Latest / UK Column Radio / How To SAVE Truth And Justice- Detransitioners—with Edward Bartlett

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How To SAVE Truth And Justice- Detransitioners—with Edward Bartlett · UK Column Radio

0:07
Hello. I'm Charles Mallet with a UK Column interview, notes from which will
0:12
be posted at ukcolumn dot org. I'm joined by Edward Bartlett, who has
0:19
a career that's spanned working in three universities as an academic, also as a
0:24
regulator, and most recently as the founder of SAVE Stop Abusive and Violent Environments.
0:34
Now, Edward, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I'm
0:39
really pleased to have you here today. And what I thought we would do
0:42
is start with some general background and therefore, on that note, I'm just
0:47
going to read SAVES mission, which I think will give people a flavor of
0:53
what you are doing now, and then we'll work from a position of slightly
0:59
further back forward. So save's mission is to assure that every student and faculty
1:03
member across America is afforded their constitutional protections of fairness and due process, especially
1:11
in the context of sexual harassment and sexual assault. In particular, SAVE seeks
1:17
to assure that the Federal Title nine law is applied consistently and fairly to all
1:22
students, both male and female. So that's where you are now, and
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we will come back to the detail of that. But what I would like
1:30
to ask you is how is it that you got to that point within the
1:34
career that I've just described. What is it that's led you on this path?
1:40
Yeah, Hi, Charles, that's a great question, and I guess
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I'll just answer with a very simple answer. I grew up with a strong
1:49
belief in the values of truth and justice and fairness. I have never been
1:57
personally accused of any malefeasance, although I do have friends and colleagues who have
2:02
been falsely accused of domestic violence and sexual assault, and of course I have
2:09
great empathy for them. But I basically believe very strongly in that truth and
2:15
justice are the values that must carry our societies forward for a better future.
2:23
Yes, I think that will be absolutely the audience will will perceive to be
2:29
the case. And yet we see that sort of the subversion of exactly what
2:31
you're talking about, truth and justice. So in the academic environment, for
2:36
example, how have you seen that change over time? So, yes,
2:43
Charlie, as you mentioned, I have had baclay appointment at three different universities,
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including one of them was a full time teaching position teaching and research that
2:54
goes back a number of years ago, and I mikes variance then was very
3:00
positive. What's happened in the last five years or so in the United States,
3:07
and I believe elsewhere around the world, is that universities have lost sight
3:12
of their mission to promote truth. As you know, many universities have the
3:17
Latin version, veritas have that as part of their motto. But they've lost
3:24
sight of that in favor of a variety of Marxists inspired concepts like inclusion,
3:32
diversity, equality, and those concepts may or may not be consistent with notions
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of truth and fairness and justice. Absolutely, and you've gone straight to the
3:46
hospital because I was going to quote to you from your website in which an
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article about what we will come onto the de transition A side of it concludes
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with this sentence. Future historians will marvel how near a Marxist ideal ignited a
4:00
global gender hysteria, giving rise to the most egregious examples of medical malpractice in
4:05
recorded history. Before we get into the detail of that, you talk about
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universities having lost sight of these principles. But is that the case or have
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they been made to lose sight? And if so, how well? They
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have not been coerce in the legal sense, but they've been swept up into
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let's call it a narrative, a narrative that his Marxist inspired And let me
4:33
explain that I, if I may, Colonel Marx was not concerned only with
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eliminating economic disparities. He actually wanted to remove all social disparities or social differences,
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and one of those in particular is that he was wanted to eliminate differences
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of biological differences or distinctions between men and women. Well, what better way
5:01
to do that than to simply declare that there is no such thing as sex
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per se. It's all about gender identity, and there's there's you know,
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the number varies from person to person, but there's over fifty different gender identities
5:19
out there, and you can take your pick, you can change your gender
5:24
identity at will, and on it goes. So that's the narrative that that
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has swept not only the United States, but also the United Kingdom, Europe,
5:35
Australia, Canada, and elsewhere. So, yeah, universities have been
5:44
caught up in this Marxist inspired narrative. And in your well actually either professional
5:49
author personal life, do you do you remember what it was that convinced you
5:55
that this was happening and that it was a sort of concerted effort. And
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what is it that set you off into thinking that this really is a change
6:02
that is happening and shouldn't be. I'm not sure I can point to one
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one incident or event, Charles, but I've always been very interested in studying
6:14
the history of communism, the study of study of socialism. I've read a
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number of books. There's a book called titled Read Feminism, Read Feminism that
6:26
documents is written by a feminist. It's a thoroughly documented, you know,
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you know, well written book that documents all the way from Karl Marx to
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the present day how Marxist ideology has become as essentially turned into feminist ideology.
6:48
Part of the reason is that Charles, is that Marxist realized that this this
6:55
this theme about class struggle was not being very well receive. It turned out
7:00
that that, you know, at that time, the Industrial Revolution had hit
7:06
the UK and the United States, and it turned out the middle class we're
7:11
doing pretty darn well and we're improving economically. So this this this claim about
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class struggle did not resonate. So Marxist realized they had to change their tune.
7:24
So they said, well, let's talk about the patriarchy, let's talk
7:27
about how women are oppressed by men. So that actually became the new theme
7:34
that many Marxists began to take up. You know, you're articulating something that
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certainly the UK colin audience have seen, particularly in academia, not just in
7:45
the UK, but well beyond. How have your peer group, those that
7:50
you've worked alongside in all the various institutions you have worked in, how have
7:55
they responded to this and to your issues with it? I say that the
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response. First of all, let's clarify not all academics are are have been
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caught up in this this fervor, ideological fervor that swept the university, but
8:15
enough had become true believers in these in this narrative, and particularly college administrators
8:24
have been have been caught up in this, and they have received a good
8:28
amount of money to promote what was called DEI diversity, equity and inclusion programs.
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That's just one of several such theories or approaches that have been have swept
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the academy. So but the thing is that that people professors that chose to
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speak out against this narrative found themselves being shamed being ostracized. In some cases
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were actually uh removed from their positions because they were saying things that were not
9:05
politically correct. Can you think of parallels in earlier years? And obviously what
9:09
we're talking about now that on the sort of neo Marxist side of it is
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perhaps different from some of the areas that might have been considered to be controversial
9:16
in previous decades. Is there a comparison to be made or are we seeing
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something completely new now, particularly in that response of people being canceled or shut
9:26
down. So you're asking about comparisons to previous decades, I can't think of
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any previous developments that mirror what we're seeing now. I think that the level
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of capitulation, ideological capitulation is unprecedented in the academy. Remember that universities used
9:52
to pride themselves and because they were upholders of free speech. In fact,
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that's the whole theory behind tenure. Tenure is justified because oh, this is
10:05
basically provides a guarantee of that professors can speak their mind unfettered from political pressure
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as well. That you don't hear that theory being uttered anymore, because obviously
10:20
nobody believes it. So I think this is really an unprecedented shift in the
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in the in how universities operate, and it is deplorable. Well, you
10:31
speak about money, I mean, can you give examples of where you've seen
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money affect this situation with specific sort of personal and professional regard and where that
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money's actually come from. Well, we know, for example, that many
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US universities have what are called Confucius institutes. Confucius institutes funded by the Chinese
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government, and despite the very innocuous sounding name, the Confucius Institutes in fact
11:07
are promoters of Marxist ideology on college campuses. That's just one example. There
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are a variety of US federal programs that they are funded by the federal government,
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by the National Academy of Sciences, for example, that promote these ideas.
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Feminism has become has taken root on college campuses. I believe it's something
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that there are hundreds of what are called women's studies or gender studies programs at
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colleges and universities around the United States. If you look at the curriculum,
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it's all about ideology, it's all about patriarchal oppression, it's all. It
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is not science based it's ideologically based. It is, and I think that
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that sunds a very good sort of introduction of you know, your perspective on
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what it is that you've seen and seen obviously very clearly, and it would
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seem not necessarily a stark contrast all those around you. But but there's clearly
12:18
been an unwillingness to speak out for exactly the reasons that you present. Now
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let's talk about save and how that actually came to be. What was the
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sort of impetus that tipped you directly into into starting it? Yeah, thank
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you, Charles. So that the United States has a law called Title nine.
12:39
It's a federal law that bans sex discrimination in schools. That's, of
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course a very good thing. It was passed fifty two years ago, is
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ministered by the US Department of Education. So Title nine, though, has
12:58
become the vehicle by which political partisans have sought to politicize the university and schools
13:09
and even weaponize the issue of so called sex discrimination. So this is happening
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right now in the United States, literally as we speak. The Biden administration
13:24
in April released a new regulation stating declaring that's the definition of sex would from
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now on include so called gender identity. Of course, gender identity is anything
13:41
you wanted to be. Amazingly, the regulation does not even try to define
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gender identity because it can't be defined, but that became the law of the
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land. In April of this year. As a result, there were nine
13:56
different lawsuits filed against the Department of Education. Most of them came from different
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states like Florida, Utah, Texas, South Carolina, and others. I
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think there were a total of twenty two different states filed these nine lawsuits,
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and all of these lawsuits said that this is utterly ridiculous. You're saying gender
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identity is now part of the definition of sex, but you can't even define
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what gender identity is. And so now we have received three decisions, and
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literally just in the last two weeks, three decisions giving what are called temporary
14:43
injunctions against this new regulation in those respective states. Temper injection means sorry,
14:52
Department of Education, stop it. You can't push this anymore, at least
14:56
in these states that apply all under this this particular lawsuit. Okay, that's
15:03
very interesting and to a degree seems positive. However, use word temporary with
15:09
injunction is that simply sort of legal parlance, or does that mean that it
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could be reversed or it's any for a certain period of time. So yes,
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and yes. So the processes that these were decisions issued by what are
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these are federal courts called district courts, and so people of course can challenge
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that decision. They can appeal the decision to what's call it the appellate court.
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And so there are I believe there's twelve different appellate courts around the United
15:50
States. So yes, any one of these decisions, circuit court decisions can
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be challenged, and I'm sure will be challenged and will be taken to the
15:58
appellate life. So and then many predict that this will eventually end up in
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the lap of the US Supreme Court, which of course will be a very
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interesting place for it to end up. Now, typically in issues like this,
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it often comes down to who has the biggest budget, How how's the
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financial side of this looking? In effect in terms of the blackly outcomes in
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the in the largest share of control, I think we have every chance of
16:29
winning, every possibility of winning these losses because they are backed by every state
16:37
in the United States. Has it was called an attorney general who is the
16:41
lead law enforcement officer in that state. And these offices of the Attorney General
16:48
are are well funded, quite well funded. Not only that, there's a
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number of private groups like the Alliance Defending Freedom. They also are highly skilled
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and well funded, and they have been also involved in these lawsuits. So
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in the financial realm, we have no concerns, we have no worries.
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What's interesting, Charles, I'll just mention there was a decision just earlier this
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week, I believe it was on Tuesday, and it was it applied to
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I believe six different states, but not only and the judge granted this temporary
17:33
injunction. But not only that. One of the plaintiffs of this lawsuit was
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an organization called Moms for Liberty Right. Moms for Liberty has chapters all over
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the United States. Out of the fifty states, Moms for Liberty has chapters
17:51
in forty eight out of the fifty states. So the decision of the judge
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said, this temper injunction not only applies and they in the five or six
18:02
states, but also in every school where Moms for Liberty members have children around
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the United States. So we're sending shock waves in every way to stop this
18:18
ideological nonsense, and just going back to say, what role does SAVE have
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in particular with this case these injunctions. Yeah, and Charlette, I think
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I didn't answer your earlier question, so let me come back to that.
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So SAVE, I mentioned Title Line is the federal law to and sex discrimination
18:40
schools, and way back, going back to the Obama administration, Title Line
18:45
was being weaponized to require school colleges to establish so called disciplinary committees to adjudicate
18:56
allegations of sexual misconduct. All right, so you know, obviously being accused
19:02
of sexual misconduct is a big deal. But to have a group of people,
19:08
many of them are not lawyers or don't know what the meaning of due
19:12
process is, so to have these allegations adjudicated and investigated by rank amateurs,
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obviously it was hugely problematic. Hundreds of mostly men, were removed, were
19:33
told to leave their schools. Many of them filed lawsuits against their college,
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and there's been over six hundred such lawsuits, and more often than not,
19:44
these male students have won their lawsuits. So anyway, so say became very
19:51
involved in this because we were very concerned about the due process and free speech
19:56
issues implicated by this era policy. And so that's where we got started,
20:04
was with the due process issues going all the way back to twenty eleven and
20:11
just to move the hands of time forward. Then three years ago, three
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and a half years ago, President Joe Biden announced this new policy that sex
20:22
would include gender identity. Well, of course that broadened the entire debate and
20:29
it broadened the battlefield considerably. And so yes, we've been very involved.
20:33
We've established what's called the Title Line Network that consists of two hundred and twenty
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seven organizations all around the United States working to stop this nonsense. We've done
20:48
press releases, we've done press conferences, we've held lobbying events on and on.
20:56
So we're very active in terms of raising public awareness and the awareness of
21:02
lawmakers about the really the evil, I think we need to call it the
21:06
evil of this a new title line policy UK. Colum viewers and listeners will
21:11
be will be really fascinating to hear that, because I think that there's a
21:15
there's a huge amount of interest in listening to people who not just thinking about
21:19
doing something, but actually doing something and have done something and can can show
21:25
success perhaps or making a difference. Now that that is a hard thing to
21:30
achieve and I don't want you to undersell it. How how do you go
21:34
about that? I mean, you're talking about a massive network of people which
21:37
requires a lot of coordination, a lot of expertise, a lot of hard
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work. Where on earth do you start with that? We just start at
21:47
the beginning and and keep pushing the ball. So we organize this Title Line
21:52
network two years ago. It has continued to grow. We can added three
21:59
new members just last week. Again, it's over two hundred organizational members.
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The Tileline network has zoom calls are in two weeks, so we provide updates.
22:11
We also work with attorneys that are involved directly involved in these lawsuits.
22:17
So we're pushing the We're pushing the ball on several different fronts right now and
22:22
having a heck of a good time at it. It certainly sounds like it.
22:26
Now. Tell me about the way in which you know, having these
22:30
views and conducting this activity, how does that affect personal relationships, social relationships,
22:38
professional relationships amongst the people that are either helping you to do what you're
22:44
doing or indeed personally you know, we've talked about the clamping down of academics
22:48
who've spoken out, and there is a great feeling in society now, I
22:52
think on both sides of the Atlantic and elsewhere in the world. But if
22:55
you dare speak out against this, you know you are to be ostracized,
23:00
You are to be regarded as a sort of demon for saying such things.
23:03
So it's very difficult to sort of negotiate this territory without avoiding conflict. But
23:08
evident that you are managing to do that, how do you go about it?
23:11
And how has it affected those relationships? Yeah, Charles, Well,
23:17
I mean I don't go out out on the street corner and we have a
23:21
banner same title line as evil. I don't do that. But I am
23:27
obviously outspoken on the interviews and radio and so forth. We do our press
23:36
releases, and I'll just be candid with you because everything we say is factually
23:42
based. If you look at our press releases, every factual statement is referenced.
23:48
So anybody who who doesn't who question what we claim, look at the
23:53
citation decide for yourself. We approach everything in a scientific way, so I
24:00
have never been actually personally attacked for these views. So for whatever reason,
24:10
we continue to speak the truth. And Okay, here you are talking to
24:14
an independent media organization. But what sort of media coverage have you had,
24:18
either sort of corporate media, local media or independent or any sort of coverage
24:23
that you have support or indeed the opposite. What's the relationship been like in
24:29
that sphere. Well, candidly, we've done many interviews, especially radio interviews,
24:34
but also some have been on Skype and other internet based media productions.
24:45
Last month and we're talking about now, we're talking about actually the month of
24:48
May, I believe I did thirty two interviews, mostly with more local and
24:56
regional media outlets, a few with with national outlets so on online. You
25:03
know, speak the truth, The truth will make you free. Absolutely,
25:07
you are. You are quite right now? All of this really I think
25:14
not just reading between the lines, but looking at the mission statement that I
25:18
read out earlier. We're thinking about young people in particular, and we've talked
25:23
about the susceptibility of academic organizations in particular to effectively rode over where there's money
25:30
involved, in where there's there's sort of social and professional pressure. But with
25:34
children it's different. How do you perceive the sort of the management of the
25:42
indoctrination of children that is very concerning and worrisome because obviously title line, the
25:49
title line law up applies to students from all the way from grade one all
25:56
the way through the college. So yes, I think the word indoctrination is
26:02
the right word to describe what's happening. So yeah, that's a big area
26:08
of concern that school children are being. Just a few days ago, there
26:15
was a Pride Month parade in New York City where fully nude men were parading
26:22
down the street at a so called family friendly event. That really happened here.
26:30
So yeah, we're talking about a war, a culture war, right
26:37
before our eyes, and we simply can't choose to ignore it. It's happening.
26:42
We have to take sides, we have to speak out, we absolutely
26:48
do. I mean, I would imagine there is a similar situation in the
26:52
States, sent in the United Kingdom. In schools, even at the very
26:56
lowest levels, we see the introduction of topics to the classroom and the presentation
27:02
of situations that are given put in front of children, almost always involving,
27:10
you know, the iconography associated with this sort of ideology and movement. But
27:14
it's never qualified, it's never explained, it's just it's put in front of
27:17
them as though it must form part of their consciousness, part of their lives.
27:22
Have you been conscious of well, first of all that and the incredible
27:27
change that's been seen in that area, but also any ways in which academic
27:30
institutions have been pressured to stop doing that. I think we're right in the
27:37
middle, as I said, in the middle of a culture war. And
27:41
I don't think that the phrase culture war overstates what's happening right now. So
27:51
so, for example, with the elementary schools and elementary and secondary schools,
27:59
there's a real effort in the United States for parents who are concerned about these
28:04
issues to run to be a member of the school board, and in many
28:11
cases they have been entirely successful. So the culture war is playing out right
28:18
now before our very eyes. Funnily enough, you've just touched on something that
28:22
I was going to come to a little bit later. But I think perhaps
28:25
we deal with it now, which is exactly this. There will be a
28:27
lot of parents watching this with concern. I mean, partly concern about what
28:33
they do know, because what is visible and what is sort of being brought
28:37
home. But I think in greater part perhaps concern about what they don't know,
28:41
because of course parents aren't there in the classroom with children they don't know
28:44
what's happening, and maybe not even within the classroom, but in the sort
28:47
of wider school or academic environment. So are you involved? Is save involved
28:52
with networks of parents? You talk about the school board? I suppose really
28:56
where I'm going with this is, you know, advice for parents how to
29:00
deal with this area. Yeah, certainly so, And just actually to pick
29:04
up on your earlier point. For example, California recently passed a law saying
29:11
that if a child changes their gender, a school child changes their gender,
29:18
that the parents there's no requirement that the parents be informed. Imagine you know,
29:23
you know, being a parent and waking up one day and learning,
29:27
oh, your son or daughter has just changed their gender last week and you
29:32
didn't even know about it. That is now becoming a reality in California.
29:37
So so how do we how do we make this happen? Well, our
29:44
titleline network, as I said, now includes I believe it's two hundred and
29:47
twenty seven organizations all around the country. Some are our local level, some
29:52
are state level, some are national organizations all three levels. Some of them
29:59
are very specific to issues like free speech or due process or women's sports or
30:07
gender gender transitioning. Other groups have a broader focus. They're they're concerned about
30:11
the entire ball of wax that that title line is is uh visiting upon our
30:19
our families and our and our children. So each each organization, I mean
30:25
the power of the title line network is each organization you know, acts locally
30:30
in order to bring about the change locally or in some cases nationally. But
30:37
the point is it's a concerted effort. It's a it's a coordinated effort,
30:41
and uh, it's a it has a very strong grassroots level of activity.
30:48
Obviously, people will not have a very good idea of exactly what you are
30:52
by the folks only sort of ideological and principle basis for your campaign, which
30:57
is organized and has achieved a great deal already as part of that. Clearly
31:04
your focus is the United States. Have you been made aware of similar actions,
31:10
similar movements in other parts of the world that you've had any liaison with.
31:15
We do follow what's happening, especially in the UK, especially in Europe.
31:22
We're of course very familiar with the CAST report that revealed that the scientific
31:29
basis for this so called gender affirming care is specious and contradictory. So yes,
31:40
we are very aware of what's happening around the world, especially I mentioned
31:45
Europe, but also a lot of this has been pushed by the United Nations.
31:52
The United Nations, and I'll mention in particular two of their agencies.
31:56
One is the World Health Organization is actively promoting the so called gender the gender
32:02
agenda, and also the UN Women also it is promoting the gender agenda.
32:10
So we're seeing this battle taking place at every level, from the international level,
32:17
national level, and I'm down it is. It is really a culture
32:22
war before us, it is for sure, absolutely, And now you've you've
32:28
talked about the topic that we really do need to get to, which is
32:30
that of changing gender. And obviously within that is a minefield of terminology and
32:37
definitions and what do we really mean by it. I think, at you
32:44
know, the sort of end of the spectrum, we are talking about surgical
32:50
mutilation, modification of the of the human body, which has for the most
32:58
part had a very very destructive influence on the lives of a lot of people
33:01
and those around them. But this is something again that you have been dealing
33:07
with, specifically in terms of those that have regretted it and tried to do
33:12
something about it. So when you just explain a bit more about that side
33:16
of it. So, the gender transition process involves three steps. The first
33:22
step was called the social transition, in which the child assumes a new name,
33:30
the name of the opposite sex. The child is given permission to use
33:37
the bathroom of the opposite sex, and so that the child begins to think
33:45
of themselves as a member of the opposite sex. That's the social transition.
33:51
The second transition applies to kids who are pre adolescent ten years old eleven years
34:01
old. Around that age when they're given it's called the medical transition. They're
34:07
given hormone blockers or hormone drugs. So for girls, the hormone drug is
34:15
designed to deepen their voice. For biological males, the hormone may make the
34:25
voice more higher, more feminine, selling, So that's the that's the medical
34:31
transition. For for biological females, they may be given chest binders. A
34:37
chest binder is exactly what the word sounds like. It's it's it's cloth that
34:44
the that the girl wraps around her her breast area in order to reduce the
34:51
prominence of her breasts. So that's all of this is the is the medical
34:57
transition. The third phase of all of this, Charles, is what's called
35:00
the surgical transition, when the child undergoes goes under the knife, either has
35:08
their genitals removed or or in the case of a biological female, she may
35:16
be given a an artificial penis. So this is the surgical the surgical transition.
35:23
So that's how it's done. It's the details are rather gruesome, but
35:30
that's what's happening. I think to people of a certain generation, it will
35:35
be quite extraordinary to countenance that there are, as we're told, an increasing
35:40
number of people that are having this what is going on this pathway to the
35:47
point that they are they are anatomically altered, which will seem very difficult to
35:57
digest. And the thing that I think that is not talked about enough is
36:02
the responsibility that should be held by those that have enabled every part you're talking
36:10
about, So those that have encouraged the social transition side of it and have
36:17
put upon the children this ideology, and then of course with the drugs and
36:24
medical devices that enable the second part of the transition, and then the consultant
36:30
surgeons and the medical professionals, perhaps not quite the right word, but the
36:35
medics that are enabling this. But it seems certainly in the United Kingdom that
36:39
these people are somehow invisible and untouchable. Is there any sense of accountability or
36:46
pursuance of those enablers in this state? I would have to say that,
36:52
by and large, no, there is not accountability. But that said,
36:58
the accountability is beginning to be established. And the best example I can give
37:05
you, Charles, is we are now seeing medical malpractice lawsuits filed D by
37:14
kids who transitioned as children and then regret that decision, so they become what's
37:22
called D transitioners. And a number of those D transitioners have filed lawsuits.
37:29
I'm aware of fifteen such lawsuits in the United States. I'll add that two
37:35
of them were filed by family members. In other words, the D transitioner
37:40
committed suicide obviously is not able to file a lawsuit on their own behalf,
37:46
so the family files the lawsuit. So yes, we're seeing lawsuits. A
37:52
number of states in the United States have passed laws prohibiting any kind of surgical
38:00
treatments on kids, so called gender affirming surgical treatments. So there are now
38:07
a number of state laws. It's a very obviously a very controversial issue.
38:13
It is terrifically controversial, of course, but I think encouraging from what you
38:19
say that there is at least some progress in that area. Again, just
38:22
going onto the terminology side of it, because of course we're faced with this
38:27
extraordinary, I suppose raft of contradictions within which we're supposed to believe that there
38:34
are, you know, possibly infinite number of genders, which doesn't overlay at
38:40
all onto biology. And in a biological sense, there are two possibilities and
38:47
yet to affirm a change in gender, we see that people are to be
38:53
surgically altered, but of course that can only work in one of two way.
39:00
So but we're still left with the other forty eight or whatever it is
39:04
genders. So with that in mind, and you've just you just referenced the
39:07
word D transitioner, what what exactly does D transitioner? You know, what,
39:15
what is it the unbreanda term for. Is it just to do with
39:16
the surgical side of it, or is it to do with the social or
39:20
how broad is it? The word D transitioner in most cases applies to people
39:28
who actually went through the all three stages that the social, the medical and
39:34
the surgical transitioning, and and and came to regret that that transition. But
39:39
I'm sure there's people kids who have undergone just the medical or just the social
39:46
that they have changed their mind as well, but they don't get as much
39:51
publicity because their genitalia is still intact, and so the level of harm is
39:57
not as great. Interesting, And then of course we come back to the
40:00
money side of it, and it's an out of date statistic and I can't
40:04
remember, actually sorry, whether it came off the save website or somewhere else,
40:07
but I think that the you know, of course, there's an enormous
40:09
market here, not just in drugs and all the consulting and all the rest
40:15
of it, but in the surgery. And the figure I have from twenty
40:19
twenty one is that that industry in the United States was worth one point nine
40:22
billion dollars. I can only imagine that by twenty twenty four it's shot way
40:28
north of that. So the pressure from the sort of pharmaceutical medical complex,
40:36
so I imagine, is enormous. Of course, you're right, I can't
40:40
I don't know that piece of the puzzle. Well, so I can't give
40:45
you details but the dollar figure that you mentioned that is correct. We're talking
40:51
about enormous amounts of money. But I will say that as a result of
40:54
these lawsuits, we have seen at least two of these gender so called gender
41:01
clinics scaling back or closing down. So again we're seeing keeping all these these
41:09
clinics responding to the public outrage. They're responding to the lawsuits because obviously,
41:16
if there are a lawsuit, if they're malpractice premiums double and triple and quite
41:22
truple, they're going to realize this is no longer a money maker. I
41:27
think people will be wanting to learn sort of as we go, and I
41:30
we're just just clarify. When you talk about malpractice or malfeasons in a surgical
41:35
context, is that because well, is it one of two things or both,
41:40
Either that the surgery that's being conducted is not sort of satisfactory in terms
41:45
of what the effect was supposed to be, or is it that they want
41:50
to as a detransition and therefore the surgery was inappropriate in the first place,
41:55
Or is it is it both? What is the sort of technically the death
42:00
mission. So the key piece of these medical malpractice lawsuits is a lack of
42:06
informed consent, because obviously a child who is ten years old, twelve years
42:12
old, fifteen years old, they are not legally empowered to give informed consent
42:17
for any kind of treatment, any kind of surgical procedure on their body.
42:22
Let's take the example of a tattoo. All right, a child is not
42:27
able to give permission to get it, receive a tattoo. Only the parent
42:30
can give that permission. So obviously, in the case of many of these
42:37
so called gender affirming treatments, the parents are not giving consent. It may
42:42
be done in secret, and so it's the trial so supposedly giving consent.
42:46
So any procedure, any medical procedure, will without informed consent is a breach
42:53
of the standard of care. Okay, Yeah, understood that. That's a
42:58
very thorny area in the UK. This applies to sort of other treatments,
43:01
other pharmaceutical products and whatnot. In the way it sort of got around,
43:06
it's terribly one sided. Is what's called the Gillick competence and exactly this and
43:10
this we saw this being used with the COVID vaccines, in that if a
43:15
child was deemed by the medical practitioner to be competent. Even if it was
43:19
under age, the child could elect to have the treatment, but if it
43:24
was the other way about and the parents were keen that the child didn't,
43:29
that effectively, the child got to overrule if it wanted the pharmaceutical product,
43:35
but not the other way around. So you know, the perversion of all
43:37
these things is it is perfectly sort of awful. But I suppose, given
43:44
the finances and the pressures, entirely to be expected. But tell us more
43:51
about I suppose sort of how and whether you see the tide turning with regard
43:58
to all that we have been discussing. So I've mentioned several lawsuits already in
44:02
several judicial decisions. So yet another decision, judicial decision was made just yesterday,
44:12
July the third, and this related to a rule, a regulation from
44:21
the US Department of Health and Human Services that would require states to pay for
44:28
so called gender affirming surgery surgeries in their own hospitals. So this was the
44:36
rule that was published by the Department of Health and Human Services. No surprise,
44:40
it was opposed I believe by twelve different states attorneys general around the country,
44:49
And just yesterday, July third, the judge handed down his decision on
44:57
that lawsuit, upholding the lawsuit issuing a temporary injunction against this regulation, stating
45:05
that states had no obligation to pay for gender affirming surgery. But perhaps the
45:12
most amazing part of this decision is that even though the lawsuit only came from
45:19
you know, ten to fifteen states, the judge decided to make the decision
45:24
apply nationwide every state in the United States. All fifty states are now under
45:30
this new injunction. So bottom line is so bottom line, Within just the
45:37
last two or three weeks, we have seen I believe, four different judicial
45:45
decisions, all flatly unequivocally rejecting this gender identity nonsense and avoiding the federal regulation
46:00
that push this. So I have to say I'm optimistic right now we are
46:05
definitely on the right trajectory. It does sound very much like it now.
46:09
One thing I think we have to touch on is that the subject matter of
46:15
our discussion is essentially trauma for predominantly young people and those that are in relationships
46:24
with them, either as friends or family. You know, it's a really
46:28
really challenging area, but also for you and for your network, it's very
46:35
difficult material to be dealing with. And considering all the time, how do
46:42
you and those around you manage that You're saying, how do we manage the
46:45
controversies in our personal lives? Not so much the controversy, but the traumatic
46:52
nature of what it is that you're dealing with and in effect the abomination of
46:57
the lives of young people. You know, to be with that sort of
47:00
thing day in day out must be psychologically a very very wearing thing to do.
47:07
So I'll speak personally, nobody in my immediate family or even extended family
47:15
are involved directly involved in this issue, So so there's there's no psychological you
47:23
know, debates happening with them within my own circle of family. I do
47:30
know of other people, other families, for example, who whose daughters who
47:37
are involved in, for example, running track or field events, and all
47:43
of a sudden a biological male showed up in the competition. I do know
47:47
of those of those parents, so so they faced it at that level.
47:52
So and I remember talking to a mother last year, a mother from Tennessee.
48:01
She told me that at her daughter's middle school that one third of all
48:07
the girls had were considering changing their gender identity. Not only that, I
48:15
don't know if you've heard the term free, but there are no There's now
48:19
a trend among teenage girls to self identify as get ready for this, yet
48:25
self identify as cats, and so they are literally crawling around on all fours.
48:32
They have demanded that the bathrooms school bathroom have a kitty letter box in
48:38
order to relieve themselves. That's the degree of insanity we are seeing right now.
48:45
There's been talking of this in the UK, and I was thinking in
48:47
other countries as well. Now I am more than a couple of decades out
48:52
of date, but if I'd heard a story like that in my school days,
48:57
I would have assumed that they were taking the mickey out of the ridiculously
49:02
liberal system that had allowed people to identify as whatever it was in the first
49:08
place. But it is the inference here that this is actually a sincere movement
49:14
and people are genuinely doing this, or is there any kind of, you
49:19
know, youthful rebellion against it. Generally, this is not a This is
49:23
not done as a as a farce or as a satire. They general these
49:29
girls and they're all girls by the way. They believe, They truly believes
49:34
they're you know, at their core, that they are they are felines,
49:39
and you know they were born with a girl's body, but they're truly their
49:44
their their soul is feline and nature. I will mention though, there have
49:52
been cases where students have decided that the nonsense has gone too far. And
50:00
let me give you an example. This happened in the state of Connecticut in
50:05
January. Connecticut has a law that requires that every boys bathroom in schools have
50:13
a tampon dispenser. So at this particular school it was it was it was
50:19
called I blieve Brookside High School in Connecticut, they installed the tampon dispenser at
50:27
the boys' bathroom. Well, the boys decided they would have none of it.
50:34
Literally, within twenty minutes after that had been installed, the tampon dispenser
50:38
was on the floor. It had been stomped upon, essentially destroyed. So
50:45
we are seeing what we might call a Boston tea party moment happening around the
50:52
country. I think that will be something of a relief to people who are
50:58
watching and listening to their But that does introduce the idea of hope, because
51:02
I think it's very easy to have these sorts of conversations go through this type
51:08
of subject matter and find that fairly swiftly. You're in the pit of despair
51:13
because you think, what on earth, what is the world coming to?
51:15
And after all, this is the young generation who are supposed to be going
51:20
on within the next couple of decades to be leading all the industries and all
51:23
those sorts of things that keep countries going. But there must be hope.
51:30
Where is it that we're finding that hope? What resistance are you seeing amongst
51:35
that peer group and in the family context to put all this to one side,
51:38
and to go back to the first principles that you discussed at the start
51:43
of the interview, Well, we're seeing many evident, many areas of hope.
51:50
I've mentioned the bathroom dispenser incident in Connecticut. In the in the area
51:57
of women's sports, increasingly seeing girls female biological female athletes saying hell no,
52:06
I'm not going to go along with this charade. They simply refuse to participate
52:10
in the athletic event if they learn that there's a biological male in their competition.
52:17
Another example is more widespread. There have been numerous public opinion surveys,
52:25
and we have these all compiled on our website. Consistently, these surveys show
52:34
a strong majority of the public is opposed to this this gender identity nonsense.
52:39
When I say strong majority, I mean like sixty five percent of Americans are
52:45
opposed to the gender identity of ideology mention. I've mentioned the judicial decisions,
52:53
I've mentioned the laws. The likely new president of the United States, Donald
53:01
Trump, has already spoken out forcefully against gender identity. He has said that
53:08
he plans to to abolish the US Department of Education. So we see many
53:16
glimmers of hope. In many ways, we just need to hold on while
53:22
these perturbations are being worked out as we speak. And of course, I
53:28
think the one thing we've talked about a little bit is the bread of the
53:31
media and all this, because without the sort of constant and enormously biased mainstream
53:40
media coverage, I think we would struggle to believe a lot of what you've
53:45
said in terms of the fact that this ideology has actually been been able to
53:50
permeate so far through society, that people have taken such radical steps as to
53:53
want to change gender or indeed sex, if such a thing were possible.
54:02
Do you think that there will come a tipping point where media will retreat or
54:08
do you think the sort of the narrative path is such that that's not necessarily
54:15
possible. Well, that's a great question, and it does appear that the
54:20
media are the last, the last redoubt of the gender ideologues, so the
54:30
media will be probably the last ones to come around. So yes, we're
54:36
working on them as well. In what way just to give us a snapshot
54:39
of how any engagement with the media, or at least pressure on the media
54:43
is being worked out. Well, for example, we do press releases just
54:49
about every week. They're widely distributed to literally hundreds of media outlets. Our
54:57
press releases do not words. Our press releases are very straightforward and candid and
55:06
science based, I'll add, So we continue to apply the pressure on the
55:13
media and the media representatives to tell the truths. We started on the theme
55:17
of truth, and that's I think where we'll start to round off. But
55:22
before we do, I think there's no doubt that what you have said will
55:28
capture people's imagination because, as I suggested at the start, you are demonstrating
55:35
that something can be done and that there is a way to do it,
55:38
and people will want to learn more. So for those who are in the
55:44
United States, obviously to be able to get in touch with you and your
55:47
organization would be an obvious step. But for those in other countries, what
55:53
advice would you give with regard to setting out on this path to achieve what
56:00
you have begun to and have achieved. So I think my advice is to
56:05
again look at the look at the truth, follow the truth, read the
56:08
CAST report, look at what's happened in Norway, look at what's happened in
56:15
Finland, look at the debates happening in Canada. Pushing back on the on
56:22
the ideology. We actually do have a partner organization that is internationally focused.
56:30
The name of that partner organization is called the Domestic Abuse and Violent International Alliance
56:37
DAVIA for short again Domestic Abuse and Violence International Alliance UH that that group also
56:45
has a concern about the gender ideology. Okay, excellent, Edward, thank
56:52
you very much. Now I'm not going to let you go before you tell
56:55
people who've been listening and watching how to how to specifically the work of SAVE
57:01
and what it is you're doing, and you know, if they would like
57:06
to to perhaps get in touch with you, either through your website or whatever,
57:09
can you just talk a little bit about the sort of perhaps the online
57:13
presence you have or the communication network that people might tap into. Yeah,
57:16
we're we're proud to have a very strong and very well developed website, save
57:23
services dot org. Save services dot org. We also have social media presence.
57:31
If you wish to contact us, our email is info at save services
57:37
dot org. Save services dot org. Excellent, Thank you very much.
57:42
And the other thing I should just ask is in case that people are listening
57:47
and would like to do something sort of proactive, perhaps how does your funding
57:53
work, and you know, our donation is something that you're sort of seeking
57:58
and you know helped with certainly, Yes, absolutely, yes. Our webs
58:05
are on our website at safe services dot org, board slash donation, that's
58:12
where persons can make a contribution. So yes, we're more than happy to
58:17
receive contributions. In the United States. We are a five oh one Ceed
58:22
three organization, which means that your contributions are tax exempt. Edward, it's
58:29
been a fascinating, if somewhat horrific journey with you to discover the sorts of
58:35
things that you've confronted and yet still been able to make outstanding progress on.
58:39
So I'm really grateful to you for speaking not just to me, but to
58:45
the UK Column audience, and to the audience, I would just remind you
58:50
that there will be notes posted below this interview at UK column dot org.
58:54
If you are in a position to support the UK Column financially, which costs
58:59
a five pounds a month, and you're not already doing so, then please
59:02
do consider it. And it just remains for me to say, Edward,
59:07
thank you so much for your contribution which has been terribly valuable, and I
59:10
hope that there will be a lot of traffic coming your way in terms of
59:15
interest, but also that you will have encouraged people to take action in the
59:20
way that you have demonstrated can make a real difference. Thank you very much,
59:23
my pleasure, Charles be in touch absolutely