Latest / The You Project / #2234 Dr. Sam Casey

Transcript

#2234 Dr. Sam Casey · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, g'day team. It's Dr. Sam and it's almost Dr.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Jumbo.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious, isn't it? Imagine if I was actually. I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: definitely won't be calling myself that because it's just unnecessary. Hi, Sam. Dr. Sam,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: how are you?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: I'm good. How are you, Craig?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm good. You look very healthy. You look very super healthy.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Is that just a filter or is that just your face?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: That is just my face, but I'm not sure if
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: that represents the inside.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I definitely don't feel super healthy.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you did tell me that you had a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: solid week of work and we're recording on Friday and
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: what are you guys two hours ahead or behind?
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Behind.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So you're? 8.30. 8.30. So today off or you got
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: work today?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I've got some of my own work to do, but
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: it's definitely more of a cruisier day.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: So, yeah.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: How does the psychologist, how does she look after herself?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Does she know stuff that us? regular humans don't? Do
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you have a particular go-to? Like, do you have a
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: thing that always just allows you to switch off quickly
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: or recuperate?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I think that the thing for me has always been
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: strength training. I just absolutely love it. I feel like
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: it hits the just something different, right? Compared to talking
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: things out or trying to relax. I think that strength
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: training just challenges me in a different way. And I
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: noticed as well with different seasons of life, how that
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: can change. Sometimes I'll fully give it my all and
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: it will help me through that season. Other times I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: notice I'm slacking on it and it's just like showing up.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: And I do lots of horrible workouts, but I'm like, oh,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I just I need to be able to still show
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: up with that. So, yeah, tracking my strength training has
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: always just been the thing for me. If nothing else,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I that will be the last thing to go. And
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the first thing I'll add back in on a stressful week.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: And what does your protocol look like with strength? How
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: often do you lift weights?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So I like to do it five times a week.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I'll do three lower body days.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So I'll do it like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I'll do two upper body days, which is the Tuesday
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and the Thursday. Sometimes I'll move that schedule around because
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I do actually like training on weekends because I've got
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: more time. But yeah, it always follows that like five
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: day split.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So I just asked chatters. What are the emotional and
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: psychological benefits of strength training? Because that's kind of what
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: we're talking about here and not just the physical as well.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: But like because I was thinking some people, when I say,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: what do you do for you? Like you're a bit tired,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: you're a bit da-da-da-da. Some people would think you might say, oh,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: foot spa or head massage or Netflix or chicken soup.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: And you went, yeah, I want to go and lift
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: heavy shit. So yeah, it's crazy.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like that stuff almost like stresses me more sometimes.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Like if I'm going to go to, you know, get
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: my nails done, it's because I need my nails done.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Not because I actually like the process, to be honest,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: it's more the strength training that yeah, lifting heavy shit
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: actually does something. And I feel like if I'm happy,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: that's what I want to do. If I'm sad, that's
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: what I want to do. If I'm stressed, it's, you know,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: my go-to. So, um, it just, it works for all
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the things.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So here's what AI tells us. Resistance training is associated
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: with reductions in depressive symptoms and improvements in general psychological well-being. Tick.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Can also reduce anxiety symptoms and help regulate the physiological
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: stress response. Tick. We love that. Repeatedly doing difficult things
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and seeing yourself improves builds the belief that you can
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: handle hard things. Tick. Improves self-esteem, not just because of appearance,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: but because people experience themselves becoming stronger, more capable and competent.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Stress reduction. Training provides a physical outlet for tension and
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: can improve emotional regulation. Stress, oh, sorry, better sleep. Resistance
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: training can improve sleep quality, which subsequently influences mood, concentration, resilience,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: improve cognitive function. Evidence tells us benefits for executive function,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: attention and memory are associated strongly with strength training, particularly
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: as we age. So if you want your brain to
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: work better as you get older, go and lift some
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: heavy shit. Sam is definitely nowhere in the, not even
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: close to middle age, but anyway.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, but the attention and the focus and the memory,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: these are all things I definitely struggle with. And, you know,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I do think that strength training, like I said, hits
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: differently compared to just like doing an exercise class, for example, or,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: you know, different kinds of exercises that I've tried.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's not even comparable.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So I think, you know, for somebody, if they do
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: struggle with exercise, it is worth trying different things especially
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: stroke training because you definitely find it will be different.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I've started experiencing something funny in the last especially the
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: last few months which I'm wondering if you experience a
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: lot um and that is people when they find out
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like I've just handed in my PhD right yeah
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: or people meet me or or they're new right um
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: or they don't know me well or People go, oh,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: my God. They like jokingly say, I don't want to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: talk to you because you're already diagnosing me. Are you
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: assessing me? They're really scared about what they say then
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: because they think I'm some diagnostic machine wearing a flannel
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: shirt that's just going to. People worry because I'm like, one,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not a psychologist, so you don't have to worry
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: about that. But do people get self-conscious around you because
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: you're a clinical psychologist and literally part of what you
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: do is assess people?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Well, luckily I'm not a clinical psychologist, but having a
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: PhD in psychology, you're right. I still get that though,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: because people will assume that I'm always psychoanalyzing people, that
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I enjoy people watching. I had this conversation actually the
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: other day with some workmates and they, you know, were
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: talking about enjoying people watching. And I was like, I
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: just don't do that. And they're like, what do you mean? Like,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: wouldn't you be the one, if anyone, right, to psychoanalyze people?
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't. I'm probably just more worried
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: about me, right?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Like I really try and focus on being present, which
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: means I wouldn't be doing any of that stuff. But
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I generally don't. Like if I'm not in a session
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: with someone, my mind's just not ticking away in that thing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, my mind definitely overthinks. So that's like a different,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: probably with myself though. And maybe I probably analyze myself
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: way too.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Much, but.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: When it comes to other people, I definitely don't feel
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: like I am constantly doing that. And if anything, I
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: much prefer, at least in my personal life, to have
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: those friends and those people around me that don't just
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: see me as a therapist, that see me as Samantha, right?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like often when you hang around people that
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: only see you as like Dr. Sam, you're you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: you tend to get more of those comments, right? They
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: kind of put you a bit on a pedestal and
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: they do think you're analyzing them. They do think that
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: you're perfect and they do think that you've got everything together.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And I just don't like that because that's obviously not me.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: So I'm much more of a people that understand Samantha
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and make jokes about like Samantha.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Like I'm, I'm always late. Like that's probably like a
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: thing about me.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Right. So all my friends know that I'm always late
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and that's like a running joke. Um, you know, I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: can be super disorganized at times too, again, running jokes.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm much, I think that that's really important when,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you know, in even for you as well.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: That's one part of you, right?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: The PhD or the intellectual side, but then there's all
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: these other parts and we really need to be able
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: to foster those other parts and realize that we're also
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: multidimensional like this and multifaceted and that's how it should be.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. Some people know me only through
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the podcast. So that's where they've met me. They don't
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: know anything else. Some people know me from the older
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: days where I was just this gym industry dude, fitness
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: industry dude who owned these gyms and kind of was
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: a tiny bit loud and outspoken and all that kind
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: of stuff and spoke at fitness conferences and all that.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: And then other people knew me only from radio because
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I worked on one station in Melbourne for nearly 15 years.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So they didn't even know that I'd owned gyms or
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I'd written a book or some people read my books
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and then that's the only way they know me is
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: through that. And it's funny. So people have an idea
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of you understandably as they should. I mean, we all
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: form ideas or perceptions or judgments, good or bad, of
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: people based on our interaction with them, whether or not
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that's a real world face-to-face interaction or seeing them on
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the television or seeing a something on instagram like you've
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: you're not it's not a good or bad thing it's
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a human thing because it.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Just happens can you see though where it gets um
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: like unhelpful for either them or for you like do
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you do you feel like there is this thing right
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of kind of putting people on pedestals and then it
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: becomes this like separation right.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Of 100 i think you don't want to go i
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: think if you have yeah this is a good question
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: right so what i think is Moving through the world,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: realizing that you're always evaluating, always judging, always perceiving, always
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: assessing risk, right? Because that's what our brains are, as
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you know, they're a risk. assessment tool, among other things.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: But always, and this is the self-awareness piece that is
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: very difficult, also realizing that the thing that I'm seeing
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: might not be the thing. This is just my perception
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: of the thing. So I've met people that, in fact,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I went out with a girl. And will I embarrass her? No. Anyway,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: she's great. She's now happily married with kids. She dodged me,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: which was well done her. You know, good thing. Anyway,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: her name's Tammy. I'll give a shout out to Tammy, right?
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And when I first met Tammy- She was at one
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of my gyms and she just was a client, not
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: of mine, of someone else, and very attractive, all of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the things. And I honestly, sorry, Tam, I thought she
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: was a bit of a snob, right? A bit of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a snob, a bit happy with herself because she was attractive,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: all that. And by the way, I was wrong. This
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: is just my judgment based on what I thought I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: was seeing. So I'm like, yeah, that pretty– kind of
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: snobby lady that comes and trains with old mate, right?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And then one of my friends, who was also her friend,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: said to me, why don't you ask Tammy out? And
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I went, Tammy, Tammy? I go, Tammy, Tammy? She's like, yeah.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I go, she doesn't even fucking like me, right? So
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I had this thing that, anyway, the whole thing was, one,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: she was kind of shy. And anyway, all of it
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I got wrong. All of it I got wrong. And
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: it's so, but I 100% had no idea I was wrong.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: What's my point? My point is we're always forming impressions
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: or perceptions, but we don't often think it's quite possible
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: that what I believe is completely wrong.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: And also when we get information to suggest that, Sometimes
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: we can be a bit rigid and actually going, you
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: know what, I thought this, but I was wrong about this.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: And this is kind of what I believe now with
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: this new information. I think that that's another huge thing
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: as well. And also the way that like that initial perception,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: it could be.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: More like, oh, would she like me?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: You know, like we can form opinions on things also
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: because of that as well.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I had no doubt that she did not
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: like me. So the idea of my friend suggesting that
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: her and I, go out or something or spend a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: bit of time together was.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Ridiculous to me because she's clearly not.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Interested in me. In fact, I would say the opposite,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: you know, and I was anyway. So who knows? Who knows?
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But it is that like realizing that there's the thing
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that's going on in the world and then there's your
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: story about it, like your perception of that and how
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: helpful or accurate or inaccurate that might be.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: And I think about this. I mean, I see this
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: a lot, you know, with women too, right? Of comparing
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: themselves to other women or running other women down or
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: it's a bit like the gossiping, right? It's like, oh,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: you know what's happening in this person's relationship and whatever else.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: But you kind of got to think... why does this
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: bother me, right? Or why am I interpreting in that way?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: What else could be going on for me? So you're
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: going to notice people, for example, right? If they're super
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: critical of other people's relationships, maybe they're struggling in their relationship.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And so rather than kind of like looking at that situation,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: they're kind of critiquing everyone else's. So I think that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: kind of getting to the core of how we're interpreting
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: things and rather than seeing it as a reflection of
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that person we're interpreting, going, I wonder what could be
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: underneath my interpretation. Like, have I noticed patterns with it
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: that I'm always looking at it with a really critical
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: lens or I'm always, yep, trying to find the problem
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: in it, for example.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yes. And maybe always trying to find the thing that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: we're most comfortable with.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, or if there's an issue, well,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: clearly the issue isn't me. So, you know, it's like
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: clearly Sam. So we're having a moment, but Sam will
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: come to her senses and Sam will realise how silly
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: she is and that I'm right or whatever it is. Yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the more we analyse other people,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily help us with ourselves and understanding ourselves
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: and why we do what we do. So I think
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it would actually be way more beneficial if we're able
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to look at our own patterns a bit more, right,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: rather than.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yes. 100%. And we're not really analysing other people because...
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: It's not in any way anything close to some kind
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of objective analysis, right? Because it's a subjective story that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: we are telling ourselves based on our own bullshit anyway.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a story, right?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: If you think of it as a story, it's like,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: would this story be helpful to them or not? I
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: think about that with kids, right? You know, being a
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: child therapist, I see this a lot when, you know,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: you're working with, say, teachers or other professionals or even
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: parents and they have a story about a child.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: And so it's like the child did X.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And it's because he was just trying to manipulate the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: situation and it's because he just wants the attention. And
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: so you've got objective things, right? It's like what the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: child did, but then you've got this interpretation in this
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: story about what they believe that happened. And if you
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: get to the bottom of that road, right? With the story,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: it's like, is this child just bad then? Like, is this,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: is this, are their intentions just bad? Like, is this
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the end of the story? Because if it is, how
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: is that helpful for us actually understanding the child and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: supporting the child and that child growing versus other stories where, yep,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: the child did this, but what could be going on
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: underneath and getting curious? And when you hear those kinds
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: of stories, it's not necessarily going, this is just it,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: this kid's just a bad kid.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: It's like, there's something here, right? That's causing this.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And we may not see it right now, but I
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: do believe that there's something, it's almost like having this,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I would say a generous interpretation.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: I think Dr.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Becky Kennedy termed that coin, a generous interpretation.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: When we have that, it gives us somewhere to go.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: You know, versus when you hear other people talk, you know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: run other people down, it's like, okay, and then what then? Like,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: if that's just them and who they are, then where
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: do we go from there? Like, that's not really, it's
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: not a helpful interpretation for them and it's not helpful
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: for us either.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I know you're not a doctor, so this is not science.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: This is just your observation and perhaps feelings about this,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: but youngish kids, let's say six and under, being prescribed
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: medication for, you know, whether or not it's anxiety or,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: you know, any other kind of mental health challenge. What
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: are your feelings about that, about kids being prescribed?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone, not a prescription, not a recommendation, just, oh,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I wish I could just let everyone know that. It's like, no,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: we're just having a chat on a podcast.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: It's a tricky one because, you know, a lot of
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: parents get pressure from schools as well, right, to get
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: their child medicated and diagnosed as well to be able
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: to cope in the classroom environment and they're noticing holes
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: in their learning and all of that. So, I mean,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I guess that's a piece of the puzzle there that
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to completely eradicate. But what I think
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: about any mental health issue with a child, whether it's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: anxiety and depression or ADHD, There is so much about
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: our interpretations as the adults around the child as well
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that comes into play with this.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: And so quite often when.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: A child's experiencing these issues, they're the first one to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: get a therapy and the therapy is happening behind closed
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: doors and then they're kind of plonked back in the environment.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: You think about us as an adult, right? If we
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: went to therapy for say anxiety, we're talking about what's
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: going on in our lives, how we're seeing things, how
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: we're interpreting things. We can then go back into our
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: lives and make those changes and those shifts and And,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of GPs will agree with this, right,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that that medication was meant for like a short term, right,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like let's get to baseline or let's stabilize so that
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: you can kind of learn these skills and then we
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: can kind of wean off it. So, again, it's a
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle, but I feel like what's happening
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: these days, it's the main piece, right? it's kind of
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the go-to it's the first thing that we go to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: it's like there's something here that just because it does
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: it does work so effectively if you look at it
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: from an outside point of view right a child's got
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: anxiety they take medication maybe they will seem like they
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: don't but it's not really getting to the core issue
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: and so I think again all these things are pieces
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: of the puzzles but we're just not getting to know
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: these other pieces.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a problem yeah I agree I
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: think it's like well we're treating the symptoms quite effectively
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: because that You know, that anxiety or that, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: hyper whatever or the depression or the, you know, whatever
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the issue is, like we give them something for that
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and it seems to diminish or alleviate that, which is good,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: which is great. But it's not. But as soon as
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: we go off the drug, it's back.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And then when you think about it, is it great?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Because I think about, let's just say, fast forward to adults, right?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: We're talking about addiction. The drugs and the alcohol aren't
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the problem. It's what it actually does, which is suppress
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: and avoids emotions. And so if you then take it
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: all the way back to childhood, are children actually getting
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: to feel their anxiety and to not fear it then, right?
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: To actually, whether it's understand it, whether it's sit with it,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: whether it's knowing I can feel it and still be
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: okay and I can still move towards these actions. I
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: think we're not giving children enough space to actually feel
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: these uncomfortable emotions and know they're gonna be okay. And
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: so what that leads to is if we're always trying
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: to keep them comfortable and happy, When they're adults, they're
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: going to feel all these things and they don't know
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: how to cope with it.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: And so what do they do? They self-medicate.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: That's when the drugs and the alcohol comes in because
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: they're like, I'm grieving someone that I've lost, but I
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: can't feel this. I need to just put this away.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: They don't know how to process and work through emotions.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: So I think it's really good to look at that
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: bigger picture stuff because if we're like, okay, if that's
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: kind of the driver, right of addictions and we go
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: all the way back to childhood we're like how can
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: we actually support our child especially with anxiety to be
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: like okay what are we thinking what are we fearful
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: about it oh that's the thought okay let's like reframe that.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Let's validate that.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Let's, you know, give them experiences like doing hard things, right,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: where they can work through that. They can feel capable.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: No medication is going to be able to replace that. Yeah. Um,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: so I think it's kind of equipping either parents or
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: other professionals to be able to actually look at our
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: own fears, right? Like you, any, any parent or professional
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: will know when you see a child in distress, it
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: makes you distressed. Like you want to help them. You
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: want to save them. You want to fix them. So
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: it's actually so much of our own anxiety that gets
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: them asked to want to fix it for them so
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: quickly rather than go, it's telling them something about what's
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: going on inside them. How can we actually help them
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: move through it in a in a way that's going
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: to support them in the future to be able to
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: do this.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Let's say a kid's chucking what looks like, for me,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the non-parent moronic male to be a tantrum. How do
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I know if that's not just a child being precocious
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and behaving badly and wanting attention and wanting to control
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the situation or there's actually some significant mental health issue
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: going on? Because surely both of those options are possible.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: And again, it's our interpretation when you think about it
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: as well. So if you were a parent in that situation, okay,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, let's say when do tantrums usually happen?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Is it like at the shops or something, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: When they want something and you've said no, like we've
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: got something at home, we're not going to go buy this. Now,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: a child doing that, you could say, okay, it's for attention. Now,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: every child wants connection, so that's still a valid thing.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: And for a lot of kids, yes. they only get
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the attention or connection when they're misbehaving. So if we're
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: not giving it to them when they're literally doing nothing, right.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And just kind of giving them this love and connection throughout,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: you know, and we're only behavior managing, then yeah, they're
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: going to go to that.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: So, cause it works.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Right. So that makes sense. And that's something that we
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: really need to work hard to rewire. But if it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: about the chocolate, you know, for kids it makes sense
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: like they want autonomy they wanted this we've said no
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: and they're distressed about it now we can still validate
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: that and going they actually just don't know how to
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: cope right with not for example getting what they want
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: it's really hard they were disappointed and all those feelings
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: make sense but what do we do about the behavior
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: we stick firm with the boundary for example we've set
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: a boundary And this is something that they need to
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: experience that, you know, they're always not going to be
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: happy with our decisions and that's okay, but this is
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: still what's happening. And so kind of helping, we kind
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: of need to work ourselves through that, right? Just because
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: they're having a tantrum, we don't need to give them
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the chocolate. Just because they're doing it doesn't mean we're
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: doing something wrong. So we're trying to coach ourselves in
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: these moments. Now, we understand the lead up to that,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: which is like, we're going around the shops, they wanted something,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: we said, no, boom, that happens. Makes sense, okay? And
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: they need more experience with this. You could be another
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: parent that's like, taking your child to the doctor's appointment
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: and going, I don't even know what's up with this
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: kid out of nowhere. They just lose it. There's something
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: wrong with them. I don't see a lead up.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: They're just out of control.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And can you see how that interpretation could a hundred percent?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, the doctor's just going from what you're saying, right?
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And you're just going from what you genuinely believe in
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: and see, um, But yeah, then that person, that doctor
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: is going to be like, is there something medically wrong
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: with this kid? Do they have this disorder? Versus the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: first parent, they're like, okay, this makes sense in the context.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not agreeing with the way that the child was,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the tantrum, but it actually kind of makes sense.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: They just.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: yep, developmentally, this is kind of where they're going on
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: right now. And maybe they could be like, oh, that
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: last time when they did that, I gave that chocolate.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Like that's true. That's kind of what happened, right?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Or every single time we go to the shops, they
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: do get that chocolate. So this is all new for them.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Like it's really, I think about us unpacking our interpretations
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: around this a lot of the time, because that's essentially
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: what the child experiences, what we interpret.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: What about supermarket busy day lots of lots of people
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: buying all their stuff and you've got the kid having
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: a meltdown who's quite unreasonably like it's not like there's
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: actually a legit problem they're not just not getting what
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: they want um are we likely to respond differently in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a public environment to at home with nobody.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Watching Of course, because you know that people are judging.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Like you think about the mom that say has a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: baby in her hand and a toddler's like, I want
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: this chocolate and I'm not leaving. And the mom's like
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: literally carrying the groceries and this baby who's maybe screaming
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: for the next feed. It actually makes sense that mum
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: would be like, in this way, I'm going to pick
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: my battle. I'm going to get the chocolate because I
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: just need to get out of here. Like I'm feeling overwhelmed.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: So I don't think that there's a wrong or right answer,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: but you could imagine people are going to judge you
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: either way. It's either going to be like that child's
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: having a tantrum because they're not getting a chocolate, bad parenting,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: or that mum just gave him a chocolate because they're having.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: A tantrum, bad parenting.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Like you actually can't win, unfortunately, when people have that lens,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: if they don't have a curious.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: And compassionate lens. And so it's really hard, but.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I think– being able to mute that out as best
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you can and going, what do I need in this moment?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: What does my child need? And given my choice of options,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to pick one right now. And
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: you can justify it either way, right?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think mums care more about what other
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: mums think than other dads?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, 100%.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But I also believe that that comes from a very
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: real place because I think that society places this expectation
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: on mothers way more than they do on dads as well, right?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: A dad can be a dad and go to work
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: and see his mates and do all that. A mum,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: it's almost like scrutinised for all her decisions. And did
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: she pick that career for her children?
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And did she, like, there's just so much more that's loaded, right,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: compared to males.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny too is when men say, and
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: even I cringed, I've heard this a few times where
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: men will say, oh, yeah, my wife's whatever tonight. I'm babysitting.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, what? What do you mean you're babysitting?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You mean you're parenting? I mean, they're your kids.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I think that we can learn something from the way
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that males move through the world with this because a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: lot of moms will be like, You know, especially when
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: they come to therapy, like he can just go and
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: work out and he doesn't care that he's been, you know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: at work all day.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, he'll go.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: With his mates on the weekend and he doesn't care
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, we've been kind of waiting
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: all week to spend time with him. And you think
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: about how present guys can be with this. So they're
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: not constantly scrutinizing, right, the identity of a dad. They're like,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I'm at work, I'm at work. And I'm playing with
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: my kids and play with my kids. And then I
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: want to go see my mates. So I go see
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: my mates and then I want to work out.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: So I do that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: There's no like, does this make me a bad dad
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: versus moms constantly do this when they're working out, right?
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: They're not thinking, okay, I need to get my body strong.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I should be able to feel good in my body.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, but it's taking away from my child. And,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: but I've been at work all the time and my
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: child doesn't want me to go. Like there's so much
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: more stories with that. So I think if we look
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: at you know, in that way, the way that males
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: do it, that compartmentalization almost, or not seeing everything as
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: reflections of their identity. They kind of just create this
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: life that feels good to them because it's got all
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: their values in it. This is why dads can be
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: more playful than moms. And a lot of moms say
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that to me, why are they so great with playing?
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: They can just come in and they swoop in and
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: they play. And my child just like loves being with them.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Why not me?
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: It's because we have the weight of the world on
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: our shoulders. We're constantly stressed at trying to do it all,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: all the time, the mental load. And so I think
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: if we can learn anything from that example, it's kind
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: of going, okay, like we kind of need to take
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: the pressure off because we want to enjoy life ourselves
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: with our kids in general. And there's something that's stopping
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: us from that. Right. And we can't help society, but
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: we can help how we interpret this.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Now, this is a very broad, general question. generic question
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and no everyone it's not specific to individuals but what
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: could most blokes or most dads we're talking about with
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: young kids what could they do better like what's something
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that they could do better and we're not trying to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: throw anyone under the bus or make people feel bad
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: but i go i'm listening to this i'm 40 i've
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: got three kids and my kids are aged between 5
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and 15 um And now I'm thinking, yeah, this actually
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: makes sense. How do I, what could I do better
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: if I'm a general average bloke?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I think see themselves as more than a provider. A
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: lot of males see their value as, okay, it's what
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I can give to the kids, right?
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I can pay for this.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I can take them, you know, like these experiences, like
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: give them, you know, get the childhood that I didn't have,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: all the financial resources. I think for them to see,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: and they're kind of like, oh, my wife does the
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: emotional stuff better.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I think what they could do is.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Really own who they are, their stories, and share that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: with their kids, share the journey, share the imperfection, share
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the messiness, share that they're still figuring it out.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: As a male, what do they struggle with?
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Obviously in age-appropriate ways, but not feel like they have
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to come across as perfect, kind of drop the mask
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: there and actually start to build this emotional connection with
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: their child that their child gets to know the real them.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Because as we were saying about the on pedestals, kids
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: see their parents on pedestals.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Too because parents don't share the struggles.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: They don't share that they're kind of healing from things
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: that have happened with them and they don't want.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: To put this burden on their child.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: And it's not so much the burden on the child
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: because you're not giving the child responsibility to fix it.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: What you're trying to say is I'm still figuring out
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: things too. Like I haven't got it perfect either. Like
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: we're all figuring out things and this is kind of
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: what my challenge is. This is what my goal is.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm working towards. And when they see that,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: they realize that um, it's actually okay to be imperfect
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: and messy. So when they go through their challenges, right, they'll,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: they'll have someone that they can actually talk to about it.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Do women get put under more pressure, um, you know,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: unconsciously or consciously maybe through society and through others, um,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Or do they put themselves under more pressure or a
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: bit of both?
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's both.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: It's definitely both elements, right?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: There's a society and you can very much see that
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: in the way that, you know, the comments that people
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: make or the expectations that people have.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: But then in the quiet... space of your own house
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: you will see.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: That critical self-talk running and that's obviously whether we've internalized
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: that from other people parents society but it's still running
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: in our heads and this is a bit that we
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: can change rewriting that story so I think there's two
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: elements to that and there's bits that we can't change
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: about it there's bits that we can and I think
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: it's important we rewrite that.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Do you think like maybe I'm wrong on this but
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: it feels to me like women are more critical of
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: each other than blokes are. Like if a bloke doesn't
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: like someone, he'll pretty much just go, you know, I
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: don't like you, fuck off or whatever. But it seems
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: like because I don't know. I don't know why actually,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: but maybe because I think being a mum is such
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a hard job and I'm not saying that to attract fans.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Like I just think it's such a hard job, right? Um,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: but I feel also one of the things that women
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: judge each other on, I'm saying this, okay, I've got
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: something in my head that I'm not saying. And what
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: it is, is last week I was sitting at where
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I normally have coffee and a group of ladies turned up,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: they pushed two tables together and there was just six ladies.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And they were literally, my elbow was, you know, like,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: 20 centimeters from the elbow of the next lady next
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: neck you know so i could hear every single word
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: um and yeah just they were hard on other ladies
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: i mean the stuff that they were saying i'm like
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: oh my god like not nice and just just picking
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: apart one person then another then another i'm like God,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm not sitting in, I'm glad I'm not
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the people they're talking about.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's so interesting, right?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Because I think a lot of people, a lot of moms,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: if they're really sat with that, right? Because they still
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: think it's about the other. They're like, well, it's because
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: these people are doing these things, right? Which is why
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about it. But if they're really sat with that,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of women, it's normalized to be in competition
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: with other women, right? they actually think that how they
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: are as a parent is based on how other people
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: are doing. And so that's why they're running them down, right?
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: How their relationship is, isn't how they feel.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: In it and their partner.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: It's, well, how is this person in their marriage and
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: this person and that person? So they're constantly judging themselves
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: on the external with other people versus themselves. And when
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: they do that, I think it's actually quite normalized to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: growing up. They witness their mom do that, right? Catching
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: up with other moms, gossiping about other moms. And so
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: for them, they're again normalized so then they continue to
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: run those patterns when they're an adult and they're a
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: mom so they don't actually get in connection with how
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: am I feeling in this.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: What do I actually really want um.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: You know am I working towards my own goals like
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: do I actually have something to talk about in my
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: life that I'm excited about you know am I putting
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the energy back into me um and I think when
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you really, like it's really triggering for obviously a woman
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to sit with that and going, why am I running
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: this down?
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: And you'll often find patterns.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Like I said, if you're constantly being critical of other
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: people's relationship, there's something about your relationship that doesn't feel great.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: If you're constantly critical of other people's looks, you're not
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: feeling good within yourself about how you look. If you're
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: constantly criticizing other people's parenting, there's something about your own
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: parenting that you're struggling here and you're just not wanting
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: to look at.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: So, I think it could teach us a lot about ourselves.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: When we sit with those patterns, but also, I mean,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: putting that energy back into our own lives is going
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: to really like, I mean, that ultimately benefits us and
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: our children, right? Running other women down, don't get us anywhere.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Like it actually doesn't.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Cause that's probably, if we're looking at them in that way,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: we're looking at ourselves in that way. Like this lens
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: is going to run through other things in our lives
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: and that's not helping us at all. Um, I honestly
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: noticed a difference between women that are going after their
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: dreams and their goals and they're holding themselves accountable to that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: And they're actually genuinely happy with their life. And even
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: if they're not, they know that they're responsible for their
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: lives and they're doing things to get there. Talk about
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: people less. And when they do, they're always like looking
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: at the compassion side, like maybe something else is going on.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not seeing a right.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you notice, like, have you noticed that pattern?
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've, like I sometimes don't say what I
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: think on here. I try to say, but then I
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: just think, I don't know that I can say that
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in a way that makes me that where people will
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: just go, Oh, like, you know, you're going to get
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: thrown under the bus, but yeah.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: That's always the case when you stand for something, right?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: If you keep saying neutral things and you're right, no
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: one's going to say anything.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And look, by the way, I've, A million men that
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I've met are assholes, and I'm sure I'm an asshole
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: at times. So we're not going men are great, women
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: are not so much, or vice versa. It's just human behavior.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And I also, it's like I said before, women are
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: so much better at certain things than men. And that's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: okay too. That's not a judgment for me. That's an observation.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: It's like I just see it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, and I see it too as well. I
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: did like a post the other week. It was about
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: like how to not be bitter in motherhood because I'm
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: like I see so many women that are bitter when
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: they get older and their kids are older and it's
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: like how do we acknowledge this, that there's a sense
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: of bitterness that is coming out for us women and
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: what leads to that or what builds that up?
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: As I sat, yeah, as I sat listening to this
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: table of ladies, I'm thinking– Like I didn't, obviously nobody
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: knows who they are, so I'm not running an individual down.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: And even then, it's like they seemed like happy enough
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and nice enough, right? But I'm like, if people could
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: hear what I'm hearing, and then I just said it,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I just said what I'm hearing, people would one, not
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: believe me, or two, they'd say I was making it
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: up or embellishing or trying to make people look bad.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my God, I couldn't say enough that
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you would understand what is going on and the names
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that people were calling people. And I'm like, oh yeah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: And not that that's, I don't know. I don't know.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily that we need to dig too deep into that,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: but You know, I think men do a version of
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that but in a different way. But I just, I personally.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: It's habit, right?
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's things that we've been conditioned. We've seen women bond
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: through doing that. Like, you know, again, this starts in childhood, right?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: We'd see our own.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Mums bond with other women by putting other women down.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: And so then what do we do?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: You know, we create friendships where it's like, again, talking
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: about other people and bonding over gossiping.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: But I think it's good that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: You're raising this pattern because it is okay to be
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: able to sit back and be like, oh, do.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I do this?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Like, is this something that is familiar for me? Like,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I would hope that women, you know, that are listening
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: and it's not, again, to run themselves down, but to
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, is this how I want to be? Like,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: have I noticed myself get into this familiar pattern? And
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: what would I want to be spending more of my
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: time and energy on? Like, am I worrying about things
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: that really don't impact me? Like, if you think about
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: how much time we, again, critique other people's relationships or
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: lives or what they're doing and how they're not a
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: great mum, it's like, is this really helping us be
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: the mum that we want to be? Is this helping
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: us be the woman that we want to be? Because
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: it's probably not.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Have you... Okay, I'm going to start and then I
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: want to hear what you have. But, like, there's been
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: things that I've, like, in this whole space of trying to, one,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: not beat yourself up, but, two, just recognising things that
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I do that are probably not good, you know, for
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: others or for me, just like self-awareness in social settings
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: and or interpersonal interactions at the very least, not so
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: much a social setting where there's 20 people there, but,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you know, just that whole thing of actually being truly
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: present rather than just being at the table. Like, because
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I could be sitting in front of somebody and looking
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: like I'm involved, but I'm not really. Like my mind
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: is totally somewhere else. And if I'm being really honest
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and hard on myself but truthful, not really giving a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: fuck about the conversation, right, while kind of looking like
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I am. But acknowledging that where, you know, there are
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: some conversations or even some people where you're like, I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: don't know why, I'm just not that interested. And it's
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: not a conscious choice. I'm like, I'm just not that
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: interested in you. all this conversation. I know that makes
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: me seem like a bad person. Maybe I am, but
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: that is literally just how I feel. But then as I,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: as I hopefully continue to evolve, realizing that, especially when
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I started to do a lot more coaching one-on-one or what,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you know, view almost therapy, like same thing, talking for
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: an hour with people, kind of same, different, but Yeah,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: being able to put aside all of my shit and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: be fully present and fully focused and fully emotionally bought
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: into the moment. Yeah, that took me a while. that
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: took me a while.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And even what you're saying there about like, say
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: not being interested, like, I think it's, it's so different
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: because there's like professional and personal things, right? Like when
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: you're a professional, you're like, okay, this is, this is
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: like for you coaching thing or for me, it's like,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: this is a therapy thing. So I can be very
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: present because I'm like, I've got a clear objective here, right?
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Like I am the therapist, you are the client, this
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: is what we're doing. in our personal lives, you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: you saying that around the, like not being interested, I
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: think this is good that you are connected with yourself
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: because how many people, and I know women do this,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: put on masks and, and constantly feel like they have
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: to fake it.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: And not being connected to actually don't like this is
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: this friendship. It doesn't really feel aligned or I'm really
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: not enjoying this. So I don't want to be spending
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: my time doing with this anymore. Like, and actually then
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: putting the energy into things that they want to be doing. So,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's parts of us that we should
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: really like honor that and not feel like we have
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: to like feel bad about, you know, not wanting to
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: spend our time certain ways or not being as interested
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: in things that we feel like we have to.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we, I know I did this when
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I was younger, like we want social connection and attention
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and belonging so much that we look for it in
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the wrong place. You know, we look for it from
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: people who actually don't even care about us or like
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: us that much. I did that when I was young
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: because I just felt like a bit of a social
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: fuck-up and reject, whereas I just wanted to be in
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: a group.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we kind of like wait for people to
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: pick us versus would we pick them? Like if we
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: were the choosers, right, are they someone that we would
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: choose to be in our circle rather than kind of
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: just wanting to be chosen?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. that's a good question oh that's a good point
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: it's like yeah i think yeah and that that whole
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: kind of you know be you like do you and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: then just see who sticks around it makes sense but
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: for some people it doesn't it it theoretically it's good
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: just be authentic live your purpose live your life blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But sometimes for some people that equals isolation and loneliness
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and disconnection. So it's hard to be that where, yeah,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want to compromise myself or I don't want
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: to join this club where I don't actually believe everything
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: that they preach or teach or stand for or represent,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: but it's better than being alone. So here I am. Yeah.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: And isn't that always in the hard balance there?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Like you said, it's like, okay, I want to be
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: authentic and I want to like find people aligned, but
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: then there are going to be parts where there are
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: bits that align, but potentially bits that aren't. And there's
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: maybe elements of compromise. How do we do that though?
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: It's like a relationship.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: A lot of people feel like it's better to.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Be alone because they're like, I just can't seem to,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: you know, find someone as suited. And then there's other
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: people that are like, okay, there's this element of compromise,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: but where is aligned to that?
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: You know? So I think it's, there's no like easy
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: answer to that. That's really tough.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if any group does, I'm not talking
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: about religion necessarily. It could be political. It could be
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: a social group. It could be a million. But if
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you have to believe a certain thing, agree to a
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: certain doctrine, behave a certain way, say the same things
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: as everyone else in the group, you can't question, you
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: can't push back, you can't be different. And that is
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of groups where it's really, it's the enormity
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: of conformity, where to belong in this group, you need
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to talk and think and be and behave and live
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: like the rest of us. Otherwise, you can't be in
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: this group. So you can't be you, unless you're a
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: clone of the other million in the group or whatever,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: which you're not, then you can't actually be authentically you.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: And like you said, though, some people would prefer to
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: be who they need to be to be able to
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: get acceptance to that group because that feels better. And
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: other people, that would feel suffocating and they're like, I
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: would actually prefer to be alone than to be part
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: of that group where I can't be me.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: So when we start our cult, Sam, we'll just have
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: to let everyone in.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just be like minimal rules.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll just do what we can. I apologise for
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the coughing that may or may not have been edited.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Out, everyone.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, it's a– I was going to say it's
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: a snot fest over here, but I would never say that. Sam,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it's always good to hang out. Thank you so much
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: for your time.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you. It was a great chat.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Hopefully next time we connect my brain will be operating
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: at nine and a half, not four and a half
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: like today.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I couldn't tell. It was great.