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MTM-Interview with Dr. Matt Clark..Personhood Perspective on Lindsay Clancy Trial · More Than Medicine

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Hosted by author and physician Dr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: So listen up because the doctor is in.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the Country Doctor's Rusty Dusty Scrapbook.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm privileged to have online with me Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Matt Clark.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: He is the CEO of Personhood South Carolina.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just delighted to have him as my guest.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Clark, welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: Robert Brother, it's good to be with you again, my friend.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's always my privilege and a delight to have you.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Today, Dr.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Clark, I want us to talk about the uh Lindsay Clancy trial that just went on.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and and so many of the issues that went on in that trial uh are directly connected to the personhood issues that are so dear to your and my heart.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to speak to some of those issues that are so not even tangential but so directly connected to the uh trial and the issues that uh are so germane to Lindsay Clancy's trial.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is that okay with you?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, Robert, it's uh grievous what has occurred in our uh to think of those three children who were murdered and um the loss that the family has experienced, and we consider the forces at work that led to this situation and to this what we think is an unjust mistrial.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, I'm I'm happy to talk to you about it, Robert.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: And we do think it connects directly to the deceptions in place that are supporting the ongoing legalized murder of babies in our state and nation and the absence of justice for everyone involved in the criminal behavior.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, so some of my listeners don't really may not know everything about the Lindsay Clancy trial, and um I we don't have time to go through all the um issues involved, but just so people who are um obtuse and living in a corner, um uh we want to give them a an update.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Miss Clancy was a nurse and she uh c murdered three of her children and she claimed that she was suffering from postpartum depression and that she was under the influence of psychiatric medication.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um in the trial it became apparent that she had sent her husband away from the house and while he was running errands under her instruction she killed three of her children.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then it became apparent that she took uh multiple medications and then even tried to jump out of a window.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so at trial, um the issues that were before the jurors were um very emotional issues and the jurors ended up in a um what's the word I'm looking for?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh a mis it was a mistrial because they could not all agree.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um there was one seems like it was just one juror, a male juror, who held out that she was indeed fully responsible for her actions and that she did indeed murder her three little children.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so talk to me, Dr.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Clark, about the issues as you see them, as the director CEO of Personhood South Carolina.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: What what do you see as the primary issues um that right thinking people should be considering?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Robert, from our perspective there were obvious parallels.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: We listened to the national discussion, we saw the mistrial 11 to 1, 11 of the jurors desiring to acquit Lindsay Clancy, and one not agreeing to acquit.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: And the last 50 years in the pro-life movement, we have been taught by the pro-life establishment robber that a woman is always and only a victim.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: So if a woman hires an abortionist to murder her child, that woman is only a victim.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: She's not a perpetrator, and she should never face any civil or criminal penalties.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: And even now that abortion pills are being ordered by the mothers, and then they receive them in the mail and they open the package and they swallow the pills at home and kill their children.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: Even now, Robert, that the mothers are the only one involved in the murder of the baby.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: They're still saying the same thing that these mothers should never face any civil or criminal prosecution.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_04: And that's been preached as gospel from the pro-life establishment for decades upon decades.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so that idea is just prevalent throughout the culture.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_04: And now, Robert, I'm not talking about pro-abortion people.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking about Christians around the nation have been educated by the pro-life world to think in a fashion that's contrary to God's word.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: Now, this is interesting, Robert, because here we also see that idea from the pro-life establishment intersecting with the pro-abortion world.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think you saw that article from the Journal of Medical Ethics.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's the number one ranked medical ethics journal in the world in Google Scholar right now.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's overseen by the British Medical Journal.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: And in 2012, that journal published an article that made the case that it's acceptable to kill a baby after birth, and argued that all the reasons that are used to justify abortion before birth are still in place after birth and are not undone just because the child has been born.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: What was their justification for that line of reasoning?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, they're just being consistent.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_04: That's the thing.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: If a child's life can be taken inside the womb in order to help the mother or help the family for reasons that mothers can um come up with without any questioning, moms are allowed to kill their children without giving any reasons, then those types of ideas can be transferred outside the womb as well.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: There's nothing magical about the womb that suddenly makes the child's rights greater than the mother's rights.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's or the family's rights.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's but that was their argument, Robert.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's chilling in its consistency.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so we believe these two kinds of thoughts, one emerging from the right and the other from the left, have swirled together to impact our culture, to lead to the kind of nonsense we were hearing from the media and what we saw from the mistrial.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, now, Robert, look, this is not a complicated case, as you've said.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_04: This woman murdered her three children.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: She strangled them to death, is what we're told.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just cold-blooded.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's premeditated.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's nothing mysterious about what she did.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not complicated at all, is it?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's not.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's not complicated what she did.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: And the whole argument comes down to why did she do it?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where the current legal system is so confused, Robert.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: And the ideas that I've already given to you that a woman should never be seen as a perpetrator, and that babies really, there's no reason to think why a child's life outside the womb is any more important than inside the womb if the mother desires for that child not to live.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: Those two things are contributing to a greater rationality regarding this idea of insanity, that you can plead insanity or you can be under the influence of some kind of other force that makes you not guilty of the crime.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that's nonsense because the guilt or innocence is found in the facts of the case.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: And Lindsay Clancy murdered her three children.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: Now, was she suffering?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: And does it appear as though she needed a lot of help?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: And do folks like me and you, Robert, and others want her to get help?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: We don't want her to suffer.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: We want her to get help and find peace and joy, and especially to know the Lord Jesus.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: And we want to help with that as much as we can.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: We have true compassion.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: But the compassion that is a false compassion is the kind of compassion that can take her suffering and her difficulties and use it to claim that she did not commit the crime, to claim that she is not guilty of the act that she committed.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's grievous to us.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, if you look in scripture, wasn't Saul under the influence of an evil spirit when he tried to kill David?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Threw a spear at him.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and wasn't uh Judas under the influence of Satan when he betrayed Jesus, and wasn't he held accountable for his actions?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: And Ananias didn't didn't Satan um enter or influence Ananias?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's right, and yet he was still held accountable for his actions.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so the scriptures doesn't create do not create a category where the reasons why a person does something can contribute to guilt or innocence for the crime.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: Either the crime occurred or it did not.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: Now then there can certainly be mitigating factors after the fact, after the jury finds the defendant guilty.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the way it's been in good jurisprudence for a long time up until recent history.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me ask you this.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: What if in her postpartum depression and under the influence of psychoactive drugs she had killed her husband instead of her three children?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Would that have changed things?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's a fascinating question.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: Or if she had killed another woman who was a mother.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Or if she killed another mother's children.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: And and so these are really important questions.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, her suffering by no means required her to kill her children.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um she's uh an example, uh, this case is an example of the great confusion over life in our culture, Robert.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the the Christian approach is very simple from the Bible.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_04: God made each one of us in his own image, and every life is to be protected by law, regardless of where that life is, how big that life is, how healthy it is, how that how that child came into existence.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: That everyone is to be protected without exception.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: And every life is to be granted dignity, Robert, so that if a murder does occur, justice is required.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: The state is required to carry out justice on every single person involved in that act.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: And it's very simple.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Those are the basic maxims of biblical personhood.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, that's right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's i that has been the truth for centuries, that when somebody commits murder, then the murderer must face justice.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's only in recent decades that that has been turned on its head and that women can kill their unborn children, and now all of a sudden a woman can kill her born children without consequence.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And now wrong has become right and right has become wrong.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Good has become evil and evil has become good.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we see our culture is now perverted and corrupted.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: It really is, Robert.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: And the the goal that we have in personhood is to educate our state to these realities so that the individuals in our state, especially the Christians who've been taught this false information from the pro-life establishment for decades, will see through it and understand the inconsistency, the self-contradictory nature of their position.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, think about it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: If a man puts a poison in a drink and the woman who's pregnant drinks it and that child dies, that man will be charged with homicide.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: But if the woman does it herself, she is the law explicitly states that she cannot be charged with any criminal act.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's nonsense, Robert.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: And we hope that through efforts like what you're doing with your podcast and other platforms, we can get the message out and help the folks in our state, especially Christians who think biblically, to see that the pro-life establishment in our state is confused and conflicted on this critical topic.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: And uh they really need to uh come out, um, really honestly, brother, just repent of their mistake and just say, hey, you know what?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: We were wrong.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: Let's all work together to do what we need to do in our state.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it would go so far uh because so many people listen to them and so many legislators hide behind their endorsements.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're really praying, Robert, that the people of our state will wake up and see the truth on this topic and stop listening to the pro-life establishment's confusing message.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how can folks find out about Personhood South Carolina and the organization uh that you're uh uh respecting?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, our first our Facebook page is pretty active.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: They can go to Personhood South Carolina and keep up with um our analysis of what's going on at the state house and the legislative efforts, and we will often give our take on particular pieces of legislation or even do analysis of all of the various competing pro-life legisl legislation to give people a an understanding of what's going on and what to support and what to put in the trash pile.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I understand.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, can people contribute financially to personhood SC?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: They can if they go to the Facebook page, they'll find our website and they can donate through our website.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: They can do one-time donation, they become our monthly donors, or which are really the backbone of paying for everything that we do and our educational efforts throughout the state.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Any last comments before we close out?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: Well, brother, ultimately we need revival in our state.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: Politics is downstream from culture, which is downstream from the hearts of the people.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um religion is culture is religion externalized.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so may the Lord bless us, Robert, with a great revival where everybody looks to Jesus, confesses their sin, and trusts in him, and that great transformation will show up everywhere in our state, especially at the State House.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're right.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: You're exactly right.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I had a I had a patient of mine one time who was um, well, he he told me honestly, he said, Doc, I've been an outlaw all my life.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I ended up sharing the gospel with him and he he became a believer.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um uh a couple of weeks later he ended up going to a pro-life rally with me and and some Christians from my church.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And as we were traveling to Greenville, South Carolina to the rally in an old beat up church van, he started laughing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Frank, what are you laughing at?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: He said, if all my old friends could see me now.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, What do you mean?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Well dog, all my life I thought abortion was the best thing that ever happened for women.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And now look at me, I'm going to a pro life rally with a bunch of fundamental Baptists.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and here's the funny thing, I had never said anything to him about being pro-life.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing that had changed in his life is that he'd become a born again Christian.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you see, without any conversation or discussion, this guy had gone from being an outlaw and had gone from being a pro-choice outlaw to suddenly becoming a Christian and becoming a pro-life Christian.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing that had changed in his life was becoming a born-again believer.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And his eyes were opened and he saw the truth.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you're so right, we definitely need a spiritual awakening, a revival in our state and in our nation.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when the Holy Spirit of God changes our hearts and opens our eyes, people automatically see the truth about abortion, about personhood, and about the issue like this Lindsey Clancy trial.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: People begin to see the truth without you and I even saying a word.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: My friend Frank, he saw the truth without me saying a word.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: The Holy Spirit opened his eyes to see the truth.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, listen, all you and I have to do is give people Jesus, as Anne Graham Lott used to say.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just give them Jesus, and the Spirit of God will show them the truth about this whole personhood pro-life, pro-choice debate.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: Amen.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the fact that Jesus came and the incarnation where he dwelled in the womb of his mother Mary, uh, and then he was born, that alone proves to us that there's there's no doubt that every life inside the womb must be protected.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Must be protected.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's just precious.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Life is precious.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right, my time, my time is running out, brother.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: We got to keep moving.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right, listen, you're listening to More Than Medicine.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Dr.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Jackson.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Dr.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Matthew Clark, the CEO of Personhood, South Carolina.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Clark, I really thank you for your time and your expertise.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's always a pleasure, brother.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: You listen to More Than Medicine.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be back again next week.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, remember Jesus loves you and your doctor loves you.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Until next week, may God bless you.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Real good.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, Instagram, or webpage at JacksonFamily Ministry.com.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Also, don't forget to check out Dr.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Jackson's books that are available on Amazon.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: The Family Doctor's Peace.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: The Truth About Life.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's first book and The Family Doctor's Peace.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's Truth About Speed.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Equipping believers for evangelism is