Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 286. The Impact Arc Framework: Unleash the Power of Storytelling - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE

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286. The Impact Arc Framework: Unleash the Power of Storytelling - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode is sponsored by Feathr. Feathr provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how feather power their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly$6,000 In just one day.
• 0:19
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:20
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:21
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
• 0:24
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:42
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Hey, Becky, what's happening?
• 0:56
  Becky Endicott: Hey, John, and Julie, happy Friday to everybody out there. So glad you came back.
• 1:01
  Jonathan McCoy: y\\ou did come back, you are on week two of our little mini series called the Impact Arc. And this is like a heartbeat, we're really excited to kind of tie up this year's first season of the year with this framework, because it's this kind of secret sauce that we have figured out in our years of development of how you really build something and kind of build anything that has stickiness and people really gravitating to it. And either that's raising a lot more money, or it's building a bigger, stronger movement. And so you're on week two of this series, I want to say, if you missed last week, you probably want to skip back a couple episodes and go find it because we really unpack this formula that has three pieces. And it's this idea of using staging, storytelling and syndicating that's going to really revolutionize whatever you're working on. And we went deep on staging last week, which is this whole idea of asking the right question, the bigger, better question, and getting all the pieces right and kind of having a lot of the preliminary swell, that setting you up for to what today's conversation is.
• 1:59
  Jonathan McCoy: And today, we are diving deep into storytelling. And if you hang around these parts much, you know, we love this topic.
• 2:05
  Jonathan McCoy: And there's a reason for it.
• 2:07
  Jonathan McCoy: Because it's a way for people to really engage in your mission and actually get to learn from your mission to storytelling just has so much at the heartbeat of what we do. And so that's where we're going today so just spoiler alert.
• 2:20
  Becky Endicott: And I just have to say, it appears I'm setting myself up in the most self righteous way as the resident storyteller here, I mean, we have just seen how story changes lives, it changes the trajectory of a mission. Because when you allow yourself to go in and tell not just the pretty stories, not just the ones that move hearts, but the true stories, the vulnerable stories, the ones that maybe you're a little intimidated to share. People see themselves in those stories, they see struggle, they see uplift and rise, they see like, hey, I want to be a part of either eradicating that, or making that better for somebody else. And it's one thing to talk about your needs. But it's an entirely different thing when you wrap a human around your needs and their lived experience. And you give them color in a way that I mean, like you put details around them, you put micro moments that may seem like a little blip on the radar, but that could be the linchpin in hooking somebody to come in.
• 3:28
  Becky Endicott: And so we're going to be unpacking how we do that today, because we think vulnerable storytelling, ethical storytelling, giving dignity to the person who's sharing and awakening ourselves that we don't have to have this like Norman Rockwell picture of our nonprofit. In fact, if we can actually show some of the dingy or parts of our house, you know, the junk drawer that everybody like is afraid to open up. It's like, actually, when people get in there, they're like, I have a junk drawer too. Or I can connect to this. And so today, we really want to talk about how storytelling is more than just the story. It's connecting the heart of a prospective donor, or a volunteer or someone who's just a lurker, to your mission to your campaign to your projects. It comes in so many different forms. I think a lot of people think story is a written story, or a video, I think a photo can be just as powerful a text, there are so many mediums that you can use that will remind people about the reasons that they choose to give. We just think storytelling at its core is a way that you invite others into whatever it is that you're building. It's a way to humanize. It's a way to add texture and grit. It adds real world examples into what you're building. And that invitation might just be one of the most powerful things that you have not stepped into yet.
• 4:57
  Becky Endicott: So if our goal is telling really powerful stories that move people to action. We think it's got to start with bringing dignity to the people and to the person that sharing. And so we've had a lot of conversation about ethical storytelling on this podcast, it was one of our eight trends that we saw lifted for the sector in 2022. And we just think it's an innate human experience. And if you think of any movement, any product, any social change that has happened in the world, it likely started because of the power of storytelling. And John, I just had have some of these floating at the top of my mind, like Pete Frates with the Ice Bucket Challenge and what happened with Pete going through the ALS journey. I think of the school strike and school strike impact for the environment with that Greta Thunberg started, where she says, I want you to panic.
• 5:52
  Becky Endicott: And it started the rise of an environment, environmental movement, I think of George Floyd, and Breonna Taylor stories that gave power to the Black Lives Matter movement, there is so much here, and it's baked in lived experience. And it's a way to bring people who believe in the same things that you're perpetuating, with your mission, into the story in a gentle way that feels human, and feels like a non pressure situation. And that is what we're here for in this new modern age of fundraising.
• 6:24
  Jonathan McCoy: I love it. It just really does build on the staging, because you've got the groundwork, right. But as you lean into this phase of like, what do I do with the people that were trying to move along, story can move people and it does move people. And so I do want to put a pin Becky's already brought up ethical storytelling, I love this. And this is a part a place that we wanted to camp out on this season, specifically, because there's just some core tenets.
• 6:47
  Jonathan McCoy: And we'll lift some episodes throughout that you can go back and dive deeper into. But it's really baking dignity at the core of how you tell stories.
• 6:52
  Jonathan McCoy: And consent is a huge part of that clarity, being really honest, and vulnerable to the point of someone wanting to be vulnerable also. And, you know, it's not lost on us that we work on the frontlines of some of the hardest stories to tell. And so we do have to step into this in a really careful way. Words matter. The labels that we put on, people deeply matter. And we're not too prideful to sit here and realize in this podcast, having a platform, we're learning every day, we have to have that posture of learning, because we can be saying things in ways that are harmful or hurtful to people.
• 7:27
  Jonathan McCoy: And the same is how we storytelling, our nonprofits, like we have to be examining.
• 7:33
  Jonathan McCoy: That's the power of doing this in community. And so all this conversation around storytelling is really built on this idea of ethical storytelling. So I think is kind of our final tone setting around this is like it's a place to really get curious, you know, be okay to sit and have some uncomfortable but good conversations to just make sure that we're going about this in a way that's lifting dignity, and furthering your mission as a result of that if you're trying to end some kind of horrible systemic thing, part of how we communicate and build the language around it can be part of that solution. So I think it's a it's a really powerful thing to step into.
• 8:07
  Becky Endicott: I liked that you said, getting curious about storytelling, because I think there's all of us out there have use story in some capacity, whether it's in a direct mail, whether it's on our website, but today, we're just asking you to dive deeper into it. Because if you start with staging, and you're really teeing up your campaign, your project, whatever you're working toward, in a way that leads to storytelling, getting curious, something really magical happens. The solicitation email doesn't have to simply be a solicitation. It can be a warm, you know, a warming if you add that story in. So we're looking to diversify message, make it be humanizing. And so let's dive into like tactics. How do you do this? How do you capture story?
• 8:49
  Becky Endicott: What are the right words and mediums? The first place I want to start is you need to work to build a culture of storytelling at your organization. And so what do I mean by that? I mean, that story needs to be threaded in everything, because people will come for the story. But they will stay for the impact.
• 9:08
  Becky Endicott: And for the giving, because they want it to keep going. They want to keep hearing those stories over and over. This is captured.
• 9:15
  Becky Endicott: So simply by every single time you share a story no matter what medium, you're sharing it and have a little link or a place for someone to share that says did the story resonate with you tell us why? Or better yet, share your story of connection to our mission, and we would love to honor it and you in the space, then you add a share button, you know that links to your general inbox or to a story email inbox. You know, maybe these stories can literally default if you have a form on your website, if it links somewhere to a spreadsheet where you can collect all of them and that way, you have a storytelling arsenal that is neat, tidy and all in one place.
• 9:54
  Becky Endicott: And when your CEO comes to you Yes, this happened to me in my first job quite often, we had a great leader in our first job, who always threaded storytelling and everything. And he realized he could capture the audience's attention. Anytime that he was the CEO of this big foundation, if he didn't just go right into his comments, he wouldn't even say, you know, Hi, I'm, here's my name, he would say, let me tell you a story. First thing, he would come up, and he would share a story of typically a student, a scholarship recipient at our university, and he would give micro details go back talking about their hometown, their lived experience. And once that story was over, he went into the delivery of all of his points that he was making. But he already had everybody hooked, because they were already thinking about this little kid from this rural part of Oklahoma, who was struggling mightily to be an engineer, and they had all of these things in front of them. That's what they're channeling as they're listening to the, this is where we need your help. It can be such a powerful driver. So I really want you if you're setting aspirational, high level goals, think about how to build a culture of storytelling at your organization. So step one, is just ask ask people for this, put it in all of your mediums, you know, your boomers may not want to respond on email or through social media have a way for them to write in have a way to like put a BRE that people can return a BRE is a business reply envelope, if you're sending a mailer, you have to get creative about how you're going to capture it. I think you can capture this stuff in person. And it's really about trying stuff. I know you guys like that really technical term that we have, and that we're for good community, you know, but I want to ask you to these questions sound familiar to you?
• 11:47
  Becky Endicott: Oh, we're a small organization, we really don't have the capacity to capture that we don't really do videos, I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know how to interview someone. I'm not a professional.
• 11:58
  Becky Endicott: I'm not a creative. I'm not a writer, y'all storytelling is a team sport. And if you are someone who can listen, and you have the ability to make time and space for it, it can be really transformational.
• 12:12
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, all this has been so good advice. So we're gonna throw some tips, because if you are feeling overwhelmed, you know, interviewing is just as simple as getting curious and creating space and listening. Like, I think that's the most important thing. So okay, jumping on this idea of culture. Because, you know, we also love to talk about culture. And I love that you challenge be about just threading storytelling is culture, what does that really play out at? I mean, it looks like at board meetings, you're sharing stories, which is also equipping your board to be able to tell the stories, but it's at events, it's during speeches, or maybe opportunities to speak in the community. It's always equipping people with what's happening. But it's also creating entry points for people to share. And so you know, our core value of everyone matters.
• 12:52
  Jonathan McCoy: This is why this is such a team sport, because everybody has a different lens, and you're trying to build a movement of people with different lenses. So that's really why everybody's story matters. And so as the receptionist at your front of your organization, she may be the first or he may be the first to have years on the ground to understanding what somebody is coming in seeking services for that maybe part of the story. So creating this culture that we're always sharing, always lifting and celebrating as people are finding those stories can be really revolutionary. And so we also want to talk today about flexing our multichannel. And so it's definitely important to think about when you're capturing stories, to try to, to collect it in as many mediums as possible. And we do that with the podcast, you know, we don't have time to make like eight different clips of audio, and then video and then come back and write something. We try to do that all at the same time.
• 13:42
  Jonathan McCoy: And so if you begin with the end in mind asking the bigger, better question, which is what impact arc is all about, you're trying to fuel and ignite people. Well, not everybody is going to read your blog, and not everybody is going to follow you on Instagram. So by capturing stories and all these different mediums through multi channel, it allows you to deliver the stories in a lot of different places with the least amount of effort. And so it allows you and we're gonna go really deep on this with syndication next week.
• 14:07
  Jonathan McCoy: But this idea of just planting the seed to think how can I capture this in multiple ways is going to be revolutionary as as you kind of build tourists to come.
• 14:21
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, this episode is presented by Virtuous and they just happen to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, Virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than a nonprofit CRM. Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Some, like virtuous may be a fit for your organization. Learn more today and virtuous.org or follow the link in our show.
• 15:44
  Becky Endicott: Hey, friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level, but kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to Feathr. Feathr us an amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience, wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for$300 in ad spend, their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With Feathr a small amount of ad spend can go a long way, learn more about their solutions for nonprofits at feather.co. That's feather without the last e dot co. Now let's get back to this amazing conversation.
• 16:46
  Becky Endicott: And we want to give you like some practical like, here are the mediums like these are channels that you could explore.
• 16:53
  Becky Endicott: And I want you to think about, have we even thought about putting storytelling or pulling storytelling from these mediums?
• 17:00
  Becky Endicott: Yes, it's print. Yes, it's video and photo and email. It's also social media. It could be podcasting or doing some audio with someone it's texting. It could be crowdfunding, you could be grabbing it from peer to peer fundraisers, there are so many ways that you can deliver story as well as capture story. And I think if you look at it, almost like a revolving door, it can come in and go out in any of these different mediums than that is how you bake in a culture of storytelling. And the other thing that I would say is, I don't want you to think one dimensionally about storytelling, because I think there was a time in my career where I thought, oh, all the stories need to be coming from the people who are benefiting from our services. Not necessarily, there is a mosaic of stories that exist within your mission, and making sure that you sort of map out, where are all those audiences? Where could the stories come from?
• 17:57
  Becky Endicott: Yes, they're definitely the beneficiaries. The people who are the most changed by it on the, you know, on the receiving end are going to have powerful stories. But also, what about your program officers, your physicians, your professors, your youth mentors, your staff, your volunteers, your board members, your crowd funders, there, there is a massive amount of hands, voices and stories that are connected to your mission. And if you can get creative about how to capture them, you are going to build a community of voices of faces have lived experience where everyone can feel seen. And that's back to the ethical part of it. You know, we want everyone to feel from the highest level to the lowest levels of our missions, that their story really does tie in to create this movement that we're working to build. So I love all of that. And I just want to give one little pro tip to everyone out there that I have found to be very powerful right now that is of this moment. And it is right the way you speak. And for anyone that's ever hung out in the weird for good community like we are very irreverent in the way we speak.
• 19:13
  Becky Endicott: And the way that we're communicating in this digital age is just different, the buttoned up, corporate approach.
• 19:20
  Becky Endicott: I'm just so excited to see it in the far distance on the horizon sailing off, I hope it never comes back. Because there's something human about being able to text a donor something and then add an emoji on to it or, you know, being able to put in brackets like insert standing ovation, I do this a lot like with our writing, it gives again, a greater color, and picture to what we're experiencing, how it makes us feel and how it makes us activate.
• 19:53
  Jonathan McCoy: It's so good. So it's like, right, the way you speak or the way you text, you know, the emoji like just like brings it to life. So we want to give you a few more like just keys so you can feel empowered to really nail this part of storytelling. And just so so a couple of pro tips here is that you really want to employ this empathy and authenticity and vulnerability. And just you can do that by focusing on small details and what you just shared was so good because as we show it vulnerably we're going to connect like 1000 times more authentically, you know, like it all kind of feeds together is that as you start speaking more plainly, it's also going to connect more deeply. And you also want to like tell the unexpected, this would be the second one. So it's so difficult to say, Okay, it's time to get our executive directors to film their video share our board chair. And it's like, I'm not disparaging, they probably have incredible stories and their stories should be told like it matters. But you can't always default to that, because you're missing so much texture. And, and showing and modeling, that everybody's story is important.
• 20:59
  Jonathan McCoy: And every type of partner is important to cast vision, it's hard for people to become what they can't see, you know, and it's here. And so it's really casting this wider net for who is an integral player in your team, by the way that you feature stories. For our employee campaign example, you know, how we love this employee campaign that we talked about, that meant not putting the CEO, it meant talking to people in it, and talking to people who were part of the housekeeping team, and talking to everybody in the organization, nurses and doctors, it wasn't just white coats, it was everybody, because everybody has a story. And everyone has a passion. And we wanted to tap into that. And you've got to lean into that to really build the swell that we're right, you know, rally and I'm really excited to sit in here kind of cheering about today.
• 21:41
  Becky Endicott: I am and I love the tell the unexpected, because I think that's shocking. And when it's unexpected, it's scroll stopping, you will see everyone flipping through their phones scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, you see something that's different. It really does like kind of tweak you in a way that says what is that and I want to kind of double click on it. I think another thing is, is the importance of crafting the story arc, you know, we had Cheryl Miller Houser on who's just an incredible documentary filmmaker, and somebody who really believes in ethical storytelling and getting to the heart of the matter. And she gave this really simple formula, we use it often. It's three steps and craft. It's three steps in crafting your story arc, number one, make it human.
• 22:24
  Becky Endicott: Number two, show struggle.
• 22:24
  Becky Endicott: Number three, inspire through uplift. I mean, when you get down to its most basic form, that can be the formula for your storytelling. So if you're someone that's kind of like psyching yourself down, I'm not a writer, I don't know how to storytelling, this is a very basic framework to walk you through that. That can be simple. And it doesn't have to be minutes long. It doesn't have to be paragraphs long, I've seen very powerful stories that are in two or three sentences. That just make you want to double click on the link and learn the entire rest the back end of the story. I also think the another important key to nailing storytelling is activating the passion of your base by asking your base, those annual giving donors, your followers, people who are watching your mission, that could be volunteers, creating an opportunity for people to contribute their story in a variety of ways in a variety of places, is going to get you so much more than if you just went through one medium.
• 23:27
  Becky Endicott: And I just think think about the times people have said to you, I'd like to get your opinion on something. Most people kind of, you know, perk up a little and they dust off their collar.
• 23:37
  Becky Endicott: They're like, Yeah, I'll tell you my opinion, at least I know I do. And when you ask someone, would you be open to sharing your story? That's a very personal thing. And if they say yes, we've got to honor that.
• 23:47
  Becky Endicott: Allow them to come in, let's dignify the share, let's tell it ethically, let's nail that story.
• 23:55
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, it's all just kind of building and sinking together. But the big thing here too, is, you know, we've challenged you to think beyond just the tactic. And if you're doing that, and really thinking in a bigger standpoint, whatever you're writing for, or videoing for recording for think beyond this one campaign, this one appeal, because this story has so many legs, and we're going to talk a lot about this next week to just kind of set that tone. But fold it into other campaigns, you know, put it into different places and get a ton of life because have you spent a lot of time making a beautiful signature piece of content is going to set you up for so much more syndication.
• 24:34
  Jonathan McCoy: I think that's a great transition into this conversation we had with John Trybus a couple of seasons ago.
• 24:40
  Jonathan McCoy: He's the executive director and a professor at Georgetown University's Center for Social Impact communication. And John has just a wealth of storytelling knowledge and he dives into the data of it. And he lifted out sort of five essential building blocks of compelling storytelling and we wanted to lift them out for you all. And the first one is character. And these are reminders to you. A story is about a person capturing their character is going to be key.
• 25:07
  Jonathan McCoy: The second one is trajectory.
• 25:07
  Jonathan McCoy: The story can go in lots of different directions. So think about the way that you want to take it and the one that leads most directly to action and to dignity. The third one is authenticity. Yes, we've said this so many times, showing up as your true self with your yoga pants on in your zit cream on your face is going to actually endear you to people because We've all been there. And having a heart for authenticity and sharing the rawness of a story is going to connect. I think the fourth one is brilliant. It's action oriented emotions. How do you want people to feel when they hear your story? What's the what's the appropriate thing that you want them to go? And do? It's not enough just to tell a story. We need to get someone back again to our goal to move to action. The fifth one is hook. You got to have a hook in there. Why does this matter? Why does someone need to come in?
• 26:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Why does this mission need to keep going? Why does our work matter? Why does their involvement key to mission delivery? And the last one is the storyteller? Who should be communicating the story? Who are we giving dignity to? Are we letting the person whose story it is share the story? Do we bring in a narrator? Do we bring I mean, John, and I love the twofer we come in and we'd love to interview both people just as we ping pong off each other because John and I have different lenses on the way that we look at the world and the way that we want to uplift, you know, the impact uprising. I love that centering on who really story is to tell because that is the heartbeat of this ethical storytelling that we talk about. Because the their needs have to be prioritized.
• 26:54
  Jonathan McCoy: And you know, I love meeting founders and I love meeting leaders at organizations that are championing this and especially hearing when they've fought upstream for the dignity of their beneficiaries. It is like a story that we want to champion. So we don't have to keep having that same story be told. But I think of Becky Sraw.
• 27:09
  Jonathan McCoy: And we've shared this a couple times on the podcast to Becky Straw. Yeah, Becky Straw leads The Adventure Project. And you know, they work in developing countries around the world. And they specifically were working in Haiti in this, you know, global media team wanted to come and tell the story of poverty.
• 27:25
  Jonathan McCoy: And, you know, they'd connected with Becky. And when they got to in country, Becky was, you know, showing the story of empowerment, they're introducing her to this woman who had this beautiful home and she was kind of started this new chapter of her life, and she was optimistic and hopeful. And all these positive things were happening.
• 27:47
  Jonathan McCoy: And the media team got there.
• 27:47
  Jonathan McCoy: And they're like, this isn't the story we want to tell, like we want to show, you know, the brokenness and the homelessness and the struggle and all these things. So I mean, they left and went to go do another story to tell, you know, whatever that that bent that they wanted to do, but that he said, No, this is the story that I see. You know, I see empowerment in the people that we love and serve and that we're amplifying. And so she took that same story, and went to her community and said, Look at this beautiful picture of empowerment, look at what this looks like for this family.
• 28:18
  Jonathan McCoy: Look at this door that now, you know, this woman has on her house as a result of whatever investment and empowerment that's coming together. And her community rallied. I mean, they were sending emails, and overnight, they raised like$25,000, just from this really authentic, true, empowered storytelling. And that's what this is about, you know, that's what it's about, as we all kind of push this sector and push people to embracing true, authentic storytelling.
• 28:46
  Becky Endicott: I just love Becky Straw, she gets it. And I just hope this conversation has really empowered you to kind of dive into this. And we don't want you to go away empty handed, we never want you to go empty handed. So we've curated some resources for you. The first one is we've built you an ethical storytelling playlist in the show notes. And so we have covered this extensively on the podcast, because we think it is so critical to getting our missions right as we're connecting with others. So check out our show notes page, we've got definitely John Trybus in there, Cheryl Miller Houser, Becky Straw, and several others that will break this down for you. But we've also shared a resource from Jordanna Merkin, who's with Voice for Good. And she has a free impact storytelling workbook, that will kind of lead you through how to capture impact and storytelling in a way that's ethical. And it's kind of linear, if you're somebody who is tends to be a little bit like me, and very type A, and I just want to go down the list and check all the boxes just to make sure that I haven't forgotten anything. So we'll put those resources in the show notes. But if you're a PRO member, we've already put together a pretty robust storytelling package within the PRO community with a lot of do this, don't do that, and yeah, we've got that there too, so go check it out.
• 30:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so we have we convinced you is kind of the second piece of the puzzle. As you get staging, right? As you get storytelling that fuels and fires and pulls everybody into this movement. You're categorically building something different. And it's different by design, and it's different for how it can really swell and I think that's what this is all about. And so I'm really excited to unpack the last piece of this, which is syndication. So that's going to be next week.
• 30:34
  Becky Endicott: activate all that you've acquired in the storytelling, and we're going to tell you how those stories can live on and on and multiply. So hang with us, and we'll see you next Friday.
• 30:53
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 30:55
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• 31:26
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom.