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Mary Valloni: Defeating a Scarcity Mindset & Living in Abundance · The Daily Writer

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Rider.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each weekday we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great rider creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers and teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailyriderlife.com.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you've listened to this podcast for any length of time, you know that we talk a lot about topics other than writing, but of course they're all related to writing.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And even though this is a writing podcast, writing success is not just about writing.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's also about mindset, habits, and so many other things that can help create success in your writing, your business, and your life.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I am super excited to be joined on this episode by my friend Mary Vellone, who is here to help us improve our mindset and develop a greater sense of abundance.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that is such a critical element of our writing because without the proper mindset, we'll always be limited by our own perception of what is possible.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mary is a fundraising coach and consultant who helps leaders with great causes raise more money with less pain.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's raised millions of dollars through her work as the development director of the American Cancer Society, the ALS Association, and the Special Olympics.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now she teaches and trains individuals and organizations, both big and small, how to fundraise with more freedom and less burnout.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: In this conversation on today's episode, we dive into the reasons behind the scarcity mindset and how we can begin developing a more abundant mindset.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to tell you, this is an absolutely critical topic because if we're going to have more and accomplish more, we first have to be more, and that begins with the kind of mindset that we have.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive into the conversation, I want to remind you to check out two excellent resources from Mary.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: The first is her book, Fundraising Freedom.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't want you to dismiss this book just because you might not work for a ministry organization or for a nonprofit.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is a stellar book on business and mindset, and I think it's really an essential resource for any business person, no matter what your industry or niche.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: The second resource is the fully funded podcast, which Mary hosts with the amazing Mike Kim.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mike is a marketer and author, and these two work together on this podcast to help missionaries, ministry leaders, campus ministers, and church planters grow their donor base and raise more financial support.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that is a podcast that is, of course, geared toward those audiences.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: However, you're going to learn a lot about marketing, business, mindset, and so much more from that show.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure and check it out.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one more thing before we dive into this interview, I just want to mention this conversation is really special to me because Mary is from the St.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Louis area where I live as well.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not often that I get to interview somebody who's actually from here in the St.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Louis area.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a ton of fun.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, with that said, let's get right to the conversation with the amazing Mary Vallone.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mary, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is so good to have you on the show.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: We um got introduced a short while back, and uh here we are.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great to have you on the show.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's exciting to have a conversation today.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So before I hit record, I was just um, of course, the audience wouldn't know this, but I was we were talking about how much I love your book, fundraising freedom, because not only is it a well-structured book and well-written book, it's also really applicable to writers, even though the book is not about writing uh necessarily.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many good things in there about mindset, vision, purpose, about how to run an organization and all those kinds of things.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to dive into some of those things today.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing I want to start out with is this idea of a scarcity mindset.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever I was just looking, looking through your book and thinking, what are some things that that we could talk about in and reviewing your some of your recent podcast episodes?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: That one really stood out to me because that's something that a lot of creative types really, really wrestle with.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So in your work with fundraising specifically, but then also in in business in general, why do we develop a scarcity mindset?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: What is behind that?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that a lot of us we hit a ceiling, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we have a goal, we, you know, ideally are working towards the goal, and then we get close to it, and then all of a sudden we start to freak out because we're like, oh shoot, what happens after the goal is accomplished?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then we've got to then set another goal, or we've got, you know, like we've hit the ceiling on it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you almost have to kind of regroup and come back together on it and then and then set another goal and move forward.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that we just no matter where we are in life, that we're always gonna come up against that ceiling or that, you know, kind of just that scarcity mindset where you're like, hey, I'm kind of comfortable in this space, and now I'm being stretched to move into another space that's just, yeah, it's just uncomfortable.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, and you know, I work in the nonprofit space and you know, I I often tell my nonprofit clients that, you know, already we step into this space where it's called not for profit.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, this mindset of we're not even raising, we're not even trying to make a profit, and which is totally a lie because we absolutely are trying to make a profit.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that the profit is all coming back into our causes and doing more good for our communities and our world, you know.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, so it's it's just a shift in the language that we use, but especially with yeah, creative types.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the intention is to put something out into the world that, you know, I mean, entertains, it impacts people's lives, it, you know, makes them think differently or look at the world in a different way.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times there's really an altruistic backing behind that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're we're trying to be good people, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you think about having to stretch yourself, and maybe it's around money, maybe it's around, you know, just your skill set or you know, just being comfortable in stepping out into a bigger platform, we tend to hold ourselves back because we're like, oh, it's safe and comfortable here.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we really have to stretch out into that next space that we're called, called to step out into.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you're an author.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Your book came out, was it 2017, 2018?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: 2017.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some things that you have seen, particularly with other authors, around this idea of scarcity?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is it sometimes we perceive there's a lack of opportunities, there's a lack of prospective readers, there's a lack of interest.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like so much of book marketing these days is driven by this idea that there is a lack of something.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got to push really hard, we've got to do all the PR and the marketing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like we're we're terrified that nobody's gonna read or buy our book.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so we make these gigantic pushes.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, marketing is a great thing.
• 7:10
  unknown: Sure.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your business partners with Mike Kim.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he's a marketing genius, and I love all his stuff.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it is there something in our in our minds as writers that we really have to shift around this idea of of scarcity so that we can be better, better marketers and and get our message out in a better way.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, when I first wrote my book um and I was working on it, I had shared with you earlier that I, you know, I didn't have a platform, I didn't have a whole, you know, um just slew of content that I had created.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a blogger.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I didn't have all that stuff.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was really just starting from scratch on, hey, just getting my name out there, getting my book in front of people, letting people even know that I'm an author or I'm a thought leader, you know, in the in the nonprofit fundraising space.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think sometimes we we expect that um, you know, the people are gonna come flooding in or that they're gonna, everybody's gonna want what you have.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I just always took the perspective that I was learning and that my book was a tool in my tool belt.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like it was just ammunition to help the people that I wanted to serve.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was, you know, at first I was thinking, oh, I'm only only gonna write one book and now I'm like working on book two and I already have book three in the process, you know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, so I think that once you kind of get the bug, you start, you know, seeing that it's like, oh, this is a body of work and this is something that, you know, I want to leave a legacy uh behind.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so the marketing to me has become, you know, less overwhelming, less of a, you know, a pressure on me.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of like, hey, I want to have conversations with people like you.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get out there and tell people about the the content that's inside of my book because I know that it's helped a ton of nonprofits and helped a lot of people really overcome that fear of fundraising.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so I, I mean, I feel like I'm just always marketing.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always talking to people about what I do and and how I help people.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just, I don't know, I've kind of just released the pressure of, oh, it has to be a bestseller or it has to be, you know, I have to sell a bazillion copies.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh somebody somebody asked me not that long ago about, you know, oh, did your did your book, you know, like I I don't think that they meant to say it in a way like, did it make you rich?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like, but I mean, like, are you making a lot of money off of your book?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and my whole thing was is that I'm like, my book itself is never gonna make me rich.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I just, just the kind of book that I wrote.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I just never, I knew that it was not gonna be like, oh, a Wall Street Journal.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, that's not the kind of book I was writing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but this book has opened up so many doors for me.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned my business partner Mike.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only reason why we're partnering together.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like that book opened up the door for a conversation.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was speaking at a conference.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I walked up to him, had my book in hand, and said, Hey, nice to meet you.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a copy of my book.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at it and said, Oh, hey, I know who you are.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just like one of those things where my book like already had kind of gone before me.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I have clients who take pictures of my book on airplanes and traveling all over the world.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I work with a lot of missionaries and ministry leaders, and you know, they're they're, you know, it's just it's been fun.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, so I think that on the marketing side, I just, you know, for us to kind of like release a little bit of that pressure and that stress around it and start really looking at hey, how can we open up doors, use this book to get in front of us so that we can actually help the the group of people that we really want to serve.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the world that I have come from, and that and that's that's really great, by the way.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to come back to this idea of releasing the pressure of being a bestseller in just a minute.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I want to I want to toss out there now is, and I'm not sure how much I've shared kind of my story with you, but I come from the worlds of pastoral ministry.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was a worship leader in my 20s, which was, you know, just like three years ago.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just kidding.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's been way more than three, but I'm I'm gonna say that on the podcast just in case.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, because nobody can see you.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody can see me, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to be a worship pastor, and then I was a college professor at a uh small Christian college in here in St.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Louis for 17 years, just left that position a few months ago.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it has really been a struggle for me just to be really transparent to to overcome that scarcity mentality, because when you're in like the nonprofit world, many times, particularly in a a Christian organization or a ministry organization or church, so much that it what is drilled into your head is a poverty mindset that that it's wrong for you to to you know make more than like a real base level salary, it's wrong for you to drive a decent car, it's wrong to do all these things.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And in your work with people in those settings specifically, because some of our listeners are in those settings or have come out of those settings.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: What are some ways that that people can overcome that poverty or that scarcity mindset if you're coming from those kind of nonprofit or ministry or church uh situations?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I I think that it's really important that you surround yourself with people who don't think that way.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know, I that is one of those things where, you know, when Mike and I partnered together, we started a program called Fully Funded Academy.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And one of our big things was creating a community of ministry leaders where it was like you could actually be around other people who wanted to be fully funded.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like they they wanted every dollar that they needed to do their ministry well to come in.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, a lot of them come in with all those same insecurities, and you know, they go and speak at a church or they go and talk to a pastor and they're like, Oh, well, you're you're single, you're a single female.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to live on you can have a roommate, you can live with your parents, you know, it's like, no, this is this is not okay for a grown woman in her 40s or 50s to be living with her parents or to be having a roommate, you know, or whatever the circumstances.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, other people were putting these pressures on, you know, the people that we serve.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and obviously that poverty mindset has just, I say it's an epidemic in the ministry space.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and I was actually just reading scripture this morning about, you know, just just in general, how it's like we shouldn't never have to, you know, beg or you know, plead for those dollars.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't have to make people feel uncomfortable.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, I'm like, we all should aspire for our daily bread.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we should all aspire to have our daily needs met.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and I I've fought this so much just because we are the ones that back to you know, setting that ceiling.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we are the ones that tell ourselves, oh, well, this is good enough.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: We can live on less, or I can have a roommate, or I can do, you know, and you start making excuses and shifting things.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, enough is enough.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: We believe in the God of the universe, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we believe in the guy who, you know, owns everything, can wake up anybody in the middle of the night, can cause them, you know, to shift their thinking in two seconds.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we think that, oh, we got this, we'll just live on less.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, we'll make excuses.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, I just have gotten, you know, to a point in my life where I've spent a lot of time just surrounding myself with people who are, who have, you know, they they stopped believing that lie.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's definitely a lie that has just crept into our, you know, into so many people of faith.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of those things that just breaks my heart because I was like, oh my gosh, like every dollar is waiting for you, you know.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I wrote my book, I wanted to create, you know, a really a step-by-step process so that it was like, okay, this is not about emotion, it's like factual information.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we can stop worrying about, oh, what are other people gonna think, or how am I gonna be perceived?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, enough with all of that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just follow the process.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how much do you need to do the work that you need to do?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: How you know, you sitting down and saying, okay, how much does it cost to live in the community that I live in, to, you know, provide food on the table and take care of the basic needs of my family, but also to allow myself to dream about what's next, you know, like writing that next book or putting out that next, you know, content or whatever you're trying to do.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: To me, I'm like, oh my gosh, like do not allow money to stop you from dreaming and doing what God's called you to do.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it's just it starts with community.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with, you know, really thinking bigger and having that vision really clear about what you want to do, and then working towards it and not allowing all the, oh, I don't need very much.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, nope, enough.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just I'm done with that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm done with, you know, just the excuses and all that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, in the end, you know, you sit and look at Ecclesiastes and it's like, ah, it's all a chasing after the wind, you know, it's like, doesn't even really even matter, anyways.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and the whole thing is is that, you know, thankfully, just you know, like I'm I'm getting ready to have a a baby in the next couple months.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, I want everything for this kid, you know.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want everything.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, if you want to drive a Mercedes, drive a Mercedes.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to, you know, travel the world, travel the world, you know, like I just think that we have to get to back to a place of dreaming and aspiring for the stuff that we maybe thought about as little kids and have let go over time because oh, I can't afford that or whatever.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's you know, that's just a lie that we've told ourselves over the years.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's time to, yeah, be a kid again, I guess.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's such a by the way we we can stop there because like you've said everything that needs to be said about it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I feel like we should have an altar call or something.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Come on out.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I need to repent.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, it's just the the scripture that I lean on to is the like, you know, not having poverty and not having riches.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I do I do battle the the term rich that it's like, oh, I want to be rich.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, you know, if you look at the definite, you know, it's like, yeah, I want to be rich, I guess, like rich in love, spiritually, emotionally, financially, like the whole thing.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I well-rounded richness.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I actually just want I I want that daily, I just everything taken care of where it's like I I don't need to have too much, and I, but I definitely don't want too little.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all rich.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: In the US, if you live in the US, you know, there's a very good chance you are already rich by the the definition of the world standards.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Financially, yes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but on the other end, I think we've got some work to do.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, we we absolutely do.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I think that sometimes, you know, as Americans, you know, we'll go into these countries and you know, act like we've got all the solutions to the problem.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, we might have the financial solution, but they actually have a lot of that spiritual solution and they have the the emotional solution, relation, you know, family relationships, exactly, joy, happiness.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like for us, I know that we as Americans, we do, we do fixate on financial wealth so much, especially when we talk about poverty and scarcity stuff.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I really think it comes to looking at all areas of our lives and and really looking, are we living a rich, you know, like an abundant life in all areas of our lives?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, ultimately the financial side, I you know, I tell every one of my clients, I'm like, money is the least exciting thing about all of us.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we all have it, kids have it, homeless people have it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: We all have it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just some have more, some have less.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we give a lot of power to people who have money.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm like, that is actually the least exciting thing about any of those people.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as you and I spend time with people who've done really well, whether it's in the writing space or consulting, coaching, whatever this online space that we work in, they, you know, some of them are really amazing and great, and some are really empty.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's, you know, they might have a lot of money, but it's just not the most exciting part of who they are.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say, let's focus on the other parts.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the statistic is, but the there's some no there's some amount of income, uh, and I'm sure you've heard this before too, where 75,000.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's oh, you I didn't I didn't even have to say it.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You knew what I was going for.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, 75,000 is the number where like happiness peaks with your finances.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're not gonna be more happy, you know, if you have more than 75,000.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the average in the United States, anyways.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that is kind of mind-blowing because it's like, well, yeah, when your basic needs are not being met, that does create a lot of stress and strain on your relationships and on your family and everything.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, there is a happiness quotient when it comes to how much finances you have.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then yeah, after you reach that, and you know, I've I've had some really, you know, great financial years in the past few years.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I've been running my business now for seven years, and um, and I've been able to make that shift from fundraising to financial, you know, like raising raising money for my business.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, but it's it's really been interesting to me because I'm like, it's not, yeah, not great.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, it's you're still the same person.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're still, you know, yeah, you can afford other things and you can help more people, and that's all so great to aspire to.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the the whole thing is is that if you're looking for something like you're trying to fill a hole in your soul with finances, it's just good, it's not, it's not there.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, but but the whole deal is we all have to figure that out for ourselves, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: We all we all have to to get there and then kind of have that come to Jesus moment and figure out, okay, what is this all about, really?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard it said that money amplifies who you are.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think that's true.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're if you're giving a generous person or a joyful person, it's gonna bring more of those character qualities into the world because you're because money just gives you options and opportunities and so forth.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But but if you're like a uh greedy, irritable, cranky, nasty kind of a person, then more money is just gonna give you more opportunities to spread your hatred and your crankiness to to more people.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, which is why we need more people who are.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are really, really good people who love the Lord and who, you know, are generous and kind.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: We need more of them to have more money.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like ultimately that means that yeah, more, you know, I I just feel like the nonprofit sector that I work in, oh, they would be taken care of if more money landed in the hands of our, you know, of just people who are who are generous and kind and good uh versus, you know, some of some of our maybe some of the others that you know they never well, and and I I really I do not love when people point fingers at the like wealthiest people in the world because I was like, they honestly didn't aspire for wealth.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: They they aspired to create things, you know.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So just back to this creative stuff.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at an Elon Musk or uh, you know, uh Jeff Bezos or any of those guys, I'm like, they weren't as I, you know, to my knowledge, were not looking to become rich.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were creating stuff, and it just so happened that the industries that they work in made them a lot of money.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, so there was actually a tweet that Elon Musk um put out, uh, it was probably about a year or so ago, and he made some comment about if anybody could help him figure out how to give his money away, you know, let him know.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just, you know, as a nonprofit leader, I was like, uh, hello, you know, but I don't think that people realize how hard it is.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a full-time job to give your money away when you're that wealthy, you know.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, it's not an easy task.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you don't want to destroy an organization, you don't want to destroy, you know, a nonprofit or a ministry or whatever you're giving to.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of responsibility.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I look at Rockefeller and some of these other guys that tried to give their money away at the end of their lives, and it's like it's a lot of work.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it, anyways, that's a whole nother topic.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: But but I just I give them a lot of grace.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when people are like, I wish I was that wealthy, I'm like, yeah, more money, more problems.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just so you know.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and if you look at the people who have historically people who win large amounts of money in the lottery, yeah, how that almost always destroys their whole life.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we all think, oh, it would be so nice to to be like to have a hundred million dollars in the bank or something, but I don't think it would be.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think you would be a completely miserable, horrible every day would be this massive burden because you're dealing with all these people who now want something from you and all the responsibilities that come from having wealth and all those kinds of things.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I always say I'm like, I would never want to win the lottery, never.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because at least when you're building your wealth or you're building, you know, a business, you have the ability to gradually grow with it, you know.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about hitting those ceilings, so the scarcity mindset, you're like, okay, I hit that ceiling and I work through it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a better person, I'm wiser now.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like then you hit the next ceiling and you can prepare.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so it's so this whole idea of, oh shoot, I've hit the ceiling, it's like that's not a bad thing.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's causing you some tension and you're able to grow as a human and get better and figure out how do I work through these mindset shifts.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: But but when you get tossed that money, it's like, oh shoot, like you're not prepared, and yeah, all sorts of problems come your way at that point.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, you usually get rid of it really fast because you're uncomfortable and you want to go back to the way that life was, you know.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had to really, really work through that the last couple of years as I have gotten into ghostwriting, and you know, ghostwriting is a is a thing where you you can actually make a lot of money as a ghostwriter if you position yourself the correct way and if you write a lot of books and those kind of things.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I know a number of ghostwriters who, you know, are like in the top tier and and that kind of a thing.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember the exact moment.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I was sitting right right here.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is when I first got my uh when I got my first book contract back.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, it wasn't really that much, it was pretty low paying as far as ghostwriting goes.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I rem but for to me that was at the time a lot of money.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember getting that signed contract back.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked at my wife and I just said, My life, my life is in this moment, it has changed because I now realize I can do something bigger than I thought I could previously do.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I've I've raised my rates significantly since then, but but still, like when you get that first taste of success, then you kind of think, oh, everything is going to be great, but then you bump up against your own mindset and your own limitations, and you're like, okay, with every level, you have to kind of change your mindset about what's possible, and then you pretty quickly realize I have to grow into a bigger person to be able to handle you know more visibility or more responsibility or a book for a bigger client or whatever it is.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's not a bad thing.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's no, it's a great thing.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that a lot of times we're like, oh, the scarcity mindset, and you know, it's so awful and everything.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, but at the same time, it's like if we can actually realize that that's just gonna be a part of the journey, that we we know that, oh, once we get into that uncomfortable situation, we're like, okay, time to grow, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Time to learn something new, bring maybe a new coach into your life, or you know, figure out some way that you're gonna start to expand that thought process.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not, yeah, it's not not a bad thing.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, and that's what I was like, take those bigger checks.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm bring them on, baby.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, exactly.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And don't, yeah, don't hold yourself back because I I do think that we are our own worst enemy when we're pitching and we're, you know, in that, you know, pricing phase of having a conversation with somebody.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you need to understand that some people are just not for you and some people are, and that's okay.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have plenty of conversations with people where I'm like, I gotta give you some other resources because you're, you know, I you can't afford me, like unfortunately.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just where I'm at in my business, and you know, that's okay.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but they and they know that, so it's it's all good, but I at least I I'm not devaluing where I'm at in my journey, and exactly I've got all this experience that I bring to the table, and I know I can turn X dollars into whatever, and and same thing for you.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know that if somebody gives you that book, that they're gonna they're gonna get a great product at the end.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know 100% exactly.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: See, confidence, I love it.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did have a light bulb moment, um, just kind of speaking of mindset.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: My with my second book, I was talking to this client and prospective client, and they wanted to do the book, and I was I kind of laid out here's what the process is gonna be, but we hadn't agreed on on the pricing yet.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't in mind the idea what I wanted to charge.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: But when we got to the end of the conversation, he was like ready to go, but we hadn't agreed on the amount yet.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I was still kind of new to this at this point, and I was like, okay, how do I handle this?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Without just saying, Okay, are we gonna do this?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was trying to figure out how to gracefully broach the topic, and so I just thought this was really awkward of me.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just we got ready to end the call, and I just said, Okay, so how do you want to work like the contract?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me just to send you the contract and you send it back, or what's the best way to work this?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and so he was like, Oh, yeah, and remind me what the pricing is.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I told him, and and he was big his attitude, attitude is basically like, Yeah, whatever whatever you normally charge is fine.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait a minute.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, I suddenly realized that there are people in this world who have a lot of money and they are anxious to spend it and bless somebody.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a total light bulb moment because that was not my world at all.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought, wow, I want to be like that guy and be in a position to just be able to hire more people and to bless other people.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was like, oh my gosh, that you know, and you probably had those moments too, Mary, where your mindset is just gone, like, oh wow.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the whole universe is kind of like opened up, you know, to a different mindset.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: My most recent consulting client, I remember sitting like after I had secured the client and I was working with them, uh, I remember sitting with one of their team members and them saying, You could have put whatever price you wanted on this, they needed you so bad.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that, but that's the thing, depending on what it, you know, you're the solution to their problem.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if their problem is, you know, I gotta write that book, or if it's big enough, to raise this money for my charity, you know, it's like that you are the solution to the problem.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times they don't know how much does it cost for the solution to this problem.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in an industry or you're in a space where you're like, hey, you know, I'm I'm the only person you're talking to right now.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: There really is no competition at this point.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can throw out a pretty decent number, especially, I mean, like, but this is all going back to you knowing that you can deliver on you know, and and know that you're in the right, you know, price point for what you're offering.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, I'm not saying like throw some astronomical number out there, but at the same time, it's like I was willing to walk away.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't need that client.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when I threw out the number that I did, it was much higher than I normally would charge, but I didn't need them.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it gave me a lot of flexibility to not be in this poverty, uh, scarcity, but also desperation mode.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we often put ourselves in that desperate space where we're like, I'll take anything I can get.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna lowball the pricing.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give them, give it to them basically for free because I need to pay my bills.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we gotta like be done.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's bad news.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's bad news.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do not put yourself in that position.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know sometimes we all we all get there, but but you've got to, yeah, really position yourself to where you don't you they need you way more than you need them, and that will help a ton in your pricing.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, as we head into the home stretch, let me throw out this uh one more question here.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I want to revisit what you mentioned about releasing the pressure of being a bestseller because I've never heard that appraise before and I've never heard anybody frame it that way.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a brilliant way to approach a book launch.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, can you share a little bit more about what does that mean exactly and and how how can we balance releasing that pressure while also wanting to have a book that does sell well and gets into the hands of more readers?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do we approach those things?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that it just comes back to, you know, releasing some of those expectations, of course, is that, you know, I still did all the work.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I still, you know, pounded the pavement to get reviews on Amazon.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I my book was an Amazon number one bestseller, you know.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, like I still, you know, hit the milestones that I was looking to hit.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I was there was really no pressure on the people that I that were surrounding me.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: It really was like you get to be a part of this journey with me.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we get to launch this book and we get to help a lot of charities, a lot of nonprofits.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was back to serving, you know.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, how can I serve more people?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of what's in it for me.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously, like there's so many quotes out there, you know, Zig Ziggler, it's like help others get what they want, and in turn, you get what you want.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end, it's like I just wanted to help as many people as possible with what I was doing.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And in turn, you know, magically, I got what I wanted as well, you know.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I, but I, you know, I launched into like my pod, I my podcast, my book, my courses, like everything that I've ever done.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've always come at it with a perspective of I want to learn and I want to grow.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna put something out there that may not be the best, you know, ever because well, I'm new at it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've never written a book, I've never, you know, I had never done a podcast, you know, like so all those things I was like, I just want to learn, I want to grow.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's just a better place to live than it is trying to impress or trying to make friends, or I don't, you know, I just didn't really care.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, I'm I'm so grateful.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just never like looking back now on the last um five years, really.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, un well, four, yeah, four or five years since I started writing.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just my life has just changed so drastically.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the whole like trying to find your people.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the people who read my book, the people who listen to my podcast, I'm like, they're me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're they are like my former stuck self.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I always say.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, talk and and work with people who were in your position just a few years ago or a decade ago or whatever.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll be surprised at how you get to work with amazing people.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to ever be something that you're not.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end, you actually get way more fulfillment out of the entire experience.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is good stuff.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is really, really good stuff.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: You have you have, we we've dived into probably 10 podcast episodes worth of topics here.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because this mindset issue is so critical.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't care what level somebody gets at, we're always struggling to develop a stronger mindset, uh, a more open mindset to what to what God wants to give us and to how other people want to bless us and all the wonderful things that are out there for us.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this has been a ton of fun.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate making time to do this, Mary.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for talking on a topic that obviously is so near and dear to my heart.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the end, I'm like, my vision is all about ending the lack and scarcity mindset, but it's like ending it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, one of those things of just embracing the fact that we will always be in a season of learning and growth.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and that's okay.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like give yourself a little grace.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I mentioned to you that I'm, you know, getting ready to have a little one in a couple months, and I'm like, this is the season of grace, you know, like you never know what you're gonna be thrown into or what season you're gonna be in.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, it's like, you know, just really being able to embrace the change and to to go with it and be okay.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: That change is just gonna happen.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: My son just started on month this past Monday, his senior year of high school.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I can I can vouch for the fact that the season of grace never ends.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Whether for the parents or for the kids.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know some of my clients, they're sending their kids, you know, like either off to college or they're actually like going to go start their their career.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just so crazy to watch how they're like, I'm a wreck.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I am a mess.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm on the other side now, like haven't even met my child yet.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so I'm like, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's gonna be me in, you know, 18, 20, you know, 25 years.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I can't even imagine loving something so much that I'm gonna be that kind of a wreck.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I was like, okay, prepare myself.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it's gonna be definitely a journey.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is that's the joy of life is that things are always changing and evolving, and it'll be it'll be great.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody will be will be okay.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can people get in touch with you and find out more about your book and your services and all the cool things that you're doing?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the best place to go is just maryvillone.com and Veloni is V as Invictor, A-L-L-O-N-I.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I have most of my stuff on there.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: My book is on Amazon, Barnes Noble, all the bookstores out there.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, it's you know, like I mentioned, seven-step process to helping charities, nonprofits, but also like we talked about, business leaders who are uh looking to kind of have a step-by-step process to to um bring in the dollars they're looking to bring in.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, maryvilloni.com is the best place.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then my podcast, I've I have two podcasts that are out there, fundraising freedom um has you know about 181 episodes out there that you can listen to if you're in the nonprofit space or mindset.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I talk a lot on mindset.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also have the fully funded podcast, which is specifically for missionaries and ministry leaders who are trying to raise funds.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So those are two great places to just come hang out with me.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks again, Mary.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thanks.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a ton from Mary, and she is so inspiring and so encouraging and so positive.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is impossible not to be impacted by a conversation with her.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to pick one takeaway from this interview, it would it would be this mindset is literally everything.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Without the proper kind of mindset, you're not gonna be an effective writer, you're not going to be effective at marketing, you're not gonna be effective at fundraising or impacting people or really anything else that you want to set out to do.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: The way that you think and how you think and what you think, that literally determines everything else in your life.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this is critical for us authors to understand because so oftentimes we think of writing as being all about writing talent.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like if people have told you your whole life, oh, there's they're such a talented writer or you're so gifted.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you can be a gifted writer, but without mindset, without the proper way of thinking, you're not going to bring in all the other things that are so important for writing success, like marketing, like networking, like consistency and productivity and all those kinds of things.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Really, success in writing is all about having the right mindset and taking consistent action and doing the work.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this conversation has really helped to change my mindset, and I hope that it's opened up your mindset as well, so that we can all have more abundance for the purpose of serving other people.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been an absolute blast, and again, I want to encourage you to check out Mary's website, her book, and her podcast, all of which are really, really excellent.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So many thanks to Mary for taking the time out to be a guest on the show today.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I again I really enjoyed this conversation and it was so much fun.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll see you in the next episode.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and tasting success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join, but I can never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.