Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark Dodyk about his choice of Fury from the Deep (3/6)

Transcript

Talks to Mark Dodyk about his choice of Fury from the Deep (3/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Welcome back to hamster with a blunt.
0:42
Penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:45
Well, I read, just my dentures, I, I will hand over to Joe.
0:51
Hello. Yes, hello.
0:55
It's quite a mouthful. As I've said to the choir boy,
1:00
clearly pushing my bedtime. Well, at least you said, bombs,
1:09
It could have been worse. Yes.
1:12
But what are we here to watch? Today we have been watching Fury
1:16
from the deep and we are about to go into episode 3, which
1:22
equals stimulating. You know, it has been so far is
1:25
given us quite a lot to talk about.
1:29
And I don't think we've really scratched the surface.
1:31
Have, we know what? We've talked about the era, we
1:35
talked about the season, we talked about story and we talked
1:39
about some of the actors, very much.
1:41
Yes, we need to, we need to really dig a little bit deeper
1:43
and bring some of the fury to the surface.
1:46
Well, I'll tell you, what, you intro'd, I'll count as in.
1:51
If you're ready to go, I am I my finger on the button.
1:56
Five, four, three, two. One off we go.
2:02
Do you feel strange watching this in color?
2:07
It yeah it doesn't feel right to me because it's black and white
2:12
in my head. I only ever watch him in color.
2:16
You know I don't ever watch the animations in black and white
2:19
power of the Daleks is the only one actually.
2:21
Hmm. Some reason I don't know why
2:23
Margaret era was brilliantly in color.
2:26
I think a benefits from, I think the macro Terror so burnt story.
2:31
Anyway, isn't it? Gay and cheerful, isn't it?
2:35
But it's a bit like a Seeing the mind of evil in color.
2:39
Now still doesn't sit right with me.
2:41
It was black and white for so long.
2:44
The color version I kind of secretly hoped that when it came
2:48
out and Blu-ray. We would have a Black and White
2:50
Version 2. I can't watch that.
2:53
Forgive me, shoddy color version of invasion of the Dinosaurs
2:56
episode 10. Yeah, it's a shame of the
2:59
process didn't work very well and it's just so atmospheric in
3:03
black and white. Yeah, it's really effective, I
3:06
don't care. Doctor Who sometimes it's really
3:08
fortunate, that it gets directors, who spatially and
3:12
were work on film really. Well, can I say, I think
3:15
something very strange occurs in this episode.
3:20
Again, it's very anomalous, this season.
3:23
And that is, we all head back to the Tardis to do scientific
3:28
experiments on the bit of weed. Aha, now, there's not been any
3:33
other story in season 5 where you they had the opportunity to
3:37
go. Back to the Tardis and that's a
3:39
place of safety. So in the middle of our got a
3:42
horror story is weird in the middle, to just, it happens in
3:46
hide in the series 7 as well. Is that we're in this haunted
3:50
house, scary things are going on.
3:52
I'll just pop into the Tardis and watch that and it kind of
3:55
dispels the tension because suddenly we're sorry it's odd,
3:59
isn't it? Yeah, because I think because it
4:00
happens in the Abominable Snowman as well about halfway
4:05
through it. Did I get into this?
4:07
Tardis. I know they go back to it but
4:08
there's two yet he's outside of it.
4:10
Yeah. And I think they managed to one
4:12
of them. Go one of the, one of the Yeti
4:14
takes off and then the other one they managed to distract, I
4:18
think by throwing a rock or whatever and see if it's
4:22
something that happens very rarely and I think probably at
4:24
this time in this series where space is at a premium in the
4:27
studio rather than always have the Tardis in the first episode.
4:30
I think that maybe just trying to mix it up a little and have
4:32
it at different stages. In the story just would give a
4:37
different beat. I'm so used to those William
4:40
Hartnell stories where they're cut off from the Tardis and
4:43
that's the danger. Basically the whole story is
4:45
about how the fuck do we get back to the Tardis?
4:47
We've just got to get out of this.
4:48
Terrible lies. The Daleks with the fluid link
4:52
the center rights with the lock being taken away.
4:54
Am I wrong about you? Yes.
4:56
Yeah you know and stuff like that or basically any period of
5:00
History they go to which is always horrific and they just
5:03
need to get away as soon as possible but ha Yes, it did feel
5:08
really weird and to sea trout and doing science as well when
5:13
he's and I know, he, he is a scientist and he does have
5:18
moments where he's very clever, but he's sort of more of a
5:21
lash-up, sort of bloke, you know?
5:23
Yeah, he sort of the often Damon please his abilities as well.
5:27
His, his take on the doctor isn't one for gluing their own
5:32
trumpet or You know, the first doctor is the haha success.
5:37
I, you know, I I've worked it out or the third doctor would be
5:40
a bit smug about it, but the second dog tree, I quite like
5:43
the fact that he involves Victoria in it and which is
5:46
really nothing. It is nice.
5:47
Having them all together, get it just feels valued old in this
5:51
story that Phil already feels really odd.
5:54
I think pemberton's are obscured a rather daunting store.
5:56
I want to write whether it fits in, with everything else top
6:00
solutely. And I think that sometimes quite
6:01
a good way of going about it, rather than trying to eat.
6:04
In for what may be gone before. And perhaps, it's just a kind of
6:09
unique thing about stories with a companion to believing that.
6:13
There's a slightly different vibe about the dynamic as well,
6:16
because the green death has a similar feel to it.
6:20
And the Hand of fear does as well, the to home, Baker and
6:23
Elizabeth sleep, no playing it very differently and the
6:26
characterization and the affection that they have for
6:29
one. Another actually, it shows in a
6:32
way that it hasn't been any of them.
6:34
Seating stories and there's that moment, I think when you first
6:39
watch Doctor Who story in a companion, exit story, where you
6:45
as a viewer as a fan have that our stomachs not right here.
6:51
This then that they're going and I think with Victoria happens
6:55
quite early in this story with Sarah Jane, it was quite late in
7:00
hand. A fear with Joe brought, it's
7:02
that bit where she goes. I'm sorry doctor but I'm Going,
7:04
will you want me to or not? Yeah, he says that doesn't even
7:12
have seen The Frigid fledgling flies the next Yeah, I like
7:18
those moments. So when you like okay or now
7:20
we're just waiting for them to go.
7:22
Yeah and I can't it's one of those things that I would always
7:25
slightly dispute because Terrance dicks always said there
7:29
was a time for these character moments you know you're just
7:32
trying to get the story out there by and you're trying to
7:34
keep the thing going but they always complained that six-part
7:39
stories were too long and seven Parts stories were arduous and
7:43
for par stories lag in episode 3, Why wasn't their capacity for
7:48
for even to just minut little bits here and there are
7:52
sometimes it would need to be an awful lot to put a little bit of
7:57
depth, interesting. But I think in those seven
8:00
Partners they managed to do that there are little moments
8:04
literature saying to dr. Leonard's, you know, used to be
8:08
a respected scientist once yet. Look, what's become of him now
8:11
or the bit between? Gosh, is it colonel?
8:16
Masters the political politician in the silurians and people
8:20
where he goes. Look, I'm really sorry.
8:22
But he goes, you know, this going to be end of my career and
8:25
just like little moments like that where you in a for pastor
8:28
say, you know, close Mac sauce, you just don't have time.
8:31
So, what's going on? Yeah, that's stories.
8:33
Portable Palm is so fast. And to be fair, this story is
8:38
full of care of bees. Yeah.
8:41
And it had, it does have quite a lot of those things.
8:43
And conveniently, I've got the production, Tight as up.
8:47
And it's just given me. The title the program, I was
8:49
trying to think of before I what was it?
8:51
The troubleshooters ha, ha. Hey, and that was a massive
8:56
influence at the time, especially for a nurse Lloyd.
8:59
When he was casting this particular season when he was
9:02
still producer, he wanted as much the cast from that in the
9:06
show as he could, and he want the dynamic of you do, the, the
9:09
interpersonal relationships reflected in Doctor Who thought
9:14
it would, it would improve. Of the storytelling.
9:17
And again, I think Doctor Who characterization is usually just
9:21
like a little bit, heightens a little bit above and like I'm
9:25
trying to think of a really fat like, but been rather heretic
9:28
and I'm stuff in the rebar operation.
9:32
You know, it's a little hot in is touching as how, it's amazing
9:36
character. Well, but it's a little Cut
9:38
Above the norm because it's him talking about the stars and
9:42
space and all of this whereas in this the character work is very
9:45
Naturalistic which is was gonna say you and me now, you know, we
9:50
shared the hardwork tail, you enjoy these dynamics of having
9:55
the the guy in charge who is terrible with people very
9:59
competent at his job. But polling at managing people,
10:04
then you've got the quite smooth, sort of engineer van,
10:07
lutyens is very critical of him openly.
10:11
And they're in have a hostile relationships.
10:14
You've got the fella with the moustache.
10:15
Who's trying to smooth it over all the time?
10:17
Yeah. And you've got Harris who brings
10:19
his domestic life in his domestic problems to work with
10:22
him all the time. Yeah my wife maybe that's why
10:26
we've brought our god. Look I'll deal with this all the
10:29
time at work what other one watching Doctor Who I couldn't?
10:32
Yeah it's not Escapist enough but again it is different isn't
10:38
it? Different from what we normally
10:40
see ya and what's her face coming along I think thank you.
10:45
It's again, what's her name? The my goodness.
10:49
Megan Jordans, she makes the story.
10:53
Oh, matriarchal woman who comes in?
10:55
And just basically says, look, you're you're all useless.
10:58
I'm taking over your there and I like that, especially this era
11:02
is quite good. There's always at least one
11:05
strong female character in each story, which is sort of lost for
11:10
a lot of the 70s, but she could have come in as like, I know you
11:14
men, you know, I'm taking of, but she's got a previous
11:17
relationship with Robson, so she's invested in, you know,
11:24
getting him, help making him. Well, she's that.
11:27
I've been, there's a thing I think where he's in bears and he
11:31
mumbling and bumbling and she's going Robson told to me, you
11:34
know, I want to help you and all this.
11:36
It's really nice stuff. Yeah.
11:38
And she's a flawed character, just like the others that are
11:41
bit where she has a go at her secretary and On the bus, I'm
11:46
sorry, but we need to be better get on.
11:49
I am. And his boys are back to
11:50
business, but she, you know, she lets the facade slip, she
11:53
forgets her professional sales. She has a goal, she apologized,
11:56
and she moves on and, and, you know what?
11:58
We love it, cuz she instantly believes the doctor and sees
12:01
that doctor can find Solutions. Whereas Wilson's been like, you
12:04
know, I'll who is this shambolic idiot, come on my base, you
12:09
know, where she's just like, no, give us some spice, you know,
12:12
later she just goes, you know what the doctors been, right?
12:15
So far. Far, she's scarcely even had any
12:17
Crossover with her at that with them at that point and
12:19
effectively like we love the doctor.
12:21
So this guess Carriage Earnest. Trust the doctor it's like and
12:25
Travers in web of fear or Gemma in the weeding space.
12:30
Yeah definitely got. I think that's a particular
12:35
skill of the second doctor. It's the he disarms women.
12:39
Well, that was a particular skill or Patrick troughton as
12:42
well. Yeah, yes, apparently.
12:44
So yeah. The families, he officially had,
12:48
you know, by the time we pass but it was quite a few you know.
12:50
Oh well I mean I remember somebody job scenery teacher
12:54
kept heart attacks as a hobby later on in his life and I think
12:57
in between that are probably setting up, another family would
13:00
be, but you know what I mean? Look at him.
13:04
I mean, looking physically, he's so Charming.
13:07
He's so disarming. Oh yeah, absolutely.
13:10
I went and when you see picture head shots of him when he's
13:12
special, and he's really young. When he was younger quite a
13:17
rugged, beautiful man. Yeah, doctors before their time.
13:28
Okay. So now it's roughly was not
13:31
under the influence now though, is he or is he going at the
13:33
input? He's about to be under the
13:36
influence. But you know another thing is
13:39
really effective is as ever and I will bang on about this a
13:42
million times, the use of sound effects.
13:43
So that heartbeat That's pumping, that's just something
13:47
sort of Insidious and oppressive about a whole, isn't it?
13:51
And especially something that always gets me is the sound
13:58
quality of these 60 stories. There's something about Mono and
14:02
analog. Manipulated sounds digital
14:07
doesn't it's like clean, isn't it?
14:10
Ah. Yeah.
14:11
When the signs are almost organic or so unearthly you can
14:15
place it. That's what's so brilliant about
14:18
the early doctor. You same defects, you know, I
14:21
want to always gets me isn't in this story.
14:23
Although there are some great sound effects in this story,
14:25
it's the noise of the white robots in the mind robber, my
14:35
spine, or the noise of the Cyber Invasion.
14:40
Oh yeah. The weird that there's there's
14:42
no incidental music in episode 6.
14:44
Cliffhanger. It's Start pulsing that repeat.
14:49
Yeah, terrifying. But I there's a reason in
14:55
variables that fyw Simpson uses that heartbeat Motif because
14:59
there's something very reactionary that we have to a
15:05
heartbeat you know, the four of its stopping.
15:09
Yeah. And it's sound is all I think
15:12
it's always been really important to Doctor Who and even
15:15
now I like, The fact that the series tries to do things with
15:20
sound that are unconventional or to try and take advantage of new
15:25
technologies. So having episodes like, You're
15:30
not hide knock knock, that's what I'm thinking.
15:33
Yeah. And that was was that not
15:35
presented in a special Stereo by Oral?
15:40
Yes, it works. Yeah.
15:41
And yes, the fact that doctor who still use his pioneering
15:45
techniques and tries to use things to its Advantage.
15:48
I mean, back in back in the day, I mean, I've said the how good
15:52
this looks intently snaps, but back in the day didn't always
15:55
have the budget to realize things as effectively.
15:59
Perhaps they want to but those sound effects, go a long way.
16:03
Oh absolutely. And I think when Dairy often
16:07
stories particular like Fury from the deep, there are not
16:10
wanting to show the monster too much, they're not want, you
16:13
know, it's about the building up of the atmosphere and the
16:16
tension you're getting hints of everything and sound and your
16:22
the combination of sound and glimpses of things.
16:26
Let's your imagination fill in the blanks.
16:28
Which is probably why things like this live on.
16:31
In the memory, we're a stories where you might have the monster
16:34
up front and center. If it's not effectively
16:36
realized, it's immediately laughable or it diffuses any
16:40
tension or drama from a situation?
16:43
Yeah, great. Well, like the Merkur this
16:46
Garrison, something like that. Yeah, Penny loses it and it's so
16:50
much as she because you've got things like Scaris in as Ed is a
16:53
good example because when you compare it to the zygons
16:56
themselves and how they realized is instant That episode 1.
16:59
Cliffhanger quite a lot of that's done through sound.
17:02
Effects is neither discipleship and the control was a normative
17:05
organic. Yeah you know I got it I'm going
17:10
to say this very often. So enjoy the moment.
17:12
I've got it wrong a second ago, I said it the the use of the
17:15
hobby is because the fear of its stopping Ashley.
17:18
It's not, is it? They did it gets faster and
17:20
faster in this far and it's that sort of panic and fear of your
17:24
heart going, a hell of a, right and that sequence with Maggie
17:27
Harris and Overlapping Mouse of Oak and quill, the heart rate is
17:31
faster, and faster, and faster. And that sound, it gets deeper
17:35
as well. Boom, boom, boom, you really if
17:39
you almost feel it. Really really very who is this
17:42
who plays Harris? I can't remember.
17:47
I'm sure normally I would write down all the beans and people
17:49
but he's somebody that I don't a lot of the cast Avenue I
17:53
recognized from other things. I think it's pretty effective.
17:56
He's a little warning but I do believe.
17:59
Yeah, I sort of for I'm going to look at while we're talking.
18:04
So I must leave you to talk on your own for a second.
18:06
Okay. Of course okey-dokey, what am I
18:08
going to see? I think we're all this is the
18:11
next moment where the doctor Victoria's.
18:14
Hinting that she's not happy with this lifestyle and you've
18:16
got the doctor saying. But but it's the spice of like
18:20
this and it's just one. She says, just once I wish we
18:24
could go somewhere nice bar. And I like the fact that it
18:28
throws up the fact that this isn't right for her and the
18:35
doctor thrives on it was nice because it bookends a sequence
18:40
that they have in term of the Cybermen where she's just Going
18:44
on this adventure at that point and he's like, no, no one else
18:47
can do what we're doing. How here she's basically saying,
18:51
I don't want to do what we're doing.
18:53
Yeah, and he's initially sold the concept traveling with him
18:57
during and now she basically she wants to return it.
19:02
Well, we've just been through all six episodes of the web of
19:07
fear. It's bloody terrifying.
19:10
Yeah, and that's a size 14. A lot of that story.
19:13
She's on her. Our own actually, she's running
19:16
around these tunnels in near Darkness, trying to have eat
19:20
being shot at or caught in web or attacked by a yeti.
19:24
She's got no support, no, but no, no network to rely on.
19:28
So I can in fact, tell you that Roy, Spencer played Harris and
19:33
I'm sure all you can remember him from his very memorable role
19:36
as manniac in the arc. Really, how I don't remember him
19:42
either, but I can't picture him at all.
19:48
I smell good. I need to go watch the ark
19:51
again. Don't strange about this Uncle
19:55
Joe's. I'll keep saying about all the
19:57
different ways of this is different from all the others is
20:00
like, it's a setting, like is a base Under Siege and they say,
20:06
older, phones rolling up the beach and all that, but in this
20:09
vast way. So no.
20:10
Actually, that's not an anomaly at all.
20:11
What am I talking about? The, the monastery is in the
20:15
middle of the Himalayas, but God says, the house in the ice
20:20
Warriors, in the middle of a bloody D Bar glass.
20:23
Yeah. Okay.
20:25
So the wide expanse is outside of.
20:27
I suppose. It's the horror coming.
20:30
Sort of over the hill. Isn't it too?
20:32
Warm a space. That's what scary.
20:35
Yeah, something that's looming and it's just on the boundary
20:37
and you've not really got any control over it.
20:40
Oh my God. Mark, here we go.
20:41
This is the bit. What is it?
20:44
She says, because I know she goes, you know what you must do,
20:47
but she said something before that and I can never figure it
20:50
out. I've got the subtitles on so
20:55
maybe maybe not like that any second now.
21:01
I'll know I didn't have a modern.
21:04
I'll never never know. There is little time.
21:06
You know what we must do? Oh, there is little time.
21:10
Is that what is that? Now they're working in cahoots.
21:15
So why should you heading off into the sea like this?
21:20
Plot convenience. She's done with now.
21:23
Yes, essentially if you are going to write somebody out.
21:27
Yeah. Then this is a memorable way to
21:30
do it. Absolutely give those completely
21:34
dumbfounded. I mean what I just witnessed is
21:36
she did, is she, what's the situation?
21:39
What I mean, she's alive at the end of this.
21:40
So happy, thanks. Yeah.
21:42
Effectively she has just committed suicide, ah, to all
21:45
intense purposes and that doesn't get resolved and for
21:49
another A little episode 6 that's taking another box
21:53
because she's committing suicide against her will.
21:56
Uh-huh. Yeah, it's really really quite
21:59
frightening. It's quite Grim.
22:01
Really. And like I said, she has been
22:03
portrayed as a woman. Running a household.
22:08
So this effectively could be your mother.
22:10
Yeah, and she's taking over and now she's killed herself.
22:15
All these kids at home that could identify with that.
22:18
I drive the Next Room lat. Me.
22:20
There is no right, mom, or some people might actually willingly
22:24
push them into the sea. No, I've come to the conclusion,
22:29
you know, talking about this story over you.
22:31
It's a rather large talking about these ones where I'm not
22:33
too sure about it because it's, it's quite nice to figure out
22:36
the puzzle along the way. Yeah.
22:38
I think we're learning as we go. I have to say, I'm coming to the
22:41
conclusion. It could be the fact that I'm in
22:43
your company, though, that could be the thing that makes this
22:47
different. I do actually rather like this.
22:50
Maybe you just like it, it's an app.
22:52
Don't take nothing to do with me.
22:55
I'll try to book end. This thing with a compliment or
22:57
I this episode and you've got away from both of them and was
23:03
three more episodes to go. I'll get you yet.
23:05
Oh, gold. But listen, we are going to have
23:10
a short break now or wait between episodes, three and
23:13
four. We shall lay is that Mark?
23:19
Because this is six parts Long and it's past my bedtime now.
23:23
Only sigh heart and Fraser Gregory and Jason Thompson had
23:28
been mad enough to record six episodes in one night.
23:33
That's crazy. No, I couldn't do that.
23:35
I, I'm typically quite a quiet person.
23:38
I can't talk for such lengths of time.
23:41
I had a conversation. You on the phone the other day
23:42
for about two and a half hours. Well you talking about exactly.
23:47
I think some people stimulate conversation Station other
23:49
people. Less.
23:52
Well, I'll put nearly 500 episodes this thing out now.
23:55
I better bloody soap a stimulating conversation.
23:57
What? A bit it's just clearly ask you.
24:01
But we shall reconvene for the latter half of this.
24:03
I've yet to watch the episodes with the production notes on the
24:06
commentaries on like Hawaii, but I'll just say for now.
24:10
Thank you very much. This has been a hugely enjoyable
24:12
experience. It has indeed.
24:15
And we shall reconvene soon, was it the time is now, you know?
24:21
What you must do? I'll cut it there.