Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Waiting Forward | a conversation with author Christine Hoover

Transcript

Waiting Forward | a conversation with author Christine Hoover · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:17
SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: And if you are new here, we are so glad you've joined us.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Ashley Pittman and I, Amy Wicks, are your hosts.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: We believe we are all on a journey to live out the call, love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Our desire is to inspire and equip you to live an unplugged, purposeful, and intentional life.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: We hope to inspire you by sharing stories of friends who are living out their calling and purpose with passion.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Thanks to our friends from Enter the Worship Circle, Vin Pasley and Carla Adolph wrote the music that you're hearing in the background.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: It's their song Heavenly Things from their album Down Here and Up Above.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, spring in Kansas City has been interesting this year.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Late freezes and April snow showers has had us keeping our wood stove burning and preventing us from long walks and outside play.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: We did have enough break in the weather for the buds and blooms to begin to make their appearance.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad I got a few photos before the frost hit, because some of those once colorful buds are now burnt and withered.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: It's sad.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: In an honest conversation with one of my sisters, it's a little bit like a few situations in our life.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: It seemed as if spring was coming.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: We could see the buds of hope, but then a frost hit, killing what felt alive with hope.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And once again it feels like winter.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: Winter is not altogether bad.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Really, I mean it gives us a chance to hibernate, and the root growth beneath the surface helps us weather the hot summers and breezy falls.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: But winter is also tough and can feel dead and hopeless.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: I realize all the seasonal talk is not totally uncharacteristic.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: But what is a little out of the norm is the conversation you're about to hear.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Christine Hoover, who is so lovely and so kind, she had no clue that she was gonna encounter a weeping emotional host, but that's exactly what happened.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: To be honest, I'm really tempted to not share this conversation.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: My natural bent is to be one full of hope, and I find the happy endings.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: But as you and I know, life does not always tie up neatly with a pretty bow.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm searching for spring in some areas of my life.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And for some of these things, it's been 20 years of what feels like unanswered prayer.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: In the end, there are seeds of hope, and I can find and point out the signs of spring in the lives of others, in the history of my life, and in other areas of my life.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm experiencing full blown.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: One of those blessings is the women of the Simply Wholehearted Collective.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, one, they are the ones encouraging me to go ahead and share this podcast.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: And two, if you've been following us on our new Instagram and Facebook page, you may have run across a local event we are excited to support and attend.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Katie Roselli has been working tirelessly on an event to benefit the Whiteman Spouses Club, which provides resources to military spouses and families.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: The cornerstone of their giving is their scholarship program.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: So if you are in the Kansas City area, we would love to have you join us on May 3rd to hear from author Rachel Macy Stafford.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: She wrote the New York Times bestselling book Hands Free Mama and the Hands Free Life and Only Love Today.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: She has some great messages.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And you can find out the details for this event in our show notes and of course on our Instagram and Facebook page.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: We would love to see you there.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: So whether you are currently searching for spring or walking through the journey with someone else, or perhaps you're enjoying the beauty of full bloom in your life, I pray you will be blessed by this very raw conversation with Christine Hoover.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: The book is beautiful.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: I know I love the cover.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy with what I mean.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Well you get to you get to sort of influence some of that, right?
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Did you have a vision head of time?
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, on this one, uh the last few, they kind of only gave me one option.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: And then this this one they gave me several options and I said no to all of them the first time.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: And then they did not like them at all.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: And then they came back with that one, and I was like, that's it.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: It's good to have your name and your words.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: You want it to, you know what?
4:33
SPEAKER_03: You want to love it?
4:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you want to have it in a good reflex.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: A fourth.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Well by now, two ebooks, and then this one.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: No, I did uh one.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: This is number four.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: The ebooks are separate from that number.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, but I have one on church planting because we planted a church and there's nothing for wives of church planners.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: And then I did one called From Good to Grace, just about kind of my story of coming out of legalism and understanding the true gospel.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: That was too much.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am a daughter of a church planter.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: And now I am a part of a church plant here in Kansas City.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh good friends.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: So What's the name of it?
5:24
SPEAKER_01: It's Radiant Church.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're an ARC church, number 600 or something, and now they have, I don't know, 700 and something.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: But do you know Sarah Higgerty?
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that how we got connected?
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we got connected because your publicist sent me, Karen sent me a copy of your book, um, and she had a bunch of others.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: But I've been following you because of Sarah.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Um I helped her.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I wrote the book study for Unseen, and then I was part of the launch team, which I think you were part, you were part of the launch team, right?
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was in that Facebook group.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I kind of yeah, I don't know that I was like on the official launch team, but I did.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: She gave me a copy, and I I love Sarah and I love her writing.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: So yes.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: How do you know Sarah then?
6:14
unknown: Because of that.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: She lived, I live in Charlottesville, Virginia, and she lived here for a while, but not we didn't know each other when she lived here, but we had a a good good family friends that we both were good friends with.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: So we we met, I met her one day at their house, but they were just visiting.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gotcha.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: So they had already moved to Kansas City, and it was just through through that friend, yeah, we just kind of started talking online.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I've she had to come back once, and so I got to see her.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: And but I don't I feel like I'm still getting to know her a little bit because we, you know, but I love her.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Do you use Boxer then to communicate?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Because like Sarah and Voxer almost synonymous.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: No, you know what?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that I've connected with her on Boxer, but just over email.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that's how I first heard about you.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And then I just started following, you know, Instagram.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometimes that just kind of pops up and is like, oh yeah, I want to, I wanna see what she's doing.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And then um, and it was so fun.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And I saw and I didn't realize you had the other books, and I saw the searching for spring that was coming out.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, ooh, we should have her on the podcast, and probably I don't know, I just didn't have space to like do that ask, you know, it was like on my list, and then your publicist went ahead and had already set me up.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, perfect, already done in my mind.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't even need to read the book.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks so much for inviting me to come on.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: I want to, I want to share with everyone kind of your story, and um, you know, I've got I always have lots of questions.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh Ashley was enjoying reading and listening to your podcast.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I was listening to your podcast.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: I listened to the one where your husband interviewed you about the book, and that was interesting.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, that was fun.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: He was nervous, but he's he did great.
8:06
SPEAKER_03: He didn't sound nervous.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking at the beginning, he sounds like he's been doing this.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: So he's a bastard.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: He's you could say for the planter, so he's accustomed to talking to the people that helps.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, but that was probably my most fun one was sitting with him.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Having a conversation.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: You sent me on a search for a book too.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm now, although I want to read this one too because I loved it.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, she's my people.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: When you just started describing it, I was like, oh, I'm gonna like this one.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: And I read this and I was like, oh, Ashley's gonna love this book.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: And then the one you mentioned one called Lessons from a Tilta World.
8:37
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm gonna find that one too.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Because Yes, it's called Notes from a Tilbury.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: It is probably my favorite book.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Really?
8:46
SPEAKER_02: But it's very unique, and so some people don't like it because they don't understand it.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: But therefore Ashley will like it.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm just yeah because he just take he just starts talking, and you're like, where is he going with this?
9:01
SPEAKER_02: It just goes, it's a tilt world, you feel like you're on a tilt whirl.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then suddenly it all comes together and it just is beautiful.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I love stuff like that.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: So if you like sounds like you might like it, yeah, it's it's just beautiful.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Why did you decide to write a book, not just do the pot a podcast for it or or even blog posts?
9:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what was what was that journey for you?
9:27
SPEAKER_02: This book really was birthed out of a time where I was walking alongside a friend who was going through some really difficult things in her family life, her marriage.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: And she would ask me very honest questions.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Is this what God has for me the rest of my life?
9:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, do I does he want me to be happy?
9:46
SPEAKER_02: Or she was really struggling with a lot of questions of faith.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: I would say a crisis of faith.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: And because I was so close to her, I was kind of asking those questions too, because I'm thinking, how do I respond to her?
9:59
SPEAKER_02: How do is what I believe true?
10:03
SPEAKER_02: And is it something that can hold her and that she can cling to and she can navigate this difficult situation that she's in?
10:15
SPEAKER_02: And so at the same time, I was reading Ecclesiastes and I came across the verse.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: That's perfect.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: The the poem that's you know, there's a time for everything, but then there's this verse that says that God makes all things beautiful in time.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: And as I'm talking to her, I'm thinking, how does this fit together?
10:33
SPEAKER_02: How is how could God make something beautiful out of suffering, pain, betrayal, hurt, and and how what do what can I offer her?
10:46
SPEAKER_02: What does our faith in Christ offer her?
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And so we were having those discussions, and I just that I really wrote this book for her.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, just to say, how do we live this life that is hard at times?
11:02
SPEAKER_02: We all go through things that are difficult and painful.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: How do we live this life believing that God really is gonna make something beautiful out of that pain and out of us and the mess that we ourselves have made of our lives?
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Can He really do that?
11:19
SPEAKER_02: And how do we, in a sense, the whole book is about waiting.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: How do we wait by faith believing he's going to do that?
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's good.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I'm like tearing up over here.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, because oh my gosh, this is usually Ashley's job to like cry and blubber.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just a very interesting season for me.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I honestly I picked up your book and I started reading it and I didn't want to read it because I felt like it was heading too close to home.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: And I started reading it again this morning.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I know I'm struggling with this because I'm walking through a lot of waiting, but I'm also walking through a lot of people who are with it.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's like there are no bad answers.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: No, no, there are no like Krishanese.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna help them.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: And for some of these people, it's been I feel like it's been 60 years, but it's been for sure 20 years of of searching for a spring.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Of like, what, why this Lord?
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Why is this their road?
12:40
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: So anyway.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: It's hard, it's hard to be that friend.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: It's hard when we encounter it, but it's also hard to be that friend because we can't fix it.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: We can't there's no words that's that's that are gonna make it better, and we just have to sit in it with them, and that is so hard.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Because I think I think we question if God is really there and is he is he real and is he really gonna do that?
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And that those are the questions that come up when we're encountering this kind of pain.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we we want to know that I think it made me question is God true?
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Is he real?
13:23
SPEAKER_02: And I I in the end it was good to question.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't think it's wrong to to sit in that and to think, I don't know, and I don't know what to say, and I don't know if I even believe, but I think that's where we really encounter the truth of God and his gospel in a way we can't experience it when we're when we're not when we're not in suffering or our friend next to a friend who's suffering.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you can like you experience the answers to prayer like sometimes so quickly.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: It's like wow, I didn't even have to like you know, languish in that prayer.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have to continue to ask.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: It was just so like speedy and quick, and he was he was quick to save, you know, whatever those situations are, and then there's those other things that like I I see you act this way, Lord, I see you answer this way and therefore I know your character, but it doesn't always jive with sometimes these other things, and um it's hard to it's hard to wrestle with that, it's hard to wrestle with the Lord in that of like okay, I know I know you're good, I I've experienced your goodness, I experience hope, but these don't always life's experiences don't always drive with that truth.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think that we find at some point in our life we find that God is unexpected, that He does things that are confusing and unexpected.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's where in my own life I have come to realize that the way that I would desire life and the way that I would define beauty is not always the correct definition or the right way that God He we can look at the cross and see that He allowed pain and suffering for Jesus so that for the joy set before him and that he would bring many sons to glory.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: And so the most beautiful gift ever given to us came through suffering and death, and those are not things that we desire, we run from, we spend our whole life trying to avoid.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I think that that is where often God is his beauty is shown and where we experience the depth of his character in a way that we never would have otherwise.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: And that's not something that we nobody's wants that, nobody's seeking that.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: But but I think we have to redefine what what is beautiful, and and what is beautiful is hope and and perseverance and endurance and faith, and those are things that come through pain and suffering.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you wrote I had to look it up because I actually read this this morning.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I don't know exactly where this is in the book.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll put in the notes or something if someone wants to look it up, but um you have answered prayer because I think this is what I went, but they're still left with unconsolable things unfixed.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think you wrote, um, instead he asked you to go all in on a promise of unexpected beauty sprouting up through our affliction.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: He asked us to shift our eyes from tangible to an invisible hope.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's like I'm like, oh dang it.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: And that is that's the challenge and the work of the Christian for their for our life, our whole lives.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be working that out.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: But that's where we're going.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: The the the finish line for us and what we will most value when we stand before Christ are those intangible things that have been made sight.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: And and that's the work, that's our work as a Christian is to wrestle with those things and and move toward a a deeper faith.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Because of what it produces in the end.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: And I think you mentioned inconsolable things.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that is what we're describing.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: That we're describing that there are things in this life that we can never fix, that we have circumstances in our lives.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: I have a child with special needs.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: I that suffering will always be with me.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's not that every day is is horrible, it's that there are times where I get sad again because of what it means for him and for me and for our family.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: And I see how it's a challenge for him, but but I also I also now can see how it's a joy too.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: But but it's an inconsolable thing because it won't it's not gonna change.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: And and that those are the hard things for uh the the most difficult things for us are that Jesus left us with unfixed things.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is what I think the thing is, is like it always goes back to it's like that's not what he desired.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Like that wasn't his plan.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: And and that's the whole stink of it.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: And that's where the hope piece comes in of like, no, it's it's not what he intended.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And so many of this that he wishes that he could stop or you know, hold back, but instead he because we're in the fallen world that we're in, he's like, Well, we're gonna walk through this together and we're gonna come out on the other side with great things, but it's just not no, it's not ever gonna be perfect.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: And and I think you even talk about like sometimes that Russell, like we think if we could just do this, or if we could just, you know, like fix this or fix that or achieve that, then we'll go like ta-da, here we go.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's the whole thing of it.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: I do think that we have sometimes a mistaken idea of what Jesus said and what we and we we attribute things to him that he didn't say.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think you just alluded to it is that we think that we are if we have enough faith or if we do the right things, that we are going to eventually reach some level of life that we can escape the realities of the fallen world, and that's not what Jesus said.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: In this world you will have trouble.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but take heart, I have overcome the world.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And that is the promise that he is with us by his spirit, that he will help us, he will walk with us, he will strengthen and empower us to endure.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: And the promises that that he will make all things beautiful in time, and that time, the full beauty is the new heavens and the new earth.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that we we have this mistaken belief that oh, if I just become a Christian, that makes everything better.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Or you know, if I just have enough faith, that makes everything, that'll make everything better.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: And that'll that'll change my circumstances.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: God will will respond to me by not allowing me to have suffering.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: And none of those things are true.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: And like our good friend Sarah, he redefines our circumstances, he doesn't change them.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And we so often want him to change them, but yeah, he does want to help us be able to persevere through it.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: He's not just like, oh well, you go figure it out.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh he has made a way.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Um and he does that in in goodness, he doesn't change our circumstances sometimes, and and that is his goodness to us, yeah, because those are the things that will produce perseverance and hope in us.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: That's what he says uh in the word, it says in Romans five, I think that that's those are the things that come out of that.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: That as we submit to him and his plan as good for us, that uh it will produce good things in us.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes, amen.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's true.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's I mean, I think that's even the beauty of um this podcast is that so much of what we get to share is the beauty part of it.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: The beauty of those who push through.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like you said, this this book was you journeying through this with your friend, obviously our own stuff because we all have our own stuff.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And you probably honestly, I mean, just in your position within the church as a pastor's wife, that's like every day.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're probably every day there is someone who is coming to you and or your husband and like needing help through those difficult times.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And so it's all around us.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: And at some I think that's the thing, is too, is that you may you may have um dealt, you know, in a certain area of your life and walked through it and you have found spring, but then there is another thing that you're going to have to walk through where you experience death and waiting.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And you know, you're gonna be searching for the answer for that.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: So and it's also that's in his goodness that we're like, okay.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a lot, but usually, usually it's just like one thing at a time that he is allowing us to go through all of that.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: So all right.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, don't say he didn't warn you that this would be a weepy conversation.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And I almost hate to interrupt, but it might be a good chance to take a break while I share a little bit about my Anneagram coaching journey.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: I was just telling someone the other day how I really want to use this knowledge I'm at gaining to help other moms use the understanding about their true selves to be the parents they were created to be.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: I think so often we're ashamed of how we parent because we compare ourselves to others, but way too often it's just our parenting style and how our personality is.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think the Lord really wants us to discover the fullness of this, to live as one loved and adopted by God, and to be able to fully pass that truth along to our children.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that would be powerful, right?
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, until I can begin a wait list for coaching options, be sure and check out all that Beth McCord offers at youranigramcoach.com and find a discount code for her introductory programs in the show notes.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: And now back to our conversation with Christine Hoover.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: And we can look to those things that the I call them little deaths and little resurrections.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: It's not just we're waiting for Jesus to come back for everything to be made beautiful.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: He's doing little resurrections in our lives and in our friends' lives.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: And we need to look to those things and celebrate them and remember how God did that because that's a little picture of what he's gonna do fully in time.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, there are things where he he's acting and he's moving and he's changed, he does sometimes change circumstances or uh release us from this, the full weight of our suffering.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that those are those are great pictures that we need to share with each other, yes, which is great what you're doing with your podcast, sharing stories of how God has redeemed and how he has reconciled, and those are little resurrections, little pictures of totally full resurrection to come.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have a a real special prayer group, and you know, it obviously the point of it is to pray for one another.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of times the emphasis is uh hard things, but we I don't know, maybe six months ago, we're like, hey, you know, why don't we start also sharing the praises and the answers to prayer?
25:45
SPEAKER_01: And and even before then, because we were so intimately involved in praying for big things for these friends, we were able to watch how the Lord answered and met, you know, the cry of their heart or this answered this prayer.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: And it has so encouraged me and provoked my faith.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And even like the things that they're learning in one one friend was like, um, their word was to not resign in prayer, you know, for a family member or family members.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, oh, that's it.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: That's that's my word too.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna resign in prayer, and just you know, but it's those, like you said, the little resurrection, those little hopeful, you know, like, oh yeah, he's he's still at work, he's still on his throne, he's still God, he's still good, he's doing this, even if it's not happening in my own life, my faith can be enlarged and encouraged by watching him, you know, his work and those good fruit that spring in my friend's life, even if I'm not there yet, if I'm still looking for it for my own.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things in the book I talk a lot about is that God has given us signposts that we can see, we can look at.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: And one is creation, that we can, we can look out our window, or we can, we can go to the mountains or to the beach, or just walk in a city and see the diversity of people he's created.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: And those are all signposts that show us that God is that He's still He's still there.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: He's He exists and He's engaged because He's sustaining those things.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we get so distracted and so we get distracted just by the mundane of life, but also uh by the circumstances and wishing these things would change, that we miss that God is everywhere around us every day, sustaining, sustaining our putting air in our lungs that we can breathe.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: And these are things we take for granted.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: But if we if God wasn't actively working and and if he was sleeping on the job, we we wouldn't be able to take our next breath.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's why the seasons are so important that why I use that analogy in the book is that we can look at the stars and we can look at the birds and know that God is giving them what they need.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: And if He if He cares about them, then He how much more does He care about us and will be with us and will sustain us and protect us and provide for us and all the things that we we need.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's why it's important to stop sometimes and just pay attention to the small things of just even looking at at our skin and and being amazed that there's no there's no hem or seam on our skin.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Or yes, it's you know watching the buds.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: I can look out my window right now and see the buds on the trees that spring is coming back and that life is new again.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: And those are all pictures of God's presence that we we can't see him, but we can see that he's still at work.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the just yeah, his fingerprints, his handiwork.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: We can see it all around for if we're looking forward to it.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: So, and then how do you like you know, this is very real?
29:03
SPEAKER_01: The the concept of not singing songs to a um broken heart, you know.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you encourage those walking through those who are feeling despair?
29:14
SPEAKER_01: How do you speak hope and life and truth in the midst of that without singing songs to a heavy heart?
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good question.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a really a huge challenge to to do and to do well.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we're gonna do it perfectly, and so we just have to go in with a prayerful heart that God would help us to know when to speak and what to say and how and when to not speak.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: I was just talking to a friend of mine who lost her husband when she was in her 40s, and she said, now that I have walked through that, I say a whole lot less than I used to.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: I bet.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: So I think presence just, you know, think about even embodying the presence of God, that the presence, our presence in a friend's life, just to sit with them and to listen to to, you know, I remember sitting with my friend and just some of the things she would say, it was so raw.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: And it was so hard to hear and to not want to pull her back or rein her in with, but this is what the Bible says, or this is what's true.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: It it's so hard to not do that.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: But I think just sitting and listening and letting those raw thoughts come out and not not running away from them because we feel uncomfortable.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: I think that has to happen over time to know as we sit with our friends and we're present with them and we listen, the time will come when you can say, Yeah, this is what's true.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: But it sometimes it there's there needs to be a lot of time of just presence.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: And so um that's what I was sitting with it is hard.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and for most of us, you know, Ashley jokes about because she's an Aneagram for, and so she's like, This is her jam, this is her thing, and but I mean just recently um had this ordeal with my daughters and um this drama, so it was drama for the drama that we've called it, and um, it was like the craziest circumstances, and I literally with one of my girls, I had to sit in a chair with her on my lap and just let her sob and wail and cry and say terrible things that I knew were not, you know, obviously are truth, and I wanted to correct them as a mom.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: It was like, wait a minute, you can't believe that lie.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: But she wasn't gonna hear it, she wasn't gonna be convinced otherwise.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And it took a great deal of just like, thank you, Jesus, I had the grace to do it.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: And I just can see now, a couple weeks later, how it it took hours and she was able to do what she needed to do.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And then it took days and even a couple weeks to like fully work through it and then be able to take the opportunity to speak truth and plant like seeds of truth.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I because I think sometimes being able to say that it's almost like it's that's the uprooting process of lies.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Like we have to just be able to speak doubt and go, okay, I got it out.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe that wasn't so bad because it was just doubt, and I just need to get out there, and part of me now knows how ridiculous that was because I uprooted it and I spoke it and then I'm done and move on.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's hard.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's plenty of us too who just don't want to sit in it with ourselves, much less something else.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: It takes so much trust for a friend to listen to your child or your friend say raw emotional things that they're feeling.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: We have to, we in those moments, I'm just Lord, I trust you, I trust you with my friend.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: I trust you that you are going to help her.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: And maybe you'll use me, maybe not, but I I'm entrust, it's in my mind, I'm entrusting her to the Lord and knowing that He will not let her go.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: It's not up to me to pull her back.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: It's it's up to him ultimately.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: And of course, I'm gonna speak truth when he leads me and gives me opportunity to do that, but I think that's one thing we can do for our friends to do is just when we're listening and we're present, we can also just remind them that it's okay to grieve, it's okay to have these emotions.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: And and God wants them, God wants those emotions.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: And so the psalms are our example of people pouring out their emotions and their true thoughts and their honest feelings, and and we can encourage our friends to do the same before God because ultimately we're not going to be able to meet the deep needs of the soul, yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: But but God can, and so just encouraging them to pour their hearts out to Him, and maybe we lead the way and praying with them and just we weep and voice to God what we're hearing them say, but but we lead them to the one who can minister to them.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: We can be a gateway to the ultimate safest place, and I think we too.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: I was just even thinking about this um for the last 24 hours, but um we do want to run to a safe place, we wanna run to that high tower, and we often look for it in people and we can't.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's almost the whole point of sometimes these things of like no one can give you the answer, not a person can make it all go away or make you feel better or give the solution.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: There's only one strong high tower at that is gonna be the ultimate.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: I often look to people to rescue me from it.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, what say if they'll just say if they say the thing that's gonna make me feel better, it's gonna rescue me from it.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: Or sometimes I feel like, yes, or I feel like I go to my husband and think that he can he can make it better for me, he can rescue me from, and I'm the only one who can walk through what God has asked me to walk through.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: And and he's that's him drawing him, drawing me to him, yeah, and saying, Let me show you how strong I am, let me show you how I can sit in in your grief and I can handle your deepest hurts and wounds.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't run away from that, and I think that's it's in our suffering that we realize there are people who will run away, yeah.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: But God runs to the brokenhearted, he runs toward us in it, and we find him there, and he he can handle it.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: He can handle everything that we feel and we think and we question.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: He can handle it.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: He can take he can take the doubts, he can take the he can take the the ugly cry.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: He can yeah, that's already happened too much today.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, there's obviously so much we you know, we stayed on here a while and I I know that your book isn't just about sitting in it.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: There's you know the thread of hope woven throughout um the book.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it is pointing just to the word of God again and again and again.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And and I did I that um verse, he makes all things beautiful in his time.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: I kept thinking of the salty song as I don't know if you grew up in the church, but as a kid, it was like Salty the Singing Songbook, and I've heard of Salty, but I don't think I know the song.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: I won't even sing it, but he makes all things beautiful in his time, and so I've known as such a so it's a little kid, and I used to like uh think it was um the Bible verse version of like the ugly duckling.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: And I used to agree with that, it's not.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, sure, there's like some truth to that, but it's all about this, it's all about you know him um using our stories, our circumstances, and all these sort of things.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: So you've you really have woman hope um through all of it.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but for you, I mean, y you lived it certainly probably again and again.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be the last time where you're searching for spring in your life, you're walking through friends.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: For you, how what are just some of the obstacles that you choose to overcome at this point?
37:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, you have some of that knowledge, and what's what is it that you you know that you have to practice to overcome the obstacle of, you know, when not despair, but also too, and just finding that hope and reaching for that hope?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna sound so cliche, but the word of God, I no, that's good.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: I came to a place about when we planted our church about 10 years ago, where I realized the word of God is not just something I go to when I need a little dash of hope or I need a little, you know, check off something for my day.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: It was it became my lifeline, my anchor.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: I began to relate to it more as this is my authority, you know, I'm placing myself under the authority of God's word rather than I'm the authority of God's word.
38:37
SPEAKER_02: And that that changed it for me because it became, first of all, I got to know it more.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and what the big picture of the Bible is.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: I did not have that before.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: And when I got to know the Bible, I got to know God and I got to know his character and that he is faithful.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: It is woven in every every word of God's word.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: It is about his faithfulness, and so I can trust him.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: And reminding myself of that every day by going to his word and and seeing who he is, that that is my hope.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: That is my only hope because I'm so prone to turning to myself, to be independent of God, to be self-sustaining, to perform, to try to earn things from people, from him.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm prone to distraction, uh, prone to doubt, you know, and so though that anchors me in my day to remember, okay, remember the big picture, Hurstine.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: The big picture is that God is redeeming things, that God is at work, that it's not up to you, that you can rest in his work on your behalf, that he loves you and you don't have anything to prove.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: And those are the things that give me hope.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: And I need that reminder every single day because I forget it every single day.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh, that's so good.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: I normally don't do this, but I I just feel like with this topic it's really appropriate, and maybe it's because it's my own need.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: But I'd love it if you would close us in prayer, because I just think that those who are walking through their winter and and searching for spring are gonna need that.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, sure.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Father, we thank you that you do not sleep and you do not slumber, that you are always at work, even when we are asleep and when we are incapacitated from doing anything, if we're incapacitated by depression or anxiety or pain, that you are still on your throne and that you are still at work bringing about the end, the finish line that we're all moving toward, that when all things will be made right, when all injustices will be set right, when we will see with our eyes who you are, and that you were worth every ounce of faith that we could live with in this life.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I pray for those who are suffering, who are uncertain, who don't know what to do, where to turn, who are just spilling forth emotions and questions.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: I pray, God, that you would receive them as they turn to you and that you would run toward them in their brokenheartedness and you would minister to them, you would comfort them.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: I pray that they would find you in the word and that those truths would be a solid foundation and an anchor for them in their circumstances.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: God, I pray that they would believe by faith that there are good things to come out of these bad things, these things that they wish were not there.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: I pray that you would produce in them perseverance and endurance and hope and joy and peace, knowing that they serve a God who is faithful at all times and never stops being faithful.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: So I ask, Lord, that you would speak some truth to them that would help them to navigate this day and that would help them just take a step forward by faith.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: Lord, make us people who are characterized by faith.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I pray all these things in Jesus' name.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: That was beautiful.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Christine.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed so much.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Apologize, I really didn't expect to be such a basket case.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: But I appreciate it.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: It was obviously timely.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not your fault.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Like God, no, I'm just sorry that you're going through whatever you're going through and your friends are.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: It's just yeah.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: It is, it is hard, and it's life, like you said.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: But I've got 30 minutes before my first kiddo comes home.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna enjoy the 30 minutes and work on finishing your book.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, thank you for having me.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: I really I just love the message of it.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: I know that you know, just even like the power of the prayer going forth and being multiplied is just what's so cool about a record of prayer.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: So trying over and over again.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: That's really powerful.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well to meeting you someday in person for happy.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me too.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: All right, enjoy your 30 minutes.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: I will have a good one.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: You too.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much if you made it all the way through this.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: And if you had to grab some cleanings part way through, well, know that my heart and my empathy is with you.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even a little bit stretching the truth that when I started her book, I really didn't want to continue.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I knew that I was in for an emotional roller coaster.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: But I have read her beautiful words and I feel strengthened in my faith.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: There is so much more, but I wanted to share this part from her book, Searching for Spring, how God makes all things beautiful in time.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: Christine writes, we're limited by seasons and cycles.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: This is meant to be encouraging.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: It's as if God is allowing us to rest while he does the heavy lifting.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: We don't have to navigate or figure.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: We don't have to calculate.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: He expects that we'll trust his heart and intentions and lie down as clay on the potter's wheel.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: It seems as if this posture of trust and submission is the only way we can rest.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Really rest with inconsolable things roiling in our hearts.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: I hope that you will be sure to buy her book and maybe one of the other titles that might bless you.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: We'll be sure to put all the ways to find her in our show notes.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: And if this conversation, well, if it provoked something in you or resonated with you, there's a few more like it that I think you might enjoy.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: One of my all-time favorites and probably one of the top five downloaded episodes of ours is episode eight.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: It's why we adore our conversation with Sarah Hagerty.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: And yes, she's a friend, but I think you'll really love her concept about adoration.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: And adoration doesn't just mean praising God in the good times.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot there.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to listen to it.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: In episode 21 with Natalie Brenner, she wrote The Undeserved Life.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: We talk about grief and how to walk others through it.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: And episode 27 with Jamie Emerine, Stolen Jesus.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: There's a ton there as well, and I think you'll be blessed by that conversation.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: So while you're there in the show notes or poking around on our new Instagram or the website, would you take a quick minute and leave us a rating or just leave a comment?
45:51
SPEAKER_01: It really helps others know that they're welcome in our community and what to expect as they're listening from us.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Recently, Nikki Burns left this review on our Facebook page.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: She said, I love these ladies and their hearts for the Lord.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know them personally, but their authenticity and desire for movement of the Holy Spirit is inspiring and encouraging.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Wow, thank you, Nikki.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: We so appreciate this.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: It means a lot to get feedback from you all, and we're so grateful that we get to share these inspiring messages.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: So, until next week, we hope you'll be joining us as we discover more ways to live a simply wholehearted life.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: Unplugged, purposeful, and intentional.