Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom Lindsay Clancy 3 Tots Dead, Jury Shock @ Grim Crime Scene

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Mom Lindsay Clancy 3 Tots Dead, Jury Shock @ Grim Crime Scene · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Mom Lindsey Clancy's three taught
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: children are dead. The jury shocked when they visit the
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: grim crime scene. Remember all three children were herded into
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  Speaker 1: the basement and murdered with exercise bands. Good evening, I'm
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. Lindsey Clancy, Google's Ways to Kill.
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  Speaker 2: So this is top three worst crime scenes I've ever
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  Speaker 2: been to.
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  Speaker 3: But I've never seen police officers weeping at a crime
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  Speaker 3: scene the way I did that night.
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  Speaker 1: I hear the defense lawyer saying, she's been crying. She
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  Speaker 1: should be crying. They're dead.
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  Speaker 2: What did you do once you got inside the home?
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  Speaker 4: I started taking my boots off.
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  Speaker 2: Was there anything you noticed?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah? The house was really quiet?
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  Speaker 2: Is that unusual?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And when you realized it was really quiet, what did
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  Speaker 2: you do?
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  Speaker 4: I called out?
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  Speaker 2: And who did you call out to?
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  Speaker 4: Everyone?
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  Speaker 2: Did anyone answer?
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  Speaker 3: No?
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  Speaker 2: After you called out and no one answered, what did
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  Speaker 2: you do next?
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  Speaker 5: I think I don't know the order, but I called
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  Speaker 5: down in the basement and no one answered. And then
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  Speaker 5: I called Lindsay to see if she was home because
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  Speaker 5: I looked out and I couldn't see her car, but
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  Speaker 5: it's because it was dark and her car's black.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. So when you you say you you called down
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  Speaker 2: to the basement. When you approached the basement door, do
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  Speaker 2: you remember if it was open or shut? It was shut,
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  Speaker 2: So did you open it and yelled down? Yeah, and
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  Speaker 2: there was no response.
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  Speaker 4: Correct.
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  Speaker 1: That's for our friends at East Idaho News in the courtroom.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Court went down all day today and we are bringing
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you the latest from the courthouse. That is Lindsey Clancy's
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  Speaker 1: husband on the stand. When she heard the nine to
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  Speaker 1: one to one call, which we are not playing tonight
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  Speaker 1: with the dad, he asked the court not to release
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: it publicly. We have it, we're not playing it. It
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  Speaker 1: is just too upsetting. When she heard it, she breaks
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  Speaker 1: down in tears, but tears aside. The prosecution said she
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  Speaker 1: knew very well what she was doing, waiting, in fact,
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  Speaker 1: engineering her husband to leave the home to go get
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  Speaker 1: takeout food, then telling him to go to CBS pharmacy.
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  Speaker 1: He called her in the middle of the murders, according
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to the prosecution, and she acted normal on the phone.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: He is on the stand.
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  Speaker 2: Listen, After you called Lindsay and didn't get a response,
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  Speaker 2: What did you do next? I started checking upstairs and
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: way did you check upstairs?
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  Speaker 5: First the bathroom? I thought maybe they were taking baths, but.
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  Speaker 4: There's no one there.
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  Speaker 2: And then where did you go kid's bedrooms? Was there
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  Speaker 2: anyone in the kid's bedrooms?
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  Speaker 6: No?
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  Speaker 2: And then did you go to your bedroom?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And were you able to get into your bedroom right away? No?
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  Speaker 4: The door was locked. And that's when I knew something
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  Speaker 4: was wrong.
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  Speaker 2: When you unlocked the door to your bedroom, did you
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  Speaker 2: go in?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And what did you see when you opened the door
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  Speaker 2: and went in.
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  Speaker 5: I just saw blood everywhere and the window is open.
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  Speaker 5: It was everywhere it was. It looked like it was
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  Speaker 5: sprayed almost with like a hose. And there was a
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  Speaker 5: huge puddle in the middle of the room, and it
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  Speaker 5: was sprayed all over the pretty much every surface.
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  Speaker 4: I remember. It was on the doorknob.
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  Speaker 1: Dear Lord in heaven, can you imagine coming home? You
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  Speaker 1: call out for your children, nobody answers, everything's dark. You
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  Speaker 1: start looking for them, and in the words of Patrick Clancy,
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  Speaker 1: you see blood as if it was sprayed with a
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  Speaker 1: hose on the wall, blood as if it's sprayed with
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  Speaker 1: a hose. A garden hose. That courtroom was dead silent.
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  Speaker 1: You could have heard a pin drop. As he goes
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  Speaker 1: on in his testimony describing the discovery of his children's
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  Speaker 1: his three children's bodies with cords exercise bands still wrapped
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  Speaker 1: around their necks.
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  Speaker 2: So co and how did she look?
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  Speaker 4: She had a band around her neck?
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  Speaker 2: And was that an exercise band?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And do you recall whether she was what position she
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  Speaker 2: was in, whether face up or face down?
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  Speaker 4: She's face down?
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  Speaker 2: And when you saw her in that condition, what did
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  Speaker 2: you do?
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  Speaker 4: I immediately ran over and tried to take the band off.
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  Speaker 2: Were you able to get the band off?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Was she responsive?
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  Speaker 4: No? I saw Kllen and where was he?
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  Speaker 2: He was next to her, And how did he appear?
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  Speaker 5: He had a band around his neck? Sorry, he had
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  Speaker 5: a band around his neck.
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  Speaker 2: And did you remove that as well?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And do you recall what position he was in?
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  Speaker 4: Same as Cora?
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  Speaker 2: After you removed the band from Callen's neck, what did
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  Speaker 2: you do next?
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  Speaker 4: I tried to find Austin.
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  Speaker 2: And where did you go?
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  Speaker 5: I looked in the bathroom and on the other side
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  Speaker 5: of the couch, and then I went to the other
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  Speaker 5: side of the basement.
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  Speaker 4: News in my office.
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  Speaker 2: And when you saw Dawson, what condition was he in?
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  Speaker 4: I knew he was gone.
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  Speaker 2: And did he also have a band around his neck?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And did you remove that band?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: From our friends at East Idaho News, joining us an
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  Speaker 1: all star panel including Shannon Hill on the case from
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the very beginning at Shannon Hill News, Dave Mack, and
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  Speaker 1: doctor Catherine Berndorf.
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  Speaker 4: But two.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns joining us tonight, chief medical examiner in
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  Speaker 1: Terrance County. That's fort Worth, never a lack of business
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: in the morgue in Fort Worth. He is an esteemed
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  Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: he is the star of a hit new podcast, Mayhem
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  Speaker 1: in the Morgue. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us tonight. Explain to me how the exercise bands
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  Speaker 1: Mommy's exercise bands were used to strangle the three children
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  Speaker 1: and the pressure necessary the force of exertion to use them,
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  Speaker 1: as opposed to some other ligature such as a rope.
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  Speaker 7: Certainly, so to start with an exercise band is kind
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  Speaker 7: of this stretchy latex rubber, so they aren't stiff like
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  Speaker 7: a rope. You have to put pressure on it to
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  Speaker 7: hold that pressure on the neck.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I have a.
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  Speaker 7: CPR dummy of a baby here with me, and what
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  Speaker 7: it is is the ligature is placed around the neck
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  Speaker 7: and then pulled tightly. But then mom's got to maintain
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  Speaker 7: that pressure to get the not put into place, which
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  Speaker 7: is actually somewhat difficult to do. So once that's done,
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  Speaker 7: all you need is four point four pounds of pressure
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  Speaker 7: around the neck to cause enough pressure to blood not
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  Speaker 7: be getting to the brain. And as long as that's
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  Speaker 7: maintained for three to four minutes, you've.
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  Speaker 1: Killed the child.
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  Speaker 7: So it's a lot more difficult to use exercise bands
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  Speaker 7: when compared to a rope because of the stretchiness. So
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  Speaker 7: you have to really pull it taut and keep it taut,
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  Speaker 7: keep that pressure on the neck to kill the child
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  Speaker 7: or to kill whoever you're strangling with them.
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  Speaker 1: The significance of that, Josh Colesruy joining US veteran trial lawyer,
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  Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, former US attorney, star ofv podcast No Contest,
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  Speaker 1: The significance of what doctor Kimble Crown's has just said
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  Speaker 1: goes to intent. As you and I know as veteran
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  Speaker 1: trial lawyers, intent does not require a long drawn out plan.
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  Speaker 1: The example I would give jury is such as poisoning
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  Speaker 1: someone over a period of weeks and months till they
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  Speaker 1: finally kill over dead. It can be formed intent in
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  Speaker 1: the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment,
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  Speaker 1: the time it takes to pull a trigger much less
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  Speaker 1: the amount of time is described by doctor Kimmel Crown's
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  Speaker 1: it would require to exert force necessary to strangle asphyxiate
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  Speaker 1: all three children. That was time to form intent, is
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  Speaker 1: it not?
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  Speaker 8: Well, that's certainly what the prosecution is going to argue, Nancy.
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  Speaker 8: Now you know what we can't deny is that there
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  Speaker 8: was a killing of three innocent children, Cora, Dawson, and Callen.
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  Speaker 8: And there's nothing that the defense can do to try
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  Speaker 8: to brighten that picture. And when their father walked into
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  Speaker 8: that basement and discovered a horror that no parents should
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  Speaker 8: ever want to see, nothing I can say it can
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  Speaker 8: soften that. But killing and murder aren't automatically the same
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  Speaker 8: thing under the law. You know, murder requires a criminally
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  Speaker 8: responsible mind. That isn't a technicality. It's one of the
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  Speaker 8: oldest and most humane principles in American justice. So the
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  Speaker 8: question isn't simply whether Lindsay's hands committed these acts.
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  Speaker 4: We know they did.
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  Speaker 8: The question is whether her mind, ravaged by severe mental disease,
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  Speaker 8: could appreciate the wrongfulness of these acts and control her
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  Speaker 8: conduct when they occurred. Now, this woman didn't wake up
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  Speaker 8: one morning after our normal life and calmly decide she
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  Speaker 8: no longer wanted her children. She saw doctors nineteen times
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  Speaker 8: prior to this happening, and they prescribed her a whole
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  Speaker 8: litany of drugs. And I think you have them in
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  Speaker 8: alphabetic order, poetical border order. And you look at this.
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  Speaker 8: It is a whole pharmacy full of drugs that how
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  Speaker 8: could you not imagine that this could affect anybody taking
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  Speaker 8: these in a very negative way.
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  Speaker 1: Let me remind you that the voluntary use of drugs
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  Speaker 1: or alcohol is not a defense under the law. Now,
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  Speaker 1: hold on, we are not bloodthirsty monsters that want a
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  Speaker 1: sick woman to be put in gp general population. I
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  Speaker 1: don't want that. What I want is a true verdict
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  Speaker 1: and under the law, under the law, I'm not the law.
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  Speaker 1: The law is enacted by the population. The law states
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  Speaker 1: that if you knew the difference between right and wrong
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  Speaker 1: at the time of the incident, you're not insane period.
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  Speaker 1: Now she's claiming not guilty by reason of insanity. Straight
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  Speaker 1: out to Shannon Hill joining us star of Shannon Hill
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  Speaker 1: News on Insta. Shannon, thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 1: I understand that in addition to what we're learning right now.
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  Speaker 1: Clancy breaks down as a daw describes efforts to revive
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  Speaker 1: the children. What happened and I haven't even gotten to
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  Speaker 1: the jury going to the murder scene, but one thing
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  Speaker 1: at a time. What happened when a doctor described trying
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  Speaker 1: to revive the three children.
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  Speaker 9: As he was trying to revive the middle child, Dawson
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  Speaker 9: and Callum, both children were not showing any sort of
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  Speaker 9: brain function, and at one point they did get a
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  Speaker 9: pulse from Callum, the youngest, and that was when they
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  Speaker 9: also realized his heart was no longer beating and they
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  Speaker 9: could not survive. And yes, Lindsay Clancy was crying in
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  Speaker 9: the courtroom when this was being talked about.
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  Speaker 1: I'm very curious. It's hard to watch the jury like
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  Speaker 1: a hawk when you're watching everything else in the court room.
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  Speaker 1: I remember feeling like I was watching a tennis match
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  Speaker 1: when I had time to reflect upon it in court,
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  Speaker 1: because I've been watching the witness and looking at the jury,
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  Speaker 1: and watching the witness and looking at the jury like
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  Speaker 1: that the whole time. It's very difficult to also look
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: over at the defendant. I tried not to do that
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  Speaker 1: when I was trying a case. But I wonder how
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  Speaker 1: the jury reacted to Lindsey Clancy sobbing in court. Do
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  Speaker 1: we know, Shannon?
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  Speaker 9: They continue to ask the jury to not get emotionally
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  Speaker 9: attached to any of the evidence being shown, such as
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  Speaker 9: the pajamas, the children's jamas that were being shown, to
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  Speaker 9: remain emotionally detached from any and all of the testimony
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  Speaker 9: and evidence shown.
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  Speaker 2: One thing that I think.
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  Speaker 9: Is really compelling is when Patrick Fancy testifies on the
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  Speaker 9: stand and he says that he sees his wife on
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  Speaker 9: the ground. He goes to her and he asks her
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  Speaker 9: what happened. She says, I tried to kill myself, And
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  Speaker 9: then he asks her where are the children? She says
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  Speaker 9: in the basement, but then doesn't proceed to tell him
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  Speaker 9: to go help them, or go check on his children
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  Speaker 9: or run to them.
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  Speaker 1: You know they're in dire need, Shannon Hall, I find
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that there disturbing crime stories with Nancy Grace straight out
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: to Doctor Catherine Brundorf, reproductive psychiatrist. She is a postpartum
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: expert joining us. She is CEO and medical director at
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the Motherhood Center of New York, former board member Postpartum
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Support International. She's the founding director of the Paine Whitney
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Women's Program at the will Cornell Medical Center and author
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: of What No One Tells You, A Guide to Your
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  Speaker 1: Emotions from Pregnancy to Motherhood and more. Doctor Burndorf, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. You have worked extensively with
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: postpartum depression. Here we are not talking about postpartum depression,
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  Speaker 1: which I believe is very amongst new moms. We were
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: talking about postpartum psychosis, as you know, well, you know
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  Speaker 1: all about that. The law is very clear though that
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  Speaker 1: if she knew right from wrong at the time, no
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: defense is going to be able to save her. So
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I've been studying this list of drugs sleep, anxiety, sleep
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and anxiety, antidepressant mood stabilize our anxiety and sleep, sleep,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: antipsychotic sleep. It just that's a lot. But she did
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  Speaker 1: take them voluntarily.
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  Speaker 6: She may have, but typically as a psychopharmacologist, I'll tell
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  Speaker 6: you don't use all those drugs at the same time.
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  Speaker 6: One who's being treated for presumed illness is being treated
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  Speaker 6: with the best medications for that illness. So you go
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: at a time, you add more when needed, and sometimes
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: you're cross tapering them if something doesn't work. So while
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: I can't speak to this list or what she took,
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  Speaker 6: I can say that these beds don't cause psychosis. They
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: treat it, and they treat postpartum depression. They treat many things,
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  Speaker 6: as you pointed out, so it's hard to believe that
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  Speaker 6: anyone would be taking them all at the same time.
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  Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, and I don't have evidence that
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  Speaker 1: she was taking them all at the same time. I'd
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  Speaker 1: also like to point out it had been nineteen days
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  Speaker 1: since she had been released from psychiatric treatment at the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: time of the killings. Doctor Catherine Berndorf, I find it
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  Speaker 1: disturbing that when her husband finds her outside having jumped
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  Speaker 1: from a two story window. Let's show the home when
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: she jumped from that window the husband approached her. I'd
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  Speaker 1: like to see the back of the home because that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: shows me the window from which she jumped. There it
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: is if you can show me at a distance there
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  Speaker 1: he goes the top right window. I believe she didn't
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  Speaker 1: even mention the children. She says, I me me me, me, me,
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  Speaker 1: me me me. I tried to kill myself. He had
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  Speaker 1: to ask, well, what about the children, and then she
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  Speaker 1: told him they're in the basement. She didn't mentioned that
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  Speaker 1: they had exercise bands wrapped around their necks.
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  Speaker 6: Yes, if it's determined that she is psychotic at the
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  Speaker 6: time of what happened, this is entirely consistent with this
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  Speaker 6: medical disease also known as a mental illness called postpartum psychosis.
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  Speaker 6: It is entirely consistent where at some point you can
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  Speaker 6: be behaving absolutely normally or seemingly so, but have this
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  Speaker 6: belief in the back of your head that is intractable,
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: that is absolutely believed by you, as if you are
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: doing the right thing for your children. Again, I can't
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: speak to this, but we look at previous cases and
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: we know that that is the belief of someone in
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: the mind who's having a postpartum psychosis. They believe they
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: are doing the right thing, potentially saving their children from
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: some horrible fate. So this is consistent based on what
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: I know as an expert and what I've seen.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: What is postpartum psychosis as opposed to postpartum depression.
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: Depression is when one is struggling with low mood, disinterest
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: in things, not sleeping, eating, well, a bunch of somatic
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: different kinds of symptoms. Psychosis is a break with reality.
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  Speaker 6: It is a completely different thing, different realm. And I
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  Speaker 6: think that it's not always easy to see. People aren't
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: running around, you know, stark, raving mad. That's not what
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: you see. You can see perfectly behaved people who have
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: this kind of circumscribed in the back of the head.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: Belief that can be shared may not be shared. They
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: may be behaving normally one minute and hours later, not
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: because they are acting on potentially delusions, hallucinations, command hallucinations
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  Speaker 6: to say, potentially you need to kill these kids to
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: save them. That is possible. We know it to be true,
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  Speaker 6: We've heard it before. These are distinctly different illnesses. Postpartum
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: depression one in five, postpartum psychosis one to two per thousand.
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  Speaker 6: It is uncommon, but it is there, and it is
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: deadly when not treated.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So very different.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: To Claudia King joining US former law enforcement officer, domestic
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: violence expert, host of No Contest podcasts and star off
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Strong Enough podcast. Claudia thank you, Thank you for being
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: with us. You can find her at Claudia m as
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: in mother King dot com. Claudia, I'm gonna speak what
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: no one else has said yet, because I've heard a
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: lot about the mother's alleged psychosis and what she went through.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about the dead victims, the three children,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: what they went through. Nobody is talking about three lives gone,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: three children brutally murdered. Do I need to replay for you,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Claudia King, where the dad said when he went in,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it looked like someone had sprayed the wall with a
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: garden hose, sprayed the wall with blood. Why is nobody
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: talking about the terror the children went through as they
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: were herded into the basement and one by one murdered
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: by mommy, who had to exert intense control, an intense
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: weight to use these elastic bands, which are as I said, elastic,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: which are pliant. It's like strangling somebody with a rubber
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: band as opposed to a ligature. It takes a lot
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of effort in force. The last thing they saw was
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: their mother strangling them. Her face was it contorted? Was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: she having to exert herself to murder them? Why is
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: nobody talking about them, Claudia.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Because that's really Nancy.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to talk about what those children suffered through,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: so we're going to talk about it right now. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: think the fact that Dawson was found in a different
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: room is because he ran away. He saw what was happening,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and he tried to get away from what his mother
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: was doing to his siblings and Nancy. The other thing
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: I find very interesting is we know at least two
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: of the children were found face down. She did not
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: want to look at their faces when she did this
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: to them. She didn't want them to see her face
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: when she did this to them, and I think that
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: is very telling. And when you put that band around
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: the neck, they're still struggling for seconds to up to
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: a minute before they become unconscious, so she's having to
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: deal with that as well. What these children went through
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: is absolutely horrible, and for their father to have to
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: find them that way and take those bands from off
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: their necks is absolutely horrendous.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: She hadnon I wonder how the jury reacted when the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: evidence came out that she didn't mention or direct her
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: husband to the children, that she only talked about herself,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: and that the children as Claudia King just rightly pointed
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: out were faced down, they couldn't see their mother's face.
• 23:30
  Speaker 9: Well, we don't know what the jury did and said,
• 23:33
  Speaker 9: but what I do know is that the public reaction
• 23:36
  Speaker 9: to that is very upsetting. They are very they are
• 23:43
  Speaker 9: very concerned that there was no emotion there with Lindsay Nancy,
• 23:47
  Speaker 9: that she was just so detached from her children that
• 23:50
  Speaker 9: she just let her She allowed her husband to wait
• 23:52
  Speaker 9: with her while the paramedic came, that she never gave
• 23:55
  Speaker 9: him heads up that the children are in the basement
• 23:58
  Speaker 9: and they need your help. And that is where the
• 24:00
  Speaker 9: public is the most shocked.
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: I ran downstairs and went outside. I just looked around
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: in the backyard below that window, and I.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Saw Lindsay And whait did you see her?
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: She was face up in the backyard.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And where in the backyard was she.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: At the bottom of the window? Where was she in
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: relation to that window directly below it?
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Down here by the window?
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, she had deep cuts on her wrists and
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: she had a red line across her neck. I wasn't
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: sure what it was at first, but she cut her neck.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: From our friends at East Idaho News straight to doctor
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns Chief Medical Examiner Terran County. How many cases
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: have I seen. I'm trying to figure out how many.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I can't count them all. Where someone commits homicide and
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: then claim they were gonna kill themselves but they didn't,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: over over and over can wipe out the whole family.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: And I've seen this in men and women. But when
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it comes to killing themselves, somehow that doesn't work.
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: Yes, it does happen occasionally, especially when parents kill their children.
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: They attempt suicide. Often you see it when boyfriends murder
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: their wives or something like that situation, murder the girlfriends.
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: I mean they attempt to cover up the fact that
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: they did it by attempting suicide. Often their suicide attempts
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: are superficial, so they don't cut deep into a vessel,
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: or they don't cut deep enough to kill themselves, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 7: you get this injuries, but you don't see them dying.
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: So you got to wonder where they really meaning to
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: kill themselves. Now, jumping out of a second story window,
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: if she had gone head first, she might have achieved
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: what she was going for. But my assumption is she
• 25:55
  Speaker 7: went feet first, and that's why she's a paraplegic. At
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: this time, so again another unsuccessful suicide attempt, and you
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: have to wonder, did she really mean to die?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Shannon Hill, What is her vocation? What does Lindsey Clancy
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: do for a living? When she worked?
• 26:13
  Speaker 9: So she was a labor and delivery nurse, So she
• 26:18
  Speaker 9: was and is very familiar with women who are going
• 26:21
  Speaker 9: through pregnancy delivery and it's.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Part of so let me understand this to doctor Catherine
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and Berndorf, Doctor Burndorf, this is a woman that was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: in and out of the pediatric unit every day and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: labor and delivery and she murders her three children. I
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: am tempted to point out the irony of that, but
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I'm more interested in it in a probative sense. What
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: if anything, does it prove regarding her knowledge of how
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to kill someone and how not to kill herself.
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: I would reframe it and say, what you're seeing is
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: the idea that someone who has knowledge of labor and delivery,
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: or someone in the field the profession didn't know what
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: was happening. That there's not enough education. I can't tell
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: you the number of people we treat at the Motherhood Center,
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: professionals in the field and other very respectable fields who
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: don't know what's happening to them, their stigma, their shame.
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: There's lack of education, lack of access to treatment. We
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: see this all the time, and when they get to
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: us at the Motherhood Center, they've tried to get help many,
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: many times. They've been turned away, their insurances haven't paid,
• 27:39
  Speaker 6: and they are frankly just burned out of trying and
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: still ill. But they're defeated and it's very hard to
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: access this.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: So there's nothing.
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: You know, it is ironic, as you put it, but
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: understandable from where I sid that this can happen to
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: anyone in the field or anywhere else.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Dave mac joining me Crimes towards investigative reporter detail for
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: doctor Catherine Berndorf how Clancy had sought treatment.
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: Nancy Lindsey Clancy sought treatment many times for how she
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: felt psychologically speaking, depression and things like that. In particular,
• 28:29
  Speaker 10: Nancy beyond the thirteen prescriptions that doctors were describing, she
• 28:35
  Speaker 10: checked herself in to McLain Hospital for impatient psychiatric treatment.
• 28:40
  Speaker 10: We're talking days before this event happened January first to
• 28:46
  Speaker 10: January fifth of twenty twenty. She was in the hospital,
• 28:49
  Speaker 10: her medications were being adjusted. She requested discharge before the
• 28:56
  Speaker 10: end of treatment. So she wanted help, and she sought
• 28:59
  Speaker 10: out help. But then before clinicians cleared her to go,
• 29:03
  Speaker 10: she checked herself out and she was discharged and went home.
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: And we know what happened after that. Previous to that, Nancy,
• 29:11
  Speaker 10: she had constantly been seeking some type of treatment for
• 29:15
  Speaker 10: the way she felt and ended where we ended.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: More of what Dad says, he observes when he found
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: his wife outside that night.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: What did the defendants say at that time about what
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: had happened with the children.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: She didn't talk about our kids. She talked about what
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: she went through.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And what did she say about what she went through?
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: She said she heard a man's voice telling her that
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: if she didn't do it now, she would lose her
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: chance or something like that.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And did she also tell you that she had had
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: a moment of psychosis?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I don't recall from our friends at East Idaho News
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Shannon Hill
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: joining us from Shannon Hill News. Shannon, the jury shocked
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: when they visit the crime the scene that was once
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: a happy home. Explain what happened. That's a very unusual move.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I saw it in the murdog case, State Versus Alex Murdogg.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I saw it in the O. J. Simpson case, the
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Karen Reid case. It is fraught, fraught with potential danger
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: what happened, Shannon.
• 30:45
  Speaker 9: That's right, Nancy. They do this in very few cases,
• 30:48
  Speaker 9: but with this particular case, they wanted the jury to
• 30:51
  Speaker 9: take a ride from the CBS that Patrick Clancy had
• 30:56
  Speaker 9: gone to that day and then to the three V
• 30:58
  Speaker 9: restaurant where Patrick Clancy also picked up with that Lindsay
• 31:02
  Speaker 9: had requested him to pick up, and then back to
• 31:04
  Speaker 9: the house, and that would give them an idea of
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: how long a trip like that would take and how
• 31:09
  Speaker 9: long Patrick Fancy would be out of the house that
• 31:12
  Speaker 9: they were living in in Duxbury. So, you know, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: think being that close to the scene and that close
• 31:18
  Speaker 9: to the heart I understand the inside and outside of
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: what took place, gives the jury a really strong picture
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: of exactly what happened to those children that day.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Shannon. I'm showing you State's exhibit number forty one. It
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is a view of apparently carpeted steps leading down from
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the main dwelling area to the basement. I think the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: significance of this, much to Josh Colerid's chagrin, will be
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that with every step, another second passes for her to
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: rethink her murderous plan. What is the claim of the state.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: How did she get the children her into the basement
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and one child was hiding in daddy's office, which was
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: also in the basement. What is significant about these steps, Shannon.
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: Yes, Stanzy. Now keep in mind, this was a finished basement,
• 32:14
  Speaker 9: so this was like the family's second family room. They
• 32:17
  Speaker 9: would go downstairs. There was a gym down there, there
• 32:20
  Speaker 9: were children's toys down there. The husband, Patrick Flancy, had
• 32:24
  Speaker 9: an office down there. So it was very common for
• 32:26
  Speaker 9: these kids to go to the basement to see their
• 32:29
  Speaker 9: parents or play. And so another trip down to the
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: basement didn't seem out of the ordinary to the children.
• 32:36
  Speaker 9: And you're correct in saying that there was time for
• 32:39
  Speaker 9: Lindsey Fancy to change her mind, going down the stairs,
• 32:43
  Speaker 9: bringing all three kids, making sure to have those exercise bands.
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: This was all the process, a process that she had
• 32:50
  Speaker 9: to think through.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Conducting in States Exhibit one hundred, which gives you an
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: idea of how many exhibits there are. We're already on
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: one hundred in the case is done, yet court went
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: all day long. You see clutter in the basement. It
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't look to me like a play area. It looks
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: like leftover furniture and other artifacts are down there. But
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I do see on the floor the baby's pjs and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: exercise cords. Where the pgs cut off the children in
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: an effort to save their lives or why are they
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: separate from the child? Shannon, that is.
• 33:33
  Speaker 9: A possibility that the pgs were taken off before the
• 33:35
  Speaker 9: strangulation happened. I know that with the youngest, Hellen, he
• 33:41
  Speaker 9: was in a diaper when the paramedics found him. So
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: when the paramedics got to the house and went downstairs,
• 33:49
  Speaker 9: they said that Callen was in a diaper and not
• 33:52
  Speaker 9: in any clothing, So the pajamas were taken off, and
• 33:55
  Speaker 9: that again is a process that took Wendy Fancy time
• 33:58
  Speaker 9: to do strang strangling the child.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I also noticed an exhibit one zero seven. It's the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: bedroom window from which Clancy jumped. Yourrs at the scene
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: were able to view the height of the window for
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: themselves as the top right window, and when you look
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: carefully at exhibit one zero seven, you see blood at
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the lower left side of the window. Did that mean
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: she was holding on because it was her wrists that
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: were bleeding. Was she holding on by with both hands
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: to lessen the fall? Has anybody thought about that? Josh
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Coles rude.
• 34:46
  Speaker 8: Well, you know, it certainly is evidence that she wasn't
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: in her right mind, and it's also shows that maybe
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: this wasn't part of some plan.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 34:59
  Speaker 8: I know that the prosecution is making it seem like
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: planning is synonymous with sanity, but psychosis doesn't always erase
• 35:09
  Speaker 8: a person's ability to perform steps and sequence right. I mean,
• 35:14
  Speaker 8: sometimes a person does something and like they imagine a
• 35:18
  Speaker 8: building is on fire when there is no fire, and
• 35:22
  Speaker 8: you know, she does things in sequence right, But that
• 35:25
  Speaker 8: doesn't mean that she's in her right mind. Now, every
• 35:28
  Speaker 8: movement may appear organized, it may appear like she has
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: a plan, but it doesn't mean that she isn't suffering
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: from psychosis.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, I hear your argument. That's what the defense is
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: going to argue. The jury also rode by I believe
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: not only the restaurant they didn't go in, the restaurant
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: where he got takeout, and the CBS where Clancy sent
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: him to pick up prescription.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Listen, is that you entering the store?
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And that section you had to on the right, is
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: that the pediatric medication section?
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, And while you're in that section looking for the medication,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: do you do something?
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: I called Lindsay?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: And why did you call Lindsay because.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: What we were looking for wasn't there.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: What was her demeanor during the call.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: She's pretty quiet. It sounded like she was busy.
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: I remember hanging up, thinking she's probably in the middle
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: of giving bats or something like that.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: At five fifty four fifteen pm set you coming in
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: behind that other couple there, Yeah, And what are you
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: doing at that point when you're looking at the bags?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I think I was looking for the bag with my
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: name on it and the order that was listed under
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: your name and phone number. Correct.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: I think Lindsay ordered it, right.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: But do you recall whose name it was under when
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: you picked it up.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: I don't recall specifically, but it could have been not.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: The jury could determine for themselves how far it was
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: between the restaurant, the pharmacy and home. And remember this
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: is an eron to errands that she sent him on,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: and as soon as he left, she killed the children.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear what Duxbury officer Vincent k.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Hill told the jury, and that's from our friends at
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: East Idaho News.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Do you see him as you're going down the basement stairs?
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And where's he coming from? And where's he going to?
• 37:35
  Speaker 11: It's coming from my left heading to my right.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And what is his demeanor?
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: He was screaming?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And as you came down the stairs, did he point
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: in a direction?
• 37:46
  Speaker 11: Yes?
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Where did he point to to the left side? And
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: is that where you headed?
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And when you went to the left, did you see
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: two children on the floor in that area of the basement.
• 37:55
  Speaker 11: Yes?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: And what did you do?
• 37:58
  Speaker 11: I checked the pulse of the five year old girl
• 38:02
  Speaker 11: and passed that information along and then when fire came
• 38:05
  Speaker 11: on scene, I then was backing away because fire was
• 38:08
  Speaker 11: gonna start taking over taking care of the five year
• 38:10
  Speaker 11: old girl.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: I then backed into the infit he was on the ground.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: You checked her for a pulse? Did she have a pulse?
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: And you said fire came down and started taking over.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Was that firefighters from Duxbury Fire Department?
• 38:24
  Speaker 11: Yes, ma'am.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: And you said you started backing up. Is that when
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: you bumped into Callen Clancy.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And at that point in time, what did you do next?
• 38:33
  Speaker 11: I checked Collen's pulse and did he have a pulse?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: We saw Callen and Cora face up on the ground.
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: Immediately jumped on the radio to ask for two additional
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: ambulances that we needed more help and we Patrick ran
• 38:47
  Speaker 8: to Cora and I went to Callen.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: While you were working on Callen, did you notice any
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: injuries on him? Yes, he had deep strangulation marks around
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: the entire circumference.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Of his neck. What does that mean, Doctor Kendall Crown's
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: strangulation marks around the entire circumference of the baby's neck.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: We're talking about cow and the baby.
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: So it means the impression from the ligature or the
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: exercise band that are completely around the neck circumferentially. Because
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: of the pressure of the band itself, it cuts into
• 39:21
  Speaker 7: the skin and makes kind of a deep red abrasion,
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: and that's known as a ligature mark. When you see
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: them circumferential about the neck, it means it's completely around
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: the neck, which is consistent one being tied off around
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: the baby's neck to strangle them.
• 39:37
  Speaker 12: He's laying on his back, his head was tilted to
• 39:39
  Speaker 12: the right hand side, looked at him kind of in
• 39:44
  Speaker 12: the face area on Once we got closer and his
• 39:48
  Speaker 12: face was white, gray, lips were blue, eyes were bloodshot.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: Looked like blood vessels were popped in his eyes.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Did you notice any injuries to his neck?
• 40:00
  Speaker 12: Seeing that, my first instinct was to kind of grab
• 40:03
  Speaker 12: his head and tilted to the side, see if I
• 40:05
  Speaker 12: can get a pulse. But I mean, based on my
• 40:07
  Speaker 12: training experience from previous incidents, I knew it wasn't gonna
• 40:11
  Speaker 12: be good, So I moved ahead. That's where I observed
• 40:15
  Speaker 12: some red marks on that right hand side.
• 40:17
  Speaker 7: I noticed she kind of like she had some blood
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: vessels around her eyes.
• 40:23
  Speaker 11: Did you make any observations of the color of her skin.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: That was kind of pale bluish?
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Did she have a pulse?
• 40:33
  Speaker 12: No?
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: Was she breathing?
• 40:35
  Speaker 12: No?
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: We just started hearing loud screams.
• 40:38
  Speaker 12: Upon his observation of us, myself an officer Hall, he
• 40:42
  Speaker 12: proceeded to head in our direction leaving that room, and
• 40:46
  Speaker 12: at that point he looked up and he screamed, she
• 40:49
  Speaker 12: killed the kids.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: She killed the effing kids. He was screaming, Claudia King,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: have you ever heard the phrase jury nullification?
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: I absolutely have Nancy, and I could definitely see that
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: happening here where the jury looks at the horrific nature
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: of these crimes and says, we don't really care what
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: she was going through. She killed these kids and she's
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: going to have to pay for that.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: See. I think that's beast Awkwards. I hear what you're saying,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Shannon Hill joining us, Shannon Hill News. In my mind,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: jury nullification of this case would be the jury knowing
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: that she intended to commit this act, that there was
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: pre planning, there was a scheme, there was time to
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: form intent premeditation under the law. But the babies are
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: not in the courtroom to be heard. All they see
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: is mommy crying and your heart goes out to her.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: She's paralyzed, and with her sitting there crying and frail
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: and pitiful, the dream is say, you know what, the
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: state proved its case, but we don't care. We're finding
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: her not guilty.
• 42:13
  Speaker 9: Well, I think with the combination of the amount of
• 42:16
  Speaker 9: times Lindsay Clancy reached out to medical professionals for help,
• 42:21
  Speaker 9: was on a number of different medications called the Suicide Hotline.
• 42:25
  Speaker 9: Her husband Patrick had her go to an inpatient treatment
• 42:31
  Speaker 9: just a couple of weeks before this happened. It is
• 42:36
  Speaker 9: an argument for the fact that she was dealing with
• 42:39
  Speaker 9: some sort of postpartum psychosis or bipolar disorder, and I
• 42:45
  Speaker 9: think that that is going to be the defense's biggest
• 42:47
  Speaker 9: argument was, Look, we have this woman who was reaching
• 42:50
  Speaker 9: out countless times for help and wasn't getting the exact
• 42:54
  Speaker 9: help that she needed.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: there is a legal theory called newly discovered evidence that
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: can still be brought in a trial for either side.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Dial seven eight one nine, three four five six five six. Tonight,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: we honor K nine d D now protected while serving
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: with Jackson County Sheriff's Michigan. Thanks to vested Interest in
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: k Nines, d D now has a bullet and stab
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: proof protective vest. These life saving vests not standard, they
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: cost up to twelve hundred dollars each. Vested Interest in
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Knines donates these vests. Narcan kits first aid equipment to
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: canines all across the country and they have proudly vested
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: nearly seven thousand law enforcement canines help protect canines who
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: risk their lives protecting us. We remember American hero Investigator
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Anthony Freeman, Bibb County Sheriffs, Georgia, killed in the line
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: of duty after seven years, leaving behind his wife now widow, Jessica,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: and two children, Braden and Blakelin. Sentenced to life without dad.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: American Hero Investigator Anthony Freeman. Thank you to our guests,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Grace signing off for tonight. I'll see you tomorrow night,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: and until then, good night.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: Grand