Latest / Decisions, Decisions / EP 489: Men Want Me, Baby and All feat. Jamilah Lemieux

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EP 489: Men Want Me, Baby and All feat. Jamilah Lemieux · Decisions, Decisions

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's continuing to maintain overlapping romantic relationships. And that's what
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: men do so often. There's a big difference between.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Like, we are done. All we have is this child.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: And what we have to learn to do, which is
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: what my daughter's father and I learned to do, we
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: were done.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: He orders Chinese food. We sit. We're all with the baby. Like,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: 8 o'clock. It's dark.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: He's like, I got to tell you something. And immediately,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I know it's about that woman. And I say, get
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the fuck out. out of my house I went into
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: this book wanting to defend and celebrate black single moms
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I came out of it now I'm a black single
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: mom supremacist I think we are the most essential group
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: of people in the community you need to celebrate them
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: you need to make them feel affirmed you need to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: help them out.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Decisions. Decisions. Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Decisions. Decisions.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: It's your girl, Mandy B, a.k.a. Peg the Stein, a.k.a.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Peggy Bundy, a.k.a.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: That's Beach. Hey, everybody.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Welcome back to another episode. My name is Weezy. We
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: actually have a guest. We haven't had on in years.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: But technically it doesn't count because she's never been on
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Decisions Decisions either.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, wait.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: She's also never been.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: On the pod with both of us. No, the first.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Time I did, it was with both of you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, and then you came back on and did the
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Black Feminist Talk with me, Jade. And I can't remember
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: the fourth person.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I can't remember either, but I remember Jay.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: I feel like there was four of us, though.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: There was four of us, yeah.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm excited, y'all, to welcome Jamila Lemieux, is an
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: acclaimed writer, cultural critic.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: What is all of these L's?
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Cultural critic and commentator whose work explores race, gender, politics,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: and popular culture. Known for her thoughtful and compelling voice,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: she has contributed to prominent publications and media platforms, and
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: she is. And also, to Black single mother.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Congratulations.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you. And this came out in... It came out
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: in March, but we still talking about it.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: We are always, I think, even just speaking of culture,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: this will always be a conversation within our community.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: How great does it feel to have it? to be
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: talked about now that people have read it. It feels great.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: A lot of people have read it. A lot more
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: people have not read it. But it feels great that
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it's out in the world because this was the first
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: nonfiction book by a top U.S.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Publisher about Black single motherhood. Wow.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: And Black single mothers have been a fixture in our
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: community since the plantation. So at no point did any
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of these big publishing companies say, we need to talk
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: about this, right? Right. And even the women writers that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: we've had, the feminist writers, the writers who are mothers,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the writers who are single mothers, have not taken this on.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So it's a big deal to have this book out there.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people are uncomfortable with it, but
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I am as happy as can be.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: What do you think makes people uncomfortable about a book
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: just about Black single motherhood?
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: That literally, literally. Hold on, you want to know that's
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: what I was about to say?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: So you gave me this book in Chicago.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: And I'm walking around because I went to go get
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: my massage and then I went out to eat. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: don't have to be honest with you. The title alone
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: made me want to keep flipping it over.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I felt... You don't want to walk around carrying that badge.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I literally was like, oh my God, I have to
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: tell her I feel this way.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Do you know what it was like dating for two
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: years with the first thing that came up when you
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Googled my name was.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Was black. Single.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: My.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Well, ours is horror, so yes.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: You know. Yes, I think I know.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: But I literally realized that a part of me, I think,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: just revisited my biggest fear with walking around with this book.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: A part of me not wanting ever to have kids
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: comes from the worst thing in life to me is
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: to be a single mother. And as someone who has
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: control issues, As someone who grew up in a single
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: parent household, to me, it's the worst thing.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I have friends that are single mothers right now.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: And whether or not you get married, whether or not
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: you love the man you procreate with, there's no way
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: in possible hell to stop you from ever becoming a
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: single mother.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: And I always say, how does.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: That make you feel to hear someone say it's the
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: worst thing that can happen to you?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Because that's how it felt to me at one point, too.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't until I was years in my motherhood,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: years into my motherhood.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: How old were you?
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: 13.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I have a 13 year old daughter. You know, I
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: have a little mini me. It's so fun.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It's so lit, you know, and there are so many
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: things about my particular single motherhood that make it privileged
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and unique. Right.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: You share some of those.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just, I mean, first, just starting off with me,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily unique, but I'll say privileged, right? So
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: middle class, light complexion, college educated, active co-parent, one child,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: little girl, both of us look mixed.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So when I walk around ring list with my daughter,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: we don't get the vitriol that some of the 21
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: moms I talked to in the book when their children
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: were younger and they had three children, four children, five children, right?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Dark complexion, low income.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So when they walk in the room with all their kids,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: people are looking at them differently.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: Do you think there's a number of children that a
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: single mother can have that starts the judgment? Is it
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: more than two once you start seeing them?
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's more than one.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I think it's more than one.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's one. There's no number. There's no number.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: I think more than one gets the question that people
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: feel like is the one. That's the worst thing you
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: could say. Multiple baby Davies.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Multiple Davies. Yeah.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: So two with one man is looked at differently than
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: two with two different men. Even if someone had two
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: with one man who's a complete absent bum and you
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: might have two with two guys who are good dudes
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and around, there's still people who would look at you.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: Lesser.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: There's a friend of mine that has three children with
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: one man.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: And you know what she said to me that I
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: was like, yo, it's so crazy. When niggas hear that
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: I have three children by the same guy, they immediately
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: assume I was married.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: They're just like, oh, well, she was someone's wife. Did
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: he die?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Just even if they weren't married to have three children,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: your relationship was likely pretty significant.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Right. And that's often the times, you know, the thing
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that people are looking for.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: How substantial was your relationship?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: But in particular, did you go to the altar? Right.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Did you go to the altar? But I will say this.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Talking to single moms who are divorced.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You don't get treated that much better. Different than us.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And the same thing.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I have a fully participatory co-parent. I have a 50-50
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: custody situation. We've never been to court. My daughter's father
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: is an angel. We've had a wonderful co-parenting experience. And
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: we had to work through some stuff to get there.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: But from the moment she was born, she was a priority. Right?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: And we've been co-parenting since birth. We were broken up
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: since before I found out I was pregnant.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And even with that, People don't care about that context.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: They hear single mother and that's it.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: You're a baby mama. You weren't married to him.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You know, he didn't want to marry you. He didn't
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: choose you in that way. And it's interesting.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I've been a single mom in public, you know, through
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: my media career, my daughter's whole 13 years. Right. During
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the pregnancy, I'm posting, I'm tweeting, I'm sharing things. Right. Right. And, like,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: never more in those 13 years have I heard people
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: try to use, you're a single mom, you're a baby mama,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: to try and insult me now than I have at
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: any other time. And it's crazy, because I'm like, I,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I took this shit to the bank, right? Like,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I got paid to write a book about this.
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  Speaker 1: They don't care even if a single mom....
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Has a college education. Makes money. Is happy. Is happy.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of people literally just assume that you were
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: irresponsible and you should choose better men.
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  Speaker 2: And you should suffer.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Yes. And no matter what the man did or didn't do,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you as the mother must suffer. That's your penance forever.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: You either go back to him and figure that out.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Or you suffer alone. And so when people see a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Sierra who found somebody who was so excited about her,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: that baby was like nine months old.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: You talking about baby future and Russell? Yeah.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: When she went on her first date with Russell Wilson,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the baby was like nine months old. Yeah. And he
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: has said that God told him on that date that
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: he was going to raise that child. Wow. That's how
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: convicted he was about this woman and wanting to be
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a part of her life.
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  Speaker 2: Do you think that.
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  Speaker 1: And has.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And people are so mean and nasty about it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: But I don't... I wonder this, has future, you know,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: like Russell Wilson almost become this anomaly? Like everyone is
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: just like. We're tied to Sierra's prayer. Like, do you
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: feel like we get to see more examples of that?
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Or there aren't women celebrating the guy that becomes into
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: their child's life next enough? Like, are we not celebrating
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: that second person enough? Are we not? Sierra's the only thing,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: if you ask me right now, that I could think of.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: That you can name her. And I think that's also.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Because I fear, and I don't know the statistics about
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: this specifically, I fear that if it hasn't become less common,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: it will become less common. Because I never heard people
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: say bad things about stepfathers 10 or.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: 15, 20 years ago.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I love that you just brought up stats because
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I did end up pulling up one speaking of Black
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: fathers specifically. So in terms of men, and this is
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: in the U.S., fathers, one in seven of U.S. men
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: or fathers, have children with.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: More than one woman. Yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: One in seven?
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: One in seven of fathers have children with more than
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: one woman.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I think the.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Majority of black dads have children with more than one woman.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And then of that, the breakdown.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: by race is, I think, surprising and unfortunate. While yes,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: black is the highest ethnicity, it is at 28.2%.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: So this is U.S.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Fathers that have children by multiple women.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: Almost 30% is extremely young.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately, we in our own community have people flaunting that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: So we have the Nick Cannons. We have the NBA
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Young Boys. We have the men that are openly.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I think there's a difference between having had a child
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: in a failed relationship or having had a child when
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you were young and then having more children. versus doing
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: what Nick Cannon and NBA Youngboy and Future have done.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: But those women are in relationships with him.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the thing is, but still, it's back to
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: back to back, right? It's one thing to be like, hey,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I had a kid at 25, right? That relationship didn't
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: work out. And I'm speaking for the men, right? I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: want to give them the benefit of the doubt, right? 25. No,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I always say give men the doubt of the benefit,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: you know? But you have a baby at 25, 26, right?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: You break up. You co-parent your child. And then you
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: get together with somebody else in your 30s. You have
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: another child. So that's a man with children in two households, right?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: That's not necessarily a bad thing. But Nick Cannon's thing
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: is he's broken households. No, it's continuing to maintain overlapping
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: romantic relationships. And that's what men do so often. There's
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a big difference between, like, we are done. All we
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: have is this child. And what we have to learn
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to do, which is what my daughter's father and I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: learned to do, we were done.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I want to start there. Yes. Okay. Let's get into
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: this story.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: The twists and turns, but the psychology around your battles
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: during your pregnancy and after are really interesting. So you
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: found out you were pregnant. After you and your boyfriend
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: broke up.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: So talk about what that conversation was looking like and
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: why you chose to keep the baby, all the things.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the beginning. So we'd had an extended.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: First of all, this was my second, really my first
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: serious ass relationship. We got together when I was 26.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It was tumultuous at times, largely because of me and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: my immaturity and my.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: you.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Know, lack of therapy and coping and dealing with what
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I had going on and this kind of like weird
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: pseudo celebrity shit that I was navigating, you know, and
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: just like I was not pleasant to my boyfriend often,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you know, and like he was like, you know, so
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it started with me saying, hey, you know, we're not,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we're fighting a lot. Maybe we should, you know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: see other people. and kind of see if we find
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: our way back to each other, right? And so we
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: agreed to do that. And we were, you know, he
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: was seeing other people, I wasn't. During this period, I'm
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: falling more in love. I'm like, you know what, this
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: really is a good guy, you know? And he hits
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: me with the, I want to break up for real.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: You know, and I'm devastated and I cry and I'm heartbroken.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And a few weeks later, I find out we're pregnant.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And so because I had been so responsible with birth
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: control my entire sexual life up until that point, until
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the day we conceived, right? I was like, I think
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: this is our sign from God. Clearly, we are supposed
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to be together. That's how you saw it. That's how
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I saw it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: How did he see it? And also, one more thing
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'll add.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I have been told by a doctor that I was
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: going to have a difficult time conceiving. I was told
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I had polycystic ovaries. And this is something a doctor
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: told me at 23 or 24. No doctor has ever
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: said this to me again. But in that moment, I'm
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: operating from me having a baby is not guaranteed. Me
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: having a baby might not, you know what I mean?
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: It's my chance.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And so he was like, I don't think this is
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a good idea right now. You know, but I respect
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: your choice. And if you choose to do it, I
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: will co-parent. We will co-parent. And we, you know, as
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: far as getting back together, if it happens organically, it happens,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: but it's not going to happen because we're having a baby.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So he was very....
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Even though he said this relationship is over, you decide
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to keep the baby.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: You guys get into therapy. We get into therapy.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I don't think I ever heard anyone do that until
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: you told me.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because in my mind, I'm like, we're going to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: get back together. We are working toward this Black woman.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: It's my sorority sister. You know, not someone I knew,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: but like, oh, she's going to tell him we need
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to make her an honest woman. And she's like, that's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: not what he's saying, Jamila.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, What was he saying?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: He was saying, I don't want to get back together.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Let's be friends. Let's co-parent. If it happens, it'll be organically.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: For a while, he wasn't telling me that there was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: anyone else. You know, the first few months of what
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: he had going on, I was unaware that there was a,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you know. And so eventually I did come to find
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: out through a few different channels that there was another
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: woman in his life who had very quickly gotten very significant.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And she was living in Texas at the time. They
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: had known each other from college, but they'd reconnected while
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: she was visiting New York and they had something going on.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You know, and there's some kind of ambiguity about it
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: for me. So something's going on. And I get this
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: anonymous email from this bitch. Shayla, if you see this shit,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I might still whoop your ass.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Hello. Shayla.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: Not my Shayla.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: The only reason I'm not saying your last name is
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: because I don't fucking remember it.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: But Shayla was this bitch who worked with him.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I knew her casually through mutual friends in New York
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: or whatever. She had worked with my ex at one point.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: She had a crush on him. We figured that out.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And she, you know, she starts the vicious job.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And so it seems like I don't know, maybe, you know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: something happened with them.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe it didn't.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: But it seems as though once we broke up, he
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: he continued to reject her. And she sends me this
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: anonymous email. I don't even remember how I figured out
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: it was her. But she sends me this anonymous email
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: like your man's in love with a bitch in Texas.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm sitting in my office. I worked at Ebony
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: at the time. My office was in Radio City Music Hall.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'm overlooking, you know, Manhattan. And I wanted to jump
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: out of the window. I literally thought to myself, what
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: if I just jumped right now? That's how low I felt.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Were you pregnant at the time?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: How many months?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Probably four or five.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So like beyond the like comfortably. So you went through
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: a breakup while pregnant? So we had already broken up.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Oh, because I'm just thinking you're mad. So I'm like, yeah, no,
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: we had broke.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I don't even know why she said that
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: because we were broken up.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: She was just, you know, but like, yeah, we were
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: broken up and I decided to keep this baby because
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: it's my baby that God said to have. And we're
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: going to, you know, figure it out and be together.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: You know, not only that, you were in therapy at
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: this time with him. Yeah.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: You were in therapy with him. Your therapist is telling you. Jamila,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: you need to listen.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: We need to talk about co-parenting.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Because it's a co-parenting conversation. It's not a we're getting
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: back together conversation.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: And then you get this email saying that he's in.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Love with this other woman. Yeah.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: And at this moment, you're like, okay, I'm not going
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: to have this family unit.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I'm still like, you know, to some extent, I'm not fully,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you know, because he did not. He's like, yeah, but no,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: but no, we're not exclusive. You know, so I still
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: feel there's an opening. Right. Like at one point, he'll
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: probably deny this, that he ever said this. But at
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: one point he said we could get a two bedroom
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: apartment together. Right. And so that way we could both
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: be there for the baby. And, you know, we can
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: have our own space. Oh, no.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Again, you know, so I have this dream. That sounds awful.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So it sounds crazy.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Now. But in my mind, I have this dream of
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: me wearing cute pajamas and making him fall back in love.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And look at me and our baby. And are we
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: wonderful together? And that's not what happened.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: It might be difficult to have a child. I have
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: a friend who has PCOS who was told the same
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: thing very early when she was trying to sell her eggs.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: And so she was completely disconnected from the dream or
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: desire to be a mother because she had already just
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: disconnected from that feeling being told she couldn't, right? So
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I'm curious, when you were pregnant, was there an excitement
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: of being a mom or an excitement of having a family?
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Because you did even say, I heard you say, like,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: your idea of a family is at least three. So
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: even like right now, you don't feel like a family
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: would just.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I do now. Well, wasn't gonna... I'm saying that moment, yeah.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: But there was a moment that a family unit looked
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: like three or more.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. That's 100% what a family unit looks like
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: to me. So I... Wasn't excited throughout my pregnancy.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know, there were moments, fleeting moments of excitement. There
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: was a sense of duty, kind of like, this is
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the baby. I'm supposed to, this is my baby. You know,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. Like, I'm supposed
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to have this child right now. You know, it's crazy
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: because I'm like 27. I think I delivered at 28.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And already the idea in my head that like time
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: would be a tick, tick, ticking, which is crazy because
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I proceed to spend the next 13 years being like,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I have.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: As long as I want to have another baby.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: You know, but like in that moment, there was this
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: idea of 30 looming and, you know, and just I
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: knew women who worked in media. I'm really close to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the woman who was my boss, Kierna Mayo, veteran hip
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: hop journalist who edited my book. And when I was
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: talking to her about it, she was one of the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: first people I told, you know, I went in her
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: office and was like, before I told my parents, before
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I told my family, you know.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I was like, um.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you're always thinking about work you know but also she
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: was my mom and my sister my friend at work
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you know I've been so spoiled with my professional situations
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that I've had black women who took care of me
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: at work I know that's very rare you know and
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: so like I needed her guidance I wanted to know
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: what she thought You know, and some of her thoughts
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: were revolved around the fact that she had women friends
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: who at that point were in their 40s who desperately
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: wanted children. Right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Who did not have partners. Right.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And so somewhere in me, I knew that like, Even
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: if things don't work out with me and Dave, he's
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: going to be a great dad. I'm going to be
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: a great mom. I can still have this child I've
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: always dreamed of. I've always wanted to be a mother.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Was this his first kid? Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: How did you know if he wasn't a good partner
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: with you that he would be a good father?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: He was largely a good partner.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I was the bad partner. You know, like, we both
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: had our flaws. We both had our flaws. He cheated
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: on me.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: Do you think that's interchangeable? Like, a bad partner... Like,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: I've cheated on niggas. I've dogged niggas out. Like, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think that would take away from me being
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: a good mom.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it depends what kind of bad partner.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Do you mistreat your partner? You know, and I was
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: unkind to him.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I think maybe because I, like, am seeing co-parenting dynamics
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Largely.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: And it's with people wanting that family unit but not
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: getting it. And so now there is. you know, tumultuous
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: drama between both. And it's just like, I genuinely do
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: think that a man could be a good father and
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: not be a good partner. Because also he might just
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: not be a good partner for you. But I don't think, like,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: just like me, I think I can be a great
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: daughter doesn't make me a great friend for someone else. Like,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: we all play different roles, right? And so that's why.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: So I think it depends on what kind of bad
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: partner you are. Like, maybe you can be a cheater
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and a good dad, right? But, like, if you disrespect
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the mother of your child, if you talk down to her,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: if you're nasty to her, if you're rude to her
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: in front of your kid, then no, I don't think
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you're a great dad.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Like, that to me is the measure. You know, but
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: if you can, regardless of your gender, you can put
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: aside what you and that person had and focus on
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the child. You know, I think that's ultimately the measure
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: of the good partner. I'm sorry, the good parent. And so,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, Are there instances where, you know, a parent
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: has been really manipulative and horrible to their other co-parent
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: and still a great parent?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe, but probably not.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Like, if you're dogging out and mistreating this person in
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the present, right? Like, I'm not saying about during the relationship, right? Like,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the relationship's over.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: So now what are we doing?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: You're still like you're you're you're talking down to them.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: You're nasty.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And again, not, you know, talking down to them because
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: this man dogged you out for 10 years and now
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he's your bum baby daddy who don't pay child support
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and you nasty to him.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: That's different.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: When it comes to being nasty, right, I want to
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: know what you guys have experienced. I feel like we
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: all have a friend that's maybe dealt with something with
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: co-parenting issues. particularly with one of my friends who's now
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: in her 40s. She has a conversation often about how
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: she wishes she could take back how she treated her
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: baby daddy because she believes she made him an absent father. Now,
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: I think that's an awful thing to say. I think
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: someone should be showing up for a kid. You chose
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: that baby mama, whatever, right? Showing up for your kid
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: shouldn't be interchangeable with But it is.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Women be keeping these motherfucking kids from they daddies.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: We about to take it there. No, no.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Let me explain real quick. Because I done seen it
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: with my own goddamn eyes and I done called women out. Like,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: why are you making it so hard for this man
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: to be a father?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Especially if the father is black. I think, so I
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: think there are two reasons for that. What are the reasons?
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I think there's the valid reason and the invalid reason.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: What is the valid reason for a woman to make
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: it difficult for a man to see his child?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: What's the valid reason? This man has been abusive.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: This man has been truly harmful in a way that
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: would impact the child. So it's one thing to not
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: want to be with your baby mama. It's another thing
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: to tell your baby mama she's an ugly black bitch
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: that don't nobody want. Right?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: She's a, you know, stupid ass. Verbal abuse?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Are you talking about verbal or physical? Like, what type
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: of abuse?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Both.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Abuse.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Abuse, period.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: It would be any of them for me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you have been abused by someone, truly abused, right?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Not just disliked. Not preferred, but actually abused by somebody, right?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Or if somebody has ever shown inconsistency or ambivalence when
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it comes to their children. Right? Because that's the thing. There's,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: you know, these guys, they get a new girlfriend. And
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: they start playing. I want to see my kid, you know,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: but it's like you haven't been around. Right. And so
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: there might be some hesitancy about immediately saying, let's jump
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: into you having the kids twice a week situation because
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I've sat.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: There and watched you not show up.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Right. So I think protecting a child from an abuse,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: excuse me, an abusive or inconsistent parent.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I think those are valid reasons. So I think what's
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the invalid?
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about Kim and Kanye. That's a great example
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: of inconsistency.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: Kanye and Kim have had a tumultuous relationship.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: She went on call her daddy and said, hey, if
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: he would like to see his kids.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: I saw a lot of women in the comments saying,
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: That were like, absolutely not. Just because he wants to
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: pick up and pick, like, you know, come where it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: convenient for him. That's not healthy for the kid. I'm curious.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: You're the only black mom in the room.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: What do you think about that situation?
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: A dad.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Hey, I'm available. Because I don't know if I would
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: let you see your kid either. This is a slippery
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: slope because he has mental health issues.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kanye does not seem like a healthy, safe person.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So I would want him to see his children, but
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I would want there to be some supervision. I would
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: want to be there if we could amicably all sit
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: in the room and play Yahtzee together.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: Now, what about the everyday Nick? that just pops up
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: when he does to see his kid.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: See, to me, I think popping up, when you pop up,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: you should not have access. And that's something I've learned from,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate, it wasn't my mother's story, it was
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: not my story.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: It was mine. But from what I've heard, and I'd
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: like to hear your take on this.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: It was mine.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: That's the life I live. Pop up.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: The pop-ups, my dad definitely completely disrespected my mom's new
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: partners who lived with us. But to me growing up,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: it wasn't until later that I realized like every time
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: we were with him, all he did was trash talk
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: my mom. And so when he was physically abusive to
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: my mom, we were really young. Like they broke up
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: when I was like four. But growing up, I didn't
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: realize until maybe high school. Like, once we even got
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: to become adults, he felt like we owed him as
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: children because he paid child support. Paid child support. His
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: $ 400 a month.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Four hundred.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Four hundred measly fucking dollars a month for two because
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: my other sister's daddy got deported.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: So really there's three of us.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: With the pop-ups, do you think that they made, it
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: was better that you got to spend time with him?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, we believe that as kids. Do you feel it now?
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: But that's another thing.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Well, my dad, like, didn't always live in the same city.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: He traveled for work. So that's the other thing. Because
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: of work, he lived in another state. My mom worked
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: multiple jobs. So even the realism of traveling to really
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: see my dad wasn't. If he was in town, we
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: loved seeing my dad.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: But when he was in town, how often did you
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: see him?
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: So we would see my dad, honestly, once a month.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Okay. For a long time.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: And then my mom wanted more child support. So she
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: took him to raise child support. Well, that triggered him
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: to be nasty and get DNA tests, which brought about
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: that my mom had a secret that my younger sister
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: might not be his. So even that whole process took
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: like a year. He didn't see us for over a year.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: And that was middle school. The result was that me
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: and her were his. So then a little bit of
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: a raise came. But I think then that's where... And
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: that took place like seventh grade for me. That's when
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I ran away and I was.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: I felt it all, right? So by the time I
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: get to high school, I am now seeing him as
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: a man. But I still think it's important to see
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: my dad because all of my friends at the time,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: all of them lived in two-parent households. I was the
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: only one that lived in a single-parent home.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: So.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: navigating boys, feeling like I need to be with my daddy.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: My dad also giving us the fancy name brand shoes
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: and rubbing in the face how much money he has
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: and that my mom doesn't was also a thing, even
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: though still middle class. He's a construction worker, bless you.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: So for me, I'm not going to lie. I think
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: that's why I'm so emotional when I talk to women
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: who do keep the fathers from them because I think
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: they should be able to see both parents. And I
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: do realize too that like, The relationship is over. So
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: even you leaning into the abusive things, a lot of
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: relationships have abuse in it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: But I don't trust that a man who abuses his
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: woman won't abuse his children. You know, like I think
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that someone who is abusive is abusive. So he may
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: be abusive in his friend circles. He may be abusive
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: to his siblings.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: That's the difference. I don't think if.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Just because and we see this with the machismo of men,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: you being an abuse, you being abusive in a relationship
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: with a woman, I think is absolutely different than your
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: abuse factors to your parents, your siblings, your children, your friends.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Your children, though.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: before it's happening.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Anyone else can get it.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: If this is how you can be to the person
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to love, I don't think there's a switch
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in you that says these people are off. You might
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: know better than to hit your boss.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: You might know better than anybody. But your child is
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: subordinate to you.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Well, that's the other thing.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Your child has no power. Yeah, we're talking about discipline.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Well, discipline now also looks different than the 90s. Yes.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Everybody was getting their ass whooped in the 90s. I didn't.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Discipline looks different as well. I didn't, no.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: My mom was like an OG black hippie. I had
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: gentle parenting before gentle parenting was a thing. Okay. It's
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: funny because my dad would always be like, you know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: you need to whoop her ass, right?
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: I think that's a generational thing because it's not a
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: thing now.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: I spent my daughter before. One thing I cannot stand
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: as I'm getting older, I'm at the age of 35.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: I hate a shitty kid.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: You're going to be so, we say this and then
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: we meet those children.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: I don't know if that's in me. I think I
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: may have been when I was younger.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: But as much as maybe culturally, too, my partner's Nigerian.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I see the way that he's able to discipline his
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: nieces and nephews and he's firm when he speaks. And
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: I notice there's a difference with men.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: All right. So black single moms. having it tough with discipline,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: maybe even little boys too. Who knows? I can't imagine
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: that journey. But the more I think about it, I
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: really do think these kids are fucking crazy because they're
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: not getting whooped.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: No, they're not getting tested. They're on the spectrum. They
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: literally just need to go and maybe get into ESOL
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: We're all on the spectrum.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: No, all of us, but that's what I'm saying. You
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: need to be diagnosed correctly. Like for me, my sister, we.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Did not, Oh, maybe.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Bitch, they need to go to Excel or whatever.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: They need a learning plan.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: But not even learning plan.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: There's behavioral things that are attached. Like me and my
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: sister did not get along growing up. It wasn't until
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: she was an adult that she got diagnosed with BPD
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and bipolar.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, they need testing. But I want to get back
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: to what you said about your dad.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Talk to me.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: No.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Like, I think the fact.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: That your father didn't live in the same state as
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you is the only reason that kind of justifies, like, well, he's.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: He was, like, he was local. Like, he was still
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: in Florida.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole, like, well, he's not local, so, okay,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: he's playing child support.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: To me, that is still mediocre.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: It's not like he's down the street.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not down the street, right? He's not avoiding you.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But that's what I said.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: When he moved back to Orlando, this is when I
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: was in high school.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: When he moved back to Orlando.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: That's where I saw him popping up. Like, he would
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: pop up, and be like, Tommy! Walk into the kitchen,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: grab a beer, and her new boyfriends would be right there.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: That's so rad. And it was very disrespectful for my mom.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: But you know what?
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I think this is a measure of who your father,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know who he is now, but who he
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: was in that moment. But like the fact that, one,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: that he felt you all owed him anything for paying
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: $ 400 a month in child support.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Your children owe you something for that.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: But also the fact that when the paternity test comes,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: he doesn't see you all for a year.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Is that a devastating thing for a man? Absolutely. Should
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: any man have to go through that?
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: No. If you have formed a relationship with this child,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that is your fucking child.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: We're not talking about a two-year-old. How old was your sibling?
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, you said seventh grade? We're the same age.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: But how old was your sibling? She's sixth grade. I'm
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: seventh grade. So this is a 12-year-old.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So you've been in this child's life for 12 years.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: You're telling me that a piece of paper could destroy
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: what you and his child had for 12 years?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: You're not a fucking father. I disagree with that. And
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Wait, what?
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I disagree with that. Did I tell you about my brother?
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: So my brother was in the Army. Had kids, two
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: kids with a fiance while he was away. And mind you,
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: he was out during like 9-11. So he was in Afghanistan, Kuwait.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: He did the whole fucking 9-11 war tour.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Came back.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: The kids were like seven and eight by then. Did
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: a DNA test. Both kids weren't his. I can't tell
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: you if you ever saw those kids again.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: But he was gone.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: He believed that those kids were his. When he came
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: back home, he saw them, which to me is the
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: same as my dad not living with us.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: But it's the anger behind doing that to you, though.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Those would be my kids either way. But I guess
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying is your brother, if he was off
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: at the war, he couldn't see them once a month.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm curious to ask you.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: If you're seeing somebody once a month and thinking of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: them as your child, like, to me, that's different.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: And you also said he did it after the child
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: support raise. You don't deserve that.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. Not my brother.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Right, I know. You don't deserve that and your sister
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: doesn't deserve that just because your mom needed more child
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: support to take care of two kids.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Now you're questioning me? First thought, let's be very clear.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: All I know is I'm seeing both sides to everything.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: My mom did some shiesty shit. He's an adult who
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: had every right to be upset with all the things, financially,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: with him raising a child that he didn't have to
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: question was his. Like, these are all things that I just,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: I look at both sides of the coin. Do I
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: like him and think he's right?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: No.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, and I want
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: to get into something else you've mentioned in the book
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: as well. With talking about this, if you have a child,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: The child is the father's child. The father is the
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: mother's child. You don't like the distinction between the child
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: being called his child, your child, you want it to
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: be our child. I heard this, you talking about it
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: on the interview and basically, one moment, because I got
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: my notes. One of the most interesting things was because
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: y'all weren't together, You mentioned that sometimes you felt less
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: like that y'all were raising the child together and more
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: like you sometimes were caring for his child.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Kind of like a nanny.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: What is the dynamic between maybe hearing him say my
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: baby instead of our baby?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: No, it was just there's one specific time.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: So right after I found out he was engaged because
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't know.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So right after my daughter was born, March 29th.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: A few weeks later, right before Mother's Day, I find
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: out that he's engaged.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Whoa. How did you find out? He told you?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: No, he tried to tell me. So he hits me up.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: He's like, hey, so at this point, I've had the baby.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not really talking about, you know, I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: know he's dealing with somebody, but I don't really know
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: what's going on. We're not talking about that. He comes
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: by every night after work for a few hours.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: With the baby on weekends. He comes over a little longer.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? So we're co-parenting politely. He
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: says to me, like, hey, on Saturday, you know, there's
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: a Bulls game coming on. How about I come by?
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I'll order us some Chinese food. We watch the game.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I hang out with the baby.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, cool. I'm thinking this will be a wonderful day.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: We can be a family together. You can see how
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: wonderful it is.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You know, so he comes by early in the day.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I get to, like, wash my hair and go to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the grocery store and do stuff, you know, while he
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: takes care of the baby.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: He orders Chinese food. We sit. We're all with the baby. Like,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: 8 o'clock. It's dark, right? Dark out.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: He's like, I got to tell you something. And immediately
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I know it's about that woman.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: No.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: In my soul. And I say, get the fuck out
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: of my house.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Before you said it.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I said, you waited until nighttime? It might have
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: been later than that. Because I know I was like,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: my friends are either out or asleep.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: His anxiety.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: There's nobody I can talk. Nobody's going to help hold
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: my hand through this right now.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Through this right now.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And you're going to leave me by myself with your baby,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: our baby. to deal with whatever you're about to tell me,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: get out. So I tell him to get out.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: You still didn't know.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Still didn't know. I know it's about her. I thought
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the bitch was pregnant. That's what I assumed. I had
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: a troubled sleep. The next morning I wake up, I'm
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: getting text messages, are you okay? Because they announced their
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: engagement on Facebook. And, you know, a few hours later,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: he sends me an email, very formal, you know, saying, hey,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about this in person
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: last night because you weren't able to receive it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just letting you know that Jahan and I are
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: getting married on.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Are they still married?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Tuesday, July 2nd or whatever.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Day it was, you know, and she's moving here and,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you know, our new address is going to be. And,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: you know, it's crazy. So the thing that bothered me
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: is so I don't respond. You know, I don't respond.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I'm dealing with my devastation. I'm talking to my loved ones,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you know. And later that same day, he texts me
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: and says, how's my little girl? And I wanted to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: fucking hit the wall.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: What do you mean my little girl? You know, you
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: could have said, how's Naima? Right.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: You could have said, how's the baby? You know, like
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you just dropped a bomb on me. Right.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You're asking me, how's my little girl? So, yeah, I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: had that problem with that.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: But other than that, like, I think my daughter's father,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: you know, shout out to you, Dave. He's been a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: phenomenal co-parent in every other way, in every other way.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: How's it been? Curious for you. I've dated men. If
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: I was dating or, you know, dating men or men
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: with children before this engagement, I think I would probably
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: have prerequisites with the age.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: And maybe how much time has passed.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Most of us would. Most of us would. I'm shocked.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: But you know what?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I will say this. I was 28. He was 27.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: She was 24. We were babies.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: How is it with her now?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: How long?
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: How many years does it take?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I want to say. I met.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: So I wouldn't meet her. We had an encounter at
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Afropunk one year. You know, I used to meet her. Yeah.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Like I'm dressed.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: They have on a sheer jumpsuit with a bikini under it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm just drunk and high. It's living my best life.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: I see my daughter.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Shut up.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: And I was so intentional that year because Lenny Kravitz
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: was doing Sunday.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: I went to that one.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And so I forgot who was doing Saturday. And I
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: knew he would want to go to Afropunk, too. And
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I knew he liked Lenny Kravitz. So I hit him
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and I put him on the Lenny Cree. So I
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: put it as I hit him like, hey, I'm going
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to Afropunk on Sunday this year.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Thinking like, cool.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: You gonna stay at your black ass home?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: You gonna go on a different, you know, you can
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: go on Saturday, you can go, whatever, right? Like, I
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: got Sunday. But y'all didn't want to run into each other.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking we're not gonna run into each other. And
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I specifically think this is around child care, right? So
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going Sunday, you have to have the baby on Sunday, right?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: So he's like, cool. And he had told me on Saturday, like, oh,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: we brought the kids. So at this point, Naima has
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: a brother who's 18 months younger than her.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Oh my God, you thought it was him?
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: You know, and so... So at this point, like.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that the fiancé had got pregnant so
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: soon after.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, early in their marriage, they got pregnant. And so, like, so...
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So he mentions to me, I check in, hey, Saturday,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you know, how's it going? Because I think I was
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: going to pick her up Sunday night or something, right?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: And so, just like, hey, you know, how's the weekend going?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: He's like, good. We took the kids out to Afropunk.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: They had their little headphones, you know. I'm like, cool.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: So they went on Saturday. So nothing in me is
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: thinking they'll be there Sunday. So I'm dressed like.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: a proper hoochie, you know, living my best life.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: Like the shoes you got on today. Yes, I'm just.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Living life, you know? And I see her, and one
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of my besties, Stephanie, is like, we can go the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: other way. I'm like, that's my baby. I'm not going
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: to say hi to my baby. That's my child, you know?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: So I go over there, and I just am like,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: you didn't say you were coming today, you know? So wait,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: this is what happens first. So as soon as I
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: walk over, my daughter looks up to me. looks at
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: her stepmom, and her stepmom's like, say hi to your mom, Naima.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Mind you, this woman I haven't met yet. And she's like,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: say hi to your mom, Naima. My daughter burst into tears.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: She's overwhelmed. It's too much.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And so I'm drunk and high, so I'm not like, oh, sweet.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: So I look over at him like, why you didn't
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: tell me you were coming? He was like, oh, I
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: didn't necessarily think we had to share.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: They were there as a family. They were there as
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: a family.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm out here on Young Home Mode and it's
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the four of y'all looking like the perfect fucking Huxtable
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Brooklyn family that I always dreamed of at Afro Prime.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: That's what my life was like for a while. But
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: even with that.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: What was your encounter like with her? That was it.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: We didn't say anything to each other then. And we
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: had ran into each other once. My daughter was in
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: preschool and they had like a Kwanzaa show. And I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: remember one year, this was when her brother was a baby.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: So this was probably a few months before the Afropunk thing,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you know. And I see this woman kind of glaring
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: at me. And she's holding a baby. And I'm just like,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: who is this? I ain't dating nobody's man, you know.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like, oh. You know, because he and
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I at that point were at a nice little, hey,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: how you doing?
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: You know, we'd say hi and bye and go sit
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: on opposite sides of the room during the school performances,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and I see her and I'm.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, but.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: You know, about a year later, I think my daughter
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: was almost three. Yeah, she was almost, she was like
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: two and a half. And her brother was two. And
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: he was at her daycare center at that point. And
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I was in a relationship and I was really happy.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And her dad and I had been getting along well.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: And he'd always been a great dad, you know. And
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: so there was a Kwanzaa show. It was like the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: first one her brother did. And I just remember like,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: And what would usually happen is her dad would come in.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: He'd speak to me. Hey, how you doing? You know,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: we'd speak. Go sit on opposite sides of the room.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'd have friends or someone there with me. He'd
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: have her, and we'd just have our, you know, separate quadrants.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Y'all are better now, though, right? Yeah, we're so good now.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: But I was going to say, so anyway, so this
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: first show, I walk up to them just like, Hey,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: you guys staying for dinner?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: And she and I have been good ever since then.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: That's crazy.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Now, how good are y'all? And she apologized to me.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: How good are y'all? She apologized. Hold on, wait, wait.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: I want to hear this apology.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: She apologized to me. Apologized for what?
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think she owed you one, but I'd love
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: to hear why.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: In 2016, we moved to LA from New York in 2019.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: So this has to have been early spring 2019. She
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and I had gotten cool, and we talked. We could
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, did you see this movie?
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: What did you think?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of shit in common. He has
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: a type. Smart black feminist girlies. And so she asked
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: me out to drinks one night and we go out
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and I was and my mom was in town. I
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: remember being like, I think she wants to talk about something,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and my mom was like, what do you
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: think it is?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: And she was like, you know, it's funny because like
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: she's so self-assured and cool and like that's always been
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: her vibe. And she seems a little nervous, you know,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: and I thought that was different. You know, we thought
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: not nervous, but she's kind of like, you know, feeling
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the space like and finally she's just like, yeah, you know, like.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I wanted to apologize to you in terms of timing.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: You know, like I was so young and now that
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I've had a baby and now that I know what
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: it feels like to be pregnant, to be carrying someone's child,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I could have been more sensitive to what you were
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: going through at that time.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Wow. And so it wasn't about her marrying her, man.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: It was about the timing.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Because if you have been pregnant and you've carried a child,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: you know, even almost to term, you know what a
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: sensitive time that is. And so my body, I'm, you
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, people die. My tooth fell out.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Like, pregnancy is an attack on your body in so
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: many ways. And so I was fighting for my life
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: in a way to keep me and this child alive.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: You know, and also dealing with heartbreak and the added little.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: What a lovely thing to do because you know what?
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: If I had.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: To have another woman around my kid.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: But it speaks to the type of woman she is.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: That's why we have the family we have.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: That's so good.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Because of the character, the caliber of woman she is,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: the caliber of man he is, and the type of
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: woman I am. We have a happy, thriving, blended family
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: because we have all shown up and with love and
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: respect for each other.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: You know, and so.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Girl, now I see why you say a privilege.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: I wish my friends had this for themselves.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I wish so many people had it. I mean, the.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Internet scolds them when they do. I don't know if
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: you saw a couple months ago with the Bambi.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: No, not a lot of.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Uh with Bambi and Scrappy going on a trip together.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Going on a trip together is that something what are
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: your thoughts on co-parents who like knowing that he's married
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: would that be something would that be something where you
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: and him would be able to take your daughter on
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: a trip without the wife like is do you find
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: that to be respectful or something that could or should
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: be allowed without criticism?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on the circumstances. Like, one year,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: my daughter's father and I are both from Chicago. One year,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: he and I and our children went home for Thanksgiving
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and had dinner at his mother's house and his wife
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: didn't come.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: You know, my mom was there, you know, and I
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: was taking little sexy pictures in the bathroom for the
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: whatever loser dude I.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Was dating at the time. You know what I'm saying?
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Because it was awkward and a little weird.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Why didn't she come?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: She didn't want to come.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: She, like, Every year she's out like I the one
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: big difference between us. I have so much solo time.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I you know what I mean? Like I get to
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: be alone. She's in a household with two people who
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: never leave and one person who's there half the time. Right.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: So she doesn't have the same kind of, you know,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: move about the country space. She travels and she she
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: you know, she's a very empowered woman. I'm not trying
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to say like that. But she wanted to be by
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: herself for Thanksgiving. She wanted to have a couple days
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: to just vibe and chill. And so I have a
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: wonderful relationship with his mom. That wasn't my plan. You know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: when I went, when I decided I was going home
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, it wasn't to go to his mom's house.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: It was just I wanted to be with my family,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: you know? And she was like, oh, well, I heard
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: you and Naima are coming home. I'll cook dinner.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: You know, so we came. My mom came. We had
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: a nice time, you know?
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Can I ask you something that I've always thought maybe
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: is a hot take from my personal life, but I
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: would secretly not want to seriously date men with children
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: unless their baby mama was in a relationship.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: So I'll say this, like my experiences with dating men
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: with kids have not been positive at all. Hello. But
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I have always been open even before I had my daughter.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: My heart, I never felt like I couldn't date a
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: man with kids. I just very rarely met them. Right?
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I never, I was a big ab dater for a
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: long time. I never filtered them out. I just did
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: not meet many men with kids. I think it's a
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: New York thing. It's a New York thing.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I think we got lucky being in New York. Because
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: being in New York.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Yes. Because when I moved to California, I was 35,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and I started meeting men with kids. And again, it
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: makes sense with my age or whatever, because I had
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: my daughter at 28. I felt like a teen mom, right?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Nobody has a kid yet.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I'm the baby. I'm the only mom, you know?
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: That's a good age, too.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: It's a good age, you know? So, like.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: 35, okay, I'm on the app. I'm meeting a few
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: more men with children. Still, the majority of the men
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I meet and connect with don't have children, right? The
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: few that I met who had kids, the few that
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I dated with kids were the biggest assholes. They were either,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I'll say this, they were either noncommittal, right? They had
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: been divorced. They wanted to have fun. They didn't want
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: to settle down again.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: And they wanted that pussy raw probably.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: No.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just saying. These niggas with kids.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Be acting like that's even another part.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Of like, girl, you know what I'm talking about? You
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: make babies. I literally tell niggas. You know you make kids.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Babies bro put a goddamn condom on yes but but
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: also and then there was one guy i dealt with
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: who i mean actually mentioned the two because there's only
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: two men with kids i dated for any substantial amount
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: of time ever one for like three or four months
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: one for six months so like You know, and these
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: were neither of them became my boyfriend. So it was
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: one idea for three months. So I really liked it.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe four or five months. But I thought we had
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: a nice little thing. And I tried to schedule a
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: second date in a week. And he was like, I
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: think we're.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Moving too fast. Whoa.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Because he wasn't trying to get serious with nobody. Which
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: is crazy. But I did have the one who I
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: dealt with for about six months. And I realized after
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: maybe four months, like, all right.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: This is the situation shift. This is fun.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: This is not, you know, my next serious man. But
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: he went back to his child's mom. I feel like
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I have the opposite experience.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I want to tell you something that I judge.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm curious.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: And only because also this was my way of an upbringing.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: You are a single mom with a daughter. Mm-hmm. When
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: do you feel like it is appropriate to bring a
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: man into the home? And has that been a conversation
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: also with the baby's father?
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: You mean in the home where she is?
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Where they get to meet her. Or maybe even just
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: an outing. Well, no, that was a big thing. My
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: mom not bringing just men around us, especially when we
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: got older and started to develop.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: It was a very big thing, like.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: She dated them a long time before they were able
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: to come to the home. Is that a thing with you?
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Is it a thing that, okay.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: And how did you navigate that? Not even just because
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: she's a girl.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I just feel that as a parent, you know, whether
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you're me, I'm dating for myself, but ultimately wanting to
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: partner and settle down with someone, right? There are single
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: moms who don't want to settle down. They just want
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: a partner for them.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Right? That's a different situation.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: But there are also single moms who do not have
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: a father figure for their children and want one. So
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: that's a very different kind of dating. And I will
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: say this, I have a former friend who, you know,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: and I would always talk about like, that ain't something
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you need to do until, you know, it's locked into
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: a series. She was like, well, I actually kind of
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: want to do a test. I want to see what
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: this looks like, you know, before we get too deep,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: because I'm not going to commit to you if this
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: isn't right. You know, that's not my, I haven't had
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: to navigate that walk, but I'll stay for me with
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: somebody again who has a dad.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: So anything else you get is a bonus.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Right. In terms of me bringing someone in, my daughter
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: has only met two men who I have been in.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: Two men in 13 years, girl. These bitches cannot say
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Committed relationship.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: So someone you're just dating casually doesn't get.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: To meet your daughter. Yeah, casually dating, like that doesn't need,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Now, if I'm walking down
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the street. I'm talking to the mic. I'm sorry. You
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: was way off. I know, I was way off. Way off.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: But if I was, you know, walking down the street
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: with my daughter and ran into somebody I was seeing casually,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have avoided, you know what I'm saying? Like,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: depending on how casual it was, some people just like,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, it.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Might have been like, oh, hi, this is Steve. Steve,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: this is Naima. We go about our separate ways.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: What do you think that appropriate time frame is?
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's. You know, I think it varies.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it does get a little small,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: shorter as you get a little older. You know, I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: realize things accelerate a little quicker after 35. But I
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: would say once your boyfriend, girlfriend, you know, once you're like,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: this is my partner. So this is someone who's going
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: to be in my life. This is somebody who I
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: am ultimately hoping to do this thing with.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: I wonder, like your friend said, if I don't have kids,
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: I guess I can't engage it, but I Could I
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: have a boyfriend that hasn't met my kid yet? I
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: do wonder if there's this. I'm thinking about Love, Brooklyn.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you all watched it, but in Love, Brooklyn,
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: that wasn't her man, but she felt like he was
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: a safe enough space. Something right around that time frame,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: I think, because I would be worried about committing myself
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: to someone. I take boyfriend pretty serious, I guess. That
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: means I think we're on a track to marriage at least.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: I'm just wondering.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Fuck.
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: My kid fucking hates you. I'm obviously going to let
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: you go.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the thing.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: You also have to be able to make a decision
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: based on what your child needs and wants.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: You know, like if you if your child and that
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: person don't work out, why?
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: Are you finding that men as a single mother, I
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: think the most uncomfy conversation I have with friends are
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: that men don't want to date them.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Men want me.
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: Can you tell me.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my single friends, they be dating. Straight to camera.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: They be getting fucked. They be getting dated. Men want me.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Can I just say this straight to the camera? Yes, please.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Men want me. And not just to fuck me. Men
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: want to be with me. That has not been my challenge.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: The challenge in the past was finding the man who
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: wants to be with me who I also wanted to
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: be with.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: But in terms of men.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: being open to a committed relationship with me because I
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: had a child, that's just not something, there's just so
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: few examples I have of somebody ever articulating that to me.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: My mom had three and was getting up.
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: I think that's great to hear because that's not what
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: we receive online. That's not what the noise is about.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: That's not what women are now. It's almost, I would
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: even compare it to, you know how we feel like,
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: Women are judged for being single. They absolutely are. I
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: actually believe my friends are now letting that bleed into
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: their psyche of feeling unwanted because they have either young children.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: Or it's gone too long and like no one wants
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: to deal with it. And it just seems to be this.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Tell her to read my book.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: It's not the truth. It's not the truth. Because we hoes.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: So like. Yeah. The whole shit.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: No. The whole. They said hoes wasn't going to have nobody.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: They said moms wasn't going to have nobody. They said
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: big girls wasn't going to have nobody. Dark skinned girls.
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: No.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Bad bitches get picked. If you are.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Bad in your specter of fucking, you don't have to
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: have a bust down or long eyelashes or stiletto. If
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: you have your head up high, you feel good about yourself,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: you carry yourself with some shit, the pickings are slim,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: all right? It's not a lot of great men out there.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: So it's not that we're all going to get picked.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that the ones who are out
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: here really trying for it and really want to be
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: with somebody, it's not impossible just because you have.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: X, Y, Z thing.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: Is there an archetype of a man, truthfully? Because I
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: really want to know the man that is good enough
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: to be dating someone if I had a kid while single, right? Like,
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: if I was a single mother, what type of men
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: have you noticed are more likely to be like, hell yeah,
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: I don't mind. Like, I would love to meet Naima. Like,
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: I would welcome a new daughter in my life or
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: being a bonus dad.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: So in terms of the type of men... That I
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: would suggest single moms focus on kind-hearted, generous, open-minded. If
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: they show off, excuse me, if they immediately show up
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: conservative about certain things, if they're saying things about, well,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I never saw myself being a stepdad.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: If they have any hesitation, move on. Because there's somebody
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: who wants to. Also, men who were raised by stepfathers.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Great one. That's a great one.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to say, if I'm a single mom
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: looking to date, men who are open-minded.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: We got all that part.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Men who are raised by stepdads, right? People who are
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: from blended families, you know? So whether they're a parent
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: or not, somebody who's seen that work.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: It has to work, though. And that was healthy.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: It has to be a healthy, positive situation.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: Such a great example.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: You know, and again, maybe they saw it not work,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: but they still get the concept, right? Like, hey, this
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: person stepped in and was willing to be a parental figure,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: somebody who wasn't their child, you know, somebody who wants
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: to be a parent. Don't try to get somebody who
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: said he never wanted kids and try to convince him
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: to step parent your child.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Right. And also be mindful. What does your child or
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: children need from this man?
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Do they need a provider? Do they need a parental figure?
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Is he just a bonus dad? Can he just be
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Disney dad and be for fun? You know, is he
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: just an additional trusted adult? But no matter what, he
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: has to be someone you feel safe. You know, if
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: you have a heart attack in the middle of the night. Right.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: The kid is at your house. This person is going
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: to take care of your child. He's responsible.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Somebody who's responsible. So somebody who loves and enjoys children.
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: It's good to bring up someone not wanting kids because
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: we talk about the dynamics of both of us wanting children.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be.
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: I don't want to be. And I think that like
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: for my male friends that don't want kids. One thing
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: I try to drill in their head is like. There's
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: so many women that don't want children that you can meet.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Like, stop.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Focus on them. Leave the moms alone. If you don't
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: want a woman with kids. And the thing is, this
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: is something that if you're a mom with kids. You
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: have to be mature enough. You have to be the
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: one to see the difference between a man who wants
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: children around or a man who tolerates children. You do
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: not trust a man who tolerates children around your fucking kids.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Those are your kids.
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: How do we know the difference in your experience?
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: It's obvious.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: So to be fair, because I'm not introducing my baby
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: to just anybody, I never had to witness that. But
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: listen to how they talk about kids. Do they genuinely
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: like kids? Do they fuss over a cute baby when
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I see them? Do they have nieces and nephews? Do
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: they talk about, do they not have any children in
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: their lives? None of their friends have kids that they
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: give a fuck about. You know what I'm saying? Like
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: guys who love kids, let that be known early, right?
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: They show up, you walking down the street, they see
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: a baby.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Y'all are on the airplane.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: That's always on my telltale. in my telltale whenever I'm
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: around men I'm listening every time we pass any baby
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: sometimes my nigga be like that's a cute little white
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: baby like I need to know something you see the
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: babies because it's scary because I actually think women that
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: want kids which maybe let's just say if it's 75%
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know but I feel like I've had men
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: almost lie to.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Me a little.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: They will absolutely lie to you. They will tell me,
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: they want to, oh yeah, I want to have a
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: little meat. It's not a real desire to have. Child
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: energy is a lot of energy. Like, you need to
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: know how to play with kids.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: My man said something to me and I would implore
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: single mothers to hear this because it never hit me
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: until he described it like this. It was a woman
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: he dated before me. They said, I didn't realize how
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: hard it was for her to play with kids. Like
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: she didn't know how to get on the ground or
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: be silly.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: He's like, it was almost like it was difficult.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Like she was sweet.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: She was huggy, but she didn't know how to get
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: in there. And he was like, that's alarming for someone
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: that you think is going to be a person you'd
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: have kids with.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Do you know how to like change your way? Like
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: be silly, make up shit. Yeah. And that, for single
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: moms to tolerate, I hope that.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: We all are noticing that. You have to notice that.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: And men will lie.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I remember once I was at an event. I was
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: at a Greek event, at a CAFA event.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: And I complained.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I immediately looked around. I mean, it was an outfit event.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: It was a fraternity event. And I looked around and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, where are the men under 40? You know,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: because I don't like this. And one of the guys
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: who was clearly over 40 was like, oh, I'm under 40.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: You know, so we're chitchatting. And so he mentions, you know,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: he has kids and I have a daughter. And he's like,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: do you want more? I was like, yeah, I'd like another.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: He's like, well, I don't want any more kids. I'm like, oh,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I'd actually like to have another child. And he's like, oh,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: that ain't no problem. We can have another kid. Just
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: that quickly, he went from I don't want a kid
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: so we can have a kid. This man would have
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: wasted up my few remaining fertile years.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Just be fucking cussed. He didn't even know me.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Like, why are you lying to me?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: What have I done to impress you so much? You
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: need to fucking lie. That's it.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: That was it. He was going to waste my time.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: So you have to be clear with somebody. As far
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: as it relates to kids, period, whether you have them
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: or not, once you lock in with someone, y'all need
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: to have an honest conversation. And you do have to,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: as a woman, unfortunately, you have to be prepared. Any mother,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: any woman who desires, like you said earlier, to have
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: a child, you must be prepared to be a single mom.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: This man can tell you he dreamed his whole life
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: of being a dad and leave you the next day.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: You don't have any way of knowing.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Married, not a bus. Anything could happen.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: If you are willing to be a mother, you have
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: to be willing to be a single mother. But also,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: what I want women to know is that being a
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: single mother is not a fucking death sentence.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I've had a fabulous life.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: And again, I know there are some charm things about
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: my situation. You know what I'm saying? But like, your
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: single mother, is your life good, period? Is it good now?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Because if it's not good now, being a single mother
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: is not going to necessarily make it better.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: But if your shit's already good... You know what I mean?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: You can figure out how to take care of that child.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: You can continue to have a good life.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: I think people don't really want to have kids, right? Like,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: I'm getting married, but I want children more than I
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: think about I want family. Like, I want a kid.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: It's not the obsession of white picket fence. And I think, like,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of times when women are having children, they're
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: in love with a man, and they have a fantasy.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: And sometimes that idea that you just mentioned of, are
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: you prepared to be a single mom? Do I want it? No,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: but I would be.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: If I didn't have that man in my life.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: And I think any, I think then that means you're
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: probably ready to be a mom, you know, because no
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: matter how good things are going, you could leave the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: wedding pregnant and he.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Gets hit by a bus. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Like it's just at any moment you have to be prepared.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: So wait, any man who becomes a father, you need
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: to be prepared. And the difference.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: And them niggas ain't be, Them niggas think it's going
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: to be straight.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: And the difference for us and them is because we
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: do have the ultimate say-so of whether a baby is
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: born or not.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: They need to be prepared for that with anybody they're
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: laying down with unprotected. You know what I'm saying? You
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: have to prepare for the possibility.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: It may not be a guarantee, but you're fucking somebody raw,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you might make a child. You know, you could be
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: fucking somebody not raw. You still might make a child.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: That is the risk that sex carries.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Agreed. Well, what.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: can everyone expect from black single mother and.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Where can they get the book? My book, should I
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: go straight to camera? Let's make sure you're talking to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: the mic, though. Straight to the mic. There we go.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: My book is available wherever books are sold. Small booksellers,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: large booksellers, controversial booksellers. You know, it is a fun
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: book in a lot of ways. It's an emotional rollercoaster
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: in others. I am celebrating single mothers, particularly Black single mothers,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: and giving them their flowers. But I'm also talking about
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: the complicated relationship between Black men and Black women.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: And some of the things we need from our men.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking about some of the things that Black
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: women and particularly Black mothers need to know to love
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: and celebrate and protect and advocate for ourselves and how
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: we should be showing up as women in this community.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: I went into this book wanting to defend and celebrate
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Black single moms. I came out of it. Now I'm
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: a Black single mom supremacist. I think we are the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: most essential group of people in the community. You know,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: we keep institutions and families and.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: The world turning.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: And so if you have Black single moms in your life,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: if you have single moms in your life, period, you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: need to support them. You need to celebrate them. You
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: need to make them feel affirmed. You need to help
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: them out. And if you are a Black single mom
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: or if you're considering being one, because a whole lot
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: more women of all races these days are considering single
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: mom by choice, right?
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Know that you are sufficient. Know that you are enough.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: You need a village.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: You need a team. You need support. You shouldn't be
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: doing it entirely alone. But if you are doing it
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: by yourself, know that you love your kids.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: You're doing everything you can by them. And you are enough.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I love that. Chimney Lil, thank you for coming on
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: for the third time. Thank you for having me.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: Has anyone else done three? The next book?
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Yes. I'm trying to think if anyone else has done three.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I would have to look through it. There's been people
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: who have come on a couple times.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Three?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: Three's a lot. Eden.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Eden, come on.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: Wolf.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: Damn, three is hard. Wolf has been on quite a bit.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: But it doesn't count.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: You're not lying. Akeem Woods? He ain't been on three,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: but almost.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: Damn, that's a hard one.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, three might be the most.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: Not you want to have a threesome.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Came it on now.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Well, guys, if you are or haven't read our New
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: York Times bestselling book, No Holes Barred, make sure you
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: also cop that at whatever controversial bookstore, small bookstore, large
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: bookstore as well and pick it up with Black Single Mother.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: If you are looking for the sex, the raunch.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: The nasty.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: It didn't go away.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: We are still over on Patreon.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: So go to patreon.com backslash horrible decisions. And y'all, this
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: has been another episode of Decisions Decisions.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: Bye everybody.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Bye.