Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NEW CLUES In San Antonio Mystery Of Tot Boy’s Disappearance: Where Is Baby Gabriel?

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NEW CLUES In San Antonio Mystery Of Tot Boy’s Disappearance: Where Is Baby Gabriel? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace new clues in the San
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Speaker 1: Antonio mystery of a tout boy's disappearance. Where is Baby Gabriel?
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. Childhood friends Elizabeth and Logan have kindled
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Speaker 1: a romantic relationship and welcome to baby boy by the
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Speaker 1: name of Gabriel in Arizona. But the happy family is
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Speaker 1: troubled by Elizabeth and Logan's strained and rocky relationship, which
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Speaker 1: soon leads to disaster. Tonight, Where is baby Gabriel? Has
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Speaker 1: mommy sold the taut boy? Everyone? Thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us, but for a straight out to the biodad.
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Speaker 1: Logan mcquarie is joining us. The father of baby Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: You and the mom had a very very tumultuous relationship ship.
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Speaker 1: Where do you believe baby Gabriel is tonight?
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Speaker 2: Didn't tell you. Just hope he's out there and he's
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Speaker 2: doing good wherever he's at.
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Speaker 1: How did the whole thing start? Listen?
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Speaker 3: Elizabeth graduates from a college preparatory high school in Boston
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Speaker 3: near her grandmother, with a four point zero GPA and
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Speaker 3: a full ride scholarship to Southeastern University in New Hampshire.
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Speaker 4: Elizabeth Johnson's grandfather, Robert Johnson of Scottsdale, Arizona, says, two
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Speaker 4: weeks into her first semester at Southeastern University, Elizabeth drops
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Speaker 4: out because she doesn't like her roommate. Johnson says his
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Speaker 4: granddaughter is impulsive, prone to fits of rage, and secretive
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Speaker 4: as a team. When she was living with her grandmother
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Speaker 4: in Boston, Elizabeth flew from Boston to California to sell
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Speaker 4: her reproductive eggs for cash to someone she contacted online.
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Speaker 1: I know that she sold her eggs for cash when
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Speaker 1: she was a very very young woman, still actually a teen,
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Speaker 1: But does that indicate in any way that she would
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Speaker 1: have sold baby Gabriel as she now admits that she did.
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Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning, joining me an all star
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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of where is baby Gabriel tonight
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Speaker 1: and can we bring him home? Let me give you
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Speaker 1: the tip line too, one zero to zero seven seven
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Speaker 1: six six zero repeat two one zero two zero seven
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Speaker 1: seven six six zero or the FBI two one zero
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Speaker 1: two two five six seven four one. We're convinced if
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Speaker 1: baby Gabriel is alive, he has been taken across state lines.
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Speaker 1: You know, I want to go quickly out to or
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Speaker 1: now a psychologist joining us from Manhattan today, Karen Stark. Karen,
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Speaker 1: very often, she actually tried to give the baby away.
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Speaker 1: She tried to sell the baby. We know that she
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Speaker 1: has an mo motus operandi method of operation dating back
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Speaker 1: to her teen years when she sold her eggs for money. Right,
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Speaker 1: not judging, I'm just trying to find maybe Gabriel. What
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Speaker 1: does this indicate to you, Karen Stark?
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Speaker 5: It indicates that she doesn't see this baby as a
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Speaker 5: real human being separate from her. It's like a narcissistic
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Speaker 5: attachment nancy where this baby is an extension and she
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Speaker 5: could do whatever she wants, like sell her eggs or
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Speaker 5: sell the baby. And so you wonder the psychological state
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Speaker 5: that she actually is in, just the fact that she's
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Speaker 5: so impulsive and keeps remarrying over and over again, using people, manipulative,
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Speaker 5: and she's smart, she's really smart. So she was able
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Speaker 5: to get away with this. And it's just confounding that
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Speaker 5: all this time has and this woman is not really
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Speaker 5: revealing what happened to this child. Who has this child?
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Speaker 5: If the child is alive, she doesn't care.
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Speaker 1: Did mommy sell her? Tap? Boy, Gabriel. Back to Gabriel's dad,
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Speaker 1: Logan McQuary, by all accounts a very loving and attentive
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Speaker 1: dad to Gabriel. Isn't it true that quite often she
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Speaker 1: would lash out at you and use baby Gabriel as leverage.
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Speaker 2: Yes, she would several times, like what if he was
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Speaker 2: crying too much or anything like that, She would just
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Speaker 2: say shut him up, and she would get really mad
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Speaker 2: if I wanted to do something, She wouldn't let me
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Speaker 2: and man have to stay home and take care of him.
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Speaker 1: Guys, you're seeing shots off baby Gabriel. Now, this is
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Speaker 1: how the whole thing started. Listen.
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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Johnson gives birth to a boy on May third,
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Speaker 3: and she and Logan McCreary him Gabriel. At times when
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Speaker 3: the baby is crying, Elizabeth places baby Gabriel in a
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Speaker 3: room by himself and goes to a different room so
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Speaker 3: she doesn't have to hear him crying. With Gabriel crying,
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Speaker 3: Logan asks Elizabeth what she's been doing. She replies for
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Speaker 3: him to quote shut that thing up.
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Speaker 1: So Logan, it seems like although she gave birth to
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Speaker 1: baby Gabriel, he was more of a problem for her
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Speaker 1: to quote deal with rather than like we expect moms
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Speaker 1: to do right or wrong, to love the baby, to
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Speaker 1: be attached to the baby, baby heart, mind, and soul.
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Speaker 1: She did not have that attachment to baby Gabriel at all.
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Speaker 2: No, it was more like he was a thorn on
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Speaker 2: her hip. She didn't really want to do the things
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Speaker 2: if she needed to do to take care of him.
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Speaker 2: She just didn't want him around.
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Speaker 1: Was the pregnancy intentional or was it an accident?
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Speaker 2: It definitely was an accident. We didn't plan on getting pregnant.
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Speaker 2: We talked about back and forth if we wanted to
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Speaker 2: keep it. Ultimately it was her division. Then she said
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Speaker 2: that she wanted to keep him. What happened afterwards was
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Speaker 2: not what I was expecting.
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Speaker 1: When did you first notice, Logan that she seemed disconnected
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Speaker 1: to baby Gabriel.
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Speaker 2: Once we got home from the hospital and she just
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Speaker 2: didn't want to get up and beat him or do anything.
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Speaker 2: I just kind of took over and I had to
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Speaker 2: go to work too, But whenever I was home, I
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Speaker 2: was helping her out with whatever I could and let
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Speaker 2: her just kind of lay in bed just I don't
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Speaker 2: know how to explain it. Leaving for work in the
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Speaker 2: morning and Gabriel would be in his crib and then
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Speaker 2: coming home and he would be in the same closed
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Speaker 2: diaper everything, and it's like she didn't get up and
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Speaker 2: take care of him at all.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is Tim Maloney. This is Logan's attorney. You
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Speaker 1: guys have been through it trying to find Gabriel, baby Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: What do you make of what Logan is telling us
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Speaker 1: that the baby would still be in the crib where
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Speaker 1: the baby was when Logan went to work, when do
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Speaker 1: we get home?
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Speaker 6: Well, I think it's indicative of he's got a very
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Speaker 6: troubled young woman, and I think ultimately what played out
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Speaker 6: was the fact that she just couldn't bomb with this child,
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Speaker 6: and we have those kind of narcissistic tendencies that she
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Speaker 6: was clearly demonstrating that it was just a matter of
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Speaker 6: time for a disaster was going to happen. You know,
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Speaker 6: the saddest part of this whole thing, besides the obvious,
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Speaker 6: is that I think a lot of these answers could
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Speaker 6: have had at the beginning of this investigation, that there
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Speaker 6: was some competent work done by the police departments in
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Speaker 6: the various jurisdictions. You have Jami on with you today.
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Speaker 6: When she and I have been really with this story
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Speaker 6: from the very beginning, and we have done probably as
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Speaker 6: much investigation along with Abel than any police departments looking
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Speaker 6: for Gabriel. And that part is really is that there
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Speaker 6: are so many clues early on that could have given
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Speaker 6: Logan answers. That's what we promised him, was to just
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Speaker 6: give him some answers, and to this day, that's what
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Speaker 6: we'd still like to do for him. The hope and
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Speaker 6: dream is a Gabriel stood out there. We've had some
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Speaker 6: recent events of children who've been disappeared for many years
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Speaker 6: who have materialized, and that is the hope. But really,
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Speaker 6: one of the saddest things I think about this is
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Speaker 6: the fact that there are so many clues, so many
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Speaker 6: things that could have been done early on in the
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Speaker 6: investigation that could have gotten answers.
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Speaker 1: You are seeing shots right now of baby Gabriel, and
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Speaker 1: you're hearing Tim Maloney. This is the dad Logan McQuary's lawyer,
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Speaker 1: who was joined in the search to find baby Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: Is baby Gabriel out there? Did Mommy give him away
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Speaker 1: as she said she did? Did she sell him? Would
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Speaker 1: this be just another incident of her disassociation with her baby,
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Speaker 1: treating him like he's an object to be sold or
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Speaker 1: given away. You heard Tim Maloney refer to Yammy Verrhim
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Speaker 1: joining us anchor reporter K A. B. Fox twenty nine
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Speaker 1: is San Antonio, Yammy, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Tell us how the whole thing started.
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Speaker 7: It started New Year's Day, you know, photographer and myself
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Speaker 7: sitting in the newsroom when we got that facts that
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Speaker 7: came in saying that they were looking for a missing
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Speaker 7: child out of Arizona and that they believe he may
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Speaker 7: have been near the Fiesta, Texas area, which is iten
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Speaker 7: runs from you know, the east coast to the west coast,
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Speaker 7: and you know that there's a park there. So we
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Speaker 7: decided to go out and start looking. And I mean,
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Speaker 7: I don't even have the words to explain to you
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Speaker 7: how massively law enforcement has dropped the ball. And I'm
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Speaker 7: going to say it for the family because they've been
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Speaker 7: more than fair. Law enforcement has dropped the ball on
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Speaker 7: this case. It is two different jurisdictions. All we've heard
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Speaker 7: is it's not our case.
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Speaker 2: That case belongs to.
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Speaker 7: Tempe, Tempe, that case belongs to San Antonio. I mean,
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Speaker 7: we even did a report where in Aunt Sandy call
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Speaker 7: asking about the case and missing persons in San Antonio,
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Speaker 7: told her, Oh, that's not our case, that's a Tempee case.
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Speaker 7: This may be part of the reason why they have
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Speaker 7: no idea what happened to Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: And Sandy, as Yami just refers, is with us. Sandy
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Speaker 1: Peters is the aunt of baby Gabriel. Sandy, take me
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Speaker 1: back to the beginning what happened.
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Speaker 8: Logan had called me the first of December and told
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Speaker 8: me that things were going bad. He was trying to
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Speaker 8: get partial custody of Gabriel and Elizabeth was fighting, and
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Speaker 8: he called it that he thought Elizabeth was going to
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Speaker 8: take Gabriel and run and he would never see Gabriel again.
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Speaker 8: I didn't I couldn't fathom that that.
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Speaker 9: Would really happen.
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Speaker 8: I'd known Elizabeth through the last year and a half
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Speaker 8: for maybe two years, and I guess year and a half,
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Speaker 8: and I knew.
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Speaker 9: She was reluctant to have a child, but I also.
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Speaker 8: Knew that she was very against having an abortion, and
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Speaker 8: she made it sound like she was going to try.
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Speaker 9: To make this work. So when Logan called me and
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Speaker 9: said that he thought.
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Speaker 8: She was going to run with Gabriel and he'd never
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Speaker 8: see Gabriel again.
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Speaker 9: I told him that that just wasn't going to happen.
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Speaker 9: To hang in there and we'd.
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Speaker 8: Get it figured out, and within a couple of days
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Speaker 8: she was gone. We weren't aware of the relationship that
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Speaker 8: Elizabeth had, that she had somebody who she was thinking
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Speaker 8: that she wanted to get Gabriel too. She had met
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Speaker 8: this Timmy and Jack in an airport. They appeared to
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Speaker 8: have a lot of money. They had offered her some
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Speaker 8: kind of a deal because they were interested in adopting
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Speaker 8: Gabriel and getting Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: Guys, you are hearing Gabriel's and also with us is
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Speaker 1: bio Dad, a very loving and supportive father joining me now.
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Speaker 1: Special guest able Penya the director for Project Abcentists, composed
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Speaker 1: of former members FBI and federal agencies to find missing children,
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Speaker 1: their FBI agents of twenty six years experience able. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. So with the dad, the
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Speaker 1: bio dad, the legal father of the baby, she was
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Speaker 1: looking up people to give the baby too, and she
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Speaker 1: makes him at an airport, a couple she's never seen
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Speaker 1: in her own life and decides to give the baby
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Speaker 1: to them.
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Speaker 10: Yeah, that's sort of understanding is that she she made
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Speaker 10: efforts to give the baby away. We've undertaken just a
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Speaker 10: lot of efforts to interview witnesses, friends, acquaintances, family members
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Speaker 10: to try it and get answers for the family, and it's.
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Speaker 11: Just been.
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Speaker 2: Very difficult.
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Speaker 10: We've gotten various answers from different people about what happened
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Speaker 10: to Gabriel. We have the story that you know, Elizabeth
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Speaker 10: met strangers in a park and gave Gabriel away here
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Speaker 10: in San Antonio. There's also other stories circulating that Elizabeth
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Speaker 10: did harm to Gabriel. So at this point, we're still
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Speaker 10: searching for answers for the family. We're still talking to people.
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Speaker 10: We've traveled to Arizona a few times and met with
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Speaker 10: the additional witnesses that we believe are helpful, and we're
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Speaker 10: going to continue searching and talking to people until we
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Speaker 10: get the answers.
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Speaker 12: Logan mcquery and Elizabeth Johnson argue often over her treatment
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Speaker 12: of baby Gabriel. After an extremely heated argument in June,
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Speaker 12: Elizabeth flies to Boston with Gabriel to visit her grandmother.
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Speaker 12: Returning to Arizona in August, Johnson meets Tammy Peter Smith
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Speaker 12: during an airport layover in Indianapolis, Indiana, and Smith initiates
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Speaker 12: a conversation that leads to a discussion about Smith and
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Speaker 12: her husband adopting Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: Baby Lisa Irwin vanishes from our crib in the middle
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Speaker 1: of the night. Then a key witness sees a suspicious
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Speaker 1: man that night carrying a baby. This potential suspect has
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Speaker 1: never been interviewed before, but Megan Kelly tracks him down.
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Speaker 1: Megan Kelly Investigates is a five part series releasing every
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Speaker 1: weekday beginning Monday, March ten, Available on YouTube Series six
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Speaker 1: XM and wherever you listen to The Megan Kelly Show podcast.
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Speaker 1: Click the link in the description of this episode for more.
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Speaker 13: Arizona mom Elizabeth Johnson wants to put her month old
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Speaker 13: son Gabriel up for adoption and believe she may have
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Speaker 13: found the right couple at an airport, but father Logan
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Speaker 13: strongly disagrees and a heated custody battle ensues.
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Speaker 1: Give the baby to a couple you meet at the airport.
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Speaker 1: Let me understand, Yemmy Verrheim with us Kabb. He's been
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Speaker 1: on the story from the very beginning. That's been confirmed, right.
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Speaker 1: We know that mom wanted to give the baby away
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Speaker 1: probably I would say taking a fee while guess from
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Speaker 1: a couple. She just meets at the airport. That's been confirmed, correct,
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Speaker 1: that's been confirmed.
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Speaker 7: And Nancy, actually I'm going to take you back a
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Speaker 7: little bit. You interviewed Tammy and Jack Smith when this
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Speaker 7: first happened. They went on air with you and they
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Speaker 7: were talking about them trying to help to find Elizabeth,
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Speaker 7: and pretty much we found them on my Space. Back then,
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Speaker 7: it was my Space, there was no Facebook. So when
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Speaker 7: we found we started sending messages and getting information from them,
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Speaker 7: and they told us that yes, he had traveled to
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Speaker 7: San Antonio, that they were trying to find her, that
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Speaker 7: they wanted to get them back, that they basically had
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Speaker 7: wanted to adopt him, but when they were told that
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Speaker 7: they couldn't adopt him, that they were just trying to
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Speaker 7: get her back to Tempe and get the baby back
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Speaker 7: to Logan because at that point it was custodial interference
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Speaker 7: since Logan.
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Speaker 1: Was supposed to have the baby back back to Abel
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Speaker 1: Pinya joining us from Project absentis Abel. I know in
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Speaker 1: your line of business, you know what EMO, Mitrosoft and
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Speaker 1: I method of operation means, and with practically every criminal
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Speaker 1: I took to trial, there was a precursor. You could
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Speaker 1: see a pattern emerging before the ultimate crime. And here
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Speaker 1: we see her all the way back to her teen
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Speaker 1: years when she was selling her eggs. She had no
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Speaker 1: intention of ever having children, not judging, don't care. I
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Speaker 1: just want to find baby Gabriel. And then it goes
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Speaker 1: on from there. It graduates to her trying to give
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Speaker 1: away to the baby to strangers in an airport, which
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Speaker 1: leads me to think that is what she did. Again.
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Speaker 10: Well, I have had conversations with Tammy Smith, lengthy conversations
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Speaker 10: with her, and at that time she was somewhere in Africa.
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Speaker 10: She's back, actually back in the United States. I believe
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Speaker 10: she's living in an Arizona again. But I came to
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Speaker 10: the conclusion that, you know, Gabriel, that Tammy was did
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Speaker 10: not have custody of Gabriel over there in Africa. I
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Speaker 10: don't believemmy. I think Tammyan and Jack wanted Gabriel. I
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Speaker 10: think they were making, I mean efforts to get Gabriel,
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Speaker 10: but for some reason, things just didn't materialize, and Elizabeth
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Speaker 10: had maybe some other you know, ideas about what she
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Speaker 10: was going to do with Gabriel. But the things I
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Speaker 10: don't believe happened that way, that Tammy and Jack wanted it,
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Speaker 10: And I do not believe that Tammy and Jack ever
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Speaker 10: took custody of Gabriel.
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Speaker 1: Guys, where is baby Gabriel? What does that mean? What
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Speaker 1: does that mean? Probatively to Tim Maloney, the dad Logan
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Speaker 1: mcquarie's lawyer, I've argued this a million times to jury.
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Speaker 1: When you don't know what someone is going to do,
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Speaker 1: you look at what they've already done. This wasn't the
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Speaker 1: first time she tried to give the baby away.
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Speaker 6: The thing about it is her pattern of history is
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Speaker 6: so erratic that and also you do un a fan,
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Speaker 6: you know, audience does the stand that she did an
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Speaker 6: effect of path to the murder itself, and then we can't.
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Speaker 6: And you know, that's what we're getting back to the
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Speaker 6: issue of that night that as you know that critical
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Speaker 6: forty eight hours, you have to really make a decision
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Speaker 6: as to where the investigation is going to go.
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Speaker 1: I think the current incident of baby Gabriel potentially being
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Speaker 1: given away or sold goes back to something that happened
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Speaker 1: on December nine.
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Speaker 3: Listen on December ninth, Johnson is arrested on suspicion of
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Speaker 3: providing false information to law enforcement when she lies to
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Speaker 3: authorities about where Gabriel is, telling Tempe Arizona police that
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Speaker 3: McCrary kidnapped the baby Gabriel has found at Tammy Smith's residence,
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Speaker 3: but police let Gabriel stay after Smith shows police a
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Speaker 3: document in which Johnson signed over temporary guardianship of Gabriel
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Speaker 3: to Smith.
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Speaker 1: Logan McQuary baby Gabriel's dad. Did you have any idea
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Speaker 1: at the time that she was trying to give your
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Speaker 1: baby away, even pretend somebody else was the bio dad?
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Speaker 2: No, I didn't know that at all.
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Speaker 1: Did you ever agree to putting your child up for adoption?
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Speaker 2: No, there's no way I was going to. I told
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Speaker 2: her I wanted to try to raise Gabriel on my own.
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Speaker 2: If she didn't want to be a part of it,
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Speaker 2: then that was up there.
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Speaker 4: Logan mcquery says he never supported giving up Gabriel for
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Speaker 4: adoption and seeks custody of his son and family court
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Speaker 4: or a judge awards joint legal custody of baby Gabriel
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Speaker 4: to Johnson and McQuary on December seventeenth. On December eighteenth,
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Speaker 4: the Smith's return Gabriel to Elizabeth Johnson. The judge orders
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Speaker 4: McQuary to have physical custody of his son for a
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Speaker 4: period beginning December twentieth, but when McQuary calls Johnson to
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Speaker 4: make arrangements to pick up his son, Johnson tells him
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Speaker 4: he will never see his son again. When McQuary goes
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Speaker 4: to Johnson's home, the place has been completely emptied.
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Speaker 13: Against his dad's wishes. Baby Gabriel is left in the
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Speaker 13: care of an Arizona couple Mommy Elizabeth, met while at
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Speaker 13: an airport in Indianapolis. As Logan tries to gain custody
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Speaker 13: of the child, Elizabeth leaves a worrying message on Logan's phone.
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Speaker 1: It seems as if this mom, Elizabeth, will do anything
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Speaker 1: to strike out at the biodad Logan mcquarie, who is
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Speaker 1: joining us tonight, Police desperately try to put together a timeline.
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Speaker 3: Putting together a timeline police determine after the custody hearing
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Speaker 3: on December seventeenth, where Logan McQuary is granted shared physical
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Speaker 3: custody of Gabriel, Johnson borrows her grandfather's nineteen ninety five
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Speaker 3: Olds Delta eighty eight meets up with Tammy Smith, who
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Speaker 3: had been taking care of Gabriel, and drives to San Antonio, Texas,
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Speaker 3: arriving on December twenty two. Elizabeth and Gabriel stay at
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Speaker 3: the Quality Innfiesta Park, then moved to the Homegay Studios
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Speaker 3: in Suites, hiring a babysitter on Craiglist to watch Gabriel
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Speaker 3: at the hotel, Johnson instructs the sitter to give Gabriel
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Speaker 3: a bottle about every hour and if he cries, give
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Speaker 3: him medicine to shut him up.
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Speaker 1: Logan mcquery, did you have any idea where she was
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Speaker 1: at that time with baby Gabriel and hiring a babysitter
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Speaker 1: online and telling the babysitter, Hey, if he christ too much,
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Speaker 1: just give him me so we'll quote shut up. Did
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Speaker 1: you have any idea any of this was going on?
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Speaker 2: No, I had no clue at all. I mean, we
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Speaker 2: were looking for the whole time, but just I wouldn't
22:09
Speaker 2: even imagine that was going on at the time.
22:11
Speaker 1: Logan, did she ever threaten to hurt baby Gabriel to
22:15
Speaker 1: get at you?
22:16
Speaker 2: One time he was bouncing in his chair and screaming
22:19
Speaker 2: and crying, and she went over and kind of flicked
22:21
Speaker 2: the back of the chair and he flipped over on
22:23
Speaker 2: his face, and I got really pissed off and told
22:26
Speaker 2: her she can't do that, and she just yelled at
22:28
Speaker 2: me shut them up.
22:30
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to make sense of what this woman
22:34
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Johnson did with baby Gabriel, because she gave so
22:39
Speaker 1: many conflicting accounts. Every time she would speak to Logan McQuary,
22:43
Speaker 1: the bio dad should give another painful explanation of where
22:48
Speaker 1: is baby Gabriel? But isn't it true to Abel Pinya
22:52
Speaker 1: joining US director a Project Absentis, who is dedicated to
22:56
Speaker 1: finding baby Gabriel, that her phone pain where she says
23:02
Speaker 1: she handed the baby off to this couple at a park.
23:05
Speaker 10: Yes, there were pings in the area. I know that
23:09
Speaker 10: police made efforts to try to locate the park, and
23:14
Speaker 10: I believe it was Winging Rinker's Park that they here
23:16
Speaker 10: in San Antonio that they identified.
23:19
Speaker 11: They went out there, they.
23:21
Speaker 10: Checked for any kind of evidence, forensic evidence. I believe
23:23
Speaker 10: they even home the area for anything out there just
23:27
Speaker 10: suggested that she was out there again, she described what
23:32
Speaker 10: she did. She describes the park, I guess to describing
23:36
Speaker 10: the parking lot where she sat. So I mean, we
23:40
Speaker 10: do know that she liked going out to the park.
23:43
Speaker 10: She could have visited that park at some point in time.
23:47
Speaker 10: There would have been pings that she was out there again.
23:51
Speaker 10: You know, we just don't know who she met, you know,
23:55
Speaker 10: what she did with Gabriel, or where Gabriel was taken
23:58
Speaker 10: to After.
23:59
Speaker 4: That listen, In San Antonio, investigators looking for baby Gabriel
24:03
Speaker 4: focus on the hotels where Johnson state after arriving in town.
24:07
Speaker 4: Investigators did find Elizabeth Johnson's grandfather's car, the Delta eighty
24:11
Speaker 4: eight she drove from Arizona to Texas. It was discovered
24:14
Speaker 4: parked at the Motel six near Interstate thirty five, close
24:17
Speaker 4: to a bus stop. Inside the vehicle, investigators found a
24:21
Speaker 4: baby seat, but no visible signs of violence.
24:23
Speaker 1: And we learn more the story about a surptitious adoption
24:30
Speaker 1: of sorts.
24:31
Speaker 3: This story involves underground adoption of children and that she
24:34
Speaker 3: met a couple in a park in San Antonio who
24:36
Speaker 3: took Gabriel, and that's the story she's still sticking with today.
24:40
Speaker 3: When investigators talked to her, she was able to describe
24:42
Speaker 3: the park in San Antonio, including the parking lot that
24:45
Speaker 3: would hold about twenty.
24:46
Speaker 1: Cars, Yami verhim joining us. Kabb tell me about her
24:51
Speaker 1: description of that parking lot and what she says happened there.
24:56
Speaker 7: It was actually in her journal the directions how to
25:00
Speaker 7: get there, like when someone calls you and you're writing
25:03
Speaker 7: down directions. That was inside the journal that the FBI has,
25:07
Speaker 7: So she had directions on how to get there, and
25:10
Speaker 7: once she got there, she described it in these recordings
25:15
Speaker 7: that you're playing exactly what she did, that the baby
25:18
Speaker 7: was sitting in the car seat, that she went to
25:21
Speaker 7: the park and was waiting for the couple. But more
25:23
Speaker 7: interesting to me is the fact that we actually got
25:28
Speaker 7: to that hotel that she had been at before the
25:32
Speaker 7: police even got there, and we were able to talk
25:35
Speaker 7: to a clerk who described a couple that she had
25:39
Speaker 7: seen at the hotel talking to Elizabeth a few days
25:44
Speaker 7: before police tell me that, oh no, that's not true.
25:48
Speaker 7: I talked to the clerk. It was a young woman
25:51
Speaker 7: that was going to school here in San Antonio from
25:53
Speaker 7: the Rio Grande Valley, and she remembered specifically seeing Elizabeth
25:59
Speaker 7: with a cup. Now again, Elizabeth claims that she gave
26:03
Speaker 7: the baby to a couple in the park, handed over
26:06
Speaker 7: the bag, handed over the baby and that was the
26:09
Speaker 7: last time that she saw him.
26:11
Speaker 1: That gives me hope. That gives me hope, Logan that
26:16
Speaker 1: baby Gabriel is still alive and he's out there. He
26:21
Speaker 1: may not even know that his parents are not his bioparents.
26:26
Speaker 1: He may not know what Yammy Verhem is telling me
26:33
Speaker 1: corroborates what Elizabeth said.
26:36
Speaker 2: Yes, And that's why this whole time, you could convince
26:39
Speaker 2: me either way, it's fifty to fifty. For me. I
26:43
Speaker 2: want to believe he's out there, and well, you know,
26:45
Speaker 2: we're searching for him and just hopefully we find him someday.
26:50
Speaker 2: I mean, we just we try to hold a faith
26:52
Speaker 2: and that he'll come home from.
26:53
Speaker 1: There very often. And I think that Abel and Tim
26:57
Speaker 1: Maloney will agree with me that when you have a
27:01
Speaker 1: statement rich in detail by a witness, that it is
27:05
Speaker 1: more believable. I want you to listen to what else
27:09
Speaker 1: bio Mom Elizabeth Johnson said.
27:14
Speaker 14: At the at the bench that that you met this couple,
27:18
Speaker 14: that where were they were they at a bench that
27:22
Speaker 14: was seated next to anything in particular like a DIMENSIONE
27:28
Speaker 14: water home, dimensioneer treat.
27:30
Speaker 11: Or the johnle Jim said or.
27:37
Speaker 14: Anything else about this heart that even be call it
27:40
Speaker 14: and this is you know, this is this is the
27:42
Speaker 14: important thing. So I want you to take a take
27:44
Speaker 14: a miment to to relive that moment so fast. Okay, well,
27:51
Speaker 14: I know it's a fast moment, but it's also a
27:53
Speaker 14: very crucial moment.
27:54
Speaker 11: In your life.
27:55
Speaker 1: He's right, the investigator there saying, yes, it was a
27:58
Speaker 1: fast moment, but it was a crucial moment. We all
28:01
Speaker 1: have those moments that stick with us forever, and they
28:05
Speaker 1: are just that a moment, not a minute, not an hour,
28:10
Speaker 1: a moment. Listen to what else? She says, I looked
28:15
Speaker 1: a little park.
28:18
Speaker 11: Shit as bead walking. I saw a couple sitting down
28:21
Speaker 11: on the bench, and I show the second TI walk
28:23
Speaker 11: the other thing. He said my name, So it wasn't
28:28
Speaker 11: the bench.
28:29
Speaker 8: Was the bench that she saw a couple in basically
28:31
Speaker 8: within your vision pretty much as soon as you.
28:34
Speaker 11: Got to her, Oh Sam Way Park. I have walked
28:40
Speaker 11: out of my mom into the park and walked around.
28:44
Speaker 11: I saw them my heart looking around.
28:48
Speaker 1: She says. She walked into the park and was looking
28:52
Speaker 1: around for them, which tells me Yami Verhem that this
29:00
Speaker 1: was set up ahead of time, and I'm thinking back
29:04
Speaker 1: to what was in her journal, and those notes in
29:07
Speaker 1: her journal were contemporaneous to that time where she was
29:10
Speaker 1: writing out directions to get to this park. Now, at
29:13
Speaker 1: the park, is it true? There's a bench that has
29:16
Speaker 1: been described. Yes, there is a bench.
29:19
Speaker 7: There are picnic tables, there's an area for the kids
29:22
Speaker 7: to play, there's I mean, it's a normal park. You
29:26
Speaker 7: do have to walk a little bit to get to
29:28
Speaker 7: some of those picnic tables and benches that are there.
29:32
Speaker 1: Now.
29:33
Speaker 7: Again, if you look at her journal, it's there. But
29:36
Speaker 7: even more important, if you look also, we have the
29:40
Speaker 7: log of calls between Jack Smith, Tammy Smith, Elizabeth Logan.
29:46
Speaker 7: We were able to get all of that from the film,
29:49
Speaker 7: and there's a flurry of activity going on. I mean,
29:54
Speaker 7: it's there. It is there if you look at the
29:57
Speaker 7: phone logs and right before she went, who did she
30:00
Speaker 7: talk to?
30:01
Speaker 1: Again, it was in that journal.
30:04
Speaker 7: Now do we believe that, you know, maybe it was
30:07
Speaker 7: set up and it never happened. That could be, or
30:10
Speaker 7: it was set up and she did meet a couple
30:13
Speaker 7: in the park.
30:20
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Karen start with me, renowned
30:27
Speaker 1: as psychologist, TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com.
30:31
Speaker 1: That's Karen with the sea if you were looking for her, Karen.
30:36
Speaker 1: This woman, Elizabeth Johnson, seems to manipulate everyone around her,
30:44
Speaker 1: And I could see this couple, Tammy and Jack believing
30:50
Speaker 1: everything she said. She's very believable and believing that it
30:56
Speaker 1: was up to them to save baby Gabriel and helping
30:59
Speaker 1: her her. Janni Rahem believes that Jack, who would have
31:06
Speaker 1: been an adoptive dad except biodad, was not adopting his
31:10
Speaker 1: son out. He wants the baby. He wants Baby Gabriel.
31:17
Speaker 1: So with this flurry of phone calls between her bio
31:22
Speaker 1: mom and Jack trying to help her, that tends to
31:29
Speaker 1: give support to the story that she later told that
31:34
Speaker 1: she gave the baby away to the couple she met
31:37
Speaker 1: in this part. How is it narcissistic? People can manipulate
31:43
Speaker 1: others so well, Nancy.
31:45
Speaker 5: They're really so adepted being able to convince people. They
31:50
Speaker 5: they're charming, they're smart, they're able to let you feel like, wow,
31:55
Speaker 5: I really need to help this person. And yet if
31:58
Speaker 5: you hear her talking, you don't get any sense of
32:01
Speaker 5: attachment to this child. You had the twins, I mean,
32:05
Speaker 5: you love them, you care about them. This woman is
32:08
Speaker 5: all over the place, trying to get rid of her
32:11
Speaker 5: baby like it's a dog, not a real person, and
32:16
Speaker 5: very convincing to people around her that they need a
32:19
Speaker 5: help because they're worried. They probably have more connection to
32:23
Speaker 5: the baby than she ever did, so it is plausible
32:27
Speaker 5: that this actually did happen. She wanted to get rid
32:30
Speaker 5: of him, She really wanted someone to take him, and
32:34
Speaker 5: people are always looking for babies, aren't.
32:37
Speaker 1: Where is baby Gabriel? Did his mother actually give him
32:43
Speaker 1: away to a couple in apart It would not have
32:46
Speaker 1: been the first time she tried to give him away
32:49
Speaker 1: or adopt him out without his dad having any idea
32:53
Speaker 1: what she was up to. Now here's her description of
32:57
Speaker 1: the couple that took baby Gabriel with a couple.
33:04
Speaker 14: Didn't didn't describe the metaphor me again, this is this
33:06
Speaker 14: is some of that. Gim me you know, there's a
33:09
Speaker 14: group of time, and so I take as much time.
33:14
Speaker 14: And again, middle ages, I know, you know, let me.
33:18
Speaker 11: I just want to ask you what lay.
33:26
Speaker 1: A middle aged Yeah?
33:28
Speaker 14: Okay?
33:30
Speaker 1: To Abel Pina joining us, the director of Project absentis
33:35
Speaker 1: on the search for baby Gabriel. What's the best description
33:38
Speaker 1: we have of the couple that she gave baby Gabriel to.
33:42
Speaker 10: Yeah, we don't have much of a description of that couple.
33:46
Speaker 10: I think she's very vague in the descriptions she gives,
33:50
Speaker 10: and I think really just the interview that was conducted.
33:53
Speaker 10: We've listened to the interview, uh that she had with police,
33:57
Speaker 10: and quite honestly, it's it's the there needed to be
34:01
Speaker 10: more open ended questions rather than there were kind of
34:04
Speaker 10: a lot of lead on questions. I mean, how many
34:07
Speaker 10: park benches are in a park. I mean there's park
34:10
Speaker 10: benches in parks, there's playgrounds in parks. She could have
34:14
Speaker 10: described any park in the United States.
34:17
Speaker 6: I think there were.
34:18
Speaker 1: Didn't her phone paying in that area where the park was?
34:22
Speaker 9: It did ping there.
34:24
Speaker 10: She could have been at the park. But all this
34:28
Speaker 10: and she could have certainly described Raymond Rincus Park because
34:31
Speaker 10: the way she described it was Raymond Rincus. But it's
34:34
Speaker 10: also a description of many parks here in San Antonio.
34:37
Speaker 1: So okay, let me understand something to Yammy vere him
34:41
Speaker 1: following up on what Abel is telling us. I want
34:44
Speaker 1: to gather quickly, Marshall, what we know about that park.
34:48
Speaker 1: Her phone painged at the park. She describes the park.
34:52
Speaker 1: She describes going in and looking around and finally seeing
34:56
Speaker 1: the couple. Another thing in her journal there handwritten descriptions
35:03
Speaker 1: about how to get to the park. And not only that,
35:07
Speaker 1: an employee at that motel described seeing her speaking to
35:13
Speaker 1: a couple beforehand that resembles the description we're given. Is
35:18
Speaker 1: all of that correct? Correct?
35:20
Speaker 7: A lot of those things do match up also with
35:24
Speaker 7: what the clerk said. And I'm telling you I talked
35:28
Speaker 7: to that clerk. She gave the description she said where
35:31
Speaker 7: they were standing. The other thing that stands out about
35:36
Speaker 7: all of this someone was with Elizabeth while she was here.
35:40
Speaker 7: That clerk told me that when she went to knock
35:43
Speaker 7: on the door to tell her that they had to
35:45
Speaker 7: move to the hotel room upstairs, that there was a
35:49
Speaker 7: man that answered that door. So who was the person
35:53
Speaker 7: that was with Elizabeth. There's many questions that have yet
35:57
Speaker 7: to be answered to the rest of the world. Maybe
36:00
Speaker 7: the police department in San Antonio knows more about it.
36:03
Speaker 7: But when I've asked, the person who used to be
36:06
Speaker 7: the lead investigator who's now one of the deputy chiefs, oh, no,
36:10
Speaker 7: that wasn't really anything. Well, I talked to the clerk
36:14
Speaker 7: before they did. I know what she told me, and
36:17
Speaker 7: this young woman had no reason to lie. She was
36:20
Speaker 7: actually quite scared to even talk to us then.
36:23
Speaker 1: And yet another effort to lash out at the bio
36:28
Speaker 1: dad Logan McCreary, bio mom throws out the worst possibility.
36:35
Speaker 3: Even though Elizabeth Johnson told Baby Gabriel's father she killed
36:39
Speaker 3: his son, many people believe she only said that to
36:42
Speaker 3: her Logan McCreary. At the time of her arrest. Three
36:45
Speaker 3: days after leaving San Antonio by bus, she tells the
36:48
Speaker 3: FBI she gave the baby away.
36:51
Speaker 9: She gave Elizabeth her diamond ring.
36:55
Speaker 8: It was about a three five thousand dollar ring, her
36:59
Speaker 8: wedding ring.
37:01
Speaker 5: I was from care that day, but my granddaughter was
37:03
Speaker 5: at her house and so she shot her give it
37:07
Speaker 5: away to Elizabeth.
37:10
Speaker 9: That was before the baby disappeared, so.
37:13
Speaker 1: There was a money exchange. A thirty five thousand dollars
37:18
Speaker 1: ring was given to Elizabeth Johnson just before baby Gabriel disappears.
37:27
Speaker 1: All of this supporting the theory that Baby Gabriel was
37:30
Speaker 1: given away or sold by mommy. Yet there's this I
37:36
Speaker 1: would do you know that?
37:41
Speaker 9: So I don't yeah before my baby.
37:52
Speaker 1: Boy to Sandy Paters joining us this is baby Gabriel's aunt, Sandy.
38:00
Speaker 1: I know when you and Logan hear that, it's like
38:04
Speaker 1: a dagger in your heart. But what do you make
38:08
Speaker 1: of her reason for telling Logan she had killed the
38:14
Speaker 1: baby when all the evidence tends to point to the
38:18
Speaker 1: fact that she gave or sold the baby, gave away
38:21
Speaker 1: or sold baby Gabriel.
38:23
Speaker 8: When I first heard the recording of Elizabeth and her
38:26
Speaker 8: saying that she killed Gabriel, I believed her, and so,
38:30
Speaker 8: like you said, it was unbelievably emotional. However, I think
38:40
Speaker 8: Elizabeth she was very close to Logan and very jealous
38:47
Speaker 8: of Logan's relationship with Gabriel, and I believed that at
38:51
Speaker 8: the beginning, when Elizabeth told Logan that she killed the baby, she.
38:57
Speaker 9: Thought Logan would Logan would be able.
39:02
Speaker 8: To fix their relationship, go back to what it used
39:05
Speaker 8: to be like Gabriel wouldn't be with them anymore, and
39:09
Speaker 8: things would be fine. She had no idea that Logan
39:12
Speaker 8: would take this to the police and that it would
39:15
Speaker 8: go national and be the story that it ended up being.
39:19
Speaker 1: To Yami Verrheim joining us Kabb Fox twenty nine, San Antonio,
39:26
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been the first time that she lashed
39:29
Speaker 1: out at Logan, lying or even in her behavior, her
39:34
Speaker 1: physical behavior, just to get back at him, just to
39:38
Speaker 1: hurt him. So much of the evidence points to the
39:41
Speaker 1: fact that she sold her own baby.
39:44
Speaker 7: That may be the case, and there was a ring
39:46
Speaker 7: that was found in her possession of San Antonio police
39:51
Speaker 7: department downplayed it, said that wasn't worth anything, but when
39:55
Speaker 7: we went back and looked at the records from Tempe,
39:58
Speaker 7: we were told that that ring was worth a certain
40:01
Speaker 7: amount of money. Now, we also had an adoption specialist
40:05
Speaker 7: that I had found independently, and she told us in
40:09
Speaker 7: San Antonio, San Antonio is known to be an area
40:13
Speaker 7: where children can be adopted out a little bit easier
40:17
Speaker 7: because of Texas loss number one and number two, that
40:20
Speaker 7: it is customary for the birth mom to get some
40:25
Speaker 7: sort of a quote unquote gift. So the gift cannot
40:29
Speaker 7: be money, but it could be a ring, it could
40:31
Speaker 7: be a car, it could be something that comes from
40:35
Speaker 7: the adoptive parents. So that's why we believe that that
40:39
Speaker 7: part of the story is also true, that something was
40:44
Speaker 7: given to her in exchange for the baby. Did she
40:47
Speaker 7: give the baby for sure to a couple we don't know,
40:51
Speaker 7: and I think that's part of the reason why Logan
40:54
Speaker 7: says fifty to fifty. I'll be honest with you, I'm
40:57
Speaker 7: fifty to fifty to.
40:59
Speaker 1: Logan mcquery, Logan, what is your message tonight in your
41:03
Speaker 1: attempt to find your baby?
41:06
Speaker 2: Just if anybody knows anything, come forward. The littlest thing
41:10
Speaker 2: could help. You know, we still want to believe that
41:12
Speaker 2: Gabriel's out there and we just want to meet him.
41:17
Speaker 2: See how we doing.
41:18
Speaker 1: Do you ever dream about Gabriel?
41:21
Speaker 3: Yeah?
41:22
Speaker 2: Definitely, what what do you dream Someday he'll be found
41:28
Speaker 2: and can meet my kids, me and my family. You know,
41:31
Speaker 2: he has brothers and sisters that you know still wonder
41:34
Speaker 2: where he is and wonder they're ever going to meet him.
41:39
Speaker 1: If you know or even think you know, where is
41:44
Speaker 1: a baby Gabriel? Please dial two one zero to zero
41:49
Speaker 1: seven seven six six zero. And now we remember an
41:54
Speaker 1: American hero patrol with David Evans, San Antonio PD shot
41:59
Speaker 1: and killed the line of duty thirty years with l
42:03
Speaker 1: E law enforcement, leaving behind a grieving wife, Elizabeth, children, Jennifer,
42:10
Speaker 1: Jeffrey and Julie. American hero Patrolman David Evans, Nancy Grace
42:17
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,