Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 51: Your Leadership Problem Might Be a Communication Problem - Keith Greer

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Ep. 51: Your Leadership Problem Might Be a Communication Problem - Keith Greer · Glovisor Podcast

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Speaker 1: What if the biggest obstacle to your leadership isn't your strategy,
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Speaker 1: but the conversations you're having every single day. Welcome to
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Speaker 1: the Glovisor podcast, where we explore personal growth, communication, and
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Speaker 1: personal development through real conversations with people that make an impact.
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Speaker 1: Our guest has spent more than four decades helping leaders, organizations,
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Speaker 1: and families onlock power communication. As an executive coach, trainer,
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Speaker 1: and leadership expert, he specializes in building trusts, strengthening relationships,
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Speaker 1: and using conversational strategies to help people become more effective leaders.
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Speaker 2: Glovisor welcomes Keith.
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Speaker 3: Greer, Joe, good morning, How are you great things? How
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Speaker 3: are you good? Good? Thanks for inviting me in. You're welcome.
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Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to the conversation. Good me too.
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Speaker 2: So Keith, please share with us a little bit more
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Speaker 2: what you do.
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Speaker 3: So I walked Joe in the executive coaching space, and
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Speaker 3: I work with some clients in the corporate world, not
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Speaker 3: for profit. And when I share a little bit more
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Speaker 3: about my background in history, this will make sense. I've
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Speaker 3: developed a bit of a niche in working with family
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Speaker 3: owned businesses, which is a fascinating, absolutely fascinating, complex conversation,
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Speaker 3: to be in of that intersection between good business practices
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Speaker 3: and our family stuff and just have a group of
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Speaker 3: clients that I enjoy, I have fun. I'm blessed. I'm
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Speaker 3: one of those guys Joe who most days work doesn't
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Speaker 3: even feel like work. Kind of a natural extension of
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Speaker 3: who I am.
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Speaker 2: When you do what you love, you don't work a
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Speaker 2: day in your life.
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Speaker 3: There it is, that's it. I get to live that.
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Speaker 3: I'm very lucky. What inspire you to pursue this path?
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Speaker 3: As you said my intro, I've been doing helping work.
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Speaker 3: I like to say I've been in the helping world
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Speaker 3: for over forty years. So it started in the more
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Speaker 3: traditional clinical world. I was a clinical social worker. Family
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Speaker 3: therapist was really the first kind of modality that I
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Speaker 3: fell in love with, and there's connections between that and
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Speaker 3: my moving to coaching because family therapy was a place
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Speaker 3: where I got one of my first messages in the
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Speaker 3: helping world that I don't need to be an expert
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Speaker 3: on anybody. In fact, don't be I don't know anything
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Speaker 3: about what's best for the family in front of me.
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Speaker 3: I need to be an expert on how to facilitate
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Speaker 3: family therapy, the families the expert on themselves. And that
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Speaker 3: was a very different message at that time in my
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Speaker 3: career than where my career started, where I did get
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Speaker 3: a bit of a message in the helping world about
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Speaker 3: kind of being responsible for fixing people and making sure
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Speaker 3: things go well. And I remember, even early on, like
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Speaker 3: this is in my early twenties, feeling that that was
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Speaker 3: not right. It just felt kind of funky, like who
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Speaker 3: am I to know what's best for any other human
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Speaker 3: bank So did the family therapy thing for the first
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Speaker 3: half of that forty plus years. Loved it, loved it,
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Speaker 3: loved it. And then I started reading about coaching, and
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Speaker 3: it was again it was like the next step in
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Speaker 3: this journey of finding a way of being, of playing
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Speaker 3: a significant role in the lives of folks. But I
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Speaker 3: don't have the answer. I don't need to have the answer.
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Speaker 3: In fact, to this day, Joe, I often joke with
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Speaker 3: my clients that on most days I can barely keep
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Speaker 3: my you know what together as a human being, never
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Speaker 3: mind thinking that I have some magic answer. And it's
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Speaker 3: also a challenging part of doing this work because many
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Speaker 3: people don't understand when they come to coaching. They don't
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Speaker 3: understand what coaching is, and they do think they are
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Speaker 3: going to sit with someone who's going to tell them
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Speaker 3: what to do. And I adore the fact that I
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Speaker 3: don't and I adore the fact that I don't want
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Speaker 3: because it's much easier for me than thinking I know
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Speaker 3: what's best for people, and much more importantly, it allows
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Speaker 3: me to be in a conversation with folks where they
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Speaker 3: discover their strengths and their capacities, and they discover that
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Speaker 3: even at moments when they don't think they have their answers,
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Speaker 3: they do, they just don't know that they have them.
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Speaker 3: And so I get to do that conversation in helping
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Speaker 3: them shine a light on that and discover where they
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Speaker 3: want to move with their personal or professional lives. Pretty
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Speaker 3: cool conversation to be in.
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Speaker 2: Now, what's the difference between being a therapist and a coach?
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Speaker 3: Awesome question? So I'm going to give this is a
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Speaker 3: bit of a simplistic answer, but I think your audience
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Speaker 3: will get it. It's always made sense to me. So
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Speaker 3: one difference is I call it the temporal quality, like
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Speaker 3: where in time and space does the conversation take place. Now,
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Speaker 3: this is a very general way of describing therapy, because
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Speaker 3: therapy can be lots of different things these days, but
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Speaker 3: in general, or like when I entered the therapy world,
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Speaker 3: therapy took place starting in the past and moving to
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Speaker 3: the present. Past losses, hurts, trauma, hopefully helping a person
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Speaker 3: get to a better level of functioning. As they would
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Speaker 3: define that today past depressant coaching starts today and move
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Speaker 3: to the future. So in the purest form of coaching,
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Speaker 3: you'll sometimes hear coaches say I don't go into the past.
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Speaker 3: Now I would tell you that that is not necessarily
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Speaker 3: true for me, but there's a big butt going into
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Speaker 3: the past with my clients is looking for strength and
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Speaker 3: capacity then bringing it to the present. So we're not
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Speaker 3: spending a whole lot of time in the past. We're
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Speaker 3: not digging into I trust everybody has a past. I
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Speaker 3: trust everybody has positives and negatives in their past. This
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Speaker 3: is a conversation that starts today. Where are you today, client,
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Speaker 3: what's your vision for where you would like to be?
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Speaker 3: And now we're going to move to the future, So
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Speaker 3: pass to present therapy, present to future coaching. The other
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Speaker 3: difference is in some traditional ways is that there can
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Speaker 3: be components of therapy that is more process oriented. So
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Speaker 3: we are spending time talking about feelings, processing through feelings
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Speaker 3: because for many people who find themselves in therapy, that
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Speaker 3: is an incredibly worthwhile conversation. So let me just be
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Speaker 3: really clear here. I'm not saying one conversation is better
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Speaker 3: than the other. It's what conversation is a person looking for.
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Speaker 3: So a little bit more process coaching, a bit more
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Speaker 3: action oriented. We're not spending time processing through thoughts and
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Speaker 3: feelings with again a little bit of a caveat to
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Speaker 3: help people increase levels of awareness of maybe assumptions that
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Speaker 3: hold them back, things like that, but it is action oriented.
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Speaker 3: Where are you today? So in my world of doing
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Speaker 3: leadership work with folks, it's where are you today and
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Speaker 3: your practice of leadership? How would you define that and
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Speaker 3: describe that? Where would you like to be? What's the
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Speaker 3: vision for the future, and let's start plotting a course
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Speaker 3: for you to make action oriented choices that get you there.
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Speaker 2: Who is your ideal client? You mentioned a family business,
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Speaker 2: but is there by size of employees, how much money
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Speaker 2: they are on a yearly basis? Can you explain to
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Speaker 2: us a little bit more about that.
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Speaker 3: If you would ask me that question at different times
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Speaker 3: in my career. Obviously, I'd probably have some different answers, Matt,
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Speaker 3: this really great place in my career and just this
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Speaker 3: place in my life. This might sound trite. I hope
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Speaker 3: it doesn't. I'm looking for people who are fun. I
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Speaker 3: want to have fun in the work. So here's how
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Speaker 3: I might define fun fun is I want to be
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Speaker 3: in front of someone who's courage. I want to be
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Speaker 3: in front of somebody who is really curious about themselves
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Speaker 3: and curious both about their strengths the things that move
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Speaker 3: them forward, as well as a level of curiosity of
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Speaker 3: you know, maybe what are some things that are holding
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Speaker 3: me back that have made it difficult for me to
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Speaker 3: move in the direction I want to move in. I'm
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Speaker 3: looking for people who are and this it takes such
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Speaker 3: courage who are invested in personal development, personal awareness in
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Speaker 3: today's world. In my work today, Joe, I'm clear, I
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Speaker 3: put myself out there as an executive coach with a
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Speaker 3: bit of a niche in leadership development. I would be
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Speaker 3: lying if I said in my work, I don't hear
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Speaker 3: my family therapy voice sometimes because here's a bias I
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Speaker 3: bring to my work. I bring specifically the leadership work,
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Speaker 3: which goes back to I want to be in front
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Speaker 3: of people who are rageously self aware. To me, at
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Speaker 3: the end of the day, leadership does nothing more than
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Speaker 3: a relationship. It's a relationship you exist in with your team.
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Speaker 3: The rules that govern relationships in our personal lives are
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Speaker 3: wholly relevant to the rules that govern the relationships between
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Speaker 3: the leader and the people they lead. My experience with
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Speaker 3: leaders if I think of times where, let's say a
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Speaker 3: few weeks ago, I was in a conversation with a
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Speaker 3: client of mine who's in a leadership role, and he
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Speaker 3: was feeling incredibly stuck. Those were his words. He needed
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Speaker 3: to have a very difficult conversation with somebody on his team,
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Speaker 3: and he was hemming and haweing and dragging his feet,
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Speaker 3: and he was worried about it and worried about how
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Speaker 3: he would sound and if it's going to upset the person,
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Speaker 3: and you, well, I say the right things to the
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Speaker 3: point where he wasn't having the conversation other than in
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Speaker 3: his own head, but was not having it with the
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Speaker 3: person on his team. So a stuck point like that,
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Speaker 3: what is that for leaders? I would make the argument
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Speaker 3: a steck point like that is not that they haven't
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Speaker 3: read the most updated book on leadership. That's our stuff,
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Speaker 3: like that's old stuff. That's assumptions we have about conversations,
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Speaker 3: assumptions we have about who we're supposed to be that
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Speaker 3: fears about being in a conversation that's very emotional, or
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Speaker 3: conflict coming into the room, or what if this person
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Speaker 3: gets upset? Those are some tapes and narratives that for
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Speaker 3: most of us go back pretty far. Now again, some
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Speaker 3: have said to me, but Keith, then aren't you just
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Speaker 3: describing therapy. I would make the argument good coaching that
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Speaker 3: challenges people to look at assumptions and gain awareness sometimes
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Speaker 3: does skirt the therapy world. And I'm pretty comfortable with that.
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Speaker 3: And I believe that the most powerful leaders are people
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Speaker 3: who have not read all of the leadership books. They
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Speaker 3: are people who are very self aware, put invest a
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Speaker 3: lot of time and energy into looking at that part
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Speaker 3: of themselves, being curious about that part. Man, if you
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Speaker 3: can get me that person that that just I just
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Speaker 3: adore that work. That's the best.
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Speaker 2: If one of our listeners wanted to work with you,
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Speaker 2: what would that journey look like?
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Speaker 3: It would start with an initial conversation and you know what,
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Speaker 3: I say to folks in preparation for coming to that conversation,
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Speaker 3: is you need to come to that conversation having made
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Speaker 3: no commitment to anything beyond that conversation, Because quite honestly,
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Speaker 3: that's how I'm coming to the conversation. As much as
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Speaker 3: the client has a need and an obligation to determine
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Speaker 3: maybe in this conversation, do I seem to be the
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Speaker 3: kind of person they would want to work with. I'm
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Speaker 3: I'm involved in a in a similar internal conversation show
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Speaker 3: for myself. Am I sitting across from somebody who is,
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Speaker 3: to me, is sounding and looking coachable, who's ready to
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Speaker 3: do some work? Am I across from somebody who understands
12:06
Speaker 3: back to your question a little while ago, the difference
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Speaker 3: between coaching and therapy? And are we clear that person
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Speaker 3: in myself that they're looking for coaching not therapy? And
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Speaker 3: again not that either conversation is better than the other,
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Speaker 3: They're just there's different and it is. You know, I've
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Speaker 3: had my experience of folks who come, we have this
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Speaker 3: first conversation and we reach the conclusion at the end
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Speaker 3: of it they're looking a little bit more for therapy.
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Speaker 3: Right then, I'm not the guy that's it. So we're
12:36
Speaker 3: gonna take a look at that, explore that again. I
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Speaker 3: emphasize that piece of you are making no commitment beyond this.
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Speaker 3: It's got to feel right for you. We'll look at
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Speaker 3: where you're at, We'll look at where you would like
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Speaker 3: to go, what your vision is. I try in that
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Speaker 3: first conversation to give them a taste of what coaching
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Speaker 3: with me would be. So asking lots of really good questions, listening,
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Speaker 3: trying to identify strength and capacity, which seems to be
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Speaker 3: challenging for a lot of us human beings, to give
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Speaker 3: ourselves permission to say out loud, here's what's really cool
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Speaker 3: about me. That's a big part of my coaching. And
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Speaker 3: then I, you know, I always end that first session
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Speaker 3: giving people permission to do a couple of different things.
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Speaker 3: If this feels like a good fit and you want
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Speaker 3: to get moving, let's If this boy doesn't feel like
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Speaker 3: anything you want to do, I will not take it personally.
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Speaker 3: This is too important, Please say so. Or what often
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Speaker 3: people do is listen, you know, go away, leave this
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Speaker 3: conversation and give yourself a few days to mull it over.
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Speaker 3: And if you let me know whether you want to
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Speaker 3: hire me, or not. So that first conversation is an
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Speaker 3: incredibly important part of determining are we going to coach together?
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Speaker 3: And if we are, how to get that process started?
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Speaker 2: Now, can you share a client access story that illustrates
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Speaker 2: a little bit of the transformation your work has created.
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Speaker 3: There is a woman that I have worked with. She's
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Speaker 3: an employee of a company that I do a bunch
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Speaker 3: of coaching for, and in this company I have developed
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Speaker 3: and facilitate. In fact, tomorrow I'm starting another cohort. It's
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Speaker 3: a fifteen hour, five session leadership development program based on
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Speaker 3: some of the models that I work with, like conversational
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Speaker 3: intelligence and motivational interviewing, psychological safety, things like that. So
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Speaker 3: she is kind of on a second level of leadership
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Speaker 3: within this company. It's a kind of a techie company,
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Speaker 3: and she now oversees three other people who oversee Each
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Speaker 3: person oversees a team of ten, so she has some
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Speaker 3: level of responsibility for about thirty plus folk. And one
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Speaker 3: of the things we focus on in this training is
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Speaker 3: how to conduct a productive team. If I this again
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Speaker 3: my bias, Joe, but man, so many team meetings in
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Speaker 3: companies are an absolute waste of time. They're a waste
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Speaker 3: of time, could send it off in a memo or
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Speaker 3: an email. Nobody is attending to levels of trust in
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Speaker 3: the room, or are we even in the same conversation,
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Speaker 3: And so you spend fifty minutes and people leave. And
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Speaker 3: you know, the evidence for me that a conversation, the
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Speaker 3: group conversation wasn't very productive is how often after those
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Speaker 3: group conversations in the days following, are there the water
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Speaker 3: cooler conversations? Right, little groups of two or three said,
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Speaker 3: oh my god, what a waste of time that was.
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Speaker 3: And you know, Keith said, we're going to be doing
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Speaker 3: this and nobody asked me, and I have more than
15:44
Speaker 3: enough on my plate. Those water cooler conversations happen for
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Speaker 3: a reason, and it's so indicative of that the big
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Speaker 3: meeting some things not taking place that should have. So
15:56
Speaker 3: we talk a lot in this training about how to
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Speaker 3: create trust on a team, how to see everybody through
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Speaker 3: a lens of strength, how to facilitate a meeting where
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Speaker 3: everybody's on the same page, they know why they're there,
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Speaker 3: it feels good. How as leaders to always make sure
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Speaker 3: that you are voicing appreciation and value. Because if you
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Speaker 3: google the top three to five reasons why people leave companies.
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Speaker 3: It's always in whatever the language is. Did not feel
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Speaker 3: appreciated and valued is in that top three to five
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Speaker 3: all the time. So we talked a lot about this
16:32
Speaker 3: and she I remember at the time she was going
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Speaker 3: through the training, it seemed to really resonate with her.
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Speaker 3: There again back to my description of my favorite clients.
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Speaker 3: Very self aware, very courageous, willing to look at herself.
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Speaker 3: So anyway, we complete this. This was I don't know,
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Speaker 3: maybe a year ago. So I get a call from
16:51
Speaker 3: her a couple of months ago at the start of
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Speaker 3: the summer. Wanted to meet with me again. And what
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Speaker 3: she shares with me is she went back and started
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Speaker 3: facilitating these group meetings once a month, the team gets together.
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Speaker 3: They use it for planning, they use it to celebrate,
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Speaker 3: you know, to connect. Those meetings are going so well.
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Speaker 3: She is getting such positive feedback. There is such a
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Speaker 3: positive tenor of the interaction of the people on her
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Speaker 3: team that the company, with a company about five hundred people,
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Speaker 3: the company came to her and said, we want you
17:28
Speaker 3: to do an in service with all the other people
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Speaker 3: in the company at your level of leadership on what
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Speaker 3: the heck you're doing, Because what we're hearing from the
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Speaker 3: people on your team. Is they love these monthly meetings
17:39
Speaker 3: where across the company they hear the opposite most of
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Speaker 3: the time. What a waste of time they are. I
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Speaker 3: love that, And you know it doesn't say anything about me.
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Speaker 3: I simply deliver some of the information, but it was.
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Speaker 3: It's just so cool to experience someone who's something about
17:57
Speaker 3: what we talked about resonated. I'm going to go back.
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Speaker 3: I'm going to be courageous, I'm going to try some things.
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Speaker 3: I'm going to experiment see what works. I'm going to
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Speaker 3: make myself vulnerable as a leader right up in front
18:08
Speaker 3: of my team. And it has proven effective and positive.
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Speaker 3: And her little corner of the company are being incredibly effective.
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Speaker 3: They are being unbelievably productive, and they're enjoying each other.
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Speaker 3: That that's pretty cool.
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Speaker 2: Going back to something you mentioned, joining these cohorts, you
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Speaker 2: explore a few different models. Can you explain them in
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Speaker 2: maybe a short example for each?
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Speaker 3: Sure? So, the training and much of my work is
18:42
Speaker 3: built on a foundation from a modality called conversational intelligence.
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Speaker 3: Conversational intelligence was created by a brilliant woman by the
18:50
Speaker 3: name of Judith Glacier, who again walked in the executive
18:54
Speaker 3: coaching world pretty internationally who's well known. I had the
19:00
Speaker 3: privilege about eleven ish or twelve years ago to train
19:04
Speaker 3: with her for a year. Sadly, very shortly after that
19:07
Speaker 3: she passed away. And what conversational intelligence or CIQ looks
19:11
Speaker 3: at is it looks at the neurochemical underpinnings of how
19:15
Speaker 3: very specific conversational strategies or patterns, when used between two individuals,
19:21
Speaker 3: cause each individual's brain to say either I trust you
19:26
Speaker 3: or I perceive you as threat and I go into
19:29
Speaker 3: some level of fight flight. And you know, some of
19:32
Speaker 3: the really cool aspects of CIQ is what it empowers
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Speaker 3: coaches to do is I can deconstruct. I can sit
19:40
Speaker 3: with clients and deconstruct with them. They're very specific conversational patterns,
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Speaker 3: the words they use, the tone of their voice, the
19:48
Speaker 3: correlation or lack of correlation between body language and they're verbal.
19:55
Speaker 3: You know, whatever they're saying, the content of what they
19:57
Speaker 3: have to say, and we can identify where when you
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Speaker 3: say this in this way, under this circumstance with this person,
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Speaker 3: there's a greater chance it's going to land in their
20:07
Speaker 3: ears and their brain is going to perceive you as
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Speaker 3: threat or it's going to land in theirs and they're
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Speaker 3: going to say, oh wow, I like what this person
20:17
Speaker 3: is saying. I feel their authenticity, I feel their honesty,
20:19
Speaker 3: I feel their respect of me. So it very, very
20:23
Speaker 3: very much shines a light on trust creation, which is
20:26
Speaker 3: the foundation of every relationship we exist in Do I
20:30
Speaker 3: or do I not trust you? And by the way
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Speaker 3: two people come together who've never met before and start interacting,
20:35
Speaker 3: point zero seven seconds is how quickly brains are determining
20:40
Speaker 3: friend or foe. And the last part of that, I'd say, Joe,
20:44
Speaker 3: is that when we perceive somebody, and this is so
20:47
Speaker 3: important in leadership and in the workplace, if I am
20:51
Speaker 3: interacting with somebody who I perceive as threat, I'm in
20:55
Speaker 3: a different part of my brain than I need to
20:57
Speaker 3: be in to do really good thinking because I'm stuck
21:01
Speaker 3: in the feeling part of my brain. Because fight fight
21:05
Speaker 3: that what's its purpose. Its purpose is to keep the
21:07
Speaker 3: human person safe. So if we want people to be
21:12
Speaker 3: doing their best thinking in the workplace, that only happens
21:16
Speaker 3: if they're interacting with people where there is a great
21:19
Speaker 3: level of trust. So conversational intelligence is in there. Psychological safety,
21:23
Speaker 3: the concepts from there. Of again, that's where you get
21:27
Speaker 3: some of our need to voice appreciation and value, not
21:32
Speaker 3: appreciation and value because of what a person can do
21:34
Speaker 3: in their job, appreciation and value because that's what human
21:37
Speaker 3: beings deserve and when they are offered that, they flourish.
21:42
Speaker 3: So what what are some things to keep in mind?
21:46
Speaker 3: Like person, it's their first day of work, they're new
21:49
Speaker 3: on the team. How do I, as the leader, or
21:52
Speaker 3: how do I want to support the other people on
21:54
Speaker 3: the team in interacting with them to bring appreciation and
21:57
Speaker 3: value into the picture. Positive psychology, the whole world of
22:02
Speaker 3: positive psychology, which just focuses on strengths. There's not any
22:06
Speaker 3: evidence in the world that people grow when leaders are
22:10
Speaker 3: constantly pointing out what they don't do well. There's great
22:13
Speaker 3: evidence that people grow and want to be with you
22:18
Speaker 3: when you are the person who helps them see the
22:21
Speaker 3: strengths in them. Because again, for many human beings that
22:25
Speaker 3: seems to be really hard to do. I build some
22:28
Speaker 3: pieces of motivational interviewing in their Motivational interviewing is another modality.
22:33
Speaker 3: It comes out of more of the clinical world, and
22:36
Speaker 3: specifically from the world of addiction, where it's a way
22:40
Speaker 3: of interacting with people that helps people find what they
22:44
Speaker 3: are most motivated to do. A false narrative in the
22:48
Speaker 3: leadership world is that leaders are supposed to motivate their team.
22:52
Speaker 3: There is no evidence in the research that I see, Joe,
22:55
Speaker 3: that it is possible to motivate another human being. Motivation
22:59
Speaker 3: is an in ernal experience. I can influence somebody, I
23:06
Speaker 3: can inspire maybe, but we need to help people find
23:11
Speaker 3: where they're most motivated. The challenging part in leadership is
23:14
Speaker 3: sometimes we have people on our teams who where they're
23:16
Speaker 3: motivated is not where we would love them to be.
23:20
Speaker 3: But you cannot inject a person with motivation that they
23:25
Speaker 3: decide on. So motivational interviewing or am I is a modality.
23:29
Speaker 3: It's a way of interacting, asking questions, being curious that
23:33
Speaker 3: helps people identify where they are most motivated to either
23:37
Speaker 3: move or do things or change. So just building in
23:40
Speaker 3: a lot of different things that at the end of
23:42
Speaker 3: the day bring a focus on trust and relationship.
23:46
Speaker 2: So in that last one, the interviewing is being conducted
23:51
Speaker 2: by the leader in order to find out what the
23:55
Speaker 2: team member is motivated by.
23:58
Speaker 3: That's right, right, So I'll give it a a you know,
24:01
Speaker 3: here's an example. I you have someone on your team
24:03
Speaker 3: who's coming late to work. Now, you know, it's interesting
24:07
Speaker 3: in the work world because there are some realities in
24:09
Speaker 3: the work world, like you can't keep coming late to
24:11
Speaker 3: work right or you run the risk of maybe losing
24:14
Speaker 3: you know, your job. So that's there, But the threat
24:19
Speaker 3: of things like that isn't necessarily what motivates people. And
24:22
Speaker 3: so instead of sitting with that person and saying you
24:24
Speaker 3: need to be there on time, and this is going
24:27
Speaker 3: to happen if you don't, it's a way of interacting
24:30
Speaker 3: with them that gets curious with them about how they
24:33
Speaker 3: see the world, about what might be playing a role
24:37
Speaker 3: in them being late to work, and how they're making
24:40
Speaker 3: that decision maybe in the morning, about what decision they
24:44
Speaker 3: would be ready or not ready to make to alter
24:46
Speaker 3: that because at the end of the day, you know
24:50
Speaker 3: you need to come to work on time. It would
24:52
Speaker 3: be taking a stance instead of saying you have to
24:54
Speaker 3: come to work on time. It might be at the
24:56
Speaker 3: end of that conversation taking a stance of me saying
24:59
Speaker 3: something like you know what, Joe, I so value you
25:02
Speaker 3: on my team, right, you bring this, this, this, and this.
25:05
Speaker 3: I got to be honest with you. I'm worried. I'm
25:08
Speaker 3: worried that if you don't make some different decisions, it
25:11
Speaker 3: could impact you staying here with this company. But you
25:16
Speaker 3: know what, at the end of the day, Joe, it's
25:18
Speaker 3: your call. What motivational interviewing recognizes is a reality, which
25:23
Speaker 3: is we cannot control any other human bank. We like
25:27
Speaker 3: to think we can, and I would argue that a
25:30
Speaker 3: good portion of human unhappiness personally or professionally emanates from
25:37
Speaker 3: people trying to control things they can't, namely other human banks.
25:43
Speaker 3: We cannot control other human banks, not possible. We can
25:47
Speaker 3: we can take care of our own stuff, and so
25:50
Speaker 3: motivational interviewing, along with some other aspects, honors I would
25:54
Speaker 3: argue it honors reality. I can't control you. If you
25:58
Speaker 3: want to keep coming to work, coming late to work,
26:00
Speaker 3: you can, I mean, I have no control over that.
26:04
Speaker 3: I can engage with you. I can try and connect
26:07
Speaker 3: with you, build our relationship, help you take a look
26:10
Speaker 3: at you know, maybe what the pros and cons are
26:12
Speaker 3: of this decision. But I will always honor your call,
26:17
Speaker 3: your call human being, and I think we would be
26:21
Speaker 3: in much better places if we stop trying to control.
26:24
Speaker 2: Now if listeners remember only one thing from today's conversation,
26:29
Speaker 2: what do you hope that message is?
26:31
Speaker 3: Trust? Trust? Trust that we go nowhere? We go nowhere.
26:35
Speaker 3: And Joe, if we take it out of the leadership
26:38
Speaker 3: world and out of the world of work, all we
26:40
Speaker 3: have to do in our society today is look around
26:44
Speaker 3: at the tenor of conversations that are taking place societally.
26:49
Speaker 3: It's horrible, right, it's horrible. We don't trust each other.
26:54
Speaker 3: We if I run into you and you think differently
26:56
Speaker 3: than me, It's not just that we have different perspective,
27:00
Speaker 3: demonize each other, judge each other, and then what happens
27:04
Speaker 3: is we push right, So I'm going to convince you, Joe,
27:08
Speaker 3: to see the world as I see it, because you
27:10
Speaker 3: see it wrong. Call me when that strategy ever works. Right,
27:16
Speaker 3: I've never seen that strategy be used and the person
27:19
Speaker 3: who is being pushed on says, oh my god, Keith,
27:22
Speaker 3: thank you. I hadn't thought about it that way. It
27:25
Speaker 3: never works. It just helps people kind of dig in
27:28
Speaker 3: their heels and deepen into, you know, into their belief
27:33
Speaker 3: and everything everything about how we function in any relationship
27:39
Speaker 3: we're in in our personal life, professional life. As a leader,
27:43
Speaker 3: the dinner table with friends and family who maybe see
27:46
Speaker 3: the world differently than we do. Starts and ends with
27:49
Speaker 3: trust and what we We have a level of knowledge now,
27:54
Speaker 3: especially in the brain science world, of very specific strategies
28:01
Speaker 3: that will engender trust or won't and we can use those.
28:07
Speaker 3: We can use those in every single relationship we're in.
28:10
Speaker 3: We just have to be willing in that to go
28:13
Speaker 3: all the way back to where our conversations started today,
28:16
Speaker 3: to look at ourselves. You know, if you and I
28:18
Speaker 3: have a conversation that goes south, if we both walk
28:21
Speaker 3: away from that conversation and believe it went south because
28:25
Speaker 3: the other person was to blame, we're done. If we
28:29
Speaker 3: walk away from a conversation that didn't go well, or
28:31
Speaker 3: every time I interact with you, Joe, Man, I just
28:34
Speaker 3: have this reaction to you. I don't even know where
28:35
Speaker 3: it comes from. If I can respond to that by
28:39
Speaker 3: getting curate, huh, what is that for me? Where's that
28:43
Speaker 3: coming from for me? Then we have a chance. Then
28:47
Speaker 3: we have a chance to find some ways to foster
28:52
Speaker 3: trust between us and our conversations, our interaction, our work together,
28:57
Speaker 3: our time together will be much more more positive and productive.
29:01
Speaker 2: That's a great message. Now, where can our audience connect
29:05
Speaker 2: with you, learn more about your work, and continue this conversation.
29:08
Speaker 3: So if people are interested, they can find me on
29:10
Speaker 3: my website It's Keith Greercoaching dot com or my email
29:17
Speaker 3: is Keith at keith greercaching dot com. And what I'd
29:21
Speaker 3: like to throw out to your audience, Joe is is
29:24
Speaker 3: you know, if there's anyone you know listening in any
29:27
Speaker 3: aspect of this resonated with them and they think it
29:30
Speaker 3: might be worthwhile having a conversation to the first five
29:33
Speaker 3: of your listeners who reach out to me, I would
29:36
Speaker 3: be more than happy to schedule the time. You know,
29:39
Speaker 3: no fee, no commitment whatsoever. We can look at how
29:43
Speaker 3: maybe some of this c IQ or some of these
29:45
Speaker 3: other modalities could help them at work or again in
29:49
Speaker 3: their in their personal life. Wherever I'd love being in
29:53
Speaker 3: this conversation, I'd be more than happy to spend that
29:56
Speaker 3: time with some of your folks.
29:58
Speaker 2: Thank you for the offer, and thank you for joining us.
30:00
Speaker 2: We really appreciate your time.
30:02
Speaker 3: Joe, thanks for inviting me, and I enjoyed our conversation.
30:05
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thanks everyone for joining us. If this episode
30:09
Speaker 2: inspire you, share it with someone who needs it, and
30:12
Speaker 2: don't forget to follow the Globeviiser podcast for more conversations
30:15
Speaker 2: that make an impact. Till the next time