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The Bone Collector (Fan Pick) · Citizen Frame

0:00
It's right down to the bone. Looks like it was surgically removed.
0:03
All right, this is what I want you to do. We're gonna need those handcuffs, Amelia.
0:07
It's probably our best chance for good prints.
0:10
Well, then we can remove them when I get here. Emmy is all thumbs,
0:14
baby. They'll mess up the prints. Look in the suitcase.
0:18
There's a small saw.
0:28
Okay. I want you to saw her hands off at the wrist line.
0:33
We got to have those cuffs for Prince. Cut her hands off. We need the handcuffs. I can't. No.
0:40
Saw off her hands. Take off the cuffs.
0:44
I can't. Listen to me. Saw off her hands. We need those cuffs.
0:48
I can't. Amelia, we need the cuffs. No, fuck you.
0:54
Amelia. Amelia. All right, kids.
0:58
We're back. We're here to talk the 1999 film, The Bone Collector.
1:05
This was a fan request. Now, this fan, I believe his name is Mark,
1:10
obviously has a lot of respect for me.
1:12
So you have fans, Kieran? Has nothing. Is that right?
1:15
Yeah, he was like just going, my God. Well, I'll say.
1:20
You guys are a breath of fresh air. and if
1:23
I could hear you guys speak all day I would love I just would love that because
1:30
you guys are so good I mean that's such changed times because usually it's people
1:35
wanting to kill you but now you've actually got fans so good on this Mark guy whoever he is yeah,
1:44
whoever he is,
1:47
Mark I appreciate it but you probably want to stop texting me I want to stop it.
1:53
We do have boundaries.
1:58
He did ask us to do the bone collector. See? If you guys ask us to do something, we'll do it.
2:03
We're cool like that. We're nice guys, actually. Well, I am.
2:08
I wouldn't go that far. But yeah, it's a pleasant surprise to do this one.
2:14
We got a couple of Dunzells under our belt now because we had Dunzell for the Gladiator 2.
2:20
And so there we go. a little back-to-back Denzel.
2:23
Yeah, so we talked to Bone Collector. Bone Collector is directed by a man called
2:26
Philip Noyce, who I am a fan of.
2:29
He did Salt, Clear of Present Danger, The Saint.
2:33
It was one of his first outings. Great little indie film called The Dead Column.
2:35
Patriot Games as well, I think. Patriot Games.
2:39
Yeah, let me finish. I will be able to tell him that.
2:44
Fuck me, guys. How could you be a fan of this guy, Mark?
2:49
Patriot Games. Patriot Games.
2:51
Ruckhauer's Blind Fury, Hidden Gem. If you guys want to see a fun little film,
2:55
Blind Fury is Ruckhauer. I remember watching it as a kid. Good little film. Yeah, yeah.
2:58
It's basically about a blind guy going about putting people up with swords.
3:02
Yep, fucking right. What do you need?
3:06
So this is based on a series of novels by a man, novelist, Jeffrey Deaver.
3:13
Yes, this is the first of the book collection, The Bone Collector.
3:18
It's the first book in the Lincoln Rhine series.
3:21
There are several of these books. And I don't know.
3:25
I'm surprised they never really went back to revisit it as a movie series.
3:31
Just because the movie did quite well. Well received.
3:34
People enjoy it. So I never knew why they didn't go back to that.
3:39
But maybe that's a Denzel thing. Who knows?
3:41
But you certainly can replace somebody like Denzel in this role.
3:44
Now, if you're a fan of The Bone Collector, the film itself,
3:48
you can see it again as a remake.
3:51
That's right. The Lincoln Rhyme series was supposed to be a series on TV,
3:57
kind of like what they did with Breacher just recently.
4:00
And they redid The Bone Collector. It's called Lincoln Rhyme,
4:03
The Hint for The Bone Collector. It is available to watch.
4:07
So you guys should check it out. It doesn't look like they're new in the series.
4:12
But if you want to see a different take on this film, I recommend checking it
4:16
out. the series, I haven't seen the series but apparently it covers some of
4:20
the other books as well, possibly even them all, who knows,
4:24
Well, yeah, well, the first mini-series is the Bone Collector.
4:29
And the second series will be another novel. Did you listen to what I said?
4:33
No, but I did look up. I did do my homework, as I always do,
4:36
and I think... No, you didn't, because they didn't make the other books.
4:40
This was just based on the Bone Collector.
4:42
Right, well, okay, I'll have to take your word for that, but...
4:44
They only made one series. That's okay.
4:47
One series is based on the book. That's okay, calm down, right?
4:50
You know what? You and Mark, man.
4:55
See, Mark, now you can go and watch one of your favorite movies.
4:59
Now you can revisit it with the miniseries.
5:01
The hint for the bone collector.
5:04
See, this is wonderful information we're giving you, and you should be blessed.
5:10
All right, so we've got Denzel Washington, who plays Lincoln.
5:13
We've got Angelina Jolie. Angelina Jolie was kind of a newcomer.
5:18
She just did Hackers, and she just got the Oscar for Girl Interrupted.
5:23
She was Best Supporting Actress.
5:24
This plays Amelia Leland Orser as Richard
5:27
terrible casting because I knew right away who the killer was spoiler alert
5:30
yeah same here actually Michael Rooker Michael
5:34
Rooker the worst red herring it could be Captain Howard
5:37
Queen Latifah as Selma who I actually really enjoy
5:40
in this and always like to see Louis Guzman as
5:44
Andy Ortiz you've almost forgotten Al Bundy from Married with Children as the
5:48
boss I actually haven't forgotten you just interrupted makes a change from you
5:52
interrupting me but there you go we never interrupt you you fucking interrupt
5:57
I'm going through the cast and you go wait a minute you've got somebody or can I fucking finish,
6:02
anyways Michael McClellan as Detective Kenny and yes surprise Ed O'Neill plays
6:10
Detective yes yeah you got there I'm fucking happy fuck me.
6:17
This is gonna be the worst fucking podcast ever sorry Mark I apologize I'm sorry,
6:23
Anyways, I do like the beginning. The beginning is quick and short.
6:26
Obviously, we know pretty much his story is that he's a quadriplegic,
6:31
and they quickly show how he becomes one.
6:33
And I do like the fact when he's going into the crime scene,
6:37
because he's pretty much a forensic expert, criminologist, and he has to go
6:42
to the crime scene for anyone who really touches it so he can,
6:44
you know, towards any of the evidence.
6:47
But I do like the claustrophobic feel. I hate tight spaces.
6:52
And he's got to go in that little tight little space underneath the
6:55
subway wherever the fuck he is and then all you see is the pilot hit his neck
6:58
I wouldn't be a very good forensic expert because of things like that you know
7:03
I don't like tights I would get quite claustrophobic yes so yeah yeah but yes
7:08
it sets it up basically how he has become essentially paralyzed.
7:15
Yeah and and then it quickly cuts to pretty much the first kidnapping the douchebag
7:22
rich couple so I really didn't give a fuck about them the wife wasn't too bad
7:26
but the husband was an asshole the wife wasn't bad but she was still a gold digger fucker right,
7:33
says a lot about you Kieran I'm in a bad mood why are you in a bad mood because
7:39
you ruined Mark's day with all your rude interruptions.
7:43
Go ahead yeah so i so the killer
7:46
is pretty much cabbie picks up his victims and that's
7:50
all you kind of really see now the movie
7:53
is kind of playing on the success of a couple other films this time you had
7:57
these kind of dark thrillers coming out like the game david fincher stuff david
8:01
fincher kind of put this stuff reinvented the wheel on this with seven the game
8:06
and so on and zodiac came out They were very big in the 90s,
8:10
these types of thrillers.
8:12
Yeah, and that's when, and Philip Noyce is definitely the man to do it,
8:16
but what they don't do, it's not gratuitous, and,
8:21
it's not gratuitous in any way and they don't overdo the violence and if you
8:27
do see anything it's the aftermath yeah i mean it is restraint it's not yeah yeah i'd agree with that,
8:34
and you think they'll take away from it but it doesn't and the funny thing is
8:37
films like this you kind of want to see the killing and the gore i certainly
8:41
do nothing beats a good killing.
8:45
But the film really focuses on our boy's journey, Lincoln, and how he wants
8:54
to pretty much end his life because he has all these seizures.
8:58
And one of these days, one of these seizures is going to make him a vegetable,
9:02
put him in a vegetative state.
9:03
So he asks his good friend who's the doc who takes care of him.
9:07
He's going to come back from a conference and he's going to assist him to suicide.
9:10
Yeah. Now, this came out at a time, and this was written in 97,
9:15
so it was around the same time where you had a man called Dr.
9:19
Jack Kevorkian making headlines where he made headlines by performing assisted
9:24
suicides. He was known as Dr. Death.
9:28
And so you had this topic was pretty fresh when the book was written and when the movie was made.
9:34
And it's definitely that gray area with assisted suicides. I'm not going to get political on it.
9:39
To each their own, really. It's sad if someone has to come to that kind of decision
9:43
about their life. I mean, it's the sort of thing that I would never sort of,
9:49
who am I to judge, you know what I mean?
9:51
Because, you know, by the grace of God, I've never actually been in that position.
9:54
So, you know, who am I to judge people's own personal walks or decisions?
10:00
You know, yeah, I'm not sort of going down that road, you know.
10:05
Well, when it comes to this film, and I think that's what people need to peel
10:09
the layer of it. Yeah, we got the cool stuff, you know, them hunting the killer.
10:13
But the film is really about him. And the man just sits in a bed the whole time.
10:18
And it's Denzel who sells this. And then the supporting cast all sell it. They all do very well.
10:24
They're all detective buddies and Emilia and Thelma.
10:29
They're there to protect him and help him. But it's Denzel's performance in
10:32
this. I mean, he sells it that he doesn't want to be around anymore,
10:37
especially given the gift that he has before he became a quadriplegic.
10:42
And you kind of understand where he wants to go. But it's his journey.
10:48
This one's about his journey and his passion for what he does,
10:52
being brought back to him with this new case and how it rejuvenates him to find
10:59
a light. And also, obviously, because Denzel can act.
11:03
So he very much sells it, even though he's not doing any real physical acting here.
11:09
Well, we'll get to the finale, of course, soon enough.
11:12
But yeah, I mean, Denzel can very much do something like this with just basically
11:18
facial expressions for the bulk of his acting.
11:22
While it's a very, well, like you said, it's a very moving performance,
11:27
considering you can't move.
11:30
Sick bastard that you are you know desperate see what I have to put up with
11:35
Mark you know whoever you are.
11:40
No he's not listening he's already ended I don't think Mark exists Kieran I
11:44
think he's like getting up to sound like yeah friends,
11:48
is that he's fucking I'm all alone yeah I did two fake Marks that's what I did
11:55
two fake Marks the first Mark me knew yes Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
12:01
He's still yelling at us because we're supposed to do Silence of the Lambs.
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And I finally told him that we're going to do Silence of the Lambs,
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but we got to do it as a box set.
12:09
So he's going to have to fucking wait. Fucking wait. Patience. All right.
12:15
So we meet Amelia. And pretty much she's, you know, stopping the train,
12:20
get the crime scene, taking photos and so forth.
12:24
And this is her, this is where she finds, you know, the hand of the dead husband,
12:31
the ring fingers, you know, boned, you know, we don't go into the details.
12:35
And then you got Michael Rooker, who's your captain, comes on board and always
12:39
was a dick to her. Now, I like Michael Rooker, and this is nothing against him.
12:42
This is the way the character is written.
12:43
The problem I have with this is, hey, it's a terrible red herring.
12:47
But I believe he, you're supposed to believe he's trying to distract them from solving the case.
12:54
But he's not. he used to be involved in the original case they find out this guy's killed before,
13:01
and he was the investigative officer of
13:04
that case I think so but he didn't solve the case obviously so
13:07
maybe it sort of suggested that there's
13:10
a bit of resentment there towards Lincoln and maybe
13:14
self resentment for not getting it I think I could be wrong well that's what
13:20
bothers me about it here's a guy he's the captain now he couldn't solve a case
13:25
and now he's not going to let these guys solve it I was like wait a minute yeah I don't get that,
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or was he trying to take credit like he was
13:34
always one step he was always there when they were one step ahead of him he'd
13:38
show up so he was prepared to basically let people die at the hands of the killer
13:44
just to see a face so yeah it's a bit ridiculous no I think he was there I don't
13:51
think he would know. I don't think he was that. I think he was trying.
13:54
Yeah. You're supposed to think he's a killer. Exactly. I thought he was.
13:59
Or in cahoots because he's true.
14:01
No, I didn't see that. But that's how I think this character is poorly written
14:06
because the whole time, I think what he was trying to do, he was intervening
14:11
so he could jump over, take over the case and solve the crime.
14:14
Possibly. Yes. Yes. Well, actually, that's a better explanation.
14:17
Ego. Yes. It's an ego thing. Yeah, 100%. But regarding, I mean,
14:21
it was him, in my head, it was either him was the killer, or it was the other
14:26
guy who actually was the killer.
14:28
So, yes, it was a bit, I mean, I like Rooker, but it's just,
14:34
and it could be very much down to the writing, but there was just, yeah.
14:38
His character just didn't work, and could easily have been taken out of the
14:42
film completely, and he wouldn't have been missed.
14:46
Well, what they should have done was take him down a notch.
14:50
Don't have him in as much. Because in the beginning, we're already introduced
14:54
to the killer. Spoiler alert, people.
14:57
We're already introduced to a guy who played killers in the past in the end
15:00
of the 90s. He's Richard, the technician.
15:04
And so you've got Leland Orser. You've got Michael Rooker.
15:08
You've got, I don't know, you don't really need to pepper in too many.
15:12
There aren't that many, anyway.
15:14
Those two would have been enough. The problem is the Leland Orson character,
15:20
Richard, is barely in it. He's only in the beginning.
15:22
And the micro-worker's in it too much. So process of elimination,
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you're not going to go for the one they're fucking pummeling you with.
15:29
You're going to pick Richard. It's too obvious.
15:33
And that does take away from the little mystery of it.
15:37
The mystery here and the rhyme and reason for the crimes, we'll get into it.
15:44
Like I said, guys, the movie really focuses more on Dungell's journey,
15:48
and the backstory, the kind of side story, is the killer.
15:53
That's the way I'm looking at this film. Yes, basically the killings and the
15:59
case is more of a plot device overall for basically Lincoln and Amelia to get together,
16:07
and his journey from basically wanting to euthanize himself.
16:13
To basically being given one or two very good reasons to live again.
16:19
Yeah, it's about his journey.
16:21
Well, yeah, I mean, you've got the scene where he has his first seizure and
16:25
Kulia Tifa is very good here too.
16:27
But Denzel is obviously selling it the most. But he, obviously,
16:32
you see what he can't breathe.
16:35
And this is where one of these days it's going to eventually,
16:38
you know, he's going to eventually take over him.
16:42
But he survives it, and it is because Pauly and Detective Kenny show up,
16:49
and they show him these pictures.
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And he starts really getting into it. He doesn't want to at first,
16:54
but he starts getting into it.
16:55
And then his blood starts, you know, starts racing, and he starts sweating,
17:00
and that causes, it causes the seizures.
17:03
But after the next scene, they left the pictures and everything there.
17:08
He starts looking up the pictures.
17:10
And then you see Thelma giving him a little, kind of giving herself a little
17:14
smile to herself because she sees him wanting to do something,
17:22
giving him hope and something to do rather than try to get his life.
17:27
See, I like that element of it. You know, we talk about films that give you
17:31
a couple of different genres in it, and this kind of does that.
17:34
It does play, you know, it's kind of like, I know it's apples to oranges, the descent.
17:39
The descent, you go in there and you want to go see a horror film.
17:42
Here we're going to see a movie like Seven.
17:44
But for half the film, it's more of a claustrophobic adventure film than it
17:49
is a horror film. This kind of does the same thing.
17:52
You know, it's a drama about a man who is dealing with being a quadriplegic
17:57
and he's missing what he used to do and then we get involved in this serial killing.
18:05
I do like films that do that. I was thinking of The Descent as well whenever
18:11
I was watching certain scenes.
18:12
In fact, even talking about that opening scene where we find out how Lincoln
18:17
became paralyzed and stuff, that whole across the fabric thing.
18:22
And some of the scenes with the serial killer with his victims did actually
18:25
remind me a bit, not too much, but of that, of the descent.
18:30
So you have this, um, he likes Amelia because of the, you know,
18:34
she's the way she handled the pictures and stuff for the first crime scene.
18:38
I think her character is ridiculous.
18:40
And here's, I thought that because I thought she was kind of a whiny little.
18:46
No, not even that, you know.
18:49
But at the end of the day, she's kind of on the same journey as he is because
18:54
he's trying to teach her something,
18:57
she's kind of cocky and arrogant and has a past because her father took her
19:03
own life, took his life, sorry, took his own life.
19:06
And here's a man who wants to take his own life.
19:10
And so I know I kind of like, I will say this.
19:15
I like Angela Julie. I like her very much, actually.
19:21
No, no, no. You remember what the judge told you?
19:26
Yeah, restraining when it's been lifted But,
19:32
She's a little She's a little bit beyond the ice here I think,
19:37
She's okay But the character is an ex-model Turned street cop Who happens to
19:44
be a secret Forensics expert that she doesn't even know herself about Yeah,
19:48
right It's just a bit too much No, no, that's not fair
19:53
The model thing is kind of funny, but no, no, she didn't want that role.
19:58
She just, her instinct just made her stop the train, take the pictures. And he knew that.
20:03
So that's why Lincoln took her on board. She has that instinct.
20:07
She doesn't want to be a forensic criminologist. I know that. She says that.
20:11
So no, that's not fair to judge the character on that.
20:14
I'm saying. It's too convenient for the plot for me.
20:17
No, I'm okay with that. I just have a problem with her.
20:21
And she gets better as the movie goes on, as she becomes more likable,
20:25
like she can say, because I don't like her.
20:28
But at the time, there was another actress who would probably be better for
20:31
this than I think would be Ashley. Yeah, but she was quite big during this period.
20:35
And yeah, Angelina Julie here is, I mean, she's all right, but I have no problem
20:41
with the character being a little bit cocky and, you know, unlikable.
20:45
But I mean, again, I like Angelina Jolie and,
20:49
I just I'm just wasn't a hundred I think that maybe the problem is she's playing
20:54
alongside Denzel Washington and she was sort of it was early in their career
20:58
at the time so maybe maybe he,
21:01
yeah wet beyond the air fish out of water maybe,
21:05
but that's gonna happen this I mean,
21:08
this you know and I'm not she's not no she gets better as the film goes and
21:13
maybe that's the way the character was written and she was directed exactly
21:15
you got to be unlikable you're being very abrupt to a man who's trying to help
21:20
you you know steer your career in the right direction
21:22
and you're being you know and maybe she did sell it maybe her the way I don't
21:27
like her is the way we're supposed to perceive her because at the end of the
21:29
film I kind of like her so maybe that's completely convinced no,
21:35
okay whatever yeah.
21:40
Pretty Angelina you see this is the stuff that the Australian order was put in force for you know,
21:47
you're selling yourself short here you know what I mean someone's going to report
21:51
this Mark will probably report it actually Mark be a good guy there and report him,
22:00
so when she goes to her first crime second crime scene that is Mrs.
22:04
Rubin's little self-esteem let
22:08
us some steam mrs rubin that was
22:12
a good one she probably didn't see it hit her face yeah i like a bit of uh i
22:16
mean a bell sickle like you but like you've just actually stated indirectly
22:21
but you know yeah sometimes you know it's it is a it's a delicate balance you
22:26
know of showing too much and not showing enough and i think here i wouldn't
22:30
like to have seen more No.
22:32
What should have happened is so when she's in the crime scene and she's walking
22:37
in by herself and she's doing her thing and he's trying to help her look for
22:42
blah, blah, blah, look for clues and whatnot.
22:46
And if she goes up to the body and she's still alive.
22:50
Like at seven? And she's like, yeah, like seven. You deserve what you got. Yeah.
22:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you leave them, you deserve everything.
23:00
You got. He's like, that's awesome.
23:03
I mean, they're sort of riffing on seven anyway with this film,
23:07
so they might as well have done something like that.
23:09
You know, I would say even here with the whole, you know, Lincoln and Amelia,
23:14
you know, the sort of mentor and, you know, mentoring the younger rookie,
23:20
it also called the mind for me, Hannibal Lecter and Clarice Starling in The Silence of the Lambs.
23:28
I got more seven with free. I think there's a lot of, I think there's a bit
23:32
of both going on, along with other stuff.
23:35
And you know what? There's nothing wrong with it. And the writers made it as,
23:38
and the, and the writers made it as well.
23:41
Well, I mean, you know, we talk about, we talk about Tarantino doing that every film.
23:47
I think, but I would never take that away from the writer.
23:51
It's an original script, but I definitely think there's certain inspirations
23:54
here. You know, I like Silence of the Lambs, Rear Window 7, you know, stuff like that.
24:00
But it definitely got a sort of Hannibal Lecter and Clarice Starling Silence
24:04
of the Lambs vibe between their relationship.
24:07
You always, always have a Hannibal Lecter and a Starling reference in everything you do.
24:14
We could be talking fucking dumb, we could be talking dumb, and you'd be like,
24:19
yeah, you know what these two remind me of?
24:21
It's very Lovecraftian, but But at the same time, it's got a very sense of Lansfield.
24:26
But I very, very rarely would make Hallamble actor references.
24:31
Everybody who listens to this podcast knows it's Lovecraft, fucking Doctor Who,
24:36
Neighbors, or fucking Silence of the Hanks. Well, did you notice the Doctor
24:38
Who reference? And Lynch.
24:41
Oh, there's a massive one? No, there isn't.
24:45
Yeah, I know there isn't. But there's an alien resurrection?
24:47
Well, I wish they'd tie you up to a fucking steam. Let off some steam, Kevin.
24:56
They're also steam by the... So are you all right there? Okay.
25:02
So she finds a bone, a feather, and some hair. The clues are kind of...
25:08
The paper I get, the paper I get for the clues, because they make the image.
25:14
Like a puzzle. But I do think how they kind of dissect the bone.
25:19
Oh, the bone is from a cow, hi, blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah. The asbestos.
25:23
And then they have all these asbestos.
25:27
I guess if you have a team helping you, you get it. But I think some of us kind
25:30
of like, really? I just didn't find it very interesting, to be honest with you. You know, like.
25:35
Yeah, I wanted more of a puzzle that we get figured out, too.
25:40
Well, you know the way in sentence. Again, riffing on sentence alarms with.
25:45
Oh, here we go. You know with the whole, they had the moths in Sands of the Lambs.
25:51
That was the clues where Buffalo Bill was leaving the moths.
25:53
And it's about Hannibal Lecter's breaking.
25:55
Hannibal Lecter knows anyway, but he's sort of given her subtle clues about it. It's about rebirth.
26:01
So there's all that sort of thing going on here as well with the clues that are left.
26:05
And, you know, obviously it's finally revealed towards the end in the bookshop.
26:10
I will say this. That's where the story kind of falls flat.
26:14
And it's a big one. But again, I'm more intrigued with the Denzel character.
26:18
Yeah. Well, I think he saves the film.
26:21
Oh, he is the film. Period. He is the film. That's why the whole series is based on him.
26:27
And I just feel that the clues, a good mystery, a good whodunit or clues,
26:34
the audience should be able to take those three clues and kind of figure it out for themselves.
26:39
But it's good to be surprised as well. These guys are putting a piece of bone
26:42
in a computer, and they're like, oh, yeah, that's from a cow's ass.
26:46
From the old mill back down in blah, blah. Well, how am I supposed to get it?
26:50
And more importantly, why should I give a shit? You know?
26:55
Well, no. I mean, you do want to catch the fucker. Yeah. But,
27:00
wow, you don't want a serial killer to be caught?
27:02
That's sick. Not as sick as you. I'm stalking out. That is sick. You know?
27:07
But um that's water under the,
27:12
you've served your time you've moved on I do like when she's got a you know,
27:19
she's got a she's looking around the scene and she gets the feather,
27:23
the hair, the bone and then he's like okay get something to cut the handcuffs
27:28
now I need you to cut off her hands yeah,
27:33
and she's like go fuck yourself This is him sort of testing her.
27:37
I mean, obviously there's a point to it.
27:38
You know, he's not just being sick for the sake of it. You know,
27:42
there, there is a point to it.
27:43
But then, you know, but,
27:48
and there's the captain again smirking because she can't cut the hands off I'm
27:54
like why are you smirking help her go cut the hands off,
27:58
that's what I don't like when we watch this that man should have been in there
28:03
to help her let him be a dick for a while and then realize you know what I gotta
28:09
help her give that character some kind of an arc here,
28:12
that's just a problem as well I actually like decks and assholes and films, fuck me. That didn't...
28:23
Well, I know I'm talking about in terms of people's personality.
28:36
Oh, best comment you've ever said, ever. Right, let me just clarify. Trevor, I apologize.
28:44
We're watching The Bone Collector not the boner collector let me just clarify
28:49
I'm talking about people who are idiots in films who are unlikable I'm not talking
28:55
about physical dicks and assholes right anyway,
29:01
yeah I mean I set myself right up there so then,
29:07
best moment ever ever Mark thank you right anyway move simply on,
29:17
I just like to correct myself I like unlikable characters in films but there
29:22
has to be a payoff in terms of they have to get their comeuppance in some way
29:26
yes he does get bumped off by the killer and he uses a red herring but you don't
29:30
even see it on screen so there's no,
29:33
I hated that. That was a cheat. I fucking hate that. You don't even see it on screen.
29:37
For the audience, as an audience member, I'm still laughing at that earlier,
29:42
Mum. That was completely unintentional, by the way.
29:47
And as soon as I say that, tear me up. But anyway, yes.
29:52
There was no real payoff with that character's journey. And again, not Rooker's fault.
29:57
Rooker's a journeyman actor. You know what I mean? He's been in all sorts over the years.
30:01
And he still is. you know so it's not his fault I mean you get you get the guy
30:07
who played Henry the Portion of Sierra Killer I understand why you want to make him Red Herring,
30:12
spoiler he's also the killer in Sea of Love but I get that and you've got Leland
30:17
Larson who's known for playing you know Mad Men I understand that he's also in Seven.
30:22
But at the end of the day when you when the killer is revealed and why he's
30:30
doing it it's kind of like It's stupid.
30:32
Yeah. And the twist should have been something like, well, we'll dig a little deeper into the twist.
30:40
Let's, let's, we'll get to the ending here. Yeah.
30:43
Yeah. Well, there's another victim as well, you know, the sort of colleagues guy.
30:48
Yeah. That poor bastard got the worst, man. He gets eaten alive by rats.
30:52
Yeah. That's, that was quite, that was pretty, you know, straight out of a horror story, essentially.
30:59
Yeah. Yeah, because that's where they got the clues that the last one, the steam victim,
31:08
because they found it's an old meat factory because the bone is from some kind
31:13
of a cow and the hair was from rats.
31:16
That's how they kind of figured out. And there's an old dwelling here that would
31:21
suit the purpose of whatever he wants to do next. Yes.
31:25
And eventually they solve the clue of basically the image where it's basically of an old publisher.
31:31
So that's whenever she runs and gets the book, the bone collector,
31:36
and they sort of break it down.
31:37
But in the meantime, before the ending, there's also two potential new victims,
31:43
which is the grandfather and his granddaughter who's kidnapped. Yeah.
31:47
Yeah. Let's talk about, though, as they're trying to solve where the kid is,
31:52
the one who gets eaten by the rats, they're...
31:56
Again, they're solving it. They got moments. They got only, you know,
32:00
moments to try to save this kid's life.
32:02
And again, there he is, a Lincoln, and he's getting overexcited.
32:09
And he started to sweat.
32:12
And Thelma tells him, you need to relax. You need to relax.
32:17
And there's a scene where you see all the cops, the main cops that we know that he's friends with.
32:22
Pretty much big close-ups of him as this is happening.
32:26
It's actually a nice shot where they're finally, I mean, yeah,
32:30
they see him as a quadriplegic, but when he has one of these attacks in front
32:33
of them... It leaves him very vulnerable.
32:35
It's an eye-opener. I think it's an eye-opener for them to see what their...
32:40
What he's going through.
32:42
Mentor, I guess you can say, what their mentor is going through.
32:45
And again, Denzel, again, carries this film, and, you know, he carries it so
32:50
well, he's not doing any... Well, he is doing physical acting, but from a bed.
32:54
So, you know, yeah. Exactly.
32:57
It's kind of like with- Jimmy Stewart, Weir Window.
33:02
Jimmy Stewart, Weir Window. Yeah, that's a perfect example. How long was I thinking
33:06
of? I can't remember now. Robocop. Misery. James Caan and Misery.
33:10
Matt, James Caan, Misery. Robocop, what are you talking about, Robocop?
33:14
Eh, he's a robot. I don't know. No, but I suppose with Robocop,
33:18
it's Peter Weller's in a suit the whole time.
33:20
See yeah he's not doing he's doing a lot of
33:23
well but that's the opposite he's doing more physical acting you know
33:26
what i mean but i
33:29
woke up what the fuck anyways um yeah
33:33
but uh i would say what
33:36
did what did piss me off not piss me
33:38
off in a bad way but during the finale you know
33:41
despite all this great acting by denzel you know
33:44
basically with his eyes and his face essentially whenever
33:48
he turns into a paraplegic ramble at the end and still beats the bad guy in
33:54
a fight you know that was a bit ridiculous I felt well let's get to that we're
33:59
jumping ahead now because we still have the clue where the rats were where you
34:05
found the matchbox and another piece of paper.
34:09
The piece of paper they're getting is going to be the final.
34:13
They'll figure it out. That's where I have a massive problem.
34:17
And then Captain fucking Doofus shows up. Give me all the evidence.
34:22
I'm taking over. Like, what are you talking about? They're solving this.
34:25
Take all the equipment away. Take all of this equipment away.
34:28
Why would you do this? They're solving the crime.
34:31
This doesn't make any sense to me. You know what I mean? Nobody would do this.
34:37
Yeah. And it's a really convoluted way of setting up him as a red herring, you know?
34:44
It is. It's sort of, it's daft.
34:48
Well, she removes the evidence from, she takes a piece of paper that she finds, yeah.
34:56
You don't play by the rules, you know? That's it.
35:01
Yeah. She's doing Martin Riggs. so and
35:05
he smells the paper and he smells it oil and they put the piece together oil
35:11
oil oh that's really that's really or we the oil the the old what do you call
35:17
it uh with the with the gasoline on the boat yeah in the harbor down the docks
35:22
yeah that he kind of puts that pieces together,
35:25
and I don't know.
35:28
I just think it's a weird scene.
35:31
It's just kind of... Now he's a bloodhound. I know the guy's good.
35:36
Ultimately, this is... I think...
35:40
It's quite weakly directed. It's almost like it's very sort of run-of-the-mill
35:45
direction and that whenever these big plot points are happening or twists or
35:50
whatever, you're going, oh, right.
35:52
You're just saying, oh, okay, I'm still sort of kind of invested,
35:56
but you're not sort of blown away, you know, as you would have been with similar
36:00
films of this type, like Seven or The Game or even, you know, The Signs of the Alarms.
36:08
There there's some odd moments i don't like with it where
36:11
they're they're they're alone and they're you know
36:14
trying to solve the crime ceiling's over to
36:17
help something oh you see oh no she spills she spills
36:20
the paper on his chest and she's trying to get the paper off his chest whatever
36:23
and he's smelling her hair and looking at it and i was like this is a shame
36:27
awkward and you know it just it doesn't seem right i thought you took to go
36:33
on your wing to mentor you appreciate i don't No, no, seriously.
36:39
And he's there to, but then all of a sudden he's got romantic interest.
36:43
Or is that because he can't have physical.
36:46
Well, you know what I mean? It's just, it doesn't seem right for the character to do that.
36:51
Is it just to make him seem, cause he seems kind of vulnerable to him too.
36:54
I was like, well, I think it's more, it could be, I haven't read the novel that
36:58
this is based on, but it sounds like it could be a studio note where there has
37:02
to be a romantic element to it.
37:06
You know, like the last podcast we talked about Tombstone, you know,
37:11
with Josephine and Wyatt Earp, you know, maybe, you know, these things.
37:15
Yeah, but this, I think this is subtly done. I don't think, I don't think Angelique
37:19
Jolie is playing it for love. I don't think he is either.
37:23
I think he's just kind of, they're not together at the end. Yes, they are.
37:26
Yes. Are they? Sure, the final scene, it's Christmas and she saved him.
37:30
He hasn't killed himself.
37:31
Yeah, but, but they're just friends. No, no, no, no. Yes, no,
37:34
no, no. They're more than friends.
37:36
But like to be fair like you say it's subtly done where it's done with something
37:40
like they like look at each other in the eyes and then they hold hands so it's
37:44
subtly done what were you expecting them to shag or something sort of heard of like jump his bones
37:49
well no no I just think it's just.
37:52
No you know what good on him way to go Denzel but no no they are definitely
37:57
they definitely become an idea,
37:59
Denzel can get her but I'm just a you're probably
38:02
just jealous because you know I don't think so I think they're just friends
38:05
No they're not They're much more than friends And she's even reunited him with
38:10
his sister So I know But it's just because it's not sort of You know I think
38:17
it's a father figure Well that makes it quite creepy to be honest you saying that,
38:21
No no it's a father figure Her father was a cop he did suicide Yes But they're
38:27
definitely romantically linked
38:28
There's no romantic I don't think there is They are they're together.
38:33
Well, maybe the miniseries will explain that. Or the book. Yeah. There you go.
38:38
So the final one, this is the father and the- Grandfather. I think it's the
38:43
grandfather and the daughter.
38:44
It's the grandfather and the granddaughter.
38:48
And the cop stops him and he's used to cop. I thought, oh, man.
38:51
It almost seems like they rush this part of it. Yeah, a lot of things like that.
38:55
But, and I was like, why is he stopping the cab? They finally say they have
38:59
that. in certain areas, you'll have what they call a cop who's actually a taxi inspector.
39:06
He stops them because I didn't know this. If you have people in your car and
39:11
you don't have the meter on or the sign saying cab taken or whatever,
39:15
that you'd think they'd get pulled over. That's definitely a thing.
39:17
I mean, that can happen here in Belfast.
39:20
I don't know how often it does happen, but if a taxi driver isn't licensed or
39:26
doesn't have the sign on top of his taxi,
39:29
he'd very much get pulled over by the cops that's not an American thing that's
39:34
here in Belfast as well so,
39:37
this, they got the three pieces of paper together and it's a logo,
39:42
it's a logo of an old publishing logo that used to do old crime stories and he goes we need to find.
39:50
Yeah so she goes to a bookstore and finds one, oh there it is and it's one with
39:56
the logo on it and it happens to be The Bone Collector. Yeah.
40:00
Well, I mean, to get my point, I thought that was kind of the first book.
40:05
Yeah. Too much of this is a convenience overall.
40:08
Yeah. But I'm entertained. Yeah. I'm entertained still because I like Denzel
40:15
and I like the other characters. I like Thelma.
40:20
And this is where Angela and Jolie, once she kind of gets her head out of her
40:23
ass, she kind of and she's kind of liking what she's doing getting to the role,
40:30
that's where I start liking her more I will agree that she definitely does improve
40:32
over the course of the film,
40:35
yeah I just thought that was like a diamond in the rough kind of investigation
40:40
I just admire a sort of sassy street cop no no I meant oh sorry,
40:47
oh here's the bookstore I'll go in here there are some.
40:52
There's a few too many of them to be honest But yes, I mean,
40:56
you know, yes, you know, that, that's worked, but it is.
41:01
And then when he opened, she opened, she had, and the one book that they find
41:05
that has a publishing logo is the right one.
41:09
And she, she opens the pictures and the pictures look just like the deaths that
41:12
were set up, the steep pipe, the rats.
41:15
And she sees the harbor, the people drowning in the water. So she knows they're
41:20
at the harbor somewhere. and that's where he puts the pieces together.
41:23
The petrol smell, that must be from the harbor where they refueled boats and shit.
41:31
I don't know. The old man doesn't make it. Fuck who cares, he's old.
41:36
That's nice. But no, no. But once we'll get to this sort of final fight with
41:41
the real serial killer and Denzel,
41:43
that did wind me up a bit in terms of, he does the whole James Bond villain
41:47
thing where instead of killing Denzel, he reveals his diabolical plan to him.
41:52
You know, if it hadn't been for you, you know, and basically it's about revenge
41:57
against Denzel for basically getting him scooped a lot of years before.
42:02
And then also a man who doesn't have the part of his legs or his arms can basically
42:08
beat up a villain, you know?
42:12
No, I'm okay with that. I'm not really. I mean, it's alright. Again, too convenient.
42:16
I am. I like the fact, yeah, he destroyed his life because he was tinkering
42:21
up with evidence or something like that. And he's like, I did six years.
42:25
You know, they do the men in prison, the cops in prison, they brutally lies me.
42:31
You probably fit right in there, Trevor, with your assholes and dicks.
42:38
You got a pretty mouth, Trevor. Have you seen Silence of the Lambs?
42:43
Yeah. I'm never going to let this comment down. You'd have the perfect sell
42:47
me. I'm not talking about the Silence of the Lambs one. No.
42:51
This is the best. No, I don't mind this because he struggles and he uses what he can.
42:59
And I love the fact he takes a big chunk out of his neck. That is awesome.
43:03
It is a good sort of bit of gore and sort of violence and stuff. But it does.
43:07
And what is set up as a very supposedly a serious film would do get down the
43:13
route of the sort of Bond villain.
43:16
The campy Bond villain, like in Moonraker, explaining his diabolical plan.
43:23
No, I don't think. I think. No, this isn't Cam. No, but he still does the same
43:28
thing. were instead of killing.
43:31
James Bond is camp. They're playing for camp. Not all James Bond,
43:34
but some is. This is done. But no, no.
43:36
I mean, you got to realize, I mean, I don't like the fact that they killed the captain off camera.
43:42
Yes, I would like to see that. They should have saw a struggle between them,
43:44
him and him, because that's not better than Michael Rooker.
43:47
And if you see him struggling, trying to save. It's a redemption.
43:51
It becomes a redemption arc then for him.
43:53
Exactly. That's what we needed for him. And that would have taken five minutes
43:57
to give us that shot. and I do like the fact and I do like the fact they killed
44:02
Thelma well that was quite to be fair she has very little to do anyway so yeah,
44:08
But I liked the character. And when she got stabbed, I was like,
44:12
so the next scene is the Christmas scene.
44:14
I was waiting for her to see her. But no, she didn't survive it. She's dead. Yeah.
44:20
No, no. When I say in terms of, I mean, not all Bonds are campy.
44:24
You know, some of them are done very gritty and serious, especially the Dalton.
44:29
No, you're talking about the Dalton
44:31
and Craig. But when people think Bond villain, they don't think that.
44:34
They think Dr. No. In terms of what I'm talking about, although it's played serious here,
44:38
he still does make the stupid mistake of instead of killing Denzel,
44:44
he explains his plan to him and why he's there to kill him instead of just killing him, you know?
44:50
Well, I'm okay with that because you want— It's a cliche, but— Because of what
44:54
he went through, he needs to tell him why he's here. Yeah, I know,
44:55
but it is a bit of a cliche, and it's another convenience.
44:59
It's not a cliche. I mean, I get why a killer would do that.
45:03
If you have like a spy who's trying to destroy your plan,
45:08
and he's now I'm going to tell you my plan that
45:11
I get but this man has a personal vendetta against this man he's going to tell
45:17
him because that's the whole purpose of a vendetta you want to look that person
45:21
in the eye and tell him why you've done this that makes more sense for him to
45:25
do that well maybe if he hadn't bothered doing that and just killed Denzel he
45:28
might have got away with it all but no he bollocked about,
45:32
No, that wouldn't be the mentality. Your mentality wouldn't be that.
45:36
Your mentality is to show him and tell him why you lost and why you went.
45:42
I don't know how serial killers or murderers think. Clearly you do.
45:45
That's the whole point of revenge.
45:47
That's the whole point of revenge is to be able to let that person know it was
45:52
you. It defeats the purpose. Mr.
45:54
Fucking mind of a killer.
45:58
Yeah, fucking right. Fucking right. All right.
46:02
Yeah, we tore this film pretty good. It is good. It's still fucking entertainment. I watched it.
46:07
I really enjoy it. It's a great little film. I would like to have seen more,
46:11
but I don't know what happened there. But it is good.
46:15
Check it out, guys. It's good. It is good. I enjoyed it. I was entertained,
46:19
and I found it good. I just wasn't blown away, to be fair.
46:23
That's a fair assessment. Yeah.
46:25
Mark, thank you for the shout-out. All joking aside, we do appreciate you reaching
46:29
out to us and giving your, you know, your pick.
46:36
And, yeah, so anyone else wants us to do some picks, always give us a shout.
46:40
You got to give us a shout at Citizen
46:41
Frame Facebook or at Citizen Frame underscore podcast on Instagram.
46:47
That's the only way we'll do it, not personal. So if you want us to tackle something,
46:52
give us a shout, even if it's something really batshit crazy.
46:55
But keep in mind, don't be offended, because we'll probably hate it. Or I will.
46:59
Fucking freak boy over here probably would love it. Oh, my God.
47:04
It's atmospheric and magic.
47:07
Well, I can think of several. She was in Neighbors. Yeah.
47:13
All right, guys. We're going to wrap this one up. The new issue of PhantasmGoria is out now.
47:19
It is the Irish folk horror. Well, I mean, it's sort of Irish horror and fantasy in general.
47:26
So, you know, a lot of, you know, as per usual, a great mix of,
47:29
you know, interviews with big names and sort of articles and reviews,
47:34
artwork and all the rest. So check it out.
47:37
Available right across the world from Amazon and soon at a launch event in Belfast
47:43
Forbidden Planet on Good Friday.
47:46
There you go. Yeah. So there you go.
47:51
Um, guys, thanks for giving us a shout.
47:54
Music.