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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: EXTENSIVE HIGHWAY SEARCHES UNDERWAY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: All of our hopes dashed last night when we learn
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: a guy has been taken in for detainment in the
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie case. We learned that the hostage unit is
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: on standby less than a mile away. That means the
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: hostage is nearby, right for our hopes to be dashed
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: when we wake up this morning and find out that
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: guy was released. He allegedly had nothing to do with
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. Also, as we go to air right now,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: another missive has been received.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: By t m Z thirty mile zone.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: This time the missive isn't the rat. They want to
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: rat out the rat. They are stating they can give
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the name of the per for one bitcoin to a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: bitcoin wallet. What is the bitcoin worth? Sixty six thousand dollars.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Also at this hour, we learned that the FBI is
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: combing the road side and they are in three locations Camble,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: they are in near.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: They are near Cello Tulsa north Ridge Estrata.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Those four places, not three, four all the Catalina foothills
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: and they are looking along the roadside. Why was something
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: tossed out of a car? A cell phone, a camera?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: That camera that was taken off Nancy Guthrie's front porch.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: What are they looking for? In addition to combing the
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Catalina Foothills near the roadside, the FBI has launched a
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: new search near Nancy Guthrie's home in the Catalina Foothills
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: north of Tucson. Good evening, I mean to see Grace.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: being with us. Dave mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: reporter Dave. I'm going to get to the searches that
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: are going on right now in the foothills of Catalina first,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: then we'll go through what happened last night. I see,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I've seen video footage of the FBI, and I believe
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: local law enforcement elsewhere combing the road sides.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Where are they They.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Are in the Catalina Foothills, just north of Tucson, Nancy.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: And by the way, they're not just in one location.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: They have spread hundreds okay plural hundreds of FBI and
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Sheriff's deputies are all over the area. They're searching roads,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: back roads, and they're not isolated to one specific area.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: They're covering all of it and they're looking specifically for
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  Speaker 3: evidence that could have been taught from a vehicle going
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: down the road, maybe a road that doesn't get a
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: lot of traffic in the foothills, and they are looking.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: They're going, you know what, there's so many people out there.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: They're asking anybody driving in those areas to be extra cautious.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: They're even warning media. I say they it's the FBI.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: The FBI Phoenix office has taken to x to point
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: out there are so many officials that are actually searching
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: this area. Be careful, get out of the way. They're
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: on foot looking for evidence.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Dancy Josh Colsrude joining us from this jurisdiction in Arizona,
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  Speaker 2: veteran criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, and founder of
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: the Colesrood Law Offices. Josh, exactly where would the Catalina
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Foothills be for those that are not familiar with Arizona.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, the Catalina Foothills are just outside of Tucson. It's
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: an affluent area. You know, I'm from Phoenix. We kind
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: of look at the Catalina Foothills as the Scottsdale of
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: the Tucson area. It's very nice, in a fairly large retirement.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Community and as Dave Max said, but it's all along
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: the roadways.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: So what are they looking for?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons joining us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security, their
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: specialty locating missing people at USPA security dot Com. Brian,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I think they're looking for something thrown out of a
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: window and is this desperate maybe or maybe they got
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: a tip.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: The number of tips has swollen.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: There's a surge of tips after Savannah Guthrie's last plea
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: for the public's help. Did somebody call in and say, hey,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I saw a guy throw what looked to be a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: cell phone out of.
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  Speaker 1: A car on that night. But what could they be
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  Speaker 1: looking for? Brian?
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  Speaker 2: And what does this mean that they're literally beating the bushes?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, bingo. There are two reasons that Larenforsman would be
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  Speaker 5: out there, and the first one you highlighted both of them.
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: The first one is, hey, they got a tip. Someone
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: in Tucson said, hey, I saw a suspicious vehicle parked
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: alongside of the road. Maybe there was a swap that
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: took place. A second vehicle came in, I saw something
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: and we want to go inspect that area and law
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: enforcements out there following up on that tip. The second
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  Speaker 5: reason is exactly what you said. Very often in criminal
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: activity they're gonna dump, you know, regardless of what crime
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  Speaker 5: it is, they're gonna dump that clothing or disguise, so
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  Speaker 5: it's not in a vehicle with them. So there's a
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  Speaker 5: very good chance that this is law enforcement doing exactly
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: what they told us they're doing, which is all the
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: blocking and tackling to do this the right way, and
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  Speaker 5: that's going to include covering those major roadways avenues of
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  Speaker 5: egress away from Miss Gustries house to see if there's
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: anything discarded along the road that now matches that video
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: we have from the crime scene.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: And Brianus Gibbons, you and I covered and investigated ourselves
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: the Delphi double murders of Abby and Libby, and if
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: you will recall, it came out in court and it
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: was really heartbreaking that a tip had been taken down
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the investigation, and that tip had
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: been translated incorrectly, and I believe that they reversed Richard Allen.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Or they reversed the name of the street.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: So all of this time when people were searching and
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: so much was happening trying to solve the case. It
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: was right under their noses, but the tip got screwed
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  Speaker 2: up and overlooked. There's so many citizen tips I always use.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: The Gabby Patito case is a great example of citizens
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  Speaker 2: Leuthe was looking for Gabby Patito in her white Ford transit.
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  Speaker 1: We now know that she and Brian Laundry.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Had been and what is called dispersed camping way way
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  Speaker 2: out in the wilderness, no porta potty, hook cups, no lights,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: no cell phone range. And there was a citizen who
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: had been following the story and they had the handle
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: red blue and methane, as I recall, and they spotted
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Gabby Potito's white Ford transit and out of the blue
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  Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere, they go, Hey, that could
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: be Gabby's Ford transit. They called it in Brian and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: law enforcement went out there. And if it had not
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: been for that citizen sleuth, we would never have found
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Gabby Potito's remains, and her parents would be wondering to
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: this day what happened to Gabby. The outcome wasn't good,
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  Speaker 2: but they know they have the knowledge of what happened
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: to Gabby. So did you know, Brian Fitzgibbons, that in
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  Speaker 2: the last twenty four hours, there have been four thousand
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: called tips called in. Before that, there had only been
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: eighteen hundred since Feb one. But once this video was released,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: let's play it again, Control room, please, this is what
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: is generating the calls and the tips. This and I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: want to see his face as best as we can,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that balaklava, that ski mask that he is wearing. This guy,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: this guy, if I could just get my hands on him. So,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons, you believe repeat what you think is the
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: reason they're out beating the bushes by the side of
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  Speaker 2: the road.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, first and foremost. Right as I said before, they're
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: doing everything they said. Law enforcement's doing everything they said
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: they would do, which is cover every base. And they're
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: gonna they're gonna search those avenues of egress away from
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: missus Guthrie's house. Uh, where you know this perpetrator, this
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: suspect who.
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  Speaker 6: Was at the door very well could have discarded uh
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  Speaker 6: some of that equipment or some of that clothing, uh
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  Speaker 6: to disguise his appearance after uh leaving the scene.
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  Speaker 5: So that's number one. I think that's just part of
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: the blocking and tackling.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, I want to follow up on that, Fitzgibbons, that's
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a really good thought.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Cole's rude. Let me tell you about a case I had.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: It was the first bank robbery I ever had, and
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the guy did just that. He came into the bank
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  Speaker 2: in a disguise. He was wearing a double breasted suit, dress,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: can't remember his shoes, hat, wig, aviator, darkened aviator, glasses,
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  Speaker 2: fake mustache, beard. He left with the and he had
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: as I called it, a breakaway suit. He had based
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: it up the back of it. We didn't have DNA.
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  Speaker 2: Yanked it off, took off the hat, took off the mustache,
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  Speaker 2: the whole wig, the whole thing, throw it down underneath.
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  Speaker 2: He was wearing a short sleeved shirt, a pair of shorts,
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  Speaker 2: athletic socks up to the knee. He got on a
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  Speaker 2: bicycle that was part beside the bike, part beside the bank.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Drove off on the bicycle and got away. He drove right.
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  Speaker 2: Past all of the ambulances and the police that were
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: racing to the scene, sirens blazing, rode right by them
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  Speaker 2: in a different outfit. Now look at this guy, Coles rude.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: He's clearly to me, it's clear he has on layers,
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  Speaker 2: layers he's about to bust out of the pants and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the jacket. Think that could be why.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Well, he's certainly being overly cautious by wearing the multiple
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: layers to prevent hair and DNA touch DNA from being
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: left at the crime scene. Now, I know, I look
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: at this from a different lens, Nancy. You know, before
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  Speaker 4: we had this video, you know, you had you know,
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  Speaker 4: the majority of the commentators saying that, you know, this
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  Speaker 4: looked like a professional hit job because of the success
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: so far with not being able to identify who did this. Now,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: what if you know they this person here is doing
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: this for our benefit to mislead us into thinking that
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  Speaker 4: it's somebody that it's not, or that it's a type
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  Speaker 4: of operation that it wasn't. So, you know, I'm kind
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  Speaker 4: of taking this with a grain of salt right now
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  Speaker 4: until we have some additional evidence to kind of lead
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  Speaker 4: us on the way.
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  Speaker 2: You're giving them a lot of credit when you said
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you can't just drop a bomb like that calls rude
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  Speaker 2: and not expect me to cross examine.
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean that the guy on the porch.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Is trying to mislead us to make us think it's
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  Speaker 2: something it's not. It's a kidnap of eighty four year
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  Speaker 2: old Nancy Guthrie. And he's such a bumbling idgit that
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: he tried to cover up the door cam with foliage,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: which is a real dichotomy with whoever wrote the ransom note,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: which was very well written.
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  Speaker 1: But what do you mean he's trying to make us
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: think it's something it's not. We already know what it is.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: It's kidnapp.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, there's kidnapping that is a dumb kidnapping
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: where people get caught, and then there's a professional kidnapping
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: where people don't get caught. Now, everything except for the
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: video has been done on a professional level, so this
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: video isn't congruent with the other things that had happened.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, this eighty four year old was kidnapped, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: there's a national manhunt for the people or person involved,
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: and we, at least as far as the public is concerned,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: know almost virtually nothing about what's going on, including finding Nancy.
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: So what I'm trying to say is, you know, we
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: don't know yet to attribute a motive. We don't know
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: yet if this is professional or not. But if somebody
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: later on a month ago a month from now said
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: that this was staged to you know, mislead us in
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: our investigation. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, now I see what you're saying, like make us
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: think it's a kidnap for ransom when really it's a
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: murder in order to get her inheritance.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Something that's just a theory of miss direction.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: To follow up and give an example of what you're
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: stating crime stories with Nancy Grace, A lot's happening right now.
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  Speaker 2: We now know that the FBI and local law enforcement
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is trying to identify the clothing, the backpack, the shoes,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: the battle claw of the ski mask, the gun.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: You name it very quick.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Dave Matt tell us about yet a third missive, this
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: one to TMZ that has gone down literally in the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: last hours.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It has Nancy.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: The shocking reality is that earlier today TMZ got another email. Now,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: this one is not from the actual kidnappers. This one
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: is from a rat promising to rat out the kidnappers
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: in exchange for one bitcoin. Now they will name who
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: the kidnapper is. And by the way, he's not saying
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: this person doesn't say plural. It's saying I will name
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: the kidnapper, one person singular in exchange for one Bitcoin
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: that costs about sixty six thousand dollars.
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: That's the offer.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: It's not the kidnapper, it is somebody who knows the
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: kidnapper offering to rat them out.
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: For the money.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, Straight out to Chris McDonough joining us to write
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: for the Cold Case Foundation for Morehamma. Side to detective
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: he's worked Oceanside, California. He's worked over three hundred homicides
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: in a twenty five year career. That's his expertise and
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: he is the star of the interview room on YouTube.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: What do you make of a rat ratting out a rat?
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Can he be believed? And does nobody understand Bitcoin can
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: be traced?
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: You put that wallet up there, throwing one hundred dollars
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the minute it is transferred out. Bam.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: The irs can do it, the DOJ can do it,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: the FBI can do it unless they move the money
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to a foreign country that has low or no bitcoin regulation.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: In other words, there's nothing for us to subpoena. There's
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: nothing there because there's no regulation. We can get him.
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, And remember that guy that used to send
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: the hey you're the heir of a Nigerian princh and
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: for a million dollars, we'll hold it that this is
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: just a bunch of noise that's going on around this thing.
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: What's what's really important here is right refocus back at
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: the house, and that's what the investigators are doing and
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: what you were talking about a little bit ago, Nancy,
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: on this search that's going on here. If they do
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: find a piece of clothing, one evidentiary tap or path
• 16:22
  Speaker 7: that they can go down is they can look at
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: that clothing and there's what they call an r N
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: number on the tags. If the clothing was manufactured overseas,
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: they're going to be able to get right down to
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: the cash register where that clothing was purchased.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, you got me at our N number, start right there, yeap.
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: So on our end number. And I actually had a
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: homicide where we pulled the r N number and we
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: found where the suspect could purchases clothing. What it is,
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: it's a Federal Trade Commission number and it's mandatory for
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: any kind of port clothing from overseas, and every piece
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: of clothing has it. Let's say, if it was made
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: you know in Indonesia or something to that effect. Well,
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: with that number, the Federal Trade Commission tracks the inventory
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: as it comes into the United States, and then the
• 17:17
  Speaker 7: distribution points as to where that particular clothing went, including backpacks.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Well, mcdona, you're brilliant. I just plugged in r IN number.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You can actually search the r IN database. There is
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: a an r IN data base. Wow, you had a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: case and you used the r IN database.
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: How Yeah, this well, the suspect pulled off his jacket
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: and he left it in a drainage ditch behind the
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: murder scene, and so we pulled that number, uh, through
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: the Federal Trade Commission, and we were able to find out,
• 17:58
  Speaker 7: you know, when the when the item was manufactured, who
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: the distributed, who the distributors were, and then we traced
• 18:05
  Speaker 7: it to a store in a mall nearby, and we
• 18:09
  Speaker 7: were able to go to that mall and pull the
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: h the purchase receipt of all of those types of jackets,
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: and then we had the credit card numbers, and we
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: just kind of, you know, through elimination, ended up with
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: our guide.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to interrupt you.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I understand it that far, but how did you get
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: it into evidence?
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 18:29
  Speaker 7: Easily. We just told showed him the chain of custody.
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: You know how we did it, and and the DA was.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Able to christ did you get him? Yes?
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: He actually it's yes, first degree murder during the commission
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: of a robbery. Yeah, and the victim was David Tabor. Yeah,
• 18:50
  Speaker 7: it was three. It was three nationals by the way,
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: from over the.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Border or in number.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: That's amazing in our to try and figure out. And
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you you did this as local law enforcement.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: No telling what the FBI can do.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Because let me just throw this at you. Everyone was wondering.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: How did they get the images off the front porch.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Let's just let's just drink them in for another moment
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: because this is a big, huge break.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, where did they come from? This is how it
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: went down.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And Brian Fitzgibbons jump in if I've got anything wrong
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: or you too, Cols rude. This is what happened. You
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: can see up at the top right it says Nest.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: That's Nancy Guthrie's camera system through Nest.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Nest is part of Google.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: We know Nancy did not have a subscription, so the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: video wasn't kept.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: How did we get the video? It was gone well.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Cast cast analysis survey team used all of their efforts
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and they reached Google and they then mined Google's vast, vast.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Inventory their data.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, think of Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Arc,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: where you find out the arc of the Covenant. That's
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the Lost Arc. The arc of the Covenant that holds
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: the Ten Commandments.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Is way, way way at the end of a long,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: long aisle, floor to ceiling in a dustrial box, never
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to be seen again.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So that's what it's like to go into Google's database
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: or their archives.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: But the FBI did it. They went through all.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Of that data and they find Nancy Guthrie's door cam
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and they resurrect this.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Power to the FEDS.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Chris mcdonnaugh, you saw that case with
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: the RN number off a jacket down a dream pipe.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: What can they do?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Now Here is our sad but earnest effort. Let's see
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: what our staffers at Crime Stories.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Came up with.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: We were looking for that very unique ski mask or
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: since it comes down over the neck of Bola clava,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: it's got unique stitching around the eyes. The nose is
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: not shown, just that hole for the mouth and you
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: have the vertical ribs gray in color. Walmart, I guarantee
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: you somebody somewhere is doing this right now, Let's look
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: at the jacket.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: The jacket has.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: A very unique zip down the front. Now remember in
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: the lighting where the purp actually.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Is is not true. It's not a true depiction.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: So they're gonna have to figure out was this I'm
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: seeing all sorts of transformations online.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Is this real? What color was it?
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: They could probably pick out what size it is. The
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: zipper is reflective, so that's what we know about that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Again, Walmart, that'd be.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: The first place I would look, the local Walmart because
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: we believe this guy is from Tucson. Why his affinity
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: with kg U N and k O L D. Also,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: he's a guy that goes to TMZ. Who goes to TMZ.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: There is a very specific group a demographic that reads TMZ,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I do who else does? Look at the backpack? What
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: can we learn from the backpack? And it's crammed to
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: the brim. He is not going in to take anything out.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: He's not in for a robbery or a burglary. He's
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: taking something in for Pete's sake.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Let's see the other.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Side, which I find to be very very demonstrative. The
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: two light look on either shoulder. You can see the
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: light reflectors. That's what they're looking for, an adult sized
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: backpack with these light reflect reflectors, those shoulder patches he's
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: got on his chest. They're looking for the ballaklava. They're
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: looking for the jacket, they're looking for the backpack. The
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: gloves at first, that like Boxer's gloves. Is he wearing
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: multiple layers?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: That said, we.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Understand that that is being done right now, Okay, what
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: do you think about that, Fitzgibbons.
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: No, you're absolutely right, Nancy, And they're you know, so
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: far as analyzing this video even further. They are breaking
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: apart every single pixel around that mouth and those eyes
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: on every exposed piece behind that mask. Now, obviously it's
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: an uphill battle for whatever softwares and whatever abilities the
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: FBI has, But they've already surprised us one time with
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: recovering this video. I wouldn't be surprised if they if
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: they did again.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Fitz Gibbons is actually joining us from a Saine he
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: is working so fits. Before you sign off, can I
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: talk to you about facial recognition because from that video
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: the FBI can determine, and local law enforcement can do.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: This as well. It's not magic, it's not genius. They
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: can look at this.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: They can measure the length the height of the stones
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: in Nancy Guthrie's porch, on our porch when he first
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: walks in, when he first steps up on that step,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and they can determine his height, probably down to about
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: an inch.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see him walk up the porch. Here we go.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: He's got his head down. That's not helpful.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Keep going right there, right there when he was walking
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: up and held his head up. Also, you can even
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: get the size of this guy's shoe when he's stepping
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: on those tiles. There's one where he steps directly in
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the tile where he can get
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a shoe size has already been estimated to be a
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: size twelve. His height has been estimated between five eleven
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: and six feet.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. Facial recognition, it's.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Used at air porch, It's used by people that already
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: have clear to get on to planes. Is used by
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: pass quick lines, my global entry. All sorts of facial
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: recognition is already out there. I mean, look at your
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: iPhone for Pete's sake. That's facial recognition. So we need
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the distance between his eyes from the inner part of
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the eyes to each other, from the outer part of
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the eyes to each other, the length of the nose,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the width of the face cheek bone to cheekbone, the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: link of the.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Face forehead to chin, and the size of the head.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Brian has gibbons. Can they do it?
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: I think they have an uphill battle to identify a
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: suspects from these images in this video. However, what they
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: are going to get to and these are things that
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: you just highlighted, They're going to have these measurements about
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: the eyes, about the mouth, the height, the shoe size
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: that when they do have a suspect, when they're able,
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: they're going to be able to use this video to
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: confirm that suspect. So it is valuable they're going to
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: go through this exercise and that exercise will turn out
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: to be valuable. What we're missing here is ratio's distance
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: between the eyes eyebrows ten to those You know, these
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: ratios are going to come together on any software for
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: it to actually make that ID, and with that mask,
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: we're obviously missing this. So we're dependent on all the
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: other things, body language, height, shoe size, you know, rough weight,
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: and things like that.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Joining us now you know her well.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Janine Driver, body language expert CEO of the Body Language Institute.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: She is a New York Times best selling author of
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You Say More Than You Think and.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You Can't Lie to Me.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: She's a host of a podcast, a hit podcast called
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in the Driver's Seat with Janine Driver.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Janine, thank you for being with us. So many things
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: to add.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: I'd like to get to the guy that was caught
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: and released, but right now he's not a player in
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: this scenario. I want you to look instead at the guy,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the known perp on Nancy Guthrie's porch.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: What can you tell me?
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: All right, Nancy and listener at home, viewer at home.
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: What the police are looking for, most likely right now
• 28:23
  Speaker 8: is does this man look familiar to you? The way
• 28:25
  Speaker 8: he is moving? We have what's called movement DNA. Look
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: as he walks out here. If you've ever been in
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: a grocery store and you're like, wait a minute, is
• 28:32
  Speaker 8: that my sister, Or in a movie theater and someone
• 28:34
  Speaker 8: walk by you like, wait a minute, is that my neighbor,
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: it's we all have movement DNA.
• 28:39
  Speaker 9: There are about nine billion people on the planet.
• 28:41
  Speaker 8: There are thirty six billion different ways we can move
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: our bodies that connect to how we make decisions. This
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: man when walking, if you look at him and you
• 28:50
  Speaker 8: think he looks like my neighbor, he looks like my cousin,
• 28:53
  Speaker 8: my former presitter. This looks my basketball player that I
• 28:57
  Speaker 8: used to coach in high school. Telling you you're in
• 29:00
  Speaker 8: probably picks up on that movement. DNA before someone speaks,
• 29:03
  Speaker 8: before we see their face. The fact that we can
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: see his body moved despite having a mask is incredibly
• 29:09
  Speaker 8: valuable to us. There are thirty six billion different ways
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: we move our bodies that connect to how we make
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: decisions and process information. If you have a vibe, look
• 29:19
  Speaker 8: how he tilted to his left right here when he
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: walked up the stairs. If you know someone who angles
• 29:24
  Speaker 8: more to their left when they're standing when they're thinking,
• 29:27
  Speaker 8: these are our evaluators. These people tend to stand at
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: a diagonals. It's like the scale of justice. These are
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: the people who like a system. This is most likely
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: a man who has created a system before he did this.
• 29:40
  Speaker 8: So if you're looking at this movement, I have a
• 29:42
  Speaker 8: funny feeling police have given us this so you can
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: say I can't put my finger on it, but I
• 29:47
  Speaker 8: just feel like some reason this looks like blank.
• 29:50
  Speaker 9: Who I know? Please call the number Nancy's going to
• 29:53
  Speaker 9: give you. Please let the police know. No.
• 29:55
  Speaker 8: Tip is not unvaluable to us at this point. We
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: want to get Meancy Guthrie Holmes. So look at the movement.
• 30:02
  Speaker 8: Pay attention to that slant. Look how he walked down
• 30:05
  Speaker 8: that step off the porch. Does that ring true to you?
• 30:08
  Speaker 9: Think about it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 8: When I have three sons, when they walk in before
• 30:13
  Speaker 8: I can even see them, I can hear is that Jack?
• 30:16
  Speaker 9: Jack?
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: Is that you?
• 30:17
  Speaker 9: Charlie?
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: Is that you?
• 30:18
  Speaker 9: Angus? Is that you?
• 30:20
  Speaker 8: Why the way we move? We have movement DNA. It
• 30:23
  Speaker 8: is a behavioral fingerprint. Look at this, just like a
• 30:27
  Speaker 8: fingerprint on our thumb. Does this behavioral fingerprint seem familiar
• 30:31
  Speaker 8: to you? If it does, and let us know.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: It's a mean driver or the author of you say
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: more than you think. I'd also like you to take
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: a look at the siblings our friend Savannah that I
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: worked with at Court TV, her sister Annie and the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: brother Cameron. What do you see? A lot has been
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: made of their nonverbal behavior online.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You're the expert.
• 30:55
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I think a lot of people are tearing apart Annie,
• 30:57
  Speaker 8: because we're not hearing much from her. And I want
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: to express to you how we look at people who
• 31:03
  Speaker 8: grieve in the movies is not what's happening here. This
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: has been over a week my mother died. I'm the
• 31:08
  Speaker 8: matriarchy of my family. I'm the oldest of three. I
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: didn't lose my pool until literally at her graveside when
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: they played the song time to Say Goodbye, I collapsed forward.
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: That was six or seven days after month passed. These people,
• 31:23
  Speaker 8: this family, the Gout three family, are exhausted.
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: They're up all night. When we judge.
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: People's behavior, like we're judging the Gut three kids here right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: I want you to stop and think, do I have
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: a bias because we watched so many movies, Nancy, we
• 31:37
  Speaker 8: have a grieving bias. When I weigh in on cases,
• 31:40
  Speaker 8: whether it was Judge Kavanaugh versus you know, doctor Ford
• 31:44
  Speaker 8: back in the day, I stop and say, first, Jeanine,
• 31:47
  Speaker 8: what's my bias? My bias is I had I was
• 31:49
  Speaker 8: blessed as a kid, and I didn't remember all the
• 31:51
  Speaker 8: details like doctor Ford didn't remember all the details. I'm
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: a mother of three sons. I don't want my three
• 31:57
  Speaker 8: sons being found guilty before we even.
• 31:59
  Speaker 9: Hear what the the person has to say. So I
• 32:01
  Speaker 9: have a bias here.
• 32:02
  Speaker 8: When we can name our bias, we can make smarter decisions.
• 32:06
  Speaker 8: So for the people who are giving the gut three
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: kids a hard time, especially Annie, just stop.
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: Do you have a quiet or sibling. You're someone else.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: You see as a body language expert. What are you
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: reading from their behavior? This is what you do for
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: a living. You're a New York Times bestseller about this?
• 32:24
  Speaker 8: Look at Savannah right. I've been interviewed by her. She's
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: a good friend of yours. She normally soon stands up
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: and sits up straight. She's very poised. She here is
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: leaning forward. We often see this with the family member
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: that feels like I'm responsible to save the situation.
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: When we put our.
• 32:39
  Speaker 8: Face forward like this, it says I am paying attention
• 32:42
  Speaker 8: to you, pay attention to me. I'm hearing what you
• 32:44
  Speaker 8: have to say when we show our whole body. Now
• 32:48
  Speaker 8: I'm being pulled back. What Savannah is saying is I'm
• 32:51
  Speaker 8: taking this seriously.
• 32:52
  Speaker 9: Listen to me. She uses very special language.
• 32:54
  Speaker 8: Her body language is congruent with someone who is present.
• 32:58
  Speaker 8: Her siblings, Karen and Annie are also They're grieving their
• 33:02
  Speaker 8: body language. Annie's looking down emotional look at you see
• 33:05
  Speaker 8: sadness in the chin Sandnus is one of the hardest
• 33:08
  Speaker 8: emotions to fake. We see it on Annie's face right here.
• 33:11
  Speaker 8: What we don't see if they were involved in any
• 33:13
  Speaker 8: way and knew what was going on, would be contempt, Nancy,
• 33:16
  Speaker 8: So I appreciate you calling me back to body language.
• 33:19
  Speaker 8: Contempt is this It's one smirk on one side of
• 33:21
  Speaker 8: our fifth Bernie made all fit it. We had a
• 33:24
  Speaker 8: former vice president of the United States doing this move
• 33:26
  Speaker 8: a lot. This is moral superiority. There's seven emotions that
• 33:30
  Speaker 8: we all have. Seven I did the wrong number, and happiness,
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: sadness for your surprise, anger, contempt, and discuss. Contempt shows
• 33:38
  Speaker 8: up when someone is keeping a secret and they know
• 33:41
  Speaker 8: something they're not revealing. Every single person that we have
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: talked about with you, Nancy, over the years that said
• 33:47
  Speaker 8: they had a missing loved one that then ended up
• 33:49
  Speaker 8: being arrested for killing that person.
• 33:52
  Speaker 9: Every single one from Scott.
• 33:53
  Speaker 8: Peterson to Chris Watts to you name the Jody Arius
• 33:57
  Speaker 8: leaked contempt. In these moments. We're not seeing it here,
• 34:01
  Speaker 8: and we're not seeing smiling. Well, look at Chris wats
• 34:03
  Speaker 8: when you did it hit his big, huge video when
• 34:06
  Speaker 8: my wife and kids are missing, Shanina and Celesti Bella.
• 34:09
  Speaker 9: He's smiling. Where was fear and sadness? Here? We have
• 34:12
  Speaker 9: fear and sadness. This is Greek.
• 34:14
  Speaker 8: This is a family who is exhausted holding it together
• 34:19
  Speaker 8: the best they can.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So we've got searches going down right now on the
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: side of the road. We have searches going down around
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood right now as we go to air.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: The good news is Dave mac I did not see
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: any cadaver dogs.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: No, they're actually looking for evidence they believe was tossed out. Now,
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier about how you had a case where
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: the person wore other clothing and got rid of it. Well,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: looked at this video and you can tell those gloves
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: he's double wearing gloves, Nancy, those things are so tight.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Other parts of the clothing looks really tight too. Obviously,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: it seems obvious he could possibly have been tossing his stuff.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: But you know what, Nancy, they're not just in the
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: foothills outside of Nancy Guthrie's house. They are also searching
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Rio Rico. I'm talking about the FBI and the Sheriff's deputies.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: They're still searching around Rio Rico. Last night where we
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: had the person pulled over, we had them searching houses,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: his garage. Well, they're still searching down there, Nancy. We
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: can't leave that out. They're searching roadways, and that's.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Telling me something, Dave Mac Chris McDonough, that's another search
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: happening right now. That tells me that's part of the
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: reason they pulled that guy over. Let's take a listen
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: to the guy pulled over last night.
• 35:54
  Speaker 8: They helped me against one will remember rising some two
• 35:57
  Speaker 8: hours later.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know that is Carlos Palezuela's He is a
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: delivery driver for GLS and door Dash.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: That tells me something.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Chris mcdonna, it's not just him, it's the location. That
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: location they're out there searching. They were interested in him
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: because he loosely fit the description and the location.
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, and that may give us an insight into the
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: FEDS may have some type of digital footprint somewhere. Uh,
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: and they're chasing that footprint. But what it also adds
• 36:41
  Speaker 7: is there's a vehicle in play here. And when you
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: see the suspect walking up to the porch, he comes
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: from the area of the driveway when he first walks up,
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: and his head's down, so everything's about identity right there
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: for him. But he's coming from the area of the
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: driveway when what looks to the left, he's actually looking
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: through the gloe as portion of the exterior door to
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: see if there's anybody or anything inside that he can see.
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: And so this guy is not very sophisticated. If if
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: you look at his gun holster, that's a revolver holster,
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: it's not a semi automatic holster, So that also tells
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: us he's not very sophisticated around guns. And the fact
• 37:23
  Speaker 7: that he's wearing multiple layers of gloves that tells us
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: that's going to be very difficult to get your finger
• 37:29
  Speaker 7: through the trigger area of that gun. So it's almost
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: like he just kind of put this kit on, you know,
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: as if he, you know, wasn't quite familiar with guns,
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: et cetera, et cetera. So I can see I can
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: see the Feds chasing that down too.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, not sophisticated at all.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I've never seen anybody carry a gun like that, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: quickly back out to Josh Coles, rude, did you hear
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Palezuela's whining He didn't get his mirandaized for two hours,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: he wasn't arrested, But well, what does he want?
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Carlos ritz Yep, Carlos was detained. He was not arrested.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: And when somebody is detained, uh, and they're free to leave,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: like he was told that he was. Miranda warnings are
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: not required. Now what is required to detain somebody? Uh,
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: it's reasonable suspicion. That is, you know, one step below
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: probable cause, which is what police officers need to arrest somebody. Now,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: if the police had probable cause, he would never have
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: gotten home last night. He would have been arrested and booked. Now,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: we don't know why the police officers were talking to him.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: It could have been their suspicion that he was connected
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: to the ransom notes or to the kidnapping. But until
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: they give us additional information, we're just going to have
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: to guess.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: If you know or.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: two five five four, or if you wish to remain
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four six
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: three Nancy Gray signing off for tonight Good Night Friend,