Latest / The Realtor Who Wines / Access to Justice - The Truth About Personal Injury & Advocacy Beyond Lawsuits

Transcript

Access to Justice - The Truth About Personal Injury & Advocacy Beyond Lawsuits · The Realtor Who Wines

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Realtor Who Wines podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm Rashelle Newmeyer.
• 0:03
  Your host is with us, a student of life, a connector, a passionate wine enthusiast, and your local favorite guide.
• 0:10
  Join me as we explore the vibrant Pacific Northwest.
• 0:14
  Savor the finest wines and champion the spirit of entrepreneurship.
• 0:18
  Each episode, I'll sit down with inspiring guests, supporting business ownership and uncovering the stories that make this community unique.
• 0:25
  So grab a glass of wine, settle in, and let's embark on a journey of discovery and connection together. Cheers.
• 0:32
  thank you for being on the show.
• 0:34
  I really appreciate it.
• 0:35
  Would you mind introducing yourself to everybody?
• 0:38
  My name is Katie.
• 0:40
  I'm an attorney here in Beaverton, Oregon, where I'm located, but I am licensed in Oregon and Washington.
• 0:46
  Well, here's to you.
• 0:48
  Thank you for being here.
• 0:50
  Thank you for having me. Yeah.
• 0:55
  We're drinking Saki today, as we were talking about.
• 0:58
  Will you talk about that one a little bit since it's local.
• 1:01
  Gotcha.
• 1:02
  Momoko Saki is made locally by the Kora.
• 1:05
  Which means, I think brewery and sake one.
• 1:08
  It's located in Forest Grove.
• 1:10
  They have an excellent selection of not only sakes that they make, but then also they import a ton of incredible sake.
• 1:18
  Yeah, like this one I picked up today.
• 1:21
  I'm going to have you say that because I'm just so bad at this.
• 1:26
  Okay.
• 1:27
  So they also this one is one that they import too.
• 1:30
  And I was like Forest Grove Oregon, what in the world?
• 1:32
  So I thought that was pretty cool.
• 1:34
  So I'm glad that you wanted to have Saki today.
• 1:36
  Yes, it's very fun.
• 1:38
  And the thing I find most interesting about Saki is that a lot of these breweries, not necessarily the one sake one in Forest Grove, but the ones in Japan have been around since the 1500s.
• 1:46
  Oh my gosh. Yeah.
• 1:49
  Like, yeah. It's history.
• 1:51
  500 years of sake.
• 1:52
  That's what's like. It's incredible.
• 1:54
  Yeah. That's so cool.
• 1:56
  Well energies us a little bit to what kind of attorney you are and what kind of practice you have.
• 2:01
  I am a personal injury attorney, which means there's a lot of different things and people you can represent in personal injury, but I handle car crashes, but also semi crashes, pedestrian injuries from vehicles as well as medical negligence.
• 2:19
  And then also railroad which everyone's like railroad.
• 2:23
  What does that mean.
• 2:23
  Yeah.
• 2:24
  So that means folks who are injured working for the railroad.
• 2:27
  It could also be labor disputes that railroaders have or then also injuries to say, passengers or other people within that get hit by, say, a train or something at a crossing or like that the max qualify as railroad or is that completely different?
• 2:45
  It's slightly different.
• 2:46
  They're not considered railroad in the sense they're not a federal, not considered part of the federal railroad industry.
• 2:54
  They would be more like municipal transit, which also personal injury on a train on try also falls within kind of stuff that I do.
• 3:02
  So sure. Yeah.
• 3:03
  For anyone that's not from Oregon, the Max is a light rail that we have that goes through Portland.
• 3:08
  So that's I was asking that when you started your law journey.
• 3:12
  Did you know you wanted to go into this specific field or did you kind of self-discovery as you were going the law, finding what you're going to enjoy in the law is definitely always about self-discovery.
• 3:21
  I bet you always think when you go into law school, I'm going to do this, but then you get out there into the actual work of a particular area of law and you're like, this is not satisfying.
• 3:31
  Yeah.
• 3:31
  So I'm sure some is like much more time conducive than others.
• 3:36
  I mean, I'm sure all cases require a lot of time, but just different kinds of research and loopholes and things like that.
• 3:42
  Different kinds of work.
• 3:43
  And you got to find the thing that picks your interest and keeps you interested.
• 3:49
  And I the only thing I knew about why I wanted to go into law is that I liked helping people, and I liked solving problems.
• 3:55
  So whatever I did, I knew I wanted to be representing people.
• 3:59
  I didn't want to be representing companies and doing business transactions, things like that. Sure.
• 4:04
  And then I naturally just can't shut up when I see someone being wronged or some bad thing happening.
• 4:11
  And so that is how I ended up in trial work, because I now realize that I like to tell the world about my clients and the bad thing that happened to them.
• 4:21
  So yeah, that's how I ended up here.
• 4:22
  Was I that met you through the Women's Collective, which is a networking group here locally, and your tagline when you introduce yourself.
• 4:31
  So like we all have to go around like, I'm, I help people buy houses.
• 4:34
  But will you say your tagline because it resonated with me?
• 4:37
  You well, you said something about you believe everybody has the right to fair justice.
• 4:42
  Oh, everyone should have access to justice. That's what it was.
• 4:44
  And I was like, yes, thank you, I love that. Yes.
• 4:47
  And that's one of the things that I really and I, through lawyers that I was trained by, really focused on was helping everyone, regardless of whether or not they're going to be a paying client.
• 4:58
  If someone calls me and needs help and I can help them, depending on what that help is, I'm going to do that, even if that's for free.
• 5:05
  People call me all the time and I answer their questions, even if it's not my area of law.
• 5:10
  Just because you have a problem, you should be able to speak to an attorney to find out who you need to speak to.
• 5:16
  You might not even calling the right attorney.
• 5:18
  You might need a different kind of attorney.
• 5:20
  So you need to get a referral.
• 5:21
  You just need to be able to speak to someone about it.
• 5:23
  And so many attorneys and so many industries have such barriers with consultation fees and things like that.
• 5:30
  Yeah, that it scares people away and like, no, it's going to cost too much money.
• 5:33
  So they don't even ask the question they need to be asking because they're like, it's too much money without even knowing.
• 5:38
  Yeah, I imagine being an attorney is a lot like being a doctor, where people just assume you answer all questions law like, because someone will call a doctor and be like, well, do you know what this is?
• 5:49
  And they're like, I don't know.
• 5:50
  I'm a, you know, like a gynecologist.
• 5:52
  I don't look at that part of the body very often.
• 5:54
  So I'm assuming law is like the same where people call you with all sorts of questions.
• 5:59
  Definitely. It can be.
• 6:00
  And I don't mind stopping and answering those.
• 6:02
  I know a lot of attorneys won't, but I'm like, no, if I just need to find you the kind of attorney you need and help you resolve your problem, I'm happy to give you referrals.
• 6:12
  It's no skin off my back. Totally.
• 6:14
  So what about when you were going through law school or even interning and practicing, like, drove you specifically to this, these different types of fields that you want to talk?
• 6:27
  Well, I when I was in law school, I intern at the legal clinic, which allows you to work with actual attorneys that are representing folks with landlord tenant bankruptcy and family law issues.
• 6:40
  And that's all people based, representing people.
• 6:44
  And they got a real taste for the practice of law.
• 6:47
  And then I got another internship at a personal injury law firm, and that was the most fun and the most fulfilling work on the planet.
• 6:56
  And I was like, whoa, this is my thing.
• 6:58
  Yes, because the what?
• 7:01
  Personal injury allows me to do that.
• 7:03
  I, like of other areas of law, is that I get to play detective, and I get to investigate what happened and what went wrong, and sometimes nothing actually went wrong.
• 7:13
  And no, there's really no bad guys.
• 7:13
  Sometimes bad things just happen.
• 7:16
  Yeah, but a lot of the time you go get to go find your bad guy.
• 7:21
  And that is so fulfilling.
• 7:21
  And then knowing that.
• 7:23
  Oh my gosh, I can help right this wrong.
• 7:26
  I can help this person by going after this bad guy because, you know, the bad guy thought, this person doesn't matter.
• 7:32
  Just sit down, sit down, shut up.
• 7:34
  You know you're not worthy or who's going to listen to you?
• 7:37
  Yeah. Kind of.
• 7:38
  And so that's why I fell in love with personal injury, was getting to investigate things and put the puzzle pieces together.
• 7:46
  Now you grew up in Michigan.
• 7:49
  Great. And so.
• 7:50
  And you came out here for school, and then did you just decide to stay, or did you have a job that kept you here?
• 7:55
  Like, what made you just stay in the Pacific Northwest?
• 7:58
  Well, they say that you should go to law school where you want to practice.
• 8:01
  Oh, okay.
• 8:02
  So that you can when you're in law school, you can start meeting the community.
• 8:06
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:07
  Your entire career is based on relationships.
• 8:10
  So you want to start in law school, and Oregon has the best weather and super liberal.
• 8:17
  Less expensive than Seattle.
• 8:19
  California is too hot.
• 8:21
  So it's like Oregon's the place I came out here for the whole ball of wax.
• 8:25
  To live for the future.
• 8:25
  For everything. Got it.
• 8:27
  Had you been here before you came out here for school?
• 8:30
  I had had a couple small trips, and I was just like, oh, I think this is like the perfect climate.
• 8:36
  No more snow and ice.
• 8:36
  I thought, yeah, yeah.
• 8:39
  My mom always jokes that she was fooled because she visited.
• 8:42
  I was born in Colorado, and my mom visited multiple times every July because my aunt lives here.
• 8:48
  And so finally my mom's like, we should move.
• 8:50
  So when we were five, we moved to Oregon.
• 8:51
  And then my mom experienced all the rain and she was like, this is not what was sold to me.
• 8:57
  This is not what I anticipated.
• 8:59
  But not we're used to it, of course.
• 9:00
  But what has surprised you over the years with law specifically, like certain changes or like how cases are done?
• 9:09
  Like, has there been anything that's like really stuck out to you over the years?
• 9:14
  I guess on the forefront, just how grateful I am that I did choose Oregon and to practice in Oregon, because we are an anomaly amongst, I guess, the legal jurisdictions, all the different states that have lawyers in the US.
• 9:30
  Because we are so collegial, we are not nasty, we are not each other.
• 9:35
  We are not calling.
• 9:37
  I mean, I don't get me wrong, there are always going to be some bad apples out there, but well, and I'm sure even someone that you respect a conversation can get heated when you're representing your client.
• 9:46
  I'm assuming in the courtroom.
• 9:49
  No, it never even gets heated.
• 9:49
  I only know courtroom shootings.
• 9:52
  Like I've never actually been in, like, a case.
• 9:54
  Like I've never witnessed anything outside to tell for a client to get heated.
• 9:58
  Totally understandable, because this is their lives.
• 10:00
  It's personal to them.
• 10:01
  But if a lawyer is good at what they do, they shouldn't be taking any of it personally.
• 10:07
  We should just be able to go in there and do our job respectfully and professionally.
• 10:10
  So typically, no, we try to not get heated.
• 10:15
  I love that and not to be true professional to one another.
• 10:21
  And I really think that's why I can be successful here, because it's that would be so much more stressed out if I was elsewhere dealing with mean, nasty opposing counsel every day.
• 10:30
  But I'm talking about that. That's fine.
• 10:32
  So in real estate, I always say that people always ask me why I spend so much time with other realtors and like networking.
• 10:37
  And it's the same thing.
• 10:38
  It's the collaboration of our competition.
• 10:41
  It's so much easier to do something professional with somebody that you trust and know instead of doing these like negotiation tactics and not we're going to, you know, trick them and use these words and stuff.
• 10:52
  So it's nice I like to hear that your industry's the same in the area.
• 10:55
  Yeah.
• 10:55
  Because at the end of the day, the better relationships we have, particularly with opposing counsel, the better outcomes we can get for our clients and make it less painful and, you know, just smoother all around.
• 11:08
  Yeah.
• 11:09
  So what I know that you do a lot of like mentoring throughout the industry.
• 11:13
  What is some advice you would give somebody like if a 17 year old came up to you and I was like, I'm thinking about going to law school.
• 11:20
  I want to get into law.
• 11:22
  Like, what kind of questions would you ask them to see if that's like the right path for them or guidance you would give them?
• 11:27
  I guess I would just ask them why.
• 11:30
  What are the things about the law that you think you know would satisfy you and why?
• 11:36
  Because a lot of people get into the law because they're like, well, I like to argue and things like that.
• 11:41
  And I was it's not that's not necessarily a sign, right?
• 11:45
  A good sign.
• 11:46
  And the, the thing that cued me in because I didn't know I wanted to be a lawyer, I finally ended up talking to someone who was already in law school.
• 11:54
  And they're like, well, what do you want to do?
• 11:55
  Because I was like, I couldn't figure out what I want to do.
• 11:57
  I said, I just really want to help people and I love to solve problems.
• 12:01
  And they're like, dude, that's exactly what a lawyer does.
• 12:03
  I was like, really? That's it?
• 12:05
  And so then I was like, oh, so this is where I'm supposed to be?
• 12:08
  Because that's really what lawyering is all about in any area.
• 12:13
  It's about helping people and solving problems.
• 12:17
  So make sure you have good communication skills and that, you know, to have a real barnstormer of a career, a good, solid one.
• 12:26
  It's all about relationships.
• 12:27
  As you had mentioned, being able to work with other people to have good outcomes, to be able to be a better lawyer because you can get help and ask for help, you know, things like that. So why? And then focus on relationships.
• 12:42
  What are some classes?
• 12:44
  And I'm totally green on this, so forgive me for asking, but like there's pre-law.
• 12:49
  Like what kind of classes do you normally take in pre-law?
• 12:52
  And then obviously in law school it's much more specific to law.
• 12:55
  That's one of the most beautiful things about the law.
• 12:58
  You do not need to have a pre-law degree at all.
• 13:01
  Oh, really? I don't even know.
• 13:01
  No, you can do whatever you want.
• 13:03
  Oh my gosh, I had no idea. So you could just.
• 13:05
  Your undergrad can be in anything.
• 13:07
  Yes. That's amazing.
• 13:09
  However, if you want to be in I believe it's intellectual property or.
• 13:13
  No, it's patent. My bet. Patent law.
• 13:15
  If you want to be a patent lawyer, there is a requirement that you have an engineering degree.
• 13:19
  Oh, interesting.
• 13:20
  That makes sense.
• 13:20
  So yes, because you're dealing with patents with with inventions with engineering.
• 13:25
  Right.
• 13:26
  So that is one requirement.
• 13:27
  But otherwise it doesn't matter.
• 13:30
  What is something.
• 13:31
  Well, you kind of already touched on it earlier that some people just automatically assume they can't afford counsel, even just to get advice whether or not they're going to need to pursue anything.
• 13:42
  What is some advice you would give to people?
• 13:45
  Don't just Google it.
• 13:46
  Like what's like, what are the right questions to ask?
• 13:49
  Or how to find the right lawyer for them first?
• 13:52
  Know that you can shop around just because the first lawyer you speak to says yes, doesn't mean that you have to take that lawyer.
• 14:01
  Sure, if you don't feel like it's a good fit after speaking with that attorney or their staff, you can go on and move on to the next.
• 14:09
  And so that can be difficult when you're trying to find the right lawyer, because some of us work on contingency fee basis, which means our consultations are free.
• 14:18
  And so if that's the case, I would say get a consultation, take that attorney for a test drive and see if it's a good fit.
• 14:25
  Yeah.
• 14:25
  You have good communication and they seem like they're easy to work with.
• 14:29
  Otherwise, if it's not contingency and say hourly like a family law attorney or bankruptcy, make do your research online, look at their websites, make a list of some potential options, and then call those attorneys offices and ask what it would take to set up a consultation or an intake.
• 14:46
  And even though, you know, you might not want to pay for that consultation, just asking that question, all the information that that attorney staff has to get in order to even consider that they have to take a lot of information from you.
• 15:01
  And so if that is difficult and that one simple task can't be done easily with that attorney staff, that's an indicator.
• 15:08
  That's a sign.
• 15:08
  Maybe this isn't the right office for me.
• 15:10
  So I would say try contacting those offices and if they seem really friendly, easy to work with, it's a good sign.
• 15:18
  And then maybe do have that consultation where you pay with that attorney if you have to, and then move on from there if you have to have one.
• 15:24
  But it really depends again, also on the severity of your problem.
• 15:28
  Yeah for sure.
• 15:29
  Are there certain questions that like I know if I was advising someone, hey, when you're interviewing a realtor, ask this and this.
• 15:36
  And that'll be some indicators on their knowledge, as there are certain questions like that with attorneys that people should ask.
• 15:43
  I guess I would say that's too hard to say.
• 15:48
  Just because of the law depends on every situation.
• 15:51
  Everything is a case by case basis.
• 15:53
  No two cases are the same.
• 15:55
  So I would really say it more comes down to are the communicating well with you when you have a conversation with them?
• 16:03
  Are they interrupting you, cutting you off?
• 16:05
  Do they make you feel respected?
• 16:07
  Do you feel like you can trust them?
• 16:10
  It's more about that when you're working with them.
• 16:12
  You can ask them, you know, if I send you an email, what's the kind of turnaround I can expect in a response from you?
• 16:18
  You know, am I when I call the office?
• 16:21
  Am I mostly going to be working with your assistant?
• 16:24
  And then only when I have really big legal questions do I speak to you?
• 16:27
  You know, that kind of stuff.
• 16:28
  And find out what's easiest for you or what's important to you.
• 16:32
  If you don't mind working with the assistant, then it's not a big deal.
• 16:35
  But if you mind and you really want like, oh, I hired you, I want to be talking to you. Exactly.
• 16:40
  Not your assistant.
• 16:40
  Yeah. Those are great questions. Exactly.
• 16:43
  And so and also law firms can come in different forms, which is you know, you mentioned your wonderful colleague Sarah had recommended me.
• 16:52
  And that's because as a young attorney, she had the partner on her case, but I was the associate.
• 16:57
  And so I had all the time in the world to handhold, as I like to call it, all the clients to get to know them.
• 17:04
  And I think that is a really valuable skill to have for an attorney to just be able to take time, stops it out, and really speak to each one of your clients.
• 17:13
  And I think it gives more genuine, personalized service rather than folks that are just processing through cases really quickly, not getting to know their clients well.
• 17:24
  And I think it'd be hard because you're dealing with like some pretty major moments or things that are happening in people's lives.
• 17:31
  And so if you just feel like, oh, I'm like, KS, you know, irritated that I called her with this, like, that's going to be hard on a client, right?
• 17:41
  But having somebody like you that is empathetic does take the time to listen.
• 17:45
  I think that is really important, especially in the type of law that you practice.
• 17:49
  Like you're you might be in pain because you in an injury.
• 17:52
  Right?
• 17:53
  You might also not be yourself either.
• 17:56
  You're you could be worried about money because you've been out of work like all these other stressors.
• 18:00
  And then to have you be a stressor would be even harder.
• 18:03
  So it's nice that like your focus is, how do I be a person of value and helping you in this situation as just one more obstacle for you to, like, get through the situation?
• 18:13
  Yeah. That's wonderful.
• 18:14
  I had this elderly client and he was so mean when he first called me and so grouchy, I was just like, but you know what?
• 18:24
  I feel like I'm really good.
• 18:25
  I have always have a ton of elderly clients.
• 18:28
  And I was like, you know what?
• 18:30
  Let's just take a step back, keep working with them.
• 18:32
  And by the end of the case, because he wasn't in pain anymore, he was a lovely client.
• 18:37
  Yeah. So you always just kind of.
• 18:38
  Even if your client is a little grouchy and angry when they call you, maybe there's a reason for that.
• 18:43
  Well, and sometimes they've been burned before, too. Like, I run into that.
• 18:46
  Even in real estate, where people are like, I don't even think I need a realtor.
• 18:50
  I don't want a realtor.
• 18:50
  My last realtor did this.
• 18:52
  And then as I start to work with me or with others, they're like, oh, why?
• 18:57
  Didn't know it could be like this.
• 18:58
  Or oh, I didn't realize you did x, y, z.
• 19:00
  And I'm sure it's the same for you.
• 19:02
  Like in any industry, there's a lot of bad eggs and there's a lot of good ones to you.
• 19:06
  Really.
• 19:07
  It's hard to know how to find the good ones, but when you're able to have a really genuine, simple conversation with your attorney or your realtor and they follow up and they work on that with you.
• 19:17
  Yeah, that's that's typically, you know, when it's easy to speak to them like you're they're your neighbor, but it's in every like.
• 19:23
  Yeah. Yeah. That makes a difference.
• 19:26
  Moving to Oregon because you visited once and fell in love.
• 19:29
  I can respect that, especially if you had wine.
• 19:31
  But let's make sure you don't accidentally buying the wrong zip code.
• 19:34
  Call me first.
• 19:36
  How long do most cases take like do a lot of things actually go to court or do a lot of things get like settled before?
• 19:44
  Well, the process is slow.
• 19:47
  Yeah.
• 19:47
  Fortunately, the legal world is slow because all the rules allow everyone has specific periods of time to respond and do this and that, do their own due diligence and find out.
• 19:58
  Yeah. Solve the problem.
• 19:59
  Like you were saying earlier, be detective.
• 20:01
  Yes, it is slow, but I always like to tell clients at the beginning of their case that for civil cases, which is the area of lie practice civil, not criminal.
• 20:09
  99 I want to say 99.4% of cases settle that are filed, which means 0.6% less than 1% of those cases that are filed actually end up going to trial.
• 20:21
  So most of those cases do resolve out of court.
• 20:24
  And so that's what most of my clients are looking at.
• 20:26
  But again, case by case basis, sometimes a case does have to go to trial because of some weird thing that happened.
• 20:33
  So what are some things that might catch somebody off guard or might surprise them?
• 20:40
  That's like going through the process like a typical client for you.
• 20:44
  I mean, obviously everything's different, but what are some things that you find yourself constantly explaining because people just don't know what they don't know?
• 20:55
  A lot of people get scared when I say, I have to file a lawsuit, and they're like, oh no.
• 20:59
  Do I have to go to court?
• 21:01
  I'm like, well, technically, on paper it looks like you're going to court, but do you physically need to go to court?
• 21:06
  No. Yeah.
• 21:08
  And filing a lawsuit is the best, strongest threat you have to resolving your case.
• 21:17
  And so a lot of clients like. Oh, no.
• 21:17
  Do I have to do that?
• 21:19
  I'm like, well, yeah, typically to get a good resolution because that's the biggest, scariest threat to, say, the insurance company, the railroad company, whatever it is that.
• 21:28
  Oh, no, the public will find out about this and we'll.
• 21:31
  Oh, no. Yeah.
• 21:31
  This is going to be in the news.
• 21:34
  Yeah.
• 21:34
  So if you don't file a lawsuit, it's not a serious and scary for, you know, the person.
• 21:39
  There's not as much in it for them to resolve it.
• 21:41
  But if you file a lawsuit that really brings folks to the table.
• 21:45
  Sure. Yeah.
• 21:46
  Or it indicates to them that you're very serious about what you're trying to resolve.
• 21:54
  You mentioned earlier that your pay structure is different than like a family law.
• 21:58
  So you get paid at the end per the result.
• 22:02
  Or how does that work?
• 22:03
  Exactly. Okay.
• 22:04
  We get paid based on on the results.
• 22:06
  So if there is no recovery made, the client doesn't pay anything.
• 22:10
  But if we do make a recovery, we are paid out of whatever that recovery is.
• 22:15
  And so every also even on top of that, every attorney has their own fee schedule.
• 22:21
  We're typically the same.
• 22:23
  But gosh I've seen some lawyers have really high fee percentages right out of the gate.
• 22:28
  I was like, dang. Okay.
• 22:31
  Yeah, we run into that in real estate too, because everybody sets their own fees and things like that, but also like real estate.
• 22:38
  We don't get paid unless the deal, like unless the house is purchased or the house is sold.
• 22:42
  So there's a lot of work in between.
• 22:45
  How many clients are you normally working with on average?
• 22:50
  It depends.
• 22:51
  I have had times where I've had far more cases than I really should have, just because of, I guess, the hands on way I work with each client.
• 23:03
  So for me to carry 40 to 50 cases is kind of bonkers.
• 23:06
  But anywhere between 30 to 40 at most is okay.
• 23:11
  Okay.
• 23:11
  However, if you have a different kind of practice where all of like big med mal or big railroad, you might even be able to have fewer ones.
• 23:20
  The bigger the cases, maybe the fewer you have, because there's more require more work.
• 23:26
  So it can depend when when you take on clients and like deciding like, oh, I have time or space to take on more.
• 23:34
  Do certain cases need to be further down the line, like they can't all be starting from the same point?
• 23:40
  Like you don't take on 40 people at one time, like because they're staggered.
• 23:43
  So is it like different timelines and things like that?
• 23:46
  Every case has a different timeline, but it's really about how. I wouldn't say invested, but.
• 23:59
  How interested you are in the particular facts of the case, because every case is different.
• 24:06
  And some things, some cases have challenging aspects that lawyers like or don't like. Sure.
• 24:11
  So really, it's really because our clients are coming in staggered that usually everything is not coming to head at the same time.
• 24:19
  So usually, you know, there's cycles.
• 24:22
  There's we call them peaks and valleys.
• 24:22
  Yeah.
• 24:24
  How often throughout a case are you in contact with your client, or is it a lot of like, hey, you'll probably hear from me in a month while I'm doing x, y, z.
• 24:33
  Like, are you talking to them weekly?
• 24:35
  Like how often?
• 24:36
  It depends on what their problem is.
• 24:38
  If we're at the beginning stages and they are, say, fighting through medical care and things like that, and they need some help because they're not getting what they need.
• 24:48
  Or for example, I would say once we get into the discovery phase of a case which is exchanging documents, we'll be talking a lot more.
• 24:58
  And then particularly during if we're getting preparing for a trial, you'll hear from me almost like maybe every day or every other day.
• 25:04
  Just because preparing for trial requires a lot.
• 25:07
  And there you think that you collected everything to be prepared for trial, and you're like, oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you.
• 25:14
  One little questionable, this one tiny thing.
• 25:16
  Yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh.
• 25:18
  So it can be very slow.
• 25:20
  Yeah.
• 25:20
  And then, depending on how close you get to trial, closer you get to trial, the more it ramps up.
• 25:25
  Sure. Yeah. And then post-trial.
• 25:27
  Is there a very much follow up after that or.
• 25:30
  No, it's really just about finalizing documents and then exchanging the funds.
• 25:36
  Sure. Yeah. Like how that's all going.
• 25:38
  I know that you serve your industry in lots of different ways.
• 25:43
  Why do you think it's important to be involved within the industry, outside of what you're doing on the daily practice side?
• 25:50
  I think it shows an investment in the community.
• 25:53
  But then also to some degree, you're investing in future use.
• 25:58
  So that's the future people like yourself that you want to see in your industry so that they can see you out there and be like, oh, so this is a place I can be.
• 26:07
  I do belong there, you know?
• 26:09
  Because when you don't see yourself out in these professional arenas, it's really hard to say.
• 26:14
  You know what? I want to go do that.
• 26:16
  Yeah, well, I'm kind of back to what we were talking about earlier, too.
• 26:19
  Is the collaboration over competition?
• 26:21
  Have you helped be a part of someone's journey?
• 26:24
  And then someday they are doing a case against you or whatever opposing you.
• 26:29
  Like there's still that respect and like, oh, that's okay.
• 26:32
  She helped me in my journey and stuff.
• 26:34
  Yeah. So that's really cool.
• 26:35
  What are some ways that you do serve the industry?
• 26:38
  I love to volunteer.
• 26:40
  So I've done recently some volunteering with the Legal Aid Services of Oregon doing pro bono expungement.
• 26:47
  I also like to volunteer.
• 26:50
  I do a particularly a lot of volunteering with Oregon women lawyers, and now hope to be joining their board of directors to be able to do more programing for women lawyers, but also to create more welcoming spaces so that because Organ Women lawyers is not just about women lawyers.
• 27:08
  Yeah, it's about helping all of the marginalized communities within the legal system be supported and to improve their lives and improve their access to justice and things like that.
• 27:19
  Yeah. No, I totally get that.
• 27:20
  I am heavily involved in the Women's Council of Realtors, and it originally started because there wasn't a seat at the table for women.
• 27:29
  So it kind of started more.
• 27:30
  I was like a collective where they could network and collaborate and come up with programing and things.
• 27:36
  And now people say like there is a seat at the table, so why do you still need that?
• 27:39
  And then it's just like, well, there's still opportunity.
• 27:42
  And so like even though 60% of realtors nationally are women only like 3% on brokerages.
• 27:48
  So there's still like a lack of leadership within women in real estate.
• 27:52
  So I'm sure lawyering is the same because it did start out, you know, male predominant for sure.
• 27:59
  Yeah. And so yeah, that's really cool.
• 28:00
  Why would you take that away particularly like I know in women, in professional organizations, it's not just about showing support and providing areas where we can thrive and feel safe and all that kind of stuff, but it's also about promoting us to the next level, like the Oregon women lawyers, like we help support, but then also prepare women and have CLS and Prep services.
• 28:25
  If you want to apply for judgeship, things like that.
• 28:28
  And they practice and help people through the interview process and all that kind of stuff.
• 28:33
  So our affinity organizations are definitely important.
• 28:37
  Oh for sure.
• 28:38
  We have a spot at the table, simply because we don't want to lose that spot at the table, and we want maybe a bigger spot at the table.
• 28:45
  But also, I don't know about with you guys, but with us, 9% of our memberships meant nationally because it's men that'll like, say, our names and rooms that we're not always in, you know?
• 28:54
  So I don't know if it's the same for you.
• 28:57
  What does that journey look like for lawyers that want to become judge?
• 29:00
  Like, how long is someone normally an attorney before they go that route?
• 29:04
  Or do they always start as an attorney?
• 29:04
  Oh, yeah.
• 29:07
  Because in order to be a judge, you have to be an attorney.
• 29:09
  But is it for a certain amount of time or is it you could get a law degree and go straight?
• 29:14
  Really interesting. Yes.
• 29:16
  So some folks, most people do, you know, practice before they become a judge.
• 29:20
  And I don't see most people ever going from being a clerk for a judge to being a judge.
• 29:25
  Typically you have to have some practice in there, but it really depends on the area of law and then also the need.
• 29:32
  Different counties have different needs.
• 29:35
  For example, they might in one county have a greater need for family law judges rather than general civil judges.
• 29:42
  And so they might have some attorneys that have only practiced for 7 or 8 years becoming judges.
• 29:48
  Or for example, you don't have to worry about the number of years you've practiced.
• 29:54
  For example, there are it's called being judge pro tem, and that is you don't get paid, but you can go be a judge for that county as well, being a judge pro tem and you can decide matters.
• 30:09
  And essentially it's kind of starting your volunteer ship to be a judge.
• 30:13
  And it doesn't guarantee that you will become a judge.
• 30:15
  But definitely having the experience of being a judge pro tem sets you up to become a judge down the road.
• 30:22
  Interesting.
• 30:24
  Is there any vision that you have about becoming a judge, or are you like, it's not really for me?
• 30:31
  I don't. Yeah.
• 30:33
  I never say never, but I can't see it now just because I am obsessed with what I do.
• 30:40
  But maybe in 20 years there, something will happen.
• 30:43
  I'll be like, you know, it sounds like a good idea, but I don't see that right now.
• 30:48
  I'm having too much fun doing what I'm doing.
• 30:50
  And I love trial.
• 30:51
  I mean, as a judge, you obviously get to sit back and watch trials, but I don't know if I can just sit back and watch.
• 30:56
  I want to be like, I think it'd be hard and be like, why didn't you this?
• 31:00
  Or you should have that or something.
• 31:01
  But at the same time, you find that some of those folks like that make the best judges because those judges are objecting and right, making rulings on stuff, you're like, oh, hey, thanks, judge.
• 31:15
  Like because the judge didn't even like what was happening.
• 31:18
  It's like, okay, okay. There are judges that still loved practicing so much, you can tell that they.
• 31:24
  Yeah do.
• 31:26
  And again, forgive me for being green on this.
• 31:28
  Do they get to review cases that much or is it pretty much unfolded to them like during the court case?
• 31:36
  It kind of depends on the county of practicing, because some counties have switched to a process where at the beginning of your case, you're assigned your judge and they will handle all your motions, practice on all the way through trial.
• 31:48
  But then like in Multnomah County, because there's there's so many cases, they just can't do that.
• 31:53
  So typically you'll be assigned a motions judge.
• 31:56
  You'll handle everything up until trial.
• 31:58
  And then at trial you'll get a new judge. Okay.
• 32:01
  And I know that you're licensed in the state of Oregon, so obviously you can practice everywhere.
• 32:05
  But are there certain counties that you find you're doing more work and than others?
• 32:09
  Oh, certainly.
• 32:10
  Just because Multnomah County and Washington County are more populous in Clackamas County.
• 32:14
  Well, that's the area your office is in. Yeah, exactly.
• 32:17
  But no, you can practice anywhere.
• 32:19
  And just it's less likely, for example, for medical malpractice cases to, say, occur in eastern Oregon when there aren't that many hospitals, you know.
• 32:30
  Right. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 32:31
  So yeah, they'll the where the bad things occur.
• 32:35
  That's where you'll find clients.
• 32:37
  And the more people there are, the more likely something bad has happened more frequently.
• 32:40
  So with the practice, I actually just had a conversation come up earlier this week where someone was unsure if it was malpractice or not.
• 32:50
  Where are some resources or what are good questions for those people that are like, I feel like how I was treated was wrong, but they don't actually know of how they were treated, was wrong, or they felt like they weren't heard, but they don't know.
• 33:01
  Would it just be contacting somebody like you to get a better direction, or is there a way to like, look up like certain questions to ask or.
• 33:10
  Sure, there's a little bit of both.
• 33:11
  So yes, you can always call me.
• 33:14
  I've told so many people gone through all the facts and explain why or why not, or at this point in time, no, but if this happens, then yes.
• 33:23
  But if this doesn't happen, then no.
• 33:25
  And so tons of attorneys. I'm one of them.
• 33:28
  But many attorneys will speak to clients through those.
• 33:30
  And so they should just call. Sure.
• 33:32
  Personal injury attorneys handle medical negligence.
• 33:35
  Not not all personal injury attorneys handle it.
• 33:37
  But a lot of us do. And we all will.
• 33:43
  Don't mind doing those consultations.
• 33:45
  And, you know, is free.
• 33:47
  You don't pay for it. Well, and I think that is the biggest myth.
• 33:50
  It's like I don't think very many people realize that they have no idea.
• 33:53
  Yeah.
• 33:53
  So including the person I was talking to this week, it was about his kiddo was in the hospital and he felt like.
• 33:59
  And they transferred him from one hospital to another.
• 34:01
  And he felt like this hospital didn't really communicate with this hospital and some of the information and match up.
• 34:06
  And I was like, oh, well, you should ask about that.
• 34:09
  That sounds suspicious.
• 34:10
  And he was like, I don't have time or money for that.
• 34:12
  And I'm like, but what if your son was like a 30 minute call?
• 34:16
  But he didn't realize, like, I think he was thinking like, I don't have a couple hundred bucks to pick your brain for 15 minutes or whatever.
• 34:22
  So I love us getting that message out there.
• 34:24
  Heck yeah, call me guys. It's okay.
• 34:26
  Like you can call it. Send me an email.
• 34:29
  There's a little fillable form on my website.
• 34:31
  By all means, fill it out. It'll come to me.
• 34:33
  But the big thing in medical negligence, you can ask yourself, is if this doctor had or medical provider had not done X, would I have avoided what's happening to you now?
• 34:50
  And if the answer is no, because of all these other things could have caused it to, then maybe not.
• 34:56
  Yeah, and a lot of people, and it's unfortunate.
• 34:58
  It's like the law does not compensate.
• 35:00
  Coulda woulda should have.
• 35:00
  Sure or coulda woulda.
• 35:03
  Because the lady called me, she's like, but I could have died.
• 35:07
  And I was like, I know, and this sounds really, really callous, but it didn't.
• 35:11
  And I'm so sorry, but that's not how the law works.
• 35:14
  And like, I totally understand that was horrible and it should not have happened.
• 35:18
  But unfortunately, the way our, the only way our justice system works for personal injury is we can't go back and right wrongs, but we can write a check.
• 35:28
  And so if you did not die, you did not actually suffer the damages to receive a check.
• 35:33
  So it's anyway, I feel terrible, but that's kind of how it works.
• 35:37
  But the law is the law, right?
• 35:39
  I mean, there's only so much you can do with it.
• 35:41
  And that's why I was asking.
• 35:42
  And I think the opposite kind of, of what we were just saying is so many people are like, well, nothing did happen.
• 35:48
  So should I even bother asking the questions?
• 35:51
  Right.
• 35:51
  But in this case, I was like, but he's still like seeking treatment, so don't you want to just make sure everything's on the up and up?
• 35:57
  Why not? You know so.
• 35:59
  Or think of some things in the future.
• 36:00
  Or for example, depending on what your issue is.
• 36:04
  But we're personal injury lawyers.
• 36:06
  We know who the good doctors are.
• 36:07
  Who knows what your problem is.
• 36:09
  We might be able to say, you know what?
• 36:11
  You might want to consider going to this hospital or this provider because they do take patients seriously and they do care for folks just because we know who the good doctors and good facilities are out there.
• 36:23
  So we can even help, maybe point you toward more helpful medical providers.
• 36:26
  Even if you don't have a case, that's okay.
• 36:29
  The bottom line is helping you through your problem, and that doesn't mean you have a lawsuit.
• 36:33
  It just means trying to help you bridge the gaps in or just getting clarity.
• 36:38
  Yeah, yeah. And help with your problem.
• 36:41
  And you know, we do that all the time.
• 36:43
  It's not a big ask. For me.
• 36:45
  Everything you do has to be so confidential.
• 36:48
  Is it hard for you?
• 36:49
  And you're with family and friends and they mention certain hospitals or insurance companies, like on the inside, or you're like, like, I wish I could tell you something, but.
• 36:57
  Or it just doesn't phase you.
• 36:59
  Oh, no, it's because you can say stuff.
• 37:01
  Oh you can.
• 37:02
  So we are 100% confidential. Absolutely.
• 37:05
  All of our clients information.
• 37:07
  No one should be able to know who you are representing the facts of their case.
• 37:11
  But for example, if there's a hospital that's, you know, I like to call them frequent fliers.
• 37:17
  There's a lot of bad things happen there.
• 37:17
  And it just seems like, geez.
• 37:20
  Why do all the bad things happen at the hospital?
• 37:22
  I definitely tell people, oh, you do okay.
• 37:24
  Oh heck yeah. Or I don't know if you're allowed to or not.
• 37:27
  I'm not releasing anything confidential. Sure.
• 37:29
  I'm. You know, I'm not saying Joe Blow did this to this other person.
• 37:33
  I'm just saying, like, I don't think that might not have a good experience or that doesn't surprise me that that's happened.
• 37:40
  Right? That's the guy you want to do your back surgery?
• 37:43
  Maybe not.
• 37:44
  Maybe try this person instead, you know?
• 37:48
  Oh, okay.
• 37:48
  Just and you can say my whether you want to put it in positive or negative, just say, I know my clients and other people have had good surgical outcomes with this doctor, and that's why I'm sending you there.
• 38:00
  I think it's great.
• 38:01
  Yeah, that's a great response, I love If you love hearing how I talk to Oregon business owners and community leaders on this podcast, just wait until you see how I work as a real estate agent.
• 38:11
  Buying, selling, relocating.
• 38:13
  I do it all.
• 38:14
  Don't do it without me. Let me help.
• 38:16
  Reach out today.
• 38:18
  that.
• 38:19
  Is there anything else that you would want to share that might be a myth to the general public about being an attorney or the whole system?
• 38:29
  It's slow and it can be infuriating.
• 38:32
  But at the end of the day, what I think a lot of people don't realize about personal injury, they think, oh, people are just being litigious.
• 38:40
  And it's like, no.
• 38:42
  Or that we're ambulance chasers. Yeah.
• 38:45
  No. Right.
• 38:46
  The reality is, is that in the United States, we don't have the social safety nets to care for people if catastrophic bad things happen to them.
• 38:56
  Most people don't have disability insurance.
• 39:00
  They don't necessarily have a spouse or another person that can help them support them through their income, loss of income, all these kinds of things.
• 39:08
  If someone gets hurt catastrophically, maybe at most, what someone has is the ability to apply for Social Security disability and then health insurance potentially provided they don't lose their job.
• 39:21
  Right.
• 39:21
  And so how do you survive the rest of your life of your catastrophically injured?
• 39:26
  Well, that's with a lawyer going after the person that caused it, you know, and so a lot of people just really think we're litigious and they don't realize, like, no folks would be homeless potentially, you know, because people do potentially lose their houses when they get catastrophically injured because they don't have the income to pay that mortgage.
• 39:44
  They do get divorced.
• 39:46
  Things like that do happen and all.
• 39:49
  Literally the only line of defense you have is a lawyer to represent you.
• 39:55
  That's it.
• 39:56
  Is there any advice that you could give?
• 39:58
  Your statement just now made me think of this like, oh, I wonder if when they meet with you and you ask them about their insurance and there are certain things they didn't have covered or didn't have enough coverage, like is there any advice you would give?
• 40:10
  Like, hey, when you're setting up your auto insurance, always make sure to have this.
• 40:13
  Or hey, when you have health insurance, always make sure you have this.
• 40:16
  Because a lot of times, especially now, it's so expensive.
• 40:18
  People are just taking the bare minimum insurance that they can because they don't want to pay for it out of pocket, but might not realize that one thing being left off could really impact them in a time of need.
• 40:29
  Is there anything like that that you could speak to?
• 40:31
  I would say, thankfully in the state, if you're in living in the state of Oregon, thankfully your auto insurance policy automatically comes with uninsured or underinsured motorist benefits.
• 40:41
  Which means if this person that hit you doesn't have the coverage or has no insurance, you can sue your own insurance carrier to be compensated for your losses, your damages.
• 40:52
  But if you were in the state of Washington, you can wave those benefits and you should not ever do that.
• 41:00
  You need to have personal injury protection benefits, which is medical benefits, and you need to have uninsured underinsured motorist benefits because if the person that hits you is uninsured or has no benefits whatsoever, you need to have your own protection in place.
• 41:18
  So definitely do that.
• 41:19
  And then to the best of your ability, pay for the highest policy coverage you can afford.
• 41:23
  I'm not saying get $1 million policy, but whatever.
• 41:26
  You can afford the highest limits because again, if that person is uninsured and you lost your leg or you, you know, needed spine surgery, right?
• 41:37
  And all you have is a $25,000 policy, that's all you get is $25,000 and you have $100,000 potentially in medical bills.
• 41:47
  Yeah.
• 41:47
  So you need to have your own protection in place because you can't trust that the person that's hurting you will.
• 41:54
  Yeah.
• 41:55
  Well, and how often does the car insurance and the health insurance like because I'm assuming most people would be like, well, 25 is covered by my car insurance, but then my health insurance will pick up the rest.
• 42:05
  And that's not always the case either.
• 42:07
  Like, no, because they have a statutory right to be reimbursed for anything they pay toward a personal injury.
• 42:13
  And some of them will say oftentimes the insurance carriers, thankfully, after the injury happens, even though it's going to be life long, they pick up the bills after the case is settled and they've been reimbursed.
• 42:24
  But I know some of them have been trying to recently discontinue care completely or discontinue coverage for care that is related to the car crash, even after the case is settled and they've been reimbursed.
• 42:39
  Now, the health insurance carrier doesn't want to pay for anything related to that shoulder because they're like, well, that was from the crash.
• 42:44
  Like, we don't pay for that.
• 42:46
  That's your problem.
• 42:47
  Oh my goodness. But so that's scary. Yeah.
• 42:50
  So you cannot always guarantee that your health insurance will play ball well.
• 42:57
  And that's why I ask those questions because I think that's important for people to know.
• 43:01
  Like your car insurance does need to cover so much because your health insurance probably won't not, probably won't.
• 43:08
  It's just that they can be extremely difficult to provide coverage.
• 43:13
  Okay.
• 43:14
  And so that's why you want to have it just in case.
• 43:16
  Sure.
• 43:17
  It usually does work and they usually do provide coverage.
• 43:21
  But the other thing is that usually for auto crashes and things like that, people want to get alternative forms of care like chiropractic, acupuncture, massage and health insurance doesn't always cover those.
• 43:32
  So that's the auto insurance does.
• 43:35
  Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, yeah.
• 43:37
  I didn't realize that, like, health insurance wouldn't but auto does.
• 43:40
  Some policies do.
• 43:41
  Now a lot of policies have improved in covering alternative forms of medicine, but not all of them do.
• 43:46
  So a lot of my clients, when their auto insurance medical benefits run out, their care runs out.
• 43:52
  Oh yeah, because their health insurance doesn't pay for acupuncture or doesn't pay for a massage.
• 43:57
  Will you tell everybody how to get in touch with you if they want to reach out to you via email, your website, phone call?
• 44:04
  Sure.
• 44:05
  By all means, you can always email us at info at k t office.
• 44:12
  And that's the initial k, the initial t. Yes.
• 44:15
  Thank you.
• 44:16
  And then you can always call us at (503) 608-4500 for consultation or if you have any questions.
• 44:25
  And like she said to you can always reach out.
• 44:27
  And if she doesn't practice what you need help with, you're happy to give them a referral and pass them along.
• 44:32
  Absolutely.
• 44:33
  And if those referrals suck and you need more, call me back.
• 44:37
  Well, and let her know for sure, because then that's good feedback.
• 44:40
  That's the other thing I do appreciate is when I do give out a referral, if you hated them and they were terrible, tell me.
• 44:45
  Yeah, because I need to know that x y z this this attorney is a bit of a grouch and maybe not the best person to be referring to.
• 44:52
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:54
  Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 44:56
  I know that you're very busy, ladies.
• 44:58
  I appreciate you giving me this time.
• 44:59
  I'd like to give you one more cheers.
• 45:01
  Before we go.
• 45:02
  Thank you for having me.
• 45:02
  Yeah. My pleasure.
• 45:04
  And thank you for watching or listening.
• 45:07
  I can't wait to see you next week. Cheers.