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Putin & Christianity || SLP400 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and thank you for downloading episode 400 of the Speak Life Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I can't believe I just said that.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a bit of a landmark, isn't it?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for choosing to listen to this podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We really do appreciate it.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Thomas Thoroughgood.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I work at Speak Life, and as always, we will be jumping straight into the episode.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: And this week Glenn's not here.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: So he's not at the cinema.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: Glenn uh and uh he's he's got a debate tomorrow, hasn't he, with Bart Ehrman Ehrman?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Bart Ehrman.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_04: As you might know, as kind of a kind of quite a well-known sceptic.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um did he what was what's the name of his book he wrote?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um it was a number it was a bestseller.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: I don't remember.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was all about sort of debunking the Jesus and New Testament scholar um who is very s sceptical about the historicity of Jesus as a person.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, Glenn's preparing for that, which I think will be a worthwhile enterprise.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's on Unbelievable with Justin Brierly.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know when it'll be released, but there's certainly it's being recorded tomorrow, but yeah, it might be held off for a while until it's released.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, do be praying for Glenn as he goes into that for a good conversation there, um, and to kind of be winsome and for the gospel to kind of win out, really.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Today you might have seen the title of the speaker today, which is uh Putin and Christianity.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um so you you might have seen in some news reports this week uh that last week Vladimir Putin attended a concert at the Luzniki Sports Centre, uh which was to mark eight years since um, or at least as the Russians see it, the anniversary of Crimea's reunification with Russia.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um and at that um kind of uh event he made a speech which has drawn the attention of some people around the world um because of his particular use of some scripture in it to sort of justify the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so we've kind of been chatting a bit about this between ourselves.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: We thought it might be helpful for us to actually look at what he said first, because obviously, well you basically most people who've reported it have only reported sort of here's two sentences he said, and we wanted to have a look at the wider context.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um we are going to kind of read out what he said because it's not hugely long.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um before we get to that, it shall we talk about the fact that he did a rally?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the very fact that it's a rally in the first place.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: The context of the speech within which he uses scripture is that we're all quite aware of the fact that this war is being sort of played out in the media as well.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: There is a kind of propaganda war that's being played out at the same time.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the last time we addressed this topic on the speakeasy, I suppose we focused a bit more on the fact that Vladimir Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, was um Is he president or prime minister?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've totally forgotten.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's president.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is he president?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, um, but anyway, so we looked at the fact that his his rise to um you know the premier position in Ukrainian politics is remarkable because he was this kind of entertainer actor, in fact, played someone who played the Ukrainian president um in a TV show and then becomes the the president of Ukraine.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that he seemed to grasp the public imagination with the way that he was reporting from his own offices, and just these kind of classic lines, you know, is there a more uh badass politician line than refusing the Americans' offer of an airlift to safety by saying, I don't need a ride, I need ammunition.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we were kind of talking about that his his depiction and um sh showing himself as being this kind of warrior king who stays in place to defend his city and his people, and is clearly an absolute master at at presenting himself through the media, and has spoken to the House of Commons and has spoken to Congress, I think, last week, and is constantly kind of addressing different groups of people asking for their support in terms of Ukraine, and is always shown in his kind of military fatigue or kind of just in his kind of green khaki t-shirt or whatever it is.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we're aware of the fact that Putin for so long has been this leader determined to show that he's a strong man.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's whether it's topless you know, pictures of him riding a horse through kind of some Siberian outback or you know, judo champion or or whatever it is, he's been determined to play this image of the strong leader.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what what do strong leaders do, or what do leaders do who are campaigning for more support?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: They hold rallies in massive stadiums with loads of flags.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's clearly something we we properly associate with you know the campaign trail.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about particularly American elections, you'll always kind of you know get those images of someone standing there giving a speech, whether it's at an Iowa caucus at the beginning of the process or later on.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they're always they're giving these stump speeches, very short, just to kind of encourage the faithful to say, let's keep going, so they can turn out the vote.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, once you're already in power, that's a really odd thing to do because you're in power, like yeah, just just just rule responsibly because you you have the opportunity to do that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that he's holding a rally in the same stadium as they held the 2018 World Cup final, you know, bossing in, what is it, two 200,000 people were brought in with flags, and a you know, celebrity guitarist or something plays some Ukrainian or sorry, some Russian you know, kind of rock anthem or something.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Wasn't it made made in the U.S.?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Made in the USSR.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Made in the USSR, I think it was called.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just the fact that he's he's feeling the need to hold a rally would suggest that things are not going the way that he'd anticipated, yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that Ukraine is is proving to to be much more difficult to to invade and to take over than than he he'd thought previously.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that itself I think is just an interesting an interesting situation.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um why hold a rally?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're not campaigning, you're you know, it just seems a s sort of strange one.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um well in some ways not strange at all, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly what you do when you want people to support you, get behind you, get behind you.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it would suggest that people aren't in the way that you'd you'd want.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um but shall we look at the speech itself?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have uh yeah, I've got it here, copy it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um and yeah, we I mean we thought it would be interesting to read it because as we've talked about, we've had this kind of discussion between ourselves about um why is Put what is Putin's thought process in actually invading?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: And that's so much of the news coverage now is simply just day by day, here's another terrible thing that's happened.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it hasn't uh doesn't appear to at least be, not particularly on the mainstream at least, any real thought behind well why is he doing this?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah like it it just kind of happening now and it's ongoing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um so we thought well we'd have a look and try and get the the context of what he was saying and try and get some understanding.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um we do want to say that by reading this out, we're not in any way endorsing what Vladimir Putin says.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: I hope that's really obvious, but this is the internet, so um we're simply just quoting what he said in order to then hopefully discuss it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: So uh at this uh concert, uh Putin began by saying, We, the multi-ethnic nation of the Russian Federation, united by common fate on our land.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: These are the first words of our fundamental law, the Russian Constitution.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Each word has deep meaning and enormous significance.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: On our land united by common fate.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: This is what the people of Crimea and Sevastopol must have been thinking as they went to the referendum on march eighteenth, twenty fourteen.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: They lived and continued to live on their land, and they wanted to have a common fate with their historical motherland, Russia.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: They had every right to it and they achieved their goal.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: Let's congratulate them first because it's their holiday.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: Happy anniversary.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: Over these years Russia has done a great deal to help Crimea and Sevastopol grow.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_04: There were things that needed to be done that were not immediately obvious to the unaided eye.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: These were essential things such as gas and power supply, utility infrastructure, restoring the road network, and construction of new roads, motorways and bridges.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: We need to drag Crimea out of that humiliating position and state that Crimea and Sevastopol had been pushed into sorry, the state that Crimea and Sevastopol were being pushed into when they were part of another state that had only provided leftover financing to these territories.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: There is more to it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: The fact is we know what needs to be done next, how it needs to be done and at what cost, and we will fulfil all these plans absolutely.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: These decisions are not even as as important as the fact that the residents of Crimea and Sevastopol made the right choice when they put up a firm barrier against neo Nazis and ultranationalists.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: What was and is still happening on other territories is the best indication they did the right thing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: People who lived and live in Donbass did not agree with this coup d'etat either.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: Several punitive military operations were instantly staged against them.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: They were besieged and subjected to systemic shelling with artillery and bombing by aircraft, and this is actually what is called genocide.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: The main goal and motive of the military operation that we launched in Donbass in Ukraine is to relieve these people of suffering of this genocide.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: At this point I recall the words from the Holy Scripture Greater love hath no man than this, than the man lay down his life for his friends.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: And we are seeing how heroically our military are fighting during this operation.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: These words come from the Holy Scripture of Christianity, from what is cherished by those who profess this religion.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: But the bottom line is that this is a universal value for all nations, and those of all religions in Russia, and primarily for our people.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: The best evidence of this is how our fellows are fighting and acting in this operation, shoulder to shoulder, helping and supporting each other.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: If they have to, they'll cover each other with their bodies to protect their comrade from a bullet in the battlefield, as they would to save their brother.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a long time since we had such unity.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: So happened that by sheer coincidence the start of the operation was the same day as the birthday of one of our outstanding military leaders who was canonized, Fedor Ushakov.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: He did not lose a single battle throughout his brilliant career.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_04: He once said that these thunderstorms would glorify Russia.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: This is how it was in his time.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: This is how it is today and will always be.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that came directly from the um Kremlin.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: From the Kremlin there.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_04: Still getting a comment about sound here.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what that is, but um yeah, apologies for that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um not quite sure what that is.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: So that yeah, that came directly from the Kremlin.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so the the thing that people have picked up really is that the quote from scripture that you used from John 15, you know, greater love has no man than this than to lay down his life for his friends.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um and the way he sort of ripped that out of context, um and he's using it really, it seems that he's using it to to say we're laying down our life or our soldiers are laying down their lives for our friends.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: The Ukrainians are our friends, they're really part of the historic motherland.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um and therefore, you know, this is kind of a good thing.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um but as we've kind of thought about this, the I think if we saw a politician kind of in the West quoting scripture, we're quite cynical about it in the sense that we tend to think they're probably just you know, they say to their aides, what would be a good verse I can chuck in to make me look good, you know.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe not in the UK, maybe it's not you wouldn't get such kudos, but perhaps in the States you're much more um kind of much more favoured for that kind of thing.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um but interestingly there has been some kind of writing about Putin and and the faith he may have, or at least claims to have, which is more than just kind of posturing for um you know political gain, I suppose.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's interesting that I guess most or it's interesting to me that that doesn't seem to be something that's been picked up in in the news much at all.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it would be a bit of a it would be tri it's kind of tricky for us as Christians, if it is, because of course it can then feel like um well we'll see, here we go.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Here's you know, this is this is real Christianity, Vladimir Putin invading Ukraine and shelling hospitals and and killing all these people and displacing millions more.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I suppose it is it's it's m very notable that in this address he's choosing to quote Jesus.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in some ways it might be surprising to our ears that quoting Jesus would have cultural value for Putin's audience.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we ought we do often think about you know parts of the the US, particularly, you know, there's a kind of Bible belt, and you can, you know, there are certain kind of things you can say to turn the crowd in your favour, and they can just be tokens to get get the approval of people.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting that who d in this very short speech he's quoting from from Jesus speaking to his disciples in John 15.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the context for that, I you know, think about the context of of Putin's use of it in his speech.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: He gives a kind of the history of the Russia-Ukraine conflict as he sees it, which he basically takes back to 2014 and you know wants to sort of celebrate the anniversary of of what he calls the reunification of Crimea, but we would call the the annexation of Crimea from the rest of Ukraine, and his concern for the people of the Donbass region and the way in which these neo-Nazis and ultranationalists are you know committing genocide against them.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what he's he's saying is true.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it seems kind of funny that you're calling them ultranationalists when you're holding the rally with the big flags.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you're going to use that as a kind of um as an insult, that seems like a strange thing to do when you're draped in the in in your own nation's flag.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So but the context of him using you know this John 15, 13 is given there.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then he goes on to say this is from the Christian book or the Christian holy scriptures, but it's applicable to all the faiths in Russia, which again feels like a strange you're now going with, you know, a kind of uh religious pluralistic encouragement to say, Oh, of course, you know, I'm gonna use the words of Jesus to get my audience on side, but I'm also going to tip my hat to the other people who aren't followers of Christ and who aren't Christians, and to say to them, but you can get on board with this sentiment too.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the absolute the absolute tragedy of someone misusing a verse like this is it doesn't stop the verse being true.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: When Jesus says greater love had no man than this, then he laid down his life for his friends, that's true.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so Vladimir Putin, however many other lies are in his speech, however many other things which are comp complete falsehoods or or or half-truths, that line is true.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things for me personally to think yeah, the the context might be might be stripped out.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: You might be misapplying the verse, but the wonderful truth of of the world is that there is no greater love than someone lay down the life of their friends, and that's what Jesus then went and did.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: But he didn't go and do it because um he was shot down in a tank in some military incursion or invasion.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: He did it by willingly submitting himself to into the hands of of the Jewish authorities and the Romans.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So in that sense, you kind of want to pick that verse out and say Vladimir Putin in a way, in a bizarre way, thank you for drawing our attention back to the cross as the own as the greatest love and as the way to judge your actions, giving us the lens through which to understand geopolitical conflict, to understand the history of Russia and Ukraine and and all that other stuff.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um But you were gonna talk a bit a little bit about Putin's sort of faith background or or Yeah, so I mean I think the Again, it's something that people haven't really talked about generally, but I mean it came up I think from um there was an article by Giles Fraser which kind of drew on some of this, and I others talked about you know his faith as well.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: So Putin hasn't really been, although he hasn't been keen to talk about it particularly publicly, he's not also in some ways he's not shied away from kind of saying he ha has an affinity with the Russian Orthodox Church.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: So he was um I understand his mother was a Christian, his father was an atheist, his mother baptized him in secret, he still has a his baptismal cross that I think he wears pretty much all the time that he doesn't take off.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um and when uh so I was reading about a minister who met him in sort of about 2007, 2008, and he was very struck, you know, um talking to him that Putin was saying, Well, we need to he was insistent that young Russians get back into church.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um you know he seemed fascinated with this guy who was a reverend and kind of wanted to question him about his faith.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so you know, from this this guy who's a vicar, he seemed to find that there there was there was a kind of genuine kind of interest there, but then he he asked him about kind of the imprisonment of a a band um who had performed in the cathedral, I think, you know, as a protest.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think he'd have them kind of locked up and thrown in prison.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so this minister minister was talking to him about forgiveness and saying, Well, isn't that not the main thing?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, you know, it was clear from the look Putin gave him, this is a very kind of strange idea to him that you would forgive someone.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um but apparently it his the the the biggest story, I think, from kind of Russia Ukraine in terms of the Russian Orthodox Church and the way they see things is that they look back to the founding really of Russian Orthodox Christianity in kind of 988, which actually happened in Kiev.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um where I think it's Vladimir, a different Vladimir, obviously, who was called Vladimir.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone's called Vladimir.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: Vladimir Vladimir Vladimir Vladimir.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: He was kind of he brought the people of the town to be baptized in the river.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that was kind of the birth there of kind of Orthodoxy.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: So the Russian Orthodox Church, from my understanding, looks to Kiev as the place, you know, as this kind of quite sacred site, really.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um and there's been a concern from the Russian Orthodox Church uh as they've looked at Ukraine and how Ukraine, in their eyes, has become more kind of liberal, westernized, um and they're kind of seeing that happening on what they consider to be sort of this holy space.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um now you know, so there's been suggest there's some suggestion then that Putin is on a kind of in his mind, some kind of holy war almost.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: That he has a kind of spiritual destiny to kind of bring these people back together for you know, for this kind of greater good.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um which is the main kind of thrust of of the Giles Fraser article is to say that Putin's aspirations are not as he says in this speech, which is we're just trying to defend the people of the Donbass region.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's something else.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the people of of um Crimea who voted, you know, in the referendum, they wanted to be part of Russia or anything.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: The interesting thing is we in the West look at him talking about neo-Nazi type things and we go, it's clearly nonsense.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: He's just a madman who wants power.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: And like and and what Giles Fraser says is basically when we say that, we just that's basically just the people in the West going, we don't really understand.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: We don't really understand what drives him.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and actually, if it is this spiritual dimension in some sense that drives him, again, I think Jesus Fraser says, like, we just don't understand that mindset in the West.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think Glenn touched on it the first time week we talked about um the conflict that it's very alien to us, this idea of sort of you know, this this spiritual kind of side to things, but actually for the majority of people in the world today and throughout history, that has always been a driving factor.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's fascinating to me that none of that really seems to have been reported.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: in the news it it's almost like we it just doesn't register that that could be a thing.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I you know I I don't quite know what to make of where he's going with it all.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I mean he clearly in some way professes a belief.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Now you know he's probably not a Christian in the sense we would understand it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: But he in some way sees himself as driven by that in a way which I don't think is just a cynical on the surface kind of ploy.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: Where that will lead I don't know.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's fascinating.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: In in a funny way I I think we know where it leads you know not too long after Jesus says to his disciples greater love hath no man than this and he lay down his life for his disciples he's in the Garden of Gethsemane being arrested and Peter pulls out his sword and cuts off Malchus's ear and Jesus says put that away because those who who live by the sword will die by the sword so in in many ways what Putin is is engaged in is not the it is not according to the kind of gospel that Jesus Christ preaches when he says greater love hath no man than this then he laid down his his life for his friends.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually pulling against that so strongly and it's very difficult to see how you can justify Putin's actions in Ukraine according to a Christian understanding of just war and the kind of necessity of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's appealing to that in that speech where he's saying you know we've got to go in there because there's genocide being performed and of course there is there is a history to this conflict that goes back through the m the last eight years most of which most of us weren't thinking about Ukraine and weren't thinking about Russia.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the Western audience um including myself are not are not clued up on this situation and haven't been following it um particularly closely apart from the last couple of months.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's there's something about the the urgency and the odirism of the the news cycle at the moment in which all we're going to really focus on is the effect of Putin invading Ukraine which is this many buildings have been destroyed, this many people have been killed this many people have had to flee their homes all of which outrageous effects and terrible and and the church and the w needs to respond to those things however we can but as for the aspirations what is Putin trying to achieve through this the only lens something like the BBC really has for understanding these are geopolitical and it must just be a it's a power grab and because he's got some kind of dictatorial megalomaniac attitude he wants to and then he'll w he'll ne he won't stop there, will he?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: He'll keep going and he wants to take over the world.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as Giles Fraser points out the possibility that there is a spiritual dimension faulty though it may be but that his convictions might be led by the desire to reunite the Russian Orthodox people isn't really something that we would really consider.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um because we're we're so secularly minded in that way.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah well let us know let us know kind of what you think down in the comments about that whether it's i you know is that something that's kind of registered for people at home before that this kind of dimension to it this kind of maybe spiritual quest that he might be on or anything to do with that.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if others have picked up on that maybe others have seen the articles on it as well.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: We'd love to kind of know your thoughts specifically on that kind of thing.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: We thought it would be good to kind of think a bit about the church in Ukraine itself though to kind of get a sense of maybe what's going on there.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: I found I was doing a bit of searching around earlier it's it was quite tricky to find specifics but there was a bit on the on the uh open doors uh website just uh where they've been speaking to some pastors there um and you know from what they were saying I mean it it seems um I mean obviously things things are terrible in the country itself but the Christians seem to be uh encouraged um uh so we've got two pastors uh in the Ukraine um we're talking about how actually the the church is having an opportunity to be salt and light in the midst of all the kind of horror that's going on there um and they ask prayer for protection for them and prayer for the end of the war.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um they said they've been seeing God's hand at work in Kiev.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um they said at this moment we see lots of bombs that do not explode we have testimonies of people being led out of danger shortly before attacks.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: They said also very heartening many people in the Ukrainian army are asking for prayer.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah he said uh today we prayed at 12 noon with all denominations it was announced that the whole of Ukraine would pray together although it's hard to meet in person.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: And actually on this open doors website they were saying it's easy to miss the significance significance of those words all denominations because apparently when the Iron Curtain first came down sort of um back kind of in the early nineties new churches were implanted and there wasn't much unity at all between them but it seems that those barriers are kind of breaking down and uh this guy says there's a respect now for each other in our city they've been having regular meetings eating together and praying together we've started to see each other's hearts right now all denominational differences have collapsed every Christian is praying with the same attitude which you know is a great thing to hear isn't it so you know I guess we want to keep praying keep praying for the the people of Ukraine keep praying praying for the church in Ukraine as well for what they're doing.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um yeah and someone yesterday yes yesterday said to me at church you know we're praying every day we pray for we pray for Putin to come to salvation you know wouldn't it be great if actually his eyes were open to the true gospel and that would bring change so yeah guys do keep letting us know um we'll come back to your comments uh in just a moment this conversation went out live on our YouTube channel you can watch it and all our other conversations at youtube.com forward slash speaklifemedia we're on the other social media platforms just search for speaklifeuk that will keep you posted and why not join us when we next go live you can also email comments and questions to info at speaklife.org.uk Speaklife is supported entirely by the generosity of people like you especially through your prayers.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: If you'd like to contribute financially regular or one-off donations are much appreciated and you can do that at speaklife.org.uk forward slash give.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: If you're a regular giver you can request access to our Discord server where you can join us for more conversation and exclusive behind the scenes content.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get back to the podcast so we like to kind of in this middle section just sort of dive into the mailbag a little bit and we'll uh see what people have been saying.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: Last week we were talking about copyrights.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: And what was the great irony of last week's YouTube video so in the midst of talking about copyrights uh we got hit with six copyright strikes at once during that video.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll be seeing Ed Sheeran in court next week or something.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes yeah but uh no it was all good yeah um and uh so we had a good chat about that and uh we continued to have good thoughts about that actually afterwards um a comment came in on the YouTube video of last week from Luke Kennett um Glenn had made reference to I think he'd said Steve Jobs had said you know some people steal the the best people sorry um some people imitate the best people steal the ideas okay and there was this kind of sense of we don't really know where that came from Luke Kennett said T.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: S.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: Eliot wrote immature poets imitate mature poets steal he wrote that in an essay about the dramatist Philip Massinger in his 1920s work The Sacred Wood this could be the origin of the quote that Jobs actually attributed to Picasso certainly sounds very similar.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's just one of those cases where we're seeing everybody has used this quote everybody claims it but interestingly oh it's not well it's not that interesting um so I'll be the judge of that viewer let us know um we we were talking on this thing about what is the possibility that Article Sound System and Doa Leaper came up with the same thing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh okay okay okay and this week I was um teaching a guitar lesson and as I was demonstrating a chord I did something to it and I thought oh that's very much like it sounds very much bond like the James Bond kind of theme.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so later on the day I kind of ran with that a bit and I thought I'll just try and make something like a bit sort of bond inspired.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so I did this thing and then all the time I was going like there's there's just something about there's this one part in it like I was like I was thinking of as a chorus and it was like this two and and it always had two chord stabs at the beginning of each bar d dun dun you know like that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: And um and I went and I I went and listened then to um the Jack I was gonna say Jack Black it's Jack White not Jack Black Jack White Jack White and Alicia Keys Bond song they did.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: No and um you played their song.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah but I don't even really know the song but it's clearly it's I didn't know what the name is I can't remember what it's called now.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: Another way to die is it?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_04: Another day to die but basically without really even knowing the song I had then you done copied it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: You done what Jack White had done and so in a way you wrote that song.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Even though he did it you really done it.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: But according to Glenn if I do it better it's okay.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: That was Glenn's thing anyway.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: So Glenn Glenn takes a very a a strong there shouldn't be no copyright whatsoever is that his pretty much well he did until he discovered that someone had stolen his song and then he got it all of a sudden so um yeah uh lots of stuff going on in the comments I I don't honestly know if I've got time to process all these things.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: Looks like it's all going on um pretty sure we've got at least one Russian bot down in the comments are they chatting amongst themselves as well I'm um I think so what can you guys who you guys who are over there are you being able to follow this a bit more than we have yeah yeah we're you we're keeping tabs.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: Keeping keeping tabs back here now taking it all in it's quite a lot going on there so it might be Okay Okay.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: No one's commented about um James Bond songs though so that's has anyone commented on our our kind of new set?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: I meant to mention that you might have noticed we are in a slightly different outside so we are in the new set this week although it's partially but we're working on it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's an iteration of what the eventual form will be but yeah you've still got cement under your fingernails from all these bricks all this uh yeah all the work we did last week to get this up it was hard work we did it yeah so you know I think it's come together quite nicely and uh you know we've got some got a little bit of greenery going on some books there to make us look like we're cultured and literate things like that you know at least look that way we don't read them but but no is uh have we had I'm hoping that lots of people want to you know no one's made any reference to that one hasn't even seen what is the point in that I know don't know why we've got the way so Christoph Keating I know you're not a Russian bot it's fine there is one commenter who who likes to reference Russian biolabs quite a lot despite the fact we've never referenced Russian biolabs.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well you literally just did that now they've got audio of you saying that Russian biolabs you know where this is gonna go stop saying that phrase okay we're gonna get in trouble um so um we had a really nice email actually as well last week um from a guy called Justin Armitage in Canada he said I just wanted to let you know I've been enjoying this really been enjoying the discussion about the Apostles Creed in the latter half of the podcast what a great way to lead up to Easter and I just you know I messaged him back and said you know oh thanks Justin it's nice to have some encouragement we're glad you're finding it useful um and actually you know we're quite enjoying going through the creed aren't we this little section there.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is fun I missed last week's because I was in the cinema you're in the cinema last we were doing that.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah I but I missed the bit with under punch pilot which I was excited about because did you want to did you have something to say particularly like there's just a great bit when uh C.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: S.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Lewis in his essay Myth Became Fact when he's talking about the fact that you know the the gospel with its death and resurrection has some similarity with other mythologies and so people discount it because of that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: He says um but it's all in order in the Gospel of Jesus because it takes place under Pontius Pilate and so that's a that's a a historical location for these events when other you know dying and rising gods um Osiris or Baldur or something like that as Lewis references you couldn't say that of them they're not historically grounded.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're not rooted in the world that we live in.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas yeah that's what I would have said last week if I'd been here on that topic.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: Well I th I think we found it's helpful to actually read the bits to to probably read the bits we've already done up to the new section we're going to look at today.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: So um in previous weeks uh we've covered uh from uh the beginning and it goes I believe in God the Father almighty creator of heaven and earth I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord who was conceived by the Holy Spirit born of the Virgin Mary suffered under Pontius Pilate was crucified died and was buried he descended to the dead on the third day he rose again he ascended into heaven he is seated at the right hand of the Father and he will come to judge the living and the dead and that's so that's our that section at the end there on the third day he rose again through to that end bit.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's the kind of section we're going to think about a little bit today.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now I said this earlier to you and you looked quite excited I did well because I was preaching on the resurrection yesterday so I was preaching John 11 uh for All Souls Eastborn uh for a guest service and well you know John eleven is about the resurrection of Lazarus but it's within that narrative that Jesus says I am the resurrection and the life no one um sorry anyone who lives um uh who believes in me even though he lives uh will even though he dies will live um and so he's saying that to to Martha who's Lazarus's sister and then he has the conversation with um with Mary and then it contains that shortest verse of the Bible Jesus wept and then after that Jesus raises Lazarus from the tomb.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: So so trying to preach that in terms of the incarnation it's great because we have a God with firsthand experience of bereavement so he he has wept at the tomb.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: He knows what it's like to lose a loved one and that when we're going through that very painful process of of of coming to terms not with our own mortality but with the mortality of those around us we can know the comfort and compassion of of Christ in that moment but obviously that the even better news is that Christ himself was raised on the third day he rose again and that that was a resurrection unlike the resurrection of Lazarus because Lazarus was raised and then died again but Christ is raised as the first fruits so the first little bit of the new creation and that is the kind of the promise of new creation for the rest of the current creation is that Jesus Christ will is is risen and that's that that's happened wonderfully in our world in this world not in a made up world or a world of of um you know through a wardrobe or in a galaxy far far away or you know through platform nine and three quarters but in this exact world in which we have Vladimir Putin and we have Vladimir Zelensky and we have the history of the Russian Orthodox Church and everything else in this world Jesus is raised and that's that's the hope of of of salvation for for all who believe so I just on the resurrection point I think it's just so encouraging to to witness to the resurrection for each other and to say Jesus is risen.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know he is risen indeed what really struck me when I read it earlier was in those next three lines he ascended into heaven seated at the right hand of the Father who can't judge the living and the dead was just the the past present and future tense of that.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: But this presently now he is seated at the right hand of the Father and I think you know whether it's talking about w whether you're thinking about grief or anything the knowledge that Jesus is now in heaven at the right hand of the Father ruling in heaven is an encouragement for us.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know that whatever we're going through we don't have a dead God we have a God who is alive and is now reigning still reigning as much today as he was when the creed was written and then that future tens of he will come to judge living the dead I think as well there's an encouragement there isn't there that there are there are going to be lots of things in this life that are just unfair.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah you know where there is injustice.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know and and maybe the things we've been talking about you know to do with Russia and Ukraine will be part of that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_04: But no one and nothing will go without being judged.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: There will be no kind of wrong that is not righted and there will be no kind of injustice that is left kind of um without justice being done.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a great encouragement.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: But also I mean there maybe there's a reminder in there as well you know that um I I think often when we I don't I don't think we often think that much about Jesus as the judge.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean we know we know Jesus is the judge but I don't know if we oft we think about him in that way subconsciously as often as we do about Jesus being sort of saviour and lord.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so all those things are obviously tied up together but I think this the creed is good in that in all these bits it draws us to these different aspects of what Christ has done and who Christ is and what he will do.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly and and the fact that they united and and distinct work points within Christ's work of salvation are are distinct, right?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: He he came in the flesh he was you know conceived by the Holy Spirit he was born on the Virgin Mary he did suffer under Pontius Pyre was crucified died and was buried and he goes down into the dead that the humiliation of Christ as he as he falls to the lowest point you can you can sort of stop the story at any point and go look how far he's come now look how where he's gone now where are we in the story now where are we in the story now and then from that lowest point he's raised up into the resurrection okay he's now walking around seen by um the disciples and and others then he's ascended that's a crucial point an ascension day is a great thing to celebrate if you you know uh if you're looking for things to to mark out your calendar as being you know wonderful moments of of of Christian celebration ascension day is one um but you you mark that up and then he's ascended and he's seated and he and the fact that he sat down means he's not going back and forth right continuing to the atonement.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I won't sit down I'm not staying well he has sat down because he is staying and then also that that he's coming back as you say and the need to tell all of that in the same breath and the need to stop and pause and focus on different points of it is is really helpful.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I always think with that he will come again to judge living and the dead or the quick and the dead which is quite a cool old school version of it is that uh I forget what's the verse in Acts is it Acts 17 God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed he has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead and so you think wow we all want justice we all want there to be um the you know, the everything to be sorted out in the end.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And God has given he's appointed someone to do that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: The person he's appointed is the one who wouldn't let C decay but who raised him up.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean just that encouragement as you were saying of as we're looking at something like Ukraine, the complexity of this sort of what to believe, what's going on, who's you know, how can anyone get through this?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can Putin use these words when clearly he's causing, you know, such a humanitarian crisis and killing so many all of that mess is safe to bring to Jesus and to have confidence that he will judge justly.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's just yeah, really just so much good stuff in here, isn't there, in the Creed and it's been really good I think just to the gospel's great it is good news.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: When you actually stop and look at it Well I mean I think that is that's why actually looking at the creed like this has been a good thing.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah because when we do the creed in church you often get up and you just bash through it quite quickly.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it is easy to kind of not really reflect on it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: But as you do reflect in it because there's so much richness contained within it.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: So you know I'm finding it encouraging for myself as we just go through this.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: So we hope you've enjoyed uh the Speakeasy we'll catch you again soon.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: Take care.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye well there we go that concludes episode 400 of the Speak Life podcast.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now if you've been listening for a while I'm gonna sound like a stuck record but once again I will draw your attention to the Speak Life Foundry.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Speak Life Foundry is our training program.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a 10-month training program and if you're a student in the Foundry you come and stay in Eastbourne on the south coast Sunshine Coast for about 10 months and you will be involved in producing the content of Speak Life videos podcasts like this one in fact including this one and it's also an opportunity for you to go on mission with Glenn Scrivener and Nate Morgan Locke.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's also an opportunity for you to develop your own creative portfolio to pursue your interests to discover new creative skills try out new skills and it's really just a great opportunity you meet lots of like-minded Christian creatives you attend the intensive weeks there are four of those in the year you attend the Friday Foundry unlocked sessions so tons of theology and theology of filmmaking and theology of creativity in general it really is a fantastic opportunity and I did it last year and it it did change my life.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not just saying this it it really was a formative year.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's something that interests you in the slightest whether you're a woman whether you're a man whether you've got lots of experience in in creative things or whether you haven't haven't had a huge amount of opportunity to do it but you're you're really passionate about it I really would uh recommend checking it out you can go to speaklifefoundry.com to find out more and to apply well I think that's all from me thanks so much for listening and God bless