not
1:43
land on a weekend. So I can spend the actual
1:46
Valentine's Day right with whoever is like more available
1:52
on that day and then time before Valentine's Day right being
1:59
like, hey, I know Valentine's Day is on a Wednesday or
2:01
something. I want to do something with you.
2:03
Let's go have brunch or or dinner or something, whatever.
2:08
Strangely enough, celebrating your mom's birthday and taking
2:11
her out for her birthday and celebrating Valentine's Day with
2:15
your girlfriend, There's a a little bit of overlap there.
2:17
You can do a lot of the same things.
2:19
It's just like figure out the plan.
2:21
It's like, oh Monsieur, you're back again.
2:24
With a much younger woman this time.
2:28
Don't you judge me, Pierre. Oh Monsieur, you are a Mac
2:33
Daddy. No, this is my mom.
2:34
Don't. You judge me?
2:36
That's hilarious. Yes.
2:41
Yes. So yeah, Merry Christmas to you
2:46
as well. Happy New Year.
2:47
It is the first of the year. It is literally the 1st.
2:51
We are recording this on the 1st.
2:54
And so we've got like, between the second we stopped recording
3:00
and Blizzard had taken off for a vacation and they dropped a ton
3:06
of news, more than just the Wow cast covering the deep dive into
3:13
Undermine. And so we've got a lot of stuff
3:16
that sort of came up and yeah, you just want to sit down and we
3:19
want to talk about a little bit. We also wanted to like, have
3:23
some random conversations that sort of came up and we're like,
3:25
we we should record this. First thing that I want to talk
3:29
to you about though, You're saying poor warriors.
3:34
Tell me about this warrior situation.
3:37
So Prot Warriors, if, if you've been listening to the show for a
3:41
while, you may have known that I was quite excited with the state
3:45
of Prot Warrior heading into the War Within and often times
3:50
talked about some of the reasons it was good and how Mountain
3:53
Fane gave us this really nice feedback loop and how we had a
3:56
lot of rage. We could do whatever we wanted
3:58
with it. Basically.
4:01
Fasdev heard that and Fasdev, normally I'm a big supporter.
4:06
Normally you only bring us good things, but Fasdev heard that
4:11
and apparently went back to the boys and girls in the dev Center
4:15
and said hey listen, we might want to take a look at part
4:19
where. No, I know that they're not the
4:22
wildly 90% plus popular meta tank right now, but the prop
4:30
warriors are all really happy with the state it's in.
4:33
We should probably tune it a bit so that they're less.
4:36
We need to get those last few people shifted off prop warrior
4:39
and over to prop Paladin. So the best way for us to do
4:42
that is to not nerf Prop paladin at all.
4:45
The wildly ode of this world #1 meta tank.
4:51
And instead we should take a. I'm obviously being a little
4:53
facetious. Feels.
4:54
Like they did address a little bit of prop.
4:57
Powder nothing. I think they buffed it.
4:59
Prop powder is going going into season 2 still as run a if
5:04
you're if we prop out and folks, they ballot the light will set
5:09
you free. But they made a in that post
5:12
they they so a ton of class tuning is happening across the
5:14
board. Lots of interesting things.
5:16
A lot of classes getting reworked Guardian druid the year
5:18
the bear is rising. Get ready for that.
5:22
They're coming out of hibernation.
5:23
That's going to be big. But one of the things that came
5:26
out and said was hey, we've we've noticed the fraud warriors
5:29
have an abundance of rage right now to the point that they can
5:32
basically free spam ignore pain. That's not really where we want
5:37
them at. We don't want them.
5:38
While that does feel nice for them, we don't want we would
5:42
rather than have to make decisions and choices on where
5:46
to spend that rage, whether it's shield block, revenge or ignore
5:49
pain and not just full dump and do ignore pain and and also
5:54
maintain 100% shield block up time with revenges.
5:58
You know as often as you want. And they did this and I don't, I
6:03
don't disagree that they could dial back rage generation a
6:07
little bit and make us make more decisions because honest,
6:12
honestly, I am, I'm just dumping rage and ignore pain, which is
6:17
giving me shorter shield wall up time, which is nice.
6:21
I get my shield walls in like 40 seconds.
6:23
And it's also making me expect especially tanky.
6:27
And it does feel nice. But there isn't a lot of, you
6:30
know, I don't have to think a whole lot about what I'm going
6:32
to do with my rage. It's oh, is shield block up?
6:34
Oh yeah, I have 20 seconds of shield block.
6:36
OK, I'm good, let's dump, Max dump to ignore pay and then get
6:40
some revenges. There's not a lot of not a lot
6:42
of thinking about. So they came out and said we
6:43
want to dial that back. I don't disagree with that, but
6:48
where my concern lies is that they nerfed the rage generation
6:53
for a few abilities, which is fine, which I think is probably
6:57
what they needed to do. But then they also nerfed or
7:01
completely removed rocks of things that generate rage.
7:05
So it's like a double tuning. Instead of just adjusting the
7:09
rage generation valve bar, they also adjusted rocks of things
7:14
that generate those rage. So now it's it just feels like
7:18
it reads like it's going to be a very heavy-handed approach to
7:23
it. So if you're a part warrior and
7:25
you're listening to this stream, this podcast on the stream when
7:29
the PTR opens up, get on the PTR, run as many keys as you can
7:33
get as much data to Blizzard as you can, But they see it fill
7:37
out good detailed feedback reports with logs if you have
7:43
them with actual stats so that they can see whether or not the
7:47
tuning is too much in the in the in the One Direction.
7:52
And then, fingers crossed, before 11.1 goes live, we see a
7:55
post from Blizzard that says their intention was to make
7:58
front warriors have more meaningful decisions with how to
8:01
spend their rage. Our initial tuning missed the
8:04
mark on that by a little bit and too far in the wrong direction.
8:07
We're dialing it back some. I'd like to see that plug but
8:09
that post before 11.1. But you don't feel like they
8:12
offset it a bit by making each ignore pane just so much
8:15
stronger. No.
8:17
No, that's like a 30% jump that they pushed it.
8:20
Right, like each. Ignore pane is ignoring 30% more
8:24
pain And like, yes, they've pulled back on the rage
8:28
generation. The procs that were there not
8:31
not all of them were deleted. Some of them were like, hey, it
8:34
produces less rage on top. So you're still getting, you're
8:37
still getting some rage. So like, it's not like they
8:40
said, no, you're never getting rage again.
8:42
And they didn't give you ignore pain anything.
8:44
They're like, ignore pain is going to be far more meaningful.
8:47
30% jump on that and we're going to rain in the amount of times
8:52
you can press that. So it feels like you're going
8:56
from spammy, kind of like what people were talking about when
9:01
at the beginning of the expansion or blood death nights
9:04
are like, hey, congratulations, you can no longer death strike
9:08
spam to keep yourself alive forever.
9:10
It's going to track results. So you're not going to be able
9:13
to double dip or triple dip or how many times you can press it
9:16
before that that damaged out the window.
9:18
It feels sort of like that. And there was a similar sort of
9:22
uproar, a SIM sort of like, whoa, Blizzard, what are you
9:25
doing here sort of thing. And you're right in terms that
9:29
Blizzard did need to do some adjustments, but it didn't go
9:32
live as D KS dead on arrival. They did adjust it before it
9:37
went live. The IT was the deaths in circles
9:41
of people who are knowledgeable about how the game functions and
9:46
not just how it feels. That death strike change wasn't
9:50
considered doom and gloom. That was considered a positive,
9:52
a net positive. It was doom and gloom for the
9:55
people who every change, see a change and say, Oh my God,
9:58
you're killing OK. Wasn't the same reaction.
10:00
Yeah, so and I wanted like I just I think of a really nice
10:04
way to say that amongst the smart people that wasn't.
10:07
But I think I think my. Informed opinions The people who
10:12
have informed. Opinions.
10:14
Are saying that this is going to be a harder hit than the
10:17
developers might actually realize.
10:19
Yeah, this is yeah. And I'm looking at it not just
10:22
like for Pro Warrior specific in a in a bubble.
10:24
I'm looking at it the tank tuning that we saw in that post
10:27
across the board. I don't think Brewmaster got any
10:31
Brewmaster is they need they need Jesus at this point.
10:39
But like from that tuning that that came out, Pro Warrior is
10:45
looking to be a big loser from where they are now into where
10:50
they're going to be in season 2. And I I don't it, it might not
10:54
be as bad for experienced sprout warriors, but it's going to be
10:59
very problematic for folks who aren't as experienced.
11:03
And again, like I said when they did the level squish for Mythic
11:05
plus, if you make the game harder for those at the lower
11:09
end and those are the the entry level ends, it just frustrates
11:13
them and makes them not want to play it.
11:14
And then we have to listen to a season of this is too hard.
11:18
I, I definitely agree with that, but like, I feel like that's
11:24
always going to be the case with a certain segment, not the same
11:28
segment. I I do want to say when when we
11:31
have the people who are angry and loud, it's not always the
11:34
same people who are angry and loud.
11:36
They're different segments of the population might be upset or
11:39
happy at any given time. However, I do want to say that
11:44
with the tank meta, I think that paladins definitely need to be
11:51
addressed and they didn't do much to address protection
11:55
paladins in this in this like list of changes that that came
12:00
out. I think there was like maybe one
12:02
or two lines for protection Paladin that was like a specific
12:08
hero talent that was getting adjusted.
12:11
But druids. Druids seemed odd because I
12:18
remember seeing druid's getting some adjustments looking like
12:22
they were getting buffs and I think at high level keys people
12:25
are liking guardians. Am I wrong about that?
12:30
So guardian druid is in high if you're a so squish.
12:34
Vegan is the best guardian druid on the planet.
12:37
His team is still like cutting edge keys.
12:39
They're at the top of the key pushing.
12:42
We just had our world 1st 20 times a couple days ago.
12:45
It wasn't by them. It was obviously by prop
12:47
paladin, but it was the guardian Druid is doing.
12:51
If you're experienced on guardian druid, Guardian Druid
12:54
feels OK right now. It doesn't have as some of the
12:58
other things that prop paladin has, and it doesn't have some
13:02
things prop warrior has, but it isn't.
13:04
It's not in a terrible spot, but it is getting buffed going into
13:07
11.1. And not only that, the druid
13:11
base tree, the druid class tree is getting reworked finally so
13:16
that you're not forced down lanes of talents that you will
13:20
never use as feral, resto, boomkin, or Druid.
13:24
Our guardian. It is the one true Druid
13:27
guardian. It is.
13:28
It is like a very nicely aligned tree.
13:31
It addresses like 95% of the issues people have had since the
13:34
talent trees came out. And typically anytime we've had
13:38
a class that gets a tree rework and a lot of changes, they come
13:43
out pretty strong. Guardian.
13:47
If you're a guardian druid enthusiast, you're going to have
13:50
a good time in 11.1. A good time.
13:54
I am I I enjoy guardian druid. I played on EU, it's when I play
13:58
there I'll probably get my NA1UP and running for for season 2.
14:02
It's going to be in a good spot. Do you have the fell beer on NA?
14:05
I don't have the fell bear on an A Manny.
14:07
Why would you bring that up? I'm.
14:09
Sorry, I remember you love in the Fell fell bear on your EU
14:13
account, like you just streamed earlier today and then like
14:16
there was some joy going on. I was like a.
14:18
Lot of joy. I was like oh I hope he has it
14:20
on an A cuz he's not gonna have that joy, sorry.
14:23
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try and get it.
14:25
There is if you haven't done the Mage Tower yet, there's a series
14:31
of there's three pieces of craft and equipment you can buy that
14:34
make your mage tower experience significantly easier.
14:38
So if you haven't done mage tower and this works for all
14:41
classes, all specs, all mage towers.
14:44
So even if you don't have the mage tower mount yet for beating
14:47
all of the challenges, you can do this.
14:50
You hear Shadow flipping her dog bowl behind me.
14:53
I heard that, yeah. You can do this and have a much
14:59
easier time in the mage tower. What you want to do is get the
15:02
dark moon deck radiance the and then get a craft a weapon with
15:09
the dark moon sigil. I think it's it's radiance and
15:13
then the writhing banding on chest or pants.
15:17
If you're a intellect user, put it on your chest.
15:21
If you're an agility or strength user, put it on your pants.
15:24
What this does is it any time Radiance adds stacks to a
15:28
creature, every time you do damage to it, at a certain
15:30
amount of stacks, it procs and does a bunch of damage.
15:32
And the writhing banding double S that double S that damage,
15:37
that combination makes you very, very strong.
15:41
It does scale, but it doesn't scale as low as you might expect
15:45
that it would, and it will be very helpful.
15:49
And then on top of that grab that Searcy circlet because it
15:52
also scales but it procs and gives you huge amounts of stats.
15:55
Run your fathom dwellers, your legendary skipper and your the
16:01
all stats one. I can't what it's called.
16:03
Anyway run those three. You're probably in for a good
16:05
time. Almost like a get fellberry this
16:07
week. You might want to get this
16:09
before fast them decides they hate us again.
16:13
It's funny because like the maze tower feels like the new time
16:16
walking these like get these specific items and how they
16:19
scale sort of thing. You know what, like maybe
16:22
they'll they'll like let people have their fun in that instead
16:25
of in time walking where they've shut that down.
16:27
But that that we talked about last time.
16:31
You know, I'm in a similar boat to you and you're well,
16:34
actually, maybe I'm closer to the druid enhancement is getting
16:37
a little bit of a rework. Friend.
16:40
Have you have you heard or seen about this?
16:43
I saw it when the when the notes went out I got a message from Oh
16:47
no that was elemental that was getting reworked.
16:48
I have not heard anything on the enhancement rework.
16:51
It's funny we're getting a rework to Primordial Wave
16:56
because they decided that Primordial Wave was too
16:58
complicated for people to loot to use.
17:02
It wasn't. I don't, I don't.
17:05
You know what? Different people play with
17:07
different levels of fidgety nonsense that they're willing to
17:11
put up with. Maybe my level of tolerance is a
17:13
bit higher. I thought I felt it was fine.
17:16
It was great to like line up a big combo.
17:19
They decided it was too much. They also decided that we
17:24
weren't doing enough melee damage, so Primordial Wave,
17:28
instead of lining up and increasing your next hit,
17:34
instead just as big damage on its own.
17:36
So we just got shorter, more concentrated burst and then they
17:41
decided that hey, our melee weapon attacks weren't doing
17:46
enough damage compared to our our cast there, so they buffed
17:52
the melee damage. Storm Strike, Ice Strike,
17:57
Lavalash increased by 100% double damage.
18:03
This does not apply to PvP. You know what's missing from
18:06
that? Any conversation about reducing
18:10
the spells in to compensate. We're just whaling twice as hard
18:15
on our builders. Oh my goodness.
18:19
Oh it it gets it gets better, it gets better, right?
18:25
They decided that the molten Assault, which is a proc that
18:33
that causes us to get like a special version of our flame
18:36
shock that does way more damage and it's really good, was too
18:40
random. So sometimes it would go off and
18:43
you'd be like, oh great, R&G is smiled upon me and sometimes it
18:47
wouldn't. What they've done is that
18:49
they've made it a set proc that becomes less effective each
18:57
time. So like you get like a bonus, a
19:01
chance to proc it for each target that you hit with with
19:07
our sundering and then that bonus proc chance gets cut in
19:11
half, but it's still there. So you're just going to front
19:14
load it into even more burst. My friend, we are looking at I
19:21
like depending on how this comes in because obviously everything
19:24
subject to PTR. We are looking at an
19:27
enhancement, Sherman walking into a pack saying thank
19:32
goodness that the tanks do way more threat and then just
19:35
deleting some things. Real fast.
19:39
That's crazy. There's no way that goes live,
19:42
right? There's there's, there's other
19:45
adjustments they're doing like enhancement currently has a bug
19:48
where if you do not talent into Lavalash, it's actually stronger
19:55
than if you put any points into it.
19:56
And they're going to fix that. There was a rank 0 which
20:01
increased the damage by 50% because you had no points into
20:04
it, which is so much better than rank two points in to get 25% so
20:09
much better. So there is some fixes coming,
20:14
but like enhancement, it's going to be it's going to be a
20:17
completely different ball game. They've they've also looked at
20:20
Totemic itself and they're doing those adjustments itself.
20:23
I really suggest that shamans enhancement shamans.
20:28
Resto shamans, elemental shamans jump into the PTR because
20:32
there's some big changes coming for all the specs.
20:34
I know I'm going to be trusting enhancement, especially totemic,
20:38
because if they can get totemic to have a little bit more
20:42
consistency, it it's already really good single target.
20:47
It's just so inconsistent in in AOE that you don't want to bring
20:51
into a mythic. Plus, if they can get that
20:52
consistency going, I, I, I think they've brought Totemic back
20:57
from the grave in the space of one major patch, and that is so
21:01
good. That is good.
21:03
I'm happy for Shamans, I'm so sad for proud Warriors, happy
21:07
for Guardians, and I'm also happy for Hunters.
21:09
Manny, I want to talk with this change.
21:11
This is a change that maybe doesn't really matter to a lot
21:13
of people, but it's part of the user interface and accessibility
21:17
going into the patch and it is that hunters will be able to
21:21
change there. Let me get the actual wording
21:25
for this. There is it hunters will be able
21:28
to change. I lost it.
21:30
I just had it in front of me. There is specializations for
21:33
hunter pets can now be changed in the stable via drop down
21:37
menu. I I enjoy a beastmaster hunter
21:42
from time to time but I like using those little fire dogs,
21:45
the ones that live in like shadow forge city that like that
21:47
style the different colors I think.
21:49
They're not tenacity or anything.
21:50
They're not. They are, they are cunning.
21:54
They're not. Whatever one it is that has, I
21:56
think they're not the one that has lust, basically.
22:01
And if you're bringing a beastmaster on, or sometimes you
22:02
want them to have lust, and it might be cunning has lust in
22:07
there, for no ferocity has lust cunning, I think.
22:10
Exotic was the only one with lust.
22:11
No, no, that might be old. I'm.
22:14
Pretty. Sure, it's ferocity that has
22:16
lust, cause the core hounds have it anyway.
22:20
You're going to be able to change what your pet is.
22:22
Do you just make 1A less pet? You're less pet now both there
22:25
and be somebody. It's it's great.
22:28
It's a great change. So now you can actually match
22:30
your pets to your trans mog or to your characters, your you
22:33
know, your characters back story or what have you, and you can
22:36
still have your lust available when you need it.
22:39
I know that's like not a like a theme.
22:42
No, no, no. I think that's really what Yeah,
22:44
that is more cosmetic thing than anything else.
22:47
But that's still cool because like, I've seen some cool Hunter
22:50
transmog recently epidemi in the Discord doing his entire like
22:55
Beastmaster Hunter with two reindeers with the with the Red
22:58
Nose that he haunted down, which is just awesome that like you
23:02
can now actually raid properly with that.
23:04
And it's not just the memes, memes set up.
23:06
So like, yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.
23:09
Yeah. One thing that I got to ask you
23:13
about with the stuff coming up, are you excited about Mythic
23:21
Plus in season 2? Are you sorry, apprehensive?
23:27
Because like I, I've made it no secret that I'm not a fan of of
23:33
the TOP coming back because so many bosses.
23:38
I just wanted something nice, short, sweet and good.
23:40
I also don't like that we're already back in Shadow Lands I'd
23:43
like to forget about as long as possible, and we already had
23:46
missed this season and Necrotic Wake this season.
23:50
Let's go somewhere else. But dungeon pool wise, are you
23:56
happy? I yeah, I am.
23:59
I'm hard. I love Mythic plus Manny I It's
24:02
my favorite game mode. I think I just, I love it.
24:08
It's you get 5 people together, you go in, you take 30 minutes,
24:11
you accomplish a goal, you're filling your vault, you're
24:13
checking a box off. It just feels nice.
24:15
There's room for personal expression.
24:18
You could do it with every class.
24:19
It's I love it. I I really do.
24:23
And this dungeon pool coming up I'm excited about.
24:25
It's all right. So I'm with you.
24:27
Don't get me wrong. I'm with you.
24:28
Theater of pain can die in a fire like a like a like a couch
24:31
fire. Like you want to come home from
24:33
a bar one night and theater of pain fell asleep on the sofa
24:36
with a cigarette in its mouth, and it's now just a smoldering
24:39
mass of flesh and five bosses. I hate that dungeon.
24:43
We might have happy New year. I don't know if that's too
24:44
graphic. There is no editing in this
24:48
episode. We're we're sitting it out raw.
24:51
I am not a fan of Theater of Pain.
24:52
I had a really bad experience in the Shadow Lands beta in Theater
24:55
of Pain. I never fully mentally recovered
24:58
from it. I am not looking forward to
24:59
going back. That being said, Mother Lode one
25:06
of my top five all time dungeons.
25:07
Like all time dungeons, I love Mother Lode.
25:10
Background Workshop is a banger. It's a fun dungeon.
25:14
It's a fast dungeon and we know it well.
25:17
For some reason I was thinking it was the above ground 1 and I
25:21
hate that. Form of junk yeah junk yard, no
25:24
treasure. So junkyard's fun for the for
25:26
the the the buffs you get the weapon buffs, the bots, but
25:30
workshop is just I think it's a great dungeon The and I mean
25:33
you're going to have people complain about the second boss
25:35
with all of the spinnies. Sorry, the third boss with all
25:38
of the spinnies and the flowers, Yeah.
25:41
I love that boss. Sorry, keep.
25:42
On yeah, but it's going to be great.
25:45
I'm looking forward to it. I from war within I I really
25:49
enjoyed the Rookery on the beta and when we had it for that week
25:53
and the heroic week. I think Rookery has potential to
25:56
be an all time dungeon. 3 bosses, it's lightning fast.
26:02
Again, all this is tuning dependent, but I'm looking
26:04
forward to that. And then Priory of Sacred Flame
26:09
is another one. I think Private Sacred Flame is
26:11
going to break records for fastest dungeon completion in
26:14
MDI next season. I think it's going to be that
26:17
good and the only one I'm worried.
26:20
So even dark flame cleft. I like dark dark flame cleft
26:24
thematically and I like the dungeon and I there are some
26:27
really unique bosses in it that have really fun mechanics.
26:30
The candle boss is a great boss. The the the Knoll boss with the
26:38
wax statues is a great boss. An independent.
26:44
That minecart section is going to cause a lot of consternation
26:48
for people. Yeah, that needs to be fixed.
26:50
And the last? Pause for a second here.
26:52
I got to pause for a second here 'cause I think even if I was
26:57
frustrated by the 1st 2 bosses you mentioned, I would still see
27:03
the whimsy or the fun in it and enjoy it.
27:08
That minecart where it's going to be somebody doesn't get the
27:15
fire or I'm running around and now it's gone off it.
27:22
Like it just seems like the ultimate moment to A allow
27:26
people to troll and B feed on everybody's worst impulses to
27:31
blame each other. Yeah, yeah, that minecart
27:34
section is going to be rough. It will be.
27:36
If you look at the minecart section, it's broken up into
27:39
almost 2 identical sections. Even if they cut one out for
27:43
Mythic Plus, and I know they don't like, they will remove
27:47
role play for Mythic Plus dungeons.
27:50
They've done that in the past. They did it with Dawn of the
27:52
Infinites. I don't know that was called.
27:54
Dawn of the Infinite is. That what it's called, Yeah,
27:57
Yeah, you're right. But I like I legit think they
28:03
need to remove that entire minecart segment.
28:05
And I think people are really going to have a hard time with
28:08
it. And I don't think there's any
28:09
world where they remove that Dark Flame Cleft is going to be
28:12
one of those dungeons where you do it once to get your your
28:15
portal and you probably never go.
28:18
There any items in there that people were going to like
28:23
salivate over 'cause that's that's the.
28:25
Problem. That'll be the only problem,
28:28
Yeah. I don't know.
28:29
I haven't looked at what trinkets are coming out and what
28:31
weapons and stuff. That would be the only issue.
28:34
If there was people had to farm it, that would feel terrible.
28:38
I think most people are going to be farming Theodore Pain for the
28:42
the soul jam that drops in there.
28:43
All the. I mean, if you're a caster
28:44
anyway, you'll probably want that.
28:46
Sorry for your luck. Yeah, Dark Flame Cleft is the
28:51
only one I'm worried about. I I and I hate theater pain, so
28:53
I. Just don't like the last boss in
28:55
in dark flame craft. Sorry, I know we gave crap about
28:57
the light cart. I don't like the last boss.
28:59
Either the last boss, yeah, if you don't do that candle
29:02
mechanic correctly and it's it's like 2 parts.
29:05
So it's like you get it, there's a candle you have to keep lit.
29:08
You get smaller candles to keep that candle lit.
29:11
The boss puts a fear circle on you that if it expires while
29:14
your party is in it, they get feared.
29:17
So the proper way to do it is when that fear circle goes out,
29:20
whoever has the fear circle goes and gets a candle so that the
29:24
fear circle expires away from the group.
29:26
They bring the candle back to like the main candle, and then
29:30
when the boss goes to do his frontal, the tank or the healer
29:34
picks the candle up and moves it out of the front door so that
29:37
the boss doesn't blow the candle out.
29:41
If you coordinate that dance, every fear circle happens at a
29:44
boat the right time that you need to refill your candle.
29:47
If you coordinate that dance, you're fine.
29:52
People aren't going to coordinate that dance.
29:54
They're going to say the it's the healer's job to get the
29:56
small candles. They're going to say it's the
29:58
healer's job to do the big, and none of that is true.
30:02
I honestly think it should be the tank because like the tank
30:05
is like it's not like the the picking up the candle.
30:10
Yeah, I think the tank should move the big candle and the DPS
30:14
need to go and get the small candles when they have the fear
30:17
circles. Yeah, but you're going to have
30:18
to move out anyways. Go do the job while you're like.
30:21
That's why it lines up so well. I feel like going out for the
30:24
candle shouldn't be that bad, except for somebody who just
30:27
doesn't know the dungeon, and that's going to be like the
30:30
absolute worst. But like, if you got through the
30:32
minecart, Yeah, at that point, I feel like hopefully the DPS
30:38
should have it together. I don't know this is this is
30:41
going to be something strong. I'm worried about that dungeon.
30:43
I'm worried about I I'm not looking forward to theater pan.
30:45
I don't like it. And they just made some tuning
30:47
changes to it to make the tank Busters worse.
30:50
Oh no, two weeks ago they made a bunch of changes to make all the
30:53
tank Busters easier and then going into this patch, they've
30:56
made all the tank Busters harder.
30:57
It's like there's some cognitive dissonance there.
30:59
It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand the.
31:01
We'll have to wait until the actual.
31:03
You're going to have to rely on ignore pain.
31:04
You're we'll be fine. But yeah, it's another situation
31:14
where it's not going to affect experienced tanks because
31:16
they're already tracking this stuff.
31:17
They're already going to be. It's going to affect new tanks,
31:19
which is then going to make them not want to think.
31:22
But that's OK, There's an abundance of tanks now anyway in
31:25
the queue. We need less.
31:27
That's what I heard, right? That's what I read online.
31:29
I I haven't read anything I'd like, I'm going to be honest,
31:34
like the stuff that we're talking about.
31:36
I like right when it came out, I was like, Oh my goodness.
31:39
And I messaged you. I was like, do you want to
31:41
rerecord that, that episode? And I've been on vacation.
31:47
There were bonus episodes that were supposed to come out last
31:49
week. I didn't even post it.
31:51
I'm sorry, guys. I'm going to post the like
31:54
episodes a couple of episodes in a row.
31:57
You guys are going to be getting like Bang Bang, bang episodes,
32:00
but they're all like relevant information.
32:02
So it's it's all good, but I've I've been enjoying my vacation
32:06
guys. So I haven't heard all the
32:07
latest Twitter X drama about whatever people.
32:10
Can play. I forced him back to work today.
32:12
I was like, Manny, it's returned to work.
32:14
Time the Canada Post on the government.
32:16
Get in here. I've been legislated, but yeah,
32:21
no, I like. I'm excited for Mythic Plus
32:23
though. Season 2.
32:24
I'm always excited for Mythic Plus.
32:25
I can't wait to get into a new season.
32:27
Can't wait to go get all the portals I'm missing.
32:32
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. All right, so then the other
32:37
part to this, of course, is you were having your stream join
32:43
your life and we were talking about, hey, we've got this
32:48
Legion, speculated Legion time walking, time running, whatever
32:54
they want to call. It wait before we talk about
32:55
this, we didn't even. I totally called gilded crests
32:58
and delves. I'm pretty sure I said that on
33:01
one of the shows and then I announced it.
33:03
Bazdev come through with a big dump.
33:06
He's got to give you the win along with the LS that's.
33:09
Right, that's right. He's like, we're going to nerve
33:10
worries into the ground. We better give Gil to custody of
33:12
these doubts or Sean can at least say he told us.
33:15
He's never going to get invited to another dungeon, so let's
33:17
give him something to go to. Tell him some bells to do, yeah.
33:20
Appreciate your Fazdev. Much love, much love, much love.
33:25
What do you think about that limitation?
33:27
Because it's a hard limit on how much you can get out of it in a
33:30
week, right? Like you can get X amount in a
33:32
week and then it's. Like 18?
33:34
Yeah you can get 18 gilded crests from the tier 11 delves
33:39
or the bountiful 8 delves or bounty 8 delves.
33:44
Something I thought. It was 11 that that it was.
33:48
I thought it said something about bounty 8 or like it
33:51
wouldn't say bountiful 8. It said something else like
33:53
delvers bounty 8 or something anyway.
33:57
So it might be tier 11 normals or bountiful I'm not sure anyway
34:00
it it it was 2 right with 18 a week total yeah, as long as that
34:06
counts towards the seasonal weekly cap, which is like 90 I
34:13
think so as long as that counts towards my 90.
34:16
I think it's kind of a bummer for delve only players.
34:20
Let us just I think they should just take it, take the Band-Aid
34:23
right off. Like let them.
34:25
If somebody wants to fully cap their mythic crests, sorry,
34:28
they're gilded crests in delves, let them.
34:31
I don't think you're artificially limiting delve
34:34
players while while not holding back Raiders or mythic plusers
34:39
because. We're limited by bosses.
34:41
All of them have limits, and all of them are artificial.
34:45
Well, the late 90, right? The limit's 90 a week.
34:48
That's what the cap should be. You shouldn't.
34:50
I don't think you should have a secondary cap for gilded.
34:53
If you go through if you were doing raids alone.
34:56
Yeah. Right.
34:57
Your cap is 90 or however many bosses you can defeat, whichever
35:01
comes first, right? Right.
35:03
Typically, Raiders are supplementing that cap as
35:06
they're progressing with Mythic Plus, right?
35:09
But the mythic plus cap is 90. Mythic plus cap is yeah 90 or or
35:14
however many dungeons you complete.
35:16
Whichever 1 you hit first. Which if you're not completing
35:19
90, what are you doing? What are you doing?
35:22
You just you, you went into a six.
35:24
The guy was like don't learn in my 6.
35:26
And then you never went any further.
35:28
So your cap was effectively zero.
35:30
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
35:32
So yeah, I guess raids cap is however many bosses you can
35:37
kill, or 90. Mythic plus is just how many
35:40
dungeons can you finish until 90?
35:42
There's no like cap Mythic plus and delves is 18.
35:46
I wonder. How many do you get it?
35:48
I think it's like 2A delve or something.
35:50
It's 2A delve you get now, so if you have to do 9 delves to get
35:56
18 crests. That seems like a grind.
35:59
I'm hoping it's actually more per Delve.
36:02
Yeah, I hope it's more per delve.
36:03
I'd like to see that cap of 18 removed.
36:06
I don't think you should. I don't want to.
36:08
Again, I'm not an only delve or I'm looking forward to Mythic
36:10
Plus. I'm going to get my Crest a
36:11
Mythic Plus because it's faster for me anyway.
36:18
I don't think we need to. I don't think we need to
36:20
artificially cap that. It feels like, OK delvers, you
36:23
want gilded crests too? Here you go.
36:24
You can have 18. That's how it feels, and that
36:27
feels bad. I I do think that some like some
36:31
restriction should be there. I don't OK, I wonder if they
36:39
should be here. Yeah, like that's the thing.
36:42
I think the rate is unnecessary punishing with the with the 18
36:46
cap. If it was like, hey, you
36:48
completed an 18 or sorry, rather you completed an 11.
36:52
Here's your 18, right. I would be like, OK, sure, fine.
36:56
Do like 18 guaranteed to do 1 delve.
36:59
That's easy. That's fine.
37:00
Yeah, I'm OK with that. Yeah.
37:01
If they said here's you can get 45 half your cap out of delves
37:06
and you get let's say 10A run, I'd be like, OK, if I complete
37:15
with the changes that they've made to how many you get in in
37:19
mythic plus, I'd be like, OK, sure, right, Like I don't want
37:24
to push a 20. Eight boss raid.
37:28
Eight boss raid, you get 15, you get 15 A.
37:33
And then you get 2 from the so it's 10.
37:36
So you could, you could get 150 in the raid.
37:40
You get you'll get 30 tonight in the last two bosses of heroic.
37:43
Yeah, you're capped at 90, so. Well do we get the 30 is 15 of 1
37:48
and 15 from another? Sorry.
37:50
The 30 is. 15 from the last two bosses of of of heroic.
37:55
You get 15 from the second last boss, 15 from the last boss.
37:58
Yeah. So 60 / 15 is what this is mad.
38:05
It's basic four man as long as you can kill 4 bosses in mythic.
38:09
And then go back. To the cap.
38:11
Yeah, you can fully cap. I don't know, man.
38:14
I they the cap of 18 feels bad. It feels especially weird if
38:19
it's 22 crests per. We don't know how.
38:21
We don't know if we're going to stay at two crests per.
38:24
We'll have to wait and see. I think they should just remove
38:28
the cap. Let us frame it like Mythic
38:29
Plus, especially if you're going to leave it at 2:00, remove
38:33
that. If somebody's that hard up for
38:35
Gildan Crest that they want to farm own 180, No, that wouldn't
38:41
be 180. Forty, 545 plus elevens, let
38:45
them. That's in.
38:47
Dude what? What's your math?
38:49
45 * 2 is 19. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, sorry.
38:52
Rather I was like Oh no, no 18 you have to divide it.
38:55
So they're doing 9 delves in order to get the.
38:58
I'm saying if they wanted the full cap, if they wanted to get
39:01
their 90 crests then then let them.
39:04
Let them do it with, let them run their 451145.
39:07
That's. Brutal.
39:08
Even removing the cap to A to a pop is too weird.
39:12
Yeah, I. Isn't that what?
39:14
Do you want, let's say, let's say they allow the full 90?
39:17
I'm not going to have that argument right now.
39:18
What would you say the drop rate should be?
39:21
12 as much as an untimed mythic plus.
39:25
Well, the 12. Isn't it's time 10?
39:27
Sorry, sorry. Because like now with the mythic
39:31
plus changes, right? Yeah, an untimed 10 gives you
39:34
12. What's an untimed?
39:38
Is that the best result you can get 12 from the untimed 10?
39:42
Well, you of the untimed ones, yes.
39:45
Of the untimed ones, yes, yeah, OK.
39:47
And it's like that would mean, Oh, no.
39:48
No, no, sorry. It goes up to 12.
39:49
You can get 16 for an untimed 12.
39:52
There you go. That's what I thought.
39:53
Yeah, Yeah. OK.
39:55
So. But I think a 12 is
39:57
significantly, I think a 10 is what probably on par with where
39:59
an 11 delves should be. I think it's a 12 is a bit
40:04
higher, although twelves will be easier next season.
40:07
So you're running 8 delves to get your weekly cap?
40:12
Yeah. So yeah.
40:14
Which if you run 8 keys, I mean that number makes sense to me.
40:18
If I time I I, I want a world where I can run 8 keys that
40:22
fills my vault and also fills my Crest gap.
40:25
So in that same world, running 8 delves should fill my vault and
40:31
fill my Crest. Gap.
40:32
I would be fine with that if delves were a lot more
40:36
equivalent to mythic plus, and I don't think any.
40:39
I've been doing those elevens and it's taken US 20 minutes or
40:42
two of us to go through these elevens, which is faster than I,
40:47
I do. Yeah, but you?
40:48
One don't don't have much experience with them and.
40:53
But the people I'm with, do. They love doves.
40:55
They've lived in them, They just DPS.
40:58
And Blizzard hates DPS for legal reasons.
41:01
For legal reasons, Blizzard does not actually hate DPS, and for
41:05
Azeroth does not hold the belief that Blizzard hates any role.
41:11
Unless you get nerfed then. Blizzard warrior who's getting
41:15
nerf? OK, this is.
41:18
What we get for all the bragging you did, Manny.
41:22
I thought you had definitely said no, don't say it on
41:25
Farazzroff. And so I stopped saying on
41:27
Farazzroff. Yeah, so yeah, I think 12:00
41:30
because 90 / 8 is 11.25. If I have to do 8 dungeons or I
41:37
have to do 8 delves to fill my vault, I think it should also
41:41
fill my Crest cap for the week. So I'm going to say it should
41:43
give 12 or I actually am OK with.
41:47
Why were we unhappy with keys only giving 12?
41:54
I have so many questions. Wasn't no, no, no, no.
41:57
I thought it got cut. Oh, because people were.
41:59
SAD used to be higher. The cap was higher than 90.
42:01
Yeah right and the other the other thing was that people
42:04
would oh, I failed a delve and now I can't even get an upgrade
42:09
Blizzard Y like people like I think that when you fail a
42:13
mythic plus where I don't know if you fail a delve ever, but
42:16
anyways, if you fail a mythic plus.
42:18
Or the lives, I guess. You still get something out of
42:22
the end of it. Yeah, the real reward is the joy
42:25
of completing it. Yeah, the real, the real anyway,
42:28
you fail a mythic plus right, you get only 12.
42:31
You can't do an upgrade. You feel like the Blizzard.
42:35
I didn't get to even get an upgrade out of this.
42:42
The other people got the the gear out of this, so I got
42:45
nothing out of this. Why shouldn't I quit?
42:47
And I think that was how people framed why you should.
42:50
'Cause you used to get fives. Yeah, I used to it went from
42:53
being I get 12 for timed, I only get 5 for untimed.
42:56
That that gap was heat was terrible.
42:59
The new, the new Crest system, which is the way it's going, is
43:01
going to be going into season 2 where you get 6 and I'm just
43:04
talking in 10s. That's where, let's be honest,
43:07
there's different. Breakdowns as it goes through,
43:09
like if you're getting like gilded then yes, 10s if you're
43:14
getting lesser ones and there are there are break points where
43:17
you are getting 12 of of that correct Crest.
43:20
And you start getting gilded at eights.
43:22
Don't The Blizzard doesn't change that.
43:23
I'm just using 10s because it's ease that I feel my vault with.
43:26
So that's why. So if I time at 10, I get 16.
43:30
If I fail at 10, I get 12. That still feels pretty good,
43:33
right? And if I do. 8 twelves.
43:35
Yeah, If I do 8:00, I could. If I, no thanks.
43:37
If I do 8 pens, I got to plug some of these.
43:40
If I do eight 10s and I failed them all, I still feel my vault
43:44
Crest cap and I feel my vault and I feel my Crest cap for the
43:47
week. I'm fine with that.
43:49
I think Delve should be the same way I think.
43:51
And then I have a follow up question for you.
43:53
I think Delve 11 + 11 delve, I don't know what they're called.
43:57
Tier 11 delve should drop 12 crests and there should be no
44:03
delve specific cap. It should drop 12 gilded crests
44:06
that count towards my weekly Crest cap for gilded crests
44:11
because that would be so. That's the nightmare if the
44:13
Delve crests are their own separate.
44:15
Cap outside that is worse than anything else we've recorded.
44:19
Yeah, hopefully that doesn't happen.
44:21
There's no way that's happening. So that I think that's how it
44:24
should be. And my follow up to this, Manny,
44:27
is we, we the community, the royal, we asked to the devs to
44:34
incentivize delves more. Give hey, give us these skills
44:37
of crests for delves. And they did.
44:39
And now we're like give us more Gov that remove the cap.
44:42
Are we doing that thing where they give us an inch and we take
44:44
a mile? Is that what's happening?
44:46
Or is it just like we're looking at it and saying this feels like
44:49
a weird cap for no reason? I don't think anybody who was
44:53
asking them to put in crests at the highest level was expecting
44:59
them to have this 18 cap. And so I think it is expected or
45:05
shouldn't have been expected that people would look at this
45:07
cap and be like, what the hell, Blizzard, right.
45:11
That said, I think that delves provide a lot of gear and I
45:20
think that at the top of the heroic gear that where you want
45:24
to get the five out of six and and six out of 6 for that heroic
45:31
level gear. That's what these crests are
45:34
for, not you're getting mythic gear and supplementing gear that
45:37
you would get from other places. And so in my mind, this is end
45:44
of this end game progression. How you cap that that gear at
45:50
the end and therefore the 18 doesn't seem as bad right?
45:58
If I had to like be like, OK, why is it 18?
46:00
What is what are these crests aimed for?
46:02
It's not for you to get a bunch of myth track gear and start
46:05
gearing gearing up through myth track and upgrading with delves.
46:09
No, because you don't get myth track gear from delves.
46:12
It's really just OK, now that I've done this, Oh, I can keep
46:16
doing delves and get my gear up to upgrade it one, one time.
46:22
And now my piece that I got out of the vault is five out of six
46:27
heroic track. And the next week, hey, it's six
46:30
out of six. And this is my long term
46:32
progression for Dells. And that's where I think this
46:34
this is targeted for not to be compared to.
46:37
Oh, I could get so much more from these other things because
46:40
if you're getting that then like now you're comparing, Oh, I
46:43
could be getting mythic track gear from this.
46:45
And so without moving the argument to that, I think that's
46:49
what this is for. And so I'm, I'm not, I'm not
46:52
totally against it. I think it's fine.
46:54
Push your push to 11, get your 18, get your 18 stuff, upgrade
46:59
your gear to six out of six. And then at the end of the
47:02
thing, you've got 6 out of 6, all your gears in myth track
47:05
from delves and you're like, hey, or not myth track mythic
47:08
level from delves and you're like, Hey, this is what I did in
47:11
my end game progression. And and that's where I'm like, I
47:14
don't fight this at all. I think it's appropriate for
47:16
where they're aiming it. You just completely changed my
47:19
point of view on this whole thing.
47:21
I was thinking of it as another Ave. for gearing up for people
47:27
that were mythic Raiders, the same way we use Mythic Plus.
47:30
And as soon as you said you don't get mythic track gear from
47:33
Delves anyway, these crests are just to upgrade your hero track.
47:37
And that clicked it for me. It was like, yeah, OK, I get it.
47:40
This is so that the Dell people can be full in terms of this,
47:43
the season's full 626 bull hero track.
47:46
They're not sitting there with four of six.
47:48
Bang. How I can never get these last
47:50
two things. OK.
47:51
Yeah. All right.
47:51
You know what? You keep your cap lizard.
47:54
You keep your secrets, wizard. You all right?
47:58
Yeah. OK.
48:00
I'd still like to see it opened up so that people have that
48:02
option to use delves as their their Crest farm, but I get it.
48:08
I think I get it now. And you know what?
48:09
We don't know for sure. We don't work for Blizzards.
48:11
We don't know if that's why they did that, but that does seem
48:14
like a logical breakdown of why there would be a cap there.
48:17
Yeah, now I guarantee you that if it was uncapped, you would
48:22
see mythic mythic teams just just being like, yeah, let's
48:27
just go in there because there's no fail state and we can push
48:29
through this with like a bunch of mythic Raiders.
48:31
And used to see teams of five just go Wham, Wham, Wham against
48:35
the wall just to get like their cap for for stuff once they had
48:39
reached a point where, yeah, I don't get any gear out of Mythic
48:42
Plus. So why am I going to do the fail
48:44
state stuff there when I can just run through this?
48:47
Yeah. OK.
48:48
That's yeah, that makes sense. All right, I'll take it.
48:53
I'll take it. All right.
48:55
Sorry, Legion. Legion that we can have that
48:58
final conversation. Let's let's go into it.
49:00
So Legion time walking, which is not confirmed, but all but
49:06
confirmed as far as I'm concerned this time running
49:08
thing coming hopefully at the end of the year.
49:12
There was a conversation about the mage tower coming back and
49:15
along with the mage tower having the original mage tower artifact
49:21
weapon trans mogs. Hey, do you want this to come
49:26
in? Do you think that this is going
49:28
to come in with the time running?
49:30
And what was the 3rd question? Do you have the skins already?
49:35
And do you have the skins already?
49:36
Yeah. So do you want it?
49:37
Do you think it's happening? Do you already have them?
49:41
And I think everybody who's listening should remember those
49:44
three questions by Sean because the third one, even though seems
49:48
very academic, actually does inform like where you're coming
49:52
from. So for me, do I think that they
49:57
would do it? I think that that they would do
50:03
it. When I was initially asked the
50:04
question, we had a further conversation.
50:06
We'll go through that. Do I think that they should do
50:09
it? No, I didn't think that they
50:10
should do it. And then do I have them?
50:13
I have some of them remember I am enhancement player.
50:18
I I play that I went and I did it for enhancement Forresto for
50:25
elemental. I went and did it on the on the
50:27
other specs. Now the question is when did I
50:30
do them? Because hey, as the as the
50:34
expansion went on, it got easier as you got more gear then they
50:38
started overloading weapons and doing it when you had the
50:40
overloaded weapons made it a lot easier.
50:43
And the answer is I did it throughout the expansion.
50:47
I did the initial enhancement 1 before the opening of Tomb of
50:53
Sargaris which meant that I was under geared for where it was
50:58
and then I did the elemental one in the process of no I think the
51:10
tear afterwards. So not Tomb of Sargaris but and
51:14
Taurus and I'm not sure if I did the rest of one before it
51:19
started overloading, but it wasn't full overload when I did
51:22
it. I think I did the rest of one in
51:24
in Taurus. I'd have to go check my my dates
51:27
for like when you unlocked it. So I did it during the
51:31
expansion. I did it did most of it when I
51:34
when it was over geared for that.
51:39
And my reason that I don't think that they should do it is that
51:42
I'd rather them just bring something new.
51:44
When they brought back the the the mage tower I felt that the
51:51
Wear bear was a great addition. Than it is then.
51:55
Yeah, and I want them to do more, like more of that.
51:58
I want like, hey, put in a fell Kitty or fell Boomi, put in a
52:03
new trans mog that people can earn that is like Legion esque.
52:07
And like maybe more Legion corrupted that version of your
52:11
weapon than they've done before or something like that.
52:14
And put in something that's like, hey, I was there for that.
52:17
And then once that is complete, do a new tint that goes into the
52:23
live mage tower, right? And I would like that.
52:27
Now, do I think that they should never come back?
52:30
No, I think they should come back, but I would like them to
52:33
bring it back in more, maybe more of a limited time basis
52:38
where it's like, hey, for these next three months we're bringing
52:43
back the original tints, right? And they tune it.
52:46
So it's like, hey, yeah, you can get it during during that time.
52:49
And so Mage Tower becomes like a hot new item for a little bit.
52:53
And then they bring back this Legion time walking version and
52:56
say hey, mage tower back. You can get the Legion time
52:59
running one and they just every so often it's like, here's
53:03
something new you can get from like doing the mage tower at its
53:05
new tuning. And I think that that's what I
53:07
would want. You can you can bring back the
53:11
back then. But like my issue with the time
53:13
running one, the way that they did it to Mr. Pandaria was go
53:17
collect a bunch of coins and you'll you'll just buy it.
53:19
And that to me felt cheap. And I'm really glad that they
53:22
didn't do the challenge modes. Yeah, but yeah, what's your
53:27
talk? So I don't have any of them.
53:28
I didn't play Legion at all when it was current, so I have none.
53:35
Do I think they should do it? I don't think they should do it.
53:40
And the reason I don't think they should do it is because
53:45
like we saw in Mr. Pandaria Time running, the goal of this is
53:49
that my character is so ridiculously overpowered that
53:53
everything is a walk in the park and there is no difficulty and
53:55
no challenge. You wouldn't be able to scale
53:58
the mage tower appropriately and still have that heart and soul
54:02
of what time running is, which I think is why they didn't do
54:04
challenge modes. A lot of us talked about why we
54:06
didn't have challenge modes and people were like, oh, it's
54:08
because they're restoring the prestige of these sets.
54:11
Like I don't think that's the case.
54:12
I think it's because they knew that we were going to be so
54:14
wildly overpowered that we would just be one shooting everything
54:18
in these dungeons and then there is no challenge mode.
54:21
And I think that's why they won't do it.
54:23
And so it might do. I think they will.
54:25
I don't think they will and it's going to be the first for that
54:27
same reason. I think like we didn't even see
54:30
the farms and how we didn't have challenge modes for Mr. Panda
54:33
Remix. I don't think that Mage Tower is
54:35
even going to exist. I don't know if it was part of
54:38
the story leveling when you did Deliverance Point.
54:41
If it is, it'll stay as a story thing, but I don't see any
54:45
situation where we are going into the Mage Tower in Legion
54:48
Remix and completing those challenges for skins.
54:53
And I also I hope if we can't do that, I also really hope they
54:58
don't just put them up on a vendor because they didn't with
55:00
the challenge. What sets?
55:01
I don't think they will with this.
55:03
So the challenge, that's actually a weird thing.
55:06
I like your suggestion of like bringing it back to the current
55:08
mage tower and saying hey for this you know this is legion
55:11
Time walking is happening right now on the time walking servers.
55:16
Go and do it and have fun. If you want a chance at Legion
55:19
skins, they're in the current mage tower which is scaled and
55:22
tuned appropriately. You can get them during this
55:25
window. I think that's OK.
55:27
If you have to, then still do the challenge and it is a
55:30
challenge. Bringing that back I think is
55:33
fine. I think the mage tower today is
55:35
harder than it was in Legion because despite the tip that I
55:40
gave us earlier about the Radiance stuff, because it
55:44
scales you, it scales you down to this Mace tower, whereas in
55:47
Legion it didn't. It was just like, oh, you're
55:49
stronger now, I'll fall over. And no shame to people who did
55:52
that to get them. You know, the the all 30 Sixers
55:55
walking around saying I got them all, like, I get it.
55:56
Yeah. You were fully mythic gear at
55:57
the end of the expansion and you just walked in and watch that
56:00
stuff. That's cool.
56:01
You got it. You played the game when it was
56:02
available. That's OK.
56:04
You're very prestigious but they could bring those back.
56:06
I'm sorry that was I have heard nobody walk who walks around
56:09
like that. I made I just made-up a straw
56:11
man. Legion truther doesn't exist
56:16
anyway. I like that idea of bringing
56:18
them back and saying hey while legion time running is
56:20
happening. You can get the legion original
56:23
skins in mage in live mage tower.
56:28
I think that's a cool idea. The thing about the miss
56:34
challenge mode is that when you got those sets and some of them
56:39
were cool and some of them were the shaman ones.
56:41
Garbage you could buy kind of look alike ones in Legion, but
56:51
they were. Like it was your class File
56:53
sets, wasn't it? Yeah, but they were like turn
56:57
tuned down. They were like meant to look
56:59
less prestigious. So like the Shaman 1 has like
57:03
totems on the shoulders? It was the wish.com versions of
57:06
challenge modes. Yeah, that's basically.
57:08
Challenge mode skins at home but.
57:11
Like it was like, you know how the mythic versions of of skins
57:17
have like different lightning effects and all of that.
57:21
These challenge modes had casting effects.
57:23
So like, let's say you're casting a lightning bolt, your
57:25
totems would light up and like start breathing fire and then
57:28
you shut off your lightning bolt and they would shut off.
57:30
They took that out and you didn't even have the totems on
57:33
your shoulders anymore for the Legion ones.
57:35
So they are by design less cool, right?
57:39
And I recently showed you the warlord challenge Crescent act
57:43
that like actually transforms and such.
57:46
And there's a whole wave of those weapons that came from
57:49
doing all the challenge modes and, and warlords, there's like
57:52
a, a staff that's got a book on it and the book opens up and
57:55
spells are coming out of it and everything is that.
57:57
All the That's a challenge mode. Those challenge modes, Warlord
58:00
challenge modes. Had a bunch.
58:01
Of no, you can't. I'm sad now.
58:05
So I would like stuff like that to come back.
58:09
I think that not the exact things, but I think that they
58:12
should do like here's a cool thing, here's a limited time
58:15
things we're going to put a lot of effort into, like making
58:17
these look cool. And they're not just going to be
58:19
on the store for you to buy. They are play the game at A at a
58:24
significant challenge and we're going to grant you these right.
58:29
So the challenge mode stuff, the Phoenix was a was like like the
58:36
ashes of Alar, but it was Pandaria Phoenix.
58:39
They did a recolor of it, which looks sweet in Mr. Pandaria time
58:43
running. But the original Phoenix never
58:46
came back. And I was like, OK, that's good.
58:49
That's kind of what I would like.
58:50
So they could do maybe not the artifacts, but they can do sets
58:56
that look similar or even stuff like that.
59:01
And I think just doing homages of it is cool.
59:04
So people is like, oh, this was spent around for a limited time
59:07
you can get it. But during this limited time
59:09
window. Yeah, all of that being said, if
59:13
Blizzard is like, here's the artifact appearances are on a
59:16
store, there are 1000 bronze, OK, cool.
59:18
Whatever. I I'm not, I'm not going to be
59:20
upset. Like I'm not going to rail
59:22
against the decision if they put it on a vendor for however much
59:25
bronze and that's just how it is.
59:27
The people who can get it, they don't have it great.
59:29
The people who already have it, we've had it for a long time.
59:31
You got it. You didn't start going to cut.
59:33
That's bronze saved. Congratulations.
59:35
You know, is that the would that be the best way to implement
59:38
something like that? Not in in I mean, not I don't
59:41
think not in our mind. Is that going to make us go on
59:45
Twitter and write an angry tweet or go on blue sky and pretend
59:48
we're happy? No, it's not.
59:50
It's but. I am happy.
59:53
I know I, I, I would, I would say that I wouldn't be angry, I
59:58
would be disappointed. Yeah.
1:00:00
Right. And like specifically with those
1:00:06
things, it's not, it's not about I'm better than than these
1:00:11
people who weren't there because they never had the chance.
1:00:14
I think it is that the team said, hey, this is the challenge
1:00:19
you have to do in this time. It's not going to be available
1:00:22
again. And then they reneged upon that.
1:00:25
It's not who else has it? It's the the implied, the
1:00:30
implied agreement that I had with with the Blizzard that I
1:00:34
like work my butt off. Got all these golds in there and
1:00:38
I was healing to get the golden in Pandaria.
1:00:41
Like I have not healed at that level probably since warlords I
1:00:49
stopped healing right? Bringing It Back Baby Bleeding
1:00:53
remix Manny the Healer the. Healer and I and so I would I
1:00:59
would hate for them to turn around and be like, yeah, but
1:01:02
like, you know, I got bored so give me some bronze and and and
1:01:06
you can get it it's like, oh OK, why is your.
1:01:09
Character not named Shamani. Shamani.
1:01:14
I'm so upset that your shaman's name is true villain.
1:01:17
I wanted to I will pay for the name change.
1:01:21
Please name change to Shamani. Shamani.
1:01:24
I got cool, Manny, I've got you. Could also use that name for a
1:01:28
monk. You could be Shamani.
1:01:30
No, I have Zen Zen many for my monk.
1:01:34
OK. Do you have to change your
1:01:35
shaman's name to Shamani? That is such a how was?
1:01:39
I don't know. I haven't realized that before.
1:01:43
I I don't think it's taken. I I think it's taken.
1:01:45
I don't think it's. I will find a server where
1:01:47
that's not taken. Server.
1:01:48
What server are you on? Hold on, I'm logging into the
1:01:50
game right now to check. Yeah, yeah, OK, I'm, I'm on kill
1:01:52
Jade and we'll we'll we'll deal with that later though, OK.
1:01:55
Oh no, I'm not on kill Jade and I'm on hydro.
1:01:57
I'm sorry I gave you the wrong server.
1:01:58
Anyway, that's OK. But I I think that there's a lot
1:02:04
to be said about like, hey, here's a time limited thing.
1:02:08
You can do things that are similar, like when you defeated
1:02:14
Hell Scream at the end of Pandaria, he had particular
1:02:20
heirloom items that we could never get again.
1:02:23
And it was like, beat him repeatedly so that you can get
1:02:27
all these heirlooms because they're not coming back.
1:02:29
And I would be sad if they came back.
1:02:31
Functionally, they're not any different than any other
1:02:34
heirlooms, right? So it's just that like, hey, I
1:02:38
got this trans market time. There are events that are like,
1:02:41
oh, we're going with we're going, we're going with a Cape
1:02:48
or toy that you get for being part of this event.
1:02:51
This is a pre expansion event and such.
1:02:54
And they haven't come back. I wouldn't want those to
1:02:56
suddenly start coming back, right.
1:02:58
And there's a question about if in Classic, if you could be
1:03:04
there at that time for Classic, could it unlock on your main
1:03:07
account? They've decided that they're not
1:03:10
going to do that. I think it's the same.
1:03:12
Don't do that. I think it's the same line to
1:03:15
that you cross, right? Yeah, I buy it.
1:03:19
Shamani's taken. Yeah.
1:03:22
I'm sad. Sorry if it makes you feel
1:03:25
better, I dated a Shamani. She, she, she took the name to
1:03:30
get my attention, but it's not not on that server.
1:03:33
We'll leave that one alone. I love it.
1:03:36
Let's end the show on that sad, sad note that the name Shamani,
1:03:39
if you're listening and you're on hi Joel, and you have the
1:03:42
name Shamani on your account, you're willing to give it up?
1:03:46
I'll buy it. No, I want, I want Manny.
1:03:50
I want strictly Manny. And I, I'm telling you, I know
1:03:54
the warlock that has that name and I checked their account to
1:03:57
see if this is deactivated. I'm watching.
1:04:02
I wonder if Sean's available? I got Aggie no strength, I got
1:04:06
STR and I was like, what the hell has that not been taken?
1:04:10
Anyways, this episode is spotted you by our latest patron, who
1:04:15
I'm going to look up right now. This acapella version is very
1:04:19
strange, but our latest patron is Gregory.
1:04:24
What does Gregory have? A last name.
1:04:26
Gregory does not have a last name.
1:04:27
My middle name, fun fact not. That they gave us.
1:04:32
That said, in the discord they are rye chussy, Rye chussy and
1:04:38
1969. I'm doing Gregory.
1:04:42
We're going with Gregory. It's my middle name.
1:04:44
They they get it all right. Here we go.
1:04:46
In the rolling hills of Elwyn Forest, Gregory the young human
1:04:50
paladin stood at the edge of North Shore Abbey, his gleaming
1:04:53
training sword catching the morning light.
1:04:55
The Defiance Brotherhood's shadows lingered on the horizon,
1:04:58
but Gregory's resolve burned brighter than the sun as he
1:05:01
marched towards the threats that plagued his homeland.
1:05:04
With every swing of his blade and every whispered prayer to
1:05:07
the light, he inched closer to becoming the champion he knew
1:05:10
Azeroth would one day need. Thanks for your 8 Greenwich.
1:05:17
Is that what it's called? Yeah, FAZ will always be free,
1:05:24
but if you enjoy what we do, consider pledging over to us at
1:05:27
patreon.com/F AZ because we're Canadian and Z.
1:05:32
Anyways, until next time guys. May all your hits be crits.