Latest / Systematic Geekology / Kingdom Hearts: A Journey Through Dreams and Memories

Transcript

Kingdom Hearts: A Journey Through Dreams and Memories · Systematic Geekology

1:14
Are the Kingdom Hearts video games more like a scattered dream or a far off memory?
1:21
Well, today we're going to be discussing that in a lot more in a.
1:25
In a kind of series, a sort of series miniseries.
1:28
I think there's words for this.
1:30
A miniseries.
1:30
We're going to be doing a systemic ecology leading up to The Kingdom Hearts 25th anniversary on March 28, September 17.
1:38
Depending on how you interpret things 2002, we're going to try to review every game and storyline in the Kingdom Hearts franchise leading up to hopefully The Kingdom Hearts 4 release next year.
1:50
It won't be, but I'm gonna hope anyway and just prepare my clown makeup as my hopes get dashed.
1:57
I am Joshua Knoll.
1:59
I tried my best to wear one of my three different Kingdom Hearts shirts and they were all dirty.
2:03
And that tells you about how much I care about Kingdom Hearts.
2:05
Here with the one and only true Keyblade master Christian Ashley.
2:08
How's it going, Christian?
2:10
All right, Joshua, I'm ready to start this discussion.
2:12
I love these games.
2:14
Yeah.
2:14
Yeah.
2:15
It's going to be fun.
2:15
It's going to be fun.
2:16
First thing first though, I got to know what you're geeking out on.
2:19
We got to share some of our geek cred.
2:21
For myself, I actually just watched season two of the live action Avatar the Last Airbender series on Netflix.
2:28
I liked season two better than season one.
2:29
My biggest gripe was that last episode, the pacing was just not.
2:34
I just wasn't a fan.
2:36
I was really upset at how they did metal bending.
2:39
It just shouldn't have been a oh, hey, I could do this.
2:42
That's a different episode.
2:43
Christian, what have you been geeking out on lately?
2:45
It doesn't surprise me that you have a positive view on the second season.
2:51
So ironically enough, I have stopped my playthrough of Kingdom Hearts because I beat the first game and that means going in the chain of memories, which means essentially replaying a lot of the same things again.
3:01
So repetition is one of my least favorite things in the world.
3:03
So I'm replaying that I haven't played in a while.
3:07
Dragon's Dogma Dark arisen and enjoying that.
3:11
Yeah, sounds fun.
3:12
Well, before we get into things, we do got to go through some of the normal biz, you know, reminding you guys, rate review show wherever you get your podcast.
3:21
It really helps our show get noticed and other people find the show all the algorithms things.
3:25
So trick those algorithms to think we're important by leaving a rating review Spotify, Apple, podcast, wherever you're listening helps a whole lot.
3:33
Also helps a lot when people financially support the show.
3:35
So we're going to shout out one of our financial supporters, Annette Null, who I'm going to get to see this weekend.
3:40
Really excited to see you, Annette.
3:41
Love you and I really appreciate all of your support.
3:44
I want to remind our listeners too that you can get your own shout out just like Annette by becoming an official member of Systematic Geekology.
3:50
You can do that by going to the website that's in the show's description and there's a lot of different tiers and stuff on there.
3:56
Pretty self explanatory fun stuff.
3:58
Same website, you can get some free extra content.
4:00
You get to buy merch, you can leave a one time financial gift.
4:03
If you're not like all about memberships and whatever, you could still just leave a one time donation.
4:07
It helps the show a whole lot and we really do appreciate everyone's support however you choose to, even if it's just by subscribing on your player.
4:15
That's cool.
4:16
As I said, this will be a series since it's the first episode, I don't have a thing to link to yet.
4:21
So we'll just link some of the other Kingdom Hearts episodes or something down below and as you follow up we will have a link to a series doing doing the Road to Kingdom Hearts 25th anniversary.
4:32
I didn't want to call it that because There are like five other YouTube series of like other Kingdom Hearts nerds doing that because like Kingdom Hearts fans kind of intense.
4:40
If you didn't know.
4:41
They're just a little intense.
4:42
Intense.
4:44
I want to say that I'm the exception but sometimes I can be intense.
4:47
I just feel like in a different way.
4:49
Hopefully we'll see.
4:50
But with that we are, we're gonna jump right into today's episode talking about my favorite video game franchise of all time.
5:00
And for Christian, it is a video game franchise of all time.
5:05
I think he enjoys, but it's definitely not in his favorites from my understanding.
5:12
So we're going to talk about it.
5:15
We're going to have a fun time.
5:16
We usually do when we talk Kingdom Hearts.
5:18
I do.
5:18
Anyway, briefly, Christian, if it's possible, how would you describe the premise?
5:25
Like.
5:25
Like.
5:26
Well you're like what's Kingdom Hearts?
5:28
Obviously you can't break down the story.
5:30
Because a worst series for this to be a question for all right.
5:36
Do you love Disney movies?
5:38
Do you love JRPG nonsense?
5:41
Congratulations, you have Kingdom Hearts.
5:43
The baby that came from those ideas.
5:46
You go to different Disney worlds, you encounter different Disney Characters, but also Final Fantasy characters and new characters made for this series.
5:54
Do you like convoluted nonsense?
5:56
Well, this is the perfect series for that.
5:58
Sometimes it makes sense.
6:00
It's a lot of fun.
6:01
There are very different games you can play.
6:03
Like, do you like a rhythm game?
6:04
I don't, but it's in there.
6:06
Do you like.
6:08
Do you like phone games?
6:09
I don't, but it's in there.
6:13
Do you like better games?
6:14
They're also in there.
6:15
It's all over the place.
6:16
Like describing it as a madman's folly.
6:19
You can't do it.
6:19
Just accept what it is.
6:21
Yeah, yeah.
6:22
I don't think I could describe the plot of Kingdom Hearts to someone who has played every game twice.
6:28
I still don't think I could describe the plot to that person that said.
6:34
Yeah, I mean, Christian's head on you basically, you just accept the premise that all of the Disney animated films you've ever seen are their own worlds.
6:42
They exist out there in space for some reason.
6:45
So do Final Fantasy worlds.
6:46
It's just a thing.
6:47
And accepting that premise, the worlds start to blink out.
6:52
Every world is a star, not the sun.
6:54
Why would it be the sun?
6:55
It's the worlds.
6:55
They're blinking out being consumed by darkness.
6:59
And the king, AKA Mickey Mouse, has gone to save it and sent his loyal subjects Donald and Goofy to find the key.
7:06
Convoluted nonsense makes that make less sense later on.
7:08
But you end up being the character who has the key and the kind of story unfolds and you're basically trying to save the worlds from being consumed by darkness.
7:16
It turns out it's not just the souls.
7:17
Individual people or their hearts are being consumed by darkness.
7:20
So then you get into weird metaphysics that no one wants to.
7:23
Well, we do.
7:23
We want to go down that road, but not right now.
7:26
We're going to keep going down that road, but not right this second.
7:31
Yes, for now.
7:33
Christian, we've said this plenty of times before.
7:38
What's your history with the games?
7:39
For those who maybe haven't heard our other Kingdom Hearts episodes, Yeah, I did.
7:43
Not grow up on these.
7:44
I knew they existed around the time that came out, but I was never really into RPGs at that point in time.
7:51
And I wasn't done with Disney at that time.
7:54
It was starting to not become cool, as it were, amongst my peers.
7:57
I was like, yeah, sure, whatever.
7:59
I still watch Disney movies.
8:00
But I didn't display that proudly.
8:02
It wasn't until after college where a mutual friend of ours, Cameron Ettinger, was playing in our Apartment.
8:10
Um, and that kind of looks like fun.
8:13
So I tried it out.
8:13
It was pretty fun.
8:14
I didn't understand what was going on, but it was pretty fun.
8:16
So I've kept at it and I don't understand anything since.
8:20
You know, That's.
8:21
That's weird.
8:23
Oh, man, it's.
8:24
Yeah, it's.
8:25
It's pretty wild.
8:27
Yeah.
8:27
Early on, it's definitely more.
8:29
You're like platformer meets jrpg, whatever.
8:32
And then they were like, they ditched the platforming thing pretty early on, but now there's just so many different styles of gaming.
8:39
Just wild, man.
8:41
Yeah.
8:42
So my first.
8:42
I think probably when it came out, I actually still have my first copy of Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories.
8:49
And I have the cases.
8:51
Amazing.
8:52
It's amazing when you keep a Game Boy advance case because, like, those cases were flimsy cardboard.
8:57
Like, they didn't maintain well.
9:00
No, you know, I loved it when it came out, though.
9:05
I didn't know what an RPG was.
9:07
And what happened was, I thought when Lilo and Stitch came out, I thought that's what it was.
9:12
I thought Lilo and Stitch was going to be this little alien going to all the different Disney worlds and I was going to be cool.
9:16
Then.
9:17
It wasn't.
9:17
I loved Lilo and Stitch, but I was like, man, I wish that thing happened.
9:20
Because if you remember, they had commercials where stitching trailers.
9:22
Yeah.
9:23
And then I found Kingdom Hearts.
9:25
I was like, wait a minute.
9:25
Is this what those commercials were for?
9:27
Was it not for Lilo and Stitch?
9:29
Did I gaslight myself?
9:30
No, it turns out those commercials existed.
9:32
But anyway, I picked up the Kingdom Hearts and immediately got stuck on the island.
9:38
And I'm like, I don't see any Disney characters.
9:40
I can't figure out how to get off this island.
9:42
This is stupid.
9:43
And stopped playing for months until my Uncle Shadow, Uncle Chuck came and he beat the island part.
9:49
And then all of a sudden, Pluto was jumping on me and I had a little key and I could fight shadows.
9:53
And then I'm looking for Donald a Goofy.
9:55
And then, like, y', all, it just downhill from there.
9:58
Remember, I didn't know what an RPG was at all.
10:01
At all.
10:02
At all.
10:02
I was still using the original Kingdom key, fighting Anselm on the end of the world.
10:08
And I lost so many times, hundreds of times.
10:11
I, like, I started asking for help, and it wasn't until my neighbor went, it was rpg.
10:15
You just change your Keyblade Anthem died in, like, two hits.
10:18
And it was great.
10:19
Hey, hey, if you keep it all the Way now you get a trophy for that.
10:22
Yeah.
10:23
Yeah.
10:23
If only I knew back then that one day that skill would be useful.
10:28
But yeah, I.
10:28
I loved it ever since.
10:29
And then I realized what RPG was, and I've replayed it over and over and over several times.
10:34
I now have people who are full adults that I work with that I have played these games twice a year since several years before they were born.
10:42
It just is what it is.
10:44
I love them.
10:45
I'm here for it.
10:46
All the convoluted nonsense, the weird metaphysics, the lore that makes no sense, all the retcons that they weren't retcons.
10:55
I'm here for all of it.
10:55
I love all of it.
10:57
I plan on making this back wall here, all Kingdom Hearts stuff.
11:00
I got some Funko Pops and little figurines and stuff.
11:02
I'm gonna be locked up.
11:03
Some of the manga, some of the short stories.
11:05
I have a long history that doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon with these games.
11:13
Okay, so, Christian, here's my plan.
11:16
We're gonna do 12 episodes for the 25th anniversary, including this one.
11:20
So we got 11 more.
11:21
Okay, I'm gonna break it up.
11:22
We're gonna try to go chronologically through what I've narrowed down to, like, the 13 entries.
11:28
I might be missing stuff because, again, it's just so hard to keep up.
11:33
So if we're going chronologically, we would have to.
11:36
We would start with the mobile games.
11:37
We might just talk about the trailers.
11:38
So we have Kingdom Hearts Back cover, Kingdom Hearts Union X and Kingdom Hearts Dark Road.
11:42
And that's prequel, prequel, prequel way early on.
11:45
Stuff that we'll be talking about in the next episode, hopefully.
11:49
Even if we're just talking about the clips, because it's basically impossible to get your hands on those games at this point to replay them.
11:55
We'll be replaying a lot of the other ones, I think.
11:58
So after that, the next episode after that will be Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep.
12:01
So that's kind of a prequel with some of the.
12:03
Well, I don't want to get into everything after that is the original Kingdom Hearts.
12:07
Then you have Kingdom Hearts chain of memories, which is in between Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2.
12:11
And it's kind of a rehash Kingdom Hearts 1.
12:13
But I still think it deserves its own episode because it deals a lot with how much of who you are is made up of your memories.
12:19
Are you still you without your memories?
12:20
And I think that's an important question to ask that will do it on its own.
12:23
Kingdom hearts 358 days by two.
12:26
There are now actually some pretty cool ways you can actually play that game.
12:30
So I'm excited to be able to replay it and have some fun with that.
12:33
Finally, Kingdom Hearts 2.
12:35
And yes, we are eight down to get to Kingdom Hearts 2.
12:38
If you're following along, then we have Kingdom Hearts coded then.
12:45
Sorry, I know how ridiculous this is, but like, if you're listening to a Kingdom Hearts podcast or something, you probably.
12:50
You knew.
12:51
Then there's Kingdom Hearts dream drop distance.
12:55
My comments will be held for later.
12:57
Kingdom hearts point 2.0.2 comes this far into birth by sleep.
13:03
A fragmentary passage kind of.
13:05
Because some of that happens during the first Kingdom Hearts and slightly before.
13:08
But overall I think it's best here before Kingdom Hearts 3 and then Kingdom Hearts 3.
13:15
The remind the DLC.
13:17
I'm going to lump in with Kingdom Hearts melody of memory.
13:20
Because there's no story.
13:21
A melody of memory, really.
13:22
It's just a music rehash.
13:24
Then at the very end you get.
13:25
Some stuff replaying everything.
13:27
Yeah, at the very end, some new stuff.
13:30
When they promised us a Kyrie game,.
13:33
Which some of the DLC almost is a carry.
13:36
It's not really.
13:37
It's just.
13:37
It's not.
13:38
Anyway, it's better.
13:39
It could be better, but it's better than what happened in the original game.
13:43
Yeah.
13:44
So that's what we have chronologically and what we're going to attempt to tackle in the next few months.
13:51
If you're on YouTube, you see this chart I found where someone tried to make a timeline.
13:55
And if that timeline looks crazy to you, it's not because I have it blown it up.
14:00
Look, blown up.
14:01
Still looks crazy.
14:02
It's because the timeline is in fact crazy.
14:06
Yes.
14:07
That's just not incomprehensible.
15:10
Yeah.
15:11
So that's what we're going to be rolling with.
15:14
So next I want to start a little bit of just how this franchise got started.
15:18
So, Christian, what do you know about actually how the concept came together for Kingdom Hearts?
15:24
I remember reading somewhere that Nomura, who had done a lot of the Final Fantasy Games, had loved his Disney films and the like and actually gone to Tokyo Disneyland at some point in time.
15:35
And it's like, well, what if.
15:37
And then kind of put feelers out and Disney responded well, and then we got the games.
15:42
I think that's like the bare bones idea.
15:44
You can easily correct me.
15:45
I'm sure you know more than me.
15:48
I think that's like the real backstory, the hyperbolic story that gets told that I think is Based on a lot of truth.
15:56
I won't say all truth.
15:59
Square Enix in Disney shared a building in Tokyo.
16:05
And supposedly the story goes that Nomura literally was on an elevator with a man.
16:13
Hashimoto.
16:13
I think it was a Disney executive and a Square Enix executive were literally just in an elevator.
16:20
And it was an actual elevator pitch.
16:23
That's the hyperbolic story.
16:25
Like, I feel like there's probably some truth to it.
16:28
They just happen to share the same building.
16:30
Someone did an elevator pitch and the other guy went, wait a minute.
16:34
What if we actually did that?
16:36
Yeah.
16:38
My favorite.
16:38
I think a lot of Americans kind of get, like, left behind on too.
16:42
Not only.
16:42
So Final Fantasy, you got to think, like, video games, everything, like Japanese culture.
16:46
You got to think about in Japan, how big a deal this was.
16:49
You have Final Fantasy, you have Disney.
16:51
That original song Minikaru Utada, like, that is their equivalent of Taylor Swift.
16:57
Like, she is the biggest pop star in Tokyo.
17:00
So you're picking this game up with a track from basically, Taylor Swift.
17:05
It is like, here we go.
17:07
And it's just kind of like, insane that this exists, you know, like, just insane.
17:13
And I think the funniest part to me is that, like, all of this sounds very gimmicky.
17:19
Right?
17:19
Like, Icaru, Utada, Final Fantasy and Disney.
17:22
And it's like, oh, we're just doing a money grab.
17:25
But then, like, you play it and you're like, wait a minute, there's a real story here.
17:29
I think I've actually invested.
17:31
Like, it sounds like a money grab, but I do feel like, at least originally, it was more than that.
17:36
Kingdom Hearts, three parts of it were, I think, a money grab, but.
17:39
But overall, I think as a franchise, it's a lot more than it should be.
17:44
Like, it should be.
17:45
They just put all the characters together because they knew we would buy it.
17:48
But the creators, I guess, decided a story was actually important and some convoluted lore.
17:54
Yeah.
17:55
So I do want to touch to.
17:58
Since it's going to be a while before we get to Kingdom Hearts 1, since we're doing it chronologically, could you maybe unpack a little bit?
18:04
What was the original Kingdom Hearts game about?
18:07
What do you think they had planned at that point?
18:10
And what do you think's just been retconned and changed up so that they can keep building the franchise since then?
18:14
Yeah.
18:15
So you start off on these islands called Destiny Islands 3.
18:18
Three people.
18:19
Your main character is Sora and his two best friends, Riku and Kairi.
18:22
And, you know, they know that Kairi is from somewhere else, some other world, it seems like.
18:27
And they this spurred their memory and like, motivation, like, maybe we can find other worlds ourselves.
18:32
So being young teens, their best idea is to make a raft and go out in the ocean and that will get us to another world somehow.
18:40
Then, of course, that's when the Heartless invade.
18:42
You know, they seemingly lose Kyrie at some point in time for convoluted reasons that makes sense within a series, but still are very convoluted.
18:51
Sora is gifted with the Keyblade.
18:53
He's able to fight against the Harlots.
18:54
But he ends up on, you know, Traverstown, where he ends up meeting Donald and Goofy, who are under orders from Mickey Mouse King Mickey to protect Donald, you know, the other worlds from the Heartless and find the Keyblade
19:06
master.
19:07
Well, bearer is what they call it there, while Mickey is doing things on the other side of things in the background.
19:13
So you go through different Disney worlds.
19:14
You discover there's some nonsense going on with some guy named Anson, but it's not actually Anson.
19:19
But we'll get there when we get there.
19:21
Where you eventually fight him, stopping the initial Heartless assault.
19:26
Yeah, yeah.
19:26
And you basically, you save the.
19:27
The world from going into darkness.
19:30
So you think at the very end, you're in what's called the end of World.
19:33
And it's kind of like a weird metaphysics area.
19:36
We're not really sure what's going on, what's real, what's not.
19:39
Your best friend, Riku, ends up stuck with Mickey Mouse on the other side of a barrier of some sort.
19:43
Things get ripped apart.
19:44
You're not able to be with Kyrie.
19:46
Everyone's still separated at the end of that first game.
19:48
So, like, I feel like you could tell at the end of the first game, they didn't think that was the end.
19:53
Like, they knew they were going to do more.
19:55
I'm very much not convinced they knew what more they were gonna do because there was nobody.
19:59
There was no organization or anything like that at this point.
20:03
And the only reason Mickey Mouse was so mysterious was just because they were only given rights by Disney to include him for one scene.
20:10
And they wanted it to matter, that's all.
20:12
Like, it wasn't because, oh, well, we have bigger plans later on because they didn't have the rights to use them.
20:18
You find out along the way he's been talking to you and Riku the entire time, but it's not voiced.
20:23
So you don't know.
20:26
Yeah, yeah.
20:27
But I do think what's introduced There early on, thematically that's important is the Trinity stuff.
20:33
The game's very heavy on Trinity.
20:35
I think partially for poetic reasons, but I think there actually is some kind of philosophy that the creator has in mind.
20:41
I do not claim to understand his philosophy or what he's thinking, but I do think there seems to be something in mind from the beginning that has to do with a trinity of sorts.
20:50
Not a Christian trinity, probably more like a human's being made of body, mind, soul or something like that would be my guess of what he has in mind.
20:59
So like when you start Christian mentioned, there's Sora, Riku, Kairi.
21:04
Riku is seemingly pulled into the darkness.
21:07
He loses his way.
21:08
Kairi is defeated or disappeared, the victim.
21:12
And then you end up being the hero that moves on.
21:14
Then you have Mickey, Donald and Goofy as a trinity.
21:17
Mickey gets separated into the darkness.
21:19
Actually, I don't know if that's said in this game, but you end up with Donald and Goofy forming a new trinity.
21:24
Like that's going to just keep being repeated.
21:27
And throughout all the games, one of them, I will even say to its detriment, they made up some convoluted stuff so that they could have a trinity.
21:34
But that's going to be important, that the trinity thing, it's going to matter.
21:38
Yeah.
21:39
I can say as an Evangelion fan, when you see Christian aspects in a Japanese led production, it's because they thought it looked cool or sounded cool.
21:48
Not necessarily daily, because they were thinking of the deeper philosophical and theological themes that we look at.
21:54
Because it's a foreign religion for the most part in Japan.
21:58
So it's like when someone adds a Buddhist script or something like that in an American show or some other saying of Confucian, you know, saying in one of their shows.
22:08
Because it's weird to us because we're not used to it.
22:11
Yeah, yeah.
22:11
And you will have a lot of those other Christians who will do the whole, oh, it's a trinity, oh, Mickey is king.
22:18
And then try to make something there.
22:19
And I do think like a lot of that just happens to be the language and imagery looks cool and it's more circumstantial now.
22:26
The games very much do get into metaphysics.
22:29
It really is about that.
22:31
It does very much get into light and dark.
22:34
What does it mean to be like a good person?
22:36
Or what does it mean to give yourself into darkness?
22:39
Is darkness the same thing as evil?
22:40
Like it gets into a lot of themes like that, just not in the Christian way.
22:44
Not in the way that maybe like, if you grew up evangelical, that you hear Trinity and King and you're like, oh, okay, that's what it's doing.
22:50
That's not what it's doing.
22:50
Not even close.
22:51
Yeah, but that doesn't mean there aren't themes and messages that we can take and find applicable and good.
22:56
It just means that that's not what the game intended.
22:58
Yes.
22:59
Okay, so now maybe what?
23:04
People care a little bit more about what's next for Kingdom Hearts Christian, why we're doing this 25th anniversary is coming up.
23:12
They finally gave us a slightly longer Kingdom Hearts 4 trailer.
23:16
D23 has a whole segment dedicated to Kingdom Hearts that's coming out next month.
23:20
Okay.
23:20
Maybe we'll get some news.
23:23
Yeah, it looks like things are going.
23:26
They're doing another Kingdom Hearts collection.
23:27
They do those every so often, but it looks like they're actually ramping up to something.
23:34
What?
23:35
Listen, I would love it to be Kingdom Hearts 4.
23:37
I would Hearts 3.5 yet.
23:40
I know that sounds ridiculous, but just given what I have gone through, lived through, playing these games, assuming that I'm gonna get Kita parts 4 before 3.5 or something, some other nonsense just seems not realistic.
23:53
Out of character almost.
23:55
Yeah.
23:55
I'm like, ah, I'm not getting my hopes up.
23:57
It'd be cool.
23:58
But until I see 3.5, 3.7, two other side games, I'm not sure.
24:04
I believe we already got 3.9.
24:09
Yeah.
24:11
So that is one of the best jokes I've ever done that was so good.
24:14
For those uninitiated, we make fun because they did do 2.5 and 2.8.
24:20
Those were games that were released that were just Kingdom Hearts 2 again, and everybody complained about it.
24:26
And what I love that this does is make fun of its fans.
24:30
So naturally, when Kingdom Hearts 3 starts, during the little prelude section, they say Kingdom Hearts 2.9 comes up on the screen.
24:39
Because you know what?
24:40
Why not make fun of our fans while we're doing this thing and making.
24:43
Fun of themselves, too?
24:44
Yeah, well, plus, like Kingdom Hearts fans, for the most part, we know we're not the majority.
24:51
We do make fun of ourselves.
24:52
I.
24:53
The other day, people were, like, at work and they were talking about different stuff they like and how things seem childish sometimes.
24:58
And I'm like, listen, guys, I'm gonna laugh at you, but no judgment.
25:02
My favorite piece of media includes the line, this ship runs on smiles.
25:07
I don't get to judge nobody, man.
25:11
But there's a huge difference between being childish and childlike.
25:14
See, our Peter, you're called to be childlike.
25:17
Yes.
25:18
Yeah.
25:19
Well, also, you know, there's the CS Lewis quote, because, you know, I'm obligated to mention CS Lewis.
25:23
CS Lewis talks about putting childishness away.
25:26
And part of that means that thing that when you're a kid you're afraid of someone calling you childish or saying you're not a grown up or whatever.
25:33
It's like when I became a man, I put away the fear of childishness as well as all the other childish stuff.
25:39
One of the things I put away was that fear of someone saying I'm childish.
25:42
Like, so what?
25:43
Who cares?
25:45
And I just feel like me and my aunt and CS Lewis are going have a fun time in heaven one day.
25:48
But maybe actually not playing Kingdom Hearts.
25:51
He did not like Disney, but it's fine.
25:54
So yeah, that being said, Kingdom Hearts 4 trailer Christian, I know you mentioned on what's News episode.
26:00
Yeah.
26:01
You have any other thoughts you want to like expand on here?
26:03
I mean, I've given us more thought since then and nothing really new other than, you know, there's been this whole speculation of what quadratum, the world that Sora has ended up in is actually.
26:13
Is it like a purgatory of swords?
26:16
Is it actually an afterlife of some kind?
26:18
And that's why we're seeing some of these characters in the trailer, like Young Xehanort, like Luxord and the like.
26:26
But who knows?
26:29
It seems like that's how maybe if that's what it is, Donald and Goofy can make it there.
26:34
That's why they want to go to Hades is like, obviously he hasn't been shown on screen, but we know exactly where they are, so maybe that's how they're able to reach theirs.
26:42
Hades just gets rid of them or something.
26:44
Like, I'm all for it.
26:46
Yeah.
26:46
Yeah, man.
26:48
Again, guys, huge nerd.
26:49
I follow all the social media, all the things, and I shouldn't be ashamed, but I'm not.
26:53
The guy who plays Hades has already said he thinks The Kingdom Hearts 4 plot is actually one of the best ones after coming back from a book speaking appointment.
27:03
And we know that he plays Hades and literally everything.
27:06
So it's kind of like a.
27:07
I feel like he probably knows he probably is in the game.
27:10
He's been in the other three main entries and if he's willing to just keep coming back, they're probably going to keep using them.
27:16
So he loves voicing Hades.
27:19
Yeah.
27:20
I don't condone him as a human or I'm not using his name, but I think he is Wonderful for the part.
27:27
And I am excited to have him included in the next Kingdom Hearts game.
27:30
Still.
27:31
Yeah, I do think Kingdom Hearts were probably going to deal with a lot of death.
27:35
When we think about a game that's dealing with identity and what it hasn't done yet, I can see probably where they go next.
27:43
I know the.
27:44
The creator has mentioned wanting to talk more about the soul, which slightly worries.
27:49
I don't really care what they mean by soul.
27:51
And what I mean by soul could be completely different things.
27:53
And that's fine.
27:54
So.
27:55
Well, we'll see.
27:57
I saw.
27:58
I do think it's interesting.
27:59
We see a lot of those organization 13 people who are either dead or re became their own human again.
28:04
So they're probably not Xehanort.
28:06
Probably someone who looks like Xehanort again or whatever.
28:11
Of course, what grabbed my attention, this keyblade that was in it.
28:15
And a lot of people at first were like, oh, it's elemental.
28:17
And I'm like, wait a minute.
28:17
Those flowers coming off look a lot more like Polynesian.
28:21
That's probably a Moana keyblade.
28:24
I don't know if that's been officially confirmed yet, but it's a Moana keyblade.
28:28
I just watched the live action.
28:29
One of those almost guarantees.
28:31
Yeah, well, I just watched the live action Moana too.
28:34
And then we immediately watched the animated.
28:36
And I'm like, there's just no way that they're not going to include one of the bigger Disney animated films that's come out recently.
28:42
And also where the main villain is someone whose heart was stolen.
28:48
Yeah, it's just low hanging fruit, you know, like that's.
28:52
That's Kingdom Hearts written all over it.
28:54
So yeah, I do think we'll probably get Moana.
28:58
I personally the my two most likely games I still worlds.
29:04
I think we'll see Coco and Star Wars.
29:06
I think we're gonna get Star wars probably indoor.
29:09
And I definitely think Coco, especially if they're gonna be dealing with themes of death or the soul or anything like that at all.
29:14
That'd be big.
29:15
Probably get Coco.
29:16
Yeah.
29:17
Also aesthetically, it'll just look cool.
29:19
And the people who make Kingdom Hearts, if you played these games, you know, a lot of the times they are choosing what they think looks cool.
29:26
It would be really nice to have something actually connect together instead of some vague power of waking thing that was already the subject of one whole game.
29:33
That said, I do think that he's going to learn the power of waking at Moana pretty early on in the series.
29:39
In this game, this is just all speculation.
29:43
But, like, having watched it and seen how the person was awakened with her heart returned.
29:47
Everybody dealing with identity in the Moana movie, I'm like, ah, you know, I could see him doing that.
29:52
And that being there get out of jail free card is he just goes to Moana, learns wake, and so they can do what story they really want to do instead of him being stuck wherever he's at right now.
30:02
Because notoriously, they like to set us up for something and then not really deliver it and brush it off.
30:08
If.
30:09
If the creator has something else he wants to talk about, like souls, he's probably just gonna brush this quantum thing off.
30:13
It's gonna be in all the trailers and we're gonna be like, that was cool.
30:16
You're like, okay, yeah, but I wanted to talk about this.
30:18
And we'll just have to deal with that.
30:21
Anything else about the trailer or any of the.
30:24
That you wanted to go over?
30:25
No.
30:26
Okay.
30:26
I'm good.
30:27
Kind of tied to the trailer.
30:29
D23 next month.
30:30
They're supposed to be high about a whole Kingdom Hearts section.
30:33
Why I'm going to connect it to the trailer.
30:35
What I think is interesting, the trailer didn't show a lot of Disney worlds, if you catch my drift.
30:42
The game is owned by Disney.
30:43
Sora is a Disney character.
30:45
All the property, the merch, everything I buy, it's gonna have a Disney tag on it.
30:49
It's Disney, not like Square Enix Ish.
30:52
But like Disney owns everything because that's what they do.
30:55
So, yeah, I'm thinking if they Show Kingdom Hearts 4 at all, because there's a huge chance that it's just them going, wasn't Kingdom Hearts cool so far, guys?
31:02
And everyone just getting their hopes up for nothing.
31:04
I do think there's a pretty solid chance of that.
31:06
But if they.
31:07
If they do Show Kingdom Hearts 4, I think we'll see more of the actual Disney stuff in this because that would track that they.
31:13
Nintendo could show Kingdom Hearts, but Disney wants to show what world you're going to see or kind of give you more of that sneak peek.
31:19
Because, you know, Disney likes to make themselves the big deal for their own property, which I guess fair.
31:23
Yeah.
31:24
Any.
31:24
Any speculations thoughts on what the D23.
31:27
Thing, I think at the least one world, if I'm optimistic, two to three.
31:32
And I think it was really like the easy guarantees.
31:34
It's.
31:35
There's going to be a Moana World, there's going to be a frozen 2 world, there's going to be a Zootopia World.
31:40
Look, look, don't say.
31:41
Who are we dealing with here?
31:42
I don't want Zootopia.
31:46
But we.
31:47
We know there's going to be more Pixar, so.
31:49
You know, I wouldn't be surprised to see you finding Nemo World.
31:51
If they want to troll us again, it'll be another Hercules world where we're showcasing the fight against a Rock Titan.
31:57
Which just like Kingdom Hearts 3.
31:59
That would be pretty funny.
32:00
Yeah.
32:00
So.
32:00
Yeah.
32:01
I mean.
32:01
Yeah, I'm thinking they'll probably.
32:03
If I had to guess, if they do anything in March four, they'll confirm Star wars because everybody already knows it's going to happen.
32:10
So then doing it will make a bunch of noise and cool.
32:12
I guess.
32:13
And they'll probably show us one or two worlds.
32:15
Yeah.
32:15
And it's going to be Moana and something else.
32:18
Probably nothing too surprising.
32:20
Yeah.
32:20
And that's if they do Kingdom Hearts 4 at all.
32:23
I'm still maintaining it's probably just going to be guys.
32:26
Wasn't Kingdom Hearts so cool?
32:27
Look, here's 25th anniversary merch that we're going to have at.
32:30
There's some really obscure locations just for you.
32:33
Buy this.
32:34
Here's a new concert.
32:35
Give us money.
32:35
Concert Only in Japan, which has lore in it.
32:38
Yeah, yeah.
32:39
And they'll tell us that at D23 in California that we need to go to Japan.
32:44
I wouldn't put it past.
32:45
Yeah, me neither.
32:46
That wouldn't be shocking at all.
32:49
Okay, so with that the what's next?
32:53
Whatever stuff out of the way we're getting into to a convoluted series that you and you are going to talk through all these games.
33:01
It's going to be a wild fun ride to start us off.
33:05
I want to hear your.
33:06
And I'll give you mine.
33:07
I give mine first if you want.
33:09
But favorite and least favorite of each of the following.
33:12
So do you.
33:12
Do you want me to go first or do you want to me to.
33:14
Run through switch back and forth.
33:16
That works.
33:16
All right.
33:17
Favorite and least favorite character.
33:20
Man, I am so annoying with this.
33:22
Sora is my favorite character.
33:24
The main character.
33:25
I hate to be the guy, but like I love it.
33:27
Like even his flaws, it's like he's just hopeful and naive.
33:31
But like that hope is also his strength and his friendship.
33:34
And I'm all about it.
33:35
It's cheesy and whatever, but like I love it.
33:38
And I unfortunately relate even to the night.
33:41
Yeah.
33:42
Least favorite character.
33:44
Unpopular maybe opinion.
33:47
I can't think of his name.
33:48
But the guy who's like From Final Fantasy 10 who's on Destiny island with a little pole?
33:53
Tidus.
33:54
Think he's my least favorite character.
33:57
Waka.
33:58
Like, I don't know.
33:58
It's the kid with the.
33:59
The pole.
34:00
His voice just annoys me.
34:02
There isn't a lot in these games that I'm like, oh, I hate that.
34:05
Oh, actually, I changed Jeon.
34:08
That's my least favorite character.
34:10
Really.
34:10
I think Hot take.
34:12
I really.
34:12
I think she only exists because they wanted a Trinity and they were afraid to have two guys and not include a girl.
34:17
And I'm like, I just don't think the story needed it.
34:20
Like, it fit really well.
34:21
But I'm like, I just felt like y' all did that because you wanted another Trinity and not because the story needed that.
34:27
And I would have rather had more of Roxas and Axel's friendship explored on its own.
34:31
I will say in that idea, her very existence convolutes things just by existing.
34:37
Yes.
34:38
If you want to simplify matters, her being gone would be a good thing.
34:41
But I do actually enjoy Jeanne and what she represents, so I'm going to disagree.
34:46
That's.
34:46
Surprise, surprise.
34:47
That's fair.
34:48
By no means do I think.
34:49
I don't think any of them are bad characters for me, though.
34:52
It's just that the one that maybe irritates me the most and then that one guy with annoying voice on Destiny Island.
34:58
Or what about you favorite and least.
35:00
Favorite character you're talking about?
35:01
You talk about the one with the ball or the one that like sword fights here.
35:04
Yeah, with the pole.
35:05
The sword fight.
35:06
Yeah.
35:06
The sword fight would be Titus, the one throwing the ball at you as Waka.
35:09
Oh, well, then Titus.
35:10
Titus what?
35:11
I mean, yeah, that voice or Titus,.
35:13
However you want to pronounce it.
35:14
It's biblical character.
35:16
Yeah.
35:17
That's my favorite part of the Old Testament is Final Fantasy 10.
35:22
Yeah.
35:23
Yeah.
35:23
I don't know what God was spoken at that time, but it was something.
35:27
So, favorite character.
35:29
I've said it on other shows before.
35:30
It's Aqua.
35:31
That's my girl.
35:33
Her story is one of the best parts of Kingdom Hearts.
35:38
Someone who is extremely competent and yet isn't good enough because of circumstances.
35:42
Not because she's a bad character or anything like that.
35:45
It's just she was up against something she couldn't have planned for, and neither was anyone else around them because they were improperly trained.
35:53
Yeah.
35:54
Luke Skywalker looking at you, That's a joke.
35:56
Mark Hamill happens to play.
35:58
Yeah.
35:58
Okay.
35:59
Anyway.
35:59
Yes, yes, yes.
36:03
So, yeah, her.
36:04
Love her immensely.
36:05
I Will give a shout out real quick to a character I already love from a different movie.
36:09
Obviously, Woody, a Toy Story has one of the best lines in the series where he tells Anort the reason he is who he is is because he doesn't have any friends.
36:17
And the fact that we got to have that scene at all is immensely funny to me because it's one of those, like, out of context.
36:24
How are you supposed to have context for this at all?
36:27
And yet we have Woody, a toy, telling an actual person who's become a heartless version of himself that he has no.
36:36
Sorry, nobody.
36:37
This.
36:37
Whatever.
36:38
Yeah, Chef's Kiss,.
36:41
I guess.
36:42
Least favorite character.
36:43
I really have a hard time with this because most of the characters in here I love, but I guess Chicken Little is one of the worst summons in the game.
36:51
Oh, I forgot about that.
36:53
That's how bad that was.
36:55
Yeah, I used it and I hope never again.
37:01
And I guess this would be.
37:02
My hot take would be Winnie the Pooh, because I know as soon as that happens, then other things that are on this list will happen.
37:09
So that makes me upset.
37:11
I love Winnie the Pooh and all of the Winnie the Pooh content in these games.
37:16
Of course I would.
37:17
Right.
37:18
Yeah.
37:18
Okay.
37:19
Favorite and least favorite song.
37:21
I'm talking about the Hikaru Utada songs.
37:23
Or, you know, the beginning ending songs.
37:25
Yeah, the actual songs, not the themes.
37:27
Although, do you want to include those?
37:28
I mean, it's hard to go on with simple and Clean.
37:31
Like, it's really.
37:32
It just makes it go, oh, yeah, this is Kingdom Hearts.
37:35
Yeah.
37:35
And I don't really have, like, a least favorite of hers.
37:38
I mean, I guess Face My Fears is not as good as the other two, in my opinion.
37:43
But, I mean, they're still great.
37:45
And that's coming from someone who doesn't really keep track of, like, who sung what and where.
37:49
Yeah, I.
37:50
I love all of them.
37:51
I just want to be clear.
37:52
I love the Japanese and English versions of all of them.
37:55
Did an episode on some Joyful Noises, specifically about Hikaru Otada and going over some of the Kingdom Hearts songs and some of her other work, too.
38:01
Or their other work.
38:02
Not sure pronouns right now.
38:04
They've had a journey.
38:06
Simple and Clean.
38:07
Yeah, that's my favorite.
38:08
I'm gonna have to agree.
38:09
Sanctuary is close for my least favorite, though.
38:12
Don't think twice.
38:14
The end of The Kingdom Hearts 3.
38:16
It's amazing.
38:17
It's just not as good as, like, simple and Clean or Sanctuary comes on and I'm like nostalgia in my feels.
38:22
I'm all there.
38:25
Don't think twice.
38:25
That was a good song.
38:26
That's all.
38:28
That's literally the extent of, you know.
38:30
All right, after that.
38:32
World.
38:32
What's your least in favorite of all of the worlds we visit in the Kingdom Hearts franchise?
38:37
I will say favorites.
38:39
It's kind of hard to pick just one.
38:41
I'll throw out Neverland.
38:42
And it's different iterations.
38:45
Just being on Hooked Ship in the first game and then being on actual Neverland and Birth by Sleep is really great.
38:50
Monstropolis.
38:51
I really love that one.
38:52
Oh, that was good.
38:53
Ton of fun there.
38:54
So least favorite.
38:55
I mean, sorry, buddy.
38:57
It's Winnie the Pooh.
38:59
Because once again, as soon as that happens, I know in order to progress and get other items, I have to do these mini games that stall the game in order to do them.
39:08
Absolutely not.
39:10
I just love sitting there with Winnie the Pooh.
39:12
I don't even care.
39:13
What we're doing is great.
39:15
Not my favorite world.
39:16
So my favorite Disney movie is Hercules.
39:18
So I hate not seeing Hercules.
39:20
But like the Nightmare Before Christmas worlds, every time you go, it's just a freaking blast, man.
39:26
Like, it's so much fun.
39:27
The music's great.
39:28
Everything about it is just fantastic.
39:30
So that.
39:32
Or.
39:32
Or honestly, universe 3 is not my favorite of the games.
39:36
Pirates of the Caribbean and Kingdom Hearts 3, though it was so well done.
39:40
It's what I wish Assassin's Creed Black Flag was.
39:43
Yeah, I.
39:44
I liked it a lot.
39:44
I had a lot of fun with it.
39:45
About that.
39:46
Okay.
39:47
Favorite and least favorite enemy.
39:49
There are plenty in this.
39:51
But I really like the defenders.
39:55
The.
39:55
The giants.
39:56
Like the noodly neck kind of guys.
39:59
Yeah.
39:59
Where with the huge shield and Kingdom Hearts one.
40:03
Like, because, you know.
40:05
Oh, I mean, I've been dealing with the large bodies, whatever, this whole game and the fat man.
40:09
So I just know what.
40:09
You keep going around them.
40:10
Well, you do that and then they spin around and.
40:13
Too bad, buddy.
40:14
But it's still fun because you know how to deal with them.
40:16
It's learning that process.
40:17
I will say it's probably the easiest one for most people.
40:21
Kingdom Hearts 2, hot rods, the cars you fight in the older Disney cartoon worlds, it's like, oh, suddenly I just have this super shield and screw you for.
40:31
For existing.
40:34
Oh, man.
40:35
Yeah, that's.
40:35
That's fair.
40:37
Anyone who says that has the correct answer, and I'm going to give the incorrect answer for.
40:41
For worst.
40:41
So my favorite, actually, I love fighting the behemoths in the first game with the horn.
40:47
You, like, jump on their back and you can like navigate and it's not like a huge boss fight, but it's also not like just a simple.
40:52
Like it's right there in the middle.
40:54
But I love it.
40:55
Yeah.
40:57
My least favorite.
40:59
And again, I reiterate, Christian has the correct answer.
41:01
The correct answer is to say those stupid cars.
41:04
But what irritates me even worse, and I'm sorry, it's because.
41:08
I think it's just because I'm adhd.
41:09
Honestly, the Samurai, nobody's were like, if you don't scroll down and hit the right button, they like assassinate you.
41:15
And like, I don't have the patience to stop in the middle of fighting.
41:19
Oh, let me click the right.
41:20
No, no, absolutely.
41:24
Those Heck out of me.
41:26
Bad.
41:27
The dancers.
41:28
Oh, yeah.
41:28
Oh, I'm here.
41:29
Oh, I'm there.
41:30
Oh, now you're dead.
41:31
We had to fight both at once.
41:32
It's like, this is just.
41:33
Yes, this is.
41:34
This game hates me for some reason and I've given it so much money.
41:40
Okay, I'm already sad by this.
41:45
What is your favorite and least favorite of the mini games?
41:50
Yeah.
41:51
All right.
41:51
Yeah, just.
41:52
Here we go.
41:53
I typically don't like playing mini games unless there's really great rewards from them.
41:59
And even then sometimes they get on my nerves.
42:01
My exception to this in the series is actually the command board and Birth by Sleep.
42:05
Because it's an actual game.
42:08
I love to mess with people, these NPCs who can't really do anything.
42:12
When I roll perfectly and I cause them to lose their points.
42:16
It just feels really good to just bully them and get higher scores.
42:21
Actual mini games.
42:22
If you want to know the part where I almost lost my hair, it's when I was trying to platinum everything and I stopped the Kingdom Hearts 2.
42:28
And this is after I got this trophy and that's the mushroom 13 minigames there.
42:33
Like, I don't have a lot of hair left.
42:35
And that's one of the reasons why those things stress me out.
42:38
There was so many like, oh, by the way, hey, screw you at the last second because we're going to do something that we weren't doing previously.
42:44
Even though everything before this we were perfectly working with how you're supposed to fight this.
42:48
Like, nope, nope, doesn't matter.
42:50
You have to do this all over again if you want to get the achievement.
42:54
So I hate that.
42:55
Then of course, I mean, just minigames in general.
42:57
No, no.
42:57
My actual answer is the ice cream and Birth by Sleep in Disneytown because it's rhythm based.
43:06
I have no rhythm.
43:07
I'm very Very white.
43:09
And I barely.
43:10
Because you have to pass it in order to progress in the game.
43:15
And I hate it with every fiber of my being.
43:18
And there's a reason why I will never Platinum Birth by sleep.
44:12
That's fair.
44:12
That's fair.
44:14
Well, that didn't hurt me as bad as I thought.
44:17
My all time favorite Kingdom Hearts minigame easily is when I'm in 100 acre woods helping Winnie the Pooh find the rest of the Hundred Acre woods characters.
44:26
And we're gathering them together and I'm just like, this is it.
44:30
Like, I don't have to worry about fighting.
44:31
I'm just here hanging out in 100 acre woods.
44:34
Now, mind you, the first time you play it and as you play it later on, I feel like two different things when you first play it.
44:39
For me, I'm like, I want to get to the rest of the story.
44:41
This is irritating.
44:42
But now, like, I know the story.
44:43
I'm just here to live in the world and I'm having fun with it.
44:46
I love that.
44:47
I also really like Giant Land From Kingdom Hearts 3.
44:51
It's basically just like a 2D scroller or whatever they like.
44:54
I had fun with that.
44:56
My least favorite is probably the thing that's gonna.
44:59
It's gonna be that thing that, like, everybody's like.
45:01
That is the most incorrect answer anyone's ever had.
45:05
Probably the, like, Verum whatever that, like, robot minigame in Toy Story 3 where you, like get to jump in the robots and you fight all the other rope.
45:13
Like, it was fun.
45:15
But Toy Story and Kingdom Hearts 3 take so long, like an unnecessary amount of time.
45:20
And at the point where you have to stop and do this other minigame, I'm like, I'm already.
45:24
I want to go to the next world.
45:25
Like, I'm tired of this already.
45:26
And I like Toy Story, but I just.
45:28
I'm ready to move on, you know?
45:30
So that.
45:30
That's.
45:31
Yeah, my bad opinion of the day, I guess.
45:33
Veyrum Rex.
45:34
Yeah, that'll be my least favorite.
45:36
Okay.
45:36
Favorite and least favorite game in the franchise.
45:40
Earth by Sleep.
45:40
My favorite night.
45:41
Fair enough.
45:42
I love the three different paths going through three, you know, three different perspectives and all these worlds.
45:47
Gaz it a little samey after a while.
45:49
Sure.
45:49
Because you're seeing things you saw before, but from a different perspective.
45:54
Like, why is Vintage acting this way in this world?
45:56
Why is Aqua.
45:56
Why is Tara doing xyz?
45:58
Because, well, if you play their story, you're gonna go, oh, that's why they did that.
46:02
Or that's why they said a thing that they said.
46:04
That's why they're so upset.
46:06
Like, yeah, it's perfect.
46:07
Great in that regard for me.
46:09
Yeah, the worlds are really great there.
46:11
I wish we had gotten that Jungle Book World, but unfortunately, it just didn't come to being.
46:16
It was also supposed to be a treasure planet, either in this one or one of the other Kingdom Hearts games.
46:19
Can't remember.
46:20
Would have been great.
46:22
That's one of my Dark Horse picks for four.
46:25
Same.
46:25
Same.
46:26
Because I think you could easily, like, do the pirate stuff you did in three with, like, a ship in space.
46:31
Wouldn't that be fun?
46:31
Great.
46:33
Then, of course.
46:34
And this is unusual for me to have as my favorite because I'm not a big downer ending kind of guy.
46:38
And there's a huge downer ending in birth by sleep, like you had.
46:43
There kind of has to be.
46:44
But it's because I know what happens next that I can go, okay, well, they didn't.
46:47
Like, well, everything sucks and everyone died and thanks for playing a game and give us your money.
46:53
Like, no, it wasn't that.
46:54
Yeah, there was still hope.
46:55
Yeah.
46:56
Yes, there was hope.
46:57
That's what a very important thing in a franchise you need to build hope.
47:01
That's.
47:01
That's another separate matter for a world that might come in.
47:04
Kingdom Hearts four least favorite.
47:07
Now this is where the Fellowship ends.
47:10
It's one.
47:10
I hate the platforming with every fiber of my being.
47:14
I.
47:15
I'm old.
47:16
I can't do things correctly that way.
47:18
I can't jump this correct way.
47:20
The moment I achieve the glide is one of the greatest moments of my gaming life, because then I don't have to jump to the next one.
47:27
I can just jump up and glide towards where I want to go next.
47:31
Yeah.
47:32
Yeah.
47:32
That is a perfect transition into my favorite of the.
47:38
I love the platforming, actually.
47:41
I used to add fun with that.
47:42
It was my first RPG game.
47:45
And just all the nostalgia in the worlds were some of the best.
47:48
And even, like, I still love how they do the villains in this better than the rest of the Disney villains, where they have their secret meeting where Maleficent's in charge, where you're like, oh, is that Oogie Boogie?
47:56
Is that whatever.
47:57
Like the old PS2 version on my TV, everything was dark enough.
48:00
Like, I couldn't quite tell.
48:01
I think that's Jafar.
48:02
I'm not sure.
48:03
And then when it was, I was like, oh, it was Jafar.
48:05
And it was so much fun for me.
48:07
And I love that.
48:08
Yeah, I'm 100% with you there, the villain alliance is at its best and.
48:13
My least favorite, which is this is one of the very rare times that I think I have the correct opinion.
48:19
I don't think this is a bad opinion at all.
48:21
Dre and Dopp distance is just not it.
48:24
Guys, I found a new version that you could get, like, a fan made, like, thing that exists online.
48:31
I'm not sure how legal it is, so, like, I definitely wouldn't do this, but the melon mix.
48:35
And I'm like, okay, that makes it palatable because the story is good.
48:37
The idea there, I like where, like, you're switching between the two characters because you're going through dream worlds and you're not staying fully conscious.
48:44
Like, the idea of awakening, like, there's a lot of stuff.
48:46
They all had a lot of potential.
48:48
But then you introduce, like, Kingdom Hearts Pokemon, and then later, the weird little Pokemon Kingdom Heart spirit creatures turned out to be, like, the souls of children or something.
48:56
And I'm like, what are we doing here?
49:00
And, like, I just.
49:02
No.
49:03
Oh, you want to talk about that many games?
49:05
No.
49:06
Building them up.
49:07
Yeah.
49:08
So angry.
49:08
Like, I don't.
49:09
I don't want to sit here and play, like, you know, like, that little old DS Dog game.
49:13
Like, that's not what I'm doing.
49:14
Like, I want to play Kingdom Hearts.
49:17
Yeah.
49:18
That irritated me to no end.
49:19
And I think it is just the correct answer to say it's the least.
49:22
A lot of grinding good of the.
49:24
Games, and it sucks because I'm probably.
49:26
I think it's the one you get to play as Riku the most.
49:28
Something I always wanted to do as a kid, and then they did that to me, so thanks for that.
49:33
Yeah.
49:34
So with that positive note, what is the.
49:37
The.
49:37
Your favorite and least favorite version of Dearly Beloved?
49:40
That is the.
49:41
The theme Yoko Shimomura wrote for Kingdom Hearts, and we have a different version of it at the beginning of each game.
49:48
And I'm a big nerd because I can answer this question.
49:50
I don't know if Christian can, because, like, I'm just a big nerd for this.
49:54
I have two.
49:55
Well, I'll give three answers.
49:57
Three answers, then.
49:57
Since Christian I don't think has any.
50:00
My least favorite version.
50:01
I knew it's not one of the.
50:02
Ones you're going to select Again.
50:03
Dream Drop Distance.
50:05
That even the Dearly Beloved just doesn't sound right there.
50:10
My actual favorite Dearly Beloved is Kingdom Hearts 2.
50:13
I know that's cliche.
50:14
Everyone's favorites Kingdom Hearts 2 as a game, but, like, Dearly Beloved there.
50:18
Like, they do something to it that just feels more mystical, almost like it feels borderline spiritual.
50:24
And I actually really like that.
50:26
Then my.
50:26
My third little sneak answer here.
50:28
I adore the original.
50:31
Not this new RE Chain of Memories thing, but the original Kingdom Hearts.
50:34
Chain of Memories, Dearly Beloved.
50:37
Because it's like the old Game Boy only had so many notes it could hit, and it has that, like, pixelized sound.
50:42
If I can have that played in the background somewhere, it's like it resonates with my soul.
50:46
Like it's like some deep nostalgia magic happens or something.
50:50
And I'm like, yeah, this is it.
50:53
It's the most nostalgic for me, I think, because Chain of Memories was a lot harder than the original Kingdom Hearts for me, because I've played a lot of platformers.
51:01
I have not played a lot of games like that, so it took me a little bit longer to get through it.
51:07
And I heard that Chain of Memories, Dearly Beloved significantly more times.
51:11
But, yeah, now I've come to have that nostalgia with it.
51:14
Did you want to say anything about any of the Dearly Beloved versions?
51:17
Yeah, I said my answer wouldn't be yours, and it's because my favorite is Amelie's cover of her because I think she has a really pretty voice.
51:24
A voice for Dearly Beloved.
51:26
I don't think I've heard this.
51:28
Are they just singing the notes?
51:29
Oh, there's lyrics.
51:30
Dearly Beloved.
51:31
What?
51:32
Yeah.
51:32
Where?
51:33
When?
51:34
I don't know, man.
51:35
How have I not heard that?
51:36
Because even when she won the bafta, they just did the musical version.
51:40
Oh, no.
51:41
I think it's a fan thing.
51:42
There's no actual lyrics to the original, but other people have made it, and I think she was covering that.
51:47
That's my recommendation that I'm going to go listen to after this.
51:51
It's an instrumental.
51:52
Sweet.
51:52
Well, I'm excited to hear that, though, because the regular wonders again, Dearly Beloved, beautiful work of art.
51:57
Yoko Shimura totally won the awards that she has won.
52:00
All right, we do need to head off of this and not spend forever, especially since I tell other people not to.
52:06
But as we go forward, Christian, what are some of the biggest messages or themes that stand out to you from this franchise?
52:11
And where do you think you align the most?
52:14
And where do you think you're, like, the most?
52:16
Like, I'm not sure about these.
52:17
As hokey as it is, hearts connecting to each other is one of the biggest themes of this series.
52:22
And once again, as hokey and convoluted as the Dialogue can get at times it actually means something if you actually let it mean something.
52:30
We are very connected to each other, entangled, as a certain other vulnerable gentleman would say.
52:36
And that's so much fun to think about an idea like that and go, how do I connect to you that I connect to this person in a different way?
52:43
What binds us together?
52:45
That is, it doesn't make sense for me to relate to this person in the same way because we have a different relationship and there's no such thing as a completely identical relationship to someone else because there's always going
52:56
to be something different about them versus this other person, even if your things are very similar.
53:00
Yeah, I enjoy that.
53:03
Issues with the messaging.
53:04
I'm sure there's something I could think of.
53:05
It's just not coming to my head right now.
53:09
Yeah, I mean, mostly agree with you.
53:10
It's a game largely about identity, and I like a lot of what it says.
53:13
I definitely.
53:14
I'm there for the cheesy friendship.
53:15
It's all about friendship.
53:16
And we're all connected, entangled with one another.
53:19
I'm there for that.
53:20
Love that.
53:21
To me, one of the things this game does best is when it talks about sacrifice, because it's a game about identity.
53:27
And you're like, who am I?
53:28
Am I my memories?
53:29
Am I my heart, whatever?
53:30
And then in the midst of these questions, these deep metaphysical whatever stuff going on in a convoluted, weird, Disney, stupid way, someone sacrifices themselves or has to give up themselves for their friends or something, and you're like, what
53:42
did they give up?
53:44
It actually, if you're trying to think deeper about it, which I like to do, makes you think a little bit more about, like, wait a minute, I'm sitting here trying to figure out am I my heart or body
53:53
or mind or whatever, and then I'm gonna sacrifice myself.
53:56
And it's like, well, what did I actually give up?
53:58
And that's a pretty big question.
53:59
So I think they asked that several different ways throughout the games that are really cool.
54:03
And it started with the first game for me, and I'm still like, every time, like, Mickey's gotta go to the realm of darkness or Aqua gives up herself for her friends.
54:09
And I'm like, wait, what does that actually mean?
54:11
What does that imply with all this other messaging that you've been throwing at me?
54:15
So that's what I'm most excited to get into is kind of looking at what does sacrifice really mean?
54:19
And I think we can.
54:20
We can have some fun conversations that me and Christian can and I don't know.
54:26
The things I'm probably most concerned about, it's not even because I disagree, but I feel like it loses the rabbit a little bit with itself when it talks about the good and bad in light and darkness.
54:37
Because sometimes they're the same thing, and sometimes.
54:39
No, you can be good and have the power of darkness.
54:42
But like, oh, wait a minute.
54:43
A minute ago you were talking about the darkness taking over the world and talking about how that's evil.
54:46
Like, I think they lose the rabbit themselves.
54:49
Or maybe it gets lost in language.
54:50
Translation that.
54:51
That seems possible too.
54:52
I think with that.
54:53
Normally that's something I'd be upset with, but much in the way that Star wars should be interpreted by certain things.
54:58
There is a way to utilize something that would look dark and actually use it to protect people in the way that Riku does.
55:05
And we're getting very narrow views of it from the beginning because people don't understand it that well.
55:10
And Riku actually lived through it, so he has an experience other people don't.
55:14
Versus Xehanort.
55:15
Like, I'm going to use this to control Riku's like, okay, I can't let this control me, but what can I use with it to actually protect other people?
55:20
Because I've seen what happens when I let it control me, and that's where I'm okay with it.
55:24
Much the same way, like, you know, using.
55:26
Is it possible to use the dark side without actually being dark?
55:29
Like, can I use force lightning to like, make this power converter jumpstart or something like that?
55:34
Yeah.
55:35
And yeah, again, I do think they're not consistent with their messaging on it.
55:39
But, like, some of that stuff I think I'm okay with.
55:42
I'm actually more okay with it in this than I am Star Wars a lot of the times.
55:46
Because in Star wars, it's still a choice.
55:47
And I'm like, yeah, no, the ends don't justify the means don't justify the ends to me.
55:51
Like, they never do.
55:52
But it never seems as though Riku has a choice.
55:54
Once he's in the darkness, it seems like he can't get rid of it.
55:57
And then it's like, well, what am I going to do with it now?
55:59
That darkness already is a part of who I am.
56:02
And that's when I'm like, yeah, okay, if you can't get rid of it, that's the only logical thing to do is how am I going to use this thing that I'm stuck with?
56:10
But again, I think they get kind of twisted themselves where they talk themselves into circles because they didn't know what they were doing when they started and then they change their minds but don't want to admit that they
56:21
changed the lore halfway through the series.
56:23
So I feel like we get a little bit of that, but it's fine.
56:25
Not at all.
56:27
All right, anything else you want to add or message, themes, whatever?
56:30
Before we head to a wrap up.
56:32
Here, I'm good to go.
56:33
Kicking off our wrap up, we're going to of course mention for our special followers who are on fourth wall, our real members.
56:40
They can hear me and Krishna answer special bonus question.
56:44
If they include a live action Disney adaptation in Kingdom Hearts 4, which would we prefer?
56:49
I mean, like, you know, like Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast or, you know, one of those Moana if they decide to go that route.
56:55
Because a lot of people are complaining that Quantumanium or whatever, the trailers, it's all realistic now.
56:59
It's supposed to be animated, gives it its charm.
57:01
And I just like, what if they decided to be funny and give us like live action Disney?
57:06
So Christian, I are going to answer which, which one?
57:08
If they did do that, we would be most okay with.
57:10
For now though, Christian, if you had to give a recommendation, what would you be recommending?
57:13
Everybody out there, go check out.
57:16
Yeah, Joshua has his, you know, twice a year reading through, playing through Kingdom Hearts.
57:22
Mine is rereading through the New Jedi Order and I'm at Traitor now.
57:25
And I probably recommended it before, but it's my favorite book in all of Star Wars.
57:29
Like the wrestling with the concepts of what is light, what is dark, and how can you actually use these things appropriately or inappropriately.
57:36
Love it so much.
57:37
Nice, Nice.
57:38
Mine's going to be a recommendation for myself that other people can do.
57:41
I'm going to go listen to that Emma Lee cover that Christian mentioned of Dearly Beloved.
57:46
I'm really excited for that.
57:47
So that's.
57:48
That's my recommendation.
57:50
I can't wait for you to be so disappointed in me.
57:52
Good times.
57:53
Well, with that, guys, if you are disappointed in us, let us know by rating reviewing our show.
57:56
Wherever you get our podcast.
57:57
If you're not disappointed in us, you can also let us know by doing that wherever you listen.
58:01
The more ratings and stuff gets the show noticed.
58:03
So we do appreciate you taking like 30 seconds to do that.
58:06
It actually helps the show a whole lot.
58:07
We also really appreciate it helps the show a lot when people support us financially.
58:11
So today we're shouting out Annette, Noel.
58:13
Thank you, Annette.
58:14
You're wonderful.
58:15
And guys, if you want your own shout out like Annette, you can become an official member of Systematic Ecology on our website.
58:19
There is a link to that in the show's description.
58:22
Same website.
58:23
You can get some free extra content without becoming a member.
58:26
You can buy some merch, T shirt, book bag, whatever.
58:28
You can leave a one time financial gift.
58:30
If you don't want to be a member just want to give a donation.
58:32
There's plenty of of other stuff you could do on the site.
58:34
We appreciate any support you give us even if it's just subscribing to the show.
58:38
Wherever you're listening now and hitting that like it all matters.
58:41
It all helps us.
58:42
We appreciate it so much.
58:44
As we release more of these episodes there will be a link for that whole section.
58:47
For now and below I'll just include a link to our other Kingdom Hearts episodes.
58:51
And of course we need to do one very important thing for us and remember that we are all a chosen people.
58:55
A geekdom of priests.
58:58
Sam.