Latest / THE STILL REAL TO US SHOW – Real Guy Radio / Remembering Benjamin “PAC” Satterley | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #868 – 10/1/26

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Remembering Benjamin “PAC” Satterley | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #868 – 10/1/26 · THE STILL REAL TO US SHOW – Real Guy Radio

• 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,320 Welcome everybody to this week's edition of the Sto Realta show episode number 868 for October 1st, 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:14,800 2026. Obviously a different version of the Sto Realta show. Unfortunately throughout the years we 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:22,000 have had to do these shows when news likes that like this has dropped. We will not be covering 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:29,440 AW all out today. We will not be having our normal show. Instead we are going to be taking the next. 5 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:36,560 However many minutes this episode is unfortunately remembering the life of Benjamin Pock 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:43,040 Saturday who did wrestle this past Saturday at AW All Out known as Pock and AW Neville, 7 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:52,800 Adrian Neville and WWE and NXT. This is a heavy one. I don't feel like doing a normal show. 8 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,840 You've got Jeff Peck, you've got Dr. Trey Franklin, Benjamin Saturday knowing around the world 9 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,840 of this Pock and WWE fans as Neville passed away this past Sunday unexpectedly at the age of 40. 10 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,800 I just turned 40 years old myself. AW announced this passing the night after all out. No cause of 11 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,440 death has been publicly disclosed and of course we're not going to be speculating about that on this 12 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:22,160 week's edition of the podcast by any means or nor anytime soon. Or ever quite honestly. Today is 13 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,120 simply about remembering Ben Pock talking about the rest where we watch for so many years, the moments 14 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,920 that stayed with us and the legacy. He leaves behind. Usually this is where we get into the biggest 15 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,720 stories in wrestling. This week again, neither one of us really wanted to do that after the passing 16 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,120 of Pock, Neville, the man that gravity forgot. It didn't feel right to talk about anything else 17 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:50,960 so this episode is just us remembering him. Dr. Trey, heavy show, heavy thing to go through. 18 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:58,400 Sadly we've we've been through this way too many times as wrestling fans as hosts of a wrestling 19 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,400 podcast. Here we are again. What was your immediate reaction when you heard the news about Pock passing 20 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:12,560 away on Sunday night? I think I got to feel worked through Twitter and then immediately everybody was 21 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:18,400 on there saying, "Oh it's fake news, it's a hoax, AEW, I act." And it was just shocking because like you 22 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:27,520 said, he had just wrestled an incredible match at all out. And you know, just kind of monitoring it 23 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:33,040 through the evening. I mean, although it did come out officially on the AEW website officially first 24 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:42,720 really, it was just so shocking. It's just like you couldn't believe it was true and then of course, 25 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,320 you know, the way the internet does with their whole life. It's a hoax, it's fake. You know, Wikipedia says 26 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:56,720 this or Google said this. It wasn't everything updated that it kind of sank in that, you know, it's 27 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:03,760 real. It's it's truth. It's not a hoax. But you know, I'm sitting here, you know, four days after 28 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:10,640 it's announced and it still feels unreal. Like you're still just kind of like, I can't believe 29 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:15,840 that really happened. And it may not be until, you know, Fordous Closure Record the show on Wednesday, 30 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,960 but in Dynamite air tonight, it may not be until I sit down and watch Dynamite tonight that it really 31 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:31,200 kind of fully sets in that the world lost lost this man. Like just, you know, one of the better 32 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:38,320 in-ring talents of a generation. I'm sure we'll get born to all that stuff here. I love it. But like, 33 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:45,520 yeah, as of right now, it still just kind of feels not real and unsettling in a lot of ways as well. 34 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:52,320 Yeah, I'm really numb to it. I saw the news about like 50 minutes after it dropped on 35 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,800 AW social media channels and I just happened to open up Twitter, saw it and I was like, wait, what? 36 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:05,120 Like I saw the graphic. I'm like, what does this say? And it was just numb to it. I mean, 37 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,880 and you look at the date. So I'm born and I'm 40 years old, like I mentioned, you look at the date's 38 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:19,040 1986, 2026 and it's like, wow, life is precious. You think about your own mortality. You think about like, 39 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,680 did something, was there an injury at all out the night before that caused this? Like, how was he found? 40 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,440 What, how long has this been going on? Like, would you have health issues? Is this real? Like, 41 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,720 you just jumped to so many conclusions and you're like scatterbrain looking to see if this is 42 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:40,160 fabricated or not, then you're seeing like, you know, some of the leading folks in the wrestling journalism 43 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:48,400 game like Sean Ross Sapp and John Albagoon Live talking about it. And it was, it was difficult to take in. 44 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:54,400 I mean, it's a human being. It's someone who has a wife. I don't believe he had any children. 45 00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Had a lot of bonds with people that he was on the road with. From everything that we're reading, 46 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:07,520 was a fantastic and one of a kind human being. But while you want to give flowers in post-mortem, 47 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,840 you don't at the same moment. You want to say those things when, when people are here about what 48 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:19,040 they mean to you and how much they, how much you cherish them while they're here. And we always 49 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,360 seem to be doing that when it's, when it's after the fact, you know, all of us that live in Linnlis 50 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,640 into this podcast or part of this podcast, Dr. Trena, we've all experienced loss. And 51 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:38,080 in the wrestling community, it's a weird thing because you, at least for me, you get tied to these people, 52 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:43,680 you read up on their careers, you watch them grow as human beings. Like there is no other form of 53 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:50,240 entertainment that's like that. Like when someone starts their baseball career, you don't see them in 54 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,280 Little League and they make it to the majors and your heart is full for them. When they play the NFL, 55 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,440 you don't see them playing Pop Warner and Flag Football and they make it to the NFL someday. 56 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,360 You watch these men and women in professional wrestling, enter the ring for the very first time 57 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:12,000 after being trained and performing and getting better over time and then taking their talents to the 58 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,520 next level, which in Pox case was in WWE as Neville and then later back on the independent 59 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,160 wrestling scene in Back in A.W. as Pox. Like, and I remember hearing about him, I went back to some 60 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880 of the early shows that we, we covered here and we used to have a gentleman named UK Sue who was 61 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:34,080 this big British wrestling fan and I remember him and a former guy that would come on the show a 62 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,240 lot big time Benning Lopez, who's a big wrestling fan, lives here in the United States, them talking 63 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,480 about, we were doing like a wrestling roundtable and talking about Pock. You know, people didn't know 64 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,440 if it was Pock or Pock basically and how big he was on the British wrestling scene and this was 65 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,640 like the infancy stages of the internet where you would just have to find stuff either through tape 66 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,680 trading still or on message boards or on YouTube. I mean, there wasn't as what it is today where you 67 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,480 could go on to a streaming service and watch, you know, a wrestling promotion that is out in London 68 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:05,520 or in Germany. And that's how you kind of learned a lot about him or you'd read about him up on 69 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:12,800 PWInsider or oneRustling.com and that's how it was and it's a beautiful sport in that way Dr. 70 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:19,040 Tre where you see these people grow from their very first matches to their unfortunately last match 71 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:25,600 and there's a connection between the wrestlers and fans that is kind of unsaid but when spoken 72 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,400 out loud it's truly a beautiful thing and that's all I could kind of think about when I think about 73 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,320 Pock because he's almost like a distant family member that you don't know but you know something about 74 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:44,480 as a wrestling fan. And me being somewhat in the inner wrestling community is kind of like the 75 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,720 older seven degrees of Kevin Bacon but when you're inside the business it's like two. 76 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,000 You know I'm literally like they're not just like having this all happen I'm like I'm watching 77 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:02,480 like guys I'm friends with like post these heartfelt messages about you know their experiences 78 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:09,520 with Pock and you know it's just like damn like in you your heart goes that even more because you know 79 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,640 people you care about are hurting because you know of his passing it just it 80 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,160 once it kind of puts everything in perspective like you know you're mentioning earlier like you 81 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,640 just turned 40 I turned 50 next year like this this guy's you know this young man's like 10 years 82 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,480 younger than me and I'm like yeah he's traveled the world and he's seen a lot of stuff but I'm like yeah 83 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:41,200 it's amazing I'm still here and that person is gone so you get a little bit of like survivor guilt 84 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:48,960 off of it in a sense well but you know it's it's it's weird sometimes when when we lose somebody in 85 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:55,360 this business and you see a lot of outpouring of love but then there are people who are quiet about 86 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,320 it it's like okay maybe those people are just kind of holding their tongue because they didn't like 87 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:07,200 this person it's this has been uniformly like you know just one of the nicest sweetest guys in 88 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:14,720 in wrestling and you know it's ironic and tragic that one of the last things he posts it was his 89 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,920 picture with the butcher you know from just you know they just posted just a couple weeks ago after 90 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:26,400 the butcher's passing it's just it's heartbreaking in the sense of losing somebody who's so 91 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,520 incredibly talented way before we should have lost them it's heartbreaking when I see people that 92 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:37,600 I love and I care about hurting so badly because we lost this person is just sad for the 93 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,920 wrestling community's whole because you know we went through this kind of in the early 2000s where we 94 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:50,080 lost a bunch of guys you know you know the British Bulldog and all these guys you know they run the 95 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:56,000 same time and then we had a reprieve and it just kind of feels like the last year and a half has 96 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:04,000 been like no we're getting back into that that circle again and it's just like man like it's just 97 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,480 succing all these people that we kind of look up to and admire and cherish and you know just 98 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:18,400 losing their lives way before it's really time what was the first pock novel moment that came into 99 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:26,960 your mind as you kind of reminisce about him dr. tre so I knew absolutely nothing about pock really 100 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,920 until he got to NXT like I would read about him and it was almost like big foot of sense I make 101 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,160 these jokes sometimes where it's like yeah there are rumors of this really talented British guy 102 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:45,760 doesn't crazy aerial stuff but I could never see him like I would get these videos and it'd be kind 103 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,840 of blurry or grainy or they're just shot in a weird angle and you just you're like okay that guy 104 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:58,000 seems cool just don't know about him you know and you and I when when we first started to show like 105 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:06,240 I was watching NXT on YouTube before got moved to the network and and I kind of break up NXT 106 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,520 there's like the YouTube air which to me is defined by bodalis and then there's the original 107 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:20,160 network launch which to me is defined by Neville and Sammy's ain't and that first when he first 108 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:27,200 debuted in NXT I was like man first of all he's way smaller than I thought he was going to be I hear 109 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,200 about him on the internet and you hear like guys like you case two and these guys talking about him 110 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,760 first you're like man this guy's larger than life like he's a real life superhero and then you 111 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:45,280 see me like he's like 5'8" and 170 pounds he's like this flying ball of muscle with these really 112 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,920 pointy ears I kind of thought like he was part elf when I first saw him I was like well maybe this is 113 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:58,240 when Peter Jackson wrote Lord of the Rings Neville was the guy he was using the typecast you know 114 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,600 some of these people but you see him in the ring and you're like man this guy is incredible 115 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,840 so though those first early matches in NXT when they got just basically kind of showcase 116 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,840 his talents but then really that latter match with bow Dallas for the NXT championship was a 117 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:22,240 kind of really kind of like set it off from like now this guy's incredible like I I think you and I 118 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,320 you can go back and look at the history of the show like I always said like I never thought WWE 119 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,800 would use him right because of his size but NXT he was used right and it made a ton of sense and 120 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,960 but that first latter match with bow Dallas where he won the NXT championship was really kind of 121 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:44,480 what cemented my fandom for Pock. Let's look at the journey here for Pock so he's born in Newcastle 122 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:52,240 upon Ty and England began his professional wrestling career in 2004 built his reputation 123 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,120 international and long before WWE wrestled across the British scene dragging AWG and around the world 124 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,800 his athleticism was the obvious hook but what's separated was how precise everything looked 125 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:10,400 the spectacular never-loved reckless with Pock/Nevil the black arrow became one of wrestling 126 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,840 became one of wrestling's most recognizable finishing moves the corkscrew shooting star press 127 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,560 like in the late 90s the shooting star press was already a difficult move and here he is doing a 128 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:27,120 corkscrew shooting star press he had a rivalry with ricochet a Pock and ricochet became defining 129 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:33,040 rivals during their dragging eight years in November 2011 ricochet ended Pock's 447 day 130 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,000 opened the brave gate championship reign that rivalry became part of the blueprint for the explosive 131 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,080 athletic style that would become increasingly influential throughout wrestling today. 132 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,880 What stood out about Pock he could do things athletically that very few wrestlers could do but he 133 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:53,680 was never only a quote "high flyer" it was power intensity, technical wrestling, selling, pacing 134 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,560 and character work that eventually made him one of the most complete wrestlers of his generation. 135 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,200 Dr. Trey was there ever another wrestler whose movement in the ring looked quite like his? 136 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:19,120 This sounds bad. The closest thing I am not on the high flying level but the way his movement 137 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,160 in the ring was Chris Benoit. Everything was so Chris. I think there were lurid times watching 138 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:34,800 level or a K-A Pock that I'm like is he really hitting this guy? Is it like he blurred the line? 139 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:42,000 A lot of times in the ring between that like is this real? Is this fake? Because everything he did was 140 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:50,400 so Chris so clean so violent looking but in a lot of ways like really beautifully artistically 141 00:14:50,400 --> 00:15:00,400 done. Like he was to me like when you talk about like the artistry of pro wrestling Pock is an artist 142 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,720 like everything he did was just that beautiful blend of violence and poetry at the same time. 143 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:16,480 Yeah no he is he's in an eggma. His style in the ring is unmatched and I like the comparisons. 144 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:24,720 It reminds me of Benoit, Dynamite Kid, that short, stocky muscular person just like this muscle hamster 145 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:32,320 that's out there and he was able to evolve where he was just this short skinny with muscle still 146 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,320 high flyer into a walking muscle that could do things in the ring that you've never seen before. 147 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:45,040 Truly exceptional. Always love the character work. Loved how much he kept K-Fabe in the last, 148 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,240 I would say 8 to 10 years of his career when he was in NXT and it was the man that gravity 149 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320 forgot he was a baby face that was a very good baby face. When he started becoming the king of the 150 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:01,120 Cruiserweights and turned heel one of a kind. They put that cape on him for a little bit and then when 151 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,800 he started doing King of the Cruiserweights which basically morphed into who he was towards the end 152 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:17,040 of his career. It's just such a fun overall character and for me my real first introduction to him 153 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:24,640 like you Dr. Trey was those NXT years. So Pock Neville signed with WWE in 2012 becoming 154 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,560 an agey Neville. He was an NXT Tag Team Champion and NXT Champion. He held the NXT Championship 155 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,000 for 286 days from February 27th which was that launch for the WWE Network when they did NXT 156 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,360 arrival where he defeated Bodeals in that latter match to December 11th 2014 where he dropped the 157 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,720 title to I believe Samisane. His Championship run came during the era when NXT was transforming from 158 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,880 developmental television to the brand's brand that fans become passionate about today. His title 159 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,760 lost to Samisane and NXT takeover our evolution in December remains connected to one of the defying 160 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:04,080 stories of early NXT. He debuted on WWE's main roster in 2015 to solely his Neville. They dropped 161 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:09,840 Adrian WWE market him as the man that gravity forgot. His red arrow immediately gave WWE 162 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,280 something visually different from almost anyone else on the roster. He reinvented himself as a heal 163 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,360 and became the King of the Cruiserweights, won the WWE Cruiserweights Championship twice, first reign 164 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:25,360 last in 196 days. The character showed a completely different side of him, bitter, intense, vicious 165 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:29,760 and most importantly believable. It proved he could be much more than a spectacular athlete 166 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,280 WWE originally presented. What stood out for him there were two very two very different WWE 167 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,480 versions of Benjamin Sattelay worth remembering. Adrian Neville, the breathtaking babyface who 168 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,760 helped establish NXT and then Neville, the angry King of the Cruiserweights who showed how good his 169 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:53,200 character work would be. Dr. Trey, which WWE version of Neville did you enjoy the most? 170 00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:01,920 >> Well, naturally the villain in me loved the King of the Cruiserweights version of Neville more. 171 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:13,200 I like the pissed off angry guy because it's hard to be an undersized heal without a stable around 172 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:19,200 you. In the rest of me, calm the heaters. You get the small, pocket arrogant heal and then he's 173 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,560 got the big muscle guy behind him. Neville never had that. He didn't need it. Now in WWE's 174 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:33,040 defense in a sense, they kept him in the Cruiserweights division where he was physically on par with 175 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:39,840 everybody else. But that run, especially when he brought in the brutalizer as a finisher, you're 176 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:47,360 just like man, that realism in the character. It felt so natural for me, so pissed off and angry 177 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:56,160 and bitter. It just fit him so well, which was kind of a surprising twist because the Adrian Neville 178 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,960 character, the high-flying baby face, it never showed any inkling of that. But that Neville, 179 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:08,320 brutalizer, King of the Cruiserweights, that guy, it was really like to this day. There are very 180 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:15,680 few characters that I watch and I go I wouldn't mess with that guy. That version of Neville was that guy. 181 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,120 I'm like yeah, that guy just looks too pissed off, too angry, too muscular and too athletic for me to 182 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:29,840 even fathom competing against in anything. It was as close to real life characterization as I've 183 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:37,040 seen in wrestling in a long time. Yeah, that was him in a nutshell. I mean he was one of a kind. 184 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:46,000 He was truly, again, I just used the word enigma when I think of him and I loved, really now, again, 185 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,920 here we are throwing our flowers for it's in, but when you think about the character adjustments he made 186 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:56,080 in WWE, I mean it's phenomenal. He went from one end of the spectrum of being like this comic book hero 187 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:04,240 to the bastard that we ended up seeing in AEW. And that's where it takes us here, Dr. Trey, and this next 188 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,760 chapter as we remember, Pock Benjamin Saddley was his time in AEW. He joined AEW in 2019. 189 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,920 As one of the promotions important early signings, he was red hot on the independent wrestling scene. He 190 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,920 had not lost on the independent wrestling scene and there was like a little bit of a 191 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,560 cripple about him and his feud with Hangman out of page because he didn't want to lose to Hangman 192 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,320 Page and like there was something where he was gone for AEW for a little bit and maybe talking 193 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:39,040 in WWE about a return, then eventually came back to AEW. The name Pock returned but the presentation 194 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,360 was completely different from WWE's Neville. The bastard felt like the fully realized version of 195 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:49,840 everything he could do, a lead athlete, dangerous wrestler and believable character. There was the 196 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,560 death triangle triangle, his partnership with Penton Ray Phoenix became one of AEW's most memorable 197 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,760 trios. Death triangle gave AEW three wrestlers with widely different personalities who somehow fit 198 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,600 together perfectly. Pock later became a two-time AEW World Trios Champion. Remember that 199 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720 that was Trio Swar, the vest of seven between them and the elite that was a lot of fun with the 200 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:17,200 NBA on NBC music playing every time they would promote it. He made history at Forbidden Door 2022, 201 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,560 Pock defeated Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors to become the inaugural AEW All-Annic Championship. 202 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,600 That championship was later renamed to today the AEW International Championship. In his later 203 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,080 years he eventually became part of the Death Riders, even after years on television he gets up into 204 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,040 virtually any match and immediately feel credible against anyone. His final match, the Dr. Trey 205 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520 talked about the beginning there, came at AEW all out this past Saturday September 26th, 206 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,960 where he challenged on Dr. A. L. Edelow for the AEW National Championship. 207 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,160 It's very difficult to process that one of the last images wrestling fans have of him is still 208 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:56,960 doing what he had done for more than two decades, performing at the highest level in a championship match. 209 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:04,240 What stood out for Pock, AEW never needed to explain why Pock was dangerous. Fans believed at the moment 210 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:12,080 he walked through the curtain. Dr. Trey, what Pock match rivalry or death triangle moment will 211 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,280 you go back and watch first as you kind of go back and remember Pock and all the wrestling? 212 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:24,000 Actually, one of the first matches I went back and watched was from all out 2024 that match with 213 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000 the Will Ospreay. That was a fantastic match. It got overshadowed because that was Swarven Hangman 214 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,160 were on that show, a couple of bigger matches, but that match, kind of to me, was the launch of Will 215 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,360 Ospreay to where he's at now. You and I have thrown out the phrase like the best soldier in a company. 216 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,960 Bench and Chris Jericho in the past, Ray and Jordan, levels that guy for AEW. When you're trying to 217 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,040 get somebody over, you put them in the ring of the level. They're going to have a great match. People 218 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:06,560 inherently wanted to boo, level, AKA Pock, sorry, but it launched a lot of guys, but that match 219 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,480 with Ospreay last year was fantastic. I think I actually read that that was the only 220 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,280 Meltzer-Given 5-star match of Pock's career. Some people say it was because of Ospreay, but that 221 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:26,480 match, you go back and watch, it was just incredible. Was it the Iron Man match he had with Hangman? 222 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:36,000 Also back in like 2022, I think it was. It was really good. Man, his match with Orange Cassidy, 223 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,600 with that rivalry he had with Orange, was really underrated because it was just so two totally 224 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:49,120 different styles. I saw somebody refer to as the Bugs Bunny Wrestling Style of Orange Cassidy 225 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:57,440 versus the Tony soprano wrestling style of Pock, where it's just like comic versus like just 226 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:06,000 serious, going to just try to kill you. Even that match, I'm sure it'll get maybe some undo 227 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,160 love later on because it was last match, but even that match with Andrade Saturday night was 228 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,360 fantastic as well, but that was just a couple of the ones I gave him top of my head from his A.E.W. Run. 229 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,680 Did AW give us the best overall version of Pock in your mind? 230 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:28,480 I think they gave us the best character version of Pock we could get, like the presentation when 231 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,200 he first debuted, and then, you know, Justin Roberts the way he announced it, and everything 232 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:41,680 else. I think it gave it the best character presentation you could do. He is bastard. 233 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:50,800 Yeah, that was so good, you know. And I think it was Marina or somebody like Ermai Ben Asprey 234 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:57,360 said he's our bastard. Like I love that. Getting a little choked up thinking about that. 235 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:07,360 You and I had talked about like I was waiting for the Pock Claudio to kick Moxley out the death 236 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:13,520 writers angle, which I'm sure was going to come around at some point. I got really excited a few 237 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:19,840 months ago when they did Pock in Claudio versus Cajun Cope because I was like, man, I'd love to see Claudio 238 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:26,960 in Pock just be a full-time tag team because their styles would have blended together so well. 239 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:34,320 We got instances of it, but you know, it was always kind of like Pock and Udo or Claudio and Garcia. 240 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:42,080 It was never just Pock and Claudio. So I still think there was a lot to do with the Pock character, 241 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:48,480 but presentation-wise, I think AIDA, if you had a home run with that character and how they presented it, 242 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,440 and how he showcased what he really wanted that character to become. 243 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,720 Let's talk a little bit about how the wrestling world has responded, Tony Khan said, 244 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,520 Benjamin Sattelay defined excellent praising his wrestling knowledge, athleticism, professionalism, 245 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,400 consistency, and dedication to the sport. We'll ask for a call from the greatest expert from our 246 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800 country and describe Pock as a hero. Tributes have come from wrestlers of promotion across the 247 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:18,560 industry and not just AIDW, WWE opened both Raw and NXT with Memorial Graphics honoring Neville/Pock. 248 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,480 Penta, Becky Lynch, and Bailey were among those who publicly honored him on Raw. 249 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840 The Rock also joined the many people throughout wrestling and paying tribute. 250 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:33,680 AIDW has the addition of Dynamite dedicated to him this evening. We are recording this before 251 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,480 that show airs. So if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's why it may sound a little bit 252 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:44,080 different with that show not already taking place. As Dr. Trenor recorded this, Will Osprey versus 253 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,200 Reckashe 2 wrestlers whose careers are deeply connected to Pock was announced specifically as a match 254 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:57,920 in his honor. This is the legacy of Benjamin Sattelay that will be showcased. He wrestled for more than 255 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,520 two decades, helped to find an air of NXT. He became one of WWE's most memorable cruiser weights. 256 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:09,040 He became an important part of AIDW from its earliest years. He influenced a generation of wrestlers 257 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,080 who saw that size that not limit him how believable, physical, or spectacular a wrestler could be. 258 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,800 And perhaps the most telling part of the reaction to his passing is how many people have talked 259 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:27,040 about Ben, the person, not just Pock, the wrestler. Dr. Trenor's, we look at final reflections here. 260 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,600 What made Pock special to you as a wrestling fan? 261 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:42,720 As a babyface, he was defined by the plucky underdog super hero abilities that kids look up to. 262 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:49,920 You talk about defining a generation 20 years. I mean, you go back his debut in 2012. I mean, that's 14 263 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,120 years ago. There are kids now who are breaking into wrestling at 20 years old who saw him when they were 264 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,840 six. That's one of those influences. That's one of those guys they could look and go, hey, I'm 265 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,360 under six foot tall. I'm under 200 pounds. But I could do this. I could be like this person. 266 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,840 Ray Mysterio defined those guys for the generation that you and I grew up in. Neville's one of those guys 267 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:22,560 that can define it for this generation. As a heel to be that small, but to be just like 268 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:31,440 just an utter pit bull of tenacity. Like you just you knew if if Pock was in that match, 269 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,920 it was going to be hard hitting. It was going to be physical. It was going to feel uncomfortable 270 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:43,440 at times. And for guys like us that still love old school wrestling where it felt like you were 271 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,840 about to watch a fight. If Pock was in the ring, you felt like it was going to be a fight. 272 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,480 You know, older guys like us, we bitch and complain about we don't like the flippy wrestling. We 273 00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:00,240 don't like all the high flying stuff. I never had that issue with Pock. I could watch a Pock 274 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,240 match any day of the week. And even though there's going to be some crazy high flying spots, 275 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:11,120 it made sense for what he was doing as a character. So I think the biggest legacy for him is just going 276 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,760 to be kind of helping redefine this current generation of wrestling we're watching and setting the 277 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,800 bar really, really high. So that when people don't measure up guys like you and me get to call them out 278 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:32,400 on it. Yeah, he is he's a special special wrestler. Again, defined a generation. There's 279 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,640 there's there's many of them that are out there, but I don't know if we ever have a ricochet if 280 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,320 there's no Pock. I don't know if we ever have a Will Osprey if there's no Pock. I don't know if we 281 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:50,480 have the athleticism, the move set that he brought to the forefront and defined that is now what I 282 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,320 would refer to as almost normal nowadays. Well, about 20 plus years ago, it wasn't normal. It wasn't 283 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:04,560 normal to do a corkscrew shooting star press. It wasn't normal to do flips and be a tight technical 284 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:11,920 wrestler given his size when you were that size that like Pock and Benjamin Sattelay was. It was 285 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,040 you were defined strictly as a high flyer and not someone that could be this snap mirror takedown, 286 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,040 snap suplex, vicious pit bull as you said or bulldog in that ring with a defined 287 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,720 character that was believable. Given his size, he's probably in height around the same height as 288 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:38,240 Dr. Trainai, maybe smaller, but I would be scared, shitless if I was in a dark alley with Pock. 289 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,160 What's really cool to hear about is that character that we saw on TV, that bastard, that king of the 290 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,360 cruiser weights, that man that gravity forgot was not the same person that was off the screen. 291 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:56,720 That person off the screen was someone who is beloved, someone that is appreciated and someone who will 292 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,880 be deeply missed. He will be deeply missed by all of his co-workers, the people that worked with 293 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:10,560 him, the people that knew him, and he will be deeply missed by his fans. There's really no easy way to 294 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,720 close out these episodes, Dr. Trainai. I'm going to withhold from doing our plugs and spots this week 295 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:23,200 because I don't find that to be very appropriate right now. Before we do close up, this week's edition 296 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,720 the show, any final thoughts in regards to our member and seer of Benjamin Pock, sadly. 297 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,160 The people that you mentioned, the ricochet is the boss phrase, take a guy like Javan Evans. 298 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Javan Evans is 20 years old, 21. That's the people we're talking about. That's the generation of wrestling 299 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,360 that is defined and influenced by Pock. Our people like Javan Evans, who, six years old, 300 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:56,800 is when Neville joined WWE. That's about the time he said he became a wrestling fan. 301 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:04,240 So seeing guys do the stuff that Neville/Pock could do in a ring is what influenced guys like Javan 302 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,240 Evans. And Neville would say he was influenced by guys like the Dynamite Kid. 303 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Those are the ones that last forever. You and I have told stories to friends and younger people about 304 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,240 like, "Oh my God, you think that's high-tech, right? Go back and watch tapes of the British Bulldogs." 305 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,120 That's going to be the Javan Evans Deville Ospreys. You think, "I'm good, man. You need to go 306 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:35,200 back and watch tapes of Pock when he was in Dragon Gator, PWG, or check out this." Those things like that 307 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,640 define wrestling, but the person he was, you see the outpouring of love from everybody around. 308 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:49,440 There's nobody being quiet about this. Everybody's saying how much they love him. If the rock comes out 309 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,160 and says, "Give flowers to a guy like Pock," you know. And rock never crossed paths with him from as far as 310 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:04,800 I know. But that's the kind of person that Benjamin Saturday was. So his wrestling legacy is well 311 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,760 defined, but as a person, the outpouring of love and support just shows what the measure of the man 312 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,120 really was. Dynamite's going to be a heavy show. Most people, you all are listening to this after you 313 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,400 probably seen that show. We have not seen it yet. We are recording it on Wednesday. This is where we 314 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:27,440 typically record the show for the time being. It's going to be a beautiful tribute. I wish we didn't 315 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,880 have to watch it by any means, but it's going to be emotional night for wrestling fans and wrestlers 316 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:40,160 around the world and the wrestling community in general. So there isn't really a perfect way to end 317 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,160 an episode like this. We will be back next week with our normal run and talk about everything going 318 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,360 on wrestling. But for now, it did not feel appropriate to talk about anything other than this when we 319 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,120 lose a member of our wrestling community and family. Someone that is so impactful and important to 320 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,720 all of us in Benjamin Park, sadly. So rather than to summarize our career that took Benjamin 321 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:08,880 sadly all over the world, we'll just say thank you. Thank you for the matches. Thank you for the 322 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,520 moments. Thank you for everything you gave professional wrestling. Rest in peace, Ben.