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Doggerland: Lost at Sea · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a good
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: old fashioned episode of Stuff you Should Know. It's got
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: history as geology has lost lands, it has abbreviations like KYA,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: all sorts of great stuff in it.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, my friend. If I know Josh Clark loves
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: something it is submerged or lost.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Lands, it really is.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: I know this kind of thing really really float your boat.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It does. It floats my submerged land. We're talking about
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Dogger Land, by the way, everybody.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: That's right, we should probably just say kind of what
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: it is first, right before we get into the details.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked about it here there. I could not,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: for the life of me remember what episode, but it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: come up once or twice, but I think it bears
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: repeating for sure.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a you know, a lost land, a submerged
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: land mass off the coast of Europe. It's in the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: North Sea, probably anywhere from fifty to sixty to one
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: hundred feet down and it used to be a you know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: it used to be land. It used to connect they
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: pretty much firmly believe now connect the UK and Europe.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: And not only that, but was a land where that
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: kind of flourished depending on when you're talking about with
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: plants and animals and even people.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they think that it's possible. So this was really
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: populated during the Mesolithic area or era and the area.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: They think that this area during the Mesolithic era was
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: one of the most densely populated places in all of Europe.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And by the way, did you ever see Taylor Swift
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: on her area's tour.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't, but I can feel a Taylor Swift area
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: coming on.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Eventually she through the concert. She sort of walked the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: audience through all of her different areas.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: This is my knee, the left one, knees and toes,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: knees and toes.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it sounds kind of like, wait,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: that's it. There's like a land mass that once connected
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: the UK and Europe.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: That's enough.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Like you can see somebody making an absurd or obscene
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: hand motion talk thinking about that, right, but.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: No, listen exactly what you're saying.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Stick with us, because this is it's fantastically interesting. Even
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: though we know very very little about it. The stuff
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: we do know is so tantalizing that it's like the
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: archaeologists who are studying this are just they want to
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: just say, like, so bad, there's so much stuff down there,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: we just know it. But they're they're being deliberate and methodical,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: so they're not letting themselves say that. But we can
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: say it for them.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's called Doggerland and that's just cool. It
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: sounds like a movie title or something.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: You know, it does starring Lily Tomlin, you know, the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: younger one Alan, No.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Not that young von stup. No, why is her name
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: con Taylor?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Oh really, she was.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: In a movie called maybe dog Face or something like
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: that or.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Dog Oh yeah, dog Dogfight.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter. We should probably edit this out.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: If we were a different podcast, we would edit this.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Man, I came up with like four or five lilies.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: You got to leave that in, Okay, true, true dah.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: But I don't even remember how I got on the
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Lily thing.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I said it would be a good movie, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you reckon that Lily Taylor would be a good Oh
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: star yet that movie?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Because you were talking about it's a cool name and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: The name comes after the Dogger Bank, which is a
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: shallow fishing area, very productive fishing area in the North Sea.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: And the Dogger Bank is named after a type of
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Dutch cod fishing boats that were used for hundreds of
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: years in the area. So there you go, Doggerland.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: That's right. I hope we got all that right.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: But it's a pretty shallow sea as far as seas go,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: about two hundred and twenty thousand square miles, and it
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: sits in between the UK and Europe, of course, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: because if there was a land bridge that connected those two,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: that's where the North Sea would be. It has long
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: been a very crucial shipping route and trade route. And
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: as for this story, you know, it's pretty key that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties and then sixties gas and oil
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: reservoirs were found there and companies started licking their chops.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: And they will come into play later, oil companies and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: gas companies being as being actually in you know, finally
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: kind of key to helping out science, you know, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: scientists and their explorations.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that will come in later. It's also there's
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of shipping that goes on apparently that's a
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: very ancient thing. People have been shipping things over the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: North Sea for a very long time, and then now
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: it's become a really attractive site for renewable energy, as
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: we'll see. So the North Sea is very important and
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: it's been used for a very long time, but its
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: depths were just unknown, like people hadn't explored it. They
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: didn't have the means to really.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even though it's fairly shallow, it's still deep for
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: back then.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred feet what are you going to do?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Hold your breath exactly. I mean the moment you get
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: down on the bottom of you if you come right
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: back up, it's terrible for exploration holding your breath this. Yeah,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: but there were some tantalizing clues that came up over
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the years that did strongly suggest that there was something
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: down there that had once been above the sea's surface.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: That's right. The first thing that happened late nineteenth century.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: They started, you know, better fishing technology came along and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: you could fish a little bit deeper. So they started
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: fishing a little bit deeper, which is great because you
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: can get you know, a lot more fish down there.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: But it was kind of a pain because they started
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: dragging up what they called moor log, which is, you know, pete,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: this kind of nasty clump together pete. And in that
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: pete sometimes they would find animal bones, not fishbones, but
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: like mammal bones, and I guess it was a nineteenth
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: century so it just sort of hassled their fishing progress.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So they would just usually toss them overboard. Occasionally, if
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: they had some like really well preserved you know, skull
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: or deer femur or something like that, they might keep it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But that's when the first sort of whisperings of like
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: something used to be down there started happening.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly and then in usual fashion, it's worth mentioning H. G. Wells.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It was probably one of the best speculators in the
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: history of speculative fiction.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: This is pretty cool.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: He heard about some of those fines and he wrote
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: a story called the Story of the Stone Age, which
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: is basically like, there's a continent under the North Sea
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: between the UK and Europe.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Don't forget right.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: This guy is the guy who in the late nineteenth
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: century wrote stories about humans sending rockets up into space. Yeah,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: and placed the launches at Cape Canaverl. Like, that's how
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: smart this guy was. As far as seeing in the
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: future goes, I love it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He's pretty great writer too.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Interesting, dude, man, we should do one on HG. Wells.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: He deserves his own show, I think. Okay, all right,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: all right, moving on, as we crawl through Noah's Woods. Now,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: before the nineteenth century and those bones and that morlog
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Pete started coming up, there were whispers then, I said,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the first whispers came in the late nineteenth century. It's
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: not exactly true because during low tide, way back when
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the water levels would drop, and some of these folks
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: living in the UK at the time would see these
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: tree stumps and this is like medieval times, and they
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: called it Noah's Woods, with the idea that this was,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you know, possibly the area where Noah from the Bible
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: lived before God decided to flood the earth because he
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: was grumpy.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And here was plane right in your face evidence
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: of it. So that had stuck around since the medieval age,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and apparently, according to UK or early British low this
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: is where Robinson Caruso, who was the model for Robin Hood,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: emerged from the water and gave Arthur the sword and
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the stone.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: That's right, So Noah's Woods was.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Just kind of like a local thing. I'm sure the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: churchy types really talked about it more than anybody else,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: but scientists hadn't paid much attention to it until a
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: very forward thinking scientist and his wife, Clement and Eleanor Reid,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: came forward and they started looking into it, and they
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: kind of were the first people to put together Noah's Woods,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the fact that there are tree stumps, weirdly ancient ones
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: in the sea. People are pulling up animal bones for
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: terrestrial animals.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Pulling up pretty obvious what's happening.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, there is something submerge that used to
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: be above the water, and we think it's a land
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: bridge that connected the UK and Europe.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they and I noticed there were a couple of scientists,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: married couples that worked on this along the area.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: It's kind this is a golden age for that.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: In nineteen thirteen they published Submerged Forests, which was the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: very first study on those woods, and yeah, that's when
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: they really kind of put it out there and it
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: was you know, it was the kind of thing where
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: they didn't have any hard evidence other than these peat samples.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: But when they started finding like willow leaves and hazel
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and birch and fern. They were like, hey, not only
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: do I think there was something down there, but it
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: seems to have existed at least partially at a time.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: That was like maybe kind of nice. Yeah, they like, temperature.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Wise, sounds pretty nice. Actually, I'd like to live in
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: dogger Land, but it wasn't called Doggerland yet, as we'll see.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So the Reeds had this pretty great theory. Apparently. I
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: read that they concluded that the only possible explanation for
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: this was that sea level rise had flooded and sunk
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: in this land. So they were really red on the money.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: But this is a very obscure theory. People weren't paying
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: much attention to it, even in academic circles. It was
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: pretty obscure. But then there was a discovery in nineteen
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: thirty one that really grabbed the archaeologists in the area
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: by the throat, shook them to their tongues turned blue
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and hung out of their mouths, and it said, look
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: at this, this is important.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Did you say nineteen thirty one, because that's when it
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was That's when a trawler called the Kalinda was fishing
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: off the coast of Norfolk came along and again a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: big old chunk of morlog was hauled in in the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: net and they were digging through that. And this guy's
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: got a great name. The skipper of the Clinda's name
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: was Pilgrim Lockwood.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So good. I would say that's a hotel check in name,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: but it's just a little too eye catching.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: That's too suspicious.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is pretty suspicious.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, hi, Pilgrim Lockwood checking in. Yeah, okay, buddy,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: what's your real name? And who do you think you are?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: So Pilgrim Lockwood is busting up this peete with his shovel,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: just like out of a movie. Hits something hard, reaches
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: in and finds and this is the kind of discovery
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, like you said, everyone's going
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to be like, okay, there's really something happening here. Because
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it was an eight and a half inch long harpoon head,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a harpoon point carved with hands out of an antler.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: But here's the At first they were like, okay, I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: mean this is kind of cool, and they even offered
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it to the British Museum, but they said, nah, we've
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: got some harpoons.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: We're all set. We got a couple of them.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the idea was that everyone thought like, hey,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: this is probably just was lost over the side of
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: a boat or something.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: What's the big deal.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like pretty cool. I mean, like, don't throw
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: it back on it. Yeah, because it was very clearly
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: fashioned by humans. I think in addition to just being
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: smoothed out to be fashioned into a harpoon, I think
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: it was decorated as well, so there's no arguing that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: it was a human artifact. It had been found in
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: a moorlog so a chunk of pete, and then somebody
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: along the way, another married couple, Harry and Margaret Godwin, said,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: let us see that pete. We have a little hypothesis
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: we want to test. And they looked at that pete
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and they said, everybody, get this. That pete was formed
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: in a fresh water environment, meaning that it could only
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: have been formed above the sea's surface on land in
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a wetland, but on land, and the harpoon being in
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: there means that a human was on land above the
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: sea's surface when they were using it, and it they
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: lost it in the peat.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I picture Margaret Godwin just storming in
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the room and saying that didn't fall off of any boat.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: And then even better, the British Museum gets in touch
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: with Pilgrim Lockwood after this and he's like, well, well,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: well look who's come crawling back.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been pretty great actually. Yeah. So
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: they used a pollen analysis to figure this out, and
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: later on they were able to date this thing in
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: this harpoon head they found was about fourteen thousand years
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: old neat, which would place it kind of squarely in
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the Mesolithic.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Era, well about toward the beginning of it, I think.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Because this was this is in the area.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: It's a sweee, it's a squishy one. And the other
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: thing that's so exciting about Doggerland and finding stuff out
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: about it is we have very little information about Mesolithic
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: people of this area of the time.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, everybody.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: In addition to all that chuck, there were some more
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: things that came up during the twentieth century that were
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: like this, this is there's something really interesting down there.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: They were finding bits of textile. Yeah, they found a
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Neanderthal skull fragment that they managed to It was between
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: seventy thousand and forty thousand years old. We'll talk about
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: it a little later, but there's a facial reconstruction, you
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: know they love to do like the three d oh. Yeah,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: they have the guy smiling, just a huge, big, sweet
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: goofy smile. And I thought that was a nice touch.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always nice. That's like when they recreated what
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: they thought Jesus would really look like, and he looked
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like he was on the Simpsons or something.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Right, or he's doing the eyewink and the double guns.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I've seen that before too.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's classic.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But despite all the fines, kind of throughout the twentieth century,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: they still the scientific community still were like, okay, so
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: there were people there, but like this was just they
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: were just traveling along the road like nobody lived there.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: They were rambling on.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: They were rambling on through the area and the era.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: And maybe we.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Should take a break. Yeah, all right, we'll be right
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: back with more on dogger Land. All right, So you
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: mentioned before the break at some point that Doggerland was
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: not named Doggerland. At this point, it would be I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: think nineteen ninety eight before that name would finally be coined.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And again, this was still like just sort of the
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: scientific community that was pretty excited. Like even the broader
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: archaeological community was still not super pumped on this area yet.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: They were studying it in the seventies.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: But in the nineteen ninety eight a archaeologist name Brionny
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Coles put out a paper called Doggerland colon a speculative
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: survey wherein And this is what made the scientific community
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: kind of say, like, ooh, what's she talking about. She
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: named it Doggerland after that sand bank, the Dogger Bank,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like you were talking about.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: And she's the first one that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Said, you know what, everyone, I think people like lived here,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and I think it was kind of pretty awesome.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was in a land bridge. This is essentially
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: like it was an extension of the European continent and
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of people lived there and a lot of
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: stuff happened there.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: And maybe she busted into the room and said that
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: was no land bridge.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, and there's this this collection of archaeologists
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and scholars and it's getting increasingly elbow to elbow in
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: there and hot because there's no ac for some reason
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: in this room. Okay, and it's July, and there's a
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: lot of rotting fish in the in the room too
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: for some reason.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a weird edition. Everyone wondered about this fish.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then somebody is eating leftovers of Vietnamese food
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: and that's loaded with shrimp paste.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Oh man, that shrimp paste.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And then there's one guy who's got leather patches on
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: his elbows and it's chafing the people on either side
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: of him. Oh God, be wearing short sleeves.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Neil always wears that thing.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So it's really difficult to get across how groundbreaking Briany
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Cole's study was because she was working with really minimal information.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I saw that she went to the extent of like
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: collecting anecdotes from old fishermen who had brought up stuff
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: where they were trawling, like, and she took all this
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: and put it together, and not only like just wrote
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a book like hey, get this, this is what's really
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: down there. She created maps of what Doggerland would have
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: looked like, not just once, but throughout different areas of
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the time period that it was above water. So what
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: she did was an amazing triumph of intellect. Like it's
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: really tough to get across, Like, how big a deal
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: what she did was, and that's why people started to
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: get into Doggerlank because it was so convincing too.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you know, these these different little pictures
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: of different points in time. She said, Hey, I think
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: during the Paleolithic it might have gone all the way
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: from the Shetland Islands of Scotland to the Netherlands. Maybe
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I think during the Holocene period that sea began to
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: rise and it became an island for a while. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: then finally she put it at fifty five hundred BC.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: She figured it disappeared entirely. We've seen anywhere between five
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven thousand years ago is what people speculate.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: But she even despite all that, was like, hey, this
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is just I'm speculating here, everybody. Much later, a archaeologist
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: named Vincent Gaffney, along with a graduate student named Simon
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Fitch Fitch or Finch, yeah, Fitch in two thousand and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: one got on the scene, and after about eight years
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of work, Gaffney said, you know what, she was reasonably
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: correct with all this stuff.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nice, nice work.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And Gaffney was in a really good position to say
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that because, like you said, he worked for years and
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: years and years on a project that he had come
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: up with with Simon Fitch. That was pretty clever. Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: they were like, there are a lot of oil exploration
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: companies that have been like mapping the seafloor of the
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: North Sea for decades. Now, surely they have some amazing
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: data sets that they'll share with us. So they started
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: going around to oil companies and they finally found one, actually,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Petroleum Geo Services, and PGS said sure, we'll share, We'll
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: share a little bit of our undersea mapping with you,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: and they gave them data for twenty three thousand square
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: kilometers of the North Sea and Vincent Gaffney feinted, but
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: luckily Simon Fitch was there to catch him. And that
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: was just that was what Simon Fitch is all about.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: He's always there to catch you.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And this was a situation where like to the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: oil company, they were like, let's just give him a
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: little bit of our stuff and maybe they'll stop calling us.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Archaeology Magazine later called that the largest geophysical survey ever
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: made available to archaeologists.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Pretty cool.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: So that's sort of the.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Difference between the sort of the oil company sector and
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the scientific community and what they consider a little bit
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: of data.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was really groundbreaking for underwater archaeology because
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: this was underwater archaeology this point was like dive down
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: in scuba gear, hope you find something there. There were
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: some techniques where you can actually kind of excavate something
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: that's close to the surface. They have big vacuums that
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: they go through the silt that's taken up on board
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: the ship above. So it's not like it was just
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: completely just a concept at the time, but this really
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: opened it up, this underwater mapping. But Simon Fitch and
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Vincent Gaffney found out these maps are the resolutions not
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: enough to be like there's a site, there's a site,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a look that skeletons waving at us, let's go investigate there,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: but it was enough to give it give them a
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: big picture of Doggerland and it was very clear that
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: this was not just some land bridge. This was Yeah.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Again like it essentially a new country that they had
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: discovered under the sea, and they were able to match
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that with existing finds. Yeah, like they're like, well, there's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: this masted on skull found over here, and that makes
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: sense that it would be here, so let's kind of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: look for humans over there. That's the kind of technique
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that they managed to come up with.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And in the end they basically said, we think this
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: was not only were there people here, but they think
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: it was quote a significant Mesolithic population. And you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it was, like you said, it was pretty groundbreaking. I
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: thought we did an episode on underwater.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Archaeology, but I think.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: It might have just been that I wrote that article
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: for HowStuffWorks dot Com back in the day.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Oh we should do that then, Eh, No, okay.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was something I wrote. Not
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: sure it's.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Now are You've written tons of good stuff?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Oh you're sweet in twenty twenty two, well, I guess
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: we should mention. In twenty fourteen, Gaffney started working at
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the University of Bradford and he founded the Submerged Landscape
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Research Group there because he was dogged about Doggerland. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: then eventually in twenty twenty two, I guess.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Seven this years later.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Eight years later he joined the Unpathed Waters Research Project
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and that was a pretty cool initiative to make the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: maritime history of the United Kingdom just kind of put
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: it out there for the public to digest.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so did you check this map out.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Yeahs cool, Yeah.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: It is. So the resolution is it's very like Pitfall.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It's that level of bit resolution. The reason why is
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: because if they took all the data that they actually
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: have and rendered it in some sort of way that
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: looked kind of whiz bang, it would crash your computer
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the moment you started to try to load it, right. Yeah,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So they had to because there's so much information that
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: they have, they had to kind of narrow it back
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: down into that kind of lower resolution version. But the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: stuff that it does is amazing. Like you can go
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: forward in time, backward in time, you can see the
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: sea level rise and fall. You can actually control people
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: by setting up a camp and then sitting back and
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: watching what they do. And if there's like a caribou
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: or a moose or something nearby, they'll go kill it
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and then they process the carcass and that just does
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: all this different super cool stuff. It's definitely worth checking out.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: The Unpathed Waters, undreamed sure Lines.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I think, wow, that's a very pretty name.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Uh should we take another break and talk about what
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: was there? Uh?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take let's take that break, all right, Chuck.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: So ever since Briany Coles came up with the dogger
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Land Speculative Maps, and Vincent Gaffney and Simon Finch and
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: all of the projects that they've worked on have have
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: you know, improved that information. In addition to all that,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: more and more artifacts have been coming up, and apparently
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: there's a good working relationship between archaeologists who are studying
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Doggerland and the trawling fishermen who bring in these fines.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Because before it was like, hey, check out this, this
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: uh what they call the moorlogs, this big chunk of
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and look there's a probably what a mastet on tooth,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: is that what that is? And they'd say, well, where'd
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: you get this? Andy'd be like, I don't know. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: was over somewhere in the East North Sea and that
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: didn't help very much. But now that they've kind of
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: formed this relationship with these fishermen, the fishermen are like, well,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: here's the here's the GPS data for where we pulled
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that up. And now that our underwater archaeologists can go
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: and look and say like, yep, this this seems like
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a good site to explore the problem is this the
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the this area is so covered in sediment that even
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: for underwater archaeology. This is a challenging place to find
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: artifacts because there's so many rivers that flow into the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: North Sea, and unlike rivers that flow into the ocean,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that sediment doesn't just disperse. It gets trapped between the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: UK and Europe, so it just settles and there's a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: lot of sediment on top.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very messy scene, but nevertheless they have persevered and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: learned a lot about what was there through these spines.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, they were trying to you know, they're
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what plants and animals were there,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and they figured Hey, during the Younger Dryas, which we
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: all know now because we did that episode very recently
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: on the Younger Dryas.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: That was a happy episode too.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: They said Doggerland was a tundra. It was just ferns
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: and shrubs and grasses. The climate started warming over the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: course of thousands of years and during the preboreal period,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the Holocene, there were birch and pine trees and all
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of a sudden it went from a tundra to a forest.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And then later during the actual boreal period, birds got
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: replaced by hazel and you got these freshwater lakes which
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: is you know, early on, remember when they found that
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: they did the pollen analysis and they found the freshwater evidence,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: so that kind of explains that. And as far as
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the animals living there, that is shifting along with the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: climate basically over the period of you know, tens and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because those animals were adapted to the ice age,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and so when the younger drives was like ice age
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: is back. Those animals hadn't died out yet, so they're like, awesome,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: we got another thirteen hundred years. But after the younger
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: dryas ended and the ice age finally came to an
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: end about eleven six hundred years ago, the things like
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the wooly rhinoceros and mammoths and reindeer had really nowhere
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: to go and largely died off or else migrated northward
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and they were replaced by while boar birds came along,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: which is always a good thing. Otters showed up if yeah,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: if you've ever seen otter holding hands with another otter,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: you're glad that those otters showed up. Beavers one of
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: our favorite animal episodes. It was just a huge change
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: in not only the vegetation but also the animal life,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: and the animal life also included humans too.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I mean we mentioned there were people there, and there
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: were the first hominids there. Well they weren't human actually,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: so I sort of misspoke. But they were called Homo antecessor,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: which was the predecessor to humans, and they were there
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: about eight hundred thousand years ago. And then finally, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: we mentioned that Neanderthal fragment skull fragment they moved in
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: when Doggerland was a tundra, and I guess it was
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one when they found that skull fragment.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: This is off the coast of the Netherlands and they
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: named this one. I love it when they name these,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: you know, ancient humans. But I'm not even going to
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: try and pronounce it. It's kr i j n. I'm
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: not sure how you would say that in Dutch.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I saw that it was one syllable, so I'm not
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: sure either. But it's not krijan like I was saying
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that Jay's got to be silent, right, it does something weird, Yeah, it.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Does something weird. But they reckon that fossil. They dated
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: it to about seventy thousand years old, and they said
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: this guy probably ate a lot of meat as his diet,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: maybe some fish, but definitely was chouned down on some
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: pretty good food. And then you know, they found all
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: sorts of stuff over the years on the coast of
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the Netherlands. Netherlands, just like a bone point or an
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: axe or any kind of carved pointed you know, arrowhead
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: or harpoon head would just wash up on shore.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is some of the evidence that we have
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: that Neanderthals were pretty smart and actually well adapted or
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: suited to cold climates. So they were still around during
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: the younger dryest humans had kind of come along before
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the younger dryas the younger dryis came along, they beat
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: him back. And then finally after the younger dryas, Homo
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: sapiens really start to show up. Yeah, I think as
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: early as I fourteen thousand years ago. And again this
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: is the beginning of the Mesolithic in Europe, and they
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: were hunter gatherers. They just basically migrated westward from continental
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Europe because they could get there by walking from Europe
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: to the UK. And they were like this Doggerland place
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: is pretty nice. We're gonna stick around here.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, for a while they were migrating around,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: following the animals, going where the food was. But they said,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: you know, they're basically like anyone else from that time
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: in that place, from that era and area. Man, this
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: is really just fitting together like a glove.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: You know, I love it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: They were, you know, carving things from stone, carving things
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: from antlers we have direct evidence of both, and animal
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: bones that were wearing animal skins. But they said they
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: think eventually, like you said, they decided like, hey, this
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: place is nice, let's set up camp here and maybe
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: even farmed there.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is where the transition from the Mesolithic
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: to the Neolithic happens. It's pretty much what they consider
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: the change or the beginning of the Neolithic was when
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: people started farming, and that happened on dogger Land. This
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: is where they essentially found the place that they could
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: grow crops. It was warmer then around this time than
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: it was than it is now in that area, so
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: they were very easily raising crops, figuring it out as
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: they went along. So that because they were raising crops,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: they were more sedentary, which means that their populations grew
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: a little larger. So some of the things they're starting
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: to find are like evidence of villages. There's a really
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: amazing underwater archaeological site called Boldener Cliff off the Isle
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: of Wight, and they've found what seems to be like
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: a dock that probably went out into an ancient river.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: There was like burials there, houses and pits, like, there's
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of really cool stuff. And this is a
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: really tantalizing view of and I can't use that word
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: enough in this episode, tantalizing. This is a tantalizing view
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: of all the stuff that's probably probably underwater throughout Doggerland.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess we should talk about why it's
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: underwater this, you know, I think we already kind of
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: gave it away that it didn't happen all at once.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: It happened over hundreds of thousands of years, little by
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: little glaciers of melting.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Sea levels are rising.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: And there's you know, like I said, estimates anywhere from
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: five thousand to eight thousand years ago or seven thousand
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: rather of when people think it finally like you know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: was completely submerged, and it may not, you know, it
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: may have become so uninhabitable, you know, long before that,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: maybe even thousands of years before that.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Why well, I mean, there's a couple of theories.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: There's a tsunami theory that says about eight thousand years
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: ago there were a bunch of massive tsunamis that you know,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: pummeled the coast of Britain and completely wiped out Doggerland,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and they were caused by these submarine landslides in the
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Norwegian Sea called the Storrega slides. But Gaffney was like,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: It was that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think it was a climate change because I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: think Doggerland itself, like he didn't doubt the tsunamis happened,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: but he said, I think Doggerland itself was kind of
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: protected by the wooded, hilly terrain.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but still a lot of people would have died
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: because they think that the tsunami swept twenty five miles inland,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: which is yes, a lot of settlements that you can
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: take out twenty five miles in And I don't know
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: if you remember, but in our Younger Driest episode we
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: talked about isostatic rebound or adjustment, where the glaciers and
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: ice sheets were so heavy that they actually pushed the
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: earth downward and it took some areas of land down
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: with it, like Scotland, but it raised other areas up,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: kind of like if you put a bowling ball on
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: a mattress, which you know you usually do, and one
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: of the areas that got raised up was Doggerland, right,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: So when the glaciers melted, Doggerland started to sink. And
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: then in addition to that, the glaciers melting made the
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: sea levels rise, which is why this stuff was happening
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: so quickly. They think that possibly sea level rise was
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: happening as fast as a meter over a century, which
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound like much, but right now the sea level
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: rise we're worried about is happening like thirty centimeters a century,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: so that is a really fast sea level rise. So
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: it's not like it would have caught people off guard,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: but their way of life would have been disrupted pretty
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: significantly by the tsunamis and the sea level rise.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw even you know, potentially up to two
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: meters per century. So that's you know, super fast.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Super that's like twice as fast at least. So as
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: the as the sea levels rose and Doggerland sank, Scotland,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: by the way, is still rising. The land wasn't just
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: some flat mass there were highlands, there were hills and
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: all that. So little by little it was submerged, and
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: they think that the last bit was probably Dogger's Bank,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: because so it's one of the most shallow parts of
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: the North Sea. And by the time it was completely submerged,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: all the people who had moved upward in the British
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Isles were now officially British. They were cut off from
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Europe now for the first time. Like you said, that
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: was between five thousand and seven thousand years ago.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: These days there's sort of a new threat to the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: idea of a lot more science happening there because of
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: those wind farms you mentioned early on. It's a pretty
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: great area for wind farming, but it's threatening, you know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: parts of the North Sea. Like we said, it's fairly
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: shallow as far as seas go, and there's lots of
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: great wind there. And the plan is by twenty thirty
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: that the southern part of the North Sea is just
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: going to be riddled with wind farms. The downside of that,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, this great renewable energy, but the downside is
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that this stuff is really disruptive to the ecology there
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: and certainly disruptive to all those dogger Land sites that
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: they're still hoping to explore.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was reading that because the North Sea is
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: so shallow, the kind of wind farms that they can
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: put in can actually be bolted to the bedrock, which
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: is way cheaper than like the floating version. So they're
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: salivating over putting wind farms there. But again, that means
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that they're bolting wind turbines to Doggerland, which is nay
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: good for the archaeological aspect. It's naggd right, that's exactly right,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: So they don't. I mean, it seems like these wind
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: farms are going on. Stupid wind farms, always ruining the
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: environment for everybody. Yeah, and I don't know that anybody's
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: going to be able to change it, because everybody thinks
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Dogland's cool, but not necessarily disrupt progress as far as
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: renewable energy goes cool. Yeah, so I guess that's it
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: for Doggerlin.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Chuck said, that's right, which means everybody, it's time for
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: listener mail.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: This is from Andy. Hey, guys, been listening since COVID
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I've heard your entire library, and I've almost
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: agreed with everything that Chuck says. I think it was
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: a title brother from another mother. We're close in age,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: so we have similar childhood memories. And this morning, when
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Chuck brought up the guitar solo from my Sharona, I
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: knew that we were made from the same cloth, because
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: for many years now I've touted that guitar solo as
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: my most favorite.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Solo of all time. Wow, I'm glad here, though.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not alone. So thank you Chuck for being like
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a brother to me. On another note, you failed to
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: mention the true father of AM radio guys, Nikola Tesla.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Tesla actually patented the technology before Marconi did, make him
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the actual father of radio. Marconi quote bothered end quote
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Tesla's technology and ran with it. And he was just
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: a much better businessman than Tesla, so he was able
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: to monetize the technology, earning him the notoriety that he
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: has today.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Is the father of radio.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: So Jefferson's Starships should have said, Tesla plays the mambo.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Tesla played the mamba.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: It works.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: It would have worked. Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Read many books on Nikola Tesla and his inventions and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: find him one of the most fascinating men of all time.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Without him we might not have had such things as
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the remote control of robotics and wireless transmission.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Thanks for everything, guys.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: You make my commute to work relaxing and educational three
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: days of the week.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: And that is Andy McDonald.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Thanks Andy, that was a good email. Surely then, if
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: you've listened to our back catalog you're aware of the
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Electricity Wars we went over with Edison Tesla, but I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: feel like Tesla could definitely stand his own episode two.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe, Okay, Well, let's see if you want to get
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: in touch with this, like Andy, you can do that,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Send us an email and say whatever you want. Send
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah,