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Top 5 Motivations To Keep Podcasting · Buzzcast

• 0:00
  Alban: Do either of you know what this is?
• 0:02
  Kevin: That is a radiation meter.
• 0:03
  Alban: Uh close, this one's a CO2 meter.
• 0:06
  Kevin: How is that close?
• 0:07
  Kevin: Co2 is not close to radiation.
• 0:09
  Alban: Okay, it's similar because the same company, the exact same form factor, makes one for radiation, and so I was thinking it's close because you might've seen one and gone.
• 0:19
  Alban: Oh, I think I know what that is.
• 0:20
  Alban: Apparently, cognitive performance is drastically reduced once you get to a certain level of CO2.
• 0:27
  Alban: And so I bought one of these and it just sits on my desk and it just updates the ink display every once in a while and it lets me know what the CO2 is.
• 0:35
  Alban: When we started the pre-show, it was down in normal, healthy ranges, but I closed the window and then I closed the door and I'm already in the yellow.
• 0:46
  Alban: I'm already in the like slight cognitive decline level.
• 0:49
  Jordan: So what can you do to fix that?
• 0:51
  Alban: Open the window but you can't turn on a fan like something with better airflow.
• 0:56
  Alban: But it's creeping up.
• 0:57
  Alban: I'm in this room.
• 0:59
  Jordan: By the end of the episode, you're going to be incapacitated.
• 1:02
  Kevin: You should get one of those cans.
• 1:03
  Kevin: You know they sell them in high altitude places Jordan.
• 1:06
  Kevin: You probably have them like a rip off of the O2.
• 1:08
  Kevin: Yeah, the oxygen canisters oh yeah, yeah, they sell them in ski resorts.
• 1:12
  Kevin: All the time People get altitude sickness.
• 1:14
  Alban: Well, I think the real solution for me is just open the window every once in a while but I've always said I feel like more tired at the end of buzzcast and look at this.
• 1:23
  Alban: That's when I closed the window, it's when I closed the door.
• 1:25
  Kevin: Well, I don't know why you're recording in like a hermetically sealed environment.
• 1:29
  Alban: What do you have set up?
• 1:30
  Alban: You have a fan.
• 1:31
  Alban: You can't have a fan, Jordan will make you turn it off.
• 1:34
  Kevin: I actually do have a fan going today.
• 1:35
  Jordan: I mean, my heat kicks on.
• 1:37
  Alban: All right For a reference.
• 1:39
  Alban: We're at 1100 CO2 parts per million right now.
• 1:42
  Alban: This is the moderate.
• 1:44
  Alban: Oh, no update.
• 1:45
  Alban: Breaking news.
• 1:46
  Alban: Breaking news.
• 1:48
  Alban: We're at 1227 CO2 parts per million.
• 1:52
  Alban: It's in the yellow.
• 1:54
  Jordan: So what are the dangerous levels here?
• 1:56
  Alban: All right, jordan.
• 1:56
  Alban: All CO2 is measured in parts per million.
• 1:59
  Jordan: Okay.
• 2:00
  Alban: Below 600, essentially no negative effects.
• 2:03
  Alban: This is fresh air.
• 2:04
  Alban: This is outdoors.
• 2:05
  Alban: 600 to 1,000, possible early decreases in decision-making speed or focus.
• 2:16
  Kevin: Alban, can we push pause for a second?
• 2:16
  Kevin: Here's what you're missing.
• 2:17
  Kevin: You're reading some pretty boring stuff.
• 2:18
  Kevin: We're recording a podcast.
• 2:18
  Kevin: Your job is not to present the boring information in a boring way.
• 2:21
  Kevin: Your job is to present boring information in an exciting way.
• 2:24
  Kevin: Kevin.
• 2:25
  Alban: I would know that if I was not in the 1,000 to 2,000 range right now.
• 2:29
  Alban: Clear cognitive performance declines in high stakes tasks increased fatigue, that's what it says that's what I'm saying.
• 2:40
  Alban: All right, Take it from the top and give me some energy.
• 2:41
  Alban: How am I supposed to do that?
• 2:42
  Alban: I'm the one with decline.
• 2:43
  Alban: How am I supposed to do that?
• 2:47
  Alban: I'm the one with decline.
• 2:48
  Alban: Below 600 is where you're supposed to be.
• 2:52
  Alban: That's the outdoors.
• 2:52
  Alban: 600 to like 800 is what buildings are rated for.
• 2:54
  Alban: That's where we're supposed to be.
• 2:55
  Alban: I'm at 1,227.
• 2:56
  Alban: It says clear cognitive performance declines in high stake tasks like podcasting.
• 3:01
  Alban: Increased fatigue.
• 3:02
  Jordan: It says that on the website.
• 3:04
  Alban: It doesn't say.
• 3:04
  Alban: The podcasting 2000 is where you start getting headaches, pronounced sluggishness, potential confusion, and my numbers have gone up 500 points since we've been talking.
• 3:14
  Kevin: Yeah, I think you got a lot of problems, Alban CO2 being one, but there's more.
• 3:18
  Kevin: They're all coming for your cogs, your cognitives.
• 3:22
  Jordan: Here we go your cogs, your cognitives.
• 3:32
  Jordan: Welcome back to Buzzcast, a podcast about all things podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout.
• 3:34
  Jordan: So last episode we asked you to let us know what motivates you to keep podcasting and we had a whole bunch of responses and so we're kind of building this entire episode around all of the responses that we got and compiled them into different groupings.
• 3:49
  Jordan: We found common like threads and themes for what keeps podcasters motivated.
• 3:54
  Jordan: So the first one that we have is personal growth and skill development.
• 3:57
  Jordan: Ish from the not so breakfast show said that after 200 episodes, skill development and discipline of turning up every week is what motivates him to keep podcasting and has also helped him to advance his career and stay up to date with technology.
• 4:09
  Alban: Oh, that's cool.
• 4:09
  Alban: We got another from Alessandra from the Dom Sub Living podcast, who wrote in and said she was inspired by MKBHD's creator story and set a personal goal that she could upgrade her equipment after 100 episodes.
• 4:22
  Alban: I love this idea of holding out on upgrading gear until you hit certain milestones.
• 4:28
  Alban: I do this every time I go to Home Depot to do a project.
• 4:31
  Alban: I'm like I'm allowed to buy only one tool, or else I'm like the person who'd spend all their time like looking at new tools and new ratchet sets or something.
• 4:39
  Jordan: Yeah, and it's also setting a goal of how many episodes you've completed.
• 4:43
  Jordan: It's not like how many downloads you get.
• 4:45
  Jordan: It's not like, oh yeah, once I reach 10,000 downloads, I'm going to allow myself to do this.
• 4:48
  Jordan: It's saying like if I stick with this for 100 episodes, which I think is, like she said, inspired by MKBHD's creator journey, where he talked about how he only had like 100 subscribers for his first 100 episodes on his YouTube channel and now he's, like, one of the biggest YouTube creators in the world.
• 5:06
  Kevin: Yeah, there's some really, really good insights here.
• 5:08
  Kevin: I love the application of podcasting, for sure, but as you guys are reading these out, I'm just thinking like how many things in my life do I go out and I buy something because I feel like buying that thing is going to make me better at X, y or Z?
• 5:20
  Alban: How many pickleball paddles have you bought?
• 5:22
  Alban: I?
• 5:25
  Kevin: have like a subscription to pickleball battles, but yeah, sports equipment for sure, like you're always convinced you could buy a better game, right.
• 5:34
  Kevin: But it's certainly true in podcasting too, that in my next level of podcast, unlock is going to come with a different microphone or a different, you know, mixer or headphones or something like that, and so like I, or headphones or something like that, and so like I think that stuff should be fun.
• 5:50
  Kevin: It's like we shouldn't deny ourselves of that stuff, but I like the idea of making it like an earn out, and it doesn't have to be number of downloads or something that is, in a lot of ways, a lot of stuff is very hard to control.
• 5:58
  Kevin: Certainly, you can market your podcast, but I like the simpler metrics of just like if I get to 100 episodes, I'm going to give myself some level of reward, because that's totally within your control.
• 6:08
  Alban: You can 100% do that function, doing the show as a forcing function to get me to pay attention to what's happening with technology.
• 6:14
  Alban: I recently somebody joined the team on the YouTube side and he was like, oh, I'm really deep right now I'm going to do this live stream and talk about podcasting gear.
• 6:34
  Alban: So I'm just catching up on all the podcasting gear and I was like you know, it's really healthy to have these moments where you present on something because you know things until you have to present it and then you go.
• 6:44
  Alban: I want to go even deeper and really understand the nuance of each of these pieces of equipment and podcasting is that for me.
• 6:56
  Alban: I think it'd be easy to say I know what's going on in the podcasting industry, but every week now, getting together and doing this show and recording and reading new stories and stuff, I'm staying much more abreast of what's happening in the day-to-day updates of podcasting than I probably would, even though I work here.
• 7:11
  Alban: I'm staying much more abreast of it because we have this thing that's pushing us every week to say, hey, make sure you know what's happened in the last week because we're going to chat about it.
• 7:20
  Jordan: What you said with how there's this inward value to podcasting and the personal growth.
• 7:25
  Jordan: There's also some outward value with building connections with other people.
• 7:30
  Jordan: So one of the other threads that I kind of pulled from this is listener impact and human connection, and Sander, from the Netherlands, says that when he needs it he rereads old listener messages saying how much they've benefited from the podcast to stay motivated.
• 7:46
  Kevin: That's me for sure.
• 7:46
  Kevin: I don't know short memory guy or something, but anytime we go back and bring up some of our old reviews or old fan mail or something, it reminds me that we got it, but it's never top of mind.
• 7:59
  Kevin: I never think about it on the regular.
• 8:00
  Kevin: And so building some sort of regularity into your process of going back and reminding yourself that you are having an impact on people, that there are people who are listening to you, who are enjoying your content and, jordan, I know you love to avoid reviews at all.
• 8:14
  Jordan: Yes.
• 8:14
  Kevin: Like you do everything you can.
• 8:15
  Kevin: You don't love them, but I don't know for me and I think, Alban, you've expressed a similar sentiment Some of the earliest reviews.
• 8:21
  Kevin: I haven't thought about them in years, and so there is some joy going back once in a while and reminding yourself.
• 8:27
  Kevin: Oftentimes it doesn't you know, you just forget, and those old messages can be very motivational to help you keep going.
• 8:34
  Alban: I've talked about this before on the podcast.
• 8:37
  Alban: I'm trying to leave more comments on videos and reply to more things online that I enjoy or share more articles, and reply to more things online that I enjoy or share more articles, and most of it is like I'm trying just to be a better fan and be better at letting people know like, hey, this had an impact on me.
• 8:52
  Alban: That was positive, because there have been plenty of times we've gotten a message when we came back to YouTube.
• 8:58
  Alban: We put a lot of work into this video and we're like we really haven't been doing much on YouTube in a while.
• 9:03
  Alban: What's the reaction going to be?
• 9:05
  Alban: First comment was I'm so glad to see Buzzsprout back on YouTube more and I'm like you just validated so much work in putting together a new job description and going through all these interviews and finding the right person and onboarding and everything we put into it.
• 9:19
  Alban: Somebody left a 20 second comment that made me feel like, yes, okay, yeah, we made the right call.
• 9:25
  Alban: This feels good, yeah, and I think it's so valuable for people, for us all, to be commenting and supporting each other, and so reading those reviews and getting fan mail messages those are huge.
• 9:36
  Jordan: Yeah, and we have like a similar story from Megan of VetLife Reimagine saying that she finds purpose when listeners say they feel less alone.
• 9:44
  Jordan: And then, of course, matt from Girl Dad Nation is inspired by guest stories that really push him to be like a better father in his own life too.
• 9:53
  Jordan: So I do think that there is something to be said about receiving this feedback from your listeners, from your guests even sometimes, and just making sure that you have a folder in your email account where you put those messages so you can go back and reflect on them, fan mail, pin it to your website so that you can just always, whenever you're feeling like a little down and you're not feeling motivated, go look on your website, go read those nice messages again, because it does help so much to just remind yourself that at some point, like you did help somebody, you're probably going to help someone in the future too.
• 10:24
  Alban: Yeah, I, like you notice Matthew is also touching on that first one, the personal growth.
• 10:28
  Alban: He's connecting with his guests, but it's also pushing him to be a better father.
• 10:32
  Alban: He has a goal that is just personal I want to be a better father, I want to take care of my girls, and the guest stories are helping him reflect on what areas am I doing a great job?
• 10:45
  Alban: What areas could I grow and improve?
• 10:48
  Kevin: I do like what Matthew said.
• 10:49
  Kevin: I like the fact that, in a lot of ways, podcasting gives you an opportunity to what's the saying that people say, like you know, preaching to the choir, which is preaching to people who already believe what you believe.
• 10:59
  Kevin: But there's also like putting a message together, doing research, learning more about a topic, for you being the first audience, like the first beneficiary of that information.
• 11:08
  Kevin: And podcasting does a great job of providing a forcing mechanism, a method, like a reason to do that.
• 11:15
  Kevin: So you have some expertise, you have some interest in a particular topic, whatever you're podcasting about, and it gives you the cycle that happens oh, I'm interested in something, I want to talk about it, I'm going to have to do research on it, which I enjoy, and it makes me have a better understanding, more of an expert on whatever the topic is, and then I get to share that with other people and I get to do it again and again and again and again and again.
• 11:36
  Kevin: And so I also think that that is a lot of the reason, like, on the other side of it, if you start podcasting about a topic that you're really not highly interested in or for reasons that are like, like, a lot of people get into podcasting because they want to chase money or something like that, and it's a very hard way to earn money.
• 11:52
  Kevin: It's a and it's not as fulfilling as some of these other reasons that we get into podcasting, and so that cycle is not going to kick off in the same way.
• 11:59
  Kevin: You got to, you've got to make a living, got to make a living.
• 12:04
  Kevin: You have to earn money.
• 12:04
  Kevin: Podcasting is a tough way to do that, and so it can kind of be destructive.
• 12:06
  Kevin: But if you just like are podcasting about something that you're passionate about, or maybe something that you think you might be passionate about, and then you start learning about it and you start gaining expertise, and then you realize, oh, I'm actually understanding this stuff pretty good and I like sharing it with people, and then your passion grows and then the cycle keeps going, those are all really motivating things and we'll keep you podcasting for a long time.
• 12:22
  Alban: Yeah, I, I've got some thoughts on this that now look like they're probably going to be connected to your next one more Jordan.
• 12:28
  Jordan: That's exactly what I was going to say.
• 12:29
  Alban: Let me read some more from the listener impact and human connection.
• 12:33
  Jordan: Okay.
• 12:33
  Alban: Remy Roy from driven introvert podcast says that putting something out into the world that connects with people is gratifying and fulfilling, knowing I'm doing something and there are people out there who are feeling like, oh, this is me, this is my group, this is my community.
• 12:49
  Alban: That's important, that's valuable, it's awesome.
• 12:52
  Jordan: Yeah, and then we also this morning had Richard write in to say that success looks like making a positive impact in someone's life and knowing that he's making a difference gives him the motivation to keep going.
• 13:03
  Kevin: One of the things that we talk about a lot is that stats can be like demotivating right.
• 13:07
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Kevin: And there is another side of that coin and we don't talk about it all like probably nearly enough and that is that we have to remind ourselves as podcasters that podcasting is like an opt-in medium right.
• 13:18
  Kevin: So anybody who's listening, whether it be three people, five people, 10 people or 10,000 people, they have all opted in to listening to you, for some amount of time and again you can go look in Apple and Spotify and see how much they listen to or whatever, but they chose to listen to you.
• 13:33
  Kevin: And so while oftentimes we look at numbers in podcasting and we're like, oh, that's such a low number compared to, I don't know, expectations or perceptions or hopes and dreams or whatever, it just feels low no expectations or perceptions or hopes and dreams or whatever it just feels low.
• 13:48
  Kevin: But remember, this is opt-in.
• 13:49
  Kevin: This is not throwing up a video on YouTube.
• 13:53
  Kevin: Where YouTube is, the algorithm is going to test it and try to find an audience for it and then try to keep presenting it in front of people who it thinks that might be interested in it a little bit.
• 14:00
  Kevin: And every time it tries to present one of those things, it's going to increase your counter by one because they really want to keep you motivated to upload another video.
• 14:08
  Kevin: And there's a whole bunch of reasons why those numbers like it benefits YouTube to have make sure that you're getting bigger numbers.
• 14:13
  Kevin: None of that exists in podcasting.
• 14:15
  Kevin: It's a total opt in thing, like somebody got a recommendation from somebody to listen to your show or somebody went to some sort of podcast search engine and searched for your topic and then chose to listen to your show.
• 14:24
  Kevin: Or somebody went to some sort of podcast search engine and searched for your topic and then chose to listen to an episode.
• 14:27
  Kevin: Like based on the little title that they read, or the description, or your podcast artwork or whatever it was, something caught their attention and it wasn't forced upon them, and so the low number, even though it feels small, is still so meaningful compared to lots of other ways that you could put a message out to the world.
• 14:46
  Jordan: I think that's a really good point, because I mean, yeah, if you're on Instagram, yeah, if you put a reel out and you get 1000 views on it, like, are they meaningful views?
• 14:54
  Jordan: Did someone linger on it for a literal second before they switched to the next one?
• 14:59
  Jordan: Your views on social media might not actually even be real.
• 15:03
  Alban: Talking about stats and your ability as a listener to impact the show.
• 15:07
  Alban: I mean, everyone here is writing about someone reaches out to the show and it means a lot to me.
• 15:10
  Alban: I think I mean for 10 plus years I've been looking for what are my favorite marketing podcasts and I've listened to hundreds and the one I think is probably the best is the Ahrefs podcast hosted by Tim Solo, and I imagined it was just massive this whole time, but it's the one I like the most.
• 15:32
  Alban: And Tim posted on Twitter and was like oh, here's the five best episodes from last year from YouTube, because they do video and podcast combined.
• 15:42
  Alban: I think he said the top episode had 6,000 downloads.
• 15:45
  Alban: Slash views.
• 15:46
  Jordan: Oh, wow.
• 15:47
  Alban: And I was like, whoa, wait, that's pretty small for what I consider to be top of the top of the line, like really, really valuable.
• 15:56
  Alban: It's not like a goof around podcast and even the shows that are crushing it are not as big as you think.
• 16:04
  Alban: And if people get one to two messages a show, you have a pretty big impact on them.
• 16:10
  Alban: And so, yeah, right in, like Richard said, or like all these other people have said, let them know hey, you're having a positive impact on my life.
• 16:17
  Alban: Here's how it definitely empowers me and encourages me to go and message Tim and say, hey, I've been listening to this for a long time and I really enjoy it.
• 16:26
  Jordan: Speaking of enjoy, let's go to our third theme, and this one is fun, creativity and joy.
• 16:35
  Jordan: Yes, I love this so much.
• 16:37
  Jordan: So Michelle from new creation meditations had actually quit podcasting for a long time because she was putting too much pressure on herself, and now she's coming back with a mission to just have fun and she has rebranded her podcast to rise and rain and she has this like wild cover art to match the new vibe and she's just going into it without all that like pressure to be perfect and you know whatever else she was feeling that made her burn out on our podcast.
• 17:04
  Jordan: I actually relate to this so much, Michelle, because I have done the same to myself in the past and I remember last year, at the beginning of the year, I said this is going to be my year of fun.
• 17:15
  Jordan: I just like put my flag down, I declared it this is the year of fun, and last year was one of the best years I've had in my adult life.
• 17:22
  Jordan: So I think that there is something to be said of letting go of putting that pressure on yourself and just saying you know what, I'm gonna have fun with this, and of putting that pressure on yourself and just saying you know what?
• 17:33
  Jordan: I'm gonna have fun with this and that's that, and it just can really change your mindset.
• 17:35
  Alban: I listened to a clip from Magnus Carlsen.
• 17:37
  Alban: He's probably not the number one chess player in the world now, but he was for a really, really long time, probably the greatest chess player of all time, and he was talking about how he prepared and he's like I'm always thinking about chess because it's fun.
• 17:49
  Alban: And he's like he was a chess prodigy and then he started getting chess homework and he went back to his professor and was just like hey, I love doing the problems, I love working with you, I love the classes, I don't like homework and I'm only going to do the part of it that's fun.
• 18:04
  Alban: And so everything he was motivated by was this is fun, I'm learning more was this is fun, I'm learning more.
• 18:13
  Alban: I'm playing better chess.
• 18:14
  Alban: I'm getting better and better, and he said that in the beginning it wasn't a big deal, but over time, as he's with all of his peers who are grinding it out every day and him who's just having a blast, then that's what led him to be the greatest chess player of all time.
• 18:26
  Alban: If you're having fun, it's hard for other people to keep up.
• 18:30
  Alban: They might be able to do it for a week or two, but if you're really enjoying your work, you're going to be excited to go into the office.
• 18:37
  Alban: You're not going to be dreading, you know, sunday night.
• 18:40
  Kevin: There are certainly things in life that, whether you have fun doing them or not, they need to be done.
• 18:44
  Kevin: Oftentimes that's work and hopefully, for everybody who's listening, there's certain aspects of your job which you really enjoy, and then there's certain parts that you don't enjoy as much and there might be certain parts that you really dread, but you've got to kind of do all of it.
• 18:58
  Kevin: Hobbies, on the other hand, really shouldn't fall into that category too often, and if you're podcasting for a hobby and you're finding that there's a lot in this podcasting space that you really don't enjoy, then maybe that's a signal that something is off, and maybe what you're podcasting about, or like how regularly you're podcasting, or the amount of time and prep time that you're putting into your podcast, like beforehand or editing after.
• 19:24
  Kevin: But those are all things that you can control and you can make changes to the process to bring the fun back.
• 19:29
  Kevin: This is a very common thing in sports.
• 19:31
  Kevin: Anybody who does any sort of sport or athletics as a hobby is you go from amateur where it's just fun.
• 19:38
  Kevin: I'm just going out and I'm taking up jogging or I'm hiking or I'm swimming or whatever and then all of a sudden, hey, I'm starting to get pretty good, and now I'm going to compete with people, and now you start to feel like this pressure and I have to train today because I have a race coming up in two weeks and I don't really feel like training today.
• 19:54
  Kevin: But back when it was fun, if you didn't feel like training, you didn't train, and if you did feel like training, you did train because it was all for fun.
• 19:59
  Kevin: I don't know if there's a word for something like this, but, like, as you get better, pressures mount, and most of them are internal.
• 20:06
  Kevin: Sometimes there's, you know, you start to have fans and fans have certain expectations.
• 20:11
  Kevin: So some of it is external, but the majority of it is usually internal motivations of I want to get to the next level, and in order to do that, I have to do stuff that I don't enjoy as much as I used to.
• 20:23
  Kevin: You know, whether it be practicing or drilling, or buying more equipment or setting up new equipment or learning this new technical thing or doing something, and it can really rob you of just being able to have fun, and so I'm wondering how to make it practical.
• 20:37
  Kevin: Are there certain things that we can do to relieve pressure If we're starting to feel some of the symptoms or see some of the signs of it's not as fun as it used to be, pay attention to that and then figure out, like, can I do something?
• 20:45
  Kevin: Just to sort of experiment, to see if I can bring more joy back to something that I used to really enjoy?
• 20:50
  Kevin: So if you're in a place like that with your podcast recording or editing or whatever, can you do something different?
• 20:56
  Kevin: So I have this podcast episode coming up in a couple of weeks.
• 21:00
  Kevin: I'm kind of dreading it because I don't feel prepared for this topic or whatever.
• 21:03
  Kevin: Maybe change the topic or maybe just say I'm going to find a guest I don't usually have guests on my show, but I'm going to bring.
• 21:09
  Kevin: Instead of me doing all the research and trying to be the expert, I'm going to try to find an expert.
• 21:12
  Kevin: Maybe that'll be fun.
• 21:13
  Kevin: I don't know.
• 21:14
  Kevin: Whatever experiments you can come up with, but bring creativity, open your mind and try something new.
• 21:19
  Kevin: But give yourself the freedom to just be like.
• 21:22
  Kevin: I want to pay attention to anything that is not as fun as it used to be and I want to, course, correct for that early, before it robs me of this thing that used to bring me a lot of life.
• 21:31
  Kevin: It used to bring me a lot of joy and now I don't like it anymore, like that's burnout.
• 21:34
  Kevin: That's what we want to prevent, and the sooner you can catch that and course correct for it, the better chance you have of being able to stay engaged long-term with something that you really enjoy.
• 21:44
  Alban: Okay.
• 21:44
  Alban: So example of that in my life was with running.
• 21:47
  Alban: I just noticed I was not enjoying it as much, didn't really notice why.
• 21:51
  Alban: And yesterday I'm going out for a run and I'm grabbing my Apple watch to put it on and I was just like I think I know what I don't like anymore.
• 21:58
  Alban: I don't like the constant checking my pace, looking at the data, after all this dumb stuff, checking what my heart rate was.
• 22:06
  Alban: So don't wear my whoop, don't wear my Apple watch, don't take headphones.
• 22:11
  Alban: I just ran and I ran I don't know about four miles based on how long it felt, and it was so enjoyable and I was like, oh, this is the part that I liked.
• 22:21
  Alban: And I figured out which part I wasn't liking right now.
• 22:24
  Alban: Maybe I'll like it again soon, but I just wanted I went.
• 22:27
  Alban: Oh, I don't like the tracking part, so I'm just going no tracking.
• 22:31
  Alban: And it was probably the first time in 15 years that I'd run more than a few miles without any music or podcasts or anything, and I loved it.
• 22:39
  Alban: I really enjoyed it.
• 22:40
  Jordan: This reminds me of that no Stats 90 challenge that we had talked about sometime last year.
• 22:46
  Jordan: Right, it's like once you let go of the metrics, then you were just able to enjoy the act.
• 22:51
  Alban: Yes, yeah, we all get into stuff because we're like, oh, this thing will be fun.
• 22:56
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Alban: But once you start tracking all the metrics and there's all these like KPIs you know the key performance indicators how will my performance be judged?
• 23:04
  Alban: As soon as you have all those, pretty soon you start looking at it, going oh that wasn't a good run because it wasn't fast enough or my splits were wrong or my cadence was bad, instead of saying that was a good run, I felt good, I enjoyed it and I'm smiling after.
• 23:22
  Alban: That's why I got into it.
• 23:23
  Alban: And yet somehow cadence metrics are becoming the thing that destroys the joy.
• 23:29
  Kevin: And usually people perform and end up doing better.
• 23:31
  Kevin: The more fun that they're having, the more relaxed that you are, the more joy you're getting from doing the activity that you're doing.
• 23:37
  Kevin: Alban, I'm assuming, if you go out and are not worried about your metrics and you're just having fun and you're running with a buddy and then all of a sudden boom, like four miles just flew by out of nowhere, you feel great, it was, it was wonderful.
• 23:50
  Kevin: You're probably ready to do another four, as opposed to if you're just by yourself and you got your all your stats and monitoring apps all over your body and you're running and you're like, ah, it's going slow today or I don't feel good or what's that weird feeling in my calf Like what's happening?
• 24:03
  Kevin: I hate this.
• 24:03
  Kevin: It's just totally different environment.
• 24:05
  Kevin: It is Right.
• 24:06
  Kevin: So figuring out how you can maximize whatever benefit it is that you're looking for out of podcasting, I think can go a really long way in helping people keep podcasting for the long term.
• 24:16
  Alban: All right.
• 24:16
  Alban: So Jacksonville has the big run, like our big river run.
• 24:19
  Alban: This is the thing we're most famous for on Saturday.
• 24:22
  Alban: I know, obviously, my exact time last year and I had all my tracking data and I told my wife and I was like I think I'm going to run it.
• 24:30
  Alban: I might just run it only with my like G shock watch, no phone, nothing.
• 24:35
  Alban: Do you think I'll run faster, kevin?
• 24:37
  Kevin: I don't know, but I think at the end of it, if you just go out there and your goal is just to have fun and enjoy, race with you know, 10,000 other people from the Jacksonville area, and see the scenes, and run over a huge bridge and push yourself and see what you can do, bridge and push yourself and see what you can do, I think at the end of the day, regardless of what your time is, I think you might say I enjoyed it more this year than last and I think that should be the goal.
• 24:56
  Kevin: It's a hobby, right?
• 24:58
  Kevin: You're not a professional runner.
• 24:59
  Kevin: You're not going to go a marathon record anytime soon, so the goal should just be how do I cross that finish line?
• 25:07
  Kevin: And my smile this year is bigger than it was last year when I crossed.
• 25:11
  Alban: Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this with golf.
• 25:13
  Alban: Golf is the one where people are, like they're so focused on like how far does my seven iron go?
• 25:17
  Alban: How accurate are my putts?
• 25:19
  Alban: Like, dude, you're not making the tour, it's over.
• 25:22
  Alban: Like the goal of top level performance is gone, but the goal of having a good time with your friends is here right now.
• 25:30
  Alban: Like that opportunity is here.
• 25:33
  Alban: Grab it.
• 25:34
  Alban: Don't miss that, because you're chasing a totally arbitrary putting performance goal that is not going to impact the only thing you could get out of golf, which is like the joy of golf.
• 25:46
  Alban: Yeah, so I don't want to dismiss the tracking stuff because I am a tracking person, but I feel like I'm a little bit in the.
• 25:53
  Alban: I think I need to take a break from the stats type of period.
• 25:55
  Alban: Enjoy the fun, creativity, enjoy.
• 25:57
  Alban: So to read another one, dark of the sun on Reddit said it's honestly a chance to hang out with their best friend every week.
• 26:05
  Alban: Without the podcast, they wouldn't really talk at all.
• 26:08
  Alban: That's so good.
• 26:10
  Jordan: And relatable.
• 26:11
  Alban: It's relatable for me with Kevin.
• 26:13
  Alban: I mean, for five years there were plenty of periods where Kevin and I didn't talk between buzzcasts.
• 26:18
  Alban: We wouldn't talk, we would just be busy and we'd be headstalling a project.
• 26:21
  Alban: And it's not just a chance to talk about podcasting, it was also a chance to like laugh and goof around and feel connected.
• 26:28
  Alban: And so there are plenty of periods where we did not talk between buzzcasts.
• 26:32
  Alban: There's another side of that coin, of course, Alban.
• 26:35
  Kevin: There's plenty of times where I come up to Alban in the office and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got this hilarious story.
• 26:39
  Kevin: And you're like, is it like really hilarious?
• 26:41
  Kevin: I'm like, yeah, it's going to be great, you're going to love it.
• 26:42
  Kevin: And he tell them like in the moment and you don't have the expectation of waiting multiple days going.
• 26:57
  Alban: I'm now second guessing how funny this story is.
• 26:59
  Alban: Now that's going to be recorded.
• 27:01
  Jordan: Yeah, there's something about when you're an adult you have to have a reason to do everything.
• 27:06
  Jordan: I don't I don't know what it is.
• 27:07
  Jordan: We just we put this like parameter on our lives where we have to have a purpose for every single thing.
• 27:13
  Jordan: Even if it's just like hanging out with friends, like it has to be a game night or a dinner party, you have to have a reason for it, and so it makes sense that you would just have a podcast and, like, once a week, you're just going to get together, you're gonna talk about your favorite albums, you're gonna talk about your favorite shows, and that is going to be your time to catch up.
• 27:30
  Jordan: And speaking of friends, my best friend, katie of Heavenly Bedtime she responded to this and said that she was motivated by how her show helps people relax, and just knowing she improves their lives brings her joy in creating the podcast.
• 27:44
  Jordan: That's very her knowing her that making other people's lives better just gives her joy and it fulfills her enough to keep podcasting in that way.
• 27:52
  Kevin: That is good.
• 27:53
  Kevin: I don't know that I can relate to it Not in a terrible way but I don't know that I've ever felt like, oh, we just did a great episode.
• 28:02
  Kevin: I think we help people relax and we help improve their lives.
• 28:06
  Kevin: I don't know.
• 28:06
  Alban: Maybe we do.
• 28:07
  Alban: If Kevin's bringing joy to your life, please write in do.
• 28:14
  Jordan: If Kevin's bringing joy to your life, please write in.
• 28:15
  Jordan: So, basically, I think what we've gleaned from this section is you know, let go of perfection, embrace fun creativity, use your podcast as a space for, like, experimentation and exploration, and then also just find ways to get more joy in your podcasting.
• 28:30
  Jordan: All right.
• 28:31
  Jordan: So number four building relationships and community.
• 28:34
  Jordan: One of my favorite responses that we got uh, scott from talk with history, said that the podcast brought him and his wife closer together and had given them something they really enjoy doing together.
• 28:45
  Jordan: He said we joke that it took 15 years of marriage before we finally found something we enjoy doing together.
• 28:51
  Jordan: Dude.
• 28:53
  Kevin: I can relate to that.
• 28:54
  Kevin: I can relate to that my wife and I have had.
• 28:57
  Kevin: We've been lucky, I guess, because we have found many hobbies over the years that we both enjoy, but they you know hobbies wane Like.
• 29:08
  Kevin: For a while we were early in our marriage, we got into triathlons, we got into running, we got it like.
• 29:10
  Kevin: It's just been different things but they're like seasonal Right, and so I do love, uh like, if podcasting becomes part of a important relationship in your in your life, whether it be your spouse or a really good friend or something else.
• 29:19
  Kevin: That can be really motivating.
• 29:20
  Jordan: So and you have a record of it.
• 29:22
  Alban: Yeah that's true.
• 29:23
  Alban: Uh, we had another one on Reddit apex Andrea uh says they felt super connected to their motorports podcast when they meet listeners at races and it feels like meeting up with longtime friends.
• 29:34
  Alban: This one's really good too.
• 29:36
  Alban: I read a book about a guy who ran a motorcycle repair shop and he said his favorite thing was like going on motorcycle rides and seeing somebody wearing the shirt from his shop and he felt like so much part of a community and he like validated all the work he was doing.
• 29:49
  Alban: And that's like so much part of a community and he like validated all the work he was doing.
• 29:53
  Alban: And that's what this reminds me of.
• 29:54
  Alban: Like you're going in, you're meeting listeners at races and people who, like they get you, they know so much about you.
• 30:00
  Alban: That's maybe that's how we feel at Podfest, you know, talking to the cycling men of leisure, I was like, oh man, you get a lot about us already because you've listened to so many of these episodes and you know it feels like friends that you've known for a long time yeah, that's always such a cool feeling when you meet somebody and you're talking and then they bring up something about you that, like you didn't say.
• 30:23
  Jordan: I'm trying to remember where we were at.
• 30:24
  Jordan: It was like a pod fest, I think we were talking to some buzzcast listeners and they were like, I mean, like Jordan's house is haunted.
• 30:31
  Jordan: And I was just like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
• 30:34
  Jordan: It's just like such a fun feeling and I just had an instant connection with them Like, yes, you are my people.
• 30:42
  Kevin: It's a good way, especially for introverts, to share a lot about themselves with a lot of people all at once, because I can tell you there's, if you listen to the show and then we ever meet in person, you will know a lot about me that I would never tell you.
• 30:52
  Kevin: It's true If we were in real life standing together.
• 30:55
  Alban: Because sometimes when you talk about yourself, you're like, oh, everything I'm saying sounds so self-aggrandizing, Like I'm trying to project a version of myself and make you think highly of me.
• 31:06
  Alban: But something about on the podcast I'm just kind of chatting with Kevin and you're like, oh, you're doing this race, oh, yeah, I'm doing this race and I it moves on out of my brain.
• 31:14
  Alban: And then we went to podfest and like four different people were like oh, tell me about like your 50 K you did in the woods.
• 31:21
  Alban: Oh yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, I've had now more conversations about that with buzzcast listeners than other people in my life, cause I don't know.
• 31:30
  Alban: To me it's like a weird thing to go and be like, hey, let me do a big recap of what this race was like with random people in my life, but I shared it just on the podcast and made it into a post show, and then you end up chatting with people in real life and you're like, oh, this is really nice.
• 31:45
  Kevin: Have you ever done anything?
• 31:46
  Kevin: Jordan or Alban either one of you answer this question.
• 31:48
  Kevin: Have you ever done anything like, specifically because you were motivated to do it, because you wanted to share about it on the podcast?
• 31:53
  Jordan: No.
• 31:54
  Kevin: I wonder if that could be our next challenge.
• 31:55
  Kevin: It's okay.
• 31:59
  Jordan: So there's this.
• 32:00
  Jordan: Okay, Somebody's getting excited.
• 32:01
  Alban: There's this great show called Nathan For you.
• 32:02
  Alban: Oh gosh, that's too much for me.
• 32:04
  Alban: Jordan, oh, it's so good.
• 32:05
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 32:06
  Jordan: So there's this episode where he is invited to go on a talk show and he figures out that there is a formula to all of the best talk show interviews the guests have like a story and it has to have like this major payoff.
• 32:22
  Jordan: But he doesn't want to be a liar and so he has to somehow make this story happen.
• 32:27
  Jordan: And so he goes through all of the motions of like hiring people to be in certain places at certain times and he like fabricates a story and gets like arrested.
• 32:37
  Jordan: And then he has like this thing and he just arranges this whole thing to happen.
• 32:41
  Jordan: So he has photographic evidence of it on the talk show.
• 32:45
  Jordan: And then he actually went on these talk shows, like Jimmy Kimmel and I think Fallon too, and he actually did the story.
• 32:52
  Jordan: And so you're watching and you're like oh it's crazy.
• 32:54
  Jordan: And then the episode comes out and you find out that the whole thing was fabricated.
• 32:57
  Jordan: So I feel like you're proposing that we do this for the next episode.
• 33:03
  Alban: Yeah, what are we supposed to do?
• 33:04
  Alban: What kind of things would?
• 33:05
  Kevin: qualify, kevin?
• 33:06
  Kevin: Well, I was just thinking you were invited by your brother or somebody to do this 50k run in the mountains, right, yeah, okay.
• 33:11
  Kevin: And so that happened.
• 33:12
  Kevin: But then you shared about it and then people were interested enough that they wanted to follow up.
• 33:16
  Kevin: Like we got some fan mail about like how did you do?
• 33:18
  Kevin: Like I didn't hear anything in the next episode.
• 33:19
  Kevin: Did you survive?
• 33:20
  Kevin: And?
• 33:21
  Kevin: And the people at the conference showed up and like does that ever motivate you to be like oh, maybe I should think of something else fun to be doing because people are interested in it.
• 33:29
  Kevin: Like you find any motivation in that to do other things?
• 33:32
  Alban: This sounds like the biggest phony I could ever become, like the person who's like, oh, I want them.
• 33:37
  Alban: Like, okay.
• 33:38
  Alban: So one thing we do at work is we say what, what did you do over the weekend?
• 33:41
  Alban: And sometimes people share, sometimes they don't, but if I was like, oh, I better go do something.
• 33:45
  Alban: So like I have something to share, like that makes me feel like all my skin's crawling, so I don't know if I could do that.
• 33:52
  Alban: I feel like I'm doing something so I can take an Instagram photo of me drinking my smoothie to post online or something.
• 33:58
  Kevin: Yeah, I think that's one lens to look at it through.
• 34:00
  Kevin: I just don't, you know.
• 34:01
  Kevin: I know you're not that type of person, so I just didn't know if there was a more positive way to look at it.
• 34:05
  Kevin: Like I had fun doing that race.
• 34:07
  Kevin: People are also interested in doing it.
• 34:08
  Kevin: Like I like looking forward to the next challenge that comes my way so that those same people that were interested in it I could share it with them again.
• 34:16
  Alban: What if it was listener directed?
• 34:17
  Alban: What if you tried to be like all right, one of the ways we're going to build community.
• 34:22
  Kevin: You're setting yourself up for massive pain.
• 34:26
  Alban: What if one of the ways we built community was we're like hey, what things would you tell us to do?
• 34:30
  Alban: And someone writes in're like hey, what things would you tell us to do?
• 34:33
  Alban: And someone writes in they're like, yeah, I really think Kevin should go to an improv class.
• 34:36
  Alban: No, not gonna happen.
• 34:37
  Alban: Not gonna happen.
• 34:38
  Alban: Someone's probably gonna write in now, Like give us some ideas of stuff to do, oh, my gosh.
• 34:45
  Alban: What we always do is we come up with things that are like we're like I'm getting outside of my comfort zone, but it we're like I'm getting outside of my comfort zone, but it's like the minimal amount you can get outside of your comfort zone.
• 34:53
  Alban: I'm like I'm getting outside of my comfort zone.
• 34:54
  Alban: I'm going to go run a race without my iPod.
• 34:57
  Alban: Like, give me a break.
• 34:59
  Jordan: Another message we got from Mike from the Quivercast, and the Stinky Booties wrote that the connections he makes keeps him going and he says some days I'm over it.
• 35:07
  Jordan: Then I do an interview and edit and release it.
• 35:09
  Jordan: Then I do an interview and edit and release it and my headspace changes.
• 35:10
  Jordan: I truly love podcasting, even though sometimes it's not always fun.
• 35:14
  Jordan: I relate to this a lot.
• 35:15
  Jordan: There's sometimes that I will think you know what I didn't do quite as well with this episode as I thought.
• 35:21
  Jordan: And then once I get into the editing booth and I finish it and I go, I'm really proud of this.
• 35:29
  Jordan: It kind of refuels me as well.
• 35:29
  Jordan: So I understand that.
• 35:30
  Jordan: And then we got another message from cycling men of leisure saying that when they meet people in public who can specifically recite like word for word a segment of the show, it definitely feels like a morale booster.
• 35:42
  Jordan: And I think that that's very similar to what we were talking about with apex Andrea's response about like meeting people and they say something from the podcast.
• 35:49
  Kevin: Yeah, what an achievement.
• 35:51
  Kevin: I don't know that I've ever met anybody who's quoted us in person.
• 35:54
  Kevin: Have you guys?
• 35:55
  Kevin: I don't think so.
• 35:56
  Kevin: What a great achievement.
• 35:57
  Kevin: You guys must drop some knowledge.
• 35:59
  Jordan: Seriously, people are committed to memory.
• 36:01
  Jordan: Yeah, for people to recite it to you, that'd be so cool.
• 36:05
  Jordan: I don't know what you would say for us.
• 36:08
  Kevin: That's the problem.
• 36:09
  Kevin: We have nothing worth repeating.
• 36:10
  Jordan: We have nothing good, All right.
• 36:19
  Jordan: So let's move on to our final theme purpose and mission driven work.
• 36:21
  Jordan: This one was so cool to see and it was actually a little bit unexpected, I don't know why.
• 36:23
  Jordan: I should have assumed that we had a lot of podcasters doing very important work.
• 36:27
  Jordan: So the first one that I really want to highlight here is sparkling D's health podcast.
• 36:32
  Jordan: She said that it's rooted in her life-saving journey toward holistic wellness after being given just six months to live.
• 36:39
  Jordan: And she hopes to bring others the same knowledge to help them.
• 36:42
  Jordan: I did not know this about D.
• 36:44
  Alban: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot more to the story now.
• 36:47
  Alban: I've known D for a long time.
• 36:49
  Alban: So yeah, d we need to come, or maybe we need to go listen to some episodes and hear the full story.
• 36:53
  Jordan: Yeah, I think so.
• 36:55
  Alban: Sins and Survivors podcast wrote in and said they're committed to raising awareness about domestic violence, missing persons and unsolved cases.
• 37:03
  Alban: The victim's families keep them motivated.
• 37:05
  Jordan: I mean that's important work.
• 37:07
  Jordan: This is an interesting one from Tom Raftery.
• 37:09
  Jordan: He says he uses his podcast to make the world a better place.
• 37:12
  Jordan: Podcasting about climate change gives him a sense of agency because he can concentrate on the stories of good being done to combat it, and I love that.
• 37:21
  Jordan: I love that you know you're taking something that you feel like you don't have a lot of control over and, in your own way, putting a little bit of control on it.
• 37:29
  Alban: Yeah, it's not really healthy to just be constantly reading like, oh, here's some really anxiety inducing news.
• 37:37
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 37:37
  Alban: And I think there's a lot of kind of climate stuff that is just hey, why don't you get really scared about the future?
• 37:44
  Alban: And both of Tom's podcasts are here are the positive things that people are doing, things you could be getting involved in and how you could help clean up your company's logistics, or here's some new tech, and it's the positive version of it.
• 37:59
  Alban: It's the what can you do, not positive as in good news, positive as in it's actionable, versus just consuming bad news statistics all the time.
• 38:08
  Kevin: A listener from Atlanta, georgia, wrote in and shared how one episode prompted a listener's daughter to get tested for sickle cell disease, potentially saving her life.
• 38:16
  Kevin: Whoa, yeah, wow.
• 38:19
  Jordan: How crazy would that be to get a message from somebody saying like hey, I listened to your episode and it made me think I need to get my daughter tested and she actually has like the genetic marker for this, so thank you.
• 38:30
  Jordan: I don't know, I can't even imagine what that would feel like.
• 38:34
  Kevin: I mean talk about having a real impact.
• 38:35
  Kevin: That's amazing.
• 38:36
  Kevin: Thank you for sharing that.
• 38:37
  Kevin: These are super motivational things and I wonder how many people think to share their motivations, like back with the audience or back with the source of the motivation, because sometimes it can feel like think about if you're the person who got the email that said I listened to your episode and then I had my daughter tested and it potentially saved your life Like thank you so much, I don't know.
• 38:55
  Kevin: It just might feel a little bit like oh, that was such an encouraging email and then I go on with my podcast and just do the next episode.
• 39:01
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Kevin: As opposed to sharing that story back with your audience.
• 39:03
  Kevin: And Albin and I talk about this like, how do we share that back in a way that's not like just patting ourselves on the back?
• 39:19
  Kevin: Nobody wants to be that type of person that's like, oh, I'm giving myself a clap, I'm, you know, congratulating myself, but there are ways to do it.
• 39:26
  Kevin: It just sometimes it takes a little bit of effort to be like how would I share that story in a way that's not all about me, it's really celebrating them.
• 39:33
  Kevin: But it's good for people to know that that feedback helps keep you motivated to keep doing stuff like this.
• 39:38
  Kevin: That's having an impact on other people and could potentially have an impact on them.
• 39:42
  Kevin: And so, taking the time to figure out how to share that in a way that feels good to you, that doesn't feel cringy, that doesn't feel it's like, you know, I'm giving myself an award, whatever that is for you, I just encourage you to take the time to figure it out and then try to do it as much as possible.
• 39:57
  Alban: We did this on the YouTube channel, so the first video Kelvin made.
• 40:00
  Alban: Somebody, left a comment and was just like I'm so glad you're back.
• 40:03
  Alban: I love the new set, Good to see you making videos again.
• 40:06
  Alban: And Kelvin was like I really want to put this comment in the end screen.
• 40:10
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 40:11
  Alban: And so he wrote like hey, thank you so much for the comment, this is what keeps us going, or something like that.
• 40:20
  Alban: And then I noticed the next video had way more comments and I think it's because people saw like, oh, the comment doesn't just go out to nobody.
• 40:25
  Alban: It landed with the guy who made the video so much that he put it in the end screen of the video, and so then they're like oh well, if it means that much to him.
• 40:35
  Alban: Yeah, I really enjoyed this video too.
• 40:37
  Alban: I learned something.
• 40:38
  Alban: Here's what I learned.
• 40:38
  Alban: And then they go and type it in and there's just like that's why I love fan mail.
• 40:42
  Alban: People write in, you get the message, you share it with your audience and then everyone realizes you're a real podcaster, there is a real community and we're all in this together and probably, if you've listened to the show for a while, there's already like 10 people who write in.
• 40:58
  Alban: You know, you know Barnabas from Kid Code podcast, you know Tom Raftery and you know D and you know the cycling men of leisure and like you're like oh, I recognize some of these names because they're part of the community of people who write in.
• 41:10
  Jordan: Yeah, yeah, and you have to put it out there too.
• 41:12
  Jordan: I mean, sometimes we just hope that people are going to write into us, like they're going to find that link in the show notes and send us the text message, but sometimes you really just need to put the call to action out there like somewhere in your podcast.
• 41:25
  Jordan: Just let people know like, hey, you can reach out to me this way.
• 41:29
  Jordan: Let me know if this helped you, let me know if you want more of this kind of content and just put it out there that you would like to hear from your listeners too.
• 41:37
  Jordan: Don't just wait for them to come to you.
• 41:43
  Alban: So I was over on Substack and I found this post.
• 41:47
  Alban: Somebody had posted this.
• 41:48
  Alban: It was called Small P Podcasting and this is such a short post.
• 41:54
  Alban: Highly recommend it to people.
• 41:56
  Alban: Go check it out.
• 41:56
  Alban: But it's a woman talking about podcasting and shares this story.
• 42:01
  Alban: Her husband is a Mormon and his best friends are all Mormon and they all went and did their mission at the same time.
• 42:08
  Alban: And they were only allowed to use technology for an hour a week, and so they're all thinking, if we're doing this for a couple of years, we're going to be pretty separated.
• 42:17
  Alban: You know, we can't communicate all that much, and so what they all did was they would, throughout the week, just use a little voice recorder and kind of like record some stuff about what was going on in their mission, and during their one hour a week of using the computer they'd upload it as a podcast for each other.
• 42:35
  Alban: And she mentioned, like you know, after that they all stay really connected and thought that is a cool story about how podcasting kept people connected.
• 42:43
  Alban: And I first really fell in love with podcasting when I was living in Haiti and I'm teaching school and I'm kind of in the same boat one hour a week of internet and I would listen to all these podcasts and feel like much more connected.
• 42:57
  Alban: So then this paragraph or two paragraphs I thought were just brilliant.
• 43:04
  Alban: So let me read this.
• 43:05
  Alban: I often see memes about how everybody has a podcast.
• 43:06
  Alban: Now, the underlying message seems to be that having a podcast is overdone or perhaps something that only people with big egos pursue.
• 43:14
  Alban: But I believe in small P podcasting.
• 43:17
  Alban: I think podcasting, like blogging, will become increasingly mainstream.
• 43:21
  Alban: It should be completely normal to have a podcast intended for a small audience or just for you and your friends.
• 43:28
  Alban: Having a podcast isn't implicitly claiming superiority or aspiring to fame.
• 43:33
  Alban: Instead, it's simply a new medium that we as a society have yet to fully utilize.
• 43:39
  Alban: In the same way that writing was once restricted to highly educated elites, speaking and creating audio is no longer relegated to radio jockeys, and now we're just beginning to see how audio will be used in the long term.
• 43:52
  Kevin: Well, that's a fresh take.
• 43:53
  Alban: I like it.
• 43:53
  Alban: I resonate with that.
• 43:55
  Alban: Everyone has a podcast thing so much.
• 43:58
  Alban: It kind of is like that's actually the joke from all those SNL skits we talked about, Kevin it is.
• 44:03
  Alban: Yeah, it's like the embarrassing thing about having a podcast is, if you have a podcast, you're saying I'm on my way to being a superstar, you know, and it's like the friend who gets a minor role in a commercial and then moves to LA or something to like, become an actor, and it's a little bit embarrassing and that's what it feels like it was if you say starting a podcast but it should be normal, Like I'm just sharing about my life to a small audience.
• 44:31
  Alban: And it reminded me when the internet was new.
• 44:34
  Alban: You know, I'm thinking like early nineties.
• 44:37
  Alban: People wrote blogs and they just wrote it and there was no expectation people were going to read it unless you gave them the URL and said go read what I wrote.
• 44:46
  Alban: And people had like hit counters, because even a few people landing on the page was a big deal and they'd be like oh, I got my, I got.
• 44:53
  Alban: Someone came to the page and it went up a couple of points and then something happened when we got all these algorithms and we got social media and we got search engines, that as soon as we realized like, oh, there is the potential for millions of people to watch and view and read and engage and click and share and like, as soon as millions of people could do it, the implication was that was actually the goal all along, and I don't think that was the goal all along.
• 45:19
  Alban: The goal was you can share, but that doesn't mean the only valuable level of sharing is worldwide broadcast level of sharing.
• 45:28
  Jordan: There's power in the intimacy of podcasts.
• 45:31
  Jordan: Her story reminds me of the people that do like the family newsletters and I love that they took that put it in audio form, because it's so much easier to just record and then upload the audio file and send it out that way, distribute it that way, than to like type up a newsletter and make sure you have the photos attached and all this different stuff.
• 45:50
  Jordan: And a lot of companies are starting to do this.
• 45:52
  Jordan: They're doing these like internal organization podcasts.
• 45:56
  Jordan: You have schools doing this, there's teachers creating podcasts for their students and colleges and all these different churches.
• 46:02
  Jordan: And that's the thing is is just there's so much power and purpose in these smaller podcasts that are just meant to be for like a private group.
• 46:11
  Kevin: The sentiment that really annoys me in some of the I don't know some of the jokes or whatever that get made around podcasting is, if you hear like somebody has a podcast, then there's some people who will make a joke about, like, well, you must really think pretty highly of yourself if you're going to, you know, get around with your bros and share bro science and everybody in the world wants to hear all this garbage and you, you know like you're so, but that's not at all that that that completely misses.
• 46:38
  Kevin: I think the spirit of podcasting that this article that you shared, Alban, really touches on, which is it's an opportunity to create media.
• 46:46
  Kevin: That's not for everybody, right, it's not for you, like, if you hear that and you're repulsed by it or you, it's something about it doesn't hit, or I don't like it, or that's not the type of personality Great, it does that.
• 47:00
  Kevin: That's what's wonderful about podcasting.
• 47:03
  Kevin: It's opt in which I mentioned a little earlier in the episode.
• 47:06
  Kevin: It doesn't have to be for you, and you're right when you say, like blogging didn't carry that same level of stigma.
• 47:11
  Kevin: If somebody 20 years ago said, oh yeah, I have a blog, like, yeah, if you want to check it out here, it is Like you wouldn't be like oh well, they must have a very high opinion of themselves.
• 47:20
  Kevin: If they write a blog, you're just like oh, that's cool, yeah, I might check it out.
• 47:24
  Kevin: I might not, but for some reason, podcasting as a punchline to certain jokes has kind of become like this A lot of people do podcasts are idiots, so if you do a podcast, you might be an idiot too.
• 47:36
  Alban: I really do not like that at all In a way that doesn't land as much for like influencers, which is funny.
• 47:42
  Alban: Like influencers, the point is to become influential and to direct, you know, trends and to make money off of kind of recommending types of stuff.
• 47:52
  Alban: And I don't hear maybe it's because we're in the podcasting world I hear the podcast joke a lot more than the YouTuber joke or the Instagram influencer joke and it's weird because podcasting the numbers are so much smaller and we know that they're smaller and people who are drawn to podcasting are the same people drawn to little B blogging.
• 48:16
  Alban: And then for some reason, we're like making jokes.
• 48:20
  Alban: They're like, ah, it's kind of pointless.
• 48:22
  Alban: Oh, you're trying to make this show.
• 48:23
  Alban: You think everyone should listen to this.
• 48:25
  Alban: No, I actually think like only 45 people listen to this and that's like a good number.
• 48:30
  Alban: It's really not intended for everybody to love it.
• 48:34
  Alban: There's times, like where people will not be in the target market for something and they'll go.
• 48:39
  Alban: Man, I don't think anyone would like that.
• 48:41
  Alban: No, you don't like it.
• 48:42
  Alban: That's good.
• 48:43
  Alban: That's like making a decision, having taste, discernment that's good.
• 48:48
  Alban: Step two, after you've discerned, this isn't for me, is going okay and moving on.
• 48:56
  Jordan: Don't leave a review, just walk away.
• 48:59
  Alban: There's like an infinite supply of stuff online and there are writers out there that you will love everything they write.
• 49:06
  Alban: Go find those people.
• 49:09
  Alban: You'll find those podcasts that connect right to something special in you.
• 49:12
  Alban: Let the stuff go that you're like, oh, this is a bunch of people talking about something that doesn't land for me and I find their voices annoying and the stuff they bring up.
• 49:22
  Alban: They only half read the article and like it doesn't make any sense and, oh great, they're drink, busting out the beers again.
• 49:27
  Alban: If you don't like it, it's over.
• 49:29
  Alban: You owe them nothing it.
• 49:38
  Jordan: It's over.
• 49:39
  Jordan: You owe them nothing, all right, so let's get into sound off First up.
• 49:40
  Jordan: We have a family message saying just want to let you all know how much I look forward to listening to a new buzzcast every week.
• 49:44
  Jordan: Listening has become part of my Saturday routine.
• 49:46
  Jordan: I enjoy the banter and really connect with your philosophy about podcasting.
• 49:50
  Jordan: Keep up the great work and keep podcasting.
• 49:52
  Jordan: I love that, thank you.
• 49:53
  Alban: That's like a save in the file folder.
• 49:56
  Jordan: We immediately pinned that to the website.
• 49:58
  Jordan: Like I went to pin it and you guys already pinned it, so yeah, that was one that came out.
• 50:02
  Kevin: I pinned it, I read it, pinned it.
• 50:04
  Kevin: That was great.
• 50:07
  Alban: David from no Stroke Podcast reached out and said if you do get a White House press pass, make sure you ask a question about all of your listeners tuning in from around the Gulf of Mexico.
• 50:18
  Alban: See how that goes over.
• 50:21
  Kevin: We are Florida people.
• 50:22
  Kevin: We are Florida people, so that hits home Like.
• 50:25
  Kevin: That's like too close to home for us to make the joke about the name of a large body of water that we live right next to, kevin.
• 50:31
  Alban: Let me ask you this Like what I've grown up, I've lived almost all of my life in two places, texas and Florida.
• 50:38
  Alban: What is the body of water between those called the Gulf, the?
• 50:41
  Kevin: Gulf.
• 50:42
  Kevin: That is what everyone calls it.
• 50:43
  Kevin: Nobody calls it the Gulf of anything, it's just called the Gulf.
• 50:46
  Jordan: Interesting.
• 50:47
  Alban: I know maps say Gulf of Mexico and now they say Gulf of America in some maps, but it's just called the Gulf Yep and mostly you would just say, like the beach, and it's the Gulf coast.
• 50:58
  Alban: That's which beach we're going to.
• 51:01
  Kevin: Yep.
• 51:01
  Kevin: And if you live in Orlando and you say I'm going to the beach, people say were you hitting the Gulf or the ocean?
• 51:04
  Kevin: That's what they say.
• 51:05
  Kevin: Like nobody names the bodies of water, they just say Gulf or ocean and everyone who's smart says Gulf because the water is much more beautiful over there.
• 51:13
  Jordan: It's like the Cher or Beyonce of bodies of water the Gulf.
• 51:18
  Kevin: I think I'm missing this connection.
• 51:19
  Kevin: I'm missing the joke too.
• 51:20
  Jordan: You're missing the joke.
• 51:21
  Kevin: Oh, come on the Beyonce of.
• 51:22
  Alban: America.
• 51:24
  Kevin: No, yeah.
• 51:25
  Jordan: It's like those stars that have just like one name.
• 51:28
  Kevin: Oh yeah, like Prince.
• 51:29
  Jordan: Yeah, prince.
• 51:30
  Alban: Yeah, it's just funny to me that it's a controversy that is not around the people who live around this body of water that are interested in it.
• 51:38
  Alban: It's always the joke is always from people who are live far away and are like, oh, I just look at the map and I read it and I'm sure people who live around you know Lake Superior have different names for Lake Superior the Supa.
• 51:51
  Kevin: Let's go swimming in the Supa, that's what I'm going.
• 51:56
  Jordan: We're going to have somebody write into us and be like that is nice yeah we're going to take a dip in the Supa.
• 52:03
  Alban: David also said PS.
• 52:05
  Alban: I loved your joke about a podcaster getting a chance to play in the Super Bowl.
• 52:08
  Alban: That was a good joke.
• 52:09
  Jordan: That was really funny.
• 52:10
  Jordan: Okay, and we also got feedback from Parksville.
• 52:14
  Jordan: Would appreciate use of the chapters feature for your podcast.
• 52:19
  Jordan: Yeah, what's?
• 52:20
  Kevin: up with that, Jordan.
• 52:21
  Jordan: I went and looked.
• 52:22
  Jordan: We use chapters, we have chapters.
• 52:24
  Kevin: Maybe not the quick cast last week didn't have a chapter.
• 52:27
  Jordan: Yeah, but they're so quick, you don't need chapters, right.
• 52:30
  Kevin: Not according to Parksville.
• 52:33
  Jordan: We appreciate them.
• 52:33
  Jordan: I'm sorry.
• 52:35
  Kevin: All right, parksville, listen up.
• 52:36
  Kevin: If you're looking at a longer episode and doesn't have chapters, right back on fan mail or hit our support and let us know what app you're using.
• 52:43
  Kevin: Let's try to figure that out, because we do use chapters, but if it was just that quick cast from last week, yeah, the short episodes, one topic, 10 minutes.
• 52:50
  Kevin: Everybody knows the rules no chapters all right.
• 52:53
  Jordan: We got couple of responses from our episode about video casting.
• 52:57
  Jordan: The first is from Steven Robles.
• 52:59
  Jordan: He understands that major shows like SmartList are skipping video, but many of those shows don't need growth strategies because they're often celebrity driven or have hosts with built-in audiences from other platforms.
• 53:10
  Jordan: That's fair.
• 53:10
  Jordan: And he also said that for newer, growing shows you can stay audio only but you're missing out on half the audience.
• 53:16
  Jordan: Primary Tech launched a year ago and we've had 250,000 audio downloads and 250,000 video views.
• 53:23
  Jordan: Now, to be fair, let's hit pause here.
• 53:27
  Kevin: It's hard to debate in a format like this, because Steven is a very smart guy and I respect a lot of his views and I think he would say the same thing about us.
• 53:35
  Kevin: But it's like this async debate, like, yeah, I'm going to make a good argument, a good point, and then we're going to refute some of that stuff, and then he might like it's just, it's just too disjointed.
• 53:45
  Alban: Well, I had some of this debate with Steven over text, so is it?
• 53:49
  Alban: Is it okay if I?
• 54:00
  Kevin: are we going to read the text thread.
• 54:01
  Kevin: Then he said let me just point out a couple of things that I don't really care for in the way that he worded it, which is these podcasts are celebrity driven and they have hosts with built in audiences from other platforms and he uses that to justify the statement of that these big shows don't need growth strategies.
• 54:12
  Kevin: I would say there's a lot of other podcasts that don't need growth strategies.
• 54:16
  Kevin: Like we just got done talking about this article about like small P podcasting.
• 54:21
  Kevin: There's a lot of shows that people are just doing it and the whole episode we covered all these motivations that really had nothing to do with growth.
• 54:27
  Kevin: Like people are finding a lot of motivation from other sources than just their numbers going up.
• 54:32
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 54:32
  Kevin: So that's who we're talking to, stephen, and I agree that if you're primarily working with customers who are just interested in growing the numbers, video should probably be a part of that strategy.
• 54:43
  Kevin: We've never said it's not a good idea for growth strategy.
• 54:45
  Kevin: I'm just saying that growth strategy and a lot of growth strategies often rob you of the joys of podcasting, and that's what we're passionate about.
• 54:52
  Alban: Yeah, I think I texted Stephen back when he sent this to me and I was like you're forgetting, though, like you're really good at tech.
• 55:00
  Alban: He has a show called primary tech.
• 55:02
  Alban: He reviews every piece of Apple equipment within like four hours of it coming out, like he's not getting early access.
• 55:08
  Alban: Steven is like top 0.1% higher than that of tech savvy people in the world and I think for him adding a video component is almost no additional work and he's doing a great job with it because he's taken all the time to learn everything and set it up.
• 55:25
  Alban: The people that I'm trying to talk to are stressed out about getting the USBs plugged in correctly.
• 55:33
  Alban: They're just not tech savvy.
• 55:34
  Alban: They're experts in other things, and the real hurdle we're trying to get over is the first one.
• 55:40
  Alban: Can I get over how my voice sounds and can I get this tech set up and can I just get this first episode out?
• 55:47
  Alban: If all that happens and you have a really good run of podcasting or a good run of blogging or whatever it may be, and then you want to add on an additional thing, then I say go for it.
• 55:59
  Alban: The downside I'm trying to articulate is so many people are overwhelmed by video.
• 56:04
  Alban: They're overwhelmed by the social media strategy, and so when we add that on as a must do to be successful, then everybody goes.
• 56:13
  Alban: You know what I'm going to do is nothing.
• 56:15
  Alban: And then they don't start the podcast, but they also don't start the video version and they never do the social stuff.
• 56:21
  Alban: They just do nothing and they scroll tiktok all day and I'm really hoping that more people will engage with anything and create anything by limiting it and saying, hey, if it's small b blogging, if it's just podcasting for 30 people so that people are getting treated for sickle cell disease, if it's any of the number of things we talked about in this episode and you do that, that's good.
• 56:46
  Alban: You shrink what you have to do so that people feel empowered to accomplish it.
• 56:51
  Alban: If they later on expand it and say what I really want is growth and half a million downloads or views, then I think Stevens is the right way to do it.
• 57:02
  Kevin: But I'll double down on that, Alban, like what you just said.
• 57:05
  Kevin: I will double down on it.
• 57:06
  Kevin: That what I really really, really love about podcasting and I want to help facilitate and make sure the world has access to, for as long as I can possibly be a part of what's happening in podcasting is that the small P podcasting concept.
• 57:19
  Kevin: I get it.
• 57:19
  Kevin: There's always going to be a top hundred shows.
• 57:21
  Kevin: There's always going to be a top 500 shows.
• 57:22
  Kevin: There's always going to be people who are doing like high-end video productions and some of the numbers that Steven just quoted in this thing about getting 250,000 downloads on audio and 250,000 downloads on video Great, not who.
• 57:33
  Kevin: I'm super excited about enabling and getting into podcasting.
• 57:37
  Kevin: I am super excited about the person who's like, hey, would a podcast help me stay connected when I'm doing missions, work with my friends and family, and I say, yeah, it absolutely would.
• 57:47
  Kevin: It's great for that and you'd maybe could reach a few people beyond that too.
• 57:52
  Kevin: That could have life changing or it could impact their lives in an amazing way, and that's what's so exciting and I love about podcasting.
• 57:58
  Kevin: I'm not interested at all If somebody said, hey, the smart list guys want to have a meeting with you because they want to talk about like how buzzword I don't care, I know it's a stupid business decision.
• 58:06
  Kevin: I would not get excited about that meeting, I just wouldn't.
• 58:09
  Kevin: But I do get excited to go to podcast conferences and talk with people who are just like you and me and are just like interested in podcasting because they're passionate about something, they want to share something, they want to teach something, they want to reach a certain amount of people.
• 58:19
  Kevin: That, I think, is great and once in a while, technology helps enable these things.
• 58:24
  Kevin: Blogging was a huge one and podcasting is one.
• 58:26
  Kevin: People used to create webpages.
• 58:28
  Kevin: So much of that stuff is getting eaten up by these large platforms and the Facebook newsfeed and the YouTubes and all the other stuff, and podcasting is still standing strong and it's a platform for independent creators and it's low barrier of entry and it's exciting and it's fun and it's convenient and it's all that stuff.
• 58:44
  Kevin: And why do I push back on video?
• 58:46
  Kevin: Because you're putting something in the way of that being fun and it's potential to like burn them out.
• 58:52
  Kevin: That frustrates me.
• 58:54
  Kevin: I don't like it because I'm passionate about people having access to this stuff and it being more life-giving than life-sucking.
• 58:59
  Kevin: So that's all.
• 59:01
  Kevin: Not mad at you, just a different opinion.
• 59:05
  Alban: That's all.
• 59:06
  Alban: Michelle from New Creation Meditations, aka Rise and Rain, reached out as well.
• 59:11
  Alban: Okay, guys, thank you for the 30 plus minute rant about why video is unnecessary in podcasting.
• 59:20
  Kevin: You just got a few more minutes.
• 59:26
  Alban: You just took about five years worth of weight off my shoulders and gave me the permission to simplify and focus on what I love most about podcasting the audio.
• 59:31
  Alban: This is probably not best practice, but I also ditched my podcast socials too.
• 59:36
  Kevin: Good for you, it's too, much work hey podcast socials too Good for you, it's too much work.
• 59:39
  Kevin: Hey, we did it too Good for you.
• 59:39
  Kevin: We run a big old podcasting company and Alban ditched all the socials a couple of weeks ago.
• 59:44
  Alban: I can attest probably not best practice, but it wasn't helping us do what we wanted to do, which was invest in really high quality guides and podcasts, and so we were just saying, hey, let's simplify on what we think is really good.
• 1:00:05
  Alban: Actually, same advice for video is going to be the same advice I'm giving myself for social.
• 1:00:07
  Alban: At some point, if you think this is what would be fun and we could do a good job and it would be enjoyable, then we could add it on.
• 1:00:14
  Alban: We didn't make some moralistic we're leaving social media because it's terrible.
• 1:00:17
  Alban: We'll never come back.
• 1:00:18
  Alban: It was a we're not loving what we're doing and we're really loving the podcasting stuff and right now we don't feel like we're doing both great, so let's focus on the one we want to do a great job at.
• 1:00:28
  Jordan: I'd also like to point out that this is a new milestone for us, where we have finally been thanked for long rants on the podcast, where we have finally been thanked for long rants on the podcast.
• 1:00:39
  Jordan: All right, so we've kind of established our next sound off question earlier in the episode, but we want you to write in and challenge us to do something solely for the purpose of discussing it on the podcast.
• 1:00:56
  Alban: Steven Robles is texting right now.
• 1:00:58
  Alban: Create a video version.
• 1:00:59
  Alban: Video version he got us with this one weird hack.
• 1:01:06
  Jordan: And I'm not saying that we have to do it, but maybe we'll pick something.
• 1:01:09
  Jordan: Could be fun.
• 1:01:10
  Kevin: Yeah, let's just leave it wide open too, like you could challenge something that all three of us have to do together, or just call out an individual, like you want Jordan to do something specific.
• 1:01:18
  Alban: Oh, I would say definitely call out an individual.
• 1:01:19
  Alban: That'll make it way worse.
• 1:01:23
  Kevin: That'd be fun.
• 1:01:23
  Kevin: Hopefully we get a bunch and then we can choose the least painful of the group.
• 1:01:27
  Jordan: Absolutely.
• 1:01:27
  Jordan: Oh, I cannot wait to see this.
• 1:01:28
  Jordan: Okay, so to send in your responses, tap the text of the show link in the show notes and let us know what you want us to do.
• 1:01:35
  Jordan: Thanks for listening and keep podcasting.
• 1:01:43
  Alban: So I got a text from you, kevin, this weekend.
• 1:01:45
  Alban: Yeah, you know mostly you don't text me about work over the weekend I don't think you ever do but you texted me.
• 1:01:50
  Alban: You needed recommendations for Athens.
• 1:01:53
  Kevin: Yes, texts are where I put the personal stuff, and the work stuff goes into Basecamp.
• 1:01:58
  Kevin: So if you get a text from me it's not work related.
• 1:02:02
  Alban: Well, I'd figured that out over the course of the last 11 years.
• 1:02:05
  Kevin: That's what I tell the HR people anyway.
• 1:02:07
  Kevin: Oh, is that a text?
• 1:02:08
  Kevin: I can't bring that back to work.
• 1:02:10
  Kevin: So you were in Athens this weekend I was in Athens for a really, really cool event.
• 1:02:18
  Kevin: I've never been before, um, but it was the sec Southeastern conference swim championships.
• 1:02:25
  Jordan: Okay, so Athens, georgia, we're not.
• 1:02:27
  Kevin: Athens, Georgia, not Greece.
• 1:02:29
  Jordan: I don't know.
• 1:02:31
  Kevin: Yes, athens, georgia and very cool town.
• 1:02:34
  Kevin: Alban, you did law school there.
• 1:02:35
  Kevin: Is that right yeah.
• 1:02:37
  Alban: I went to law school in Georgia and really like going to Athens and seeing it one day.
• 1:02:42
  Alban: And then I went and saw University of Florida, I think right before, and I was like, oh, I want to be here, I want to be at.
• 1:02:50
  Kevin: Albin's.
• 1:02:51
  Kevin: Yeah, my wife and I both went to University of Florida and so as we were driving around Athens we were like, oh, this is very different, like in a very positive way.
• 1:02:59
  Kevin: University of Florida, great school, cool environment, at least for us.
• 1:03:04
  Kevin: Nobody puts it on the top list of most beautiful campuses or anything.
• 1:03:09
  Kevin: Athens, on the other end of that spectrum for sure.
• 1:03:11
  Kevin: Beautiful campus, beautiful city, cool little like downtown college bar scene area, very compact, so like you don't need a car anyway.
• 1:03:21
  Kevin: Yeah, super impressed.
• 1:03:22
  Kevin: But I'm glad you bring that up because it also reminds me that I got to take this other journey.
• 1:03:26
  Kevin: I haven't talked about it in a few years, but I think I talked a couple of years ago about that.
• 1:03:31
  Kevin: I got to see Katie Ledecky swim a world record or they call it a U S record, but it really is a world record in the mile event.
• 1:03:38
  Kevin: And so at this swim meet that I was at, sec championships, huge swim conference they're like one of, if not the fastest conferences in all of NCAA swimming.
• 1:03:46
  Kevin: And so Florida is there, texas is there, tennessee is there.
• 1:03:50
  Kevin: These are like huge, like they are always in the top five and they're all swimming together at the sec championships.
• 1:03:55
  Kevin: And I got to see some NCAA records get set.
• 1:03:58
  Kevin: Really Multiple NCAA records got set, which is amazing, and let me catch anybody up who's not aware.
• 1:04:04
  Kevin: But I decided a couple of years ago after seeing Katie Ledecky do that swim, that like I'm like what a cool thing to see.
• 1:04:11
  Kevin: The greatest, possibly the greatest of all time, but like the greatest of at least our time.
• 1:04:16
  Kevin: People do whatever it is that they're doing, and so, whether it be a musician who's like at the height of their career performing, or an athlete at the height of their career like playing their sport or whatever, I was like any opportunity I have to seek these things out.
• 1:04:29
  Kevin: I want to try to do it as much as possible.
• 1:04:31
  Kevin: Not to the point where I'm going to like sacrifice time with my family or like throw all my life savings into way, like into chasing athletes around the world.
• 1:04:39
  Kevin: Yeah, I'm not going to.
• 1:04:41
  Kevin: I'm certainly not going to pass on any opportunities to do this, and so this wasn't even like.
• 1:04:45
  Kevin: This was an ancillary goal, because my daughter swims at college and so we're going to see her primarily.
• 1:04:50
  Kevin: But while we were there, we got to see these other amazing athletes do amazing things Like I think the university of Florida swim team beat the NCAA record in a 400 relay event by almost two seconds, which is like a stupid way to beat a record and swim.
• 1:05:07
  Kevin: Like usually swim records for things like under, like 400 and unders are usually beat by hundreds of a second.
• 1:05:12
  Kevin: Like the increments are so tiny and for them to beat it by almost two seconds by the time they're like halfway through the race, everyone in the crowd knew like this is a new record.
• 1:05:22
  Kevin: Like they are so far ahead.
• 1:05:23
  Kevin: Like even if they stop swimming at this point and start again, they'll still beat it.
• 1:05:27
  Kevin: Like it was amazing and to see these young people like 18, 19, 20 years old.
• 1:05:31
  Kevin: One of the anchor leg in that swim event was a freshman.
• 1:05:35
  Kevin: Can you imagine being 18?
• 1:05:37
  Jordan: years old.
• 1:05:37
  Jordan: Are you serious yeah?
• 1:05:39
  Kevin: They're so young and so amazing.
• 1:05:41
  Jordan: It makes you wonder what the next generation is going to be like.
• 1:05:43
  Jordan: It's just going to be crazy.
• 1:05:44
  Jordan: Do you ever think about going back in time and setting a world record in the 20s?
• 1:05:49
  Jordan: I could set a world record in the 20s.
• 1:05:52
  Kevin: Jordan, I can't believe you said that we have these conversations all the time, because it's amazing how humans have evolved to learn how to do things better and better and better.
• 1:06:02
  Jordan: It's crazy.
• 1:06:03
  Kevin: If you participate especially in sporting stuff.
• 1:06:05
  Kevin: The times that my high school boys now swim would have won Olympic golds in the 50s and 60s.
• 1:06:12
  Kevin: Really, isn't that crazy.
• 1:06:14
  Jordan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Kevin: That's nuts, it's shocking 's, it's mind-blowing.
• 1:06:18
  Kevin: And for them now they're like ah, there's no big deal.
• 1:06:22
  Alban: like dude, you were just born in the wrong century if you were born as great grandfather, as a gold medal hanging in their house for doing something less impressive than your boys are doing now?
• 1:06:32
  Kevin: yes, I mean yeah that's pretty, that's that's and what's really weird about, like sure, um, swimsuit technology and stuff has gotten better, but mostly it's about the training, like the way that they do training, the amount of time they invest in training, nutrition and all that and the sciences behind all that stuff.
• 1:06:46
  Kevin: But, like, at the end of the day, the water's still water.
• 1:06:48
  Kevin: You still got to move your butt, you still got to push your invented better water that helps you go faster, and so it really is amazing that, like just by changing the techniques in which we practice something, there's been that level of advancement in this sport.
• 1:07:02
  Kevin: Anyway, that was my weekend, athens, cool city, and I love watching people do amazing human feats.