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Talks to Brendan Jones & Si Hart (Gotcha!) about their choice of Terminus (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:02
  Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to a hamster with a
• 0:06
  blunt. Penknife the only Doctor Who
• 0:08
  commentary podcast, who give a veneer of sophistication.
• 0:14
  I'm Brendan. I'm sorry, and I'm Joe.
• 0:20
  And we are here today to talk about part 2 of the 1983 story
• 0:26
  Terminus. We previously left out Tardis
• 0:31
  crew in a precarious situation with the doctor Nyssa and car.
• 0:38
  He's surrounded by lasers and turlough and Teagan having
• 0:42
  crawled into some ventilation shafts to escape getting D
• 0:45
  bagged by a bunch of extras, including Kathy Burke.
• 0:48
  So so we're going to, I think just head straight in, shall we?
• 0:55
  That's not a bad thing are using really for a long time.
• 1:10
  So fingers on buttons. Dear listeners.
• 1:13
  We are going in five, four, three, two, one, Les, Something
• 1:23
  I noticed about the title sequence.
• 1:24
  If you watch as Davison's face appears on the upper left as it
• 1:29
  sort of comes out towards you A Star.
• 1:33
  Comes out at the same time of his highlight on his upper, his
• 1:38
  upper right left of screen attention to detail.
• 1:42
  That's what you want. I'd never noticed that in 35
• 1:46
  years of watching, dr. Hood while it was the 80s.
• 1:49
  Darling, you know, a bit of bling see, highlights was
• 1:55
  stellar. So yeah, we're back in the
• 1:59
  shuffling Corridor. Now Or Janet field in am a
• 2:04
  strokes and I mean they're they're heading under the
• 2:08
  grating now. I mean, do they even go into
• 2:10
  terminus? Yeah, I think they stay on the
• 2:16
  ship. I think you're right.
• 2:22
  Or maybe right at the end. Yes.
• 2:24
  Or we say goodbye to Nyssa. I think I might be Well, that,
• 2:29
  that was meant to be shot on Terminus, but ends up being shot
• 2:33
  on the corridor said of, of the of the ship, I think you're
• 2:37
  right. I don't think they actually make
• 2:39
  it like to have to watch carefully.
• 2:41
  Now, help Brendan no one ever says.
• 2:43
  I'm right so much. You don't know what you've done.
• 2:48
  Well, this, there's something that happens in episode 4.
• 2:54
  And we'll get there. Because what we re watching, I
• 2:57
  need to check and it car Ari says something and I'm like, you
• 3:00
  don't know that. I like we know I'm like, we know
• 3:03
  that is that viewer, but you, it's like, you've never been
• 3:07
  there. And I think I'm right now, are
• 3:13
  yesterday. What I was watching this?
• 3:14
  I watched it with the, the newer, the new effects, on DVD,
• 3:17
  and I'm now watching the original effects, which despite
• 3:20
  being done on video look pretty good and not bad models, are
• 3:24
  they? And the quite nice was shot?
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  Hmm, I did think the CIA on this one.
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  I was unobtrusive like it was very good as a lovely shot of
• 3:33
  the ship coming in and all these little docking tubes coming out.
• 3:38
  Hmm. I'm so moved to film now.
• 3:44
  Yes it seems look better than everybody else.
• 3:50
  Is everything else. Yeah, so these film sequences
• 3:56
  were the trade-off for you know before marriage even started on
• 4:01
  the show. They lost it day.
• 4:03
  This was before losing the overrun and everything.
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  She only had five days where she wouldn't usually have six so
• 4:08
  it's like I'll but we'll give you the ceiling and stuff and
• 4:11
  it's like okay so yeah we'll film in a bunch of like tumbles.
• 4:15
  We won't shoot the model shots, it that you link.
• 4:17
  If you know we won't shoot like the bridge seems to me like it's
• 4:22
  like nope, some tunnels. Owls and marks trixin hated this
• 4:25
  and destroyed the trousers of his costume.
• 4:29
  He sneezed Spirit, Janet fielding's bomb for hours.
• 4:32
  I mean what's he complaining about it is a fact you know that
• 4:41
  I do actually quite also. No I was just gonna say it's a
• 4:44
  fact that at some point PSI R and Frazier Gregory did a
• 4:49
  commentary with me on the seeds of death.
• 4:51
  Where we watched Zoe and Phipps crawling around in ventilation
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  shafts. We also did a commentary on The
• 4:56
  Impossible Planet, which featured Rose Tyler.
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  And many people crawling about in this is somewhere in the
• 5:02
  middle. On my point is the doctor who
• 5:04
  hasn't really changed very much over the years Does this count
• 5:09
  as a sexy ventilation shaft? Joe always on film, of course,
• 5:12
  it's sexy. Come on, Brendan you were going
• 5:19
  to say something very intelligent.
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  Then I was just going to say, I really like the bridge set of
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  the liner, like, ever ever, ever, since original Star Trek
• 5:29
  came about, it's hard to do bridge sets that don't just look
• 5:32
  like a Star Trek set. But this, you know, it's despite
• 5:38
  that the set symmetric all the set pieces, make it
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  asymmetrical. Here's Sarah, Sutton.
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  Doing some looking for. Wait no, she's doing some
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  fainting first but then children's of I'm sick.
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  Things. Yes, she's going to be looking
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  for some computer disks by feeling up a pipe on a wall.
• 6:18
  The underworld which again is quite an interesting visually
• 6:22
  spaceship Bridge set again. Yes.
• 6:28
  Yeah, I love the set on underworld.
• 6:32
  And, you know, it's a set also that when they redress it and
• 6:36
  it's meant to be a ship of a similar class, but it does look
• 6:39
  sufficiently different in Underworld.
• 6:45
  Yeah. It's like you know some of the I
• 6:47
  would say all of the individual sets are good.
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  It's just the old red dwarf joke about is this ocean grey or
• 6:53
  military grow. It's very drab, but it is kind
• 6:58
  of meant to be. But imagine if they'd gone for a
• 7:02
  big kind of Gothic spaceship where it was slightly different,
• 7:07
  which would match the momentum or a designs of the Warriors
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  and, and things like that and had brass and And bronze and
• 7:15
  things in it and things like that.
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  That would have fitted the script better.
• 7:20
  Yeah, yes, totally. And I think go an easy way you
• 7:24
  can bring that in. Is you've got the silver
• 7:27
  highlights of the set and the handrails and the designers on
• 7:29
  the walls, if you make those are bra RC coppery color, you bring
• 7:34
  some color into it. Without you've got caught
• 7:38
  already and you keep the grunge Enos.
• 7:40
  Yeah. And I think that will help the
• 7:42
  performances as well. Because if everything is gray
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  and wrap, your performance has become gray, and draft, because
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  you'll just surrounded by assets, that are just creeping
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  in on you the whole time. Hmm.
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  Yeah exactly. Like you know in the grand
• 8:00
  Williams era we sort of have three years of beige space
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  corridors but they then made the costumes, more colorful, you
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  know, to elevate it to elevate that, particularly thinking, of
• 8:12
  the sun makers, where sometimes you can sort of see where
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  they've paid that over the crack Between Two Flats with literal
• 8:18
  paper, but everyone's got color coded costumes in that.
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  So, but, you know, carrying all their have the bronze collars,
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  you've got the Memento Mori. Bronze design of the veneer
• 8:31
  coming up as you say. So I it's it's almost there.
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  Yeah. It just needed that slight
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  adjustment and it's it's really frustrated because all the
• 8:41
  elements are almost there. What I would beg everybody to do
• 8:46
  is to watch this with the production notes on it as well.
• 8:51
  Which details how Gallagher? Each this in the script and let
• 8:56
  your imagination fly because what he wrote down and what they
• 9:00
  realized were two very different things.
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  I've got a question for both of you then because I don't think
• 9:07
  this is over lit for once. I actually think this is.
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  So it's quite dark and times, do you think this would work better
• 9:15
  in black and white? Maybe.
• 9:21
  Um, you know what? It probably would because
• 9:26
  there's so little color it and there's a little color in it.
• 9:30
  Anyway. Yeah.
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  If you yeah, if you do saturated, the color turned up
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  the contrast, which is how you get that very starkly.
• 9:38
  Come. Wait, look.
• 9:39
  I mean, look at these shots of Turlough and Tegan in the vents
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  and those close ups where it's almost black and white.
• 9:47
  Anyway, yeah, it couldn't hurt. I mean, I've always said there's
• 9:52
  many Colin Baker, story that would benefit from being you
• 9:55
  know, shot in black and white. It be far less of a visual salt
• 9:59
  on the eyes and can I ask you both a question?
• 10:02
  I hate to keep bringing up Blake's 7 in this thing.
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  Bye-bye, there's an actor. Who else could you ask?
• 10:09
  You all quiet. So I've got to host of maximum
• 10:11
  power. I have in front of me but is
• 10:15
  this Feller comes along in a minute, the fellow who goes
• 10:18
  woman, you're beautiful in the end it's like seven is that?
• 10:23
  Yeah, it's and Rupert's. Yeah, who plays job it Joe.
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  I think all the guest actors are actually pretty good especially
• 10:33
  the ones that work on Terminus and especially Peter Benson, who
• 10:37
  is on the screen here who gives a phenomenally interesting.
• 10:41
  Performance is really, really good.
• 10:46
  Hmm. Yeah, I do like him as bore.
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  I think. I think Steve Gallagher is
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  incredibly daring naming a character bore.
• 11:00
  You know, all these names come from, I think it's some
• 11:04
  Norwegian mythology, Norse mythology.
• 11:11
  And like with ball, he just cuts with a cut-off, one hour it was
• 11:14
  Bo are and he becomes bought. But yeah, Peter Benson is so
• 11:18
  lovely and so sweet in this and I think this was one of the ones
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  I didn't see until I was about 14.
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  And I remember, when I first saw it, it was his performance as
• 11:28
  the main one. I was strong.
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  My me too. And you know what?
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  It's like, it's such a refreshing element of humor in a
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  story. That's so, like, lacking in any
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  jokes. Yeah, there's a lot of arguing.
• 11:47
  Yes. Yeah.
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  He's some as you well, know, dialogue yet, you know, I think
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  there is a comedic bent to some of these line.
• 12:02
  It's between these two in this argument, but they're both bless
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  them, they're very good actors and they're both taking.
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  This seemed very, very, very seriously, which is, which means
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  it's great that you have Peter Benson because if you look at
• 12:16
  Warriors gate, Warriors Gators, hilarious with With with Kenneth
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  cope and with rorvick and Aldo and Royce, you know, Steve
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  Gallagher knows how to write a good joke.
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  It's just, I think It's it's funny.
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  That marriage seems not to pick up on some of the more subtle
• 12:42
  jokes in this considering Blake are only important part of
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  Blake's. 7 was the humor like it was dark humor but it was a very
• 12:49
  deliberate jokes in there. It was there.
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  Yeah and perhaps Chris bout her just balances that better than
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  Gallagher and say a word well say you can feel yeah you can
• 13:04
  feel the Dead Hand of Eric's a wood stove.
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  Log Provisions all over the screen.
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  I think especially comparing it with the script for warriors
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  Gates that there are certain very same words.
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  You must think us fools lines. I feel so sorry for Steven
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  Gallagher because I think he's a very good writer.
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  I don't think he's gotten by bringing ideas.
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  I think both of his stories were hit by production nightmares and
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  it's just by sort of pure coincidence, Warriors game.
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  Yeah. Yeah you add Hot G Harper there.
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  Paul Joyce, Jonathan told everyone sort of chipping in
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  with the direction and they're all very competent and and then
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  this one was sort of slightly less successful.
• 13:48
  Have either of you heard nightmare County the unmade,
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  story, that big finished it a few years back that was was by
• 13:57
  him, his first win. I frickin love nightmare counter
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  e. What's it about?
• 14:05
  It's so good. So I do not like I haven't heard
• 14:09
  it so I don't know. Okay, you're gonna have to pass
• 14:13
  on this one, I will like so but now this is about to drop over
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  skirt wear. This is Gallagher thought she
• 14:24
  was still being her truck and velvet.
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  So she was going to take her brooch off and drop.
• 14:28
  It makes Like yeah and instead it's like oh she's overheating
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  and she drops her skirt, say word, would say what's dialogue
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  revisions we were just talking about like Gallagher often felt
• 14:40
  they weren't as good as his but didn't fight it because say
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  What's it charged the 11 he fought was nestled as she's
• 14:46
  taking off her skirt was going to say, my stomach feels so
• 14:49
  distended and can look at the sweat.
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  No just have a big heart. Oh boy or rendered by give her
• 14:58
  up. I should have said earlier that
• 15:06
  skirts very fetching on you job. So but getting back to nightmare
• 15:15
  a nightmare, I can't get it back in like, I'm gonna have to look
• 15:22
  it up because I'm having a Mandela effect moment.
• 15:25
  Now, Nightmare. I'm tree with always prepared
• 15:34
  listeners, always, absolutely, I've never prepared way talking
• 15:39
  about so who nightmare? Almond tree there we go.
• 15:44
  Not their country. So yeah, not their country, had
• 15:48
  the concept that this group of scientists had created a virtual
• 15:52
  world to explore and but one day when they're hooked into it, one
• 15:59
  of them is murdered. But his simulacrum still exists
• 16:04
  in the nightmare world. The nightmare country.
• 16:06
  So the doctor goes in there to discover who the murderer is
• 16:12
  during the big finish version. There's also a subplot of these
• 16:14
  people are temporal engineer so they're repairing the Tardis so
• 16:18
  it's this murder mystery kind of thing and you know
• 16:22
  production-wise it would have required, the Tardis sets a
• 16:25
  quarry and some caves. That's not to demand, say who
• 16:30
  stapled. Yeah.
• 16:33
  And say word rejected it with a letter saying, Steven, this is
• 16:36
  brilliant, but once again, you've given us a feature film
• 16:39
  to make, we don't have the budget to do it and listening to
• 16:43
  the big finish version. It's like, no, this is Doctor
• 16:46
  whose bread and butter. You can do this with the same
• 16:48
  resources as the twin dilemma for God's sake.
• 16:51
  I'm going to say that sounds pretty much like front.
• 16:53
  EOS. Mmm.
• 16:55
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 16:56
  Like, you know, when Comes to shove you could, you don't need
• 17:00
  to go to the Quarry location for it and I won't spoil the ending,
• 17:05
  but it has. It has an ending which shows
• 17:09
  Gallagher's usual commitment to understanding the characters.
• 17:14
  Okay, I'm sold. And I mean, I mean that very
• 17:17
  sincerely. Oh, okay.
• 17:21
  I could possibly talk about Steven Gallagher without
• 17:24
  mentioning my doctor, who for the 90s.
• 17:28
  Bugs which I loved with all of my heart, the 90s and he was the
• 17:34
  creator of that and wrote a ton of episodes.
• 17:37
  I know it's a bit ropey now. God, I loved it.
• 17:40
  I absolutely loved it so he can do no wrong in my eyes.
• 17:45
  No, I recently watched chime Chimera, which was by him, which
• 17:49
  was very early. 90s. Horror genetic engineering
• 17:56
  story. Brilliant.
• 17:58
  Abscess tons up pretty well. So yeah, he's a good good writer
• 18:02
  and he's had a really great career as both the TV writer and
• 18:06
  a novelist. So he's done done pretty well
• 18:10
  and Doctor Who was lucky to have have him and we should have had
• 18:12
  more of him. I want to ask you both a
• 18:17
  question. I'm going to start with Brendan.
• 18:20
  What do you think about this story as a finale from Nyssa?
• 18:25
  Can I think what she goes through pretty horrific in this
• 18:27
  story? Yeah, I think there's a bit.
• 18:32
  I think there's a bit of a mistake in.
• 18:36
  Yes, we're making the story about her but she's sort of been
• 18:39
  pushed from Pillar To Post at all times, you know?
• 18:43
  And then in the last episode she gets a bit of agency and she's
• 18:47
  like, hey I can do this, I can I can do that etcetera etcetera.
• 18:53
  whereas later, when Janet leaves, And there's actually
• 19:00
  some praise, I have for Eric. So Eric's a word Tegan isn't
• 19:05
  involved in the main thrust of the plot in Resurrection of the
• 19:08
  Daleks but still gets a lot to do when he's still driving her
• 19:11
  own story. But I will say at least this
• 19:17
  era, there is an effort when a companion is written out to make
• 19:20
  their last story about them. And, you know, you can't do this
• 19:25
  by just stopping in one of the other characters.
• 19:29
  I think it's a shame that Nyssa is treated as a victim through a
• 19:34
  lot of this story. She is like Brenda said pushed
• 19:38
  from Pillar To Post. She's not given a lot of agency
• 19:40
  because she's infected, she's unwell. but, It's a, it's a nice
• 19:50
  ending for the character and she goes off to do something that is
• 19:54
  in character for her and he's very caring, and nurturing, and
• 19:58
  is a good good way for her to go.
• 20:01
  Why? I'm I wonder if if she has to
• 20:04
  experience what the lasses are going through to sort of make
• 20:09
  that choice that no, I'm going to stay and help these people
• 20:12
  because this is really bad what they're going through.
• 20:15
  We had we can do better, yeah. I think, actually, that's,
• 20:19
  that's a really good reading of what, what happens.
• 20:23
  Oh, here we are. The big bang dog.
• 20:26
  Oh, that's probably right. I'm by Lee binding who always
• 20:30
  referred to the comments? The Big Bang dog.
• 20:34
  I love that. He's on.
• 20:35
  He's got he's wearing a krog Skins as his costume.
• 20:40
  That's, that's the most. Yeah, it's hard enough to take
• 20:43
  on a Croc. Believe that Steven Gallagher
• 20:46
  tried to be sympathetic with his script directions and suggest
• 20:50
  darkness, and red eyes. Yeah, it was just meant to be a
• 20:55
  shadow with red eyes. Instead D just straight-up rips
• 21:06
  off a design from a book called Barlow's guide to
• 21:09
  extraterrestrials. So there was a novel by Allen
• 21:15
  Dean Foster who you know, novelized the first Star Trek
• 21:20
  movie and alien, he had a novel called ice rigor which had a
• 21:25
  giant dog alien it and there's this book called Barlow's guide
• 21:29
  to Rules, which takes a bunch of literary descriptions of aliens
• 21:33
  and has this beautiful artwork. And if you look up the Tran in
• 21:37
  that book, it's just the gum. You know, do those interviews
• 21:43
  where it's like, oh, you know, D was inspired by.
• 21:45
  It's like it's not just, not inspired you ripped it off.
• 21:48
  Wholesale, is it sort of pot-bellied?
• 21:51
  Love the gum. Well, you only see it from the
• 21:55
  front, but yeah, I think I think part of the part of the failure
• 21:59
  of the gum is, is the way it moves, like it should.
• 22:04
  Um, sure yeah. Yeah.
• 22:07
  Because because Paul RJ bell, inside the suit can't breathe
• 22:10
  because again, not enough air holes.
• 22:13
  Now I'm sorry. I didn't know.
• 22:14
  This was gonna be warned, Brendon Brendon.
• 22:22
  Can I tell you something that's going to stun?
• 22:23
  You rigid? Okay, I was with the garm this
• 22:30
  weekend just gone, you know, I was being called in January,
• 22:35
  there's a museum in Carlisle where he's got all old Doctor
• 22:41
  Who exhibit and the Garb in his full glory and mouse a lick in a
• 22:46
  very atmospheric way. If this guy had been lightened
• 22:49
  Doctor Who we would have been in business, As he wore in written
• 22:54
  in the flesh, is quite impressive.
• 22:56
  Yeah. Mmm.
• 22:58
  Hmm yeah I I do sometimes think with Doctor Who things look
• 23:02
  great on the mannequin in the workshop but then once you get
• 23:05
  them under the studio lights was like oh yeah and someone's got
• 23:09
  to actually maneuver it and yeah it's not going to work so well.
• 23:15
  Well as talking about the Merkur, well, that didn't look
• 23:19
  good. If the Fleshlight suspect I like
• 23:26
  I like the head of the Merkur, but yeah.
• 23:28
  Yeah. I mean, yeah, I imagine to be,
• 23:32
  if it had been more, like, the shriven Czar, I love this form
• 23:36
  is all what do you guys think about this Cliffhanger coming
• 23:39
  up? Now then, where the the Federer
• 23:41
  attacks? The doctor Hey, it's a doctor.
• 23:47
  Who moment of Jeopardy? Cliffhanger?
• 23:50
  Yep. I'm going to kill you now with
• 23:53
  my bare hands in Welsh importa. Lo are we supposed to believe
• 24:01
  he's been electrocuted? Like he's dead.
• 24:03
  It is Second Story. We didn't know what to do with
• 24:07
  the character so we just electrocuted him to death.
• 24:10
  Excuse me, that's exactly what they did with chameleon, they
• 24:14
  brought him in and then they wrote Ml.
• 24:19
  Like, oh no, the shape-shifting robot is really hard to really
• 24:23
  hard to manipulate. Could we hire an actor to play
• 24:25
  in week 2 week? No, just shove him in the
• 24:28
  cupboards. I think.
• 24:31
  And I love how to talk. I do love how the doctor rolls.
• 24:34
  His eyes are as if he knows she's been captured before.
• 24:38
  We even turn my back for one minute Davison, and Ashley, this
• 24:42
  is going to be a question. I'm going to ask both of you.
• 24:44
  As we see our episode, 2 Davison says on the documentary.
• 24:48
  That the, because the production issues were so bad because how
• 24:52
  sort of Mary rituals handling it all was so bad because they were
• 24:56
  basically doing live television at times.
• 24:58
  Like you said, Brendan earlier. You know, it's like no rehearse
• 25:02
  record. It's just recalled, he admits.
• 25:06
  He said, look, we were a little bit relaxed and I'll
• 25:09
  performances and I, we didn't care, but we just gone beyond
• 25:12
  the point of kind of giving a shit about this now, because it
• 25:15
  was so badly. Handled I wonder if you can see
• 25:19
  that a little bit in his performance.
• 25:24
  What do you think he's very subdued?
• 25:28
  Even for daisies doctor. He's quite subdued in this one.
• 25:31
  And I know he's Peter Davison often struggles with big moments
• 25:37
  like someone like Colin Baker or Tom Baker would play huge.
• 25:42
  Like we're at the center of the universe.
• 25:45
  He massively underplays. The fact that they're at the
• 25:48
  center of the universe and that should have been a big moment.
• 25:52
  It's a, it's a huge. huge part of the story, but it feels under
• 25:59
  Underdone. Which hey Brendan no II.
• 26:04
  Totally agree with them with sigh.
• 26:08
  You're very angry person. Yeah, like I've often said,
• 26:20
  Davison is quite low down on my list of doctors because of that
• 26:24
  subdued performance. But he is someone who every time
• 26:28
  I watch, I see something new in his performance because he's not
• 26:32
  necessarily a character actor at this point.
• 26:34
  I think now, he certainly puts in the sort of character actor
• 26:37
  performances when he does things that it's magnificent cause he's
• 26:39
  got such a sense of comic timing, even is Big dishes,
• 26:42
  Brendan like his big finish's now.
• 26:44
  Oh it's knocking about in a absolutely everyone talks about
• 26:50
  the reappraisal of Colin Baker in big finish and so they
• 26:53
  should, he's amazing, but Davison Davison brings his extra
• 27:02
  15 years of experience. Now, 30 years of experience or
• 27:06
  more to those roles like the 40 audios from last year the 40
• 27:12
  anniversary or is absolutely stunning.
• 27:16
  But yeah, I certainly feel a relaxed attitude from Davison.
• 27:19
  He never gives a bad performance.
• 27:22
  No, but certainly things like this time flight you can see him
• 27:28
  relaxing a little I'll and yeah, I think that's possibly a way to
• 27:33
  get through, not enjoying the work at that time.
• 27:38
  And I think by his third year, you know, when you look at
• 27:42
  something like worry, is that the deep I don't think his
• 27:44
  performance Flags in the same way because the material is
• 27:48
  really good but it's in the scenes with the Merkur on what
• 27:52
  not. You can kind of see him, relax a
• 27:54
  little bit throughout the rest of everything else, not so much.
• 27:59
  Yeah, I always wonder if he's like, if he is a bit embarrassed
• 28:03
  by them mellotron, my such a naturalistic actor.
• 28:06
  I've been, you see that. Don't you on the cast revolver
• 28:10
  outtakes where he's got to do the Cliffhanger acting and he
• 28:14
  just burst into laughter because he's just.
• 28:16
  No, I called, I can't do this. I'm not that actor.
• 28:19
  I think the saw the worst example is that Morgan Undead.
• 28:22
  Cliffhanger. He goes.
• 28:23
  You know, don't you understand? It'll be the end of me as a
• 28:27
  Time, Lord. Yeah.
• 28:28
  Lucky Duck and give a shit, but I think it takes a strong
• 28:32
  director to bring that out of him because then you get to
• 28:35
  Kaiser and his army and Frontiers as well where he's
• 28:38
  kind of embracing the melodrama a bit, you know, and he's
• 28:42
  playing a bit more heightened. Also, their writing character
• 28:46
  lines for him. There aren't a lot of character
• 28:48
  lines in this story. It's he is feeding the
• 28:52
  exposition. Yeah and there's not a lot of
• 28:56
  the scenes with with kauri where there Creeping around the
• 28:59
  corridors. There should be their
• 29:01
  conversations are so functional that he's not given material
• 29:05
  that he can get anything out of you.
• 29:09
  Need, a, what is it? I've just I've just brought them
• 29:11
  down. Well, jolly good now you can put
• 29:12
  them up again in he'd quit. Well, boys, that's episode 2
• 29:19
  down. I have a feeling things are
• 29:21
  going to get even more dreary internally.
• 29:24
  So it's great. Are you ready for this?
• 29:28
  I'm ready, I guess.