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Family Identity · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  what we say at family ideas where family identity is strong, peer pressure is weak. But where family identity is weak, peer pressure is strong. In fact, it's insurmountable.
• 0:11
  And that doesn't just go for our teenagers at school and on the playground for our younger ones. And that goes for us as parents. That goes for me as a husband and a dad. That goes for my wife. Peer pressure is real. But when we understand who we are and when we can grasp onto something that is identity and say, no, no, no, no, no. I have strength because I can do these things. Hey, that builds confidence.
• 0:38
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family.
• 0:57
  Hey guys, welcome back to the Family Teams podcast. I'm here today with Derek England, and Derek is part of an organization called Family ID out of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. So Derek, thanks for jumping on the podcast with me. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah. So I'm excited. Derek and I were chatting a couple of weeks ago. We had a mutual friend and I got to talk to Greg Gunn as well. I think he's the founder of Family ID and
• 1:25
  We just had a great conversation and there's so much synergy. And I was like, okay, like, I'd love to hear the backstory. Like, how did this organization start? What do you guys do? And as we, as Derek is kind of leading us into the story, I want to like, try to like understand how this.
• 1:42
  dovetails with family teams, maybe areas to where, um, where there are different strengths in these organizations. But I feel like, yeah, I just want, I want you guys all to get to hear what they're doing and where it came from. So I got really inspired and, um, I wanted to go a layer deeper. So yeah, thanks for doing this with me, Derek. I just want to start. Yeah. Um, I'd love for, for maybe you can introduce yourself, um, and then we'll dive into the organization.
• 2:07
  Absolutely. Um, so named Eric, obviously I've got a wife, Gina, she and I have been married for 20 years last November. Uh, and we have two incredible kiddos, um, 15 year old daughter Sawyer and a 14 year old son named Jack. Um, and so that we're us for no more. Uh, we're a nice square family, you know, um, two boys, two girls. We, we cover all the bases and, um,
• 2:35
  We are truly blessed to have and walk through and walk out of family identity that we got. We received 12 years of sales through walking through family ID. Awesome. It was 2012. Our kids were little, two and three years old.
• 2:52
  And Gina and I both come from divorced parents. And so as we're raising our kids, we don't know exactly what are all the best practices, what are the pitfalls or landmines to stay away from. And we just knew, hey, I know some stuff over here I don't want. How do I get all the stuff that I do want over here? And then I ran into Greg Gunn, who started and founded Family ID. Yeah.
• 3:17
  And Greg founded it in 1997 and has devoted 25, 28 years towards building, developing, and growing this organization. It came out of his career.
• 3:31
  church at the time. His pastor went away through a weekend. And when he came back, Greg asked him, hey, where were you? And he had been on his annual family planning retreat. And Greg was a leader inside a financial organization, led many, many, many people. But the thought of having a family planning retreat was nowhere in his brain. Just like so many of us,
• 3:56
  It's easy and it makes sense. I mean, this is what family teams does as well. It's so easy to put it. Goals, directives, KPIs, quality goals, mission, vision, all that stuff can work. But we never translate it over again.
• 4:12
  Um, so Greg did that. He launched it in his Sunday school class. It continued to grow. Um, and then in 2010, he went full time and, uh, 501c3 contribution supported organization. He took it full time.
• 4:28
  And launched and has been doing it ever since we, Gina and I got introduced to it in 2012, walk through it, understood, okay, this is who we are. As an England, we know that we are called to be a beacon of light and a pillar of strength to a dark and grounded world. That's the calling on our lives and what we're called to live out through five core bodies.
• 4:52
  Awesome. And so is, is that, uh, the kind of often the entry point like that you begin to develop a family calling, like try to clarify what that is and then, and then some values. Yeah, for the most part, that's the way it has been, um, historically through family ID. And that was kind of as Greg's been growing it, that is how he structured his ministry was kind of seminar or workshop based, uh, going to churches, organizations, uh,
• 5:20
  Spending an afternoon or a weekend walking through and unpacking the different layers of family and how people do things or should do things or don't want to do things and coming out with mission, vision, and core values. Okay. In the last couple of years, and we just launched this year, January 2024, we're going to be able to do this.
• 5:43
  what we call the family assessment. It's the family ID assessment. And what we found is with Craig's experience and my experience that there are what we call four core principles in a family, family identity, family purpose, and,
• 6:00
  family direction, and then application, identity, purpose, direction, and application. And where a family is strongest to weakest and how that sequence works out from strongest to weakest creates some real tendencies and commonalities in families. And so we started, you know, drawing circles and finding commonalities. And then we put real cute names on them.
• 6:30
  That we kind of put families into categories and not one is better than the other. Okay. Right. It's not, it's not a scaled thing. Um, but you might be a resilient family or, uh, trailblazing family, focused family. And it's, it is based on your sequencing of identity, purpose, direction, and application, which one's strongest, which one's weakness. Right.
• 6:54
  And then we give essentially a SWOT analysis for your family, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. And that has become Jeremy, the real front door to family ID because I'm sure just like family teams, Hey, nobody wakes up at two o'clock in the morning and says, you know what? I need some family core values. That's what I need. Right.
• 7:21
  So taking people from unaware to aware has been our biggest struggle for 20 years. I've been on the team for five. And so this has become a real good front door to take people from unaware to aware about living intentionally in their family. That's great.
• 7:38
  So they come online, they can, they can jump in, they can take an assessment. And as they, as it kind of figures out where they're at, it begins to identify, okay, this is, we've seen these 16 types of families. You guys roughly fall into this category. And, and, and once you discover that type, what is, what is the strength of that? What, what is the value of learning that about your family?
• 8:02
  Well, so then not only can you take it, but you can invite your other family members to take it. And it puts together and combines all your results and gives you a full 360 view of your family type. And then, hey, you have common language. You can identify strengths and weaknesses. And if you want to put confidence and clarity behind your family type.
• 8:23
  Then you can move into next phase, which is what we call a family ID masterclass, which is a walking through the process of putting into writing identity, purpose, direction, and then putting a plan on how to apply those things in and through your family. And there's a book about it. I've heard pastors say it all the time, right? When you know who you are, then you'll know what to do.
• 8:49
  And so that's the real goal is when you know you are a resilient family and your easiest or your strength is to be high purpose related or high vision related. Hey, you're thinking long or but you might need to work to develop a little bit of relationships in the family. And then you can go to work and developing that to balance it out a little bit.
• 9:12
  Yes. That sounds like my family need to constantly be like, let's just live into what's going to look like 300 years from now. Oh yeah. It was diapers to change or there's actual parts to like shepherd, you know? Um, I'm curious what, who's going to fold the laundry with the laundry. Yes. Uh, so passe, but, um, I'd love to hear. So about your family, Derek. So, so what is the England family type and what, what is, how has that helped you guys in particular?
• 9:40
  Well, we are the harmonious family, which is highest in identity and lowest in direction. And so we are very relational. I mean, one of our family core values is being radically protective of quality time.
• 9:59
  And so as a result, Hey, we're very relationship driven and we want to make sure that there is harmony and unity in and through our family. One of the other core values is we have enduring family unity. And so those I believe have shaped us into a harmonious family. And, um,
• 10:19
  Jeremy, I'll tell you this. Don't, this is between you and me. Okay. Don't, don't let the cat out of the neck. But honestly, I've got the greatest family in the world. And my two kids, there's 13 months apart. Yeah.
• 10:32
  And they're best friends. They don't fight. They don't bicker. They don't talk back. They don't throw fits. It's incredible just how wonderful they are. And I enjoy spending time with my kids. I joke and say, why wouldn't I? They're a perfect mix between my two favorite people in the world, me and my wife. And so, of course, I want to spend time with them. But it is...
• 11:00
  recognizing that we are a harmonious family and relationship is easiest and natural for us. And we've got to push ourselves in let's take extra work to identify some goals, to live on purpose. How does God want us to live this out and impact his kingdom on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis with some goals out there and, and let's make it happen. So you guys, you guys just sort of in your flesh, you could just enjoy the harmoniousness of the four of you. And then, well,
• 11:30
  And then maybe, okay, there's a world out there that actually needs this. And so that helps you guys. Okay, how do we overcome that and make sure that we are setting goals and figuring out how to make an impact?
• 11:40
  That's exactly right. And in that, I can't think off the top of my head, I probably shouldn't, but in that, we give a PDF overview of each family type, and in that, it has threats, right? Like what could be discernment could distort into judgment, or what could be harmony could become passive in the way you're saying it, you know? And so those are some things just to be aware of.
• 12:09
  and live out on purpose and make sure, Hey, well, are we getting too close to that line? Cause we don't want to get, we don't want to cross that line. Let's, let's be aware. All right. So help me out. Um, I don't know if you could type me in, uh, without me taking the assessment, but, but, but if somebody, somebody who, who's leading a family that's very high in that direction and application, you know, what, what is there, is there a type that sort of lives in that, in that quadrant or, you know, what, what do you sense that I might be dealing with here?
• 12:38
  Um, well you could be, um, let's see, let me look at our types here. I would probably say there's driven family, which is, um, high application. So it's easy for you to create next steps and go, go, go. But probably I would think you're a direction based family, which is impactful, resilient, strategic, or trailblazing. I'm going to guess impactful.
• 13:03
  So John, one of the guys at Family ID that helped us create this and refine it, he and his wife were an impactful family, which means it was easy for them to think about how they were going to impact God's kingdom.
• 13:20
  Um, but they weren't always doing it together. And so it was, Hey, no, we're going to go impact over here. And I still call the impact over here. And so you end up with the body conquer thing. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. We've had that problem. And then tell me a little bit, what, what, what is the, um, what are some of the elements of the profile of the strategic family? Curious. What that were. Yeah. All right. What's the strategic? Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:44
  that that's kind of, I live in, in that world primarily personally and, uh, leave my family that direction, although I don't know that they always go with me. So, but when we're together, like, I'm like, let's, let's do something. No one. So yeah, I'm curious. Yeah. What, what are some of the strengths or weaknesses of that one? Okay. Um, uh, the strategic family is direction, then purpose, then identity, then application. Okay. Um,
• 14:10
  A strategic family, you excel in planning for the future and navigating the best path forward, showcasing a remarkable gift for aligning your compass with purpose. Your family's strength lies in coordinating intentional strategies for both the present and the future, seamlessly working together with logic and critical thinking to analyze situations. Yeah, that sounds like us. Yeah.
• 14:34
  So it is, right? Hey, some of the cautions there is analytical approach could become over analysis. Yes. Decisiveness could become impulsiveness. Hmm.
• 14:47
  Or unmet expectations could lead to control dynamics of trying to lock everything down so that it meets meets and fits all of your expectations. Okay, totally. That's good. Yeah, that's so I just yeah, I want to give people a flavor for for the assessment and what it could look like to actually start to understand what kind of family you have now.
• 15:09
  one of the things that I find really interesting about this idea that, you know, we have these 16 types, um, is I think it's difficult for, for people often to think about family this way, right. To think about, okay, families are different there. Everywhere I go, there's really this, there's this weird, almost bias that families are either, um, impossible to type in any way, or they're all the same. We're all shooting for the same ideal. Um, um,
• 15:37
  It's difficult. And one of the things I like about tools like this, even though I'm sure that, you know, there's no such thing as a perfect model, but models that allow, allow you to like converge on these common themes really help us get past those two extremes, those sort of biases that I think most people have, which is like,
• 15:54
  Every family is totally unique and we can't relate to anything that might be, you know, that might actually give us insight into how we can collectively think about these things as a family. But then, then you get incredibly uniform, like we're, you know, you can only have a family that does this or like that. So talk to me a little bit about what, what is the impact of, of understanding that there is this level of variety, but also enough clarity that we can group families together and help them out in that, in this way.
• 16:21
  Yeah, so what we say at Family ID is where family identity is strong, peer pressure is weak. But where family identity is weak, peer pressure is strong. In fact, it's insurmountable.
• 16:33
  And that doesn't just go for our teenagers at school and peer pressure, you know, on the playground for our younger ones. And that goes for us as parents. It goes for me as a husband and a dad. It goes for my wife. Is peer pressure is real. But when we understand who we are and when we can grasp onto something that is identity and say, no, no, no, no.
• 16:58
  I am a strategic family and I have strength because I can do these things. Hey, that builds confidence. Jack's 14 and plays baseball. And I tell him all the time, hey, buddy, when you're at the plate, 80% of it's confidence. In life, in life, 80% of it is confidence. Right.
• 17:18
  And so when you have that family identity and confident that you are in this family on purpose, for a purpose, hey, that creates this stickiness and this bond that now, now because we're a family and because I believe God created us before the foundations of the world, and it's not outside of his sovereignty to know who he's going to put in each family.
• 17:44
  Yes. Together, right? And so he did it on purpose for a collective purpose. When we know that and have confidence in that, now we can go live that out. Now there's something putting us together a whole lot more than just living in the same house. We're a strategic family. What do we want to be strategic about? Yeah.
• 18:05
  Put some things out there. I'll tackle them down. I'll knock through walls to go through it because we're a strategic family and that's what we do. Yeah, that's good. So it gives you that confidence to push through that peer pressure that says, no, we're all going to look the same. We're all trying to...
• 18:22
  trying to hit, no, like guys, our family looks like this and it's okay for it. You know, one of the things I love about that too, is it does dial down the comparison. I think families comparing to each other, the envy, if you're struggling in certain areas, well, that family is not struggling. Like I thought my, well, yeah, because you're different. And so looking at those threats, your, your weaknesses might be the strengths of another family and vice versa. And so that comparison game can be really dangerous. So I love that. You know, one of the things that we're
• 18:51
  You know, family teams is, you know, we see that in the Bible, God designs family to have multi-generational connections. So my parents live with us. They work with us. Our kids, you know, we're in businesses together, starting ministries together. There's, you know, there's separation, you know, appropriate amounts of separation, but also a lot of teamwork.
• 19:10
  And so we're trying to find that sweet spot. We've lived into, as a culture, this idea that, you know, every generation is you just hit the reset button and there is no connection. There's no, you know, substantial help from one generation to the next. And we spend a lot of time in the Middle East where you see much stronger family structures that have a multi-generational component.
• 19:31
  But I wonder what the family ID looks like across generations, because I can see even now with like I have two married kids. And, you know, as I watch the, you know, our in-laws, you know, my son-in-law, my daughter-in-law enter the family and bringing a completely new set of gifts. And then, of course, my kids, they have totally different gifts than me or April.
• 19:54
  And I can see it. So would you guys recommend that like every specific family branch take the ID and then maybe what's happening is you could end up with like a family team with like four or five types? Like, is that how this looks? Okay. You talked about how this looks multi-generationally.
• 20:12
  Oh, man. Jeremy, you're speaking my language right now because Greg and I were sitting in the office probably two years ago. And one of the greatest questions we get, whether it's seminars or whether we are one on one with a family or a couple generations of a family, is they say, hey, how do I put my vision down to the next future generations? Mm hmm.
• 20:35
  And so we were wrestling with that question, praying through it, making sure it. And then it hit us in an instant of, oh, we're looking at it all wrong.
• 20:47
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• 21:19
  And we are not called to push our vision down on future generations because when vision is pushed down on generations, we think or we believe it results in three things. And that is one, resistance.
• 21:33
  Right. No, no, no, no. I don't want that. Two, resignation. Because how many times have you heard or have we heard, whatever, dad, you're just going to do it your own way. And I'm just going to completely resign. Right. Or three, resentment. Hey, there's bitterness and resentment because it feels like control when things are pushed down.
• 21:57
  Yeah. The resentment can happen. Yes. Hey, if you go to this school, I can, I will financially participate. If you'll buy this house or live in this area, I can help support you here. Or if you do this job. Um, and so when you talk about branches, that's where I think we flip it on the head because, um,
• 22:14
  Our calling is, think about a family tree, is not to push vision down, but our calling is to push every branch up towards its calling and towards the sun, S-O-N, right? Is to push it up based on who we are and our core values. So yes, when you have a new family inside your family tree, these are two unique people
• 22:42
  who are being joined together. And that dynamic is brand new, never before seen family dynamic. And I hope that they are close to the harmonious family when my kids get married, but maybe a step or two off so they can add a unique flavor or personality inside the culture of the family tree. And so I do believe that,
• 23:04
  that we can see a larger multi-generational family, or as we had in our previous conversation, right? The house of prior being multiple different family types, but all helping to push each other up and every successive branch up towards success and their calling and their purpose in life.
• 23:26
  Yeah. Yeah. This, this is definitely the, the edge of our, our kind of current thinking and, and processing as well. So I think, you know, because we have now new branches coming online of the family and, and,
• 23:43
  we have this really strong family culture that we've developed. Um, it's like there is, there is some sweet spot between this sort of controlling pushing vision that you described that I think does create a lot of resentment and frustration. Um, but also like passing on the values, you know, the culture of the family so that there is continuity. And sometimes that continuity is a mission. Like I could be called to a mission and there could be a branch of the family that, um,
• 24:10
  It feels called that mission. And then there's other branches that are, I think, just God's given them new vision. And I think that part of what we want to do is let vision go both ways. You know, my daughter, Sydney, who's 20, she has a passion for Korea, right? We spend a lot of time in the Middle East, but this is like something that's super exciting to her. And it's been going for two, three, four years, I guess now. And so, you know, she's going to head to Korea and, you know, be a part of a program there.
• 24:40
  And so we're constantly praying, okay, God, what are you bringing into our family? How are you expanding this family vision? So I think that seeing that potentially new branches will have elements of that original DNA, but they're bringing in their own DNA. And so we have to figure out this sweet spot so that we...
• 25:01
  We're not resetting every generation. We're working together. We can do common assignments together, but not controlling or creating some kind of heavy expectation, using resources to try to limit our kids' ability to do what God's actually called them to do.
• 25:20
  That is a really challenging thing to figure out, how to get that right. I was just watching this amazing, so I watched a play last night. My wife and I went to this play called The Chosen. It's not related to the TV show that is about Jesus, but it's a book by Chaim Potok.
• 25:37
  And it's an incredible story. Both April and I read the book. We've loved the book. There's a movie as well, but this play was an incredible depiction of it. And it really is the story of two fathers and two sons. Both fathers are trying to push their vision onto their sons. One is like, it's incredibly specific. We tell our kids all the time, we joke, there's this line in important, here's a who, where the father says,
• 26:05
  You can be whatever kind of mayor you want to be. It's like, my division's sky high. It's like, you have to be a mayor. And this is a similar situation. This rabbi is telling his son, you must be the next rabbi. Like it is everyone who's in this family, the firstborn son is always the next rabbi. Well, that is like, you know, anathema to Western individualism.
• 26:26
  And, and it was clear this kid was not built to be the next rabbi. And so, um, and so he, all he, so all the pressures were just coming to bear on this ultra Orthodox Jewish family. And it was just like watching this, this thing get cranked up in intensity and the whole crowd is like, we're crying. It's just like so intense. You could tell the father really, really, really loves his son. Um, but, but he has this very controlling, very specific vision.
• 26:51
  for the son's whole life is planned out, basically when he was born, including his wife and everything else. And the son is just not built for it. And it's like just sitting there in the tension for two hours watching this thing play out. Yet in Jewish families, you have this incredible continuity generationally. There's this moment in the play where the father comes to the son and acknowledges, look, you're not going to be the next rabbi. I understand that.
• 27:17
  But can you carry on these values of our family? Yes, father, I will do that. And I was like, that's the moment everybody just like lost it because they found that exact thing we're talking about. Right. Yeah. They found that sweet spot as hard as it was for that family. So, yeah, I love I love trying to figure that out. I'm glad you guys have thought through that and trying to figure that out is so important. It is. I mean.
• 27:42
  Your family is bigger than just you, but it's better because of you, right? Just like your family tree is bigger than just one individual leaf, if you represent a leaf, but without any leaves, the whole thing dies. And so I love that. Can you at least carry on these values? And if you think about our trees and branches building upon branches, hey, you are going to have...
• 28:09
  substantial core values that a large log for lack of better words sticks out and has hundreds of thousands of branches building off of it. Um, and still within the same tree, you might have a different value over here that has hundreds of thousands of values. And it's, um,
• 28:28
  Yeah. You could be any kind of mayor you want to be. That one's stuck in me. That one's stuck in me. I love that movie. Oh my gosh. It's, it's, it's, it's a, the same exact kind of tension. I, we love watching. There's so many good books and movies with this question. And I think that one of the problems is we are getting this wrong.
• 28:47
  And oftentimes it's a generational like a seesaw effect. So you have one generation and there's just, it was very rigid. You will be this, we are passing the business down to you, whether you like it or not. You know, I mean, you will live here. You will have this many children. It's like.
• 29:03
  just way too, way too specific vision from, from some kind of, uh, the, the patriarch of the family. And then, and then you have the complete abdication of the next generation where it's like, we're not going to give our kids anything. I'm going to cut you off at 18. Good luck, you know, like with your life. And there's, we're not going to get like, there's no vision. There's no, there's no connection. There's no culture. There's no identity. And, and, and that's what I
• 29:28
  identity, because I think there's elements of identity. I don't know if you guys dig into this. I'm curious. Like, so there's identity in terms of how the individuals of the family are built, but then there's also a historic identity, which part of what this play was attempting to, to begin to, um, to, to describe, uh, and, and within Jewish families, you see this so deep, like, like a lot of where the identity comes from is that around the Shabbat table, you're hearing about, you know, you know,
• 29:55
  10, 20, 30, 40, 50 generations of the family and stories and what we went through. And then, you know, your great, great, great, great grandfather did this and grandmother did this and all this. And so it's just, you're a 12 year old kid going just infused with all this identity that's coming from the past, which, which carries with it, you know, values like resilience or like things that your family went through that are just, they're being basically installed into you through family storytelling.
• 30:23
  So yeah, how have you guys seen the impact of the past generation, especially because in this culture, many of us don't have any idea where we came from. I mean, we can't, you know, it's just like, it's like a blank slate back there. Yeah. How have you guys interacted with the idea of the past or roots? I think it's exactly like you're saying. I mean, understanding that you are part of the bigger picture and understanding that you are part of a common picture in one big thing.
• 30:53
  Um, so, uh, I had, I'll take it to chicken. Um, I had a buddy who his full job was to go open up franchises, local franchises of a chicken fast food restaurant across the country. And I asked him, I said, okay, David, okay. But how does that work? Because I am sure that
• 31:12
  The the king's chicken here in Oklahoma City has a completely different culture than the store in Baton Rouge or Denver, Chicago or wherever it is. And he goes, oh, no, no, no, Derek, you think too small. The Oklahoma City store has a different personality.
• 31:31
  but they all have this part of the same culture. And I think that's the connection there is understanding, Hey, when we are part of something that's bigger than us, multi-generation, 30, 40, 50 generations, when we're grafted into the Israelites, I mean, we're the, we're the ones that are grafted in. They're not grafted in us. You know, we're grafted into this gigantic story that, that laces throughout the entire Bible. Hey, what,
• 32:01
  Our family can have a personality, but it's all carried through values of a similar culture. And I think that's how we can think of it. We don't always. I don't always. But I think we can. Okay. Different personality, but all the same culture. Yeah.
• 32:22
  I think those differentiations are really important to explore. I like that because you're going to get, you don't want to reset culture every generation if possible. There are hard won lessons that a generation can win and know that it's not just going to die with them. What good is that? This is the reason why I think a lot of people become obsessed with sports or work or anything else besides the family because it feels like things that are in the family don't last.
• 32:51
  But, you know, when you go to these multigenerational families and you see the amount of impact that these stories have, then you can you can say, oh, there is a there is a way to transmit DNA, not just physical, but the culture, cultural down the generations. And I think one of the things we've discovered is if you encode those into specific rhythms, they have a much higher degree of likelihood.
• 33:16
  to continue multi-generationally. Fortunately, now that we've lived as a human species for long enough, you can look at the cultures where this is happening. And I really don't know of a better example than the Jewish culture with some of the actual rhythms. And you see God himself installing that DNA all the way back in the Old Testament saying, celebrate this Passover. And when you celebrate it,
• 33:43
  And your son asks, why do we do this and this and this? Tell him this and this and this. He's like giving them direct. This is how you pass on DNA. You create these rhythms. You repeat them on some kind of regular weekly or annual basis. And this initiates a conversation with the next generation. And then as you have that conversation, these cultural values get passed on and get imbibed by that generation. So that process is, I think, really important.
• 34:12
  Which is a win, right? You talk about, hey, it's easy to get involved in sports and work. Well, it's also really easy in those areas to look at a sphorabore, figuratively, and to know if you're winning or losing. Yes. Oh, hey, I'm moving the needle here or I'm not. I know if we're winning or losing. And we all like to win. Even if it's at a game of chess or checkers, we want to win. And so...
• 34:37
  By defining what those wins are for a family, even if it is rhythmic or cultural wins, understanding that is good. The Shabbat is a great example. Hey, a Jewish family that has sat down for zero Shabbat dinners in the last 12 months, but say it's important for us to have those meals on a consistent basis—
• 35:01
  Hey, there's a really easy slowboard there now that you've identified it and there's a gap that we need to close. And so whatever those cultural, I believe, whatever those cultural or relational or spiritual goals or wins are, if we can just identify them, then we can hit them with a dart on a target because saying better is.
• 35:23
  Better isn't a goal. Right. Yeah. Better constantly moving. You know? We got to clarify. Well, I'd love for you to maybe describe some examples of that because I do think that's a huge problem. I think the reason why sports are so intoxicating is because it's so clear. It's the clarity.
• 35:40
  that I know who won, I know who lost, I know what the score is, I know who won the championship. And I think that gets, guys especially, like that clarity is so important because then we know we're progressing and that we're competent. And even if we've lost, we know how to win. That is so important. And in the family, it just seems like this big, confusing realm where nothing...
• 36:06
  No, no one ever knows if we're winning. No one, you know, we don't know we're losing. We, you know, it's not, it's not essentially competitive. And so this is, this is, uh, this makes it a little challenging. Like how do we do that? So yeah, give me any examples or any thoughts about how do we clarify this for families? Sure. So I think it begins with, again, going back to when you know who you are, you'll know what to do. So for, uh, for our family, we've got five families.
• 36:30
  core values, radically protecting equality time, enduring family unity, unwavering integrity, radically protect, I'm sorry, excellence in everything, and prayerful in decision-making. And so that becomes the parameters, the guidelines, the boundaries of the decision-making tool.
• 36:50
  Then you can set longer three year fighter goals again, not pushing vision down because while it's a win, if every generation will wrap up, well, not really. Right. I mean, but Hey, it, it's a win if every generation is spiritually close and walking with a relationship with Christ or like, Hey, we can talk about that stuff. Um,
• 37:16
  And then sitting down together with those being the boundaries of the box and saying, okay, guys, where are some three-year, five-year, ten-year goals? If we have enduring family unity, let's define what that looks like in three years or five years so that we know what we're aiming towards and hitting. Verical and decision-making is one that's really easy for us.
• 37:39
  Because the question is, hey, I think I'm going to go do this. Did you pray about it? Yes or no. Like, that's real easy. You know, yes, you did. No, you didn't. Okay, I need to do that. That's great. Man, that's so good. Well, I kind of want to take a step back. I love trying to understand for an organization like yours, who's encountering so many families. And you said, you know, you and your wife both came from broken homes and now are experiencing this.
• 38:08
  I'd love to get your thoughts on just what has happened to the family. We can talk about this from the bigger perspective in the West or within the church as well, because I think that you can't solve problems unless you really understand the root causes of the problems. And so I really like to spend time trying to understand how people think about why is the family in so much crisis in our culture?
• 38:34
  You know, I think it's a multifaceted, multivariate problem. So we could explore any part of the variables that you guys are keen on. But as you have families coming into, you know, the family ID process and, you know, coming to an event, really working through these things. And obviously you guys, I'm sure see the brokenness and the challenges that families, what they're trying to recover. Yeah. How have you started thinking about the nature of the problem that the family is facing?
• 39:00
  For us, I mean, to sound cliche, Jeremy, it all goes back to identity. And that's really our differentiator in the market is there are some big name organizations, ministries that focus on marriage or parenting or relationships or whatever it is. But I believe until you've nailed down identity,
• 39:22
  You can't, you don't know where those targets are on marriage or relationship parenting. You can get better, but this is the type of parent I want to be. And so first you have to identify that. Do you think there's something where that got lost? Like where, where, where would you, where would you say that, that, where did that go off the rails? Yeah.
• 39:38
  I don't know if I could pinpoint a day at a time, but I think culture spends billions of dollars trying to capture the hearts and imagination of each one of us and our future generations. And I think when we lose the idea that our family is our first and most important ministry, that's when it completely goes sideways. Because we have to...
• 40:06
  I believe we as parents, grandparents, great-grandparents have to consider ours as the first, not only, but the first and most important ministry to work on. And to create a vision that is so beautiful and encapsulating that it grabs the hearts and minds of each member of the family so that they understand, like our conversation today.
• 40:30
  You are part of something so much bigger and so much greater. And you make an incredible difference in that. We need you to be a part of that. Not, hey, if you drive a Chevy Silverado, then you become a man. Like, nothing against Silverado, but yeah. They're great. Yeah, we have these markers of identity.
• 40:53
  And they do. And the way I would describe what you're saying is the it seems like what occurred is that in the West, we began to adopt a hyper individual identity. Like what you hear? Be sure to leave a rating and review for this podcast wherever you use streaming.
• 41:15
  And so there's a natural tension between family identity and the individual identity. And it's to the extent now that I think that parents actually might feel like they are doing their children a disservice to provide identity in any way that flows from the family to the child because it violates their individuality.
• 41:35
  So you want a child to be radically free, radically able to invent their own identity. Now, nobody can invent their own identity. It's really discovered. And so part of the problem is that when you tell children that, like, you got to go figure out who you are, then usually the people who would do imprint their identity are their peers, right? And so they don't see these.
• 41:53
  That's why these social contagions are happening because kids have no identity. Parents are clueless about the fact that you can't send children into the world without an identity. And when you do, their peers are going to call them something or say something or suggest something. Or they're going to sit in class and hear a teacher say something. And then they're going, maybe that's who I am. Maybe that's who I am. And so this idea that you can only form individual identities, I think,
• 42:18
  And the church seems like we've not really combated this properly. We're not saying, hey, no, no, no, you guys. What we do is say, no, within Christ, you can have a new personal identity. But there's not an understanding that the Bible also does what you're describing. That is, it calls families. Abraham, the whole promise of the Messiah was that it doesn't say every individual. It says every family of the earth will be blessed through you.
• 42:46
  What's fascinating too in the book of Acts is that you rarely see theologians really grapple with this, but you have one after another story of household salvations. You can get into the theology of that, but the reality is when Luke was recording Acts and the Holy Spirit was moving, it was from house to house. It was family to family. It was all these households getting saved as whole households.
• 43:13
  And, you know, we would never write a book like that today because we would be concerned that it's going to violate the, you know, sort of the cult of individualism that we seem to all be buying into. So it seems like there's a lot of tension. I don't know if you guys have worked out like some of that, but that's where I feel a lot of it when I'm talking to families in our culture today. I think you're absolutely right. No, we haven't sold it all. Yeah.
• 43:37
  I'll leave it with that. No, but I agree and, and entirely agree. And, and I think I heard a pastor say it once of, um, Hey, his job as a parent and I took it on as my job as a parent. Um, and,
• 43:54
  is within the realm of my values, I want my kids to be successful. And I'm willing to, not when they're 18, cut them off and go push them out and say, hey, find your identity. But it's a two-way trust relationship. I love what you're talking about. Your daughter who is interested in Korea and yet you and your wife can sit in that consultant seat because you have gained and garnered trust.
• 44:21
  that she can say, what is a wise decision? What is wise counsel? And you're saying, this is wise counsel. It might not be me, but I can pull in the right people because there is a relationship of trust. And then when the decision is made, you're willing to leverage everything you can, relationships, maybe some finances, opportunities, connections. You spent your entire life creating this relationship
• 44:49
  I don't know, warehouse of values and valuables. And you're giving her the keys to say, look, because I trust you, you can have access to the whole warehouse. Let's go make it happen, baby. Come on. That's right. But without trust, you're going to hold those keys real tight. And without trust the other way that the next generation isn't going to open up and even ask for advice or direction because they don't feel supported. Yeah.
• 45:18
  And it's that two-way trust that I think kills the independence and the hyper-individuality of the future generation. It's an interdependence of, hey, if you'll trust me now when you are unsure, when you feel like you know where God's calling you to go, I will trust you then because you demonstrated it.
• 45:41
  Let's go. Yeah, that's really good. I think that the thing that I want my kids to really believe is that whatever visions God gives them, you're going to go so much farther if we partner together in some way.
• 45:57
  I don't know what that's going to look like. It could just be resourcing with this resource or that, like a connection or there could be like, you know, much deeper, like our kids, we've had situations every time our kids go overseas and do things in, in totally new networks. Like our son was in South Africa, uh,
• 46:15
  Um, our daughter was in Norway. Um, we, you know, we're planning the same thing in Korea. We will go usually about halfway into their trip just to see what, how can we help you? How, is there anything that you've met? Anybody you want us to meet, anything we can resource. Um, and every time there's just like a huge opportunities for our whole family to, to, to really be extended, um, through what our children have, have established, you know, as, as really new beach heads of the family and in different areas.
• 46:44
  And so it's, it has been, it has been so much fun in this season to watch my kids, you know, go out and fire those arrows in different places of the world and just get to experience the, just the expansion of the family because that trust that you're describing has been built over, you know, the, the 20 years that we've been a family living in.
• 47:07
  living together. We have all the advantages in the world, just all the time in the world, just to be as our kids are young, to establish that deep trust. I think what I really get frustrated with is to have invested for 18 or 20 years in that incredibly deep relationship. Right at the moment where it's about to bear the most fruit for the kingdom, you just artificially cut it off and say,
• 47:32
  And it's in your best interest to have no identity from this family because we don't want to violate your individual freedom. And so go out there and try to figure all this out on your own. That is going too far. So that interdependence is really what we're trying to do. It's not easy as we've been having this conversation. Like we haven't.
• 47:50
  you know, figured out the exact calibration, you have to really be in relationship with somebody to find that. Am I being too controlling, too suggestive, you know, too directive? Am I being under, am I under-resourcing? Am I being too passive? I ask that question literally every single day about at least one of my relations with my kids. Yeah.
• 48:10
  Do I have this calibration right? And I find constantly scenarios where I feel like I'm going too far or not going far enough. And so it's not easy. This is part of why we need to be in that close relationship and find that space.
• 48:25
  Absolutely. I mean, then she wants you and your wife to come visit her halfway through. She wants to include you in it and not just so that you can put her favorite snacks in your backpack and bring them over there, but we will do that. She wants to celebrate with you because you've been great coaches and consultants. I'm sure you've heard or some of the audience has heard. Yeah.
• 48:50
  J H range and talking about the roles of parenting. Oh yes. The journey of transition. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Journey of transition. As they talk about going from caretaker to cop, to coach, to consultant. Yes. And we, my kids being 15 and 14, I mean, we.
• 49:06
  We just made that transition from cop to coach. And I probably reach back to cop every once in a while and, and still cop a little bit, but coaching is great because you can build them up. And I was talking with a buddy yesterday at lunch and what does a coach do? Well, they see potential.
• 49:26
  They call out potential. They encourage. They refine. They run plays. They run drills. They help to develop and take somebody to a level. And because they are doing that in a trustworthy way, great trust and relationship is built so that, and I'm sure you do a great job, Jeremy, of being a great consultant with your daughter and saying, okay, you've called me in to solve this one problem.
• 49:50
  I might see a couple other ones, but I'm going to solve this problem right now. And I'm not going to try and solve all of them right now. I might let you know I see some other indications, but for right now, let's try to solve this one problem or manage this one tension.
• 50:05
  Yeah. Yeah. That, that is, that dance is, is so delicate. Um, you know, and you don't want to fall off on one side or the other is, is I think what we're both saying. I think that that's the temptation, uh, the temptation to say I'm all out or I'm totally in and controlling. That's right. Yeah. We got to find that, that, that balance.
• 50:25
  Awesome. Well, Derek, this has been really great. I would love for you to maybe share like next steps with anyone listening to this that gets is getting excited. Oh my gosh, I want to I want to know more about my family identity. Well, what can they do? What are the steps? What are some ways for them to learn more?
• 50:42
  The easiest is family-id.com. On there is, there's big buttons for, to take the assessment. That's completely free. We want it to always be free. Our heart is to minister families under the resources. There's the video masterclass to go through the courses.
• 51:00
  and walk that through either as a family or as a small group of families. That's completely free. So please take advantage of that. And we want that to be free to administer. So family-id.com. That's the way. Very cool.
• 51:16
  Hey guys, take advantage of that. I'd love to hear and let me know what you learned about your family identity. What are some ways that it's helping you? So dive into the assessment and into the master class. And I think it's a great idea to go through it with a group of families. I think this is a great step into, yeah, continue to go deeper into what unique ways God has designed your family and give your kids a lot more clarity around that score and what it means for us to really win as a family.
• 51:43
  Thank you so much for what you and Greg are doing. This has really been super helpful for me to understand more about your ministry and excited to continue to collaborate and partner in whatever ways we can as we move forward. Thanks for having us today. This is a great conversation.
• 52:01
  Thank you for listening to the Family Teams podcast. If you're enjoying this content or have learned something new, please make sure to leave a rating and review and share with a friend. To stay up to date with our events, new content, and products, you can follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Family Teams.