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The “Scream” Murder: Cassie Stoddart · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I
0:04
Speaker 1: will be your host today Emily Simpson with Shane Today
0:09
Speaker 1: on Legally Brunette. We are going to discuss and I
0:12
Speaker 1: have to say, this is a case that a lot
0:14
Speaker 1: of people were dming me about, and so I think
0:18
Speaker 1: I might have seen it, but it wasn't one of
0:20
Speaker 1: those ones that like stood out to me. But then
0:23
Speaker 1: after so many people were dming me saying have you
0:25
Speaker 1: watched the Scream Murder? That I decided to watch it
0:28
Speaker 1: and then I have to tell you, you guys were right.
0:30
Speaker 1: You hit the nail on the head because it was
0:32
Speaker 1: so interesting. It's on Hulu. It's called the Scream Murder
0:37
Speaker 1: and it's three parts. But I had a hard time. Normally,
0:40
Speaker 1: I will watch a part and then I have to
0:42
Speaker 1: like go to bed because I can't stay up late.
0:43
Speaker 1: But this was one of those I could not stop
0:45
Speaker 1: watching it. I had to watch all three parts. So
0:48
Speaker 1: let's go through it. Well, we're going to get into that,
0:52
Speaker 1: but I will just tell you a little background is
0:54
Speaker 1: because the two perpetrators of this crime were very obsessed
0:59
Speaker 1: with the movies Scream, well, they were obsessed with horror
1:01
Speaker 1: movies in general, horror, horror movies, not horror movies, not
1:05
Speaker 1: horror movies, horrorror movies in.
1:08
Speaker 2: General, horror, not horror or.
1:10
Speaker 1: I know what I was trying to I was trying
1:11
Speaker 1: to Announcie.
1:12
Speaker 2: Saying horror or prostitute. It's horror, horror, horror movies.
1:17
Speaker 1: They were into scary movies, and one of the movies
1:20
Speaker 1: they were especially intrigued by or or obsessed with, was
1:26
Speaker 1: the scream Murders with the Mask. So Cassie Joe Stoddard
1:30
Speaker 1: was a sixteen year old high school student who was
1:31
Speaker 1: brutally murdered on September twenty second of two thousand and six.
1:36
Speaker 1: This was while she was house sitting for relatives and Pocatello, Idaho.
1:40
Speaker 1: So we're back to Idaho. We go all over the map,
1:43
Speaker 1: and now we're back to Idaho. It was deemed the
1:46
Speaker 1: scream murder, and investigators later found that her attackers instilled
1:49
Speaker 1: fear before making their move, like switching off the power
1:52
Speaker 1: in the house and wearing creepy halloween masks over their faces.
1:56
Speaker 1: They had also planned the killing in advance and recorded
1:59
Speaker 1: videos to discussing it, reportedly drawing inspiration from the horror
2:05
Speaker 1: film Scream. The teens were arrested within days, convicted of
2:10
Speaker 1: first degree murder and were each sentenced to life in
2:13
Speaker 1: prison without the possibility of parole, which is now viewed
2:16
Speaker 1: as extremely controversial, which we will also get into because
2:19
Speaker 1: in the third part they actually talk about a Supreme
2:22
Speaker 1: Court decision that has to do with whether minors should
2:27
Speaker 1: be convicted of life without parole, So we'll talk about that.
2:33
Speaker 1: All right, Let's go through a little bit of this timeline.
2:37
Speaker 1: So in the weeks leading up to this murder again,
2:41
Speaker 1: this is two thousand and six, so you have two classmates,
2:44
Speaker 1: two classmates, these are your two main characters. You have
2:48
Speaker 1: Brian Draper and Tory Adamchick, both were sixteen years old,
2:53
Speaker 1: and they become increasingly fascinated with horror movies, especially Scream
2:57
Speaker 1: and violent crimes, begin filming themselves on a video camera,
3:02
Speaker 1: discussing their desire to commit a real life murder.
3:05
Speaker 2: And wait, hold on, what age are they now or
3:08
Speaker 2: what grade?
3:09
Speaker 1: They're sixteen?
3:10
Speaker 2: Okay, so they're in high school and they're into horror movies. Yeah,
3:13
Speaker 2: and then they have a video camera and they start
3:17
Speaker 2: fantasizing about their own horror movies. But maybe real life.
3:20
Speaker 1: Right, Like I think one of them, especially Toy, was
3:25
Speaker 1: into making movies, but they take it so far that
3:31
Speaker 1: they're actually not just obsessed.
3:33
Speaker 2: With We couldn't afford the special effects, right, so they
3:35
Speaker 2: they just had to create real right horror.
3:38
Speaker 1: So and Cassie Joe Stoddard was actually their friend that
3:43
Speaker 1: they hung out with and so, and it's really they
3:48
Speaker 1: have they show in this. I think what makes this
3:50
Speaker 1: documentary so intriguing to me is that they show the
3:55
Speaker 1: videos that these two kids made, and some of them
3:58
Speaker 1: are just it looks like they're sitting in the library
4:00
Speaker 1: at school.
4:01
Speaker 2: Oh I did see that. Yeah, it's almost at a table.
4:03
Speaker 2: It's almost like someone just set the camera on a table. Yeah,
4:06
Speaker 2: not even pointed properly at them, like they were kind
4:08
Speaker 2: of cut off a little bit, Like this is them
4:10
Speaker 2: at a table. It was really close and they were
4:12
Speaker 2: just talking to each other and kind of in the
4:14
Speaker 2: camera and kind of to each other, right, right.
4:16
Speaker 1: But they were talking about like their obsession with death
4:19
Speaker 1: and killing people.
4:20
Speaker 2: Do you find that they were trying to record themselves
4:23
Speaker 2: to share like as notes for what they want to
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Speaker 2: do or I think they did. They know that they
4:29
Speaker 2: would be prosecuted one day and then this could be
4:31
Speaker 2: used against them.
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Speaker 1: Clearly, they did not think that far in advance or
4:35
Speaker 1: have that type of sophisticated thinking. I think they thought
4:38
Speaker 1: that they were just really cool and they were going
4:40
Speaker 1: to be like, you know, these cool guys that commit
4:45
Speaker 1: murder and record it and talk about death and all right. Yeah,
4:52
Speaker 1: So the pair began filming themselves on a video camera
4:54
Speaker 1: discussing their desire to commit a real life murder. They
4:56
Speaker 1: talk about wanting to gain notoriety and even mention surpass
5:00
Speaker 1: saying the infamy of the perpetrators of the Columbine High
5:03
Speaker 1: School massacre. That's the other thing. I know. They were
5:05
Speaker 1: very obsessed with Columbine, and they watched videos of Columbine
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Speaker 1: a lot, and.
5:10
Speaker 2: As something that was because six the Columbine happened in
5:14
Speaker 2: ninety nine or two thousand somewhere around. It was either
5:17
Speaker 2: nine nine or two thousand. So I wonder why what
5:21
Speaker 2: captured them or captivated them with that school shooting and
5:26
Speaker 2: they're all horrific.
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Speaker 1: So well, Columbine's the I guess the biggest, most famous,
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Speaker 1: most recognized, the one that's.
5:35
Speaker 2: Actually there's you know what, the Columbine. There's I think
5:37
Speaker 2: there's because there are school cameras. There's probably a little
5:39
Speaker 2: bit more footage and images available on that shooting too
5:45
Speaker 2: than there would be when you hear about a mass shooting,
5:47
Speaker 2: then there's nothing released because maybe it happened so quick.
5:49
Speaker 1: And yeah, I do believe they watched. They like to
5:52
Speaker 1: watch YouTube videos of like the actual.
5:54
Speaker 2: Then they must have. Yeah, and then those guys they dressed,
5:57
Speaker 2: it was two of them, just like these two and
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Speaker 2: the rest in trench coas they had a little bit
6:01
Speaker 2: more of an image, So maybe they were kind of
6:04
Speaker 2: following that, emulating that. Yeah, did I tell you?
6:06
Speaker 1: So?
6:06
Speaker 2: When I went to Chapman University, I took a video
6:10
Speaker 2: editing class and this one guy in there. He wouldn't
6:14
Speaker 2: suspect him. He like disappeared. He was like he was
6:18
Speaker 2: supposed to be in like our team, we're supposed to
6:19
Speaker 2: make a video or he like disappeared for a week
6:22
Speaker 2: and we kept calling him and he's like I can't
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Speaker 2: talk right now, and he'd like hang up, Like what's
6:26
Speaker 2: going on? What? He was a Columbine graduate and apparently
6:30
Speaker 2: he had helped make some videos with these kids.
6:33
Speaker 1: Wait, you have never told me.
6:35
Speaker 2: There's lots of things I haven't told you. It's not
6:37
Speaker 2: like one night when we're going out to romantic dinner,
6:40
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you about this kid so and
6:43
Speaker 2: so he was all paranoid and then he was Then
6:44
Speaker 2: he finally came back to school and we're asking what's
6:47
Speaker 2: going on. He was telling us how he had all
6:49
Speaker 2: these lawyers and all these things going on. He was
6:51
Speaker 2: panicky because he helped. He was not violent in any way,
6:55
Speaker 2: but he was helping make videos. I guess with these kids.
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Speaker 1: Prior to the whole wait, the kids that he went
7:01
Speaker 1: to school with him, So he was.
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Speaker 2: From Colorado and he was a freshman.
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Speaker 1: What kind of videos?
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Speaker 2: I don't know. His lawyers forbid from speaking to us.
7:09
Speaker 1: Well, it couldn't.
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Speaker 2: It was not like they were making like happy No.
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Speaker 2: I think I think they were making like fantasizing about
7:17
Speaker 2: like gun shooting and this and that. And he I
7:20
Speaker 2: think he was more behind the camera guy, like he
7:22
Speaker 2: was helping them. He wasn't like their friend and joining them.
7:26
Speaker 2: It was more because he was so into movies and
7:28
Speaker 2: so into editing and video and I always wondered what
7:30
Speaker 2: happened to him.
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Speaker 1: But so you're saying he was supposed to be in
7:32
Speaker 1: a group project with you. And then he disappeared, right,
7:36
Speaker 1: this is after the Columbine shooting.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it happened. No, it happened that week. So
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Speaker 2: he got he disappeared, and then he came back and
7:45
Speaker 2: told you. Then like a week later, we finally got
7:47
Speaker 2: ahold of him, and he was saying that he was
7:50
Speaker 2: like he was frantic, and he had lawyers all the place.
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Speaker 2: He said he didn't know what to do, and he
7:55
Speaker 2: was like on the phone all the time. And that's
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Speaker 2: the end of my That's very interesting, all right.
8:03
Speaker 1: Back to the screen murder.
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Speaker 2: Okay, it wasn't very interesting, which is and then you
8:07
Speaker 2: wonder why I didn't tell you.
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Speaker 1: No, it was interesting. I do find it interesting. That
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Speaker 1: wasn't sarcasm. I do find it. That was interesting. Story
8:14
Speaker 1: all right. So the teens were back to Brian and
8:18
Speaker 1: Tory also created a death list of potential victims, which
8:22
Speaker 1: included classmates. This actually they found this after she was murdered,
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Speaker 1: because they didn't know if it was I don't know
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Speaker 1: if she was on the list or not. But after
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Speaker 1: she was murdered and they suspected these two, they end
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Speaker 1: up finding videos and evidence against them and not.
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Speaker 2: Only they had.
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Speaker 1: They had like a whole list of classmates that they
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Speaker 1: were that were like a hit list. So I don't
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Speaker 1: think it wasn't going to end with just her a legend, right,
8:51
Speaker 1: A friend purchases four knives from a pawnshop for them
8:54
Speaker 1: using money the boys provided, So that's how they got
8:57
Speaker 1: the murder weapons. Then now we get to September twenty
9:00
Speaker 1: again of two thousand and six. This is the night
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Speaker 1: of the murder, So Cassie was actually this is a
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Speaker 1: house you can in the documentary. It's like on a
9:08
Speaker 1: it's like on a lane called like Whispering Lane, so
9:10
Speaker 1: they call it like the Whispering Lane House. And it's
9:13
Speaker 1: kind of secluded. There's not like a lot of homes
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Speaker 1: around it. It's kind of set off like kind of
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Speaker 1: off off of the main not on a main road.
9:21
Speaker 2: You know how you would picture a house to be there. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a scream murder kind of house. It's
9:26
Speaker 1: like secluded and there's not like not a lot of
9:29
Speaker 1: things around it. And I guess she was a house
9:32
Speaker 1: sitting for a family member, like a cousin or something.
9:34
Speaker 2: I believe. Oh, so she's not in her house, she's
9:36
Speaker 2: in a No.
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Speaker 1: She's not at her own house. She's at this house.
9:39
Speaker 1: And then the boys knew that she was there because
9:41
Speaker 1: they were friends at school, and I believe there there
9:44
Speaker 1: was some conversation at some point about how she was
9:47
Speaker 1: house sitting at this house, and so I guess they
9:50
Speaker 1: had made plans for the two of them to come over,
9:53
Speaker 1: and she wanted to show them the house and they
9:55
Speaker 1: were so anyway, we're going to get into that. So
9:57
Speaker 1: at six pm, this is the night.
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Speaker 2: Of the murder, is she like staying the night there?
10:01
Speaker 1: Then? Yeah, she's like staying I think for a weekend.
10:04
Speaker 2: Would you, like, like your sixteen year old kid. I'm not
10:06
Speaker 2: blaming their parents, but would you let your sixteen year
10:08
Speaker 2: old kids stay at someone's house for a weekend? A
10:09
Speaker 2: house sit? I mean, what are you gonna do call
10:11
Speaker 2: the cops when a burglar comes in?
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Speaker 1: Or I don't know. I didn't really understand that either,
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Speaker 1: But they didn't elaborate on it, and I thought, well,
10:17
Speaker 1: maybe there were pets or something.
10:18
Speaker 2: Well I guess I'm guessing they elaborate because it wasn't significant.
10:21
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, she was at that house, right, I think it
10:24
Speaker 1: was like a cousin's house or her aunt's house or something.
10:27
Speaker 1: So Cassie is sixteen and she's house sitting for oh,
10:29
Speaker 1: it's for her aunt and uncle at their home in
10:31
Speaker 1: Pocatello while they are out of town. She has a
10:33
Speaker 1: boyfriend named Matt, and he arrives to spend the evening
10:37
Speaker 1: with her. I believe he wanted to spend the night,
10:39
Speaker 1: but like his mom wouldn't let him spend the night
10:40
Speaker 1: or something. Why anyway, Then Brian Draper and Tory Adam Chick,
10:45
Speaker 1: who are the friends of Cassie and Matt the boyfriend,
10:48
Speaker 1: arrive at the house to hang out with them. So
10:50
Speaker 1: there's the four of them there. So there's the two guys,
10:52
Speaker 1: there's her boyfriend, and there's Cassie. Cassie gives them a
10:56
Speaker 1: tour of the house, including the basement where they play
10:57
Speaker 1: around with a workout machine. So it's like, there's a
11:00
Speaker 1: basement to this house. I think there's like a barbell
11:03
Speaker 1: set or something down there. They play around on that.
11:06
Speaker 1: Then the fourteens watched the film Kill Bill Volume two
11:10
Speaker 1: in the living room. Then around nine thirty to ten PM,
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Speaker 1: Draper and Adam Chick claim that they are leaving to
11:17
Speaker 1: go see a movie at a local theater. Before leaving,
11:20
Speaker 1: Draper secretly that's what he does. He secretly unlocks the
11:23
Speaker 1: basement door so that they can re enter later without
11:26
Speaker 1: being noticed. So while they're in the house, they get
11:29
Speaker 1: a layout of the house, right because she gives ann tour,
11:31
Speaker 1: and then he secretly unlocks the basement door so that
11:34
Speaker 1: they can come back later. Then around nine to fifty pm,
11:39
Speaker 1: while away from the house, Draper records a chilling video.
11:43
Speaker 1: So this is this video just it's unreal to me.
11:46
Speaker 1: They go, they're her friend, right, they recorded her earlier
11:48
Speaker 1: in the day at school. It actually shows a video
11:50
Speaker 1: of them recording her, like getting like in the hallway,
11:54
Speaker 1: getting into her school locker and they're like, hey, Cassie,
11:56
Speaker 1: and they're like joking around with her and stuff. And
12:00
Speaker 1: then after they leave the house where she's house sitting,
12:02
Speaker 1: they record a video. Investigators later find that he had
12:06
Speaker 1: been recording footage for a couple of days, taking videos
12:09
Speaker 1: of Cassie at school and showing that he and Adam
12:12
Speaker 1: Chick writing out their plans and describing what they were
12:14
Speaker 1: going to do. One of the most well well known
12:18
Speaker 1: lines is this is from what they were recording of
12:21
Speaker 1: themselves the time is nine fifty. It's September twenty second,
12:25
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. Unfortunately, we have the grueling task
12:28
Speaker 1: of killing our two friends, and they are right in
12:30
Speaker 1: that house down the street. So they say this on video.
12:35
Speaker 2: And I have two friends being the boyfriend right.
12:37
Speaker 1: Because the boyfriend was there too at that time. After
12:40
Speaker 1: leaving the house, they filmed themselves again and Draper said,
12:43
Speaker 1: we just killed Cassie Soddard. This is Draper. Brian.
12:47
Speaker 2: Draper say, unfortunately too, like they're.
12:50
Speaker 1: Yes, well that's that is I get right. Unfortunately, we
12:53
Speaker 1: have the task, the grueling task of killing our two friends.
12:57
Speaker 2: Then that means they were willing to kill him if
12:59
Speaker 2: he was there. I'm guessing he wasn't there.
13:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, he ended up leaving because he I think I
13:04
Speaker 1: believe what happened was he called his mom. They actually
13:07
Speaker 1: messed with the lights to scare Cassie. So they cut
13:09
Speaker 1: the lights like the outside line.
13:12
Speaker 2: In typical horror fashion, yes, to get.
13:14
Speaker 1: The lights to go out in the house. And this
13:15
Speaker 1: is while her boyfriend was there. So then both of
13:18
Speaker 1: them were scared and they wouldn't I think they wanted
13:20
Speaker 1: them to go down and check the lights. That was
13:23
Speaker 1: the purpose of cutting the lights, but they were scared
13:25
Speaker 1: and they didn't do that. They also threw a bottle
13:29
Speaker 1: down at those basement steps, remember where he left the
13:31
Speaker 1: door open. They threw a bottle or something down there
13:34
Speaker 1: to get a reaction so that they would come down
13:36
Speaker 1: and see what it was. But they didn't go down
13:38
Speaker 1: there either. And then I believe Matt the boyfriend calls
13:41
Speaker 1: his mom and says, hey, Cassie's house sitting and she's
13:45
Speaker 1: scared and the lights went off. Can I stay the night?
13:47
Speaker 1: And she says, no, you can't stay the night, but
13:49
Speaker 1: if you want to leave, and she wants to come
13:51
Speaker 1: with you, she can come and stay at our house.
13:54
Speaker 1: And then Cassie declines because she says, no, I told
13:59
Speaker 1: my aunt and uncud i's gonna watch their house. I'm
14:01
Speaker 1: gonna stay here. So then the boyfriend gets picked up
14:05
Speaker 1: by his mom and he leaves. And I always wonder,
14:09
Speaker 1: like what his thought process is. Yeah, they don't go
14:13
Speaker 1: into that, but I always wonder that. But anyway, so
14:15
Speaker 1: I believe his mom comes and picks them up, he leaves.
14:18
Speaker 1: Now she's at this home alone.
14:20
Speaker 2: I don't know.
14:20
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess these kids are young. He's only sixteen,
14:23
Speaker 1: but I feel badly that they're scared. The lights have
14:26
Speaker 1: gone out, there's a crash down in the basement, and
14:29
Speaker 1: then he's like.
14:30
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just gonnaorrow.
14:32
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home now, see you later. So anyway,
14:34
Speaker 1: at this point, she's now left alone in the house.
14:36
Speaker 2: Okay, so then.
14:40
Speaker 1: I believe they know that he left. But they end
14:43
Speaker 1: up going into the house and I don't know what happens.
14:47
Speaker 1: They do not record inside the house, which I don't
14:49
Speaker 1: know why they didn't do that, because they're recording everything.
14:52
Speaker 1: I mean, they're recording her at school, they're recording them
14:54
Speaker 1: saying that they're gonna kill her, but then they don't
14:56
Speaker 1: end up recording the actual acts. So as far as
15:00
Speaker 1: who did what, they.
15:01
Speaker 2: Didn't want to incriminate themselves.
15:03
Speaker 1: Right, They were very careful about that. So anyway, the
15:05
Speaker 1: two of them enter the house with masks on and
15:08
Speaker 1: they stab herrea mask screen well some type of mass
15:11
Speaker 1: I think there was some kind of home made kind
15:13
Speaker 1: of masks. They end up stabbing her. I don't know
15:16
Speaker 1: who stabs what or who. I guess at this point
15:20
Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter. They both enter, they stab her.
15:22
Speaker 1: She was stabbed multiple times. They leave the house, they
15:25
Speaker 1: go back into the car and they make another video saying,
15:28
Speaker 1: and it's Brian Draper that says, we just killed Cassie
15:31
Speaker 1: Joe's stope. Yeah. So the two teens leave the house
15:35
Speaker 1: and record another video. This is when they get back
15:37
Speaker 1: in the car. Tory says, I'm shaking. Brian Draper says,
15:41
Speaker 1: I stabbed her in the throat. I saw her lifeless body.
15:44
Speaker 1: It just disappeared. Dude, I just killed Cassie. Oh that
15:49
Speaker 1: felt like it wasn't even real. I mean, it went
15:51
Speaker 1: by so fast. Tory says, shut the fuck up. We
15:54
Speaker 1: got to get our acts straight. Then they go to
15:57
Speaker 1: Blackrock Canyon. This is some does like desolute area where
16:03
Speaker 1: they attempt to burn the tape and bury the knives, clothing,
16:06
Speaker 1: and masks that were used in the crime.
16:09
Speaker 2: They wanted to get rid of the Yeah, so that was.
16:12
Speaker 1: Their way of like trying to get rid of the murder.
16:15
Speaker 2: Keep the video.
16:16
Speaker 1: So after well, they burned the video and they try
16:19
Speaker 1: and they bury it.
16:20
Speaker 2: Why did they make a video then?
16:24
Speaker 1: Why do they why do they do anything that they did?
16:31
Speaker 1: So some other things that they said on the video
16:34
Speaker 1: was We're going to make history and people will remember us.
16:37
Speaker 1: They also discussed a death list of classmates that they
16:40
Speaker 1: considered targeting. At this time. The two boys claim that
16:43
Speaker 1: they went to the movie theater to see this movie
16:46
Speaker 1: called Pulse. I don't remember this movie. I don't know
16:48
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of it? A movie called Pulse.
16:51
Speaker 2: The Pink Floyd album called Oh Well.
16:53
Speaker 1: Anyway, that's their alibi that they're creating, is that they
16:56
Speaker 1: go they go see.
16:57
Speaker 2: A movie during the crime, not after the crime.
17:01
Speaker 1: Well, I believe they might have even gone as far
17:04
Speaker 1: as buying movie tickets, which reminded me of Menindez when
17:07
Speaker 1: they were trying to create an alibi that they also
17:09
Speaker 1: went to the movies and bought movie tickets. Okay, So
17:20
Speaker 1: during this attack, Draper, this is Brian Draper is armed
17:23
Speaker 1: with a dagger style knife and Adam Chick is carrying
17:27
Speaker 1: a hunting knife. Draper slams a closet door to frighten
17:32
Speaker 1: Cassie right before the attack, and then Cassie has stabbed
17:34
Speaker 1: twenty eight times with many wounds considered fatal. So, and
17:40
Speaker 1: we already talked about what they said. After they leave
17:43
Speaker 1: the house, they record another video. That's where he talks
17:46
Speaker 1: about how he stabbed her in the throat and he
17:47
Speaker 1: saw her lifeless body. They go to Blackrock Canyon and
17:51
Speaker 1: this is where they attempt to burn the tape. I
17:53
Speaker 1: think they attempt to burn the tape, but clearly they
17:55
Speaker 1: didn't burn it.
17:56
Speaker 2: Right because he said attempt and you've seen the video. Yeah,
17:59
Speaker 2: So did they burn it and say forget it and
18:01
Speaker 2: brought it back with them or did authorities find it afterwards?
18:04
Speaker 1: The authorities found it afterwards, so they must have tried
18:06
Speaker 1: to burn it, but it must not have burned it
18:07
Speaker 1: badly enough to damage it, because you can is.
18:10
Speaker 2: It literally a tape cassette or is it like a
18:13
Speaker 2: digital camera?
18:15
Speaker 1: I don't know because this is two thousand and six,
18:16
Speaker 1: so what would it be?
18:18
Speaker 2: Could more likely digital, But nonetheless they failed in trying
18:22
Speaker 2: to destroy the evidence.
18:23
Speaker 1: Right. So then on September twenty fourth, this is when
18:27
Speaker 1: Cassie's aunt and uncle return home. They discover her body
18:29
Speaker 1: in the house and her aunt calls nine to one
18:31
Speaker 1: to one, and then police launch a homicide investigation. Obviously,
18:36
Speaker 1: because he's the boyfriend and the last person to have.
18:39
Speaker 2: Seen Cassie alive, that guy's a prime suspect.
18:42
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, can you imagine this guy's like, he's like, no,
18:44
Speaker 1: my mom told me to come home.
18:46
Speaker 2: He's like, I laughed, I swear.
18:48
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's got to be like the whole
18:50
Speaker 1: time I was watching it and I was thinking, man,
18:52
Speaker 1: you got you almost got murdered, and then you almost yeah,
18:57
Speaker 1: like that guy was murdered or murdered.
19:00
Speaker 2: Right.
19:00
Speaker 1: So Matt Beckham, who is the boyfriend, is initially considered
19:04
Speaker 1: a person eventually, right, he's the last person to see Cassie.
19:07
Speaker 1: He's at the house with her that night, and then
19:10
Speaker 1: he claims that his mom picked him up, so it
19:14
Speaker 1: shows him. They bring him in and they're questioning him.
19:17
Speaker 1: So the police bring him in, they show him. He
19:20
Speaker 1: doesn't have much emotion at all, and this is he
19:22
Speaker 1: just found out.
19:23
Speaker 2: Well, he might not know what the heck's going on,
19:25
Speaker 2: I know.
19:25
Speaker 1: And it's very interesting because I'm thinking he's sixteen, right,
19:29
Speaker 1: he just found out his girlfriend was murdered. She was
19:32
Speaker 1: stabbed at the house where he just was.
19:34
Speaker 2: I think it takes a while to sink in, especially
19:37
Speaker 2: if you're young. If he saw her, let's say he
19:40
Speaker 2: came to the scene and ran into it and saw
19:44
Speaker 2: I think he'd have any emotional reaction. Yeah, but when
19:46
Speaker 2: someone comes and tells you she's dead, you're like, wait, what,
19:50
Speaker 2: Like it takes a while to process. Yeah, to have
19:53
Speaker 2: that image in your head that she is gone, That's
19:56
Speaker 2: what I think.
19:57
Speaker 1: I also thought he's probably sitting there having every possible
20:00
Speaker 1: scenario running through his mind of like, like, do they
20:04
Speaker 1: think I did it? I left, I wasn't there. I
20:07
Speaker 1: could have been murdered. Was I supposed to be murdered?
20:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine like everything that's going through
20:11
Speaker 1: his mind anyway, So they questioned him. He says that
20:15
Speaker 1: he left, and then they asked him to take a polygraph.
20:18
Speaker 1: He takes a polygraph test, and he provides investigators with
20:21
Speaker 1: information about Draper and Adam Chick that were also visiting
20:26
Speaker 1: the house that night. Okay, so that's where their names
20:28
Speaker 1: come up. So he passes the polygraph, like passes well
20:31
Speaker 1: that and.
20:31
Speaker 2: He has a vowed story of these other two guys
20:32
Speaker 2: came in, they walked around, so now he picked me up.
20:36
Speaker 2: They talked to the mom, So it probably like, Okay,
20:37
Speaker 2: this guy is less likely an issue, and let's look
20:41
Speaker 2: into the other two.
20:42
Speaker 1: I believe he passed the polygraph like there was no
20:45
Speaker 1: like on the fence, like he passed. So then now
20:50
Speaker 1: the other two are persons of interest, right because he
20:53
Speaker 1: now names them that they were in the house that
20:55
Speaker 1: night too. So five days this is five days after
20:59
Speaker 1: the murder. Now we're two September twenty seventh of two
21:01
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Police interrogate Draper and Adam Chick. They
21:04
Speaker 1: bring them in, so they're questioning.
21:08
Speaker 2: Them, and then five days.
21:10
Speaker 1: Later, yes, so I guess they went to their homes first,
21:13
Speaker 1: interviewed them at home, probably got some basic information, probably
21:16
Speaker 1: just a feel for them, and then they brought them in.
21:20
Speaker 1: And I believe their parents were with them when they
21:23
Speaker 1: brought them in to interview.
21:25
Speaker 2: Them, and there's footage of that.
21:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's footage of that. So they bring them in,
21:29
Speaker 1: they start questioning them. Then what they do They ask
21:34
Speaker 1: Brian Draper to take a polygraph. So when they ask
21:38
Speaker 1: Brian Draper to take a polygraph, they pull him out
21:41
Speaker 1: to take a polygraph, and then I believe that the
21:44
Speaker 1: investigator or the lead detective or whoever's on the case
21:46
Speaker 1: gets a phone call that says he wants to talk
21:49
Speaker 1: to them. So instead of sitting down and taking the polygraph,
21:52
Speaker 1: I think he just he freaked out right, and he's like,
21:56
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm gonna fail. I'm just gonna unload
22:01
Speaker 1: and tell them Wow. So they go back and so
22:05
Speaker 1: Brian Draper eventually confesses that he witnessed Cassie's murder. He
22:09
Speaker 1: claims that he was.
22:11
Speaker 2: There, but he didn't do it.
22:13
Speaker 1: But he didn't do it, and he claims that it
22:15
Speaker 1: was the other.
22:16
Speaker 2: Video that they made after the murder. Didn't Draper say
22:20
Speaker 2: that he did it.
22:21
Speaker 1: He said, I stabbed her in the throat. I killed
22:22
Speaker 1: her out. Yeah, But in his you know, in his
22:27
Speaker 1: confession to the police, he says that he was there,
22:31
Speaker 1: but he didn't actually stab her. It was Tory was
22:33
Speaker 1: the one that stabbed her. Then he tells them about
22:36
Speaker 1: all the hidden evidence back at black Rock Canyon where
22:39
Speaker 1: they tried to burn the tape. It's a VHS tape
22:41
Speaker 1: actually they try to burn it, and they tried to
22:43
Speaker 1: burn the clothes that they had on and bury them.
22:47
Speaker 1: So they lead the police. So the officers recover weapons, clothing,
22:51
Speaker 1: and a partially burn VHS tape documenting their plans. It's
22:56
Speaker 1: obvious that Brian thought the VH tape was destroyed as
22:59
Speaker 1: his original confession doesn't line up with what he says
23:02
Speaker 1: on the tape. I'm sure he's assuming that they burned it.
23:06
Speaker 2: Enough, right that it was not retrievable.
23:09
Speaker 1: Right, they wouldn't be able to see what's on it,
23:11
Speaker 1: but they were able to see it.
23:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:14
Speaker 1: So then on September twenty seventh, the two thousand and six,
23:17
Speaker 1: Draper and Adam Chick are both arrested in charge of
23:19
Speaker 1: first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. You know,
23:23
Speaker 1: the other thing that's interesting was so Brian Draper. The
23:27
Speaker 1: whole time I was watching this, his parents are in
23:30
Speaker 1: the documentary, his mom and his dad, and I'm thinking
23:36
Speaker 1: that he must be innocent somehow because his mom and
23:39
Speaker 1: dad are both like in this documentary doing interviews in
23:42
Speaker 1: his mom's and they're a LDS family. It shows like
23:46
Speaker 1: the Mormon church. It shows, you know, you know, this
23:50
Speaker 1: background of like religion and like this small town. And
23:54
Speaker 1: Brian was adopted, I believe through the church. He wasn't
23:59
Speaker 1: there iological child, but they adopted him when he was
24:02
Speaker 1: a baby. Because the whole time, I kept thinking, he
24:04
Speaker 1: doesn't look anything like his mom or his dad. But
24:06
Speaker 1: then they later talk about how he was adopted. But anyways,
24:11
Speaker 1: so the dad. If you look at the interrogation videos
24:16
Speaker 1: of the dad when he's sitting next to Brian and
24:18
Speaker 1: Brian's being interrogated by the police, this is back in
24:22
Speaker 1: six he's like, like a really healthy looking, hefty guy.
24:27
Speaker 1: He's got kind of like a full head of red hair,
24:30
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, kind of I don't I
24:33
Speaker 1: was gonna say full figured, but what do you say
24:35
Speaker 1: for a man. He's just like kind of you know,
24:38
Speaker 1: stocky and right. Anyway, then when you watch him in
24:43
Speaker 1: the documentary like present day, like talking about twenty years later,
24:48
Speaker 1: he I don't know if he I'm speculating, but it
24:51
Speaker 1: looks as if maybe he had a stroke or something.
24:53
Speaker 1: He has trouble.
24:54
Speaker 2: Talking life for twenty years.
24:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like you can tell. You can see that
24:59
Speaker 1: the twenty years of his son being in prison and
25:02
Speaker 1: being convicted of being a murderer, and also the devastation
25:06
Speaker 1: of the other family and just everything that he's dealing
25:08
Speaker 1: with as a father just completely devastated this man like
25:12
Speaker 1: he is. You can see it physically.
25:15
Speaker 2: It took a toll on him. Yeah, absolutely, and he's
25:17
Speaker 2: not full figured anymore.
25:19
Speaker 1: No, it was very thin, yeah, and just and his
25:23
Speaker 1: voice was different, which made me think that maybe he
25:26
Speaker 1: had had a stroke. I don't know.
25:27
Speaker 2: Well, either way, it took a toll on him, and
25:28
Speaker 2: if he did have a stroke, maybe it was related
25:30
Speaker 2: right with the stress and everything.
25:32
Speaker 1: Right, And then they also interview Tory's mother. I don't know.
25:37
Speaker 1: She just seemed delusional to me. It was just very
25:40
Speaker 1: much like what a sweet boy is and what a
25:42
Speaker 1: nice boy is, and how he was always such a
25:44
Speaker 1: great boy and he's always such a sweet boy.
25:45
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that murder that doesn't really describe.
25:49
Speaker 2: I don't know, son.
25:51
Speaker 1: I just I had a hard time of her. But
25:53
Speaker 1: I think I thought maybe she should have just declined
25:55
Speaker 1: the interview and just not done that. But all right,
26:00
Speaker 1: So anyway, back in September, so now we're just September
26:02
Speaker 1: twenty seventh, Draper and Adam Chick are both arrested in
26:04
Speaker 1: charge with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
26:08
Speaker 1: They go to trial in two thousand and seven and
26:10
Speaker 1: they're tried separately. Prosecutors lay out the evidence, including the
26:14
Speaker 1: VHS tape, Cassie's bloody clothing, the murder weapons, mass et cetera,
26:20
Speaker 1: and both are convicted and sentenced to life in prison
26:22
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. It shows them. So here
26:26
Speaker 1: we are in twenty twenty.
26:27
Speaker 2: So there's as of sixteen, they've been arrested, right, yeah, sixteen,
26:31
Speaker 2: and were they in they were arrested, they were in
26:34
Speaker 2: prison in custody during the trial. Right since then and
26:40
Speaker 2: up until today, Yes, they've never been let out.
26:42
Speaker 1: No, so they have been in prison.
26:44
Speaker 2: And they were sixteen for life without parole.
26:48
Speaker 1: Right, But I do believe so they also talk about
26:50
Speaker 1: this in the third part. So there was a Supreme
26:52
Speaker 1: Court decision that happened during the timeframe that they were
26:57
Speaker 1: in prison.
26:57
Speaker 2: For life after conviction.
27:00
Speaker 1: They were convicted, and I believe the Supreme Court had
27:05
Speaker 1: a decision that said that putting miners in prison for
27:09
Speaker 1: life without parole would be cruel and unusual punishment, right.
27:14
Speaker 2: Unlike the murder that's not cruel in anything, right, punishment.
27:17
Speaker 1: So, the United States is the only nation that allows
27:20
Speaker 1: people who committed crimes as miners to be sentenced to
27:22
Speaker 1: life in prison without the possibility of parole, a punishment
27:26
Speaker 1: widely criticized under international law. Critics argue that condemning children
27:32
Speaker 1: to spend the rest of their lives behind bars ignores
27:34
Speaker 1: research showing that young people differ from adults in development, judgment,
27:39
Speaker 1: and susceptibility to peer influence. Despite this, thousands of individuals
27:45
Speaker 1: in the US have received life without parole sentences for
27:48
Speaker 1: crimes committed as youth, and these penalties disproportionately affect black
27:54
Speaker 1: and brown teenagers. So over the past two decades, the
27:57
Speaker 1: US Supreme Court has limited some of the harsh sentences
28:00
Speaker 1: for minors under the Eighth Amendments ban on Cruel and
28:03
Speaker 1: unusual punishment. The most recent court case is this twenty
28:08
Speaker 1: twenty one Supreme Court decision that reaffirmed that age must
28:11
Speaker 1: be considered in sentencing, but allowed states flexibility and how
28:15
Speaker 1: they evaluate youth related factors. So the way I understood
28:20
Speaker 1: it was, they say it's cruel and unusual punishment. They
28:26
Speaker 1: also didn't I believe in some of the earlier decisions
28:29
Speaker 1: they didn't say whether it was retroactive or not, so
28:31
Speaker 1: then they had to the latest decision. I believe they
28:34
Speaker 1: did say it's retroactive, so you can go back and
28:37
Speaker 1: reassess and re sentence, right, but it's.
28:40
Speaker 2: Not automatic taking away the sentencing or lessening sensing they're
28:44
Speaker 2: saying that they now kind of they can research and
28:48
Speaker 2: look into it and then make a decision, right, And
28:50
Speaker 2: I disagree with that. I don't. I mean, that's pretty
28:54
Speaker 2: horrific stuff. And then it's like, oh, they were just kids,
28:57
Speaker 2: they're still growing.
29:00
Speaker 1: It's called permanent incorrigibility, which is a very long word
29:04
Speaker 1: or a big word too. It refers to the legal,
29:07
Speaker 1: yet highly debated concept that a juvenile offender is so
29:10
Speaker 1: deeply ingrained in criminal behavior that they are incapable of reform.
29:15
Speaker 1: They were saying that was the standard of whether they
29:17
Speaker 1: deserve life without parole. It has to be shown that
29:20
Speaker 1: they had permanent incorrigibility, meaning that no matter what rehabilitation.
29:25
Speaker 2: He's going to commit the crime again. So just keep
29:28
Speaker 2: him in jail, but if he can be reformed, let
29:31
Speaker 2: him out.
29:32
Speaker 1: Right. So, so that was the standard, and they let
29:34
Speaker 1: the states decide whether there's a showing a permanent.
29:39
Speaker 2: If they were a little bit younger, they'd probably move
29:42
Speaker 2: more likely to get out. Oh yeah, because they definitely have.
29:45
Speaker 1: They were eighteen and twenty one or nineteen and twenty.
29:48
Speaker 2: From all that I remember you've described, And I'm not
29:51
Speaker 2: getting into whether they should over or shouldn't over or whatever.
29:54
Speaker 2: But all that they did in prison, knowing that they
29:57
Speaker 2: were never going to get out, they certainly made some changes.
30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, so I wanted to know. So
30:03
Speaker 1: you think that even though someone is a minor, that they.
30:07
Speaker 2: Should a crime like that like that, or they document
30:11
Speaker 2: it and they have fun with it, and they scare
30:13
Speaker 2: her and they they want her to die a horrific death.
30:18
Speaker 1: You're saying without parole.
30:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. I don't want to I don't think
30:23
Speaker 2: they should be out. I don't think they should be
30:25
Speaker 2: out somewhere smiling and having fun and having a nice meal.
30:28
Speaker 1: Well here's the other thing too, And this is what
30:30
Speaker 1: the judge said, and this is why they were sentenced
30:32
Speaker 1: to life without parole is because he said also on
30:36
Speaker 1: these videos they they and this evidence that they found,
30:39
Speaker 1: they also found a list of other students at their
30:42
Speaker 1: high school that were like a hit list, a kill less.
30:44
Speaker 1: But then on these videos that they found, they also
30:47
Speaker 1: found evidence of them stalking other girls in their class,
30:51
Speaker 1: going to their house and watching them and making a
30:54
Speaker 1: video talking about they could wait for them to be alone.
30:57
Speaker 1: Because the plan was, I believe, was to commit this
31:00
Speaker 1: type of crime multiple times. So and that's what the
31:05
Speaker 1: judge said. Life.
31:07
Speaker 2: That goes against this fancy word you said, right, because
31:10
Speaker 2: it shows that they want to commit it again and
31:12
Speaker 2: again it's not an isolated one time thing. They actually
31:16
Speaker 2: might Yeah. Well, I don't know. This is just that's tough.
31:21
Speaker 2: That's tough because it could be that they changed. It
31:24
Speaker 2: could be that twenty years later they go from sixteen
31:26
Speaker 2: to thirty six and that they've changed. But I don't know.
31:30
Speaker 2: That's tough. And I would respect the family if they
31:33
Speaker 2: said not to let him out, and I would understand
31:35
Speaker 2: if they got out.
31:36
Speaker 1: I guess I.
31:36
Speaker 2: Don't know, but if that happened to my kid.
31:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would be at the parole hearing throwing down.
31:42
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be coming out.
31:52
Speaker 1: So the case became widely known as the Scream murder
31:55
Speaker 1: because Draper and Adam Chick claimed inspiration from the horror franchise.
31:59
Speaker 1: Cassie's later filed a lawsuit against the local school district
32:02
Speaker 1: related to events leading up to the crime. The Idaho
32:05
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled that the school district was not liable
32:08
Speaker 1: for failing to prevent the murder of Casside despite warnings
32:11
Speaker 1: of a column bine like shooting. The justices said that
32:15
Speaker 1: the murder, though tragic, was unforseeable and absent the benefit
32:19
Speaker 1: of hindsight. But as far as her being killed in
32:22
Speaker 1: a remote house, like not at school, It's not.
32:25
Speaker 2: Like she was complaining these boys keep bothering me, they
32:28
Speaker 2: keep recording me, they're stalking me, and the school did nothing.
32:31
Speaker 2: They're making threats.
32:33
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, No, I mean, actually she was friends with them.
32:36
Speaker 1: She invited them over. That's the part. That's the sad part,
32:40
Speaker 1: is that she invited them into her home because they
32:43
Speaker 1: were all friends and the other reason. Just to go
32:47
Speaker 1: to backtrack a little bit, we talked about how they
32:50
Speaker 1: bought the movie tickets as an alibi. But then when
32:53
Speaker 1: you watch the video of them being interrogated by the police,
32:56
Speaker 1: the police officers said, what was the movie about? Yeah,
32:59
Speaker 1: they couldn't well, probably remember something, yeah, but they were asking, okay,
33:05
Speaker 1: what was like what movie? They were like, well, what
33:08
Speaker 1: was the movie about? And neither one of them. That's
33:11
Speaker 1: when you didn't do enough research on your alibi. They
33:13
Speaker 1: couldn't answer a single question about the plot, about the actors,
33:18
Speaker 1: about who was in it, about anything. So then they
33:20
Speaker 1: changed their story and said Okay, I didn't want to
33:24
Speaker 1: tell you this because we didn't want to get in trouble.
33:27
Speaker 1: But we didn't really go see a movie. We were
33:29
Speaker 1: breaking into cars. So then they said that they were
33:33
Speaker 1: they were. They bought the movie tickets and then didn't
33:36
Speaker 1: go to the movie. They were just out breaking into
33:37
Speaker 1: cars they called I don't remember what they called it,
33:39
Speaker 1: but they said they were going around seeing which cars
33:41
Speaker 1: were open. They would steal stuff out of the cars.
33:43
Speaker 2: Stealing from cars is what it's called.
33:45
Speaker 1: Stealing from cars anyway. But then they were asking well,
33:48
Speaker 1: like how many cars, what was the color of the car,
33:50
Speaker 1: what did you take from the car? And also, I remember,
33:54
Speaker 1: I believe this is when one of the parents when
33:57
Speaker 1: they brought up that they were stealing from the cars,
33:59
Speaker 1: and one of the parents was like the interviews over
34:01
Speaker 1: like that, no more, no more questions. So, you know,
34:06
Speaker 1: as a parent, that's also a difficult position to be in.
34:08
Speaker 1: You're sitting in the interrogation room while they're asking your
34:11
Speaker 1: kid question.
34:12
Speaker 2: Well, the thing to do is, and I'm not defending
34:14
Speaker 2: these kids, but the thing to do is just get
34:15
Speaker 2: an attorney right away. Why would you play games of
34:17
Speaker 2: kind of answering? Maybe this test mate, you know, an attorney,
34:21
Speaker 2: and then you don't answer any questions the attorney.
34:23
Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, everyone is apprehensive to get an
34:27
Speaker 1: attorney in the beginning. They look because it thinks, because
34:30
Speaker 1: they think it makes you look guilty. So they're like,
34:32
Speaker 1: because it does, because it does. Absolutely. They even say that.
34:35
Speaker 2: I'm say that all the time, Like, if someone doesn't
34:37
Speaker 2: give you an ID, it's usual because they're hiding something.
34:39
Speaker 1: Right, And so if someone gets an attorney, it's usually
34:42
Speaker 1: because they that guilty.
34:43
Speaker 2: But that can't be used against you in court. When
34:46
Speaker 2: you go to court, you can't say we ceased questioning
34:49
Speaker 2: because they got an attorney. They pled the fifth You
34:52
Speaker 2: can't say any of that in court. So I just know,
34:55
Speaker 2: get an attorney.
34:56
Speaker 1: If if this was my child, and my child was
34:59
Speaker 1: involved in something.
35:01
Speaker 2: That I don't know, if it was that bad, I'd
35:03
Speaker 2: be locked lock them up?
35:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, you would you would be like, lock them up? Yeah,
35:08
Speaker 1: you wouldn't even get your kid an attorney.
35:11
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, you know what, I don't know
35:13
Speaker 2: how I would act until something like that happened, and
35:15
Speaker 2: well he doesn't.
35:16
Speaker 1: The problem is with like, for example, Brian Draper's parents.
35:20
Speaker 1: They probably most likely believe his story where he's changed
35:24
Speaker 1: it was just there.
35:25
Speaker 2: Every parent in the beginning, including us, is going to
35:27
Speaker 2: be quick to side with them. Right.
35:29
Speaker 1: He's saying, I was just there, but I'm not the
35:31
Speaker 1: one that stabbed her. It was all Tory. Tory did it, right,
35:34
Speaker 1: So they're probably lies.
35:35
Speaker 2: These daggers and the blood on my hands.
35:38
Speaker 1: And the video of me saying but of course they're
35:42
Speaker 1: gonna say, Okay, then you know what, you need to
35:45
Speaker 1: go in and you need to be honest, and you
35:48
Speaker 1: need to tell the police the truth, and we'll go
35:50
Speaker 1: with you. And then they're sitting in there and then
35:53
Speaker 1: the story it's like, wait, you went to a movie. Wait,
35:55
Speaker 1: you don't know any of the movie. Wait you were
35:57
Speaker 1: breaking into cars, you know what I mean.
35:59
Speaker 2: Like then, well it's like Chris Watts, remember Chris Watts
36:01
Speaker 2: the other week when his father came in, it was
36:04
Speaker 2: like you gotta you gotta fess up, you got to
36:07
Speaker 2: tell the truth. Like that guy didn't get an attorney,
36:10
Speaker 2: nor did he try to. He was just like, something's here,
36:13
Speaker 2: tell us the truth, right, because I think that father,
36:17
Speaker 2: when I saw it, it came off like it wasn't about
36:21
Speaker 2: getting away with anything, or my son or anything. It
36:25
Speaker 2: was about what happened and it needs you need to
36:28
Speaker 2: tell it and then we need to deal with it.
36:31
Speaker 1: Right. Well, it's a good thing that Chris Watts respected
36:33
Speaker 1: his dad and listened because.
36:36
Speaker 2: I gave I remember when I first saw I gave
36:37
Speaker 2: kudos to his dad for thinking there's a crime here
36:41
Speaker 2: and you need to tell us what happened and then
36:43
Speaker 2: we need to deal with it.
36:44
Speaker 1: Well, while we're paying respect to dads, we also have
36:47
Speaker 1: to remember Wade Wilson's dad. Do you remember the good
36:50
Speaker 1: looking Oh, the guy with the skull on his face?
36:53
Speaker 2: Consider that good looking? He golls on faces?
36:55
Speaker 1: No, he he was good looking, he was charming, he
36:59
Speaker 1: was good looking. He had ale the wives, Wade's wives,
37:02
Speaker 1: lots of women thought he was good looking. Anyway, My
37:04
Speaker 1: point was his dad. Remember he called his dad. Yeah,
37:08
Speaker 1: and his dad was the one that asked him where
37:10
Speaker 1: I was, got the address, told the police yeah, remember,
37:14
Speaker 1: and then that's how they caught him. So you know
37:17
Speaker 1: his dad did.
37:17
Speaker 2: That's what I have to do. If my kids commit
37:19
Speaker 2: to cry, I got to like get him to confess.
37:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your role as dad, all right, So Draper
37:26
Speaker 1: and Adam Chick remain have remained incarcerated and Idahope prisons
37:29
Speaker 1: until today. They are now thirty six years old. You know,
37:32
Speaker 1: it showed interviews with I did.
37:34
Speaker 2: See those because when you were watching, I saw some
37:37
Speaker 2: of that.
37:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
37:39
Speaker 2: You kind of feel for them because they were very adamant,
37:42
Speaker 2: like I'm not that person anymore. This I was a
37:45
Speaker 2: kid like almost like I don't remember if they said
37:47
Speaker 2: this because they're like that was wrong. I'm not like
37:50
Speaker 2: that anymore. I don't want to do. I'm a different person.
37:52
Speaker 2: I've had twenty years since then. But it's like, well, yeah,
37:56
Speaker 2: and I'm still did.
37:59
Speaker 1: I know, you know, I be honest, I don't know exactly.
38:01
Speaker 1: This is very gray. It's a very gray area for me.
38:03
Speaker 1: It's not very black and white. I can't say they
38:06
Speaker 1: deserve life in prison without parole because I do watch them,
38:10
Speaker 1: and I feel the remorse, and I feel badly for
38:14
Speaker 1: their families that they never get to have them home again.
38:16
Speaker 2: And I, oh, I don't feel bad for the families.
38:19
Speaker 1: You don't feel badly for the dad crying outside the
38:22
Speaker 1: prison that his son devastated this family, But then he also.
38:25
Speaker 2: I feel bad for her family.
38:27
Speaker 1: I feel bad for both families.
38:29
Speaker 2: It's tragic all around.
38:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:31
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess on the list of who to
38:33
Speaker 2: feel bad for, it's not them.
38:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do believe you can feel badly for
38:40
Speaker 1: the family of the perpetrator too. I mean those that
38:44
Speaker 1: mom and.
38:44
Speaker 2: Day, they're all suffering. There's no doubt about it.
38:46
Speaker 1: I mean, those kids one night acting stupid, trying to
38:50
Speaker 1: you know, nact a movie and being obsessed with Columbine
38:54
Speaker 1: led them to the rest of their life in prison.
38:58
Speaker 2: I saw the father crying and really being heartbroken, and
39:02
Speaker 2: I found it to be very genuine. Yeah, and I
39:04
Speaker 2: felt bad for him because I okay, here I just
39:06
Speaker 2: said I but I felt bad for him because he
39:08
Speaker 2: was suffering, and he took on the responsibility like did
39:12
Speaker 2: I do anything wrong? Should I spend more time at home?
39:15
Speaker 2: You know, I was working, Like he knew. I'm the
39:18
Speaker 2: parent I raised this child that did harm. So he
39:22
Speaker 2: took on some accountability. But then when he said that
39:26
Speaker 2: he would switch places with him in a heartbeat, which
39:29
Speaker 2: I guess is what any parent would or should do.
39:32
Speaker 2: I get that. But he was outside the prison. I
39:34
Speaker 2: think he was in the field talking. He was crying,
39:36
Speaker 2: and he was like he would in a heartbeat, and
39:37
Speaker 2: he said it over and over again, and I believed
39:39
Speaker 2: him that he meant it. But then it's like, but
39:41
Speaker 2: your son, so you do think your son should be free?
39:45
Speaker 2: You've forgotten that he's murdered this girl in such a
39:49
Speaker 2: horrific manner, almost in a laughing manner, for their own enjoyment,
39:55
Speaker 2: and then now you think he should be out. I
39:58
Speaker 2: don't know.
39:58
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but when he says he would take a place,
40:00
Speaker 1: that means I think he just meant he would bear
40:05
Speaker 1: the brunt of like whatever pain his son is going through,
40:07
Speaker 1: like he would take that on.
40:08
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm talking about, I know, but I don't.
40:11
Speaker 1: I don't mean avince literally that is that he means
40:14
Speaker 1: that his son should walk free.
40:16
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly what he said. He said that I
40:18
Speaker 2: can go there right now and he could walk out.
40:20
Speaker 2: I would do it right now. It is exactly what
40:23
Speaker 2: he said.
40:23
Speaker 1: Now, all right, Well, I.
40:26
Speaker 2: Don't know, you know what there's doron. No answers. We're
40:28
Speaker 2: just trying to process it and talk about it. But
40:29
Speaker 2: it's tough.
40:30
Speaker 1: Well, you know what else he did. The way I
40:32
Speaker 1: understood it was when he was talking about when he
40:34
Speaker 1: was younger. During that time period, I believe he said
40:36
Speaker 1: he was gone a lot for work, and he was
40:38
Speaker 1: working a lot. I think he was making a lot
40:40
Speaker 1: of money. At least that's the way. That was the
40:41
Speaker 1: way I took it.
40:42
Speaker 2: He started questioning if he was parenting enough right.
40:45
Speaker 1: And he was talking about how he was doing well,
40:47
Speaker 1: and I think my interpretation was that he was making
40:49
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Then he said after his son
40:52
Speaker 1: committed this murder and then was put in prison, that
40:56
Speaker 1: nothing meant anything to him anymore. He said he got
40:58
Speaker 1: rid of all of his possessions, even real estate.
41:00
Speaker 2: I remember that he gave it away.
41:02
Speaker 1: Didn't even say to that he like, he didn't even
41:05
Speaker 1: try to make money. He just gave everything away.
41:10
Speaker 2: And I kind of I felt that to be commendable,
41:14
Speaker 2: Like he realized, like, you know, there's something tragic here.
41:18
Speaker 2: They're sending horrific for everyone here, and I'm gonna worry
41:20
Speaker 2: about like whether I need new bedding or not, you know,
41:24
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna, you know, go to work, Like what's
41:26
Speaker 2: the meaning of everything?
41:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess at that point there is no meaning
41:29
Speaker 1: to anything anymore. I mean, money doesn't mean anything. Having
41:32
Speaker 1: a nice lifestyle doesn't mean anything.
41:34
Speaker 2: Anything beyond your basic survival.
41:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he gave everything away. I could tell
41:39
Speaker 1: just by the way he looks, in the way he talked,
41:40
Speaker 1: that he for the past twenty years had been suffering,
41:43
Speaker 1: probably suffering more than I.
41:44
Speaker 2: Found it very genuine, and I didn't really find him
41:47
Speaker 2: to be selfish or anything. I found it. I didn't
41:48
Speaker 2: find him to be justifying his son's knocks. No, just anyway, Okay,
41:54
Speaker 2: so this is the child that was adopted, right, Yes,
41:57
Speaker 2: he was abortid nature versus nurture. That child was adopted
42:03
Speaker 2: by another And I know this family to be good.
42:05
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they're they're bad family. But if the
42:07
Speaker 2: child was adopted, well, we know, if he moved to Idaho, Ohio,
42:11
Speaker 2: it might have been the same result, right, because there's
42:13
Speaker 2: a lot of murders in there, really are Okay anyway,
42:17
Speaker 2: Oh right, No, really, if this child was adopted by
42:21
Speaker 2: another good family, what would have happened? What he is
42:27
Speaker 2: he destined to murder?
42:29
Speaker 1: I don't know that's a good question, because what you're
42:31
Speaker 1: saying is he was adopted by this nice Lds family.
42:33
Speaker 1: It's very religious family.
42:34
Speaker 2: Obviously, the family very dedicated to the child, and there
42:37
Speaker 2: are a lot of work to adopt a child, so
42:39
Speaker 2: obviously they cared for a child.
42:41
Speaker 1: Right. The question is if it was a different family,
42:44
Speaker 1: would the exact same thing have happened, which means it's
42:46
Speaker 1: it's not nurture, it's nature. He right, I know, I'm
42:50
Speaker 1: agreeing with you. I'm saying the question is, was he
42:53
Speaker 1: just innately evil?
42:55
Speaker 2: I'm going to guess. No, I'm going to guess something
42:58
Speaker 2: happened along the way, and it could have not been home.
43:00
Speaker 2: It could have been getting into the horror movies. It
43:01
Speaker 2: could have been his friend, it could have been the
43:03
Speaker 2: building each other up. I don't know, but it reminds
43:06
Speaker 2: me of the Twilight Zone episode where this guy goes
43:10
Speaker 2: back in time and then he comes to I don't
43:14
Speaker 2: the details escape me because I was very young when
43:16
Speaker 2: I saw this, and it was the reboot of the
43:19
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone, which doesn't really count because it's not really
43:21
Speaker 2: Rod Serling. But nonetheless, he realizes he could stop Hitler
43:27
Speaker 2: because he's at the time of when Hitler's born. So
43:30
Speaker 2: he searches out and he finds Hitler as a baby, right,
43:33
Speaker 2: and he thinks, I'm gonna basically save a human race. Yeah,
43:38
Speaker 2: which is a good thing. So he goes through the
43:41
Speaker 2: effort and he casts to kidnap a baby, Hitler, Hitler,
43:45
Speaker 2: and then he can't come to killing the child because
43:49
Speaker 2: he's not a killer. So I think he puts him
43:52
Speaker 2: in the river or something lets him float away. Another
43:56
Speaker 2: couple finds this baby and they think they and they
43:59
Speaker 2: always longed for a child, and they're going to care
44:02
Speaker 2: for this child. Oh yeah, that's what it was. So
44:04
Speaker 2: then he thinks, this is better. I'll give him to
44:06
Speaker 2: another family to be raised by another family. He will,
44:09
Speaker 2: so then he'll be different, right, and then they name
44:10
Speaker 2: him aid Off, the end Off, and that's the end
44:15
Speaker 2: pretty much.
44:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so it won't change and that in.
44:19
Speaker 2: That storytelling, Well, he pulled him out, put him in
44:22
Speaker 2: a different family, thinking he changed the course of history,
44:25
Speaker 2: and it didn't work. Well.
44:26
Speaker 1: The thing is, I believe if you want to try
44:29
Speaker 1: to do a psychoanalysis of these two boys, maybe Brian
44:33
Speaker 1: had an issue with being adopted, feeling abandoned. He knew
44:36
Speaker 1: he was an adopted child, growing yes, not not knowing
44:39
Speaker 1: where he fits in. And then you have the other
44:42
Speaker 1: kid who also was gay but was I don't know
44:46
Speaker 1: he wasn't out, and I think as far as I know,
44:49
Speaker 1: this town that they were in, there were no other
44:52
Speaker 1: He didn't have family, He didn't have anybody to relate to.
44:55
Speaker 1: There wasn't anyone at school, there were no family members,
44:58
Speaker 1: There wasn't anyone in his life that was great.
45:00
Speaker 2: Didn't know either.
45:00
Speaker 1: No. Well, his mom claims that she knew that it
45:04
Speaker 1: was obvious, but I don't think there was ever a
45:05
Speaker 1: conversation or anything.
45:07
Speaker 2: So from that point of view, he had no one
45:08
Speaker 2: to connect with.
45:09
Speaker 1: Right, So you have these two outcasts that don't feel
45:13
Speaker 1: like they belong. You've got one that's adopted, one that's
45:15
Speaker 1: gay but doesn't know how to articulate it or deal
45:19
Speaker 1: with it or live that lifestyle. And then so then
45:24
Speaker 1: they connect and they find some type of common ground
45:28
Speaker 1: between them talking about murdering people. And then you know,
45:32
Speaker 1: you said it correctly before when you talked about how
45:33
Speaker 1: it's like they just excite each other and pump each
45:36
Speaker 1: other up. I don't think individually, by themselves they would
45:39
Speaker 1: have gone into that house and murdered someone. But when
45:42
Speaker 1: you have someone saying, let's do it, let's record it,
45:46
Speaker 1: let's talk about we're gonna do this, We're gonna then it.
45:50
Speaker 2: How long they spent time together before this murder took place? Like,
45:53
Speaker 2: were they was it like one school year where they
45:56
Speaker 2: longtime friends.
45:58
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd been friends long. I remember that.
46:00
Speaker 1: I don't think I had been very long. But I
46:02
Speaker 1: think once they found each other, it was like very
46:05
Speaker 1: kind of fast and furious, like it was just they
46:06
Speaker 1: were together all the time and always talking about scary
46:10
Speaker 1: movies and horror movies and weapons and all the things.
46:13
Speaker 1: So and then they probably fed into that and then
46:17
Speaker 1: started watching Columbine videos together. I wasn't either. I don't.
46:21
Speaker 1: I can't watch scary movies. I saw you just like
46:25
Speaker 1: I like real murder. I don't like that fake stuff.
46:27
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't. I'm not into horror anyway.
46:30
Speaker 1: Also, the kind of question I have for everyone out
46:33
Speaker 1: there listening, what is your thoughts on juveniles and life
46:38
Speaker 1: without parole? I would like to know your thoughts on that.
46:41
Speaker 1: Do you think that juveniles should be sentenced to life
46:45
Speaker 1: without parole? Do you think because they're a juvenile that
46:47
Speaker 1: they should be given an opportunity later in life to
46:50
Speaker 1: see if they're rehabilitated. Do you think a crime can
46:53
Speaker 1: be so heinous and so terrible that they deserve to
46:56
Speaker 1: spend the rest of their life in jail. I would
46:58
Speaker 1: just like to know what you guys think about that.
47:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to know the nature versus nurture.
47:03
Speaker 1: Or nature versus nurture, lots to talk about it in
47:06
Speaker 1: the I think it's both.
47:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think anyone's born or murderer, right all.
47:11
Speaker 1: Right, thanks guys for listening to our episode today. As always,
47:14
Speaker 1: you can follow legally Brunette, so please make sure to
47:16
Speaker 1: do that. Also, we have a new spin off called
47:19
Speaker 1: Till Death Do Us Part where we discuss husband's killing
47:22
Speaker 1: wives or wives killing husbands. So if you have any recommendations,
47:26
Speaker 1: please let us know. But as far as my research shows,
47:29
Speaker 1: there's a whole plethora that's a unhappy that's.
47:33
Speaker 2: Just never ending.
47:34
Speaker 1: We'll just have lots of material for that. Also, if
47:37
Speaker 1: you listen to us on two teas, just be aware
47:40
Speaker 1: that not all of our episodes go into two teas,
47:42
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47:44
Speaker 1: feed Legally Brunette and listen to all of our episodes
47:48
Speaker 1: over there. But again, thank you so much for listening,
47:50
Speaker 1: and thank you for your DMS. I appreciate your feedback
47:53
Speaker 1: and thank you for your recommendations, and thank you so
47:55
Speaker 1: much for listening.
48:00
Speaker 2: M