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Ron Klain · The David Rubenstein Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Perhaps the toughest job in Washington is not being President
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: United States. It's actually being Chief of staff to the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: President of the United States. The average chief of staff
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to the President of the United States lasts about eighteen months.
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  Speaker 1: I sat down recently with Ron Klain, the current Chief
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  Speaker 1: of Staff to the President United States, and asked him
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  Speaker 1: what this job actually entails and why it's so difficult.
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  Speaker 1: For those who don't know Ron's background, it's quite amazing.
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  Speaker 1: He's actually served his country for many, many years, and
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  Speaker 1: among those positions are Chief Council for the Senate Judiciary
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  Speaker 1: Committee under then Chairman Joe Biden, Associate Council for Judicial
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  Speaker 1: Selection under President Clinton, Chief of Staff and Counselor to
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  Speaker 1: the Attorney General Janet Reno, Staff director of the Senate
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  Speaker 1: Democratic Leadership Committee under Leader Tom Dashell, and chief of
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  Speaker 1: staff to Vice President Al Gore. In addition, uh He
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  Speaker 1: also served as Assistant to the President and chief of
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  Speaker 1: staff to Vice President Biden in the Obama administration, and
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  Speaker 1: returned after serving several years in that position to serve
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  Speaker 1: as the White House E Bowler Response Coordinator. Think you've
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  Speaker 1: got the perfect resume for this job, but my question
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  Speaker 1: is you know so much about being chief of staff
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  Speaker 1: the people, and you know so much about the White House.
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  Speaker 1: Don't you know that being chief of sta after the
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  Speaker 1: White House President of the United States is a difficult
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  Speaker 1: job to do, and usually the tenure is about eighteen months.
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  Speaker 1: So when you were offered the job, did you say,
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  Speaker 1: I know I'm only gonna be able to do this
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  Speaker 1: for about eighteen months, or do you say I'm gonna
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  Speaker 1: make it all four or eight years? Well, David, thanks,
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  Speaker 1: thanks that very generous introduction. I appreciate it. Look, I
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  Speaker 1: was honored and flattered humbled when President Biden. President Biden
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  Speaker 1: asked me to come do this. Um, it is a
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  Speaker 1: ruling job, There's no question about it. I think it's
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  Speaker 1: easy to understand why the average tenure in the job
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  Speaker 1: is seventeen eighteen months. Um, you know, I'm here every day,
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  Speaker 1: working away. I'm honored to be part of this team
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  Speaker 1: I have. I'm very lucky. I have probably the most
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  Speaker 1: experienced a group of colleagues who have ever served as
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  Speaker 1: a senior level in the White House. I have people
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  Speaker 1: who carry a lot of the load every day. That
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  Speaker 1: makes the job a lot easier than it would be.
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  Speaker 1: We're facing a lot of hard challenges, no question about it.
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  Speaker 1: Difficult situations on the international front, a lot of challenges
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  Speaker 1: here at home. But I'm really lucky to be part
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  Speaker 1: of an A plus team that's tackling these challenges every day.
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  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the job of being chief of
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  Speaker 1: staff and how the White House works. So the President
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  Speaker 1: does he get up early in the morning and call
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  Speaker 1: you at home and say what's going on? Or or
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  Speaker 1: do you you get in? What? What time does he
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  Speaker 1: get in and what time you meet with the staff
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  Speaker 1: people and what time you see him in the beginning
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  Speaker 1: and the end of the day. How does that work?
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  Speaker 1: So I'm usually in the White House every day by
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  Speaker 1: UH and I talked to the President early in the
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  Speaker 1: morning by phone from the residents. We have our morning
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  Speaker 1: staff meetings before the President comes downstairs. We have a
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  Speaker 1: number of different kinds of alignments of meetings depending on
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  Speaker 1: the day of the week and whatnot, UM where we
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  Speaker 1: kind of go over what's gonna happen that day, what's
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  Speaker 1: gonna what the key questions are that need to be
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  Speaker 1: put to the president, What are the key things we
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  Speaker 1: need to resolve that day? As a team? As I said,
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  Speaker 1: this is UH to the White House many times before. UM,
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  Speaker 1: but I think this is the most team oriented staff
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  Speaker 1: I've seen. Uh. Usually the President comes downstairs around nine o'clock.
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  Speaker 1: I'm his first meeting the day. Every day, I kind
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  Speaker 1: of go through where things are and some key priorities,
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  Speaker 1: get his reaction to the materials he's been reading overnight.
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  Speaker 1: President takes with him upstairs every evening a thick binder
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  Speaker 1: of materials to read, decision memos, UM and briefing memos. Those.
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  Speaker 1: He usually comes in with questions. I try to come
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  Speaker 1: in with answers UH, and we have a conversation. Then
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  Speaker 1: he proceeds to a number of different staff meetings. I
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  Speaker 1: see him a number of times during the day for
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  Speaker 1: different kinds of meetings they're going on, whether their national
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  Speaker 1: security meetings or domestic policy meetings. And then usually at
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  Speaker 1: the end of the day I come in and kind
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  Speaker 1: of wrap with him on you know, what are the
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  Speaker 1: key outstanding things, what are the things he's going to
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  Speaker 1: see in his book that night that he really needs
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  Speaker 1: to focus on, Uh, what are the big decisions he's
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  Speaker 1: gonna have to make? And some of the meetings is
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  Speaker 1: going to have the next day and UH, today UM
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  Speaker 1: does anybody have the right or the senior staff who
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  Speaker 1: has walked in privileges? Are you the only one that
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  Speaker 1: can walk into the Oval office without an announcement or
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  Speaker 1: are there a couple of people that can do that? Now,
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  Speaker 1: any of the president's senior advisor of senior policy advisors
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  Speaker 1: can come in and see him. Obviously, you know it's
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  Speaker 1: he's got to not be in another meeting or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: But but I I we run a White House here
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  Speaker 1: where a lot of people have access to the President
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  Speaker 1: and a lot of people are able to talk to
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  Speaker 1: him straight and directly about what they think without having
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  Speaker 1: to go through me. So Um, the president seems like
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  Speaker 1: an even tempered person, but you know everybody gets upset
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  Speaker 1: from time and time. Does he yell and scream or
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  Speaker 1: he's not a yeller and scream, or how does he
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  Speaker 1: show his displeasure at something you write a note to
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  Speaker 1: him or or to you, or how does he show
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  Speaker 1: say he's not happy? I think one of Joe Biden's
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  Speaker 1: great strengths as president is that he hasn't who lived
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  Speaker 1: a life filled with incredible triumphs and incredible tragedies. And um,
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  Speaker 1: people know his by biography, they know his background, Uh.
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  Speaker 1: They know the successes he's had, they know the grave
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  Speaker 1: personal setbacks he suffered. And one thing that is true
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  Speaker 1: is there's never a morning I go in there with
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  Speaker 1: news that's as bad or worse than the news someone
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  Speaker 1: else has had to deliver to him at other points
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  Speaker 1: in time in his life. And I think that gives
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  Speaker 1: him a very even keel. I think when things are
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  Speaker 1: going well, he doesn't get too hyped up, and when
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  Speaker 1: when we're having tougher days, he maintains that composure, that demeanor,
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  Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the hallmarks of his temperament.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things he brings to the office, that
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  Speaker 1: that steadiness, that experience uh and uh in a life
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  Speaker 1: that has been, as I say, filled with triumph and tragedy,
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  Speaker 1: and that's seasoned him and prepared him for this moment.
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  Speaker 1: Some people say, he's you know, it's seventy nine years old.
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  Speaker 1: That's old to be president United States. Do you see
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  Speaker 1: signs of his age? Is he uh in better shape
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  Speaker 1: than you are? And in terms of exercising or how
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  Speaker 1: do you deal with the fact that he's, you know,
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  Speaker 1: older than anybody's ever been to be president Nited States? Well,
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  Speaker 1: he's he He's definitely better shape than I am. That's
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  Speaker 1: for sure. He's very fat. He works out almost every
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  Speaker 1: day in the morning before he comes down to the
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  Speaker 1: Oval office. Uh. And I think the American people saw
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  Speaker 1: for themselves last night the president's stand to give an
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  Speaker 1: hour long address that was filled with passion and power
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  Speaker 1: and wisdom and energy. They saw him hold the longest
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  Speaker 1: press conference in the history of presidents a couple weeks
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  Speaker 1: ago at the start of the year. To our press conference,
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  Speaker 1: we took questions from all kinds of reporters. So I
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  Speaker 1: think his fitness, his vigor is beyond question. Uh. People
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  Speaker 1: see him on the job every day. Uh. And then
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  Speaker 1: what they see as a person who's fully capable of
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  Speaker 1: doing the job, fully vigorous and great mental and physical health, uh,
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  Speaker 1: and taking on the burdens of the office and executing
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  Speaker 1: them well. So today you would say the President enjoying
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  Speaker 1: the job or does he say, geez, I wish I
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  Speaker 1: hadn't really done this. Well, I don't know that enjoying
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  Speaker 1: is the way you describe tackling the responsibilities of being
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  Speaker 1: the president United States, And particularly now where I think
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  Speaker 1: he has emerged as the leader of the free world,
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  Speaker 1: is the person who's leading this coalitions confronting Vladimir Putin.
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  Speaker 1: But I think he's very glad he ran for president.
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  Speaker 1: I think he is um, you have been well prepared
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  Speaker 1: for the challenges he's tackling. I think, more importantly, I
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  Speaker 1: hear from people all around the country, Democrats and Republicans,
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  Speaker 1: that they're very glad he's the person in the Oval
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  Speaker 1: office right now, that he's the person with the background, experience,
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  Speaker 1: the judgment to tackle these hard problems. And uh so,
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  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of confidence in him as
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  Speaker 1: the person who should be where he is. About intelligence
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  Speaker 1: for a moment um, Usually, uh the intelligence that comes
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  Speaker 1: into the c I A UH is not declassified and
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  Speaker 1: given to reporters in a public way. Clearly, in this process, somebody,
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  Speaker 1: I assume the President United States, thought it was a
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  Speaker 1: good idea to declassify the satellite photos and to declassify
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  Speaker 1: the information we have about what Putin was sinking or saying.
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  Speaker 1: So was that a difficult decision to come to And
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  Speaker 1: do you think it worked or didn't work? Yet? David,
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  Speaker 1: I think it was the right decision given the kind
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  Speaker 1: of environment we were facing. We knew that President Putin
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  Speaker 1: had a reputation for disinformation. We've certainly seen that all
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  Speaker 1: around the world, and we knew that his most likely
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  Speaker 1: approach here would be to create some kind of disinformation campaign,
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  Speaker 1: a false flag attack, potentially a false provocation out and
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  Speaker 1: outlies to justify his invasion of Ukraine. As it became
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  Speaker 1: clear and clear to us that that was what he
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  Speaker 1: had planned, we thought it was more and more important
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  Speaker 1: to strip him of that advantage by making clear what
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  Speaker 1: we knew his plans were and making it clear to
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  Speaker 1: the world what we thought would happen. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that decision by the President Biden, in conjunction with our
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  Speaker 1: NATO allies or other allies that are part of the coalition,
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  Speaker 1: is shared decision to proceed this way has been one
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  Speaker 1: of the reasons why there has been such a unified
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  Speaker 1: and uniform ruled reaction to what President Putin has done.
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  Speaker 1: There's no ambiguity about who is the aggressor here. There's
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  Speaker 1: no belief in any of the false stories about what
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  Speaker 1: quote unquote provoked this invasion. I think that transparency that
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  Speaker 1: uh sophisticated use of intelligence and a modern information warfare
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  Speaker 1: context has served the allies very very well. I also
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  Speaker 1: think it's stripped President Putin of any element of surprise
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  Speaker 1: in the attack and helped the Ukrainians be ready for
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  Speaker 1: what what has hit them. So how do you respond
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  Speaker 1: to the critics that you have? And you have some
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: critics sometimes, I'm sure you know who say you should
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  Speaker 1: have sent armaments to the Ukrainians before the invasion, so
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  Speaker 1: they were better armed than they are now that we're
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  Speaker 1: now sending them after the invasion, and and that you
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  Speaker 1: should have imposed the sanctions before the invasion occurred. What
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  Speaker 1: do you respond? How do you respond to those kind
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  Speaker 1: of criticisms versa all, we did send armaments to the
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  Speaker 1: Ukrainians before the invasion. We sent more arms, more military
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: assistance to Ukraine in the past twelve months than any
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  Speaker 1: year uh since. So we did send a variety of
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: kinds of military assistance to the Ukrainians. That assistance continues
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to be to come into the country, but we did
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  Speaker 1: send plenty before this happened. In terms of the sanctions,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we thought that the best way to make sure we'd
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: have the most unified and powerful set of sanctions was
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: to make it clear that those sanctions would take effect
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  Speaker 1: when and if President Putin invaded. The results that we've seen.
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  Speaker 1: Illustrate that, David, You've seen There's never been a effort
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  Speaker 1: to impose sanctions this stringent on a country as large
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  Speaker 1: and as complex and as interconnected to the world economy
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  Speaker 1: as Russia. It's really a kind of astonishing effort that
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  Speaker 1: you're seeing under way here. And the impact of those
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  Speaker 1: sanctions has been devastating. They're devastating because there's such a
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  Speaker 1: powerful group of countries unified in their application. And I
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  Speaker 1: think doing it the way we did is what's made
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  Speaker 1: all that possible. When you impose sanctions, Let's suppose the
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  Speaker 1: offending party, Let's say Russia says, Okay, we made a mistake,
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  Speaker 1: We're sorry, we're pulling back. Did the sanctions go away
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  Speaker 1: or are their penalties that are subsequent to the withdrawal?
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  Speaker 1: Other words, are there ongoing penalties or they're in effect
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  Speaker 1: reparations for having done these bad things? Or the sanction
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  Speaker 1: just go away? Or is that not decided yet? Hasn't
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: been deciding? What would happen if the Russians withdrew again?
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  Speaker 1: That be part of whatever kind of diplomacy would unlind
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  Speaker 1: the crisis in Ukraine. Sadly, Uh, this is a this
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  Speaker 1: as you say, is a hypothetical question. We see no signs, unfortunately,
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  Speaker 1: that the Russians have any intention of withdrawing right now,
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  Speaker 1: and indeed, their military operations in Ukraine continue to escalate.
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  Speaker 1: They continue to um, you know, attack more civilians, more
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: civilian sights. The fighting continues to get more and more
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  Speaker 1: fear So, we offered President Putting a number of diplomatic
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: off ramps in the run up to this invasion. We
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: offered him a number of different arrangements, never different possible
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: ways in which he could meet with members of the
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: coalition and the Ukrainians, a number of different kinds of
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: structures to do that. At every juncture, President Putin rejected
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the path of diplomacy, continued on the path of invasion.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what we're seeing unfold right now. Let's talk
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: about build back better. UM. I wondered who came up
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: with that tongue twister? Um, it's hard to say that quickly. Um.
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  Speaker 1: Was that something that you came up with or who
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: came up with that? I don't know who came up
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: it certainly was the principal slogan for the president's campaign.
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  Speaker 1: Uh in uh was the slogan for most of his
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: policies was the umbrella under which most of the policies
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that he ran on build Back Better. Uh, it's actually
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: gained some traction on the world. A number of European
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: countries have now adopted Build Back Better initiatives. So I
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: think it's a slogan that's resonated with people. Uh. It
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: is a bit of a tongue twister, but I think
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  Speaker 1: it does have some residents, and it comes from the campaign.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: So is the Build Back Better bill that passed the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: House likely to ever see the light of day in
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the Senate? Are you now committed to breaking it up
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and passing individual pieces of it? Well, I think what
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: we're gonna try to do is get as many of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the President's initiatives enacted as possible in the best way possible.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: The Senate has the option to do reconciliation as a
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: procedural device that takes only fifty votes to pass a
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: bill that has tax changes and other kinds of economic
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: changes in it. Uh, And that would probably be the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: vehicle we'd use to move some legislation like this through
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the Senate. We're obviously in conversations with a number of
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: senators about what elements have the most support. What elements
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: are the most effective to get pass to the Senate.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: You're the president. Talk about a number those last night, David.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I think people are very concerned about inflation and very
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: concerned about what inflation means to everyday families, and that
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: means they pay too much for things, and so key
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  Speaker 1: parts of the Build Back Better Plan address that directly.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Bring down the cost of childcare, bring down the cost
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: of prescription drugs, bring down the cost of elder care,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: bring down the cost of healthcare. So we're looking for
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and most importantly in some ways are equally important, I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: should say, bring down the cost of energy by moving
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: us to more of a clean energy economy. So, uh,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: you look at those proposals. There are proposals that meet
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the moment of higher costs, and we're going to continue
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to work with the Senate to find a formula that
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: moves that agenda forward. So, Ron, you have been criticized
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: by some for saying that you are so powerful that
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: you really are effectively running the whole government. How do
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you respond to that. You're like that, you're the Prime Minister.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. I'm a staff person. I've been a staff
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: person my whole life. I've never run for anything. I've
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: never been elected to anything. I've been proud to work
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: for some distinguished public servants, Uh, President Biden being one
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of them at several points in time of my career,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: President Obama, of course, President Clinton. Uh. That's that's who
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  Speaker 1: I am. And at the White House, not only am
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: a staff person, I'm a staff person who works with
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: a number of other enormously talented staff people. So this
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: is a real team effort here, team on the policy side,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: team on the strategy side. My job is just to
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: help coordinate those people get that advice to the president. Uh.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So that's how I see my role. How do you
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: respond to the other criticism of some people have had,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: not necessarily of you, but of the president that he
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: governed as he campaign as a moderate, but he's governing
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: more to the left than people expect it. And what
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is your response to that criticism that some have made. Yeah, look,
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  Speaker 1: I think that that criticism wipes out the history of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and paign. Uh. There's nothing that the President sent to
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Capitol Hill that he did not put before the voters
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: in the campaign. Our economic agenda is the economic agenda
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: he ran on an eighty one million Americans voted for
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: when they elected him. In fact, if anything, we've trimmed
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: that agenda back. The Build Back Better plan that we
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: sent to Capitol Hill was significantly smaller than even the
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: one we campaigned on. Uh, the infrastructure bill is something
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he campaigned on, the voting rights bill something he campaigned on,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: and the COVID relief package that we started the administration
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: with again as something he endorsed in the campaign. So
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: he was very straightforward voters about what he would do
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: if he were president, and that's what he's done. And look,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the proposals we put forward are substantial y because the
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: problems we inherited were substantial. It's not any vision, and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: not any grandiose vision. We inherited an economy that was
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: dead in the water, fifty thousand jobs a month, just
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: fifty a months the three months before we got here,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: virtually debt economy. The government hadn't even bought enough vaccinations
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: to give one vaccine to every American, let alone too
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: vaccines to ever American, let alone booster shots. We had
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: no system to really massively distribute and administer those vaccines.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: We face a climate crisis. We face all kinds of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: other challenges now, obviously this challenge over in Europe. So
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: we've put together proposals to meet the moment, not out
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of some effort to kind of do something bigger than
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: we should, but because we inherited very big problems. Uh.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And and you've seen a lot of progress. We obviously
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: then went and created more jobs in one year than
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: any administration in history, for any administration, says nineteen thirty nine,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: according to New York Times fact check, So any administration
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: since nineteen thirty nine, we uh see the fastest second
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: time of growth in forty years. Was the first time
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: in twenty years. Our economy grew faster in the year
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: than China's economy. So we put in place the kind
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of recovery measures that were needed. We've vaccinated over two
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: u fully vaccinated over two twenty million Americans. Uh. You
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: know that these are big tasks we took on this year,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm proud of what we've done to achieve them.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So usually in the after the first year of an administration,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you see some turnover and a cabinet or something. But
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you haven't had any turnover, and I haven't had any
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: scandals either, So, how come you haven't any scandals and
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: how come you haven't any turnover? Well, uh, I think
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the president of a very good job of picking a
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: cabinet and picking senior officials, and I think the lack
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: of scandals reflects that. Uh. I think the lack of
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: turnover reflects the fact that these are men and women
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: who are very eager to serve, who doing a great job,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: who are making a difference. It's the most diverse cabinet history.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: It's the first time in history the cabinet has been
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: evenly divided between men and women, the first time in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: history that a majority of the cabinet isn't white. And
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: it's a diverse cabinet. It's an incredibly talented cabinet, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: we're very lucky to have their service. The President's favorability
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: ratings are not as high as I assume you would like,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and uh, I wondered, how do you win the White
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: House deal with that? Well, I think the most important
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: thing is the president to do the right thing. And
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I think that what you're seeing right now is um
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: a mood in the country that's impacted by the fact
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that this pandemic has lasted longer than anyone thought it would.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Uh that while we've had tremendous growth on the economy
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and jobs, we're having a problem with inflation, and I
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: think those things contribute to um generally um uh mood
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in the country that's not as upbeat or confidence we
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: would like. What I think in the case of President
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Biden is we made a lot of hard decisions in
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to put in place a new economic strategy that you
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: heard the President talk about last night in the State
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: of the Union, a new COVID strategy that we're again
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: updating again today with new steps on COVID UH, and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: those hard decisions I think are starting to show results.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I fully accept the fact that the American people are
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: more show me, not tell me. And what they want
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to see is they want to see that we really
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: have reached a new way of managing COVID. They want
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to see we really have not just created jobs, but
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the jobs are going to stay, the wages are going
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to go up. They want to see that these the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: economic recovery is real and sustained. I think the political
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: credit will follow from that. When I was here both
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: with President Clinton and President Obama, we saw the recovery
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: ahead of the politics, and I think you're seeing that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: now too, and so I do think our approval reading
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: will go up in the months ahead as the economic recovery,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the progress on covid UH become more permanent, more lasting,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and internalized more by the voters. Now. One of my
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: former partners at at Carlisle was Jim Baker, and he
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: was considered maybe up until you the gold standard of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: how to be chief of staff. But he didn't actually
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: like the job that much, and he wound up as
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Secretary of Treasury eventually and as Secretary of State. So
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: do you have any aspirations to any of those jobs
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: or something like that? I don't think so. I think
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: when I finished my tenure here, I'll go back. Uh.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: When I finished my tenure here, I'm gonna like take
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: a month in sleep, and then I'll figure out what
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I'll do next. Uh. You know, Secretary Bayer, I have
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: to know him a little bit during the Florida recount
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: when we are on opposite sides of that. He has
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: been unbelievably gracious. He sent me the the kindest note
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: when I got this job. Um, he's sent me a
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: couple of the notes since then. He's just such a
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: uh you know, he's just been He's just such a
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: wonderful person. Um and um uh and I he is
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the gold standard of doing this job. I couldn't even
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: aspire to that. Just try to do the best I
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: can every day. So whenever you do finish this position
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: as chief of staff and a friend calls you subsequently
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and says, I've been offered the job of chief of
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: staff to the President nited states, would you tell him
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: to take or her to take that job or not.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I would definitely tell anyone to take this job. It
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: is a hard job, but it's a unique opportunity to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: work with, first of all, an incredible president and vice
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: president of course at a time it's very important to
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: our country, and to work with an amazingly talented group
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: of people here in the White House throughout the agency's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: They just blow me away every day and I learned
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: something new every day. It's been the culminating experience in
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: my career. Uh and um i um. I just couldn't
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: be more grateful for the experience. And whoever replaces me
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: in this job whenever my typing the job ends, I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: hope has the same kind of experience. Thanks for listening
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen