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Discussing The Rapture | Gary and Mondo · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Well, welcome to the podcast today, everybody. Gary and I
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  Speaker 2: are here discussing some and having some good Bible study,
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  Speaker 2: and we're going to be talking about the rapture and
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  Speaker 2: the resurrection and resurrected bodies and what does that look like.
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  Speaker 2: What does the Bible say that the new resurrected body
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  Speaker 2: is going to be like. But before we do want
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  Speaker 2: to remind everybody that our conference, our Norman Conference, the
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  Speaker 2: Imminent Return Conference, is coming up and if you haven't
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  Speaker 2: had a chance to sign up or join us for that,
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  Speaker 2: Gary's going to be there, it's going to be great.
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  Speaker 2: The twenty four other speakers are going to be there,
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  Speaker 2: and we're going to be having a great time. You
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  Speaker 2: can get more information at Watchersweekend dot com. And if
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  Speaker 2: you can't be there in person, that's kind of a
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  Speaker 2: bumber for us, but you can still watch us live
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  Speaker 2: through the live stream. Ach again Watchers weekend dot com.
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  Speaker 2: You can see the information there and you have up
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  Speaker 2: to six months to watch it and you watch it
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  Speaker 2: at your convenience. But one of the topics that clearly
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  Speaker 2: is going to be on the agenda is the idea
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  Speaker 2: of the rapture and Jesus's return. But Gary, we had
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  Speaker 2: such a great discussion just earlier and we thought this
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  Speaker 2: would be great to do a podcast on it is
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  Speaker 2: the idea of the rapture. You you did a DVD
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  Speaker 2: a while ago on the rapture is the resurrection, and
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  Speaker 2: so they're so they're so intertwined with one another. Let's
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  Speaker 2: let's talk about.
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  Speaker 1: That they are. And you know, the resurrection is called
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  Speaker 1: the blessed hope, and it's the blessed hope. It is
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  Speaker 1: not a blessed hope. It is a singular event. It
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  Speaker 1: only happens one time. And Mando, as you know, and
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  Speaker 1: we've been talking about this, there's a lot of conversation
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  Speaker 1: about the rapture, and some of it is at variance
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  Speaker 1: with others. It's just discussion. But I want to just
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  Speaker 1: start by mentioning that I'm looking at first Thessalonians chapter four,
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  Speaker 1: where it says for the Lord himself, I shall descend
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  Speaker 1: from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel,
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  Speaker 1: the trump of God. The dead in Christ shall rise first. Now,
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  Speaker 1: this is the blessed hope of the church. It's going
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  Speaker 1: to happen. I take the view that it's a singular event.
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  Speaker 1: It's not stretched out over a period of time. It
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  Speaker 1: happens at a moment in history, and we which are
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  Speaker 1: alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them
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  Speaker 1: in the clouds. In other words, someone is coming in
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  Speaker 1: the clouds. We hear a voice. Now, whether it sounds
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  Speaker 1: like a trumpet, which I've often thought, or whether it's
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  Speaker 1: just a plain voice. You know, John heard a voice
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  Speaker 1: that he thought sounded a lot like a trumpet. That
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  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for that shout as you are, and we
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  Speaker 1: believe that it's close. That being the case, let's talk
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  Speaker 1: about the resurrection. And the resurrection is the hope of
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  Speaker 1: the church. In other words, when you witness to someone
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  Speaker 1: who does not know Christ, and you take them down
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  Speaker 1: the old Romans road.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, it's a good road to be down.
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  Speaker 1: It is a good road. And at some point you'll say,
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  Speaker 1: and by the way, one of these days you're going
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  Speaker 1: to go with us when the Lord comes down with
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  Speaker 1: a shout and he says, come up hither, we're all
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  Speaker 1: going to go, and you are too. That's what you
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  Speaker 1: say to this new convert because it is the blessed hope.
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  Speaker 1: Now that starts the conversation. Where do we go from here?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, let's I think there's a couple of
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  Speaker 2: things here that I would love for you to comment on.
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  Speaker 2: And I think if you're listening to this, and you
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  Speaker 2: can if you're driving, and then maybe not, but if
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  Speaker 2: you're just listening to this, you know, get your biblog
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  Speaker 2: because we're going to be covering a lot of passages
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  Speaker 2: today which are going to provide some information, some very
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  Speaker 2: good points of contact that anybody can read. But let
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  Speaker 2: me just read this Gary. You read verse seventeen. But
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  Speaker 2: if we go back to verse thirteen, Paul is saying,
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  Speaker 2: we do not want you to be uninformed or ignorant,
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  Speaker 2: brothers about those who are asleep, those who have died.
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  Speaker 2: That you may not grieve as others grieve who do
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  Speaker 2: not have hope, for since we believe that Jesus died
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  Speaker 2: and rose again, even so through Jesus, God will bring
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  Speaker 2: with him those who have fallen asleep, those who have died.
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  Speaker 2: So right here in the beginning, the first thing that
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  Speaker 2: he talks about, in my mind is we believe that
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  Speaker 2: Jesus died and rose again. So he's talking about Jesus's
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  Speaker 2: death and resurrection. So that's kind of what I see
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  Speaker 2: as that's the first introduction. It's the template. Even so Jesus,
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  Speaker 2: even through Jesus, God is going to bring with Jesus
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  Speaker 2: those who have died. For this, we declared to you
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  Speaker 2: by the word from the Lord, that we who are alive,
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  Speaker 2: who are left until the coming of the Lord, will
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  Speaker 2: not precede those who have fallen asleep or those who
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  Speaker 2: have died, as you mentioned, for the Lord himself and
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  Speaker 2: to send from heaven with the cry of a command,
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  Speaker 2: with the voice of an archangel and the sound of
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  Speaker 2: the trumpet, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
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  Speaker 2: Then we who are alive, who are left will be
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  Speaker 2: caught up together with them in the clouds to meet
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  Speaker 2: the Lord. And my favorite verse really in the whole Bible,
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  Speaker 2: and so we will always be with the Lord. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: that's what we're all looking forward to. So let's talk
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  Speaker 2: here first, what do you see. Let's go, let's go
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  Speaker 2: moment by a moment. Okay, what is the sequence? So
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  Speaker 2: what's the sequence of events for this entire rapture event
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  Speaker 2: starting with the cry of the command, the voice of
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  Speaker 2: an archangel. What's happening here laid out for us?
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  Speaker 1: Well. To me, the voice of the archangel is kind
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  Speaker 1: of key because you want to read about the voice
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  Speaker 1: of the archangel, which book do you go to in
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  Speaker 1: the Bible? You go to Revelation, And when you flip
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  Speaker 1: over the Revelation you find that John in Revelation chapter
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  Speaker 1: four saw a door open in heaven and a voice,
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  Speaker 1: and he said, this voice sounded like a trumpet, and
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  Speaker 1: it said, come up hither, and I'll show you the
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  Speaker 1: things that must be hereafter. And I believe that John
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  Speaker 1: is modeling the rapture of the church. It's a pattern,
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  Speaker 1: it's a type because he's just talked about seven churches
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  Speaker 1: and the arc over the centuries of the church and
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  Speaker 1: all of the variations that it goes through, permutations and
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  Speaker 1: sometimes miseries. And then at the end, a door is
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  Speaker 1: open in heaven and a voice says, come up hither. Now,
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  Speaker 1: this to me is going to be a universal event.
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  Speaker 1: John experienced it in advance for us, which takes us
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  Speaker 1: to the time element. John lived a long time ago,
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  Speaker 1: and yet I think he saw something in the far
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  Speaker 1: far future. He actually experienced it when a door opened
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  Speaker 1: in heaven because I've always thought that when I personally
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  Speaker 1: experienced the rapture, a door is going to open in
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  Speaker 1: heaven and I'm going to hear something like someone saying,
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  Speaker 1: come up here, come over here, and I believe that.
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  Speaker 1: Continue to imagine how many millions of people will be
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  Speaker 1: raised at the same time, and it's going to take
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  Speaker 1: I guess, some kind of an operation that involves guidance.
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  Speaker 1: I keep thinking of an angelic ministry devoted to the
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  Speaker 1: rapture showing people where to go. I can think of that, right,
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  Speaker 1: thousands of people all the same time ago, and they've
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  Speaker 1: just been about to take a bite of food and
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  Speaker 1: suddenly something says, come up hither and bam, where am I?
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  Speaker 1: And I think there's going to be an incredible process
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  Speaker 1: of taking all of the saved into heaven. It's that
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  Speaker 1: same time and so and John kind of gives us
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  Speaker 1: a little hint of that because when in Revelation, when
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  Speaker 1: he talks about that voice like a trumpet, what does
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  Speaker 1: he see? He sees the throne of God, and he
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  Speaker 1: sees a meeting of the leaders of the church, and
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  Speaker 1: they are convened to do business in heaven, and that
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  Speaker 1: business is to open that scroll, and the Lord comes
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  Speaker 1: forth to open the scroll and to set things right
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  Speaker 1: that have been going so very, very wrong. As we've
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  Speaker 1: read in the Bible. You know, for centuries things have
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  Speaker 1: been absolutely humongous here on earth, miserable people have been
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  Speaker 1: trying and failing. And yet in the Church age there
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  Speaker 1: is a body of Christ and it is success. The
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  Speaker 1: name of the Church is success. And so when we
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  Speaker 1: go up there and finally see the business is going
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  Speaker 1: to be done in heaven, we are I think seated
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  Speaker 1: in a grand, spectacular area of some sort that I
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  Speaker 1: can't even imagine that being the case. How do you
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  Speaker 1: imagine sitting in a chair and waiting for the before
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  Speaker 1: they get the meeting to start, and you look down
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  Speaker 1: at your hands and you say, Wow, I'm in heaven.
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  Speaker 1: But what kind of a body am I in? That's
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  Speaker 1: a that's a question you and I have been.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna discuss that for sure,
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  Speaker 2: because I think there's a lot to say. What do
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  Speaker 2: you make of here? There's two things that he says there.
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  Speaker 2: He says that we who are alive were left until
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  Speaker 2: the coming of the Lord, will will not preced those
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  Speaker 2: who have died, and it also makes mention of and
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  Speaker 2: the dead in Christ will rise first. So those two
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  Speaker 2: things are time factors. So what's he meaning by those
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  Speaker 2: that those of us who hopefully if we're alive at
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  Speaker 2: the time, were changed. We'll talk about that later in
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  Speaker 2: a moment, but that we will not precede those who
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  Speaker 2: have fallen asleep. What's he talking about there?
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  Speaker 1: You know, I think that's kind of an assurance. In
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  Speaker 1: other words, you have questions about your loved ones, you
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  Speaker 1: have questions about the dead in Christ, and rather than
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  Speaker 1: leave us guessing, suddenly we're told, Hey, the dead in
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  Speaker 1: Christ rise first. Don't worry about it. They're going to
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  Speaker 1: be there too. And then at this rapture event, at
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  Speaker 1: this rapture event, and I want to ask you a
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  Speaker 1: question that has plagued me for a long time, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm not sure anybody knows the answer. The dead in
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  Speaker 1: Christ rise first, and then we who are alive remain.
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  Speaker 1: How much space is between the dead in Christ and
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  Speaker 1: then we who are alive? Have you ever thought about that?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I have thought about it. And because it's
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  Speaker 2: interesting that there's different perspectives on you know, the dead
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  Speaker 2: in Christ will rise first, the perspective that I take
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  Speaker 2: here is the then in verse seventeen is a very
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  Speaker 2: specific construction in Greek which is connecting the previous section.
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  Speaker 2: So the idea here is in thinking about a sequence
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  Speaker 2: is Paul is saying, he's again the people are worried
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  Speaker 2: that their loved ones are not going to be participating
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  Speaker 2: in the resurrection. I think this is a physical resurrection.
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  Speaker 2: Why because he starts it out by saying, since we
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  Speaker 2: believe that Jesus died and rose again, right, that's verse fourteen,
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  Speaker 2: So he's saying, hey, everybody, we believe that Jesus died
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  Speaker 2: and rose again. He wrote about that, which we'll get
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  Speaker 2: to him for stwent it's fifteen. But because Jesus is
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  Speaker 2: the pattern. Jesus died, his physical body was in there,
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  Speaker 2: it was is in the tomb, and then when he resurrected,
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  Speaker 2: his physical body is now gone, and we'll talk about that.
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  Speaker 2: But he's saying, the pattern I'm going to give you
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  Speaker 2: right now is the pattern that was based on Jesus's pattern,
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  Speaker 2: because we are going to be with him. So in
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  Speaker 2: the same way, if we're thinking about a sequence, how
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  Speaker 2: far well all we know is that we don't get
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  Speaker 2: physically changed in that moment in the Twinklunine, as we'll
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  Speaker 2: see in first Grien's fifteen, until the resurrection of these
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  Speaker 2: other people happens first, that there's a there's a preceding.
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  Speaker 2: He says, hey, not, because this is his point in
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  Speaker 2: my mind. Oh no, what about my aunt Susie who died.
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  Speaker 2: Did she miss the rapture? Oh no? And Paul's like, oh, Donny,
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  Speaker 2: you don't even need to worry about that, because in
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  Speaker 2: fact she's gonna she's gonna be the recipient of that event. First,
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  Speaker 2: the dead in Christ will rise first, and then you
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  Speaker 2: who are remaining are gonna be changed. You're both going
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  Speaker 2: to receive glorified bodies, physical bodies, and so you don't
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  Speaker 2: need to worry about it, Susie, because in fact, she's
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  Speaker 2: gonna get the effect of this rapture slash resurrection event
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  Speaker 2: before you are. It's like, oh, really yes, And then
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  Speaker 2: once we are changed, we'll be caught up together with
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  Speaker 2: those people that got changed, the dead that have risen
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  Speaker 2: first into the clouds, and thus we will always be
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  Speaker 2: with Lord. So how soon. The one thing that I
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  Speaker 2: would like to say is that there's there's kind of
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  Speaker 2: a theory that all the graves are gonna be opened
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  Speaker 2: and then the dirt is gonna be piled up. I
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  Speaker 2: don't that's not what the text is saying. The text
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  Speaker 2: doesn't mention anything about the actual grave or the coffin
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  Speaker 2: being opened.
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  Speaker 1: Let me just cut in here and say that, Uh,
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  Speaker 1: there's always a question. What about those whose bodies have
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  Speaker 1: entirely disappear returned to Adams's say they died fifteen hundred years.
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  Speaker 2: Old, they got eaten by sharks in the ocean and
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  Speaker 2: then you know, disseminated throughout their ocean, or the cannibal
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  Speaker 2: at them and then another cannibal. And when you hear
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  Speaker 2: that story, elithant.
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  Speaker 1: So many of the dead in Christ have like, as
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  Speaker 1: you say, been eaten by a shark or something like that.
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  Speaker 1: How do they get resurrected? And I'm sure you've thought about.
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  Speaker 2: This, Yeah, you know. My thought is that I do
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  Speaker 2: see a connection between the old body wherever it is
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  Speaker 2: that God knows, right, even if it's in a million
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  Speaker 2: pieces spread across the ocean, there is a connection between
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  Speaker 2: the old body, the old natural body, and the new body.
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  Speaker 2: Because Jesus is the example, He's the pattern here and
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  Speaker 2: we'll get into some of that. And so in my
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  Speaker 2: mind I think that God is able. Certainly, God can
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  Speaker 2: do anything. He's able to gather together, not that he
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  Speaker 2: needs it. He doesn't need the old body, of course,
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  Speaker 2: not no. But God likes to work with material. We
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  Speaker 2: see that for example in Genesis chapters one and two.
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  Speaker 2: Genesis two, mainly when God created Adam out of the earth,
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  Speaker 2: he took some dirt and he formed it into Adam's body,
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  Speaker 2: which only God can do. So he used pre existing
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  Speaker 2: material to create the original. And in this regard, when
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  Speaker 2: we look at Jesus, Jesus appeared in his glorified body,
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  Speaker 2: which we'll discuss. But God used pre existing material because well,
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  Speaker 2: how do we know that? How do we know? Because
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  Speaker 2: when Jesus shows up in Luke twenty four, he tells
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  Speaker 2: him look at my scars in my hands, look at
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  Speaker 2: the pierce in my side. So for him at least
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  Speaker 2: there was a continuity of the old body which was
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  Speaker 2: scarred and his new glorified body. Now does that mean
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  Speaker 2: if I have a scar in my body it's going
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  Speaker 2: to be then the new one? Not necessarily. I think
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  Speaker 2: Jesus is a special example of this.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And we believe that Jesus was entombed and he
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  Speaker 1: was wrapped and he was buried in the Jewish way,
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  Speaker 1: which was very complex and very detailed, and on third
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  Speaker 1: day he arose. And so his resurrection is like an
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  Speaker 1: immediate one after three days, after three days, and we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about a resurrection of someone who may have died
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  Speaker 1: hundreds of years ago, and we're not talking about those
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  Speaker 1: alive at the rapture. But the I'm looking at first
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  Speaker 1: Corinthians fifteen. We're in verse forty two where it says,
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  Speaker 1: so also is the resurrection of the dead sown in corruption,
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  Speaker 1: raised in incorruption, sewn in dishonor raised in glory, sown
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  Speaker 1: in weakness, raised in power. This is us sown in weakness,
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  Speaker 1: raised in power. Jesus was not sown in weakness. He
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  Speaker 1: was perfection. And so his resurrection, although a type for
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  Speaker 1: us to look at, is something completely different. When I
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  Speaker 1: think when he rose bodily and then came back and
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  Speaker 1: showed himself to all these people and you know, sat
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  Speaker 1: down and ate with them and everything, he was trying
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  Speaker 1: to convince all of us that this is going to
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  Speaker 1: happen to every one of you. But in a different
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  Speaker 1: slightly different way.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think is different about it?
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  Speaker 1: Well, Jesus had just been laying to rest, and he
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  Speaker 1: was there for three days, and when he rose, he
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  Speaker 1: arose bodily. Now, when the dead and Christ rise first,
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  Speaker 1: as we've just been talking about, Let's take a case
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  Speaker 1: where somebody say, was buried a week ago, Christian berried
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  Speaker 1: a week ago, Bamp the raptor, and does that individual
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  Speaker 1: come out bodily out of the casket or is it
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  Speaker 1: a spiritual raising? And this is the question that we're
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  Speaker 1: sort of pushing back and forth here exactly because I.
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  Speaker 2: Think if we look at this might be good to
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  Speaker 2: go through. Is the resurrection body? Because Paul in talking
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  Speaker 2: in verse Corinthians fifteen, which you know is well known
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  Speaker 2: as the resurrection chapter, right, he talks about the gospel
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  Speaker 2: in verse three again bringing up that Christ died for
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  Speaker 2: our sins according with the scriptures, that he was buried,
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  Speaker 2: that he was raised on the third day, and that
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  Speaker 2: he appeared and he appeared to five hundred people Sephus
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  Speaker 2: and others. So he clearly is talking about Jesus' physical resurrection.
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  Speaker 2: Because again, if you look at church history, there's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of people who believe that in some of the
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  Speaker 2: Gnostic or even the other viewpoints, that Jesus was not physical.
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  Speaker 2: But yet we know that. I think that's what he's
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  Speaker 2: saying here, that he was physical and so that he appeared,
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  Speaker 2: and then of course through the rest of the chapter.
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  Speaker 2: But if we jump in there at verse thirty five,
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  Speaker 2: which I think, let's bring it up, Paul says, but
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  Speaker 2: someone will ask, how are the dead raised with? What
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  Speaker 2: kind of body do they come? You, foolish person, what
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  Speaker 2: you sew, what you plant in the ground. What you
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  Speaker 2: plant does not come to life unless it dies. And
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  Speaker 2: what you sew is not the body that is to be.
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  Speaker 2: But it's a bare kernel, perhaps of weed or some
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  Speaker 2: other grain. But God does give it a body, as
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  Speaker 2: he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its
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  Speaker 2: own body that it develops into. He says, for not
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: all flesh is the same. But there's one kind for humans,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: And I think what he's doing here is he's describing, Hey,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: if God is going to create a body of something,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: there's different types. So we know that. And he says, Look,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: there's heavenly bodies and there's earthly bodies, and then he's
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: talking about the suns and the stars and versus earth.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: He says, but the glory of the heavenly is one kind,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: and the glory of the earth is another. There's one
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: glory of the sun and the glory of the moon,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and glory of the stars for stars, for star differs
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: from star and glory, he says. So all that's simply
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to say that this is where I see that that
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: grain of kernel. You take a plant, a tulip bulb.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: It's a bulb, it's ugly, it's it's weak, but it's
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: put in the ground. But when it comes out, it's beautiful.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: But it's still connected. That new tulip flower is an
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: outworking of the miracle of life that God took from
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the bulb. So the bulb, the bulb has transformed. The
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: bulb doesn't cease to exist. The bulb is transformed. But
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: see this, So this, let's let's jump in here verse
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: forty two, because this is what I think. So it
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: is with the resurrection of the dead, what is sown
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: is perishable, perishable, what his rais is imperishable. So one
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: will say mortal. So what I think with Jesus Jesus died.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: He was physical, it was natural, it was a human body.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So Jesus died just like all of us will. He
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: had a human body. He got tired. I think that's
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: when it says when it's weak. Jesus was weak. There
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: was times when even his physical body was weak. He
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: needed food. Of course, if he didn't eat, he would
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: have died. That's how weak that body is. It's sown
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: in dishonor. There's no doubt. I think in many ways
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Jesus was buried in dishonor. He was buried naked. I mean,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that's that's pretty that's pretty dishonoring. But that was part
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of his service. But it was raised in glory. It
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: was sown in weakness, it was raised in power. It
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: was sown or buried a natural body. It has raised
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: a spiritual body. And he says, if there is a
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: natural body, there's also a spiritual body. And so the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: question what I think here is is the new body
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that Jesus had. I think we make a mistake here, Gary,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes we think we might think, oh, well, that
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: one's physical and the spiritual is non physical. If you
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: look in first Countance too, he's that's not what he's
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: talking about here. There is a natural body which is
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: of this world, of this age, but there's a new
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: body that has spiritual capabilities. So, for example, I have
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: a question and this point, I think it's a good question.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: When we die as Christians, as Bible believing Christians saved,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: what happens to us? Of course, our body goes into
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the grave, But what happens to us? Where do we
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: go when we die? And what about somebody that we've
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: known all our lives, maybe our parents, they've passed on already.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Where are they now? What are they doing?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Now? We know their bodies are in the grave. Where
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: are they awaiting the rapture? Because the dead in Christ
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: rise first, and they've gone on and my parents, I
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: know as believers, are waiting for the rapture, but they're
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: not on earth. How does that work?
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: That's a great so here again you'd have some people
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: might say that that when it says there that the
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: dead in Christ rise first, that that is a spiritual
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: resurrection that they Secretians five eight says that to be
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: so they go up into heaven. So that's the resurrection.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: That's one viewpoint that it's a spiritual resurrection, that the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: new body is not spiritual or is not physical. And
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: so we know that when somebody dies, the only way
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: to reconcile this is is they're in heaven. So when
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: they come back, because as it says here Jesus, God
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: is going to bring with Jesus those who have died.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: So they're in heaven. They're up with him, that's what
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it says. They're in heaven. So what's coming back, Well,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the typical response, which would be is that their spirits
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: are coming back to be reunited with their physical body
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: that has been raised from somewhere. Again, in what I
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: would think is inconsistency, because God is going to gather
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: all those elements or even he said maybe they died
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: a week ago, their body's there. But that's where I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: see again. I think the connection is Paul is saying
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the pattern Jesus is the pattern that Philippins three twenty
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: one says that God will transform our lowly bodies, these
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: weak bodies right now, these non glorious, these perishable bodies,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: to be like Jesus's glorious body. So that's why I
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: think Jesus. And not only is the pattern, but Jesus
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: also is going to what happened to him is going
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to happen to us, because here's why. And you know this.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: In Luke twenty four, Jesus is talking to the guys
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: on the road to Amaas. They finally they recognize him
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and he vanishes, and you're like, oh, he vanished. Well,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: then the boys run back to talk to the apostles
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: in the room. The room is locked, and I'll read it.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: So it says this is in Luke twenty four. This
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: is super important. It says the Lord has risen, indeed,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and he has appeared to signment. Then they told what
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: had happened on the road to Hemaas and how he
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: was made known to them in the breaking of the bread.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: among them and said to them, peace to you. But
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: they were startled, and they were frightened, and they thought
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: that they saw a spirit. And he said to them,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: why are you so troubled, and why do doubts arise
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: in your hearts? See my hands and my feet that
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: it is myself. Touch me and see, for a spirit
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: does not have flesh and bones, as you see that
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I have. And when he had said this, he showed
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: them his hands in his feet, and while they still
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: have you anything here to eat? And they gave him
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a piece of broiled fish and he took it and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: ate it in front of them. So here, what do
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you have? Jesus has these spiritual capabilities, yet he's still
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: physical because they tell him to touch and he says, okay,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: they're still disbelieving, and finally he says, give me something
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: to eat. But he acknowledged that he has flesh and bone,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: not flesh and blood, book, not flesh and bud. So
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: this is where I think Jesus is the pattern. Our
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: body's going to be like him. Because later in one
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: conteen is fifteen, it says in the same way that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Jesus had a earthly body at one time and now
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: receive this glorified body. That's going to happen to us as.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Well, well, said, you know, sona in corruption raised in
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: in corruption, and that's Christ absolutely incorrupt, and that's the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: model for us to look forward to. In other words,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: we're going to have a body similar to Christ's body,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: but only after.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: The resurrection only agreed. We can agree on that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: From now until that day, the resurrection day, we're operating
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: under earth rules. In other words, our bodies are corrupt
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and liable to injury.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Weakness, as it says, all those things weakness, yes, perishable.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Because again when we think of Jesus, I do think him.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: He's our lord. But he came down and Philippians two
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: says he humbled himself to the point of the cross
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: where he was stripped naked for us, and he was
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: beaten and he bled, and he was you know, bruised
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and laid. They took him off the cross, and here
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you have this corpse, this beat up that mankind did
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: to him, and he allowed it. And so I think
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: that's where I think Paul is saying in and we
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: when when this human existence, when we're buried, I mean,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: it's it's anybody that's seeing a you know, maybe at
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: a wake or you know you've seen your loved one,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and and you see them there and the corpses there,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: and they tied it and try to beautify it, right,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: They try to make it look as good as possible,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: and sometimes they can't but you look at that and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you're and and you see whether they're old or even
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: if they're young, that they're they're they're gone. That that
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that that physical body could not take whatever happened. You know.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: That takes me back to Paul writing in Fort Corinthians
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: fifteen fifty five, where he says, death, where is thy
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: sting o grave? Where is thy victory? The sting of
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: But thanks be to God which giveth us the victory,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, death and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: by the way, everybody fears death. I don't care who
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you are. You're saying, and let's just insert this thought
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: because this is what we're talking about. We say to ourselves, Oh,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I hope I go on the rapture before I die,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to experience death, right, agreed. I
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: don't want to go through I don't want my friends
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and relatives to go through having to handle my body
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and all of them get the burial and all that's.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I want to be raptured and I and I want
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: to be able to shout, O death, where is thy sting?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: And so forth and so on so we're all, all
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of us who are believers are saying, oh, I hope
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the rap comes today. And I think that's the the instigator.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: That's what keeps us talking so frequently about the rapture
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: of the church, which is happening now in a way
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I've never seen before.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: It really well. And I think as we you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: we do often here when we talk about the convergence
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: of events, it reminds us that all those things that
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: we're seeing as as preparatory or conditioning or stage shetting
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: shows us to the raptures that is that much sooner.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And of course here we are. You know, I have
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: a few neck problems and a couple of back problems occasionally,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: and I know that as life goes it's probably only
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: going to get stronger again. I really when I when
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I read about what is perishable, I'm like, oh, I
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: feel that or dishonoring. You know, you think about it's
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: it's sown in dishonor uh. You know. I have family
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and relatives too. As they got older, maybe they couldn't
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: you know, they became incontinent, and so you think about
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: how like my daddy talks about, you know, I don't
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: want that's embarrassing. As I get older, I can't I
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: have to wear a diaper. And you think, here, you
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: think about this. You take Adam straight from the atom
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and e both straight from the hand of God. These
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: these beautiful, glorious creatures humans untouched by sin and yet
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: to dust. They're we're going to return. But even in
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that process, as you talked about, the process that we
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: don't want is we can can continue to get older.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, how dishonoring is it that we go from
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: glory to where I wet myself. You know, that's the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: reality of just sin. And I'm not saying that to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: shame anybody. I'm saying that's all of us. And we
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: have these these weaknesses that happen as we get older.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what Paul's saying is, hey, guys,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: this is an experience that many of us have. We
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: lose our faculties. We're perishable, we're dishonored. It's dishonorable, We're weak.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: It's it's a natural body. But I think he says
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: this in verse forty five for Steens fifteen. Thus it
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: is written the first man, Adam became a living being,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: but the last atom in this case would be Jesus
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: became a life giving spirit. But it is not the
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: spiritual that it's first, but the natural and then comes
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: to spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: man of dust, but the second man came from heaven.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Now here's the key. As was the man of dust,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: that's all of us, Adam, so also are those who
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: are of the dust, And as is the man of heaven,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: so also are those who are of heaven. Just as
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: we have borne the image of the man of dust,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: we also shall bear the image of the Man of heaven.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: See this is why I think that Jesus's glorified body,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: we are going to bear that exact image because of
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: this passage. So his resurrection, he went from again from
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: being able to die and being beaten and weak and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: again as attired and all those things to power glory spiritual.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: He has these spiritual capabilities where he can vanish in
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: a moment, where he can enter into a building that's locked,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and we're going to bear that image, and it's the
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: image of heaven. So it doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't physical,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: but there are now spiritual capability that Jesus didn't even
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: have so much on earth during his ministry, right because
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: he came to live like us.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, thinking about as you're talking, I'm thinking
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: about history, and through the history of the Church, people
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: have known about this letter from Paul, Yeah, the Corinthian Letter,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: and they've read chapter fifteen over and over and over again.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: And wow, I just can't wait to experience this. But
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: as you're talking, I'm thinking back to the nineteenth century,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: and you look at church history and you come to
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the nineteenth century century and something new is beginning to happen. Israel,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: which has been dispersed, is beginning to quicken just a
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: little bit. And as you move towards the twentieth century,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and people are beginning to say, we must go back home.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And you know the rest of the story May fourteenth,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty forty eight, and we all know about that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, Christian writers were beginning to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: write about dispensationalism. They were beginning to write about the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: resurrection and rapture. And as you come into the twentieth century,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: that excitement is gathering speed. And then you come up
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: to where we are at twenty twenty three, and people
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: are saying I think the rapture can happen like day
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: after tomorrow. So I see a progression, a latter day
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: progression that we're watching very carefully. We are the prophecy watchers,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: after all, and we're getting excited about the nearness of
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: this thing. And a lot of people, let's face it,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: set dates, Yes they do. I've been guilty of that.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I have too, Gary, I'm ashamed to say it, but
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I have, yep.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: And so let's talk about the rapture in terms of society,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: in terms of history and current events.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that as we have this hope you
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: said it very well, the blessed hope of avoiding because look,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not looking If I was a mid trip person,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: or if I was a pre Rath person, or even
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: a post trip person, what I would be looking for.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I'd be looking for the Antichrist. I'd be looking for
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: him to show up. I'd be looking for a covenant
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: with Israel Daniel nine twenty seven. I would be looking
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: for that. I'm not looking for that, you know. I'm
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: watching for the signs that are setting up to conditions
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: for that. What I'm looking for is the appearing of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: the Lord Jesus in the rapture. You know. Second tivoty
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: four to eight says all those who love is appearing
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: are going to receive a crown. And so I'm even
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: though I see all these other things, what I'm anticipating
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: and looking for is that blessed hope and the great
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: appearing of our Lord and Savior. So in many ways
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: people say, oh, you know, you rapture people, You guys
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: are just you know, looking for the I'm not looking
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: for the Antichrist. In fact, I don't expect to see
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: him at all, because that's the first thing that happens
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: inside the tribulation, is the apostasy and the man of
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: sin first, that the those things come first. So when
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: we look at all these scenarios in our culture, all
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: those things again, if we talk about timing, the rapture
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: is even sooner. And I think this is where you know,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: you know, go ahead, go ahead. I mean, this is
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: just exciting to me.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Okay. And here's a sentence I think that I want
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you to comment on. This is first Thessalonians chapter five,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: verse one. But of the times in seasons, brethren, you
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: have no need that I write unto you. Well, I
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: remember when I first read that verse and I said,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: what do you mean you have no need? Yeah, I
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: have a need. I need to find out true, to
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: find out everything that I can. You have no need
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: that I write to you for yourselves know perfectly the
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Day of the Lord. So come as a thief in
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the night. In other words, we add a little drama.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And I think it's this element that has us all
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: looking and saying, Wow, we're getting close. We're getting very close.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: We should live as though we are very close. And
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: by the way, I think we should because it's a
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: great motivator.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that what the Day of the Lord
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: is is a very I don't know. It's a very
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: diverse word. You can't just find tune it. It has
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a great breadth of understanding. It includes all the way
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: prior to the tribulation period, includes a tribulation. It also
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: includes the last day of Jesus's second coming, so that
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: if you just study it, it has a broad way.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Even in the Old Testament. Even in Old Testament, it
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: would have a fulfillment in the Babylonian captivity or the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Assyrian captivity or those kind of things. So, but the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Day of the Lord here, I think Paul is clearly
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: talking about he just got done talking about the rapture
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: in chapter four, and so he's talking about this day
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of judgment because in verse nine of Verssilians five he says,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: you know, we're not appointed to a wrath, We're not
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: destined for wrath. He says that in one verse ten
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: as well. So, but what we do know is at
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: that time of judgment, that day of the Lord judgment,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: what I would I think here he's talking about the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: seven year tribulation. It's going to arrive as a thief.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: It's going to come as a surprise on certain people.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: But if you are ready, if you're standing there at
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: night waiting for somebody, you maybe heard the rumor that
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: somebody's going to break in, and you're there waiting with
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: your weapon of choice, you're not going to be surprised
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: by that. And what he says there is that this
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: comes like a thief on those and when they are
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: saying peace and safety, sudden destruction comes upon them. See
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: not us. There's sudden destruction doesn't come upon us. There's
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: no destruction on us.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And that's very cogent at the moment because we're looking
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: at a world, a nuclear armed world YEP with a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: shaky financial system. We're looking at global pandemics. We're looking
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: at I think nations quaking in fear, economic fear of
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: various kinds, and worrying about global warming. We're all going
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: to choke to death on a hideously heated atmosphere.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Right, Fear fear fear, Yeah.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Fear fear everywhere you look. But here in First Thessalonians
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: five to eleven, it says, comfort one one another, comfort
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: yourselves together, edify one another, even as also you do.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what we're doing right now. At
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: least that's what I would like to do, is comfort someone.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And you know, Gary, that's an important
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: thing because you have the word comfort here. He talks
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: about comfort in chapter four, verse eighteen. Because let's be honest,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: the rapture doesn't mean that life isn't difficult, because you know,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you have brothers and sisters around the world. And Jesus
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: said John sixteen thirty three, you know these are my words,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: my peace I give to you. Okay, in Him, we
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: have peace in Him. In this world you're going to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: have tribulation. That'd be a good cheer. I've overcome the world.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: So that's tribulation with the little tea, We're all going
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: to have trouble until the very end. But he's talking
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: about an end time event. Here, he's talking about the wrath,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: the s catological wrath of the seven year tribulation, and
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: so in that regard, what's the comfort is the comfort
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: once we get inside the tribulation period. And some people
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: like to say, well, one of it's man's wraths, some
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: of its Satan's wrath, and I reject those because clearly
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Jesus is the one opening the seal. In Revelation six
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: to two, he's using an angel, he's in sovereign. Jesus
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: is orchestrating this. So he does use men to bring trouble,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: just like you did when he used Babylon and Nebukanezer
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: to judge Israel. So God is in control. But here's
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: the thing, Hey, guys, I want you to comfort one another.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: You're going to go in and most of you are
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: gonna die through martyrs, but be comforted. I don't see
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: that here. There is no comfort. There's comfort in eternal life,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: but he's not talking about the comfort of spiritual life.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: He's saying, you, guys have comfort. Sudden destruction is coming
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: up upon them, not us. So the idea of being
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: in the tribulation and reading this and going, oh no,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: there's there's all this war, there's judgments from heaven, there's famine,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: there's one fourth of the world dying, there's there's things
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: coming down. But hey, take comfort. There's no that that
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: is totally contradictory. I mean that doesn't bring comfort. Now,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: the rapture and escaping where sudden destruction comes upon them
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: and not us, that's takes That gives me comfort of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: that s catalogical time period.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: And we seem to be in that time period right now.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Not setting dates, but we seem to be there. I've
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: turned back while you were talking to Revelation chapter three
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and four, and we're talking about the seven churches here,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and you come down to Philadelphia, the church that God commends,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and then the seventh church is Laodicea, the church that
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: has backslid and has all kinds of bad habits and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: so forth. But this is the thing that really impresses me.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: At the end of the message to the church at Laodicea,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: we have this. It says him that overcometh to him
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: that overcometh, will I grant to sit with me in
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: my throne? And the very next chapter starts out with
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: John seeing a door in heaven and he's hearing a
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: trumpet which says, come up hither, and I'll show you
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the things that must be here after. In other words,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you talk about comfort. You have the church age, and
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: then you go to Revelation of four and we're all
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: taken up. And what do we see up there? We
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: see a convention, if you will, a gathering like no
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: for the throne, right before the throne of God. I
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: can't I want to be there. I can't even imagine
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: what that'll be like. What will I be wearing? Who
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: will I be sitting next to you? What's that? What's
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: God's throne going to look like? I got a million questions.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to be there. But that you talk
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: about comfort, and then the lamb comes forth Jesus, and
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: we all just say, praise the Lord. You know, we
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: worship you, oh Lord.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Laying crowns down at his right in relation for laying
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: crowns at his feet.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And then he begins to take vengeance. And
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: let's face it, that's been a long time in coming.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: This old Earth is a pretty mean, nasty and ugly
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: place to live, and we all say, oh, I wish
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it didn't have to be this way, and then the
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Bible says, no, it doesn't have to be that start
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: that way, it didn't start that way, and it's not
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: going to end that way. There will be justice. And
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: to me, that's all wrapped together in the conversation about
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the rapture.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there's a couple of the passages
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I would love for us to cover here and take
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: thinking about the rapture and the resurrection, because we've kind
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: of we've kind of showed that, you know. In one
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Corinthians fifteen we talked about the the contrast between the
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: old body and the new body, and the new body
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: is again to be powerful, it's gonna have spiritual capabilities,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: it's going to be glory, gloried, glorified. We also see
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: that there is a aspect that Paul talks about the
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: mystery that will all be changed in a moment, in
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: a twinklem and I there's one generation that will not die,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: which I think that's that's when you look at theologically
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the term mystery, it's always in reference to something that
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: was unrevealed in the Old Testament. So he's not talking
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: about the resurrection. And we see that in Job twenty six,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you know, and Isaiah. You know Isaiah twenty six and
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Job nineteen, so so you kind of have those passages there.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: So that and even Daniel twelve you see resurrection. But
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: the mystery is that there's a group that will not die.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: There's a whole generation that is going to be changed
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: in that twinklin of an eye. But let me read
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: something here, Gary in Luke twenty This is another interesting
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: passage because the Pharisees are the Saducees don't believe in
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the resurrection, of physical resurrection. They believe this, you know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: it's all spiritual. And so they give this story about
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: a man a woman who had seven husbands, and so
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: they're mocking, they're they're they're doing this, mocking Jesus. Could
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: they think they've come up with a stumper? And they says,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: so there were seven brothers. The first took a wife
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and died without children, and the second and the third
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: married her and likewise all seven but they left no
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: children and they died afterward. The woman also died in
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: the resurrection. Again say they're saying this mockingly. Therefore, whose
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: wife will the woman be? For all seven had her
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: as a wife. And Jesus said to them, the sons
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: of this age the children the humans. So humans of
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: this age Maryan are given in marriage. But those who
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: were considered worthy to attain that age and to the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: resurrection from the dead, they neither marry nor are given
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: in marriage, for they cannot die anymore because they are
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: of the resurrection. So it's interesting here that we in
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: our new glorified bodies marriages of this life there is
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: no marriage and that in that life. But we have
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: similarities then to the angelic realm. They're angelic bodies, so
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: to speak. And so I think some people think the
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: angels are just spiritual beings only. I actually think that
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: they do have a physical body in many ways. But
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: it's like the glorified body that Jesus has now and
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: that we will have because Paul, Jesus is saying that
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: we're going to be equal to them in number one,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: no marriage, but also not to be able to die anymore,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: which it brings us back to f one Scrindians fifteen
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: that were imperishable. We're incorruptible, will no longer be weak,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: will be powerful. We'll have those spiritual capabilities which as
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: we know, angels can come and go. They come and
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: they disappear. We see that, just like Jesus did. So
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: it's interesting if you take all the information, all the data.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Well, somebody is listening to you and say, oh, wait
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: a minute, that's got me worried. I'm not sure I'm
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: going to like that the way that works up there,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: because I'm married now, very happily, and you're saying, well,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: in heaven, there's not going to be any marriage, because
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: we're going to be there.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't say it, Jesus said.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Jesus said it, and you quoted him.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Somebody is saying this brings up like some negatives that
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I've heard expressed by people. Yeah, yeah, you know, am
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I am? I going to really enjoy that life because
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I really like the life I have here.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I had a great down here, yep. I mean, I
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: like my husband. I like my wife. I want to
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I want to stay with him. I want to spend
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: eternity with him, and I think that I don't blame
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: anybody for thinking that, because all we can do is
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: think in terms of our earthly existence. And I think
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Jesus is compassionate, but he's saying, no, that's not the case.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: And I think you would say, don't worry, You'll still
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: like what you've got. You'll be okay.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: All right. Now, I'm going to put a question to you,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: because all this conversation we've had, I think leads to
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: one thing. Let's just say that Mondo is in a
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: church somewhere and they recognize somebody recognizes you, and they
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: walk over and I'm so and so, and I've seen
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: you on TV. You're Mondo Gonzalez, and I have a
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: question for you. I've just been saved, not very long
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: at all, and I'm worried. I'm not sure I'm going
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: to make it into the rapture that everybody's talking about.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not even sure that raptor is going to happen.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: And can you do something to kind of console me
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: a little bit? So what are you going to say
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: to that person?
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: You know? I would say that the passage that comes
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: to my mind is First John three twenty, where John
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: is speaking about you know, the love of God, the
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: love of the Christian. But he says, even when our
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, because
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: and what he's saying there is that I know, especially
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: as an early Christian, I didn't have the knowledge that
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I do now. I didn't have the understanding and the
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: experience with the Lord that I do now after thirty
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: plus years. And so we wrestle back and forth with
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: our own unworthiness of being saved, and you know, and
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: of course you know, we're still sinners. But I would say, look,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: our salvation God is greater than when it says if
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: our heart condemns us, God is greater if our heart
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: or emotions condemn us if they make us feel unsaved
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: or unworthy, or insecure, or a lack of assurance of salvation,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: God's truth is greater. At the end of the day.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: The Bible says God knows those who are His, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: it also says that if we confess with our mouth
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: that Jesus Lord, and believe in our heart that God
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: raised from the dead, we will be saved. And so
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day. Romans ten nine is
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I would tell that person, have you put your faith
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: and trust in Jesus. Yes, yes, okay, well you don't
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: need to do it one hundred times. Run, you know,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: take God's word, implant it in your heart and believe it.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Because even the faith of a mustard, see Jesus says
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: does moves mountains right, And so that what I would
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: say is don't let the enemy. Revelation twelve says that
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Satan is the one who accuses us. So when those
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: thoughts come in of accusing you of maybe being unworthy,
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: you just need to say, look, I have I'm not perfect.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: That's exactly I qualify for the Gospel. So every time
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Satan reminds you of your imperfections, say thank you for
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: reminding me that I qualify and that Jesus died for me.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And so I have put my faith in trust. And
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: so ultimately what it comes down to is do you
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: believe them or not not? Do you believe in God?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Do you believe God? God said, if you trust my son,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: then you're saved. John ten twenty eight. I know my
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: sheep and they shall never perish. And Jesus knows us,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and so we're in his hand. It says, they're in
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: my father's hand, and no one's greater than my father,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: and they can't pluck him up. So I would just
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: encourage that person to say, look, if you truly have
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: put your faith in trust in Jesus, the raptures in
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: your future guaranteed. Because why Titus one, verse two, God
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: is not a liar.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Well, the apostle John was raptured. He talks about Revelation.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: We've mentioned that two or three times. And then what
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I wanted is to add and I think that I
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: would say this to that hypothetical individual who's a little
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: bit worried. I would say to him, have you read
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation through It's easy to read. You
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: can read it. You may not understand all of.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: It right now, you can at least read it.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Just read it. Have you read it? And he says, no,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: go read Revelation and you will read that justice will
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: be done. There is an evil component to this world
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: caused by Satan. That's all going to be destroyed, and
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: all of God's people are going to convene for a
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: kingdom age and after that a new heavens and a
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: new Earth, and I and you're all you're going to
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: be a part of that whole thing. And it's going
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: to begin when you're resurrected, and you're going to be
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: part of something you is so huge, the new Jerusalem,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: for example, a city, Well, what does that thing look like?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: How is it let down? Does in orbit the earth
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: and talk about things like this. You're going to be
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a part of that, and it's going to be a perfect,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: beautiful environment. And you're you have having received Christ, have
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: just started your journey, and it can only get better
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: from here on. Oh there may be a couple setbacks,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: but it can only get better.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I remember very very specifically when I crossed over, I mean,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: from salvation. It's one thing, but when I when I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: crossed over from doubting, questioning my salvation, going back and
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: forth to assurance, and that was wonderful. And and of course,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: you know, Paul says Roman six, Oh, since we're saved,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: you know, if grace abound, should we go sin? No?
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: You know, God forbid. So it wasn't that I came
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: to the point of going, oh, well, I'm gonna do
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: whatever I want. But I came to the realization that
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: even as much as I might screw up, that God
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: has rescued me. He John five twenty four I was
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: transferred from death over into life, and that Romans eight one.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: There's now now, at this present moment, there's therefore no
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: condemnation for those who are in Christ. To me, I
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: remember going, okay, no, I do believe, and I have
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: made that that I've repented of my sins. I put
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: my faith in trust in Jesus, and I believe and
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I can be confident of that that God keeps his promises.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And God didn't say, Okay, I saved you, now go
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: be perfect. WHOA. That's that's that's refreshing. And I've grew
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: it up quite a bit. And yet you know, for
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Seohn one nine tells us that if we confess our sins,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: He's faithful and just to cleanse us and forgive us
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: and purify us from all of our unrighteousness. So that
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: has been a wonderful promise. I've lived a lot with
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: First John one nineteen. I memorize that verse early because
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I needed it a lot. But thankfully we have the
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: promise that again Jesus. I know my sheep, they hear
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: my voice. I give them maternal life and they'll never perish. Oh,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I tell people memorized Scripture, John
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: twenty eight, John ten twenty eight, Romans eight one first,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: John three twenty. Memorize these passages because if you hide
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: the word in your heart, doubt just has a way
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: we replace the truth or the lies with truth, because
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Satan's a whisper, even ourselves love to whisper things.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: You know, we have in Revelation a picture. We have
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: a picture of the throne of God. We have a
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: picture of the angels, the Cheru beam grand gathering. It's
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: preceded by the rapture of the church. And I don't
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: think we say that often enough. In other words, when
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: you're caught up to be in heaven and your glorified body,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I think you're going to be prepared for something. Somebody's
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: going to sit you down and they're going to say, Carrie,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: what you're about to see is what humanity has been
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: waiting for for thousands of years, and it is the
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: judgment of all of those who have tried to break
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: down God's creation. And it's going to be a glorious,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: glorious event. Now here's what you have to do. And
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: they'll tell you where to go, where to sit down,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: where this is all going to convene at what time,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: and you're going to wait. I can't remember all that,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: but you're going to be part of what we've all
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: been waiting for, which is justice to be done. And
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: that's the beautiful part of the Bible. It starts out
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: with what some people call original sin and it ends
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  Speaker 1: up with justice.
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  Speaker 2: Being and God's holiness being vindicated.
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  Speaker 1: And that, to me is where it is.
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, in our last few minutes here,
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  Speaker 2: I would love to read this gariot because you know,
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  Speaker 2: we've kind of in my mind, we've saved the best
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  Speaker 2: for last, and that is John fourteen, yes, verse one
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  Speaker 2: through three. And here this is the heart of Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: I mean this amazing. Here Jesus knows he's about ready
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  Speaker 2: to be betrayed, he's about ready to be arrested and
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  Speaker 2: then killed the next day. And so we saw earlier
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  Speaker 2: or what we'll actually see after this passage where he's
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  Speaker 2: praying in the garden. But his heart is heavy. We
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  Speaker 2: know that his heart is heavy. But here is typical
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  Speaker 2: Jesus style. He is concerned about their heart and he says,
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  Speaker 2: you know, let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God.
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  Speaker 2: Believe also in me. In my father's house are many rooms.
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  Speaker 2: If it were not so what I have told you,
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  Speaker 2: that I go to prepare a place for you. And
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  Speaker 2: if I go and prepare a place for you, I
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  Speaker 2: will come again and I will take you to myself.
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  Speaker 2: And the literally the Greek where Parrel Lombano hears, I
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  Speaker 2: will receive you to myself. It's like a hug. That
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  Speaker 2: that's when you receive, you know, a person that you love,
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  Speaker 2: You're receiving them into your arms. He says, I will
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  Speaker 2: take you. I will receive you to myself. That where
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  Speaker 2: I am you may be also, and you know the
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  Speaker 2: way to where I'm going. And then Thomas says, Lord,
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  Speaker 2: we don't know the way. But the point is is
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  Speaker 2: he says I'm leaving. Because later he talks about leaving,
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  Speaker 2: They're like, where are you going? But Jesus says, look, guys,
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  Speaker 2: in my father's house are many rooms. I'm leaving and
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to go there in my father's house, which
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  Speaker 2: is in heaven, and I'm going to prepare a place
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  Speaker 2: for you. Because so then when I come back, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to gather you and receive you into my arms.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm going to go back to my I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to take you with me back to my father's house,
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  Speaker 2: so that where I am in heaven with his father,
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  Speaker 2: you will be to me. There's no other way for
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  Speaker 2: this passage to be interpreted. I think then a pre
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  Speaker 2: trib position. I mean, some people might say, well, we're
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  Speaker 2: there for half of the time, maybe if you're Midjib
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  Speaker 2: or pre wrath, but Jesus post rib they can't answer this.
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  Speaker 2: But you know what's amazing about this is that it's
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  Speaker 2: like where Paul says in the first Sicilians four and
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  Speaker 2: so we will be with the Lord forever. I can't
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  Speaker 2: wait to be received into the arms of the Lord.
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  Speaker 2: And then he gives us a tour of the father's
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  Speaker 2: house with its many rooms. I mean, this is a
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  Speaker 2: tremendous personal intimate comfort for us.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed it is. And as you read on down in
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  Speaker 1: John fourteen, Thomas asks Jesus a question. I love this
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  Speaker 1: part of the RB. Lord, we know where you're going,
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  Speaker 1: but how can we know the way? Thomas is a
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  Speaker 1: practical man. He's a practical and there are a lot
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  Speaker 1: of us like that today, And like, how do I
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  Speaker 1: get there? Uh? Listen, I may get lost and Jesus
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  Speaker 1: answers with this famous answer, I am the Way, the
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  Speaker 1: truth and the life. No man come with under the Father,
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  Speaker 1: but by me or through me inter wards. He is
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  Speaker 1: our channel to the Father, and that is a way
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  Speaker 1: that is wide open as we speak.
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  Speaker 2: Amen, Gary, I mean this. That's a great way to
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  Speaker 2: end it. You know the uh you've been listening to
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  Speaker 2: the Prophecy Watchers podcast here, Gary and I have been
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  Speaker 2: chatting about the wonder of the rapture and the resurrection
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  Speaker 2: which is in the person's future anybody who loves the
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  Speaker 2: Lord Jesus and is looking forward to his appearing. So Gary,
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  Speaker 2: this has been great.
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  Speaker 1: It has been thanks a lot, Mando love to talk
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  Speaker 1: to you.
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  Speaker 2: Amen. Thank you everybody for listening, and we'll catch you
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  Speaker 2: next time.