Latest / Crypto Altruists: Real-World Stories of Social & Environmental Impact with Web3 / Building for Good with G$ Episode 2 - Reimagining DAO Governance: Inside GoodDAO's Journey to a Community-Led Future

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Building for Good with G$ Episode 2 - Reimagining DAO Governance: Inside GoodDAO's Journey to a Community-Led Future · Crypto Altruists: Real-World Stories of Social & Environmental Impact with Web3

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today you'll discover why GoodDollar is rebuilding its governance from the ground up and why they chose to do so in the middle of a bear market.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: How Kogo of a collaborative governance hackathon invited the community to help design and build good DAO.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: How the new House of Alignment is changing the way Good DAO funds public goods and the G Dollar ecosystem.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And let's think about building a DAO that's healthy, sustainable, and community-led.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to CryptoAltrics, where we explore the intersections of Web3 and Social Good to the stories of impact-driven builders and offer actual insights to empower your journey into the world of blockchain for good.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Drew Simon.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now before we dive in, please remember that this is not financial or legal advice, and always do your own research on any of the projects or investment opportunities that we discussed.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Crypto Alters Podcast, and thanks so much for joining us today.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited for today because our episode is the second installment of our series, Building for Good with G Dollar, where we're exploring the people, projects, and communities that are powering the Good Dollar ecosystem.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you caught episode one, you'll remember we sat down with Riel, Marie, and Graven to chat about a big shift that's underway at GoodDollar.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as a quick recap, GoodDollar started with a focus on distributing G Dollar as universal basic income, but its vision has since grown into creating an open economy, where G Dollar circulates to builders, communities, and public goods.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We dug into Good Builders, the partnership with Flow State, and why streaming funds are a better way to fund public goods.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're turning to another part of the story.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Looking at the glue that holds it all together, and that of course is GoodDAO, their decentralized governance body.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: An open economy isn't just about moving money, it's about deciding together where that money goes, who gets a say, and how a community stays aligned with its mission as it grows.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something a lot of DAOs struggle with.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the result is often that DAO governance ends up as a handful of insiders voting on proposals most people never read.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And inevitably participation drops, power concentrates, and the aspirations for decentralization start to fade away.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: At a time when many DAOs were struggling, GoodDollar decided to take that challenge head on.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this year they launched what they've called a governance revision, where they sought to rebuild Good DAO from the ground up.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when they did it in the middle of a bear market, when a lot of projects were pulling back.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And rather than designing it all behind closed doors, they brought the community into the process, really embracing that concept of building in public.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: They ran CoGov, a collaborative governance hackathon, to co-create the future of the DAO, and they launched the House of Alignment, a new mechanism for allocating capital.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: To walk us through it all, I'm joined by Sam McCarthy, who's been leading this work on the revisioning of Good DAO.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about why community-centered governance matters so much to GoodDollar's Bigger Vision, what they learned by building it with the community, how all these new pieces fit together, and how you can get involved, whether you're a builder, a funder, or someone who's never touched a DAO in your life.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive in.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sam, thank you so much for being here today.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is a real privilege.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited for episode number two, where we're gonna really talk about governance and and the good DAO.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And can't wait for this conversation.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time coming.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for being here today and sharing your time.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you so much, Drew, for having me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh excited to be here.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is gonna be great.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna cover a lot of different things.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about kind of the uh the the restructure, if you will, of the good DAO, how it ties into the Good Builders program, which we've talked about already, how it ties into the kind of broader Good Dollar vision, uh the House of Alignment.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many cool things we're gonna talk about here.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd love to start with you and how you got into this space and how you found yourself uh working with GoodDollar.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me about your journey and um how you found your way to working with Good Dollar on on the governance and Good Dow.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um actually my first career, as I call it, uh was in uh traditional finance.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was just uh a risk management uh consultant for commercial banks uh in New York when I lived in New York City.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and over that time I found uh found crypto kind of by myself.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: This was back like 2016, 2017, so a long time ago now.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh didn't really uh start really jumping in full time until uh DeFi summer, for those who uh remember those glory days.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh it was just a natural entryway uh for me because the protocols themselves were financial protocols.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was kind of like a shared language, even though the tech was very new.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then, of course, the communities that were formed on top of them and the DAOs uh were very new as well.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it didn't take long for me to realize that it was actually not the financial tech that excited me so much, but actually the social layer that was built on top of these protocols that were governing these protocols.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when I uh eventually went back to school, I did a master's program here in London uh and I did all my independent research uh about DAOs and decentralized governance, um, and then uh made my way to a uh nonprofit research organization called DAO Star, uh, which has been in the DAO space for for quite some time now.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was actually through that project uh that I found and was connected to GoodDollar.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was initially a mentor in the Good Builders program uh and uh then was brought on to lead the redesign of the governance system for GoodDollar as well as the the DAO, the Good DAO.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot has changed since then, and we're gonna talk about all the different work you've been doing with the Good DAO.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just to kind of set a bit of uh of graph of uh the context here, uh in our first episode, we really explored uh Good Dollar's kind of bigger shift from being a project focused uh mostly entirely on on distributing uh G Dollar as UBI to kind of building more of an open economy around G Dollar, having the good builders be a part of that as well.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for listeners who are just joining us, can you set the stage?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where does governance fit into that bigger vision that GoodDollar has of building this kind of open economy around G Dollar?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so GoodDollar is best known for being a crypto UBI project and for dis distributing UBI uh as these G dollars or G tokens.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And recently, as as recent as when I was brought on about a year ago now, uh the overall vision for the Good Dollar project uh was uh expanding um and really expanding to include uh and ensure the sustainability of the economy that that Good Dollar wants to be building it uh on top of, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that this means that the the the G token itself isn't just being claimed in the UBI uh process, but also being used to power businesses, power companies, products, services as well.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that uh through that there is a you know more act economic activity uh that's created and more uh people and businesses are brought into the ecosystem.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So where governance comes into this kind of new mission, new objective for for good dollar is uh you know, for for me, you know, governance is all about making decisions.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think that uh when uh good dollar was just addressing you know UBI, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody can generally agree, I think, that giving money to people who need it is generally a good thing to be doing, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: However, the the the challenge now is you know creating a a sustainable economy on top of that core product, as it were, um exactly how you want to go about doing that, and the people and the the organizations that you bring into that ecosystem and choose to work with and choose to distribute your your the G token to.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's that's a bit more subjective.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a bit more challenging to like arrive at yes, this is exactly how we should be doing that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: With GoodDollar being just really like an inclusive project at its heart, just inherently inclusive due to the nature of the UBI system that it runs on.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um that means that we want the broader community to be as actively involved in making those types of decisions towards which projects we should be distributing money to, which projects we should be partnering with, you know, all these types of decisions to be able to achieve the new mission that GoodDollar has, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the governance system that we want to be designing is uh is the system that will enable the community to one participate most effectively, and then two, to be able to achieve those outcomes that we've laid out for ourselves.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious as to you know, kind of what started this idea for, as you've said, this governance, you know, revision, um, you know, essentially rebuilding uh good DAO in the middle of a challenging market as well.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um why take this on now?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: What was like the motivation from the Good Dollar side for and the Good Dollar community for initiating this kind of uh revision, if you will?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the good DAO has been around for way before my time at GoodDollar, um and actually you know can be considered quite an OG.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Good Dollar in general is quite an OG project at this at this point in in crypto years, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been around for several years, more than several years.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the good DAO has been uh you know active and alive that entire time.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it runs on the good token, which is actually actually separate from the the G token that powers the UBI uh ecosystem and then comes from the protocol.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the good token was designed, I think, with very strong principles to start.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really designed early on to distribute control uh to the DAO, to the members of the community that wanted to participate in the DAO.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: The good token itself was issued as a result of uh staking um your good dollars, and you would receive uh good tokens uh back.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they so they were very easily accessible to anyone who was participating or receiving UBI in some uh shape or form in the good dollar ecosystem.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they were also non-transferable.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like you could trade good tokens and in that way uh you know attempting to be less of a plutocratic uh system as we've seen across the DAO space, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like not necessarily attaching market value to the level of control that you will have in the DAO.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, this ran for several years, and there were some very, very obvious challenges that were facing the DAO when uh I you know first started.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, this is uh definitely one is is the dominance of Good Labs uh in the proposal initiation creation process, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So like most of the proposals that were coming were coming from from Good Labs rather than from, let's say, the broader DAO uh participants or the broader community.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this kind of creates a natural centralization concerns of power, you know, of power that's uh that Good Labs has in the DAO and in the direction of the of the ecosystem of the protocol.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was also token holder concentration.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even though the good token was not transferable, uh there was still a natural concentration of just large G token holders who were staking and uh you know aggregating their good tokens and their governance power.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, there was a lack of general structural and procedural clarity.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: People were a little unsure of, okay, if I want to go spend my time and participate in the DAO, like how would I effectively do that?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um these are not new stories, I'm sure, to your audience, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, this is something that, you know, these are challenges that have played out many, many times across the DAO space since inception.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's nothing unique to Good Dollar, I would say.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so given these challenges uh combined with the new uh mission that was that was laid out for Good Dollar, and then how the DAO can support that, um, it was just natural that uh, you know, it was it was time, let's say, to revisit the governance system and how we're thinking about driving broader community participation and how to more effectively structure this system to come uh up with uh ultimately better outcomes, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what we want to be designing the system for.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be helping the good dollar ecosystem achieve its uh achieve its goals and create the biggest uh and largest amount of impact that it can.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and and that's that's great context to have as we kind of jump into some of the different initiatives that have been launched, you know, as part of this revision.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of them that's really cool is Koga, which is a governance hackathon uh within the Good Dollar community.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you tell me a little bit more about that and and how it went?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so after uh my the first kind of you know couple months at Good Dollar was spent kind of just like getting a handle uh around how things worked, um, you know, figuring out how I wanted to proceed with this with this redesign.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the first initiative that was actually implemented uh together with the community was CoGov, which stood for collaborative governance, um, and was exactly that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh organized as a structured community hackathon to address the long-standing challenges that I just kind of went through with the purpose of co-designing with the community a more sustainable, engaging governance system that essentially was capable of expanding the DAO's role to encompass this new mission that we've been talking about.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my thesis in creating this and and and using this as like a tool, right, uh was quite simple.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that people, in order to participate in governance, I mean participate in really anything, but like specifically governance, where which takes a lot of uh energy, you you put your voice out there, you you want to actually feel like your voice is being heard and that your participation actually matters.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um my thinking was like, what is more uh impactful than being able to get in on the ground floor and help us redesign this governance system from very first principles?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so when people show up for that kind of assignment, I do feel like they show up a little bit differently.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: They engage more, uh, they bring uh a lot of energy with them.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then hopefully, my hope was that we would create kind of like this, you know, initial core group of very highly engaged individuals who felt like they had a stake in the governance system.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm not just talking about like the typical skin in the game that people like to talk about in crypto, which is you know purely financial, uh, but a stake in that they actually had a hand in creating the the foundations on which this system was eventually going to run.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that was kind of I would say the meta uh objective of CoGov, but certainly the more important one.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the uh the real objective was to co-design this governance system with the community, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I don't know how much detail you want to go in about like the actual structure of uh of the hackathon.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I will say that I posted a retrospective report on the governance forum, uh, which goes into the whole structure and the key findings and and you know how those findings were eventually used in the future initiatives, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a little bit here.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I highly recommend if people are interested in what the outcomes were and how uh a governance hackathon uh like this can be structured, I would you know direct them to the governance forum to check it out for themselves.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's great.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's super helpful.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think one thing that you said there that I want to go back to quickly is you mentioned how a lot of times we think about having skin in the game.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: We think financial.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned how it's like having skin in the game of like building the foundation of the DAO that I think is really cool.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been researching DAOs for some time in your work with DAO star.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: What if maybe high level, were there any surprises uh that you found when kind of taking this different approach to building a DAO?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it certainly always surprises me when you're you know actually performing this type of role in a project, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like a governance type role, which typically people don't get super excited to do.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've seen, you know, just across DAOs, right, like participation rates just absolutely uh, you know, at the floor.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so people typically don't get super excited about uh you know participating.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I I will say that when you have, like when you structure or give people the opportunity to have like an uh an outsized role in in these types of systems, and particularly a system like good dollar, which is a nonprofit.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not about just like number go up and like the typical crypto, uh, okay, you know, everybody's gonna get rich together type of uh type of vibe.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do think that it it does attract uh a slightly different type of person, one who might just inherently be more motivated to participate in governance because of their connection with the with the mission or or the values of the project.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it always does surprise me when you're you're actually performing these types of uh you know, these types of processes, these types of like getting your hands uh a little bit dirty, let's say, with uh with the redesigning governance systems, but also just actually performing the operations of said systems, the energy and the excitement with which people do bring to uh you know these things and these exercises.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, going through Kogov, it wasn't just about uh, you know, let's increase the participation of you know this core group of people who we want to continue participating in this, even though I I was just saying like that was a very primary objective, of course.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it was no, like I know that these participants also have very valuable ideas to share and something that I want to be able to kind of get out of them, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I can so they can help me to build the best uh uh DAO and and like system uh that will enable them to best participate in the future and that will create the most impact for for them and then like the people or communities that they are a part of as well, which certainly ties into the grander narrative where Good Dollar really wants to be reaching those aligned communities and starting to bring them into the Good Dollar uh ecosystem.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I yeah, just like the energy and the impact that people can have when you give them an opportunity to have their voice truly heard in an ecosystem that they are motivated to participate in, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I mean it's a it's a wonderful thing to see.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we can go back and forth on you know why this hasn't worked in some DAOs, why it has worked in others.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um ultimately, you know, that's kind of what excited me initially about DAOs.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, it's uh it's about this openness and and the positive externalities that come from opening your decision-making process to a broader group of stakeholders and the kind of magic that can come from that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could definitely see that and um yeah, and seeing the folks that uh that that brings to the table that are you know really excited about governance and what it can become, and you know, hopefully that's translated to continued engagement as well, uh, kind of throughout.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know another piece of this, uh, in addition to the sorry, the coGov uh initiative that you launched is the House of Alignment, uh, which I think is super cool.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new capital allocation mechanism.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um can you walk us through what it is, kind of the problem it looks to solve, and how it ties into the broader good dollar ecosystem?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So the House of Alignment was the uh first uh was the first implementation following CoGov that tied directly to, so speaking about the effectiveness of the collaborative governance process that was and the co-design process that was CoGov, uh the House of Alignment was a concept that was born from that hackathon, right, with the community.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the core ideas that came out of CoGov was treating uh good DAO as a uh capital allocation vehicle that is able to distribute its resources through both the protocol as well as the DAO's treasury uh to create um what I was, you know, I had termed at the time like a network uh incentive uh system or sorry, a network alignment system, but basically just being able to distribute resources in a way that that ties meaningfully aligned projects together.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um one line I I always come like come back to um in in this kind of uh, you know, like that that is driving uh this kind of uh structure is that uh financial inclusion, uh that collaboration between, sorry, collaboration between aligned projects is key to scaling financial inclusion.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the House of Alignment is this new mechanism that uh will enable the distribution of resources that are governed by the Dow uh to a network of aligned projects.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I I'll start it the way that it that it It exists today, and then I can explain kind of like where we're seeing it in the future.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So today it is funded by Good Labs.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of this initial pilot experimental program that is distributing good tokens to the uh a you know a uh uh member projects, uh projects that are a member of the House of Alignment.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um we are just about ready to launch this pilot.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and essentially I I I modeled this system, I took uh inspiration from a couple pieces.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh if you're I'm assuming your your audience is probably familiar with uh the Bread Cooperative, um they have uh a solidarity fund um that I took a lot of pieces from.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um but basically using shared resources, so which in the case for good uh good dollar and good DAO is the the protocol reserve, right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is earning yield on top of the assets that are uh that are housed inside the reserve and using that yield to distribute them to uh a selection of projects.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the Brad Co-op has the I I don't know, seven, eight projects that are in the Solidarity Fund.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going to have four projects to start out with in the House of Alignment.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um however, one thing that significantly differs with the House of Alignment is that these funds uh they're not meant to necessarily just go and stay in the treasuries of these projects or just be sold to fund, let's say, like operational expenses or you know, just like to stay with the project itself.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's in fact these funds are meant to then be redistributed uh by the projects themselves to their own users and communities in order to fund their own growth.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think I took inspiration from there was a cello uh grant program um, you know, a year or two ago that it was structured similarly, where the cello that was distributed had to be redistributed as like uh protocol growth or incentives or you know, so things like that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not just necessarily to grow these projects, even though that's certainly kind of like a cycle that we want to promote, but it's also to redistribute these good tokens to communities who in line with our UBI mission to communities who need them the most.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so of course these projects, as the name implies, need to be aligned with the with the good dollar mission.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then in a way that is different than the typical UBI claiming process where we don't want these good tokens to just be claimed and then uh exchanged for stable coins or you know what have you, but in fact to circulate throughout this larger economy that we're creating through uh the House of Alignment, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are kind of the KPIs or the objectives that we want to be reaching through this program, where we're seeing how the good token is redistributed and circulating and actually creating more demand, hopefully, for for the token itself because of the adoption that it uh that you know it's created through this uh through the program.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like the high high-level overview.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will say another purpose of the House of Alignment, it's meant to be uh one of two houses in the future uh DAO uh that is currently being you know redesigned.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the projects that are involved with the House of Alignment, of course, we also want to use this as a way to further create that core group of uh aligned participants uh who are just motivated inherently by uh to to grow and uh promote and advance the good dollar uh ecosystem and economy.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that means like actively participating in governance themselves, of course.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's also you know of a primary objective of this, and of course, you know, ties into uh the you know the the ways that I want to promote engagement, increase engagement across the DAO uh more broadly.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really cool how these are all kind of like connected to one another and like supporting each of these different so the you know House of Alignment is supporting great projects, but then also kind of like encouraging governance.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's really cool how they're all tied together as kind of part of this you know broader ecosystem.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that another piece of it that you recently uh announced was the Treasury Committee to activate the Good Dow Treasury.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about this and kind of how this aligns with the House of Alignment uh as well and how that all kind of comes together.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll say like you know, the Treasury Committee is uh a bit more standard, maybe a little bit less exotic than the House of Alignment.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um the basically uh the Good Dow has had a you know a treasury uh since inception of the protocol.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so 10% of the UBI that is issued by the protocol um uh automatically goes to goes to the DAO and goes to the DAO's treasury.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: That treasury has never been activated.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just been accruing this uh this 10% um from the protocol uh ever since it was created.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I want to say that that already puts the good DAO, I would say, you know, uh far ahead of a lot of other DAOs in terms of value accrual mechanisms uh from the core protocol, right?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: The core product of Good Dollar, um, which is one of the things that excites me about finally getting to uh you know figure out how we want to activate this treasury.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically the the committee, I'm bringing on two uh founding members of the committee that I will say today were chosen by myself and the Good Labs team.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: However, this is definitely going to be in the spirit of uh more progressive decentralization.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: While we need to, the first iteration I will say of the Treasury Committee will not be uh tasked with allocating any uh capital just yet, but actually creating some of the foundational frameworks and infrastructure that we need to allocate money in a safe, uh, you know, relatively less risky way, but also a sustainable way.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, we're gonna be bringing on two founding members to help us uh create uh those foundations.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean, super excited to to see what uh we we come up with.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll I'll actually be announcing uh who those members will be in uh probably next week already.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um we'll be onboarding them very soon.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this is something that's happening uh right now.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, very happy, like very excited uh with the direction uh that they can take not only the Treasury but also the Dow because you know, still figuring out how best to allocate our shared resources while also um aggregating the um the uh decisions of the of the wider community.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I I think that there's a lot of potential here.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I I I spoke about the already built-in value accrual mechanism that exists for the Dow Treasury, um, but also just considering the the the distribution that that good dollar has and um yeah, the the different ways that we can that we can spend these resources.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's really awesome seeing this like kind of grow and happen in real time and seeing you know the results and experimentation happen in real time.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait to see you know how these all go when they uh kind of come together to form uh what seems like a really cool opportunity.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll preface this by saying like when I think of DAOs, I think a lot of them sometimes can be more of like a rubber stamp kind of body, uh, you know, in some cases where it's more just kind of like voting to approve things.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but beyond that, they don't have too much other involvement.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: To what I'm seeing with good DAO, which has like all these different mechanisms, it's it has co-gov, it has House of Alignment, it has the Treasury Committee, and then it has you know things like the good builders that are a part of the broader ecosystem as well.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's creating more of like a living governance ecosystem as opposed to just kind of a voting body, which I think is so cool.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of the reasons that many DAOs struggle is just that lack of opportunities for like engagement and to be a part of something bigger.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's something that I really love about what you're doing here is you know, making it something bigger that people can do more than just vote.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: They can actually be a part of really shaping it and and and building it out and you know, determining how funds are used.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really cool.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so that said, I'm curious what your thoughts are on this and on this take of mine.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and what does a healthy kind of active DAO look like to you?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And do you see good DAO kind of getting there?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what does a healthy DAO look like?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I think it's at least from my perspective, in terms of like, you know, looking at the design of these things, it's it's definitely creating uh meaningful ways for parts uh for people to contribute.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a lot of times uh the you know, DAOs definitely suffered from structurelessness, right?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um being open, yes, and allowing people to come into whatever digital forum they were you know hosting.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, people would get there and be like, you know, what do I do now?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll just like message in the Discord, but then I'll disappear.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um that you know repeated itself in many different forms, of course, but without meaningful pathways to contribute, while also being able to, one, feel like your voice is heard, like I mentioned in the in the beginning, but also being able to benefit as well.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, benefit certainly can include financial rewards.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do think that DAOs need to compensate people meaningfully for the value that they're creating, but also in a structured, predictable way, not just, oh, if you know, uh in a uh ad hoc kind of, you know, if you do this one task or this one bounty, then we'll pay you.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no actual uh meaningful way to uh to you know make that a more permanent, uh more permanent uh path of confidence compensation, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, yeah, giving people a way to meaningfully contribute, to meaningfully uh be rewarded um in addition to financial rewards, also because of the nature of the Good Dow project or good dollar project, right, where it's a nonprofit, it's more of this social, uh like pro-social project rather than let's say uh a DeFi project that's you know uh a DEX or a lending protocol that really is about PL.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, good dollar is not that, but I also think that that is absolutely an opportunity to be able to attract the right type of person uh to uh to the governance of it, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: The people that are motivated by other uh means than just financial incentives to uh to participate.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think from a design perspective, that's kind of how I'm thinking about that question.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I hope that the pathways that I do put out there are actually received well by the community, and we are in fact able to attract the right people to the DAO.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: What it looks like, you know, it's hard to say, just you know, objectively speaking, oh, this is a you know a well-run DAO.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that of course we want to be able to, if we're re like revisioning ourselves as a uh a capital allocation network that we're distributing resources actively to meaningful uh like and aligned projects, like we want to see those outcomes happening, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think so often DAOs have been targeting the wrong outcomes, or I don't want to see say necessarily wrong outcomes, but targeting things like being the most decentralized or the most transparent, meanwhile, those are they're means, they're not necessarily ends.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, things that are the most decentralized and the most transparent aren't necessarily like the most inclusive.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, there's different ways that like uh more insidious power structures can be created inside these things, for instance.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, even though you know blockchains are fully transparent in terms of the transactions that are performed on top of them, just by by nature, that doesn't mean everybody's gonna go to Etherscan to go look at those transactions or even has a technical capability to interpret what they see there.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to design a system that is achieving actual outcomes, like what do we want to get out of a decentralized governance system, or what do we want to get out of a transparent governance system?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is, you know, for me, if you see that happening, and then that hopefully there's some sort of evaluation loop and you know, all the things that are that need to be happening to ensure that that organization is running uh well, and you know, putting an emphasis on the O and DAO, right?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is what I would think of as a healthy governance system.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not just governance just for showing up and and you know having like type typing some things into a form.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually making real decisions that have real uh positive outcomes.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one thing you mentioned as well there is around like bringing the right people into the DAO.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, some something that a lot of DAOs have struggled with, I'd say most DAOs probably is like, you know, inviting broader participation, participation from the community.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of DAO participants have been, you know, crypto native folks that are kind of deeply involved in other crypto ecosystems.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been sometimes difficult to get newcomers into DAOs.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them find it intimidating or don't really kind of get it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: But really, you're focused on bringing more people in and inviting that broader participation.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh talk to me about how the DAO, the Good Dollar community, you know, everyone, Good Labs, how you're all making it more accessible to newcomers, not just the crypto native crowd, so you can bring you know a wider body of folks into this ecosystem.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think uh one of the areas that Good Dollar has been most successful at is actually being people's first uh, or like the let's say an entryway for people into the Web3 uh space and and an introduction to uh Web3 technology, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like actually being their first interaction with this stuff.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do think that also by nature of what UBI is, like what the what what good dollar has has uh you know, the product it's created over the years, is it you know, it's inclusive by design.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like people are welcome to claim UBI.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the in terms of the DAO, like welcome to participate in many of the same ways that like other DAOs have have welcomed people's participation.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I will say, as part of this this question as well, of course, we've seen some issues with uh let's say the openness of DAOs, which you know, we I I I don't we don't need to uh rehash them.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's been uh years now that people have been talking about this type of stuff.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like where you know distributing tokens and then having these token holders vote on absolutely everything, you know, it's obviously not the right way to build an effective organization in the in the you know vein that I was just describing.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, the current model, or let's say the current predominant model of DAOs, like just flat out has not worked.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of my challenges is like, how do I balance these two things?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where uh you know, we want the governance system and the DAO of GoodDollar to match the inclusivity of the project and like the core value of inclusivity that that the project stands for, um, while also acknowledging the failures of so many organizations, so many DAOs across this space that have built out these open and you know so so-called inclusive uh systems that just flat out have failed in in a lot of different ways.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, you know, in in ways that just like completely ignore the O in organization where things just don't happen and things get lost in like governance limbo or you know, just endlessly endless discussions.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I I do think that that is a core challenge.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of welcoming newcomers, um of course, we maintain the core value of inclusivity, and that's actually will be um in terms of like a new uh design, a new implementation, will be announced very, very soon in terms of what I'm gonna be spending my time uh and and focus on, uh, is in terms of how do we actually welcome newcomers but in a structured, more productive way.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that the majority of my time thus far, as I I think much of this episode has has reflected, is building out the initial core group of aligned uh governance participants.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um that by no means means like closed, I but at the same time, it means that people that are committed to showing up and people that are committed uh to and aligned to the the mission of the DAO, which is you know really trying to promote the the growth of this of this good dollar economy.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, more more to come on on that as well.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you guys are making that like a central focus of ensuring that it is you know inclusive and um you know a strong operational DAO, but also one that invites broad participation.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I'm sure folks listening in, there's a lot that are really excited about this and you know, maybe interested in getting involved, whether they're you know list uh builders, funders, community members, just someone interested in you know participating in their first DAO.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: What is the best way for them to learn more and to start getting involved in good DAO?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I will say first and foremost, we're certainly looking for interested and aligned uh projects to join the the House of Alignment.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I will say I I know that uh you know your audience is certainly there's a lot of aligned individuals uh listening uh uh here that, you know, for sure I think would make excellent um projects members of the House of Alignment.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I will say if people are interested, uh certainly reach out.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I will give a, you know, at this point, yeah, I I think it'll be useful maybe to give one one tangible example.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh so a project I want to shout out is is Green Goods, um, who we have in uh in the first uh cohort of the House of Alignment.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and basically they've built a commitment pooling system.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for those who are not familiar with commitment pooling, I I don't think we have time to go uh go over the whole mechanism, but basically a uh a resource and um uh product and service kind of aggregation mechanism that people can uh transact not just in a single shared currency, but actually in these promises to perform certain services or to deliver certain products, things like that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And actually uh we'll be running good tokens through a commitment pooling uh system so that people can like use it as a unit of account, a shared unit of account in these in these systems.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think for me that is an excellent example of exactly the type of not only project, because Green Goods they do amazing work with like various communities in Nigeria, South America, Brazil, like real on-the-ground communities who will be hugely impacted with the with the resources that we're able to distribute to them, um, but also in building a uh a redistribution mechanism or strategy, a way to get good dollars out into the hands of these communities, and not just in the the way that they're being claimed and and exchanged for stable coins, but actually in a way that's driving economic activity on the back of it.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that I kind of wanted to share that example just for people who, you know, it may hopefully that makes that a little bit clearer in how these projects are showing up and participating in the House of Alignment.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, of course, if any of your listeners out there, I want to put that out first and foremost, I would love to hear from them and get them involved.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will also say that, of course, we're starting the you know, the Treasury Committee as we as we uh went over uh not too long ago.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: We will be looking for ways to to spend these treasury resources.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we're looking for people with on the ground knowledge of, you know, not only program management, but also just like connections with individuals, projects who would like to get involved in and help us grow our our economy, our good dollar economy here.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I will say people who are interested in that sort of thing, like of course, come reach out.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I I've put a most of my uh community communications updates um in the forum, in the governance forum, which I I I'm I'm sure we'll post a link to in the show notes.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely for additional context, you should find everything there in the forum.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you know, more to come as well.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: So just to stay posted on the progress of good dollar, but also yeah, good DAO.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah stay posted because uh yeah we we we welcome you know anyone who's uh aligned and and uh motivated to participate I would love to hear from you and uh you know find the best way for you to uh contribute.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely uh and again yeah definitely we'll include all those links in the show notes uh for sure and show it to Green Goods great project uh if anyone listening also wants to learn more about commitment pooling we had a great episode with uh grassroots economics so they can find that as well um some really it's just a fascinating concept that I think you know kind of Web3 tools really makes possible at scale which is great but that's a whole other conversation yes I will use this really quickly sorry to interrupt yeah no please um I I know we're we're nearing the end of the episode here and you know I you know shameless plug for you know how I'm feeling about the current state of uh you know DAOs of and but more crypto broadly I I really do believe that you know we are experiencing you know an inflection point here um where if your uh product or your service or your project generally speaking doesn't include the word either institution or stable coin or agent um that it has lost a lot of the mind share of people and a lot you know the mind share of uh you know where crypto is being taken, uh where this technology is being taken today.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know there was a time where crypto was you know born out of a desire to you know grow uh distribute control more broadly um to create digital sovereignty um and essentially create those types of radically new experiments and how value is created and how value is distributed in a way very much like grassroots economics and commitment pooling um those are the mechanisms that I think are absolutely fascinated and you know that I would hope that good dollar is able to um to boost and to grow through the resources that we do have.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean for me GoodDollar has like amazing assets in the the protocol reserve in the distribution like I said I mean in terms of individuals who have claimed UBI it's like close to a million over the years and you know never mind for like a refi or crypto for good project for any crypto project that is a big number.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have these real assets that I want to be able to to use to to revitalize some of this forgotten part of crypto and hopefully create uh you know like a shelling point for these types of projects and and become like an umbrella for you know public goods projects and and refi projects crypto for good projects whatever you want to call them um that's that's kind of my hope and uh it is a very crucial time I think for this um so I'm hoping that people who are listening you know certainly you know feel the motivation and and the desire to uh to join please come join us and uh yeah would love to see you know how we can uh help grow this part of crypto uh back again well said you know what Sam that's a perfect spot to end this interview on I was gonna ask you about like what keeps you motivated but I think that like you just you know said a lot of it right there you know and um you know I think you're spot on.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're at a really uh crucial inflection point and I really appreciate that uh the the work that you're doing with the Good DAO to make sure that you're you know building a really strong like positive community that can last through challenging times that can weather the storms if you will and um I'm really excited to be a part of it in some way by participating in the Good Builders program as a mentor and by doing this work just to help spread the word.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure you know I I definitely want to get involved more as I'm sure many listeners do as well.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: So again I will include everything they need to know in the show notes in terms of the different things we discussed today, the links to the forum, the retrospectives, those sorts of things.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sam, thank you so much.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation today.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed it and uh thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom today.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah thank you so much Drew really appreciate the platform to do so and yeah very very glad to be here.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thanks to Sam for joining me for a really thoughtful conversation and a perfect follow-up to where we left off in episode one there are many things that stuck with me from this conversation but I wanted to reflect on a couple things.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: The first is that sometimes big change is needed and that takes conviction in the case of GoodDollar it would have been easy to wait for better market conditions before rebuilding GoodDAO but I've always believed that bear markets are for builders and I think that they've proven that this is indeed the case.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: I also love the decision to build governance with the community rather than for it.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Kokov is a cool example of building in public and practicing what you preach and if you want a DAO that's really community center the design process has to be community centered too you can't hand people a finished system and expect them to feel ownership over it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: They need their hand in shaping it or else the participation ownership and interest will fade away and engage DAO together with the components of an open economy a way for community to decide what matters direct resources towards it and keep learning as it goes is a really exciting experiment and I can't wait to see how it goes.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll make sure to keep you updated as we keep going through this series as well and learning more about GoodDollar.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've been listening and thinking you know what I'd love to be a part of this but DAO governance feels intimidating.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope today showed you there's a place for you.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: There are many ways to get involved depending on where you're coming from if you're a project leader or a public goods organizer you can reach out to their team about joining the House of Alignment.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a mission aligned DAO operator or a member of the GoodDollar community go check out the ongoing proposals on the GoodDollar forum and keep an eye out for new opportunities to contribute to GoodDAO make sure to include all the links in the show notes including the governance forum and the proposals we discussed today.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: So head there and definitely I encourage you to get involved in whatever way you can a huge thank you to Sam for sharing his DAO journey with us today.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: And of course a big thanks to the GoodDollar team as well for supporting this revisioning and for really embracing this idea of building in the opening and that wraps up today's episode of CryptoUltruist thank you so much for tuning in I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you're inspired to explore more stories at the intersection of Web3 and Social Impact be sure to visit us at cryptoultruist.com for articles, resources and more and if you love what you've heard it would mean the world if you could rate your view and subscribe to the podcast.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Your support is huge in helping us reach more listeners like you and keeping the platform going strong.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for joining us and I look forward to having you back for the next episode.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Until then let's keep showing the world the good of crypto