Latest / The Dead Pair Podcast / 272 Wendell Cherry: The Self-Aware Shooter - Part 2

Transcript

272 Wendell Cherry: The Self-Aware Shooter - Part 2 · The Dead Pair Podcast

• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome back, everyone, for part two of the self-aware shooter with Wendell Cherry.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, listen, before we get started on that, we do have a quick turning talk to get to.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's turning talk.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Brought to you by Scorechaser.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, the Sportsman's Training Center has now opened up two shoots for 2027.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: One is the Sportsman's Cup, which will be held March 18th through the 21st, and the Atlas Cup, which will be held September 16th through the 19th.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_05: Both of those are for 2027.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_05: And the Sportsman's Training Center is in Kansas.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_05: So get over, check those out.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_05: Those are two really big shoots.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, Atlas being a sponsor of the show.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: We support them 100%.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: So, and this, I know Chris and everybody over at Sportsman's Training Center do a really good job with their tournaments.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_05: So get over and check those out.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: We might have some more on both of those tournaments here in the near future, but they are now up and available on Scorechaser.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, before we get into part two here, a reminder Deadpool Blast, get signed up.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh the Dead Pro Cola Gun, get your raffle tickets, because that's going to come up faster than you think.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_05: And also stick around after this is over with.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_05: I have a little bit more tidbit of information that uh Wendell and I didn't cover in the interview, uh, but I think you're gonna find very interesting.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_05: So stick around afterwards, and here we are back again with Wendell Cherry and David Radolvich.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_07: The deck.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_05: We're back.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and after our little meal, we're we're having dessert.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to Taconic Distillery.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, remember everyone, after the tournament's over, it's time for one more shot with Taconic Distillery.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: We are enjoying their pre-made old-fashioned, Wendell.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: What do you think?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: You like it?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's awesome.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_05: That's I mean, look, and Wendell Cherry says it's awesome.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's you know it's good.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's pretty good.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Wendell, I one of the things I didn't have in my notes, and we've kind of brushed on it a few times in the podcast, is confidence.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: Would you say that overconfidence is as much of a detriment as not having enough confidence?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm not sure there's such a thing as overconfidence.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe that's ego.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And confidence is is um hard to gain and very e easy to lose.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's why you really have to take care of your inner dialogue and and and make sure that you're thinking in in a positive manner to try to grow that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: And most of my confidence comes from scores that I shoot, but uh also my training and um and in my techniques.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh but being overconfident, um I I I don't know that there's such a thing as uh that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I would um I would agree uh um uh if I would and I would filter it like this confidence requires evidence to gain, but a thought to lose.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And the um and so being overly confident only shows up if you are not using all the evidence.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and where where it would it would um the only way I think it would be possible to interpret that to where overconfidence could be bad is if your overconfidence led you to not require evidence to help you make a strategic decision in real time on the course, and you chose something based off of a thought as opposed to direct evidence.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um like, oh, I think that um like for example you see a presentation and you make a choice to strategically shoot it in a way that is too hard, and then you miss some that you shouldn't.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: But you may think that you're using that you could use overconfidence as the thing to point the blame at for making that mistake and missing, but the reality of it is is that it's over like too much ego that uh really kind of tricked you into not thinking about w how do I feel right now and what is my current capability to do in this moment.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: So that ego swayed your decision.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: The ego swayed the decision, not being too confident, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and you know, another thing too, Wendell, and you and I have had um a lot of conversation off camera about it too, is self-image.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I remember and and and I referred to this in our previous conversation, I remember years ago, um you and I had a private conversation, and I and I told you that you know, I I want to stay in double A forever, I'll never be able to beat you guys at the top, and you're like, wait a minute, how do you know that?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, there's so many people in this game, I guess you can throw the ego word back out there, that you'll never be at the top, or well, you're too young, or you're too old, or you're too whatever.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_05: And you're the only one that looked at me and said, wait a minute, how do you know that?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Try.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_05: You don't know until you try.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, uh talk about that for a minute because you're someone that's really big on self-image, and and not only with yourself, but with your students.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um I I you we hear it on the course all the time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I suck.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_05: That's the worst thing, right?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I think your self-image needs to be grown every chance you get.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, uh when I worked with Lanny Basham, um, he had a way of keeping notes.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: And uh at the uh top of the page was date and venue.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Under that was objective with some lines, maybe a space like this, and then what what I did, what was it, what was the next section?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: About uh an equal space, and then the largest space on the page was this big, and it's what I did well.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so he gave you the most room to to write there.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Then he gave you a half a line on the smallest section, and it and he stated it as what needs improvement, and you had about that much of one line to write on.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_06: Really?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's I think that's very smart.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think keeping unjournal, keeping notes, uh, all of those things help grow your self-image.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_05: David, I mean he's looking at me, he's got a he's got a smirk on his face, he's dying to say something here.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_05: No, um so you know, you and I have talked about it a little bit, David, is self-image, and and we are mutually friends with people that are bad at that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um so and you're you're you're the happiest go-lucky guy in the world because you don't care if you just lost by 30 targets or one by 10.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, um, but you're self like but you you have that self-image of yourself as I don't need my I don't let my score dictate who I am.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_05: So how do you work with your students on that?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_05: If they come to you and it's like, man, I suck, I can't hit this, I can't do that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I'm sure you get it just like Wendell does.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_05: What do you do with your students, or or is it a lot like what Wendell's saying?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: Do you handle it the same way?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_05: How do I how do I if if a student comes to you with a bad self-image, how do you correct that?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: You have to give them evidence.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I you can't talk somebody into having confidence.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_05: No, well, yeah, I'm not talking about confidence, I'm talking about their own self-image.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_05: Which is I mean, they're both related.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: I like the the um you can't the the only thing really that you can do um is like that that's getting into the psychology of it where it doesn't matter like you that part of the game requires effort more than any other part of the game from the disciple.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you can tell somebody whatever you want, but it d it matters how they listen.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: And how they believe.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but but especially how they listen.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because um if I'm talking to you about trying to remind you of all of the good performances that you've had, or I'm trying to give you evidence about things you've done in a lesson that like, you know, look at like you can do this, you know, the the think about or like you know, whatever I'm trying to do, if I'm trying to pull you into a place to mold or influence your self-image, if you're listening to me arguing and debating what I'm saying in your head, you're not gonna hear anything that I said.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, it it's data that we have about 70,000 thoughts per day, 85% of which is negative.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, one thing that helped me with that is once I learned that the conscious mind, if you take, let's say, science and math away from the conscious mind, it it it is a drama queen, it lies, and it's totally a fear-based thing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and and kind of when I learned that, it it took its power away from it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and you know, if I started to have those kind of thoughts, I go, there you go again.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right, but I'm not I I'm not gonna buy it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and for me personally, and and maybe not everybody is like this, um if I have a bad day, uh um I don't enjoy it, that's for sure.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: But it doesn't really take my confidence either.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of like I told you earlier, I kind of believe whatever happens that day was supposed to happen, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and maybe you fell that day, but it's just preparing you for something that's maybe more important.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and so I I no matter what happens, it's not gonna really shake me up too much.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe for an hour, right, you know, but there's not gonna for me, it's not gonna be any long-term thing.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I've I've competed in a lot of other sports, uh you know, racing sports, but never did you hear somebody say, Well, my truck sucks, or my car sucks, or I suck, or anything like that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_05: You never heard that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I've I I've I've often thought about this.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if Tom Brady goes in at halftime and all he does is bitch about the interception he threw in the first quarter.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know that doesn't happen.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know the only thing that's on his mind, his teammate's mind, and his coach is how to win this football game.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's all they're talking about.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's all they're thinking about.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't go into halftime thinking, man, did you see that horrible pass I threw?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: That was horrible.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: But we do that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: But we do have the sporting class.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I bet I bet you Tom, Tom doesn't do that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the clubhouse can be the worst place for chat or anything.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: And what I mean by that is, you know, usually after a round, you go in for lunch or dinner or whatever, and you hear, I wish I had that station back.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_05: I can't believe I missed that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: I suck at this, you know, and you hear all of this, and it's like, where did this come from?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_05: Because in any other sport it doesn't exist, but I throw a clay pot out in the sky and you take your souped-up BB gun and miss it, and all of a sudden you suck.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_05: Now come, I mean, where did this come from?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: I I wish we could eliminate it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, me too.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I actually want to revise my answer to the first question.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, here we go.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Hold on, buckle up.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Second answer.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Buckle, buckle up.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: Hang on, as soon as everybody get a drink, now I'm ready for the second answer.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: You ain't ready yet, so um I think it's possible to be overconfident because uh and and and well, I mean, yeah, it's uh possible, but that's the the argument the question was is it bad is it bad?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um I think it can be because I'm thinking about as you guys are talking, I'm thinking about myself and things that I do.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And um is it overconfidence?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is it ego?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think in a different way.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: It made me think about when you said the thing about the clubhouse, um, and I'm thinking about like you know, I never once ever have a negative thought about my shoe.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I mess up, I do something bad, it doesn't hurt, it doesn't make me feel bad.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think, oh my god, that was terrible.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't get mad, I don't get I don't get upset, I um it doesn't faze me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a bad thing, but the reason why it doesn't faze me is because I don't it doesn't challenge my understanding of how good that I am.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you could argue that that's a good thing, but I think one thing that that does is if I was trying to steel man the opposite side of the argument of the of the debate, I would say that that is a bad it can be a bad thing or a dangerous thing because um then what is going to make me feel like uh I think it's harder for me to sometimes assess reality.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like if I if I go and shoot ten shoots back to back where I'm terrible, I don't think I'm terrible.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: I could put it an a viable argument for my resume being one of the best in the game.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think, well, those bad performances are not me.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm one of the best in the game.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: But eventually you get to where you go long enough, and if your answer to the fact of my performances aren't as good as they should be, is that well that is not a reflection of how good that I am because of XYZ, then I think it can lead you to not put the magnifying glass on yourself enough.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it and it can lead you to not practicing when you should.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it could lead you to not working as hard as you need to when you should.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree with that, Wendell?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: About me specifically.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that that's just something that that would never happen to me.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because I love to work.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm talking about for me.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you would you agree with that?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's I I don't think any result has any effect on you uh uh to to any long-term d degree at all.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, maybe a moment, but no more than that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I've really ever seen a result have any effect on you.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hardly at all.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: One way or the other.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and that's you know, Wendell, you and I've had that conversation how dangerous David is to his competitors, yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_05: Because of that.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: But also to myself.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you could be the your own worst nightmare.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I'm gonna is that all you want to say?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's done.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: We're done.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um I want to shift gears for a minute, Wendell.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you're known as a maintained lead shooter.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and if and I'm asking this because if somebody hears this podcast and they're like, man, Wendell really knows what he's talking about with self-awareness and stuff, I'd love to come take a lesson.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_05: Are you at the point in your coaching career that if somebody is a different style of shooter, you'll work with them no matter what, or is it, hey, look, you need to learn the way I teach, and we're gonna start there.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_05: And then we'll work on the other thing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not that guy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um it it it's gotta be the way I teach it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there's and that's not out of ego, that's not out of anything other than um respect, really.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: It it's it's it's just science.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and if if you really want me to help you, you gotta do it this way.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, it's what you know and what you believe in.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's it but but I've shot all those other things too.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: I've studied under Kyle Allial years ago.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: I started life as a swing-through shooter.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like I don't know.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like I just championed this one way.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um I I I've done I've done all those other things, and I I just i if if you want to shoot some other way, you've got to go to somebody that teaches that way.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I would tell you not to do it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: But so in other words, I'm not gonna teach you swing through.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or or or any of that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I just don't think that's the best way.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't make sense for Wendell to to do that because that would be like um I don't think I'd go to work if I had to do that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I think the big thing is that why would you teach something that you know in like you would if you were doing that, then you kind of would feel like you're stealing somebody's money.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because it y that's like saying I wouldn't be totally honest, would I?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't be being honest.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that's where I think the the reality comes into play is that I I really do believe this.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'll probably get a lot of crap on I mean, but who am I to care about that?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've never been one to run run away from it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if you're somebody that teaches like that, where it's like, oh yeah, well, I'll teach you whatever method, they uh I think that really what you're doing is saying I I'll take I'll take the money.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take the money and I'll and I'll tell you what you want to hear so that you come back.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the I won't take the money.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, because if I and multiple times, if um like you know, I mean uh and but and I'll do the opposite.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh double down on it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like if someone were to come to a lesson with me, uh uh like after hearing this, if they reference this in a lesson and they book it, not being the type of shooter that uh that uh shooting the style that I teach and they want to try and I can't get it to work within five shots with them earnestly trying, not purposely screwing up, I'll give you your money back and finish the lesson.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because it it's if if you don't leave it thinking, oh yeah, that was so much different, that is so much better, that is so much easier in the shot than anything else, that is so much clearer, calmer.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you your money back.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put that on.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll I'm editing this, so I'm gonna keep it in.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm dead serious because it is better.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if and uh Jason asked me in the car on the way up here if he should ask you that question.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: I said, absolutely ask him that question because I know what his answer will be.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and and that's not out of ego, that's not zero ego.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: That you know, that's not to say I'm right and you're wrong.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's none of that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that you hired me to do the best job I can.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and uh that's what I'm gonna do.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and but you know, to your point, Wendell, I mean, you've built a career out of coaching this way.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you've got look, we've talked about your resume that keeps getting longer and longer of all the world champions you have.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: I under well I understand your point.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Why would I teach something?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: I just didn't know if you were willing to work with a student more on their self-awareness and understanding themselves, regardless of what method, but I can understand how the method you teach is is goes right in line with that self-awareness.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: Because you can find that self-awareness better in that method.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_05: So um if you you know the worst thing I ever heard, and I don't mean any offense to anybody by this, is grip it and rip it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: What in the hell are you doing in sporting clays gripping it?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_05: This is not motocross.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I've won every tournament I've ever shown.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Just grip and rip it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_05: But in doing that, you take you we talked about how your feet feel, the tension in your body, everything.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: No, you take all of that away.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's all gone.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's all gone.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: So I can understand why you would say, hey, look, we're gonna shoot it my way.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_05: And let me teach you.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I I I think that's awesome.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, I do want to I do want to close with with something here.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so anybody that's uh that's stuck with us and you know tolerated David and his rambling.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna keep that statement in and edit everything that I ever said of this whole podcast.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: At least I'll know.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: So if somebody's listening to this, um, I I I wrote this question down here.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_05: It says, um, tomorrow I go to the range with a hundred shells.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: How do I practice self-awareness instead of just breaking targets?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's a good question.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: Then this is a this is uh this is a little bit of coach's tip you can see.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so so so so we're talking about post shot, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so while boom is still in your ears, boom, right, that moment you should know exactly where your eyes were.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and I mean I I mean while boom is still in your ears, boom, know where your eyes were precisely.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um second thing to evaluate is how did that feel?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And by that I mean you you should be monitoring for tension because most shooters have tension.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh as as your tension builds, your visual cones gonna get bigger, it's gonna be harder to see.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so those would be the very first two things I would uh ask myself, right?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um depending on what style you shot and w what what what's your objective for the day.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um is it your start time, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh for two objects to move together, they gotta start together, which I almost see nobody do.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um I told you this earlier.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Your your response time, like a practiced athlete, uh, would be uh 0.5 seconds, a half a second.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um in a half a second, a target at fifth 50 miles an hour is traveled 34 feet.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: So do you think if it starts 34 feet before you do, that you're in flow with it?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well let's say you're exceptional and and and your response time is 0.25, still travel 17 feet.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to pay very close attention to every detail, right?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: To everything.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Your thought, your vision, your mechanics, and and um, you know, know what your objective is before you load the car to go.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I always know what I'm gonna do the next time I go out.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh I never finish that practice session without making a note, this is what I need to do the next time out.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: So always know what it is you're trying to fix.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, so much of this stuff you're not gonna fit figure out on your own.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're just not because so much of it is backwards to what common sense would say that it is.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and so it's just something that you're probably not gonna find yourself.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Go get a good coach.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: It speeds it speeds the time up, speeds the money up.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh so in other words, saves you a lot of money.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh, and you'll be on a proper path.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Standing out there, just shooting gobs of uh of rounds, not really knowing if this is optimal or not, is not the way to do it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh back to the the guy that wants to take a hundred shells and go try and find that self-awareness.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I'm and I'm asked this as much of a question as it is a statement.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: I find with myself, sometimes in order for my body to be in the right position and moving correctly, sometimes that feels uncomfortable.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and and everybody wants to feel comfortable during the shot, but sometimes you know, you think about a pair where the targets are, you know, on opposite, you know, polar opposite sides of the field, you've you've had to do that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of big gun movement.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_05: That twist that sometimes has to come in there, or whatever it is, that tension we talk about, sometimes those are uncomfortable feelings, but at the end of the day, if you were to if you were to have a shot cam on and look at how your gun moved, you'd be like, that looks smooth as hell.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_05: But if you did it this other way and you're just gripping and ripping, go watch that shot cam.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's right.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_05: Would you agree with that?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, certain um stations are just gonna not be comfortable.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and so at that point, you just gotta try to survive it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, uh getting out of that comfort zone, I think, is how we all learn.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I Well, you know, when when I go practice, I I I actually this sounds crazy, but I go to the hardest target, fastest target with the most compressed time frame on the course.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I stand on the trap arm.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say the trap is here, throwing the target this way, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna stand parallel to the trap arm, so I have to confront 100% of the speed off the arm, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's the most uncomfortable spot any shooter can stand.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because you have to you have to take all the speed right, right, right off the trap.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and so for you to do that well, you you've got to really have control of your tension, your start time, and your eye speed.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so what I do a lot in in practice is I go find the most uncomfortable shot practicing being comfortable.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I actually go seek out tension, try to trigger tension just to control it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: Find that find that uncomfortable position.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, here's the thing: you you have to train beyond what you're asked to do in a match.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I believe, and I have I've heard uh uh uh other great shooters say this is once the match pressure starts, we're gonna lose 10 to 15 percent of your trust.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I believe that to be true for most people.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe not David.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe he's the one that doesn't, but m most everybody is gonna lose about 10% or so.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're only training up to your comfort level to 85%, and and and and then you due to match stress lose 15% more, 70% is not gonna be enough.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: But if we're training at 100% or more, right, and then we lose 10%, we're still high enough to compete.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we I always try to in training come up with drills and a way um to to maximize that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm training beyond what I'm gonna be asked to do under pressure.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_06: Makes total sense.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: So so that's that's just something that I do um for my own shooting and my my my own students.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: So so we spend a lot of time triggering tension just to control it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that way on game day, it's probably not gonna be as hard as we make make that shot in practice.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you should survive it.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_05: That makes total sense.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think that's I think that's why Tom was able to kill his last pair for the world was from all those scenarios, and that was a very tense moment.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just a lot of stress in that, and uh uh I think that's why he prevailed is from all that training for that one pair.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that changed everything, yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um is not a really good response.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's I'm he's you can see the gears spinning, that's why I was giving him a minute here.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I th I was thinking about adding something, but I don't really have anything to add.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, y'all talked all the words out of me.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we we are running out of a you know five terabyte SD card here, so um maybe we gotta go so uh I mean I we don't I would say if you have any other questions, do them because I can tell it's good now.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, tell tell what's good now.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: The con the thinking amongst the three of us.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it was bad for a while, but now it's good.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um so and here's you know, I know I said we'll wrap up this question.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_05: Here I am asking more questions.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry, Wendell.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: We answer questions for jobs.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: I know, right?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I enjoy speaking to both of you.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_05: So um have you ever noticed when things are going right, and and and I say let's let's stop for a minute.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_05: Things going right means your ability to focus, your ability to have complete self-awareness in a match or in a round.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_05: And it's you're in a three-pair station and you're putting shells in the gun at the fourth pair, and you're like, Mr.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: Cherry, Mr.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: You're done with your pairs.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_05: And then you get done and you're like, We're done.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_05: You don't realize you're you're so dead set on the process of everything, how you're feeling, what's going on, and then all of a sudden it's like, wow, we're done.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then it's like, oh, I'm only down five targets.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_05: I just won.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I mean, and it's it's like that that that happens very rarely for me.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think it I I think it doesn't happen very often for anybody, but I do think everybody's experienced that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, at some point, yeah, yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Typically though, if it's a major event, you've got photographers following you, and you you you know, and so you know it's on.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not like that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: It is uh you're just trying to hang on, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, trying to keep it together.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, but like you said, that's that's when you feel a lot.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's um that you you that that eventually becomes why you do it.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's the the most addicting state you can be in.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that's there's nothing like that.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_05: That dopamine rush is just incredible, but unfortunately, I've been on the backside of when that doesn't finish well.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_05: More often.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody knows.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: You have to know, yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you don't the first time that you're there, it it was an accident that you did it well.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you don't know how to control it until you've messed it up enough times to know how to control it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that brings me to a story.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: So so I'm gonna go back to Tom say.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so a few years back, David and Tom and I were shooting nationals.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Tom was leading going into Sunday morning.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um I never will forget this.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we're on yellow course, and Tom's first to shoot of the of the day.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a true pair, quarter and away.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Tom gets in the box, and he is so wound up that I'm I thought he was gonna shoot targets on the carousel.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: And he was that jacked.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and and he drops about four on the first station.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now the tournament's over.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: And you can see his face and his dreams just fall to the ground.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And he, you know, he shows a little bit of anger on the next one, not too much.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: By the third one, he's back to normal and and shoots his butt off.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: But it's too late.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we and and so we we don't actually talk the whole round.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: At the end, I'm I'm putting my stuff on the cart, and he walks over and I go, you know, Tom, that had to happen.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, What?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: I go, that had to happen.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: For you to ever become a champion, that had to happen.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, the next time you're there, that won't happen.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I asked him on Sunday at the roll, I said, Did you think about that?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, That's all I thought about.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you want an example about influencing someone's personality.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and he's I I said, Well, why what did you think?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Don't go fast.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Take your time, slow down, take your time.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and so slow down, Stephen.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, so think about that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: He you he he could have said, I'm a failure and I've lost confidence, and I'm never going to be a champion because you just threw the national championship away.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I can tell you this.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: I would trade a national championship for a world fee task any day of the week.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it led him to something way bigger.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I'm that's what I'm talking about.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if you talked to him right after that, he he probably wouldn't have seen it that way.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: But it was the very thing that brought that championship um a few few few few weeks ago to Tom was the failure at San Antonio.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: If it would have been a success in San Antonio, it would have been a failure in Portugal.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: That makes total sense.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's why that's why you don't lose confidence from failure.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because uh because what it seems like at the moment's not what it's going to be.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not because it's not because um of some weird yin and yang thing.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's more so uh like w with the statement I just said about if it didn't if it went well in San Antonio, it wouldn't have not it would have not gone well in Portugal.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's has nothing to do with like a balance of anything.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: It has to do because with the fact that if he it went well for him at nationals, he wouldn't have known how.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right to handle that there.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_05: He wouldn't have had that experience to go off of.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Not not just but but it's really important to understand both sides of it because it's not that he wouldn't have had the experience of failing.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's also that if he won it for the first time, he would have not known actually what he chose not to do.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, absolutely it does.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_05: You know, guys, uh between the two of you, I get a lot of emails.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_05: I get a lot of people come up to me at tournaments and stuff, and they're like, hey, can I ask your advice?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, no.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_05: I'll give you my opinion, yeah, but I don't give advice, trust me.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I I get it all the time.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and that's why I asked the 100 shoals question to you, because people tell me how much they work and to get off work and get to the range, the range last squad out's by three, they can't go shoot.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're going tournament to tournament, and you know, and I just 100 is all you can do, you better squeeze every ounce of feedback you can out of every shell.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: And know and know what it is you're there to do.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Not just go shoot and make noise.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Which which most people don't practice very well.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh Dave and I'll go out and like I might work all day just on start time.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that was that was my barn cat that's just turned over the ball can.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: She's probably been in this bourbon.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's enough bourbon for you, cat.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but no, you know, to your point, Tracy talks about that all the time.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: He goes on a course and it's like, they're just shooting.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: They're not working on anything, they're just shooting.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's not a enough reps on anything to actually move the ball down the field.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but the the questions I get asked a lot is, you know, I work a lot and you know, what do I do?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: I listen to your podcast and you guys talk about shooting.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: I want to go so bad.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what do I I what my opinion, my advice has always been is I who's your coach?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I don't have one.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's there's step one because that's going to be your biggest shortcut.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: It will be.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_05: And and then two, when you do have you know explain to your coach that you work these hours and you only have limited time, they're probably gonna tell you to back off tournaments.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_05: And let's go to the range and work on this homework.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'll say.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so that being said, um, I will put both of your contact informations down in the show description if anybody wants to get a hold of you.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_05: I know, David, you're working on other things right now.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_05: Are you are you taking a break with lessons for right now?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_05: Is that what would that be fair to say, or are you still working in lessons in between?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm always teaching.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't have um a uh like a published schedule.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um and Wendell, I know you're do you do you have a set schedule for teaching during the week?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_05: Or do you?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_05: Just get a hold of Just Cud and get your book down.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have a question that I want to ask both of you guys to finish up.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_05: You're gonna ask me?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both of you.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_05: Ask Wendell first.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll I'll c I'll probably ask myself the question too.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I saw this in a in an interview that I thought was really good, and I wish I remembered the name of the guy that was interviewing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um the you mean the host?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_06: It was just like Jason Rambo, the Dead Pair Podcast.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that one was overconfidence.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so he he at the very last question that he asked uh the guy, and uh you have to think about what this means before you answer it, and maybe you don't maybe you don't have an answer for it now.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um But the question was imagine yourself in a movie, like your life is a movie, um and everything that's happened in your life is on in this movie.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a whole audience of people watching, and right now in the movie, what would the audience be screaming at the TV that is so obvious but you don't realize it?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what that question means?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a hard question to answer.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think I'd have an audience So uh uh while while I'm thinking of my answer, I'll tell you something.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: The army used to have But I should say filter that question through shooting.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's about your shooting, not your life, you know.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like i if they were watching your li if they got to see your whole life, what would they be screaming at you like it's right there, you know, about your shooting.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Don't give up.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_06: You're just getting started.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, there you go.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_05: That for me, because the that and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to do this with Wendell so much is because of that self-awareness that I am finally aware of.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, like I I was the guy that was just out.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what it takes.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: It really does.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're really if you'll just get good at that, you won't do the bad stuff.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like that will stop on its own.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: If you're truly doing a great post shot, and um whatever you come up with is gonna be pretty close or pretty pr pretty good because you just won't do the bad.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_05: So what's everybody screaming at you, David?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Other than what the f are you doing?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_05: I I would say it would be more like WTF, are you saying?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, because if they saw my life, they would understand.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_05: So while you're thinking of your answer, uh I you may me you may remember this, Wendell.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_05: This was back in the late 80s, early 90s.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_05: The army used to have a recruiting commercial that said, and they had guys jumping out of helicopters and you know, treading through swamps and stuff.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_05: And they said, if anybody wrote a book about your life, would anybody want to read it?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_05: Now, I already know the answer to your book.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've had a great life.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_05: You you've had an amazing life.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: I have it it it it it's kind of been a storybook.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it has.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it truly is, and just and I don't know why it has, it's just been luck or I I I I it's it's just mainly luck.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't think so.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: And but it I I mean I've had a great ride.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so when things go bad for me, they uh you know, if I go have a bad season or a bad shoot, all I gotta do is look at my life, and I have a lot to have uh thanks for.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've had a great ride, I've never had to have a job, yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Everything I've done um uh is things I love.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I've and I've been able to make money doing it.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um uh I mean that that is success there.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, right?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've just had a a great ride.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: If it all ends tonight, I have no complaints.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's why when things go bad, I just gotta take a moment and think, man, you've been very lucky.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I mean I don't really know many people who's had a a better run at at it than me.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I I I truly don't know why that is.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, I think you say you said luck, but I would say uh you would know what this means.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if many people That a listening would, but it I think it's like uh energy.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_05: Or maybe it's back to tempo.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Could be.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it is.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: But but but but it's been uh and a great ride.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and I've loved every moment of it.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's all been good.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can't really think of any bad as far as my work.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've never um had anything bad really happen.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you are somebody who obsess obsesses over the things that you're passionate about and you immerse yourself in that, there is no luck.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's no such thing.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because every opportunity that you get, you you've created.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And all the energy that you put into what you do, every minute of every day, is the thing that goes out into the world and comes back and pays you performance.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, for me personally, like I I don't politic, I don't network, um, I don't hang out, i any of that stuff.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: I just go to work and I do the best job I can.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, that's all I do.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's not like I'm searching for it, it just kind of finds me.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_05: You know, well, but I think you create your own luck too, to some extent.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_05: I really do believe that.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but but you know, but it's been a great ride.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's been uh in shooting, you know, the last 30 years has been incredible.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you have a lot to be proud of.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, now it's just me and my mom as far as my family goes, so it's just down to the two of us, and really my family is my shooting family.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's nobody else.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you look on my phone, every phone call that's made except to my mom is a shooter.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's my family, yeah.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and stuff, but it's just been a great ride.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I don't have one bad thing to say.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they they did write books on David Nye.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_05: Mine's in a comedic section of Barnes Noble.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_05: David's is over between Professor Proton and Bill Nye, the science community.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: So but they ran out of paper at the press.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's it looks like a Warren Peace novel, is you know, but um David, did you think about your answer to your own question?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um He asked the question, he didn't have his own answer.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my my my light answer was the answer that I gave, the real answer.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um It's hard.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I think um I think if um everybody's screaming at you.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's right there.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I think that they would realize that they didn't have to scream would be my answer.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like because I think that they I think if everybody was watching my this is it sounds like this is a cop-out of an answer because that's meant to be a really hard question.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think if people were able to see my whole life, they would realize that I'm what they would be able to see is that despite like to their own surprise, the narrative in the movie was not what they thought it was.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: They would it would be one of those movies where like at the end of it you're like, Oh shit, I thought I came to watch a movie about this, but it was really about that.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think everybody would think if I if going into the movie that they would figure out why you know, they th they would think that there's something that I don't know about in my shooting that is causing me not to win, and then they would realize that I know all of it, and it's a choice.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the most transparent answer that I can give.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: Very good, dude.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_05: Very good.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um guys, this has been awesome, man.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, this is I know this is a long one, but there's so much good information here to a lot of people.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've enjoyed it.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you guys for coming.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure there's I'm gonna be on the drive home going, damn it, I should have asked him this.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's always there's always that.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_05: There's yeah, we are gonna enjoy another Taconic Distillery, though.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, off-camera.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Off-camera, yeah.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_05: What uh we need to do another one soon.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: This one's gonna be probably two or three-part series.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_05: So um thank you everyone for sticking with us through this whole thing.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, look, each and every week we say it, take someone new shooting, take them to a tournament, bring them up here to Big Red Oak, show them how awesome this place is, and introduce yourself and your friends to Wendell Cherry if you haven't met him.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, he's a very humble man, but if he's out on a tournament, you're probably not gonna find him.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't introduce yourself to him then.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: No, not that the parking lot's okay.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_05: Uh but uh, and of course, David is probably you could come up to David while he's you'll hear me coming.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: You could probably go up to David in between pairs.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you'll you'll either hear me coming or you'll see me going, but it's so um thank you, everyone.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: The deck.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_05: Well, everyone, I hope you enjoyed that two-part series with uh Wendell Cherry and David Rudolovich.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: Listen, I I wanted everyone to know the day after uh we recorded this, the next day, I went out and did a lesson with Wendell.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_05: Now, I probably should have done that before the interview, uh, because I ended up developing some questions that would have been good for the podcast.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: But I, you know, I understand that Wendell is very adamant about being a maintained lead shooter, but there's so many other things that I learned in that lesson that were so valuable you can apply to any form of shooting.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_05: You know, everything we talked about in this podcast was self-awareness and what the body is doing, what the eyes are doing, you know, where where your mind's at and what you're thinking.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, there was so much that went into it.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, I think I started shooting non sporting clays back in '94, and I wish I would have had this information back then because I'd be five times the shooter than I am today.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_05: But I I highly encourage anyone, if you can get down to Big Red Oak, take a lesson with Wendell.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_05: I it's, I'm telling you, it's worth every penny.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_05: We've interviewed several great coaches on this podcast.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we're up around episode 272, I think this one is, approaching 300.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, we've interviewed fabulous coaches over the years.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_05: I haven't had the opportunity to take a lesson with all of them, obviously.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_05: But Wendell is, I'm telling you, the way he translates and the way he is in the lesson is incredible.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_05: You're gonna learn a lot.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_05: Uh very, very valuable two hours spent with him.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I encourage anyone.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_05: Now, I will tell you this: if you have any questions for Wendell, you cannot get to take a lesson from him, but there's some good questions you'd like to ask him.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_05: Please do not hesitate to reach out to us.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_05: Be more than happy to take your questions.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_05: Wendell will be more than happy to do a follow-up episode, and you know, we'll um we'll get those questions answered for you.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_05: That being said, don't hesitate to get a hold of us for any reason.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_05: If you have a show idea, questions, comments, concerns, please, please, please reach out to us.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_05: But get a chance, go down there, patronize Wendell and Big Red Oak.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_05: Speaking of patronizing, thank you very much to our sponsors: Kohler Arms, Fyoki USA, Ranger, Ranger Shooting Eyewear, Atlas Traps, Rhino Chokes, Gun and Trophy Insurance, Midway USA, Taconic Distilleries, Long Range, Score Chaser, Odo Pro LHA, Bear Pelt, Make A Break, and our technology partner, JTEC.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_05: These sponsors help us bring you great content like this week in and week out.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_05: Please patronize them.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_05: Their links are down in the show description.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_05: Get over to our new website, thedeadpair.com.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_05: There is some incredible stories in there from our sponsors.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_05: Click on the sponsors tab, go check them out.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm telling you, if you don't already use your use their products, you're doing yourself a disservice.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_05: Please check them out.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_05: Also, I wanted to let everyone know one last thing.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_05: The video to this podcast will be coming out the week before the national championship.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_05: So be on the lookout for that.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_05: Unfortunately, we had to fix some things with the audio.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_05: Then David will apply that to the video.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_05: So it's going to take a little bit of time.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I wish you could have had it out for the very first episode, but unfortunately, uh it'll take an extra minute.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_05: We're going to have a really cool show for you next week.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: And then the following week will be the video.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_05: And then the week after that, the week of the national championship, the last week, we will not have an episode.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_05: That is tradition for us.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_05: We do not do an episode that week because we're going to be on site getting you some more great content.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_05: You know, until then, if you can't make it to the nationals, go back, listen to your favorite episode over again.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, and like I said, patronize our sponsors, really appreciate them and all they do for us.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_05: Reminder also, the Dead Pearl Blast coming up in December.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_05: We're going to be giving away a beautiful$23,000 Kohler shotgun, and it can be yours for as little as$75 for a raffle ticket.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_05: So get over and get your tickets.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_05: Get signed up for that Dead Pearl Blast.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_05: We'd love to see you there.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_05: Come to the program.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_05: You know, um, we're trying to talk Wendell into being part of that program.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: So maybe that would be a good opportunity for you to take a lesson with him.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_05: Please come see us.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's at Rocky Creek, December 10th, 11th, and 12th in Richburg, South Carolina.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_05: Until then, please take someone new shooting, take them to a tournament, show them how great this sport is.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_05: We're only going to grow the sport from the inside out.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_05: So please do your part.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_05: Take someone new shooting.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_05: And until next week, we cannot wait to catch you all back here on the Dead Pear Podcast.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time on the Dead Pear Podcast.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: The Dead Pear Podcast is brought to you by Kohler Arms, America's competition shotgun, and is fueled by Fiyoki USA.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: The Dead Pear theme song was written, arranged, and produced by Toby Tomplett.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to the following sponsors: RE Ranger.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: See it further, see it faster with Ranger Performance Eyewear.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Atlas Track, America's finest play target equipment, gun and trophy insurance, protect your price possessions with the best insurance.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Rhino Chokes, the best jokes and bare reporting in the world, tectonic distillery.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: After the tournament, it's time for one more joke with Taconic Distillery.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Long range, the industry standard for trap release and target management.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Changing the future of youth shooting sports.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Odo Pro Technologies, the trusted source for hearing protection, Fairfelt.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just a vest, it's your new uniform called FA Energy, fueled for the fearless, and JTEC, the Deadpair Podcast Technology Partner.