Latest / Pursuit of Sassiness / Men Only Want Me For Sex…How Do I Change That?

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Men Only Want Me For Sex…How Do I Change That? · Pursuit of Sassiness

• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Hey I do for two it's your celebrity mentor Kelly
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: ben smone And today I'm going to basically open up
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and have my own therapy session on air.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Scary.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, hopefully I can gain something out of this for
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: all of us. Today. I'm joined today by my great friend,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Hillary Goldher.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: She's a psychologist who does.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: well as individuals in all areas of life before marriage,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: during marriage, separated divorce, and high conflict divorce. Welcome, doctor
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Hillary Hiver. Oh, hi, Hi, So I have some questions
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I'm here for it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I want to give you a little background of like
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: where I you know, how I got to where I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: am today. So I got divorced in two thousand and
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: seven and mediator I took care of everything, got him
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a new girlfriend, locked him up, just took everything, like
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: in control so my kids.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Would be happy, he'd be happy.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: And when on a television show, thought that I was
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: going to be, you know, feeling free and you know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: able to like nowdate people who you know, really cared
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: about me and wanted to be with me, And that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: didn't work out because it was just like all of
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: these like entertainment kind of poser kind of people, which
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: was super disappointing. And then, you know, day try to
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: date some people that were on entertainment because I was like, Okay,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: he's entertainment, I'm entertainment. Let's figure this out. That did
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: not work out, and then retired from the show and started,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you know, working on my own writing books and working
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: with in the jewelry and partnership space with collaborations, which
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: was so much fun, but I was laser focused on
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: making money, providing for my kids and making sure they
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: were safe cut too.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I am now still single.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to get married two years ago, found
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: out that the guy wasn't going to sign my prenup,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and just really found out that he wasn't who he
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: said he was.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And now I'm.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: You know, out there dating. I met a really really
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: nice guy last year. We had a you know, such
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: a great relationship, and then I was going to go
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: on a show, and I just was afraid that he wasn't.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what he wanted to do, but it
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was making definitive moves forward. I mean,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: we were together, we were having a great time. We
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: were having fun, the kids are having a great time.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Everyone is having a great time. But that's not a relationship.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: That's a friend and a fun friend, whatever you want.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: To call them. Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And then now I'm back on television. This is my
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: second season of a new show, and I'm still single.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: But the thing that's different this time around is now
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I'm on HRT. So I'm single and I'm wildly ready
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: to meet someone.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, I have a couple questions,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: but I'll just say this. I just want to remind
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: you and listeners that have similar stories around divorce that
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: divorce is really traumatic, and divorce with children, it's really
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: really traumatic, and there are a lot even in the
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: best of circumstances, And I don't know what yours were,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: but they don't sound like they qualify for the best
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: of circumstances. But even under the best of circumstances, it's
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: really really hard and it takes a while for the mind, body,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: spirit to recover. And I think it has an impact
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: that people don't even realize until they realize it is
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: a real paradigm shift and a version of an existential crisis,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: especially with kids and so you doing a version of
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: relationally reeling posted divorce for this period of time is
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: not that surprising. I don't mean that related to you specifically,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I just mean in general, it's a lot to recover from.
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  Speaker 3: And so I just think having a version of like
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: empathy and understanding that you're going to have some trauma
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: responses and emotional hangover from your experience that's going to
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: impact how you move through relationships for this season. I'm
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: sure you're list to not to have that always be
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: the case, but I just kind of want to honor
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: that truth because I think it's sacred and not something
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: to be suppressed or rushed through. I think said that,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I am curious from your perspective. You know, the only
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: thing you and I have at this moment besides like
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: twenty thirty minutes, is also the things that you have
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: control over that you know about how you move through relationships,
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  Speaker 3: And I'm just curious from your perspective what you think
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: impacts how you show up in a relationship and what
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: are the arenas that you want to look at and
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: strengthen or shift.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you so much for acknowledging
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the trauma that I went through. I think when people
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: hear me talk about they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, she's fine. No,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't say it was fine. I said I took
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: care of it. You weren't listening to me. I didn't
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: have the luxury.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: To not be fine.
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  Speaker 1: I two children, and my husband was a lot older
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: than I was, and I just needed to make sure
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that my kids were in the best possible life. Ever,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that's my responsibility, but doesn't mean that I didn't suffer.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that I wasn't feeling like absolutely, doesn't mean
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't feeling wildly insecure. That doesn't mean any
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of that. So thank you for acknowledging that. Honestly, you
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: can cry because I'm like no one ever everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: it's fine, she's fine. Like no, No, Just because I handle
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: things doesn't mean I don't feel.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, and there's something, Yeah, there's something particularly insidious someone
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: like you who's entirely capable, and so it can appear
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: as if it's quote fine, and of course in many
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: ways it's completely fine because it had to be, and
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: you have those internal resources and can curate the external
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: ones needed. But the toll is silent and insidious to
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: use my word again, And I think it's really important
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: to keep that in mind about incredible, courageous women who
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: are post divorced and doing all those things, to keep
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: in mind that empathy and compassion and how vulnerable and
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: scary it actually feels.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, also, I am a writer, and you know
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I worked with many many magazines. I have written many books,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and it's my job to create narratives and especially in
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: that situation, with my job to create narratives that kept
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: my ex husband and my children both safe. So that's
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: my job. That's I know, that's my job, and I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: know how to do it well. But doesn't mean again,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Like you know, when things
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: cut with me, they get really really deep.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I love my friends, my family, I have a twin brother,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I have great great I had great parents. I'm very,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: very fortunate to have love in my life.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: But I'm you.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Know, I have I have a lot of fear and
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of hurt.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of hurt.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you for being so open and vulnerable
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: about that. Because you're saying it, maybe maybe other women
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: can feel like they can say it to them selves
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: or to save others or both. You know thisms to
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: be true. I mean one can be scared and heard
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: and vulnerable and also be I live through your life
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: in a really strong, you know way. It two things
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: can be true at the same time. But I would
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: be curious, like, from your perspective, what are thematically? What
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: shows up in your relationships you know that you want
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: to think about or work on.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Or I think it's the same kind of just like
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you nailed it, like this curation. I think I'm constantly
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: curating narratives for people.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: If they say, oh.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I had a bad ex wife, I'm like, oh, you know,
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  Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that you can work on.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: We can talk about it together. I'm here to you know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: talk here, listen to you.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't want to do that. I don't want to.
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  Speaker 1: Be curating people's narratives like this is my life, this
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  Speaker 1: is I'm the person. I'm the main character energy here,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: not them, And I want I mean I got divorced
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: with the intention of finding someone and finding more than
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: finding love, but finding someone who was going to listen
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: to me and be genuinely curious about me. I mean
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this's going to sound very strange, but I kind of
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: thought about this the other day that there's the Kelly
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Bensimone personality that people see and they think, and then
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: there's the Kelly Klaurin from Rockford, Illinois, and that's who
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: they're dating. They're not dating Kelly Bensimone writer whatever it is,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: you know, all those different slashes and hypheness whatever you
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: want to call them, they're dating me.
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  Speaker 2: And it really.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because it's like everyone's like, oh,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you're an attachment kind of style, Like, oh no, no, no,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna avoidant. I tie a boat on you to
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: push you away. I'm not attaching to you unless we're
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I really feel like I can actually trust you, which
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: is very very hard for me. What are your thoughts
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: on that? Do you think I'm an attachment.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't like to put such heavy labels.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: It sounds like, you know, you've cultivated a coping strategy
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: that keeps your vulnerability somewhat at bay, but it's not attractable.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: And I feel like when people talk about attachment styles,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: it makes it feel intractable and impossible to like address
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: and take on as if it can't be shifted or
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: thought about it in a different way. I mean, what
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: you said at the beginning is so insightful and profound
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: and meaningful, meaning that your tendency to help people create narratives,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: which I'm translating into you taking care of people, right,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: you helping people make meaning of their own lives and
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: you know whatever, we want to call it, saving them,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: rescuing them, being of counsel to them. And that does
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: a number of things. I mean, first of all, it's
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: lovely in a beautiful skill of yours. I don't I'm
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: not saying that majorata of I mean it, And I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: imagine it's a comfort zone of yours that you're really
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: good at it, and so you might immediately go there
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: because it feels like a position of strength for you.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: It feels like something you do well, and it's compelling.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: But too much of it without like emotional diversification, means
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: that there's automatically a power imbalance or some kind of imbalance,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: namely that you're the one, as you said, putting a
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: bow on people's stories, and your vulnerability doesn't have a
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: way in and I imagine part of you does that
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: purposely right to protect yourself. And I imagine part of
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: you does that habitually because you're used to it.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, as a writer, your job is to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: synthesize information.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So that's what I do.
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  Speaker 1: Is I hear what a person is saying, I synthesize it,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I process it, and then I say, well, here's my
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: takeaway for you.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's not what I want to do my on.
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  Speaker 1: A Tuesday at eight o'clock at night. I don't want
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: to be listening to someone and synthesizing for them and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: promising for them.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Like I do that all day long.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I don't need to do it at home, so I
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: need to So to your point, like, that isn't what.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I want to do. I don't. I don't.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not a savior. I'm not someone that saves you.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I'm someone that kind of like, listen, I listen to men.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So men really are attracted to me, which is very
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: nice and very you know, obviously a beautiful thing. But
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I also have a twin brother, so I'm not intimidated.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So when I talk to men, I'm not like, oh
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: my god, he talked to me and he called me.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh he called me.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: That was nice.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Made a nice time. Like I don't have those those
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: kind of male relationships because I don't understand the male brand.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But I'm a twin, like I'm just I have a
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I just feel very comfortable and confident around men, which
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: is also complicated. I'm complicated, Hillary, I'm complicated.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Well, here's a challenge, is that maybe you will feel
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: potentially less comfortable in quotes around man or a man
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: if you don't immediately embody the role of synthesizer. Right.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: And when I say not comfortable, I mean just more vulnerable,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: more present, more open, you know. For I often say
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: this to clients and it sounds so obvious, but it
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: feels poignant. It's like, for things to be different, you
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: have to do something differently.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: You have to.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: You can have all the insight in the world from
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: the best therapist, you know, the most amazing friends, but
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: if you don't do something behaviorally that is different, you're
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: going to have the same result. You really have to
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: pair insight with different behavior to have something feel different.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, showing up and deliberately preventing yourself
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: from doing that, maybe you can do it a little.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: But guiding yourself to sit in the silence and the
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: awkwardness and the discomfort, you know, and might compel him
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: whoever he is, to ask a question or to get
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: more curious about you rather than filling the space with
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: what you know.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I just I went on a date this past couple
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of days and the guy was just kind of like,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: how long you've been single? And he's He's like, honestly, like,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I really don't care. I just if you want to
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: talk about it, you can. I was like, you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it's not that I care about how long that I've
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: been single. I just want you to know that it's
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: not like I'm waiting around to be in a relationships relationship.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I just want to enjoy myself.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Like I'm at that.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Stage of my life in my career where I am
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in all the businesses that I run, I'm just very
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: comfortable and I'm just looking for just someone to like.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I had such a nice time at dinner with him,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and I just like, I'm just looking to enjoy my life.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And he literally his face like just kind of melted.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Instead of him being like, she wants to get married
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: tomorrow and.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: She wants to do these things and she needs this,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: and she dos.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: That he was just like he was like, I'm so
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: happy to meet you. And I was like, oh my god,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Like I approached this in a different way, and I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: didn't even know that I was.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just felt different.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: That's really interesting. Yeah, and you were able to follow
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: that energy and speak and embody a truth that was compelling.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: You know, the more alignment we're in, the more compelling
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: it is. I think.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I also was just in a major car accident, a
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: really serious car accident, two weeks ago, and.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I am just I just was like I.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Woke up one morning and I'm like, what am I doing.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: My twin brothers like Kelly, He's like, one second more,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you would have been dead. He's like, do you realize,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: like how lucky you are? And I know that sounds,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: you know, very cliche. I had this moment, this cathartic moment.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I changed, I would changed. I just feel differently about
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm approaching things in a different way because I'm
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: grateful for where I am, genuinely.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: One of one of the elements to bring into your
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: pursuit relationally is is vulnerability around wanting to be known. Right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: You don't want to be the only curator of stories.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: You want that to be mutual you want someone to
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: know you, which you should want someone to know you
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: mutually for that reciprocity to occur, and even going in
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: with that intention of wanting to be known, you know,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, you might even put words to that that
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: like along the lines of like, hey, I just want
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: to be in good company with someone and enjoy space,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: like you could add I want to be I want
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: to know someone. I want to be known, you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: as part of like what you're looking for.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Actually love that.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I love that you just want to be known, and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. And I mean I don't have those educated,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: articulate words, but I did say something a little bit
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: along the lines, which again like gave him that opportunity
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: to just relax and not be afraid.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, and also keeps you accountable from from embodying that
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: same role over and over again of being the one
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: to know the other.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I want to your advice about dating, you know, I went,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I'm back on Hinge and Ryan, I'm like, Okay, I'm going.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: To actually like do you want to go on date?
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Let's do Let's go on a date.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: But like all my friends are like, oh, he's asking
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: me specific questions I'm like, I'm not asking anyone anything anymore.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I am so tired of asking them questions. That's boring me.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just like.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I just want to have you, get you for two
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: hours and people present who exactly who they are. They
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: tell you I don't need to ask the questions. They
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: are ready to tell you, and they tell you exactly
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: what you're like, Hey, I'm floating, they're floating. Hey, you know,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Max wife was really really mean to me, and I'm
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: looking for someone that's not mean to me. They're looking
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: they're telling you or me and or me what the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: story is. And I was just like I wented a
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: couple of days. These guys seemed really really nice. They're
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: all very educated, nice jobs everything, and I just was like,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I can't do this.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I just can't do this. I was like, it's not
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: going to go forward. I just can't.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I can't be interviewed every single time and go on
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a date and I can't have you like tap dancing
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: around me, like you know, let's have a glass of wine. Great,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I'll meet you for half an hour. Like I need
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you to just be like available and wanted to do
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: things and just like seeing how things go versus creating
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: some kind of like one, two, three, let's get to
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the third. Yeah, so how do I how do I
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: tell these men stop triving to the third third date
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: so we can have sex?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Ah?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: That was long winned.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, but I needed the background actually, you know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: kind of aligning with what we were just saying about
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: the notion of wanting to be known. I mean, I
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: think you could directly say that, you know that, Like,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm a I'm in a phase. I'm in a
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: season where I want to be like slow, deliberate, have
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: like companionship. I want to know someone. I want to
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: be known, and I want to like slow roll the
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: other stuff I just do. And that might be resonant
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: for you. It might not be like you can you
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: let me know?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: But a lot of the guys are like they're saying
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: to me, like, if you don't have sex with someone,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you don't know how you feel about them. I'm like, well,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: first of all, you're not going to sex with me. Like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just not like that anyway. I'm I mean, I'm
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I'm i am not on no one else's time of
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: my own. If I feel like having sex with you,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: we will have sex. If I do not have feel
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like having sex, if we might not have sex for
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: a month, yes, that's no harm, no foul like, Yes,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that's just who I am. If you cannot wait for
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the month, then you're not going to be dating me.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I think you have the answer already inside of you.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, I just to kind of clarify it for
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: you and for other women and women listening that any
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: narrative that sex must happen in a particular time frame
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: for your potential male partner, is there a narrative, and
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: it doesn't make it bad or wrong, but it is theirs,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: and you don't have to adopt it. Obviously, pressure is
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: a whole other thing. But if someone is still respectfully
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: or playfully or something you know, putting forth this narrative,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: you can listen to it and respect it, but clearly
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: stay like it just doesn't rest with me. For me,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I like to have it unfold slowly, and for me,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: sex comes on the back of more time and more
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: emotional connection, and it doesn't make you wrong in me right,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: But that is who I am. And I think there's
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: some real empowerment in being able to look up person
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: in the eye and say this is who I am
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: and feel really good about it rather than feeling like
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: you're compromising an opportunity. It might sound cliche, but if
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that isn't resonant with someone that can't be your person,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: it's a pretty low bar ask, right.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of men think that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: if they do try to get me to have sex,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: then they're going to lock me in or I'm a
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: locker in with sex because I'm having sex with her
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and she can only have sex with me and because
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: she doesn't want, you know, and I'm just like what
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: is going on? Like yeah, I'm like, wait, what I would?
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I would be even more direct than you have been,
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: you know that, Like in case it's confusing, like this
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: is this is my state of the union on sex, right?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: You know that it's it's on the back of time
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: and companionship and emotional connection and that you know, if
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: that's not resonant, totally cool, like, but just not going
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: to be an alignment for me.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. Final thoughts for women that are like me that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to ask men on a date, Like,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: give me like two questions I should ask men on
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: my first date.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Gosh, I mean to be honest. I look, if there
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: are questions that come up that feel organic, ask them,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: you know, sort of all the typical questions like like
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: what got you here? Like what season are you in?
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Relationship wise? You know, you know, what's what's resonant for
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: you in your life right now? Like what are the
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: things that make you you? You know kind of thing
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I think are fun, playful, like low pressure things. But
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: also I don't think to your earlier point that one
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: has to feel armed with a bunch of really compelling,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: unique questions. You know, first meetings, first dates are all
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: fraught with those key parts you know of like awkwardness
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: and weirdness and some prescriptedness. And I think that's okay,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: you know, even acknowledging that can sort of be like yep,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: I might ask you a bunch of questions that are
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: standard fair for this first date, but doesn't make me
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: less interested here I go. You know, you can narrate
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: the process of awkwardness and strangeness. And I think there's
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: anything particularly unique or special that one has to force
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: themselves to bring, but rather to sort of acknowledge that, like,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: you know, I know this could be weird, but it
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: doesn't make me less interested in like what your deal is, like,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: what your state of the union is, what do you
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: like to do day to day? Like who are you?
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Kind of thing. I think it's completely fine to narrate
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: the awkwardness of it rather than pretend that it doesn't
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: have that prescribed quality.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you so much. I love the
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: idea of being known, and I love the idea of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: taking space. I love those two takeaways, doctor Hillary.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so happy to see you, by the way.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Oh god, often, Oh my god, you're fantastic, and you're
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: just so articulate, and you're just very very very easy
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to talk to. Appreciate you.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: It's so good to see you, Kelly.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: And thank you for acknowledging my fear. And I really
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that means a lot. That really means a lot to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, all right, all right?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Are you like me and trying to navigate this crazy
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: world of dating? Do you have questions or need advice?
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the info are in the show notes and follow us
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: on socials. I do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: falling in love is the main objective.