Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Derek Shulman: Gentle Giant Leader, Record Exec Who Launched Bon Jovi & Re-Booted AC/DC [Episode 339]

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Derek Shulman: Gentle Giant Leader, Record Exec Who Launched Bon Jovi & Re-Booted AC/DC [Episode 339] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Speaker 1: He was the leader of the progressive rock pioneers Gentle
0:03
Speaker 1: Giant went onto a record label career where he discovered Bond, Jovie,
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Speaker 1: Dream Theater, Pantera, and orchestrated the comebacks by the band's
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Speaker 1: ac DC and Bad Company in the nineties. It's Derek
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Speaker 1: Shulman next on Booke Don Rock.
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Speaker 2: We're totally rock and roll. I mean gotta leave you.
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Speaker 1: You're reading Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll.
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Speaker 2: Roll up, I totally booked.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to book, Don Rock, the podcast for those
0:35
Speaker 1: about to read and rock, Eric Senach. Our guest is
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Speaker 1: Derek Shulman, author of the book Giant Steps, My Improbable
0:42
Speaker 1: Journey from Stage Lights to Executive Heights. Welcome to the podcast.
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Speaker 2: Eric, my plaguer to see you, Eric, great book.
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Speaker 1: Congratulations. We're just chatting a little bit about how the
0:51
Speaker 1: book's been doing and the responses have been great. I'm
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Speaker 1: not surprised. There are so many stories. You've had quite
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Speaker 1: a career, so I've been told, let's start with the
1:00
Speaker 1: beginning your childhood, where you grew up, because your father
1:04
Speaker 1: had such an impact on you, both while he was
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Speaker 1: around and after he passed away, and that really hit
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Speaker 1: me because I was very close to my dad and
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Speaker 1: he meant so much to me. I lost him about
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Speaker 1: three years ago. You talk about his death at such
1:18
Speaker 1: a young age had a profound effect on you.
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Speaker 2: Yes, it did. I mean he was a professional musician.
1:25
Speaker 2: He was a jazz trumpeter, and he had a band,
1:28
Speaker 2: and I was full of life. I mean, effectively. I'll
1:32
Speaker 2: tell you that quick story. And you know, one morning
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Speaker 2: he would get up early, and he was a heavy
1:39
Speaker 2: smoker and like a jazz you know, a jazz musician,
1:44
Speaker 2: a bit of a drinker. Not an alcoholic, but certainly drink. Hearing,
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Speaker 2: and yeah, he was woke up one morning I think
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Speaker 2: in May and sixty five, and my mother said, he's
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Speaker 2: not feeling well. And I was I was the man
2:01
Speaker 2: of the man of the house per se then and
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Speaker 2: I went to see what was wrong, and my mother say,
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Speaker 2: he went back to bed, and that's someone like my father.
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Speaker 2: And when I went upstairs, I can see that he
2:14
Speaker 2: was very very ill. So I basically ran down from
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Speaker 2: the stairs, jumped over the wall, the garden wall where
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Speaker 2: my brother Phil was living, believe it, on the next door.
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Speaker 2: I said, can you come over quick? My dad, Dad
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Speaker 2: is really he looks really sick. We both jumped over
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Speaker 2: and he was. He was gasping for air and basically
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Speaker 2: he was well I know now, you know, as I
2:40
Speaker 2: explained in the book, that he was having a massive,
2:43
Speaker 2: a massive heart attack. So I didn't know that then.
2:45
Speaker 2: We just thought, what the hell's going on? Feels like,
2:48
Speaker 2: go get a doctor. So I literally ran about two
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Speaker 2: hundred yards that where I knew the doctor lived, and
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Speaker 2: we did up the phone and we had we had
2:56
Speaker 2: nothing going on, and I knocked the door and said,
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Speaker 2: my dad's please can you come He actually it was
3:03
Speaker 2: about six thirty or six forty five in the morning,
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Speaker 2: and I ran back and when I arrived back, I
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Speaker 2: ran upstairs and my brother Phil and myself literally saw
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Speaker 2: him take his last breath, and it was you know.
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Speaker 2: The doctor ultimately arrived and we said, is there anything
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Speaker 2: he could do? We did that. We didn't have a
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Speaker 2: telephone in those days. We're talking about, you know, days
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Speaker 2: of not very wealthy, let's put it that way, right
3:30
Speaker 2: Poperty in.
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Speaker 1: Fact Glasgow, Scotland was Pormuth.
3:34
Speaker 2: In the was in England. Basically, we saw him take
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Speaker 2: his last breath and the doctor said, there's no point
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Speaker 2: in calling an ambulance when he's gone, and and I
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Speaker 2: just remember that that shaped my life in so many ways.
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Speaker 2: Number One, that you lose a father at a young
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Speaker 2: you know, fair. I was fourteen or fifteen and very
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Speaker 2: sort of you know, in a bad time for to
4:01
Speaker 2: lose any any parent. But you know, but at the
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Speaker 2: same time, it affected me personally because I saw what,
4:15
Speaker 2: how can I put this, He was a drinker, and
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Speaker 2: he smoked weight fifty cigarette fifty six or sixty cigarettes
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Speaker 2: a day. And the fact that he died at fifty
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Speaker 2: years old, in the prime of his life and the
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Speaker 2: prime of his a creative life made me. Number One
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Speaker 2: traumatized me because I have a health anxiety for all
4:37
Speaker 2: my life, which I explained in the book. And number
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Speaker 2: two that I not made the decision. The decision was
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Speaker 2: made that I would never allow myself to be in
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Speaker 2: a position where I would, you know, let any kind
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Speaker 2: of substance abuse if you like, and you know not
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Speaker 2: that drinking or smoking, well are is considered sub abused,
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Speaker 2: But certainly that was a big factor in my life.
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Speaker 2: And I have never smoked in my life, and neither
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Speaker 2: had my siblings by the way, after that day, and
5:11
Speaker 2: rarely have a class of wine. I've never done any
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Speaker 2: drug in my life, seriously, except you know, way way back,
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Speaker 2: I tried marijuana. I didn't like it, and I so
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Speaker 2: I've never touched anything which affects my my health. I'm
5:27
Speaker 2: one in my mind altering situation as well.
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Speaker 1: That says a lot because you were in a business
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Speaker 1: where the temptations were there, I'm sure a lot.
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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, they were always around and you know, whether
5:38
Speaker 2: it was a band or or executive, I mean there was.
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Speaker 2: That was one of the perks of being at that
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Speaker 2: side of the defense of you know, getting getting high
5:48
Speaker 2: or or whatever it is to do that. I would
5:51
Speaker 2: never I have never felt any peer pressure at all
5:54
Speaker 2: to to you know, yeah, come on, you know, I
5:59
Speaker 2: wasn't interested in again, you know, in having anything that
6:03
Speaker 2: would alter my judgment and my mind perception.
6:07
Speaker 1: When did you decide you wanted to get into music?
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Speaker 2: Well, music was always around. That's something which was you know,
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Speaker 2: there was music and musicians were always around our house,
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Speaker 2: so you know, it was something which I thought everyone had.
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Speaker 2: Of course, that's I was an unusual environment. You know.
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Speaker 2: It was a very sort of you know, kind of
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Speaker 2: almost I can't explain it, but it was. It was
6:33
Speaker 2: a very free kind of environment. My mother loved music
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Speaker 2: as well. She's a dancer, and so the music and
6:40
Speaker 2: musical instruments were always around. But I do remember that,
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Speaker 2: and we also played the instruments. My brother Ray was
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Speaker 2: played the violin and you know classically in my father
6:53
Speaker 2: and my mother encouraged him to uh when when he
6:57
Speaker 2: was not having lessons to practice. I had played the saxophone.
7:00
Speaker 2: I we all read music. But I do remember that
7:04
Speaker 2: when I heard Love Me Do on the radio by
7:08
Speaker 2: the Beatles, that was a time when I said, Okay,
7:12
Speaker 2: you know, we're having fun, you know, playing I had
7:15
Speaker 2: Spanish guitar. But I'm going to be That's this is
7:19
Speaker 2: going to be my life. I'm going to be a
7:20
Speaker 2: musician and I want to make make myself. I want
7:23
Speaker 2: to be a rock star. I mean I said that.
7:24
Speaker 2: I actually said that in school, but yeah, it was.
7:29
Speaker 2: It was that that period of time when I heard
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Speaker 2: the Beatles. It changed everything for me, but also for
7:36
Speaker 2: everything in England because the culture changed, the the the
7:41
Speaker 2: music changed. Everything changed in England that period sixty four
7:45
Speaker 2: sixty five. For until early the early seventies, young people
7:50
Speaker 2: were were basically you know, you know, encouraging the environment
7:59
Speaker 2: and and and being the sort of leaders in the
8:04
Speaker 2: whole the world, I mean in what they were doing,
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Speaker 2: what we were wearing, what music was being heard, and
8:11
Speaker 2: it was an incredible time to be in England. And
8:15
Speaker 2: I think about being a musician, and that's what I did.
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Speaker 1: I can only imagine because I'm old enough to remember
8:20
Speaker 1: what it was like when the grunge rock period took
8:22
Speaker 1: over and the cultural shift. But that is not even
8:27
Speaker 1: close to I think what you experienced there being and
8:30
Speaker 1: you lived in England most of your life, but you
8:32
Speaker 1: were born in Glasgow, that's correct. Yeah, when did you
8:35
Speaker 1: move to England?
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Speaker 2: Nineteen? Well, I was two years old, so it would
8:40
Speaker 2: have been a forty forty six and I was born
8:48
Speaker 2: in No, sorry, forty nine. I'm sorry, I'm losing my mind.
8:52
Speaker 2: You know, I was born in the tenements of Glasgow,
8:56
Speaker 2: and if you read anything or know about that lifestyle,
9:00
Speaker 2: it's a pretty horrific situation to be in because you know,
9:03
Speaker 2: it was in an immigrant situation and my grandparents came
9:07
Speaker 2: over from Poland and Lithuania and there was you know,
9:11
Speaker 2: eight families living in the conditions of poverty. We had
9:16
Speaker 2: one outdoor toilet for eight families, no bathroom. But what
9:21
Speaker 2: I mean it supports that it wasn't that it wasn't
9:24
Speaker 2: as it wasn't like a paradise per se. We lived
9:29
Speaker 2: in a house where we had two bedrooms for a
9:33
Speaker 2: family of five kids. But again we did have a bathroom.
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Speaker 2: There was an outhouse and you know the our bath
9:42
Speaker 2: nights were Friday nights with a tin bath outside the house.
9:46
Speaker 2: And you know, that's what That's how I grew up.
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Speaker 1: Now, speaking of the Beatles, great story in the book,
9:51
Speaker 1: at the age of nineteen, just two years after your
9:53
Speaker 1: schoolmaster told you you'll never become a pop star, you
9:57
Speaker 1: were in a band signed the same label the Beatles,
10:00
Speaker 1: Parlophone Records. Yeah, Simon dupre in the big sound, how
10:04
Speaker 1: do they form?
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Speaker 2: I formed the band with school friends, I said, you know,
10:08
Speaker 2: after the Beatles happened, and my sister gave me my
10:12
Speaker 2: first Spanish guitar. I learned three or four chords. I
10:16
Speaker 2: thought I was a guitarist, so you know, and I
10:20
Speaker 2: knew a couple of friends who had a guitar, and
10:24
Speaker 2: we all kind of put it together. And I asked
10:26
Speaker 2: my brother Ray, who was, you know, a violinist? And
10:29
Speaker 2: actually being groomed for the National Youth Hocus a great
10:33
Speaker 2: of Great Britain to be to be in the band,
10:36
Speaker 2: to play rhythm violin. Actually it's a crazy thing, but
10:40
Speaker 2: you know. So it was the school you know, school
10:42
Speaker 2: friends and ultimately we we started playing and we realized
10:46
Speaker 2: myself and my brother Ray that my school friends weren't
10:51
Speaker 2: very good and we were music. We had a music.
10:54
Speaker 2: We had music in our dna. So we picked up
10:57
Speaker 2: our instruments and you know, thanks to my again thanks
11:01
Speaker 2: of the DNA of both of my parents, it came
11:05
Speaker 2: naturally being a musician. So the kids, our soul friends,
11:09
Speaker 2: dropped out and we eventually got other players from different
11:12
Speaker 2: bands to join the band. They started playing around the area.
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Speaker 2: We started playing in the south coast of England and
11:20
Speaker 2: then other places and we got a really good fan base.
11:24
Speaker 2: And I asked my elder brother of them to join
11:27
Speaker 2: the band because he was the teacher and he didn't
11:31
Speaker 2: like it, and he joined the band as a saxophonist
11:35
Speaker 2: and trumpet player, and he bought the van. Wow, yeah,
11:39
Speaker 2: the money.
11:39
Speaker 1: So three brothers in the band, three.
11:42
Speaker 2: Brothers in the band, and three other musicians and my
11:47
Speaker 2: brother in law, my sister's husband worked for the BBC,
11:52
Speaker 2: and she said, you know, my brothers are doing really well.
11:55
Speaker 2: They're playing all around there getting a ton of fans,
11:57
Speaker 2: which we were why don't you just, you know, go
12:00
Speaker 2: see them. He did and he became a manager, and
12:04
Speaker 2: he got as an audition at Abbey Road to get
12:09
Speaker 2: a record deal. And we went up to abber London
12:12
Speaker 2: Portsittal Loves about sixty miles and we played in front
12:17
Speaker 2: of George Martin and all the all the other Jeff
12:20
Speaker 2: Emeric and Norick Parrim, all the staff there, and we
12:24
Speaker 2: thought we were going to basically, you know, play a
12:27
Speaker 2: couple of songs, and they said it was about twenty
12:30
Speaker 2: twenty five, about twenty five staffers there, and they said,
12:34
Speaker 2: you know, okay, play your set. I mean we literally
12:39
Speaker 2: had to play our set in front of like twenty
12:41
Speaker 2: five people sitting like this. Yeah. But we we pulled
12:47
Speaker 2: it off. We played our asses off, and we didn't
12:49
Speaker 2: know whether we had a record deal or not. And
12:52
Speaker 2: a couple of days later, John King, our brother in law,
12:57
Speaker 2: called and said, you're on Parlerful Records. Congratulations, we were,
13:04
Speaker 2: we had a record deal.
13:05
Speaker 1: Now you were called the road Runners, but then changed
13:07
Speaker 1: it to Simon Dupree in the Big Sound Simon dupri
13:10
Speaker 1: the first Lord Mayor of Portsmouth yep. And also you're
13:14
Speaker 1: named after a journalist writing that you had a very
13:18
Speaker 1: big sound. So if people are curious, that's that's.
13:21
Speaker 2: Exactly what happened. I mean we were given these names.
13:23
Speaker 2: I love those stories and we said, okay, sounds good
13:26
Speaker 2: to us.
13:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you had early success with the singles I
13:29
Speaker 1: see the light reservations along with Daytime, Nighttime, but it's
13:34
Speaker 1: with the song Kites that you have a big hit.
13:36
Speaker 1: It's the first top ten UK single. It's written by
13:39
Speaker 1: outside songwriters. Though your first words after hearing it was
13:42
Speaker 1: you've got to be kidding me. In your defense, it
13:46
Speaker 1: was different from what you previously recorded. Why did the
13:49
Speaker 1: label feel it was a good idea to record it?
13:51
Speaker 2: Well, actually it was a label and our manager and
13:55
Speaker 2: they thought, yeah, the first couple of singles they kind
13:59
Speaker 2: of nudged the top four, but they thought it was
14:03
Speaker 2: you know, the song could be something that uh could
14:08
Speaker 2: be could get a radio of course, and that was
14:10
Speaker 2: very important. And so we we heard it and we
14:14
Speaker 2: thought this is not our style, but you know what
14:16
Speaker 2: we'll do. We'll make the best of it, and we
14:19
Speaker 2: recorded it. And every session in an abbey road is
14:23
Speaker 2: three hours. I mean literally that's all you had. Every band,
14:26
Speaker 2: not just us had three hours to write and record
14:29
Speaker 2: a beat or not right, but record an A side
14:32
Speaker 2: and the B side. So we went in and recorded
14:35
Speaker 2: the that song kite and the B side, and we
14:41
Speaker 2: went actually after right after that was recorded, we took
14:45
Speaker 2: we were on a tour off Scandinavia and and I remember,
14:51
Speaker 2: you know, we didn't the record came out about two
14:54
Speaker 2: weeks later. In those days, it was literally a week
14:57
Speaker 2: or two weeks later, and I got a call, is
15:02
Speaker 2: Derek Shulman on board on a on the ferry coming
15:04
Speaker 2: back from Malmo to Hull in England, and you know,
15:10
Speaker 2: just as a sidebar, the North Sea in you know,
15:15
Speaker 2: during that period of time is not a nice place
15:17
Speaker 2: to have a thirty six hour uh ferry ride because
15:22
Speaker 2: really we we we were throwing up NonStop and we
15:27
Speaker 2: you know, sea sickness one. It wasn't even closed. However,
15:30
Speaker 2: you know, I got this call, a satellite call on
15:33
Speaker 2: a satellite phone. Is there a Derek Shulman on board?
15:37
Speaker 2: And my first thought was, oh ship, what's happened? And
15:43
Speaker 2: I went to the Captain and there's a there's a
15:45
Speaker 2: call for you from London and it's London. Why not
15:48
Speaker 2: pour myself say uh? And it was a publicist and
15:54
Speaker 2: she said, Derek, you know are you saying? I said no,
15:56
Speaker 2: I'm standing up and she said, your record just hit
16:00
Speaker 2: the top twenty. Congratulations, you're on Top of the Pops
16:03
Speaker 2: next week. And being on Top of the Pops that's
16:06
Speaker 2: a TV show. Yeah, that basically said basically said, if
16:12
Speaker 2: you're on that show, you're going to be a That
16:15
Speaker 2: record is going to be a hit record.
16:17
Speaker 1: That's a big deal.
16:18
Speaker 2: Well, like it was yesterday.
16:22
Speaker 1: There's a story about Sid Barrett in the book that
16:25
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting that there was music you recorded
16:28
Speaker 1: under the name the Moles and it was starting to
16:31
Speaker 1: take off until Sid Barrett burst the bubble. Tell us
16:36
Speaker 1: about this, this is a side project you kind of
16:38
Speaker 1: you want it. It's kind of ties in with the
16:41
Speaker 1: fact that that song was maybe a little too mainstream
16:44
Speaker 1: or poppy for you maybe and you're looking to do
16:46
Speaker 1: something more experimental.
16:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in fact, again our manager John, they said
16:52
Speaker 2: that there's they've had a three hour window in Abbey
16:56
Speaker 2: Road to record another song. Why you you guys meeting
17:01
Speaker 2: me and my brothers. No, not the band. It was
17:04
Speaker 2: just me, Ray and Phil went up and we uh
17:09
Speaker 2: you know, wrote the song We Are the Males, basically
17:14
Speaker 2: you know, making a sound which is you know, kind
17:18
Speaker 2: of psychedelic and and and his idea was to put
17:23
Speaker 2: it out under with the Males, and uh you know,
17:28
Speaker 2: it started taking off. People thought it was the Beatles
17:30
Speaker 2: because it sounded like the Beatles. It was very sageant pepperish,
17:35
Speaker 2: and it started climbing the charts and it went to
17:38
Speaker 2: number eighty and then number fifty, and then there was
17:42
Speaker 2: an article in Melody Maker, which is a British and
17:47
Speaker 2: music magazine, with an interview with Sid Barrett, who and
17:53
Speaker 2: Floyd were recording at the same time or after we
17:57
Speaker 2: recorded that that track, and he was asked about what
18:00
Speaker 2: do you think of the most because we were they
18:02
Speaker 2: were psychedelic and this righte this song was getting a
18:06
Speaker 2: whole lot of airplay and people thought it was like
18:08
Speaker 2: we were competing with Pink Floyd with our psychedelic sound,
18:12
Speaker 2: and he said, that's not some new psychedelic band, that's
18:15
Speaker 2: as shitty group. Simon Duprie. He went from like fifty
18:19
Speaker 2: to five thousand next week.
18:21
Speaker 1: Kite's success was a great accomplishment after the hard work
18:25
Speaker 1: he has put in, and you refuse to give up
18:27
Speaker 1: and you finally get the hit single, but you say
18:29
Speaker 1: it was the end of the beginning, of the beginning
18:32
Speaker 1: of the end for Simon Dupree. Talk about what led
18:35
Speaker 1: to the end of that band and the start of
18:39
Speaker 1: Gentle Giant, and Elton John plays a part in this story, right.
18:43
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, Elton during that yeah, just after we had
18:48
Speaker 2: you know, this very big hit and it was being
18:51
Speaker 2: played on the radio NonStop. Ar a keyboard player got
18:58
Speaker 2: well some I can't remember where it was it, but
19:02
Speaker 2: something which made him very ill and he was not
19:05
Speaker 2: able to play for several months and we had to
19:07
Speaker 2: get had to get a debt to play and we
19:09
Speaker 2: heard from our management there's a keyboard player called reg
19:12
Speaker 2: Dwight who's really good. So me and my brother Ray
19:15
Speaker 2: went up to Watford and net Bridge and said, you know, look,
19:19
Speaker 2: we've got this big tour of England and Scotland. How
19:22
Speaker 2: would you like to, you know, come and join us?
19:27
Speaker 2: And he said how much am I going to be paid?
19:30
Speaker 2: And I said, well about thirty thirty five to forty
19:33
Speaker 2: pounds a week, and he said that much he was
19:36
Speaker 2: earning at that time ten pounds a week. So he
19:40
Speaker 2: came down to Ports to rehearse and he was fantastic.
19:43
Speaker 2: He was just a superb, you know, he learned the
19:47
Speaker 2: music within a day. And we went on on that
19:51
Speaker 2: tour with him, and he saw we saw in him
19:55
Speaker 2: someone who was number one, a great guy and someone
19:59
Speaker 2: who's very sp but also someone who could was a friend,
20:03
Speaker 2: who could be a friend, and we ultimately remain friends
20:06
Speaker 2: until this day. And he would also someone who was
20:10
Speaker 2: incredibly musical and and new music that we we we
20:15
Speaker 2: weren't really aware of and and he said, you guys
20:17
Speaker 2: are so good. Have you heard other bands like like
20:23
Speaker 2: Spirit in the in in California and Zappa of course
20:26
Speaker 2: you know Miles Davis And he said, yeah, we're familiar
20:29
Speaker 2: with them, but not as much as you are. Tell
20:31
Speaker 2: us more about it, and so he basically kind of
20:34
Speaker 2: introduced us to a sound that we weren't really felt
20:36
Speaker 2: familiar with. And when he finished, we we we basically
20:41
Speaker 2: started listening to things outside of our own cocoon. And
20:46
Speaker 2: when we decided to finish Simon Dupree, we remember that
20:52
Speaker 2: reg you know, basically turned us on to music that
20:56
Speaker 2: we thought was quite really interesting. And I called him
21:00
Speaker 2: and said, we're doing what you kind of like intimated
21:04
Speaker 2: when you were with us last year. We're going to
21:07
Speaker 2: break up this band and we're going to put a
21:08
Speaker 2: new band together. Are you interested? He said absolutely, So
21:12
Speaker 2: we went up to being Ray went up to what
21:15
Speaker 2: he was living with his mom and he just met
21:17
Speaker 2: Bernie at that time, and Bernie was there.
21:20
Speaker 1: And they were writing songs together at that house.
21:23
Speaker 2: At the house, yeah, and he was so he said,
21:28
Speaker 2: written several things, you know, which you know, I'm going
21:30
Speaker 2: to record somehow, and he sat playing as a you know,
21:35
Speaker 2: skyline pigeon and a couple of other songs. And to
21:40
Speaker 2: be honest with you, we we didn't say anything to him,
21:43
Speaker 2: but you know, we didn't think it was for us.
21:47
Speaker 2: And then at the same time he start up changing
21:49
Speaker 2: my name from Rege Dwaite to Elton John and we thought, oh,
21:52
Speaker 2: that would work. So you know, of course, you know,
21:58
Speaker 2: on both so we decided that it wasn't going to
22:01
Speaker 2: work for us, and we said that's okay, right, you know,
22:03
Speaker 2: you know, look, well we'll be back in touch. Thank
22:07
Speaker 2: God for him that we turned down and the next
22:10
Speaker 2: the next year he was out and John and the
22:13
Speaker 2: next year we were a gentle Giant and Troia sky
22:15
Speaker 2: around for gigs. So you know, it was it was
22:19
Speaker 2: a good situation that we said no thanks to Skyline Pigeon.
22:23
Speaker 1: What a great story and you went through. The name
22:25
Speaker 1: changed too, gentle Giant, So that comes thanks to somebody
22:29
Speaker 1: named Colin Richardson. Who is Colin And what's the story
22:32
Speaker 1: behind the band name?
22:33
Speaker 2: Well, Colin worked for a manager, a new manager, Jerry Brown,
22:38
Speaker 2: and Jerry was a manager of the last stages of
22:42
Speaker 2: Simon Dupree. And we told we told Jerry, we don't
22:48
Speaker 2: want to do this anymore. Even though we're we were
22:50
Speaker 2: still very popular, we're still making good money. And he said,
22:54
Speaker 2: what do you mean. I said, we want to do
22:56
Speaker 2: something which is completely different, something which is one to
22:59
Speaker 2: eighty from you know, from going to these venues and
23:03
Speaker 2: and people wanting to hear the hits and us we
23:06
Speaker 2: were we were progressing as musicians anyway, and it was
23:10
Speaker 2: very stymying, so that in certain respects, having a couple
23:13
Speaker 2: of big hits were like millstones were our next in
23:16
Speaker 2: certain respects. So we said we want to start something
23:19
Speaker 2: new and he said, you know what, if you if
23:22
Speaker 2: you want to start something new, I will fund that
23:25
Speaker 2: and I will you know, for for six to nine months.
23:29
Speaker 2: You find the right musicians and and you know, you
23:33
Speaker 2: put this new band together. And I have to say
23:36
Speaker 2: that in itself is like no one, no when would
23:40
Speaker 2: do that today. I mean, that's I mean, so patronature
23:43
Speaker 2: is like unbelievable. He had that much faith in the
23:46
Speaker 2: Shulman brothers, if you like. And we started writing new
23:51
Speaker 2: stuff and then we started looking for musicians that could,
23:55
Speaker 2: you know, put us together and and do something completely new.
23:58
Speaker 2: We didn't know what it was going to be. We
24:00
Speaker 2: had no idea, but we did loath that it wasn't
24:03
Speaker 2: going to be anything like we did before. And the
24:06
Speaker 2: first musician that joined us was Carriebine, or our keyboard player,
24:11
Speaker 2: who had just graduated from the Royal Kennedy of Music
24:13
Speaker 2: with a decoreean composition and percussion, and we invited him
24:19
Speaker 2: down to Portsmouth and we thought, holy shit, this is something.
24:24
Speaker 2: This is someone who is not just amazing as a musician,
24:28
Speaker 2: but someone who is an incredible songwriter as well. So
24:32
Speaker 2: you know, we we were trying to write songs and
24:35
Speaker 2: trying to put new things together. But he fitted in
24:37
Speaker 2: so well, both personally and musically and also and also
24:43
Speaker 2: a friend wise. So he moved down to Portsmouth and
24:47
Speaker 2: then we advertised for a guitarist and we went through
24:53
Speaker 2: forty or fifty guitars until we found Gary Green and
24:58
Speaker 2: Gary A and he came. We were rehearsing in London
25:03
Speaker 2: and we you know, we invited guitarists to come in,
25:07
Speaker 2: and he was the first guitarist to basically say, can
25:10
Speaker 2: I just chew it up first place? When he said
25:13
Speaker 2: that he almost had a gig there, right, So, but
25:17
Speaker 2: he was a great player. I mean, we you know,
25:19
Speaker 2: we knew that Gary was fitting in perfectly.
25:22
Speaker 1: I really admire that the integrity of what you did.
25:26
Speaker 1: And for financial reasons, we know, gentle Giant worked out
25:29
Speaker 1: and you built up a great fan base and you
25:31
Speaker 1: did just fine. But to pursue the art, in other words,
25:36
Speaker 1: you're not looking for hit singles. Hit singles can make
25:39
Speaker 1: you a lot of money, right, You're not even thinking
25:41
Speaker 1: about that. You're just thinking about the total vision is
25:46
Speaker 1: what we want to do from an artistic standpoint, Was
25:48
Speaker 1: there ever any concern about making sure that you're you're
25:52
Speaker 1: going to get by financially or did you just say
25:54
Speaker 1: we'll find a way to make it work.
25:56
Speaker 2: I think the ladder. I think that we will. We
25:59
Speaker 2: will find a way to make it work. But listen,
26:01
Speaker 2: we didn't do it for fame and fortune, unlike today's generation.
26:07
Speaker 2: We did it for the music. And we yeah, and
26:09
Speaker 2: we all were also worked. We were work workingholics. We
26:13
Speaker 2: worked really hard, you know, having been in cyber Do
26:16
Speaker 2: pre in the Big Sound, it was a fantastic apprenticeship,
26:20
Speaker 2: you know. We during that period of time we could
26:23
Speaker 2: literally play eleven or twelve shows a week seriously, and
26:27
Speaker 2: so you you would learn how to entertain as well
26:31
Speaker 2: as play, I mean play your instrument really well, because
26:36
Speaker 2: if you didn't, you weren't going to be in a band.
26:38
Speaker 2: You're going to know no one would come to see you.
26:40
Speaker 2: So we that was a great apprenticeship to be in
26:43
Speaker 2: a different kind of band but playing different kind of music.
26:46
Speaker 2: It was, it was, it was. It was a good apprenticeship.
26:49
Speaker 2: And we had musicians around that could push us and
26:55
Speaker 2: we pushed them. So that was something that we were
26:59
Speaker 2: able to do. And again and we were lucky in
27:01
Speaker 2: that we had a pat pot if you like but
27:04
Speaker 2: at the same time we were we were pretty good
27:07
Speaker 2: from the get go. I mean, we we worked our
27:10
Speaker 2: asses off to make sure that we played live really well,
27:15
Speaker 2: and that was in fact, in serve respects, we were
27:18
Speaker 2: much better as a live band. We did much better
27:22
Speaker 2: as a live band and than a recording a recorded band. Again,
27:28
Speaker 2: that was something that we throughout the ten years of
27:31
Speaker 2: General Giant, that was something that we always had. I mean,
27:34
Speaker 2: we felt like the recordings were sketches for the oil
27:38
Speaker 2: painting we took on the stage.
27:42
Speaker 1: The Bookdown Rock podcast is part of the Boneless podcasting network.
27:46
Speaker 1: If you're a fan of classic rock and classic film
27:49
Speaker 1: like I am, go to Boneless dot lovable dot app
27:52
Speaker 1: to find over twenty great shows there. That's Boneless down
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Speaker 1: Lovable dot app. Or just go to bookdown rock dot com.
27:59
Speaker 1: Pick on the logo, it'll take him right to the
28:01
Speaker 1: Boneless podcasting network. It is what you want to be
28:05
Speaker 1: Listen with confidence. We should go right now to Tony Visconti,
28:11
Speaker 1: who was the ideal producer for the band, right. I mean,
28:14
Speaker 1: he was the guy that was gonna help transfer that
28:17
Speaker 1: live energy and sound into the studio and he was
28:21
Speaker 1: so important to the band he worked with t Rex Badfinger, Strabs,
28:25
Speaker 1: David Bowie. Of course, why was he the ideal producer
28:29
Speaker 1: for Gentle Giant.
28:30
Speaker 2: We didn't know him, but he was suggested to be
28:33
Speaker 2: our producer and we met him, and again, we're so
28:37
Speaker 2: we've been very lucky in that we just hit it
28:40
Speaker 2: off and it was like he was a member of
28:42
Speaker 2: the band and he saw that we were pretty good musically,
28:46
Speaker 2: and so was he. He was classically trained and he
28:50
Speaker 2: taught us how to record. We had never done an
28:53
Speaker 2: LP before. I meant, we had an LP with Simon
28:56
Speaker 2: Dupree that was a series of like singles put together,
29:00
Speaker 2: but doing an album was a whole different animal. But
29:04
Speaker 2: he was you know, I just saw him a couple
29:07
Speaker 2: of weeks ago. We did an in store together, a
29:10
Speaker 2: radio show together, and we talked about what it was.
29:16
Speaker 2: He really admired our musicianship, he really did, and we
29:19
Speaker 2: admired his musicianip. He was really a super musician. And
29:23
Speaker 2: we also like it was like having an open book
29:28
Speaker 2: and we filled it completely with all the ideas that
29:31
Speaker 2: were coming out, and he was able to whittle down
29:33
Speaker 2: those ideas into that first album called Gentle Giant. We
29:39
Speaker 2: were so lucky that we had Tony there at the
29:42
Speaker 2: first at the first outset.
29:44
Speaker 1: And it was a ten year run nineteen seventy to
29:46
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Gentle Giant was together and there was a
29:49
Speaker 1: point halfway through nineteen seventy four when you write about
29:53
Speaker 1: everything clicked, you were the best band on the planet.
29:56
Speaker 1: There was a show at the Shrine Auditorium in Los
29:58
Speaker 1: Angeles where you say it was like an odd of
30:00
Speaker 1: body experience. I mean, the band was just so tight.
30:04
Speaker 1: But this is around the time when things start to
30:07
Speaker 1: come apart. What was happening at that period, People got older,
30:11
Speaker 1: priorities changed, band fatigue. What was going on?
30:15
Speaker 2: No, I think seven but the Shrimee. Yeah, the Shrine
30:18
Speaker 2: was an incredible gig. I do remember that where literally
30:21
Speaker 2: the fans, eight thousand people, uh would not would not
30:27
Speaker 2: leave the auditorium. They refused after two or three encres
30:31
Speaker 2: and we didn't have any more music to play them,
30:34
Speaker 2: and we we played was it in the only you
30:41
Speaker 2: know when you do her you know, when you do
30:44
Speaker 2: your sound check, you play different bits and pieces, and
30:47
Speaker 2: we played in the midnight hours one of our you know,
30:49
Speaker 2: sound check songs, and we've had something else, so we
30:53
Speaker 2: at the very last song we had, we had no music,
30:55
Speaker 2: and we went out there and said, look, we don't
30:58
Speaker 2: have any more materials, so we're going to just play
31:00
Speaker 2: in the midnight hour. And they actually started leaving the
31:04
Speaker 2: auditorium after that. But that was about That was an
31:07
Speaker 2: incredible thing that for ten or fifteen minutes a crowd stays,
31:11
Speaker 2: stays and just cheers. It's such a an amazing moment
31:15
Speaker 2: that you know what you can you can't, but it was,
31:17
Speaker 2: it was, it was a highlight. And you know, but
31:23
Speaker 2: that period of time, we were on fire. We were
31:25
Speaker 2: were we produced at that point. I think the Power
31:29
Speaker 2: in the Glory and Free Hand, uh probably our best
31:34
Speaker 2: I guess some of our best material. And we were
31:37
Speaker 2: we were clicking as a mature, you know band that
31:41
Speaker 2: we're doing quite well. I mean as far as fan base,
31:44
Speaker 2: we weren't selling millions of records. We were on certainly
31:48
Speaker 2: the top forty of top fifty with a couple of
31:49
Speaker 2: our albums.
31:50
Speaker 1: At that point, when you reach that peak, is that
31:53
Speaker 1: where maybe things start to decline a bit, like, hey,
31:55
Speaker 1: we've reached as far as we could go, or because
31:58
Speaker 1: it was still a ways that you like nineteen seventy eight,
32:01
Speaker 1: the album Giant for a Day, you changed the sound
32:05
Speaker 1: little bit more pop rock sensibility to it wasn't received
32:07
Speaker 1: well by fans, but you came back with Civilian in
32:10
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and a lot of critics theorized that if
32:12
Speaker 1: the band continued with that sound would have been the
32:14
Speaker 1: springboard for General Giant to evolve further, maybe break through
32:18
Speaker 1: to a bigger or massive audience. But you felt that
32:22
Speaker 1: it was time to pull the plug.
32:23
Speaker 2: Why was that, Well, you know the bottom line, Well, yes,
32:27
Speaker 2: you're right exactly. Yeah. We've followed up with Interview, which
32:31
Speaker 2: was which was received pretty well, I mean, not as
32:34
Speaker 2: good as a Power and Glory. And then I guess it.
32:40
Speaker 2: And then we then we saw and heard that realized
32:43
Speaker 2: that radio had changed in America. America was a big marketplace.
32:49
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we still did very very well in
32:51
Speaker 2: Europe and Canada all places, but the US was a
32:55
Speaker 2: big marketplace and radio had changed. And they'll play they
32:59
Speaker 2: used to play a side of the record of any
33:02
Speaker 2: anti band and or you know, it was a free
33:05
Speaker 2: form radio and then ao R hit radio and they
33:09
Speaker 2: played one track of an album and that one track
33:14
Speaker 2: had to be you know, had to sort of kind
33:16
Speaker 2: of crossover and we heard artists who were in me
33:19
Speaker 2: basically the same in the same sort of the same
33:26
Speaker 2: kind of place that we were in like a genesis.
33:30
Speaker 1: And yes right genre, Yeah.
33:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that we're able to get a track that
33:38
Speaker 2: was able to be on FM radio, which was kind
33:41
Speaker 2: of a single uh, and we were we were never
33:45
Speaker 2: we never thought ourselves as a singles band. We did
33:47
Speaker 2: that before. That's something we we just want. We weren't
33:51
Speaker 2: really what one we were really interested in doing. However,
33:56
Speaker 2: I guess peer pressure and knowing that that would certainly
34:00
Speaker 2: brain boarders to that level of of of wherever they
34:05
Speaker 2: were going to to try and do something which is
34:12
Speaker 2: a little more commercial. And that was you know, something
34:16
Speaker 2: we should we should and didn't want to do, but
34:19
Speaker 2: we shouldn't have tried, because we were never a band
34:22
Speaker 2: that intended to be commercial. We were a band that
34:26
Speaker 2: we were probably selfish, and the fact that we were
34:29
Speaker 2: we did it for ourselves first and and pushed ourselves
34:33
Speaker 2: number on and then we pushed it, took it on
34:35
Speaker 2: stage and hoped that what we did would make an
34:38
Speaker 2: audience enjoy what we did and also have fun as well,
34:43
Speaker 2: and then we so we realized that if we didn't
34:45
Speaker 2: do that, then our audiences might dwiddle a little, which
34:48
Speaker 2: they started to they started to do to dwindle, and
34:51
Speaker 2: we realized, Okay, then we have have to try something.
34:55
Speaker 2: And then Giant Ford that we did Giant for a Day,
34:58
Speaker 2: which is our attempt if you like, to make a
35:03
Speaker 2: poppier commercial record, and some of it, you know, it's
35:07
Speaker 2: it's some of it's pretty good. However, you know, it
35:10
Speaker 2: wasn't what General Giant was originally made for, and the
35:15
Speaker 2: fans did not like that album, and and ultimately it
35:18
Speaker 2: was not really a band an album that we should
35:23
Speaker 2: have made.
35:25
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Civilian?
35:28
Speaker 2: I think Civilian is a really good album, and I
35:31
Speaker 2: think that you know, the band feels they're mixed about that,
35:33
Speaker 2: but I think it's a really good album. However, uh, Columbia,
35:38
Speaker 2: you know, and I thought, okay, if we do this
35:40
Speaker 2: and kind of take out some of the experimental beat
35:45
Speaker 2: stuff but keeping the musicality, Ah, this gives us a
35:50
Speaker 2: shot to to break into the eighties and what other
35:55
Speaker 2: bands did. And Columbia, who we signed to after Capital,
36:01
Speaker 2: basically let the ball drop and effectively it didn't. It
36:06
Speaker 2: didn't happen. I mean it wasn't. It didn't get any
36:09
Speaker 2: radio play. We toured on it, but really, uh, it was.
36:13
Speaker 2: And that was the sort of signal to the band
36:17
Speaker 2: that look, if you could continue, we could do another track,
36:21
Speaker 2: we could have another album. But then you started to
36:23
Speaker 2: become a tribute tribute band, then you become a parody
36:27
Speaker 2: of what you started out to become. So even though
36:31
Speaker 2: we toured with that that album and we did quite well,
36:36
Speaker 2: we knew. In fact, we had a meeting before the
36:39
Speaker 2: year tour and I and Carrie the keyboard player, decided
36:43
Speaker 2: we weren't going to continue with this because I saw
36:46
Speaker 2: the writing on the wall that you know that if
36:48
Speaker 2: we continued and started doing stuff that we did ten
36:52
Speaker 2: twelve years ago, it would it would it would just
36:55
Speaker 2: it would destroyed what we started out to want wanting
36:59
Speaker 2: to be. And I just saw that happening, and that
37:03
Speaker 2: vision of you know, of trying to be someone who
37:08
Speaker 2: you were ten, fifteen, twenty years ago and a member
37:13
Speaker 2: leaves and then you get someone else that that's a
37:16
Speaker 2: horror show to me, and that's something I would ever
37:18
Speaker 2: want and we would want, ever want. So we decided
37:22
Speaker 2: to stop the stop the band, stop the music, and
37:25
Speaker 2: that chapter, that ten year chapter for me and for
37:29
Speaker 2: all of us, was closed, and it was a superb
37:33
Speaker 2: chapter for me.
37:36
Speaker 1: Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
37:38
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38:02
Speaker 1: on Rock. Also find a link in this episode show notes,
38:05
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38:07
Speaker 1: click on my deals. Giant Steps. My Improbable Journey from
38:11
Speaker 1: stage lights to executive heights is the book. We're here
38:15
Speaker 1: with the author and the man who lived that journey,
38:16
Speaker 1: Derek Shulman. Third part of the book gets into your
38:19
Speaker 1: new path as a record executive. In nineteen eighty two,
38:22
Speaker 1: you moved to New York to become director of rock
38:24
Speaker 1: radio promotions with PolyGram, band you worked with early on
38:28
Speaker 1: the Jam Tears, for Fears, Scorpions Kiss. In nineteen eighty three,
38:32
Speaker 1: you moved out of radio promo and into an R.
38:36
Speaker 1: What's the main job of an A and R guy?
38:37
Speaker 1: For those who are not familiar with you, hear that
38:40
Speaker 1: term A lot A and R guy.
38:43
Speaker 2: A and R does it today, It doesn't mean anything
38:46
Speaker 2: to what it did when I was doing it. Artists
38:51
Speaker 2: and REPTRAI is what actually means. And you are the
38:54
Speaker 2: person that decides or finds the artist that the record
38:59
Speaker 2: company will put their marketing and resources, their promotional resources,
39:02
Speaker 2: their sales resources, et cetera, behind their recordings. And that's
39:07
Speaker 2: that's who you were. You were the guy that finds
39:09
Speaker 2: the talent for the record label. That's what That's what
39:13
Speaker 2: it was back in the day. And that's what I became.
39:18
Speaker 2: And I realized that that's that was something that I
39:21
Speaker 2: was pretty good at. Uh And but you know, good
39:26
Speaker 2: in the in the fact that I could bring a
39:29
Speaker 2: lot of my background, all of my background to this
39:33
Speaker 2: new situation which I had never in a million years
39:37
Speaker 2: thought I would be in.
39:38
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think any of your peers expected it.
39:42
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely not. I mean it was you know, it
39:45
Speaker 2: was almost like Luke Skywalker turning into Darth Vader.
39:48
Speaker 1: Yes, right, because now you've got to look for bands.
39:51
Speaker 1: You're looking for hit songs, hit bands, the look, the sound.
39:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you know, but you know I did
40:01
Speaker 2: know about having hits because we had a hits and
40:04
Speaker 2: a couple of hits with my first band. But you know, yes,
40:07
Speaker 2: I had to think about commercial success as well as
40:11
Speaker 2: well as as well as I'll use this word authenticity, right,
40:18
Speaker 2: And every band that I signed and I was involved with, uh,
40:23
Speaker 2: And you know, I'll say this, you know, say out
40:25
Speaker 2: loud because it's important that you know, people think, oh,
40:27
Speaker 2: there he was in this great, you know, prog band,
40:30
Speaker 2: and he you know, he sold out. You know, I
40:34
Speaker 2: sold I looked for anyone, no matter who it was,
40:37
Speaker 2: to be authentic and to do something that no one
40:41
Speaker 2: else is doing, whether it's pop or rock, or or
40:45
Speaker 2: or progressive music or country or or hip hop or
40:48
Speaker 2: whatever they were. You know, authentic is but the most
40:52
Speaker 2: important thing for me, and most just about every band
40:55
Speaker 2: I worked with were authentic in their own way.
40:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the early bands, bon Jovi. Two weeks
41:02
Speaker 1: into your gig, you hear a song on a Long
41:03
Speaker 1: Island radio station that you couldn't get out of your head.
41:06
Speaker 1: And it was called Runaway by a kid from Saraville,
41:09
Speaker 1: New Jersey. It wasn't a band yet, It's just John
41:12
Speaker 1: bon Jovi shared with us some of the story of
41:14
Speaker 1: signing bon Jovi.
41:16
Speaker 2: Well, I heard this song run Away on the radio
41:20
Speaker 2: and I thought, damn it, said what a great song
41:23
Speaker 2: it was, and it was. It was a song that
41:26
Speaker 2: John was able to get on the sampler of music
41:31
Speaker 2: local music in New York and it was called Johnny
41:35
Speaker 2: bon Jiovi. But I kept hearing this on this radio
41:39
Speaker 2: station w APP and I said, wow, this is this
41:42
Speaker 2: what is the song? And when it came on, I
41:45
Speaker 2: just did just inquiries. Uh, and I heard from that
41:49
Speaker 2: he was represented by a lawyer in Philadelphia called Arthur Mann.
41:56
Speaker 2: I got in touch with him and he said, yeah,
41:58
Speaker 2: this is kid. He's he's working at power station for
42:00
Speaker 2: a second cousin, Tony Jovi. Uh. And he recorded this
42:04
Speaker 2: song with with some session guys. Do you want to
42:08
Speaker 2: hear more. I've got a demo of his stuff and
42:12
Speaker 2: I said I'd love to hear it. And he brought
42:14
Speaker 2: the demo and uh, there were really good songs. You know,
42:18
Speaker 2: I thought, who the hell is. So I said, I'd
42:20
Speaker 2: love to meet John, and uh, he came over to
42:25
Speaker 2: my office and literally when he came in, every girl's
42:29
Speaker 2: head turned around. I'm sure there's a cle this guy.
42:33
Speaker 2: He's like, he's so good looking. His hair was like,
42:36
Speaker 2: you know, flowing, and boy, the girls were like, wet.
42:40
Speaker 2: I'll just leave it to your man.
42:43
Speaker 1: Now. What was on that demo, by the way, was
42:45
Speaker 1: were songs from that first album like Roulette and it was.
42:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, songs on that first album.
42:52
Speaker 1: She don't know me. I think he is on that
42:55
Speaker 1: original too.
42:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yeah exactly, yeah yeah. And so when I
43:03
Speaker 2: sat down with him, I said, John, I mean this.
43:05
Speaker 2: I saw this, and we've got talking about what it was,
43:08
Speaker 2: who I was, and why I was doing. We were
43:11
Speaker 2: sitting together and I said, so, what is it Who
43:16
Speaker 2: is it you want to be? Because John, you know,
43:18
Speaker 2: it could be a he's so good looking and he
43:20
Speaker 2: could be a pop star or a rock star or something.
43:23
Speaker 2: I said, what is it and who is it you
43:25
Speaker 2: want to be? And he looked, he looked at me
43:27
Speaker 2: in the eye and said, I want to be bigger
43:30
Speaker 2: than Elvis. And when he said that, you could take
43:36
Speaker 2: it two ways or three ways he's I'm being pumped
43:40
Speaker 2: or or he's just saying that because that's what he
43:42
Speaker 2: had to say because he's in singing with this guy,
43:45
Speaker 2: you know. But no, this came. I could tell that
43:48
Speaker 2: this was this was something in his head that no
43:51
Speaker 2: one was going to stop him if he's given a chance.
43:54
Speaker 2: And I believed him, and and he was putting this
43:58
Speaker 2: band together. And I saw a couple of Richie joined
44:01
Speaker 2: the band. Uh and uh. He had he had a
44:04
Speaker 2: couple of other guys from.
44:05
Speaker 1: Jersey, yeaho Alec, Alec.
44:12
Speaker 2: Dave Brian, you know, Dave Rashpell at the time, a
44:17
Speaker 2: couple of showcases. And I said to my boss, I'm
44:23
Speaker 2: gonna sign him because I knew that the potential was
44:25
Speaker 2: that they weren't amazing when they started, but and you
44:29
Speaker 2: know they they they had all the elements that I
44:32
Speaker 2: knew that it would it would take to make them
44:34
Speaker 2: make it work. I introduced him to Doc McGee and
44:40
Speaker 2: we recorded the first album in the power station.
44:43
Speaker 1: Did you see a chemistry between John and Richie?
44:47
Speaker 2: That was it? That was when he got Richie. That
44:49
Speaker 2: was you know, you in every band in the rock genre,
44:54
Speaker 2: there's always you have to have you know, there's you know,
44:58
Speaker 2: there's a Joe Perry and Steven Eyler, there's Mick Jagger
45:01
Speaker 2: and Keith Richards, John bon Jovi and Richie Sam Borer.
45:04
Speaker 2: That was perfect. His choice of Richie being in the
45:07
Speaker 2: band and their choice was perfect, and they were so
45:11
Speaker 2: good together. Well, the whole was so good.
45:13
Speaker 1: I know everybody loves Slippery when we which I do too,
45:16
Speaker 1: but I say it all the time. New Jersey is
45:19
Speaker 1: right at the top my favorite Bond Jovie album. It's
45:21
Speaker 1: the songs that are not just the singles, it's the
45:23
Speaker 1: album tracks that are so good.
45:26
Speaker 2: And that was well, so you know that was New
45:30
Speaker 2: Jersey was, I mean that sort of Slippery was the
45:32
Speaker 2: third album and we I introduced him to the Desmond
45:36
Speaker 2: Child okay, you know, and you know I said, John,
45:40
Speaker 2: how about writing with someone else? Had it been had
45:43
Speaker 2: it been me? Uh? Saying that to me and in
45:47
Speaker 2: another band, I said, I was just going to hell.
45:49
Speaker 2: But John was very pragmatic. He said, look, you know,
45:52
Speaker 2: if it works, it works, and it obviously worked and
45:55
Speaker 2: we went to Vancouver with to do the album with
46:00
Speaker 2: Ruce Fairman, Bob Brock and Mike Fraser and surpre was
46:04
Speaker 2: was Sippery when we was recorded. We put the record
46:08
Speaker 2: out and it was gigantic.
46:10
Speaker 1: Desmond wrote, you give love a bad name, Living on
46:14
Speaker 1: our Prayer, Living on a Prayer, which I remember John
46:17
Speaker 1: bon Jovi saying living on a Prayer. I don't think
46:19
Speaker 1: that's going to be a hit.
46:20
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's not true.
46:22
Speaker 1: He didn't say that because I thought he was a
46:24
Speaker 1: quote that he said, and he's like, boy was I was?
46:27
Speaker 1: I wrong?
46:28
Speaker 2: What that's you know, that's history read in a different fashion. However,
46:33
Speaker 2: he did tell me that when he wrote I was
46:37
Speaker 2: listening to the demos, he said, this song I think
46:40
Speaker 2: will be a classic, not not a Living on a
46:42
Speaker 2: Prayer is one to dead or alive. Yeah, I've got
46:46
Speaker 2: this song and I'm sure it's going to be this.
46:48
Speaker 2: This will be an art classic, you know. And he's
46:50
Speaker 2: all wrong.
46:51
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's a He's a classic now, he said.
46:54
Speaker 1: John was never arrogant, but he knew how to play hardball.
46:57
Speaker 1: You found this out when he asked for a separate deal.
47:00
Speaker 1: He wanted a separate deal, not a band contract.
47:03
Speaker 2: That surprised me actually, you know, because it was a band.
47:07
Speaker 2: I mean he was putting his band together and when
47:09
Speaker 2: I put my our band together. We shared everything. But
47:13
Speaker 2: he you know, he was he was smart. I mean,
47:17
Speaker 2: you know he was he was a leader. And you know,
47:19
Speaker 2: when I thought about it, you know, it was him
47:21
Speaker 2: putting the band together. He did run away, you know,
47:25
Speaker 2: with other players, and so in certain respect, I was
47:29
Speaker 2: surprised that that a band's a band for me, but
47:34
Speaker 2: you know, it was John's band, but it was a
47:36
Speaker 2: band still, and so the other guy's got different kinds
47:39
Speaker 2: of deals. But that when he said that, it was like, well,
47:42
Speaker 2: let's are you sure that's gonna work? John, he said, look,
47:46
Speaker 2: that's what I want, and you know what, I went
47:48
Speaker 2: along with him.
47:49
Speaker 1: John's cousin, Tony not exactly a supportive guy when it
47:52
Speaker 1: came to John. In fact, there was a legal battle
47:55
Speaker 1: early on.
47:56
Speaker 2: It was I mean, in fact, when I signed him,
47:59
Speaker 2: he basically said, you can't sign any signed to me.
48:03
Speaker 2: Wait a second, and in fact that he John did
48:07
Speaker 2: sign a deal with Tony, the second cousin, and we
48:14
Speaker 2: had to put our resources to get him out of
48:16
Speaker 2: that deal, and to this day he has Tony has
48:24
Speaker 2: a point or two. On the first couple of albums.
48:27
Speaker 1: You signed Cinderella to a development deal with a great band.
48:31
Speaker 1: You called an Andy John's to produce. I've heard some
48:34
Speaker 1: wild Andy John's stories. You've got one in the book.
48:36
Speaker 1: You get a call from the singer Tom Keefer who
48:39
Speaker 1: tells you Andy's bleeding to death. What happened Andy?
48:43
Speaker 2: I've worked with Andy after that. I mean that was
48:45
Speaker 2: my first, you know, go around with Andy and Andy. Uh,
48:49
Speaker 2: it's crazy, I mean it's crazy. I mean he'll also
48:52
Speaker 2: you know a little him again does does stuff that
48:55
Speaker 2: I don't advocate. But yeah, he love. He was. He
49:01
Speaker 2: was loving the music so much that when I walked
49:04
Speaker 2: into the studio, he just let he was. I think,
49:08
Speaker 2: I don't know what he was taking, but he was saying,
49:12
Speaker 2: this music is unbelieved. I can't I can't believe how
49:14
Speaker 2: great it is. And and and I'm going to bleed
49:17
Speaker 2: this music. And he lived for he was. He was
49:20
Speaker 2: clicking risks and not not to the not to the rtery,
49:23
Speaker 2: but his wrists are bleeding and and writing love on
49:27
Speaker 2: these speakers with the blood top was fucking freaking out,
49:32
Speaker 2: he said. And I heard stories about and I said, Andy,
49:35
Speaker 2: come on, man, cooled down a bit. He said, no,
49:38
Speaker 2: this band. I just love this band, and I'm going
49:41
Speaker 2: to prove it to you by click my wrists and
49:44
Speaker 2: not not to the you know, and he lially did.
49:46
Speaker 1: Hardcore man Andy John's was a great producer.
49:49
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. He was the epitome of rock and roll,
49:53
Speaker 2: that kind of rock and roll. But that's not my style.
49:56
Speaker 2: I mean cutting his surts and doing that made it
50:00
Speaker 2: do it. But what do he put? We finished? Nice
50:04
Speaker 2: was a nice song. No, it was the first album.
50:06
Speaker 2: That was it and that Blue into the charts at
50:08
Speaker 2: Blue right now.
50:12
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
50:14
Speaker 1: on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
50:18
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50:21
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50:23
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50:26
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50:32
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50:46
Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
50:49
Speaker 1: to the show, so you signed bon Jovi, Cinderella, Kingdom Come,
50:54
Speaker 1: and Dan Reid Network, as well as rebooting the careers
50:57
Speaker 1: of men without Hats and to a lesser extent, you're
51:00
Speaker 1: right heat, but at PolyGram you had climbed as high
51:03
Speaker 1: as you were going to get. There would be a
51:05
Speaker 1: career move coming. You had offers including Atlantic Records. You
51:10
Speaker 1: ultimately end up with at Corecords, where you were the
51:13
Speaker 1: president and CEO. One of the early bands you signed
51:16
Speaker 1: there was Pantera. You were with PolyGram when you were
51:22
Speaker 1: interested in them initially, right, tell us about that experience
51:25
Speaker 1: discovering them, working with them. Each guy had a unique
51:28
Speaker 1: personality made for a perfect combination of creative forces.
51:32
Speaker 2: In the top three bands at the live bands that
51:35
Speaker 2: weren't signed that, I think theyre number one or two.
51:38
Speaker 2: For me, I went down. I was to ley Rum
51:40
Speaker 2: because they've had records they did before for their own
51:46
Speaker 2: on their own label with Vivian, Darryl's father in Texas,
51:53
Speaker 2: and you know, they were kind of a hair band
51:54
Speaker 2: at one point, and then when Phil joined, the sound
52:00
Speaker 2: became a lot harder and they put out a record
52:02
Speaker 2: called Power Para Metal and it changed us sound a
52:04
Speaker 2: little bit. And then they're they're lawyer a guy called
52:07
Speaker 2: Jules kurtse Uh he was. He showed me this video
52:11
Speaker 2: at PolyGram and I said, wow, that band is straight
52:15
Speaker 2: and these songs that they're doing. What this I've never
52:19
Speaker 2: seen this before or heard this. And I said, look, look,
52:22
Speaker 2: bring it to me when I you know, when I'm over.
52:25
Speaker 2: I was basically serving my notice out and going to
52:28
Speaker 2: be at at ATC and I went over there and
52:33
Speaker 2: he said, you know, the band's really you know, you
52:36
Speaker 2: want to go see the band? And I said, sure,
52:38
Speaker 2: of course I would, And I went down to a
52:41
Speaker 2: club in Arlington, Texas. Uh. Running a record label, I
52:46
Speaker 2: have sixty seventy people for working for me, and I
52:49
Speaker 2: just remember going down there thinking, damn, I hope they're
52:54
Speaker 2: as good as what I just saw on video here
52:56
Speaker 2: and with those three songs I want was just a fan.
53:00
Speaker 2: I just knew that this band had everything. I mean,
53:04
Speaker 2: I almost jumped to the morsh bit, even though it
53:07
Speaker 2: was a small marsh bit. Yes, I mean there Phil
53:10
Speaker 2: was just a brilliant, amazing front man. You know. Vinnie
53:14
Speaker 2: was just just it was blew me away as a
53:18
Speaker 2: drummer dining bag just like it was. It was everything,
53:21
Speaker 2: and they had the audience completely wrapped and within those
53:25
Speaker 2: three songs third song, I just knew that if I
53:28
Speaker 2: went down there and went down and with a I
53:31
Speaker 2: hope they're as good, and came away saying they're not
53:34
Speaker 2: just as good, they're better that they're there's something different
53:37
Speaker 2: they're they're incredibly special and they were doing something that
53:41
Speaker 2: no one else is doing. I signed basically on the spot.
53:44
Speaker 1: The personalities of each guy very.
53:46
Speaker 2: Unique, oh unique class. I mean they were real rowdy
53:52
Speaker 2: Texans and and you know, thankfully I had a couple
53:55
Speaker 2: of you A and R guys working for me that
53:58
Speaker 2: I put in place to try to keep up with them.
54:00
Speaker 2: Their black tooth s brims, you know, there their shots
54:04
Speaker 2: and beer and and and you had to keep up
54:06
Speaker 2: with them. And I do this and throw it over
54:08
Speaker 2: my shoulders. Ah, but they were there. But they were
54:14
Speaker 2: always great, great person wonderful people. That's the best you know,
54:20
Speaker 2: the best person is until Phil. You know, I had
54:24
Speaker 2: moved on by the until Phil, you know, uh discovered
54:27
Speaker 2: the the wonders of hard drugs and that was a
54:32
Speaker 2: tough thing for that and when they when they broke up,
54:34
Speaker 2: it was so sad that this band who were just
54:39
Speaker 2: like they were again, completely authentic doing something and no
54:42
Speaker 2: one else is doing and so fucking good at it. Yeah,
54:46
Speaker 2: you know, I was number one, the number one fan,
54:49
Speaker 2: and when I signed them, I knew that number one,
54:53
Speaker 2: you know, radio was playing a r and I knew
54:56
Speaker 2: they would never be on radio. Number two the n TV,
55:00
Speaker 2: he was still going as a number of marketing tool,
55:03
Speaker 2: and I knew this band would never be an MTV band.
55:06
Speaker 2: So I said, you know, I'm going to market the
55:08
Speaker 2: band by first of all getting a good manager. And
55:10
Speaker 2: I found him a good manager, a guy called Walter O'Brien,
55:13
Speaker 2: and putting my money or other money in the record
55:16
Speaker 2: of the company's money. By their tour, I said, you
55:18
Speaker 2: go out there and tore your rass off, because if
55:20
Speaker 2: you could convince being in three songs, you know, you
55:24
Speaker 2: got five hundred people. And then six months later, five
55:26
Speaker 2: thousand people were shot. And sure enough, that's.
55:29
Speaker 1: What happened, exactly what happened.
55:31
Speaker 2: And then Cowboys from Hell came out and it blew
55:35
Speaker 2: into the top five, and then the second album, Volgar
55:40
Speaker 2: dis by a Power came out it went right at
55:42
Speaker 2: number one.
55:43
Speaker 1: You re established the career of ac DC This is
55:45
Speaker 1: a great story. Talk about this. At the time you
55:47
Speaker 1: worked with them, they were on Atlantic and on the
55:50
Speaker 1: verge of being dropped.
55:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. And that that was when I heard
55:55
Speaker 2: the news that they were thinking of dropping a CDC.
55:59
Speaker 2: I mean, I just like you can't drop acc they
56:03
Speaker 2: are rock and roll. This what was about? So I
56:08
Speaker 2: I had inherited a couple of artists on that co.
56:12
Speaker 2: I had to size and new artists of course, including
56:15
Speaker 2: Panther and Dream Theater, et cetera, et cetera. But I
56:19
Speaker 2: had Stevie Nicks and Pete Townsend I inherited from the
56:23
Speaker 2: old at Co repertoire. And I said to the head
56:27
Speaker 2: of the Water people it was a war of music
56:30
Speaker 2: group thing. How about instead of you dropping a and
56:34
Speaker 2: them not having a label, I take them on and
56:37
Speaker 2: I'll trade Stevie Nicks to Atlantic. Was almost like a
56:42
Speaker 2: baseball trade. And uh, you know, a CC was known
56:47
Speaker 2: as being very anti They would not allow people around
56:53
Speaker 2: them in the record couple of people around. They thought
56:56
Speaker 2: the record guys were all suits and no knew nothing
56:59
Speaker 2: about what was like. Thankfully I got the word from
57:05
Speaker 2: their brother George, who was in the back of the
57:08
Speaker 2: Easy beats, and he said, if it's the same Derek
57:13
Speaker 2: Shulman that was in the group Simon Dupree, then he's
57:16
Speaker 2: a musician. His is that Mike, Malcolm and Angus and
57:21
Speaker 2: I was able to get their Trustn't that amazing?
57:25
Speaker 1: This is why how life works like that?
57:29
Speaker 2: And they opened the door to me.
57:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had to blow up your video and
57:32
Speaker 1: came out and eighty eight it did okay.
57:34
Speaker 2: Just okay, and then flicker the switch before.
57:37
Speaker 1: Right flick of the switch. But then that came. Then
57:40
Speaker 1: comes Razor's Edge.
57:41
Speaker 2: And so I said, you know that guys here, let's
57:44
Speaker 2: let's get you back to where you should be. And I,
57:48
Speaker 2: you know, got got them in touch with my go
57:50
Speaker 2: to producers Bruce Fairburn Bob Rock in Vancouver and Gain
57:56
Speaker 2: I said, look, you don't have to record tomorrow, give
57:59
Speaker 2: you let's let's get some time. But you know, and
58:01
Speaker 2: put put together a great a CDC album And and
58:05
Speaker 2: to be fair, Bruce fair and brought they assisted on
58:08
Speaker 2: as well, because they would they would die to work
58:11
Speaker 2: hoard them, but only when they had the great songs. Uh.
58:15
Speaker 2: So we all went up to Vancouver and we produced
58:18
Speaker 2: the Razor's Edge and we decided what the first track
58:21
Speaker 2: was going to be, and we put it out and
58:24
Speaker 2: Thunderstruck hit the hit the way our waves and a
58:28
Speaker 2: CdCO was back in a huge way.
58:30
Speaker 1: And it's a song you still hear everywhere, sports stadiums, everywhere,
58:36
Speaker 1: and it had money talks and it had are you
58:40
Speaker 1: ready that that whole album I love And really they
58:44
Speaker 1: haven't looked back ever since.
58:45
Speaker 2: I mean, and you know that we did the live
58:48
Speaker 2: album then and that's uh, you know, that was me,
58:51
Speaker 2: I hope, you know, helping them to rediscover there their
58:56
Speaker 2: uh you know, there their chops and and what they
58:59
Speaker 2: should be on as as the probably one of the
59:03
Speaker 2: best ever rock and roll bands.
59:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, hands down. Now another story similar is Bad Company.
59:09
Speaker 1: This is a band without Paul Rodgers. Brian Howe was
59:12
Speaker 1: the lead singer. They had been written off. Talk about
59:15
Speaker 1: how you get them back into the spotlight.
59:17
Speaker 2: Same kind of situation. The manager begged me actually to
59:21
Speaker 2: to there. They were going to be dropped agay, and
59:25
Speaker 2: Brian was a singer. They had They had one album
59:28
Speaker 2: out with Brian, but Brian didn't get along with the
59:33
Speaker 2: rest of the band. Brian has had an ego a
59:36
Speaker 2: great singer, but had neo that really put make mc
59:42
Speaker 2: gralf's back up a lot, and and and really opened
59:45
Speaker 2: his mouth too much, you know, in the shoes of
59:49
Speaker 2: Paul Rodgers. I mean that's it's a difficult it's a
59:53
Speaker 2: difficult hole to fill basically, and Brian tried to. I
59:57
Speaker 2: mean he did feel it actually in a major way.
1:00:00
Speaker 2: But his vocals and his style were not exactly what
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Bad Company used to be. But I knew Brian. This
1:00:09
Speaker 2: is a crazy story because the manager said would you
1:00:12
Speaker 2: take over this this this job of being on ADC,
1:00:16
Speaker 2: And I said, Okay, I think I will because I
1:00:19
Speaker 2: knew Brian was a really good singer, a great singer.
1:00:22
Speaker 2: And the producer Terry Thomas, I knew very well as well.
1:00:26
Speaker 1: He was previously with Ted Nugi, Right Brian, How.
1:00:29
Speaker 2: Brian was news singer? Yeah, but I knew him from
1:00:34
Speaker 2: way way before that, because he was from my hometown
1:00:37
Speaker 2: of Portsmouth and he used to come see gentle giant rehearse.
1:00:43
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so he's English, and I could relate to
1:00:47
Speaker 2: him as as a person that from from my towntown.
1:00:51
Speaker 2: And I knew that he had a mouth on him
1:00:54
Speaker 2: that would put people's backs up, but I could I
1:00:56
Speaker 2: could tell Brian, Brian, shut the f up.
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:01:00
Speaker 2: And you know if you said that to a musician,
1:01:03
Speaker 2: you know, generally you as a record company guy, you
1:01:07
Speaker 2: you would get a you know, either a punch in
1:01:10
Speaker 2: the nose or or fuck you. But he would listen
1:01:13
Speaker 2: to me, so, you know, he would, he would. We could,
1:01:16
Speaker 2: We could relate to each other, and so I was
1:01:19
Speaker 2: able to get them to record together because Mick and
1:01:24
Speaker 2: and Simon, you know, they were like this guy, but
1:01:28
Speaker 2: we can't, you know, we really can't deal with But
1:01:30
Speaker 2: we did and we were produced the album Holy Water,
1:01:35
Speaker 2: and that album just again just blew into the charts.
1:01:39
Speaker 2: That single went number one If.
1:01:40
Speaker 1: He Needed Somebody, the title track, and there's one more yeah.
1:01:46
Speaker 2: Three, four, three or four singles on that and bad
1:01:49
Speaker 2: Company was told of the charts again, all be different
1:01:54
Speaker 2: kind of bad Company.
1:01:57
Speaker 1: Find the Bookdown Rock website at bookdown Rock. There and
1:02:01
Speaker 1: can find all the back episodes of the show, the
1:02:03
Speaker 1: latest episode in video and audio, links to all of
1:02:06
Speaker 1: the platforms where you can listen to the podcast, plus
1:02:09
Speaker 1: all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
1:02:14
Speaker 1: and x. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
1:02:17
Speaker 1: Find your local independent bookstore. Find out all the latest
1:02:20
Speaker 1: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
1:02:23
Speaker 1: the booked on rock online store. Pick up some booked
1:02:25
Speaker 1: on rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com. Well,
1:02:30
Speaker 1: there's so much more on the book. I didn't even
1:02:32
Speaker 1: ask you about Enough's Enough, Kingdom Come and Dream Theater.
1:02:36
Speaker 1: You became president of Roadrunner Records, overseeing signings of Slipknot
1:02:40
Speaker 1: and Nickelback. Amazing career. I want to finish by asking
1:02:44
Speaker 1: you about your epilogue in the book. And you recently
1:02:49
Speaker 1: had a chance to revisit your gentle giant music through
1:02:53
Speaker 1: a project involving the nineteen seventy three album in a Glasshouse,
1:02:57
Speaker 1: And there was a pretty emotional experience for you in
1:02:59
Speaker 1: a Did you think about your dad and your late
1:03:02
Speaker 1: brother Ray and your brother Phil and your bandmates and
1:03:05
Speaker 1: talk about that.
1:03:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still in the middle of almost finished actually
1:03:09
Speaker 2: that and that you know, there's there's something I mentioned, Well,
1:03:15
Speaker 2: didn't know the whole idea that tech and and has
1:03:20
Speaker 2: taken over and and has kind of flattened out a
1:03:23
Speaker 2: lot of creativity. However, you know, I'm using the highest
1:03:27
Speaker 2: end AI to separate the track That album was the
1:03:32
Speaker 2: only was an album that we couldn't find the multi
1:03:35
Speaker 2: tracks to We've remixed or Stephen Wilson has done a
1:03:38
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of remixing for us on our catalog,
1:03:43
Speaker 2: but that one, the multis we just could not find.
1:03:47
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm in the studio now remixing in a Glasshouse.
1:03:51
Speaker 2: That was the album after my brother Phil left and
1:03:54
Speaker 2: we went into the studio with a very hard record
1:03:56
Speaker 2: to make. But I'm using this highest in ai. It's
1:04:01
Speaker 2: much more it's even much more further advanced than the
1:04:06
Speaker 2: Beatles here now or whether it's called. And I'm able
1:04:09
Speaker 2: to separate the tracks individually, and it's brought back a
1:04:14
Speaker 2: lot of memories. And we're putting this album out in
1:04:17
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six and it's it sounds it sounds so good,
1:04:23
Speaker 2: and I'm just listening to it almost like it's the
1:04:26
Speaker 2: first time, and I'm sitting there saying to myself and
1:04:30
Speaker 2: I'm saying to my insient here, damn we were damn good.
1:04:34
Speaker 2: You know really? Yeah, could I could actually say it
1:04:36
Speaker 2: out loud? Where do those ideas come from? You know,
1:04:40
Speaker 2: it's it's it's you know, it's amazing to me, you know,
1:04:43
Speaker 2: so I'm yeah, that's That's exactly what I'm doing as
1:04:47
Speaker 2: we speak.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: Looking forward to that. In the meantime, the book is out.
1:04:52
Speaker 1: Let's see did it? It's out to Okay December second
1:04:57
Speaker 1: through job On Press, so people can get a word.
1:05:00
Speaker 1: Her books are sold all the usual outlets. You can
1:05:02
Speaker 1: go to a book down rock dot com to find
1:05:05
Speaker 1: your nearest independent bookstore to see if you want to
1:05:07
Speaker 1: find a copy there. And where can people find you online?
1:05:10
Speaker 2: Derek five you through a gentlegiant band dot com. We
1:05:14
Speaker 2: have our own you know, merched and and is taking
1:05:17
Speaker 2: care of my son has done a ton of uh
1:05:21
Speaker 2: helping the keeping the legacy alive. I feeling and the
1:05:25
Speaker 2: great thing is is that I'm you know again, When
1:05:29
Speaker 2: I think back about my life, through through the book
1:05:33
Speaker 2: and through whatever I've done, the thing that really I
1:05:40
Speaker 2: and I hope that comes through is is that I
1:05:44
Speaker 2: was raised in the musical house or music has been
1:05:47
Speaker 2: everything to me. And when I while I'm doing this
1:05:52
Speaker 2: this album in a glasshouse, it really reiterated who I
1:05:56
Speaker 2: am and what I am music and musician. Even though
1:06:00
Speaker 2: I was you know, an an R guy and ran
1:06:03
Speaker 2: Company's music was everything everything and that's still that brought
1:06:07
Speaker 2: it home to me.
1:06:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, reminded you what it's all about. That at the
1:06:11
Speaker 1: core of it is the music. It's an incredible talent.
1:06:13
Speaker 1: It's a gift that you give to us, the music fans,
1:06:16
Speaker 1: that you can't put a price on it.
1:06:18
Speaker 2: Well, again, it wasn't about fame of fortune. It was
1:06:21
Speaker 2: about playing music.
1:06:23
Speaker 1: Derek Sherman, thank you so much.
1:06:24
Speaker 2: My pleasure. That's it. It's in the books.