Latest / Just Heal with Dr Jay / Replay* | Healing Through Grace: A Conversation with Kirk Franklin and Dr. Jay Barnett

Transcript

Replay* | Healing Through Grace: A Conversation with Kirk Franklin and Dr. Jay Barnett · Just Heal with Dr Jay

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Just Heal with Doctor J, a production of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: another episode of Just Here with Doctor J. And I
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: am your host, Doctor J. Barnett. Listen. Some of you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: have been eavesdropping listening to the episodes, but I want
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to take this opportunity to invite you to subscribe. To
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: click that link and come on and stop flirting with us,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and you join this healing community. The thing that we're
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: doing over here is so phenomenal. We are changing minds,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: we're changing lives, but more importantly, we're having impactful conversation
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and dialogue not just around mental health, but around healing.
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  Speaker 1: Healing our minds, our bodies, and our spirits is so
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: important for the time that we're living in. So I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: want you to join our community if you can listen
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: on the Black Effect Podcast Network and also on iHeart
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Podcast Network or anywhere that you listen to podcasts. All Right,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: so you guys know that the month of September the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: month of October that I have been working entirely to
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: bring some enlightening conversations and some powerful conversation. And one
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  Speaker 1: of the conversations I've been eager to have is with
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  Speaker 1: my brother, Kirk Franklin. You guys know him as a songwriter,
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  Speaker 1: the producer, and all the accolades that you know he
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: has achieved. But today we get to sit down and
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  Speaker 1: talk to the man and we get to have a
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  Speaker 1: conversation not only with just the artist, but with the
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  Speaker 1: man himself. So I want to welcome my brother, Kirk.
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  Speaker 1: Are you doing King? Are you doing black Man? Good?
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  Speaker 2: King?
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  Speaker 1: Listen, Man, listen. I don't know what's going on, but brother,
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  Speaker 1: it's like we was in each other's closets.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you wasn't in mine because you would have
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  Speaker 2: been your dog show.
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  Speaker 1: So, man, brother, I am so excited to sit with
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  Speaker 1: you today, man and share space. We have an opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to share space on your amazing show. And I just
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  Speaker 1: want to say thank you for what you guys are
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  Speaker 1: doing with the Den of Kings and having these man
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it was these raw conversations that men don't get to have.
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  Speaker 2: Nice and that episode had a lot to offer the man.
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  Speaker 1: Brother Man listeners, Yeah, man, And so how did that
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: come about? You know, the Dead Kings? Then?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, Den was birth out of my fifty
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  Speaker 2: fifth birthday dinner. But Historically, I've always enjoyed sitting around
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  Speaker 2: the table with people and engaging the conversations. I wasn't
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  Speaker 2: raised with family, so I don't know how it is
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  Speaker 2: to be at the table with mom and dad and
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  Speaker 2: siblings and just having engaging conversations. So when I got
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: older and started having groups and singers and musicians and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: band and we would travel the world together, that KEPA
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: started to be my introduction to table talk and table
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  Speaker 2: conversations and and me being already automatically inquisitive, like I'm
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  Speaker 2: one that's always seeking out information. And sometimes I'll even
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: be a spark starter, like I'll throw out something knowing
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I already know what the answer is going to be,
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  Speaker 2: but I just want to be able to stir the
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  Speaker 2: pot on the table just to get it categoring so
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  Speaker 2: that people can jump in and have engaged in conversations.
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  Speaker 2: I love elevating my mind and my my space with
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  Speaker 2: intellectual debate and dialogue to be able to grow and
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  Speaker 2: to be able to just inform others at the table
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  Speaker 2: and just kind of pushed the narratives of just being
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  Speaker 2: to really being informed and being aware and being challenged.
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  Speaker 2: And so for my fifty fifth birthday dinner. I flew
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  Speaker 2: to Atlanta because all of my god friends, majority of
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  Speaker 2: my guy friends living in Atlanta on my bros. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: so I had dinner with the bros. And that night
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  Speaker 2: turned into one of those conversations to the point that
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  Speaker 2: a couple of the guys that also produced with they
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  Speaker 2: were like, bro, we think this may be a show. Yeah,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: this may be a show. And so it started during
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: January and we shot the first one in May. M
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: so and uh, well, like we shot the first two
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  Speaker 2: in May, and I've been blown away by the reception.
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  Speaker 2: Like it's been crazy, man, crazy.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. When Phil, when Phil reached out to me, man
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  Speaker 1: and told me what he was doing, he was like, Yo, man,
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  Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to do something with Kirk. Bro, I
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  Speaker 1: think it's gonna be amazing. And when he told me
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  Speaker 1: the concept, I said, bro, it's gonna pop. Well he's like, man,
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  Speaker 1: you think so? I said, man, you know Phil is
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  Speaker 1: my fraternity brother, and yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So then so none, no matter came by all that
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  Speaker 2: we could get gone wasting our time with all that,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, just yo to the news and listen, Kirk,
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  Speaker 2: did you said so?
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  Speaker 1: So?
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  Speaker 2: Because I know.
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  Speaker 1: People like, all right, what what what fraternity here, cap
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  Speaker 1: IFICI f Attorney Corporated.
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  Speaker 2: He was so happy to do that. He was so
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  Speaker 2: happy to do that. He ain't picked them. No Bible
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: hit it for, no biblist Green hit it for those scriptures.
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  Speaker 1: Just Aiden.
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  Speaker 2: He got into it over tom By. So now we
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  Speaker 2: go through that. But but but thank you for even
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  Speaker 2: for seeing that it could be something that.
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  Speaker 1: Because it's something that we don't have, king and it's
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  Speaker 1: also something that is needed. You know what I've seen
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  Speaker 1: over the past three years that I traversed his country
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  Speaker 1: with my tour Just He'll Brouh with four of my brothers,
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  Speaker 1: Lemon Rucker, doctor Joel, Doctor O'shan, Lawrence Ajah, and I
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  Speaker 1: called their name because what we did was was was historical.
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  Speaker 1: It was the first mental health tour for black men.
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  Speaker 1: From the book that I wrote, Just He'll bro and
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  Speaker 1: I had a vision of it becoming a tour and
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  Speaker 1: seeing what it could do for men. But it was
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  Speaker 1: in the process that I saw men desired this. For
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  Speaker 1: three years, thirty three cities, eighteen thousand men that we reached,
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  Speaker 1: and one of the things that I was really challenged
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  Speaker 1: with is that when I ended the tour in November
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  Speaker 1: is I was like, man, God, I don't know what
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  Speaker 1: to do with this, but I want to see something
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  Speaker 1: else done where men can continue to see that their
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: space is created for them. And that's what Den of
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  Speaker 1: Kings is doing. It's creating space for us. Because when
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  Speaker 1: you talk about not having conversation with family and not
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  Speaker 1: having conversation around you know, individuals that made it feel
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  Speaker 1: like home, is a part of what you do on
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  Speaker 1: the Den of Kings. Is that part of your healing journey.
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  Speaker 2: I'm quite sure that there are effects of healing, but
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  Speaker 2: that was not the modus operandi, that that wasn't the
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  Speaker 2: agenda for then. It's more than anything, it was all
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  Speaker 2: about the idea of men coming to other and having
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  Speaker 2: conversations that really really felt like in the moment and
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  Speaker 2: the camera was a spy in the room, that we
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  Speaker 2: were authentic and true to just the moment of conversation
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  Speaker 2: that a camera just happened to catch. Yeah, reversus a
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  Speaker 2: production of a show. Yeah, And so I hope it
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  Speaker 2: looks like that. It translates to that it appears like
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  Speaker 2: it has, and that's a blessing in itself. So now
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  Speaker 2: I'm cursure there's going to be residue of healing moments.
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  Speaker 2: But I think more than anything, it's all about just
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  Speaker 2: curating content and platforms that just speak in spaces that
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  Speaker 2: have not had a chance to amma voice.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel that because the tour, we didn't do
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  Speaker 1: a lot of video because I didn't want the men
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  Speaker 1: to ever feel like they were being exploited. And then
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  Speaker 1: there were no women allowed, and we averaged anywhere from
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: three to six hundred men. And when I said at
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  Speaker 1: the table the den of Kings, I often had men
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  Speaker 1: who weren't able to attend the just He'll row events.
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  Speaker 1: They often was like, man, what is it like? And
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  Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is you allowing other men
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  Speaker 1: to see what it's like that didn't have that experience
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  Speaker 1: of sitting around the table but then not knowing what
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  Speaker 1: it feels like to even have community. Yes, because in
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  Speaker 1: that moment that we're sitting there eating, community is happening.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, And I think that man feed off
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  Speaker 2: of community's. I think that we're always looking for connecting points.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's why sports is always such a big
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  Speaker 2: unifier and it's the thing that has no bias, no prejudice,
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  Speaker 2: no confrontational aspect at the fundamental core of what it
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  Speaker 2: is now. I never played sports, but I can tell you,
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  Speaker 2: even as a grown man, I see the fraternities that
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  Speaker 2: men naturally build through sports that I envy, Like like
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  Speaker 2: when I when I watch men that they either played
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  Speaker 2: sports or then and the sports, there's an unspoken language
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  Speaker 2: and rhythm that men have their reactions to things. They're
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  Speaker 2: engagement with things, where for me, somebody who's a creative,
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  Speaker 2: and I've always been a creative my whole life, I
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  Speaker 2: don't speak that language at all, Like I don't always
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  Speaker 2: know the hype of certain things. So for me is
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  Speaker 2: a man being adopted by a woman. I see the
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  Speaker 2: deficiencies that I have that I envy from communities that
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  Speaker 2: men have had. It's because you know, most men that
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  Speaker 2: have lifelong friends it came through sports. They played sports
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  Speaker 2: together in junior high, high school. So you know, like
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  Speaker 2: you don't see a lot of friends that came up
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  Speaker 2: playing the piano with each other. You know, me and
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  Speaker 2: my dog play violin. It's a sister great. You know,
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  Speaker 2: it just doesn't happen. It's not the same nature of
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  Speaker 2: fraternity show. A lot of that natural matriculation didn't happen
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  Speaker 2: in the ecosystem that I just matured in.
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  Speaker 1: As a creative. I had the opportunity to play sports
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  Speaker 1: and to be a creative and that was the hardest
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  Speaker 1: thing for me when it was over, which over football?
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  Speaker 1: Is that locker room, man, It's all about the locker room, man.
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  Speaker 1: It was the brotherhood. It was it was knowing that
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  Speaker 1: I may not agree with my brother's view on life
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  Speaker 1: or anything else. But man, when we cross those stripes, man,
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  Speaker 1: I mean you would you would put your life on
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  Speaker 1: the line for this. Dude. Man, we wouldn't have you know,
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  Speaker 1: you weren't gonna drink no beer, you ain't gonna eat
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: no dinner with all of your teammates. But there was
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: this common goal and that was this objective that winning
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  Speaker 1: was the outcome that we were working towards. So it
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: was it was missing, you know, training in the heat.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You know, it was missing you know getting up at
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: five o'clock, you know, five o'clock in the morning and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: working and then trying to outwork each other. You know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: When I played arena ball, I came in as a
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  Speaker 1: rookie an arena league, and there was a guy, most
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  Speaker 1: of the guys that just they had been cut from
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the NFL, and so at this time, Arena was his
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  Speaker 1: fundamental lead. And this guy played seven years and he
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  Speaker 1: was twenty seven. I came in at like twenty two
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  Speaker 1: years old. I went undrafted and the coach brought me in.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I got brought in on a two day contract, and
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I remember, like yesterday he said, you better come in
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: and you better do your thing other than that, I'm
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: sitting your ass home. This is what the coaches said.
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  Speaker 1: He was like, you better come in. I'm sitting you
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  Speaker 1: home and now your ass home.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is different sitting in you home? I'm spending
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  Speaker 2: your asshole.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't feel no love
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  Speaker 2: in that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so it shifted something in me because I
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  Speaker 1: went undrafted and this was my other opportunity that was
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  Speaker 1: still connected to football and still connected to the NFL.
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  Speaker 1: So it's like this is the only way that you
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  Speaker 1: get back that was part of me. Like, man, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not ready to give up what the locker room provided
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  Speaker 1: for me. So I went in there and went crazy.
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  Speaker 1: I ended up they end up signing me and cutting
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the guy that because we were playing the same position.
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  Speaker 1: But when I thought about what I was not ready
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  Speaker 1: to give up. I had to ask myself why it
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was the only place that I felt accepted. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't think we talk enough about men needing to
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  Speaker 1: feel belonging, acceptance. And even with our counterparts women, I
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  Speaker 1: don't think they realized how important that it is.
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  Speaker 2: They have no idea. And I feel the same way
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  Speaker 2: on stage or in the studio that I am my
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  Speaker 2: most natural self in those states that it's very it
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: is is it's very hard for me to learn the
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: rhythm of normalcy. It's difficult. It's diff it's because normalcy
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: for me, just normalcy doesn't move enough, like I gotta
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: have movement in normalcy. A lot of times demands you
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to be normal all you talking, you know. And so
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  Speaker 2: I find myself in the the duality of reality, where
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: where who I am and what I do conflicts with
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the realities of often where I'm supposed to be. And I'm
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: fifty five years old and still have not mastered that
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: space yet. Like I was in my therapy, I call
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  Speaker 2: my therapist yesterday even and I said, Hey, I need
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to come in for for session this morning. And I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was with my therapist who's been my therapist for many many,
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  Speaker 2: many years. Incredible, God, you know it's it's because I
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: need those checkups. Is because when I'm in Europe. I
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: just came from Europe, and you know, every night I'm
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: in front of thousands of people, and I was in
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Europe when America was having this racial moment with Charlie Kirk,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you know. And so I'm in Europe watching America look
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: like it's burning and having all these conflicting emotions and
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: feelings because I'm watching the responses and the attitudes and
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: everything of people. And I wasn't even I wasn't even
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: aware of who charing to Kirk was until that moment.
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  Speaker 2: And so you know that that's not normal. These these
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: moments are not normal. And then you know, I'm in
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: five different countries. I'm standing in front of white European
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: people watching America have this tension. And then I fly
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: home and I'm supposedly normal. Slot to ask, Slot to ask, like,
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  Speaker 2: can you imagine and this illustration always yeah, Doc, can
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you imagine Mike Tyson at his height, when Mike Tyson
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: was knocking his out right, I'm telling, like, you remember
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: how much of a monster Mike was, like right, right right,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: and like you'll know how much of a just an
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: assassin he was. Can you imagine him having a fight
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  Speaker 2: on a Sunday, knocking heads off, and that next Monday
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  Speaker 2: morning he got to be in a pt Ain't beating
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: with his kid. Can you imagine what type of mental
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: psychological shift from being an assassin that Monday. But his
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: wife is expecting him to be in that ptain't meeting
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: and be normal because he is a father too, So
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: he's got that responsibility and he's going to be judged
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: on how good he is in these different worlds. But
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: these worlds are polarizing spaces, and he's going to be
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: judged and held accountable to be good at both m.
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  Speaker 1: I'm tearing up part on nothing.
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  Speaker 2: I don't do that.
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  Speaker 1: When there's a moment that that it's profound, I have
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to tear up a card man. So when I tell
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you that is the war that I don't think people consider.
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  Speaker 2: Especially women in our lives, especially the women in our lives,
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  Speaker 2: it's because it's a perfect picture, and it is a
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: perfect picture example of the duality of reality, that that
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: that we are expected to win in at at at
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: both times. But really those are two different people. The
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: mic that need to be in the ring and the mic,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: they need to be the pizzaman. Those are not the
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: same people, not the same people, and you can't even
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: think the same. The thought process is a completely different. Yes,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I was just telling a friend of mine as and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: it's funny that you're sharing that that as you were
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: watching the world from your last night.
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  Speaker 1: I flew back from New York and I was on
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: a boat last night with three hundred European people talking
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to them about two of their close friends and two
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: of the construction owners of their employees who had took
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: their life and died by suicide. Jeez, I'm on this boat, Kurt,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm feeling a ways because I said to them
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that whether you're red or blue, black or white, mental
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: health is life in motion. But the challenge is I'm
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: giving life and to people who don't look like me,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: people who don't believe like me, who don't think like me,
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  Speaker 1: And in that moment, I am expected to meet them
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: where they are because there's an expectation, yes, sir, And
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the expectation is that Doc you got to meet us
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: in a buddy of minds was with me and he said, Jay,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I've seen you speak in a lot of different rooms.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in how you're going to work this room.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Which could be unfair to you because it's like, are
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you expecting me to fail? Are you expecting me to win? Like?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: What is the nature of your expectation?
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And when I grabbed that mic, there was a lot
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of chatter because at the time, it's like a handful
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: of black folks and my buddy and a few people
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that I know that came to support and they're standing around,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and it was the oddest thing because it's like all
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: these white folks on the boat. I'm thinking, Man, this
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: cannot be Titanic too. I'm thinking that, But then I'm
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: also thinking, like, man, how do I engage with them?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And the moment that I grabbed the mic, what I
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: realized is what humanity is for all of us, the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: process of navigating life's trials and tripulation that whether rich
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: or poor, black or white, gay or straight, no matter
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: what your belief system or what your social economic life
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is going for all of us.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and our species does not give each and every
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: individual the grace that they may need to figure out
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: how to do the journey. It's almost like we expect
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: people to land and automatically know and know that but
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: but but but but our knowing is also mixed in
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: with her learning. So I may stumble, I may make mistakes.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: So like, one of the biggest challenges I think that
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: has been even with Western Christianity is that we expect people,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: We expect people to learn a certain level and a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: certain acumen of faith where they're learning the faith. Like,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you can't expect for me to be a five a
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a what is called a five michelan aim a chef
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: my first time in the kitchen, you know, like I'm
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going to be in the process. You know, you can't
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: expect from me to be a super saint just because
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I rock with Jesus. It's like and then unfortunately, sometimes
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: most of us we have to try to grow while
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the camera is on, while the spotlight is on. And
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that's subjective. I'm not talking about celebrity. Like it could
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: be the spotlight of your kids, it could be the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: spotlight of your mom in law, it could be the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: spotlight of of your coworkers. That a lot of us
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: are expected to win and know automatically while we're being watched,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and the level of performance anxiety that that can create
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: in humans. So I think what is the biggest addition
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: to our mental health is the lack of grace for
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the human condition. Yes, it is. It is so disappointing,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and especially for us as people of color, the the
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: the harsh expectation and judgment when we don't get it
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: right from our own ads to mental health, because my nigga,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: everybody trying, We trying. I'm trying to get to Jesus.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to mintal health. I'm trying to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: get to the bag. I'm trying to get to the kids.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to wifey. I'm trying to get
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to my old health. I'm trying to get to the doctors.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So you can put the little glove on. Have me
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: bend over and made me feel a little comfortable to say, Carul,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do it, but I know I
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: got to do it because my people are dying of that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's like I'm trying, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I think that this lack of grace and not realizing
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that we're all trying. Trying.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Man, that's a word.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: How cool to judge somebody in the midst of their tribe.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let that sick king because I can feel
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that in this moment. I was on the plane flying
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: back and that was my prayer to God and I
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: text CJ and he could pick up my energy and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: he says, what's going on? I said, Bro, I want
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to quit this healing stuff. And I said I feel
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: this unfair. Yeah, because I'll show up in space is
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: king and I can't beat J. Doc. What is the
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: word for today? Doc? Can you make me feel better? Doc?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Can you give me some insight? Doc? Can you give
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: me perspective? And I'm sitting on a plane and I'm saying, God,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I need some insight right now because I'm trying.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I have been on planes and I said this
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: on one podcast on if we saw on lou Young's pod,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: because that's bro. I've been on planes, and people have
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: gotten on planes and will see me and they will say, oh,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I know this plane is gonna crash. We got God
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: on this plane. And I'm thinking where he at? Where
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: got at Christians dollars? Christians dotald planes. It's like this,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: this expectation that this plane is gonna be It's gonna survive.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Book up. I'm on it all that kind of prayer
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, or or or or like for
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: people to say that's stopping them. Awn, Yo, man, will
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: you pray for me? And I'll say yes, I've been
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: with that too, But I just need for you to
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: know your prayers are heard just like mine. But as
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: human and even since the beginning of mankind, we have
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: always made idols out of those we think are oracles
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: of God. We always have.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: How does it? How does that make you feel? Man?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: When you when people walk up to you about asking
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: a prayer as if your prayer is better and and
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that God is not hearing them because they're not where
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you at, how does it make you feel?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: At times? They can give me anxiety, you know, And
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: then it just sometimes hurts me for the human condition
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: that we are naturally wired to believe that before God
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: we're not good enough, because that's really the language that
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: are saying. I know I'm not good enough and I
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: know he is, but I know he is, and they
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: don't realize that I just got off the same toilet
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: seat she did. I just finished shaking at the toilet
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: like you just finished shaking. I just finished burping or
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: passing gas like you did like just because you may
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: not see my dirt dough made, there ain't none. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I just wish, I wish there was a way to
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: free people to know that the God that believes in
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: them believes in all of them, and that there's never
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a time. Listen. I have kids, I have a son
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: that I don't agree with everything he does, and he
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: breaks my heart in the hurstry. But guess what, his
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: last name is still Franklin. That don't change his name.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: What he does does not change who he is. He's
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: still a Franklin. And I just won't. I need for
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: people to understand that no matter what you do wrong,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: God doesn't take back. He created too hm and he
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: never will. He never will. So at that moment, you're
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: always good enough when you accept His son as your
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: personal savior. My nigga, the chop is done. It's done.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: It's done.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It's done, it's done.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And but you know, the enemy's job, Kurt, is to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: pulverize and to get you to not think that you
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: are enough. Yes, and what I see, particularly for people
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of color, I'm the son of a pastor. My father's
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a pastor a Baptist church, and I can remember as
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: a kid. The amount of people who because in the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: South they call you reverend you or.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Rare you know, or doc god doc he had been
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to no school, ain't been to no school, and ain't
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: been to no school. You can listen and I could
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: just think, agree up there ridden a crayon, you know
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: well more? And why don't they ever use their whole
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: first name? Doctor A. E. Johnson, the doctor C. B. Smith.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: It's like you embarrassing your name. But you know, it's like,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: you know, like, don't nobody use their person and not
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: gotter use your first name, the name Craig, Say Craig,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Come on, Craigs, that are doctor C. B. Jackson? No,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: my name, your name Craig, Craig Jackson, any flight Craig.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And so I can remember how he was pulled in
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: all of these different directions. And I think the most
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: difficult thing that that I've seen as my father has
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: age is he had this high level of spirituality but
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a very low level of his individuality.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Man, I don't think my father really knew who he
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: was outside of being a pastor. Like I'm the conversation
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: that I'm having now with him in his sixties, they're
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: so spaced out, and it's hard for him to even
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: listen as a father because he only knows how to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: respond to rev.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And that's that generation of Black Church culture.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And so my question for you is what was the
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: turning point for you? Or if there was, how did
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you navigate on and maybe you still try and how
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: did you navigate on the performer and the man?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, when I get that right, I'll come back. When
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I get that right, I'll come back.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh no, I love it. Oh no, I don't
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: know if you ever. It's because they're so intertwined. That said,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: they are so much part of the DNA of who
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you are. Are that that when you are passionate and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: committed to your craft, that you don't know a lot
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of times when the lions are like you. Hear Denzel
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: talk about how it took months for him to get
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the character of Malcolm X outside of his body because
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: he embodied that character so much. You hear how actors
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: transform themselves, but sometimes it drives them crazy because they
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: became so much of that. You hear about Heath Legendary
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: before he was Brokeford took his life how when he
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: played the Joker, How playing that character almost took him out.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And I just think that it is very difficult to
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: want to be committed to a high level of your
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: craft and turn that off and on. And I think
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: you see it in athletes. I think that when you
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: hear Kobe and when you hear Kobe and how he
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: was so committed and how but at the same time
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you hear how he was a butthole, right, you know,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: or you hear how Jordan was, you know, an a
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: hole you know. But these are highly, highly functional men
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that succeed at levels that we aspire. So the thing
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that we like about them mosto becomes the thing that
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: we hate about them. Here it is, and I don't
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: know how, once again, how we manage our expectations, Like
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you see how brutal the sport of football is, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: then you give a nineteen twenty year old kid millions
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: of dollars to play it, his health is not gonna
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: be the first thing on his mind. But then when
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: something happens, how disposable they are. So you know, it's
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: I think that we contribute to the asset that people
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: fall into when it even burns their own skin. Is
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: because we are purveyors of it, and we're warriors of
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: watching them either succeed or self destruct or both. At
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the same time, you were great at your sport, but
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: now you can hardly walk, and all of those cheers
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: can't fix those needs that are banged up. So you
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: know it, it is a very it is a very
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: difficult conundrum that can be. It can be it can
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: be a time hypocritical, it can be dysfunctional one at
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the same time beautiful.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost oxymorantic.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Always always, and that's what greatness has always been born at, right,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It has always been in the tension of both. You know.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: It's I think that great people live in tension. So
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: what has to happen is when it comes to mental health,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: you have to also be be proactive and understanding that
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: sometimes the high highs and low lows it exists in
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: people that are highly functional that we have to have
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: the tools already going in. Like what I try to
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: do is because I struggle with highighs and lowers because
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I am I'm a dog when it comes to work,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a dog. I'm a dog. A new artist will
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: never be be being in a student. I'm gonna be
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: there before you and be there after you. You're not gonna
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: sign more autographs. You ain't gonna kss more babies. You
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: ain't gonna shake more heads. You ain't gonna say thank
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna do more interviews than me. You're not
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: gonna be in a sessions longer than me. You're not
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: gonna take as many takes as me. Because I'm a dog,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: because i can't afford to not be liked. I'm driven
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: by my trauma, but I've learned to drive it there.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I don't drive it into alcohol. I'm driving in the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: drug because it's gonna go somewhere. Come and everybody pray
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: it away. No make shit, if you've never had it,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: you don't realize it. Some thorings you live with. Some
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: thorns you can't pray away. Listen, one of my heroes
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: theologically said, whatever pushes me to my knees is.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Good my God today. Man. When not my God today,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: c J, I'm out of call my God today. When
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I tell you you have just given me language to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: be a survivor of two suicide attempts to know what
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: it's like to look death in the face. There was
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: a season, and I can talk this with you because
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: we understand not only just the hermoneutics, but also biblically
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: and spiritual warfare. I remember a season king where there
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: were evil spirits that would circle my bed every night,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and I can hear them saying, we're going to kill them.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And this lasted probably about a year, and I would
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: go to bed terrified, and I can them when they
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: were coming well, and I can feel their presence, and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I would just pray, just pray and pray and pray.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And to be on this other side sharing that, because
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to be on the other side, why I don't have warfare.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That's also the thing that drives me to pour and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to help others heal.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So when you just said the trauma drives you
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: because as a part of me, and I'm just being
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: so transparent, there's a part of me that's afraid to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: be back in that space is because it's somewhere, because
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to go somewhere. And that is the hardest
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: thing that even as I stood on that ship last
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: night and these white men are saying, hey, brother, you
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: touch me, because it wasn't so much that I looked
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: like them, it was that I feel what you feel.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the problem is, if most men will admit it, seven
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to eighty percent of our time is probably we're afraid.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: We're scared scared. We're scared we're not gonna have the money.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: We're scared of having a retirement. We're scared we're gonna
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: get an erection. We're scared we're not gonna be able
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: to survive. We we we're scared we're not gonna be
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: able to We're scared of having a stroke, We're scared
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of having a heart attack, We're scared of having cancer.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: We're scared our wives are not going to levels at
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: the end of the real lust that we were, we're
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: we're we're scared of the secret struggles. We're scared. We
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: we live our lives in theory, privately, and it comes
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: out in this in this toxic masculinity, because the truth
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: is inwardly we are scared, and the fear is erased
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: when you can finally get the microphone and another man
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: looks at you dead in the face and say to you,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: me too. H. There's something about healing and community when
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: you know you not alone, sir, That alone is your
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: medicine does healing When you know, you not alone, because
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: most men think they're the only ones going through this,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And especially when you're pregnant with purpose, especially, you ain't never.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You ain't never seeing a woman deliver a baby and
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: she in hospital, smoking cigarettes and just and not eating
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: for Frido chips and just chilling. She is an agony
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: pushing giving life to something is always going to be
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: connected with the death of something else. Ain't nobody chilling
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: giving babies. They ain't nobody to send around whistling and
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: having fun. And you ain't never seeing a woman just
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: comfortable giving a baby. She is in agony, almost facing
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: death herself. So what a lot of men feel when
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: they're on the edge of that despair and that emotion
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and that anxiety they have given so much of themselves.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Just a me too. It's therapeutic and healing because.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: You just gave me my me too moment, because I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: could feel this purpose. I can feel this thing, and
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I've ran from it, and I've run from it, and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I know that it's healing. I know that it is cathartic.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I know that it is freeing and liberating for so
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: many men. But I'm sitting on the plane and I'm
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: saying to God, what about me? And the thorn is
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: often that you are healing while bleeding at the same time,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: because while I'm free in this, there's something that still
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: has me bound that I am wrestling not with letting
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: it go, but it has a hold on me.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And anybody great does anybody great does it? It is
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: an insult to greatness the thing that comfort will be included.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: It's an insult to greatness. Like you always see the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: new people in the gym. You can always tell the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: people of the gym that are new. They don't have
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the commitment there. There are there the sweats and the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: warm ups and a headbance, all match. Everything is cool,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the shoes are clean and pretty, and they get on
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the treadmill five ten minutes and get out who you
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: know and and they want to wrong when you go
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to the gym and people that hit on the match
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and then to look at cute like you know what
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, like real, you know where, you know where
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: you care about? No fashion, But people that go to
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: gym and fashionable are always one that are least in
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: shape because the external is more important for them than
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: the internal. But them internal wars those are the people
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that are giving birth to greatness. If you not struggling,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I would say you're not great. If you're not struggling,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: or if you're not struggling, you have not yet tapped
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: into your greatness. Because the seed of greatness is inside
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: of every human it's inside of every human being. But
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: they're not willing to pay the price to lay in
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: that bed and give delivery and be uncomfortable. That's why
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: everybody sits on the bench, because nobody wants the price
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: of being uncomfortable. Why, that's why you can be afraid
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: of your trauma. You gotta embrace the unrealities. You've got
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to be able to embrace the tension and the problems
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: and the pain is because anybody that has ever overcome
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: anything has never had a first class ticket to get there.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: It is the pain of coach, it's the pain of
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: spirit of airlines. It's losing your luggage, it's losing your mouths,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: it's losing your mind. The insanity. Yeah yeah, so men,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: men just need to be comfortable and to be able
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: to have the village. And we've got to get rid
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: of the comfort of our own masculinity and the by
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: able say like I was going through something and one
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: of my mentors, I found out that he was going
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: through something too. And what hurt me was he never
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: let me know that he was going through it too,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: that he has no idea how healing it could have
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: been for me. And he got to tell me all this business,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: but to just be able to look at me and say, son,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: me too, I know how you feel just that alone,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: because men beat themselves us up. We beat ourselves up,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and we beat ourselves up, and we just need somebody
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: to be able to say to us. I got like
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: my therapist, like today when I was in therapy and
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I and I was laying all my junk out and
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I said, and he's also a Christian, but you know,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: of course he's PhD. And I said, and when I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: when I finished, I said, how am I doing? I
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: always want to know how am I doing? It's because
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I need to know from him how am I doing?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Because I don't want to talk myself well if I'm
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: still sick, come on, see what I'm saying, like, because
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: you know, when you go to therapy, you're getting it
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: all out and I don't want to talk well, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I'm still sick. So I need somebody to be able
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: to channel back to me when I'm saying and when
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I'm giving back, because I want to know how am
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I doing, because I need to know where I'm landing.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So let's take that moment to excel this. This is
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: this is therapeutic, this is healing that it's almost like
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and I knew that this encounter with you and this
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: session and discussion would be what it is because of
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the way the enemy fought my mind today because Bro,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I was on the plane texting CJ and I'm like, Bro,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I quit man well because I can feel God expanding me.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I can feel them stretching me. I can feel him
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: calling me higher in what I do for men and
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: for people, and I'm saying to him, I don't want
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to go this big. Let me stay here, And not
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: because I'm afraid of big, but oftentimes I'm afraid of
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the responsibility that comes with big.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Let me tast I'm kink. If people could really see
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: and the majority of my career, if they could have
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: seen my if they could have seen my bank account,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it would be embarrassing. The amount of money that people
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: don't know I really don't have because I haven't vested
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: so much into my dreams. You have no idea, You
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: have no brother, if you if you knew, and then
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: because we we we're in a culture of fake it
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: till you make it. I still got a little rob boy.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Wife has still got to be whooped to whoop to whoop.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: The kids can't look like they from Ethiopia with the
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: big ballet. You know what I'm saying. It's like, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: everybody's still got to have a little drip. And it's like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you robbing Peter to pay Paul, You're for
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: the RS somebody, Hey, hey, hey, I promise I'm gonna
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: get it to you. Let me get on a payment plan.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Will you know what I'm saying, It's like you you
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: do man. People have People have no idea what it
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: CAUs to even to even not win, but just to try,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: just to try. Whoso Oh I would be embarrassed if
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: most of my career people sell my bank account. Oh yeah,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I've invested so much money to trying, just trying. Oh money, damn.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know why that was moving around. She's like,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: we can't afford again. It's because I don't want her
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to feel Yeah, it becomes still a man, and I
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: can't say no if she wants something, because that's what
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: men do. Men say yes.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Even when the yes hurts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: When they yet serve. So let me go jump on
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: another stage. Let me go do something just to make
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: sure that they don't feel nothing while I'm still drinking,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: while I'm still trying. Ain't even one yet, ain't even
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: it even came to fluition, but just to pay to try,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: just to try, Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. It's
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: all part of mental health. It's all part of the journey.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And God is so good because in that he's with us,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: He's with us, he's with us, He's with us. And
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: when you think you losing your mind, I remember two
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: years ago, this whole thing came up by my father
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: and me finding out what God, you know one nigga,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I told my father, ain't the negatives my father. The
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: other name was my father, And was like, I don't
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: mean nothing. Your niggas be my father.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And I remember walk.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Working on that project and being in the studio and
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I spent the night that night, and I have a
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: gun that was on the side of my bed that
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I keep on studio by myself, and it was a
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: night that I was uncomfortable having that gun by me.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I was uncomfortable. I felt the anxiety and the little depressed,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: you know, I was just uncomfortable psychologically. I could feel
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I was uncomfortable being by myself with a gun. And
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I called my homeboy and I said, hey, man, come
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: to the studio and come get this gun. Just come
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: get it, keep it on you for a minute. He
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: came and we walked outside of the night. I got some bed.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I did my breathing exercises. It's because but
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: but but all of that is happening in the middle
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: of giving birth to something. Or you're most vulnerable when
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you're giving birth to something, to something. Oh man, I
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: can't tell how many payment plans I've been with iris,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: just trying to keep people paid, just trying to keep
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: money flowing while you trying. Why are you trying? The
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Price to Try? And that's a book, The Price to Try.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I had a book title man.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, sir.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Man, brother, when I tell you have some better by me,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: the weight that has just lifted from me, just from
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you sharing. We not only watched your career, but we
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: just watched like I remember when God's Property came out.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I think I was in high school and and Stump
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: was out. And just to hear, you know, the criticism
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: around the sound and around the creativeness and all of
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: those different things, and to see that you're still here.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Doing it at a high level, by the kindness of God,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: But I just want to say, Man, how proud I
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: am for you, Man for just continue the journey, because
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: as a black man, I often tell Bishop Jakes when
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: we're having our conversation, I said, Bishop, to see men
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: like yourself and to see men like you to continue
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to do it at a high level as you have age.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: It's been a blessing. Yeah, to see you do it well.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: But what I have appreciated over the years is the
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: authentic versions that you've allowed us to see and to hear.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Because I didn't get to see who my father was
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: as a man, so unfortunate. You got to see what
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: caused the divorce. I got to see the different things
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that we found out, but I didn't really get to
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: see it where he says, Son, these are my.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Struggles, yeah, and have freeing.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: That would have been man Son, This is where I
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: went wrong. Son, This is where I could have done
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: this different. You know, he get to look at me
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: now and get to share how proud of he. You
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: know how proud he is, and that's been great. But
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: what I have longed for for so long is for
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a man to do what Jesus did to the disciple.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Show me where the holes are, yet, let me feel
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: where the hole is. Let me see the womb, because
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: when I see the womb, I know it's real. I
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: know you real.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Did you ever hear that song under which you look
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: at for album? My second I'm so called. Let me
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: touch you and see if you were real. Even though
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: my heart I know your hands can heal, but sometimes
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I get discouraged and I need your strength and hill, Jesus,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: let me touch you and see if you are real.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Sometimes to me you seem so far away, and I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: wonder if I could just make it through the day.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: But if I can touch the hem of your garment,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: your power, I know I could feel. Jesus, let me
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: touch you and see if you're real. And I do
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: want to say that all the brothers, even in that
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: conversation a minute ago, just talking about the financial contribution,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: that you're making to yourself. Don't measure the payoff by
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: the ground, because it's easy to look at the GRAM
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and see what other niggas are doing and see what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: other niggs are having. Don't judge the payoff of your
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the investment in you if it don't look like what
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you see on the ground, because I promise you the
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: GRAM is full of filters. Those are filtered pictures. You
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: have no idea what's real behind that Pierson. So do
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: not set yourself up for fare and rejoice in the
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: little successes, the little winds, the little doves. Man, But
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you invest in yourself. Celebrated, celebrate a little dub, celebrate
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: the beer. Buy yourself some socks, time give to the lord.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Buy yourself some draws, you know, some new draws. You
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: know your old draws too tight. Now you know what
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. Thing, you know your butt crack showing. You
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Get you some new draws, you know,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: just some little winds, just to be able to encourage
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: yourself to fight, to keep fighting, see said every now
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: and then. Come on, If every now and then you
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: don't do something to just take a time out, you're
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: governa have no energy to fight, but every now and
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: then and take me what you know, go go go
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: get a stake, even if you can't even afford it,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: do it just to be able to get the energy
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: to go back there and keep investing. Come on, yeah,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: just take a time out to do something, just just
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: just just for a second. You may not ever go
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: to the Bahamas, but but but you can go to
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: you can go to Lake Austin or something. You know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: just just just something to get the practice of what
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the wind gonna look like. Sometimes you need win practice.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: That's good. You know what I'm saying. You need some
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: win practice. You know what I'm saying. Take take twenty bus,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: take one hundred dollars, take a thousand, take five hundred,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and just do something. Just give you a taste of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: what a win feel like, so that when you get
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: to the five thousand, it will overdo you and it
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: will drive you. You know what I'm saying, You'll be comfortable.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Come on, See, you got to be comfortable with the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: five hundred, so that five thousand you won't be losing
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: your mind. So it's like, so the five thousand won't
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: mean that much, so it won't have you. You have
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: it come on, yeah, man, you gotta have that practice.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. And these are the good
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: things because most Black men that have dadd Is to
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: teach them, you know what I'm saying. For a lot
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: of us, this is the first generation of winners, your
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: first generation of entrepreneurs, first generation of dreamers. Everybody in
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: this room is dreamers. A lot of people watching us
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: a dreamers. So you gotta get the practice, you gotta
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: get the person. One thing that was a demiseter to
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: my career is that when you see pictures of a
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: young Beyonce and she's in her mama's high heels and
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: she got a mama's brush and she's singing around the house,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: guess what they're doing. They're grooming her to be great.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: But in church, if you in the mirroring, you're trying
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: to do that. Oh you out about yourself, stay humble.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: It ain't about you, so that if you do get it,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: you don't know what to do with it because you
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: never had practice.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: O my god, today, you.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Never had practice. You never had practice.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: And then you'll struggle with self sabotage and success as
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: it falls.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: It's so good because you never had practice. Never had practice, practice,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: practice winning. Practice with your five hundred dollars, practice with
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: your one hundred dollars, practice with your fably, practice winning,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: so that when it comes more it will overdo you.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: You'll be familiar with it and it won't be your God.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Brother, listen and see how quiet glory be to God Man,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Glory King came in here and cooked.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Glory be to God Man.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Oh glory, God cook sir dessert. I will tell y'all
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: get on to die because y'all full glory be to
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: God Man Man. In closing, always ask this question. Oh
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: you know, the name of the podcast shows just Heal.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I remember my therapist
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: asking me was Jay, what does healing mean for you?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And at that time I said emotional freedom, to be
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: free within my emotions, to express them and to not
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: be incarcerated. And I want to ask you that question,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: what does healing means for you?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Very quick on my tongue, because I live in it.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I heal as our, I heal as I reveal. Because
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: you have to participate in your own recovery. You can
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: go to the best doctor in the world. Every great
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: doctor has one thing in uniformity, that they say, tell
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: me where it hurts. Yep, you gotta participate. You gotta participate.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: That's so so quick to tell my business. That's what's
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: so quick to talk about my my my my losses
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: and my mistakes of my past, because it heals me. See,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: you can't use nothing against me that I already gave myself.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I told it, You're to tell it. So I control
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: my narrative. Man, I control my narrative, and I control
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: the process of my healing because I'm gonna tell it.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: So I heal as I reveal, and it heals me.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And I say this often, you can't heal what you hide, Yes, sir, yes, sir,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: and sir.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: King black man, my brother, when I tell you you
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: have I don't even have a word to describe what
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: just happened here. I know this. I needed it, and
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I hope that you needed this as well. For the
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: men that are watching. My hope for you is that
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: you listen to this over and over and over and over.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important for us allow things to
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: penetrate our spirit and to penetrate our minds. Scientifically, the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: heart sends more messages to the brain, more so than
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the brains send messages to the heart. And what am
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I saying with that a lot of our hearts have
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: been broken, and when you have a broken heart, the
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: messages that are sent to your brains are fractured, and
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: sometimes the messages are distorted. And what I'm hoping through
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: this episode that you're able to reframe. That's the word
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: we use in clinical term, and reframe is not to change,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: but it's really to change the picture and to change
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: where the picture is being seen from. Because I can
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: look at something head on, but if I change position,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: it looks different. And one of the things that I
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: often do with clients and I'll say, I'm going to
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: reframe this for you. I'm not changing your story, but
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I'll change your position in the story, so the story
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily look different, but your view of yourself in
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the story shifts. So I'm hoping that there's a shift
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: that takes place when you listen to this episode and
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: when you watch it, and even for our women, because
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: you just got to hear two men openly share our journeys,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: our journeys of success, failures, our insecurities, our thoughts, and
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: as my good brother said, I'll try because We're all trying.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Until next time, Kurt, I just want to say, brother,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: thank you. Was me dinner too? Oh well we was
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: in California, NA, but I oh you dinner. But I'm
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: looking forward to breaking bread man and continue to build
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: on this friendship. Man. You we don't have a way
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: that Louis now? Yeah? Are you? Yeah? For y'all that
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: don't know Louis, they used to have this. What if
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that crusted fish?
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that it's a rectang rectang my god?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Today did you like that?
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: What?
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Man? That fish was banging? Man? Oh, that fish was banking.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: You put a little tard on the top.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Oh man, it is And Genteral, thank you for tuning
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: in shirt today.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Please chewing in next time.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: But man, listen, thank you guys for tuning in to
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: another episode to just here with doctor J. This has
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: been phenomenal and I'm being transparent. I needed this today
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: because the headspace that I was in is that I
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: didn't know if I wanted to keep trying in this
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: space and not because I couldn't. But sometime it's heavy
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: because we can make things look light. Yeah, and doesn't
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: mean it that it is. And so until next time
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: remember healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Just Heal with Doctor J, a production of the Black
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: favorite shows. And you can follow me at King J.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Just Heal Doctor J.