Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / Boxing Podcast: Tyson Fury vs. Anthony Joshua in JEOPARDY

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Boxing Podcast: Tyson Fury vs. Anthony Joshua in JEOPARDY · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hey there, guys.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: It's Lukie.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm back with another podcast,
0:04
SPEAKER_00: and I'm joined with Craig Scott, someone that I've really enjoyed your work.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: So, Craig, thank you for entertaining me and coming on the podcast.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Maybe even plug yourself in the beginning, assuming people don't listen too long into this show.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no worries, Lukie, thanks for having me.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my name's Craig, so I'm a boxing writer based in Scotland.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: I've been working with,
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
0:23
SPEAKER_01: boxing media,
0:24
SPEAKER_01: writing for magazines and websites for a number of years,
0:26
SPEAKER_01: but most recently I've brought back a contentious,
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
0:32
SPEAKER_01: controversial blog that I write weekly called Contaminated Food for Thought.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: So you can find that on Substack,
0:38
SPEAKER_01: basically just,
0:39
SPEAKER_01: I guess, dissecting some of the goings-on in the sport that we both enjoy.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Persevere to love, I guess.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I guess what I enjoy about your writing is like it's fearless
0:51
SPEAKER_00: and I feel like you don't worry about getting sued at times
0:54
SPEAKER_00: or something like you just say things.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like we need people that are a little unhinged in boxing saying stuff
1:00
SPEAKER_00: because it at times just is very boring and it's very status quo and people saying
1:05
SPEAKER_00: the same stuff.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: So I guess what's made me enjoy your column lately is just it's unfiltered
1:10
SPEAKER_00: and it just is stuff, you know.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we live in a world where everybody's kind of towing the company line.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, the guys that are working for Ring Magazine is a prime example.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: A lot of good guys working there,
1:24
SPEAKER_01: but the work seems to have been really diluted recently, which is a shame.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think what gives me the freedom to be able to say what I want to say
1:31
SPEAKER_01: and write it how I want to write it is that I don't really rely on an income
1:35
SPEAKER_01: from boxing.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not my be-all and end-all.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: You know,
1:38
SPEAKER_01: I can go about my business and I think the legal thing is,
1:43
SPEAKER_01: it kind of hangs over you a little bit and I've had a couple recently
1:45
SPEAKER_01: where we've came a little bit close, but I guess it's just one of those things.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather ask for forgiveness and try something new or try and be a bit
1:55
SPEAKER_01: an independent voice instead of playing it safe all the time and writing
1:58
SPEAKER_01: the same sort of fight reports that everybody else is writing or covering
2:02
SPEAKER_01: the same stories that we're all covering.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And I try and do it in a funny way, I guess.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I try and inject a bit of satire, a bit of comedy into the work where possible.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Well,
2:11
SPEAKER_00: just to end your introduction is I find it enjoyable also because you mix humor
2:17
SPEAKER_00: into it with doing what you're doing.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Let's go into Anthony Joshua versus Tyson Fury.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I tried my best to do a sequence of events here for weeks on end.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: They were basically everyone knows this stuff,
2:29
SPEAKER_00: but we'll just pretend to set it up like we're a TV show or something.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: But we have weeks on end of he said, she said, will the fight be in the US, the UK?
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Now we get a poster.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Netflix is involved.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: But really, the story isn't Joshua Fury, at least to me.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know your perspective on the fight,
2:47
SPEAKER_00: but I think these two guys are both past their prime.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I think Joshua's really done.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I think Fury probably was just a better fighter overall throughout his career.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe in Joshua's prime, he could have done it.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: But for me, the story is now becoming Dana White and Eddie Hearn.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And the ego's attached with promoting this fight.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's really kind of a shame to me that the fighters are playing second fiddle
3:09
SPEAKER_00: to two rich, powerful people trying to show their influence in the sport.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was setting you up for the question and you disappeared.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, there you are.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts and how do you stage this conversation that kind of
3:20
SPEAKER_00: on Friday really became everything people were talking about in boxing?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: I think, I mean,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: initially my thoughts are it's,
3:29
SPEAKER_01: It's a bit long on the tooth, the whole situation now.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: I think people are getting very bored of the,
3:34
SPEAKER_01: it's on, it's not on, these are the reasons why it's not on.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: For me, my perspective is I totally agree with you, Lukie.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: I think both guys are past their prime.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's a really relevant fight in terms of the heavyweight landscape anymore.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: I think these are guys that will cash in.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: I guess it's still a momentous thing for British boxing
3:52
SPEAKER_01: that these two heavyweights are finally going to meet.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: The fact that it's in Cardiff,
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I think they fought tooth and nail to have it on British soil,
4:00
SPEAKER_01: but they're having it on British soil on American time.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: As far as I understand it,
4:04
SPEAKER_01: it's going to be a one in the morning,
4:06
SPEAKER_01: two in the morning job for us over here, which seems a bit unusual.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And then I think the promotional issues and the continual butting heads and sniping
4:15
SPEAKER_01: at each other in the media...
4:17
SPEAKER_01: It almost reminds me of the time when Puff Daddy was always accused of
4:21
SPEAKER_01: the producer dancing in the back of the videos when everybody thought,
4:24
SPEAKER_01: you know, it's not really about you.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like boxing is in a weird space at the moment where guys like Dana White,
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Eddie Hearn,
4:31
SPEAKER_01: even Ben Shalom over here,
4:33
SPEAKER_01: people like that,
4:33
SPEAKER_01: they have this position of public interest now where I'll see people
4:38
SPEAKER_01: on social media almost defending and supporting and publicly backing promoters.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: When did we start...
4:45
SPEAKER_01: When did we start really caring about what the promoters were saying to each other
4:49
SPEAKER_01: or how that was going?
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I think it's very strange.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Apparently there's a spanner in the works with the December 11th date
4:56
SPEAKER_01: or that's what was reported from Mike Coppinger only hours after it was announced.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, is that Mike doing his own work or is that Mike doing the work of his boss?
5:06
SPEAKER_01: It's always hard to say these days, unfortunately, but I don't really care.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't care about Dana White.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't care about Eddie Hearn.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why we do care.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: And I just think it's very strange that a fight of that magnitude seems to have
5:19
SPEAKER_01: so many loopholes and so many issues with contracts.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Everybody is claiming there's an issue with each version of a contract that they've got.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: It seems crazy to me that a fight of that size hasn't been tied up and
5:31
SPEAKER_01: the contracts haven't been cemented for each fighter.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know your thoughts, mate.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, I just wanted to say something else,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: and now I'm going to take us in another direction probably.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: We're getting to a scary point in boxing where if this is a super fight,
5:44
SPEAKER_00: how many old dudes can we trot out to make super fights?
5:47
SPEAKER_00: These guys are close to 40.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Realistically, who else do we have?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: We can bring Terrence Crawford back from retirement.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Usyk can do one.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: But I think also the scary thing to me on top of what you bring up is Where are
6:02
SPEAKER_00: the young guys to make fights like this to bring enthusiasm?
6:06
SPEAKER_00: It's two older guys who,
6:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
6:09
SPEAKER_00: hardcore fight guys that look grizzled on a chat on YouTube are saying we're not
6:14
SPEAKER_00: that interested and we love boxing.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: We're waking up to talk boxing from across the world about boxing.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: We love boxing.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: And That kind of also scares me is a fight
6:24
SPEAKER_00: that like most hardcore fans probably are indifferent
6:27
SPEAKER_00: about is having trouble getting made.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: So what is Virgil Ortiz Boots Ennis look like in the modern landscape?
6:31
SPEAKER_00: What do fights that we want to see?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: How did those negotiations go if this one's so difficult?
6:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you look at the next generation of pound for pound stars
6:43
SPEAKER_01: that 20 years ago would have been your your pay-per-view headliners.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: They don't have the same profile.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's a reflection of boxing in the wider landscape of sport.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: But a guy like Jesse Bam Rodriguez,
6:56
SPEAKER_01: who is undoubtedly one of the best fighters on the planet, I mean,
7:01
SPEAKER_01: would people get thrilled on a kind of huge scale if he fought somebody in
7:06
SPEAKER_01: a pay-per-view fight?
7:07
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know if the profile doesn't seem to be the same with these guys coming up.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know when that stopped or when that took a dip.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: You know,
7:17
SPEAKER_01: even your guys like Ryan Garcia and Virgil Ortiz,
7:21
SPEAKER_01: even Bootsy Ennis, as you mentioned, great fighters.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: If you ask the random man in the street to identify Ryan Garcia,
7:29
SPEAKER_01: they'd probably think he was an actor from Euphoria or some American TV show.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they'd immediately know that he's Ryan Garcia, a boxing world champion.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Whereas 10 years, 15 years ago, I'm sure a lot of people would have known who Canelo was.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people would have known who Deontay Wilder was.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Seems to be a bit of a drop-off in terms of an appeal to the wider market.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is, to your point, we keep bringing these old guys back out.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: We keep bringing guys back from retirement.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at Crawford.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Usyk's on the way out.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Fury and Joshua are old guys.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: When does that stop?
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And that's happening all throughout different levels of boxing.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, James DeGale,
8:04
SPEAKER_01: former world champion,
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Olympic gold medalist, he came back last night in a bit of a nonsense boxing fight.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: Why are we bringing him back?
8:12
SPEAKER_01: It just seems a bit strange.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: We're clinging on to the guys that have left the sport,
8:16
SPEAKER_01: but we don't seem to be really building and bolstering the profile of the guys
8:20
SPEAKER_01: that are coming through the sport in their prime.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you agree with that, or maybe I'm being cynical, but
8:26
SPEAKER_00: it is a weird time.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: I want to add to it.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to drop 25 cents in this video game system,
8:33
SPEAKER_00: and I want to add my thoughts that I was in a casino for Devin Haney's fight
8:41
SPEAKER_00: against Juan Carlos Burgos when I read the news that HBO was leaving boxing.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: It was 2018.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: It was a showbox card.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: It's one of those rare moments.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not me trying to propel myself up.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like I was in a room and I remember what exactly I was doing.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I was around Devin, etc.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And since that time,
8:58
SPEAKER_00: I tried to make a list of fighters,
8:59
SPEAKER_00: young fighters who could be stars in the sport of boxing,
9:02
SPEAKER_00: who have some excitement and enthusiasm in America.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Because I have to kind of keep it American because I don't have a global perspective.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: I reach out to you.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: I read British things.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: But I really lean on my British dudes and my Australian dudes to give me
9:14
SPEAKER_00: a global perspective because I got blind spots.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And as you get older,
9:18
SPEAKER_00: I think the mature thing to do is you look at people you respect and trust
9:22
SPEAKER_00: and you just go off of their opinions.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: So I say all that to say,
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Abdullah Mason,
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Bruce Carrington,
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Rafael Espinoza,
9:28
SPEAKER_00: and Keyshawn Davis are the fighters I've circled that possibly could become stars
9:33
SPEAKER_00: since HBO left.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: But even then, I don't fully feel comfortable people are aware of them on a global stage.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: And I have to wonder,
9:41
SPEAKER_00: is it simply that boxing is no longer on network TV or is boxing figuring out how
9:46
SPEAKER_00: to be relevant without network TV is my question I propose to you.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: I think since the,
9:54
SPEAKER_01: since the inception of DAZN and these streaming platforms coming into boxing
9:58
SPEAKER_01: and HBO vacating the sport as well,
10:01
SPEAKER_01: it feels like a bit of a transitional period where they are trying
10:04
SPEAKER_01: to figure stuff out.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: They're constantly trying to figure out the best way to promote a show,
10:09
SPEAKER_01: figure out the best way to drum up some interest.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Is it, you know,
10:12
SPEAKER_01: is it boxing,
10:14
SPEAKER_01: is it boxing podcasts that are linked to the channel that then bring fighters on,
10:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:18
SPEAKER_01: I know Ring have got their own podcast,
10:20
SPEAKER_01: they do stuff, like,
10:22
SPEAKER_01: It just feels like they're having to now try and operate in their own sphere
10:26
SPEAKER_01: as opposed to relying on these massive broadcasters.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And we have it, you have HBO in the States, Lukie, we have it here in the UK as well.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had Sky Sports were the home of boxing for many years.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And if fighters were headlining shows on Sky Sports,
10:40
SPEAKER_01: they were almost household names by default.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Guys like Anthony Joshua and stuff, they were on Sky Sports Box Office.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: That's how they came up.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Fury beat Klitschko at Sky Sports Box Office.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Now we don't have that.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, Sky Sports now, the cards are the Zufa cards.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: We've had years where the cards were Boxer cards,
10:59
SPEAKER_01: which is a promoter fronted by Ben Shalom,
11:01
SPEAKER_01: which just doesn't have, it just doesn't have star power.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have the same pool.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: That's no harm to any of the guys involved.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: But it's not a matchroom stable.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: It's not a matchroom card with all the fireworks and the 80,000 people in a venue.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think we've lost that.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Sort of support that these major network channels would have given boxing
11:21
SPEAKER_01: and would have given the top fighters, we've had that pulled away from us.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: And now Sky Sports here,
11:26
SPEAKER_01: which is a huge vehicle for sport in the UK,
11:29
SPEAKER_01: they're getting whatever is left, is the honest truth.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: They're picking up what's left.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: If it's a Zufa card,
11:36
SPEAKER_01: if it's a Boxer card,
11:37
SPEAKER_01: although I think Boxer now are even on DAZN, that's what they're picking up.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: And last night you had Johnny Fisher headlining a show for Zufa on Sky Sports.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to be on the side of a bus.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to be on a billboard,
11:50
SPEAKER_01: you know, where I live up in Scotland because he's on Sky Sports.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Those days have gone, and I think it impacts the profile of the fighters as well.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, add to me the context to that because I watched the Zufa card last night, Johnny Fisher.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: I'll be perfectly honest.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: It just did not look like main event boxing.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: We know Fisher's limited, but watching Michael Prieta versus Johnny Fisher, how do I say this?
12:14
SPEAKER_00: You want boxing to lead with talent and it feels like you're leading almost
12:18
SPEAKER_00: with personality over talent.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's just hard to watch a fight like that and say everything builds to kind of
12:26
SPEAKER_00: a mid-level at best heavyweight fight.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious to get the impression that you've seen both contextualize that fight
12:34
SPEAKER_00: and Zufa going to the UK multiple times.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: For me, I think.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: And we saw it,
12:41
SPEAKER_01: I think,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: when Eddie Hearn went to DAZN and other people sort of took his place,
12:45
SPEAKER_01: whether it was Boxer or now whether it's Zufa,
12:49
SPEAKER_01: it seems like these other promoters,
12:50
SPEAKER_01: these sort of promoters on the outskirts of Eddie and Frank Warren,
12:54
SPEAKER_01: they try and sweep up whatever talent is left
12:57
SPEAKER_01: or they sweep up whatever talent they believe to be successful from Eddie's stable
13:01
SPEAKER_01: who are out of contract and maybe not flavour of the month.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: We saw it when Boxer went to Sky Sports initially to take over from Matchroom.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Boxers spent a lot of money signing Joshua Boazzi and Laurence Okoli,
13:14
SPEAKER_01: two Olympic medalists who had been Eddie Hearn guys
13:17
SPEAKER_01: since they'd turned professional.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: They weren't stars,
13:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
13:21
SPEAKER_01: they're not stars,
13:22
SPEAKER_01: they're not, You know, UK-wide known names, never mind global names.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think in the sport of boxing,
13:30
SPEAKER_01: neither have really set the world alight in any of their professional bouts over
13:34
SPEAKER_01: a number of years.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: But because they were matchroom guys,
13:37
SPEAKER_01: boxers scrambled to sign them,
13:40
SPEAKER_01: most likely paid over the odds to sign them, and they underwhelmed.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Almost every time they fought, they underwhelmed.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: And then again,
13:47
SPEAKER_01: that just dents their profile,
13:48
SPEAKER_01: it dents the promoter's reputation on this new channel.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And you start to see them getting a little bit shaky.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is with Zufa now as well.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: I remember when Zufa announced their first sort of tranche of signings.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: It was like a seven or eight page post on Instagram with these names.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: A lot of these names you might be more familiar with from your part of the world, Lukie.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: But to me, in terms of boxing importance, there wasn't a lot of guys on there.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, it was Jai Opatia.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: It was Conor Benn.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: This, I think, was before Shakur had signed.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
14:22
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't really much to go on,
14:23
SPEAKER_01: and it almost seemed as though they were using this,
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I call it like an Uber mentality,
14:28
SPEAKER_01: like the taxi firm,
14:30
SPEAKER_01: where you come in and you take over as much as you can,
14:32
SPEAKER_01: then you own most of it,
14:34
SPEAKER_01: sweep up everything that becomes free and available,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: and then when you control the market,
14:38
SPEAKER_01: you can then start to decide what you do with it.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: And it feels like they're trying to do that a little bit,
14:42
SPEAKER_01: where they come in and they take as much as they can,
14:44
SPEAKER_01: how many free fighters can we get,
14:46
SPEAKER_01: how many guys coming off of deals,
14:47
SPEAKER_01: how many guys with some credentials,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Take them all,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: take them all,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: sign them all,
14:52
SPEAKER_01: and then we'll decide how we match them,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: how we kind of chart their trajectory through the sport.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: And that means there's a lot of guys there that need fights who probably aren't
15:00
SPEAKER_01: the best to watch.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: I think Johnny Fisher last night, he was with Matchroom for a few years.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: He had a good following, he sold a lot of tickets.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Limited, but had a lot of heart.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: He scrambled to sign Johnny Fisher, and I think he struggled to sell tickets last night.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And he was in a pretty poor fight with a mid-level, at best, heavyweight.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: And I like Michael.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: I spoke to Michael a few times and interviewed him years and years ago.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: He's a nice guy.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: He's not the guy.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to get there.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting to see how they're going about it.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a weird first fight.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I guess full transparency,
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I kind of grew up watching the top-rank developmental system kind of
15:42
SPEAKER_00: in my development as a boxing guy.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: So typically like you'd see a new signing and then they'd be in a favorable matchup
15:50
SPEAKER_00: and you'd be like, Whoa, this guy's really good.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Or there'd be certain rhyme or reason to me, this was almost like feeding a guy to the lions.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: You had a crafty boxer who I think the advantage
16:00
SPEAKER_00: that Fisher had was he wasn't really a puncher,
16:03
SPEAKER_00: but I mean, Fisher was gassed out by the ninth round.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I really don't like the idea of comparing him dropping his head to Jack Dempsey,
16:11
SPEAKER_00: but that's kind of standard for these telecasts is like name
16:13
SPEAKER_00: a really famous fighter.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And if you have a slight trait to them,
16:17
SPEAKER_00: we're going to say you it resembles that, which is I think.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that this is just my monologue and I'll shut up in
16:24
SPEAKER_00: a second is it seems like these broadcasts aren't made for us.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: They're not made for hardcore fight fans.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: They're made for a casual person stumbling across boxing to hear some big names
16:33
SPEAKER_00: that they were very excited about in the past.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And that will offer enthusiasm to the future.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Hot Rod is a new development that I enjoyed on this telecast.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Craig Richards, I think, is more web than Spider at this point.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: But it was a lot of it was a lot of.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Dudes like Cesar Mateo Tapia, loved him on a Tim Zhu undercard.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Leo Ruiz, I watched him on a Miura Boxing get knocked out one round.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a good fight,
16:56
SPEAKER_00: but I guess the problem I'm having with Zufa,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: if I don't have a familiarity with fighters, is what's the pathway?
17:05
SPEAKER_00: What's the consequence to the fight?
17:07
SPEAKER_00: It just looks like decent fights,
17:09
SPEAKER_00: but it almost feels like a national boxing tournament that's pro rather than a fight
17:13
SPEAKER_00: of consequence building to something that I really want to structure my life around.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I wonder,
17:21
SPEAKER_01: do you think the reason for that kind of ties into their whole,
17:25
SPEAKER_01: we want to become our own independent governing body thing,
17:28
SPEAKER_01: as opposed to following the traditional governing bodies?
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Because to me,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: by doing that and by not following a sort of pathway or a traditional route
17:37
SPEAKER_01: to building these guys,
17:38
SPEAKER_01: They almost create their own playground where it's only their fighters
17:41
SPEAKER_01: and they're doing what they want.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: And the UFC model is very much everybody fights everybody at some point,
17:46
SPEAKER_01: everybody loses at some point,
17:48
SPEAKER_01: but it's exciting and people will come back and watch it again.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: And I can see a little bit of that,
17:53
SPEAKER_01: you know,
17:53
SPEAKER_01: early on where it's like,
17:55
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't matter if a guy ranks seventh beats a guy ranked fifth,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: you might not fight a guy ranked third next,
18:01
SPEAKER_01: you might fight somebody completely random because that's what we're dealing with
18:05
SPEAKER_01: and that's what we want to do.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's them...
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Creating their own ecosystem and just,
18:12
SPEAKER_01: I guess, just trying to get the attention of the casual fan.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely spot on in terms of the broadcast.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Every time I hear a reference,
18:21
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:21
SPEAKER_01: the Fisher-Dempsey reference,
18:23
SPEAKER_01: they're hoping that a casual fan has heard of Jack Dempsey and immediately will go,
18:28
SPEAKER_01: well, this guy must be good if he's being compared to Jack Dempsey.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is lazy for me.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: I think it's...
18:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a bit insulting to people who know what they're watching
18:36
SPEAKER_01: or know what they're talking about,
18:38
SPEAKER_01: but it does seem to be a kind of growing thing as well.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: I think boxing commentators, by and large, just love a soundbite.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely love a soundbite.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: As dramatic as you can make it,
18:51
SPEAKER_01: the comparisons and stuff,
18:53
SPEAKER_01: they're often quite ridiculous and you listen to them back and think,
18:56
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make any sense at all.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: But if I'm tuning in and I know who Manny Pacquiao is and you've compared some guy
19:01
SPEAKER_01: from South East London to Manny Pacquiao because he threw a good left hook,
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I might go, oh, okay, cool, I'll pay attention or this guy must be good.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: It's, I don't know, it's low hanging fruit, I think.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know what you think about the Zufa,
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I guess the Zufa plan to sort of be this unifying boxing governing body.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that has any legs?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not as concerned, like,
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, like,
19:27
SPEAKER_00: even with AI,
19:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not as scared of AI taking over the world,
19:30
SPEAKER_00: so I'm not,
19:31
SPEAKER_00: like, a long-term thinker with this one because, like, there's a lot of things.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: This is my thing with Zufa.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: I enjoy it if they were focusing more regionally,
19:40
SPEAKER_00: and they are,
19:40
SPEAKER_00: sort of,
19:41
SPEAKER_00: but I like the idea of,
19:42
SPEAKER_00: like, a UK promotion that can give my guy Alex the Villain McMillan a fight.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a revelation where I like the villain, you know?
19:50
SPEAKER_00: I want to see him fighting every two or three months, you know?
19:54
SPEAKER_00: There's young guys in America that I want to see get fights,
19:57
SPEAKER_00: but it just feels like they're figuring out a direction,
20:01
SPEAKER_00: like all startup companies and all businesses or all boxing promotions.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: And they're coming in so big and loud to a certain degree that they're not able
20:11
SPEAKER_00: to figure things out silently.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: So every single thing that they figure out is on a big stage.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And I guess as someone that like,
20:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:19
SPEAKER_00: boxing, this happens to coincide with promoters throwing fewer and fewer shows.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: So there's less shows, less excitement for me.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm a hardcore enthusiast in a second.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about the Japan car.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's hard for me to be like, eh.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I don't really see excitement for these.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Where does my guy Leo Ruiz?
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I know he's a Robert Garcia fighter, but where does he fit in?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: What's the next fight?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: When you feel like he's going to win in the seventh round,
20:46
SPEAKER_00: it's hard for my mind not to wander and think about a book I should read
20:49
SPEAKER_00: or something.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: And it seems like it's hard for Zufa,
20:53
SPEAKER_00: for whatever reason,
20:54
SPEAKER_00: to hold my interest because I can't really figure out where the direction is.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that speaks to the ecosystem and whatever,
21:03
SPEAKER_00: but I also think it speaks to the It's so new,
21:06
SPEAKER_00: but it's so bold in what they want to do.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think only time will tell.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: I think the thing that surprises me when I see it and I see them,
21:17
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
21:17
SPEAKER_01: sort of learn from their mistakes or learn on the job,
21:20
SPEAKER_01: if you like,
21:22
SPEAKER_01: is because they've come in kicking and screaming and making such a big deal of
21:25
SPEAKER_01: who they are and what they're going to do and the names involved in it,
21:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
21:29
SPEAKER_01: promotionally and financially, you know, Turkey and Dana is this little double act.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Weird, I've never seen Turkey hold Dana's hand yet.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: We have to wait for that.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: He loved holding Eddie's hand and Frank's hand, but maybe he'll hold Dana's hand one day.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where it goes.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting for me.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if stepping away from the governing bodies is actually viable.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's a thing that will happen.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: But I guess as long as there's some exciting fights.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: They announced Chris Billum-Smith versus Shevon Clarke,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: which is a good fight domestically in the UK.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: That should hopefully be an interesting main event,
22:06
SPEAKER_01: but I think they should, yeah,
22:08
SPEAKER_01: I think they should probably be planning a little bit more strategically
22:10
SPEAKER_01: to your point as well.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, like, Shev and Boatsy train near my house.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: I think they're still training with Virgil Hunter.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: And in the U.S., like, there's no audience for them.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: So they're training in America.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And, like, I think I'm probably the only writer that might be curious to go see them.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: And that also seems like something like,
22:32
SPEAKER_00: why not just be like,
22:33
SPEAKER_00: hey, Shev, we're going to send like, I don't know, just like there's tons.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a big media market and it feels maybe they're doing that for this fight.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: But I've always felt like Shev and Boatze are kind of hidden gems to America
22:46
SPEAKER_00: that get these high profile opportunities.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And in America, they're just afterthoughts.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think I think that's true as well.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: And I think you always get that where if there is that crossover already,
22:57
SPEAKER_01: if there's a natural crossover,
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Where they're training in America,
23:01
SPEAKER_01: they've got some sort of American appeal because of that and they've got a story
23:04
SPEAKER_01: to tell from their time there.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Why would you not want to try and bring people into that story from your side of
23:10
SPEAKER_01: the world if they're going to be fighting on my side of the world?
23:15
SPEAKER_01: You could almost kind of bounce one off the other and kind of hopefully,
23:20
SPEAKER_01: I guess, strengthen the amount of people that want to watch them fight.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: But to your point,
23:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing over there not a lot of people would be Interested or aware of
23:29
SPEAKER_01: who Shevon Clark is because he is I mean,
23:31
SPEAKER_01: he's still making his way, I guess, towards world level.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's not an immediate jump off the page.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It's exciting fight.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that also like I'm a sick sick man and I watch British boxing and there's
23:45
SPEAKER_00: a lot of American fans that are like the world just rolls around America
23:49
SPEAKER_00: and they don't they don't do it, to be perfectly honest.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to do a piece on Boatze because Boatze said one
23:59
SPEAKER_00: of his favorite fighters or biggest inspirations is Joe Frazier.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And when you watch Boatze, there's nothing about his style that screams Joe Frazier to me.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And I always just feel like opposites attract.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's so interesting that like you got this guy Boatze.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Who I've always had a deep connection to because I watched him in the 2016 Olympics
24:18
SPEAKER_00: and I remember the chat was going crazy.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: That was the first stream Olympics and people were like, Watsi, Watsi.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And then like his career just has moved very slow,
24:27
SPEAKER_00: but I never would be like, oh yeah, Joe Frazier there.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And that's always been an interesting one to me.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I think he's, he's always been super talented, hasn't he?
24:36
SPEAKER_01: I think he's a very slick boxer, but I'm the same as you.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: I remember during the Olympics and I think Mayweather was in attendance
24:42
SPEAKER_01: and Mayweather was kind of bigging up Boatze
24:44
SPEAKER_01: and there was all this hype surrounding him.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you,
24:47
SPEAKER_01: I get this quite a lot when I look back at guys who have fought in the Olympics,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: who have then turned pro,
24:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm always astounded by how much time has passed in relation to where they are
24:57
SPEAKER_01: within their career.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I feel the same about Ben Whittaker over here as well.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: I look at the Olympics he was in versus where he is now and six years have passed
25:06
SPEAKER_01: and we're still talking about, you know, he's knocking out guys that are hopeless.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: You know,
25:09
SPEAKER_01: should never be in the ring with him when he's dancing around the ring and slipping
25:12
SPEAKER_01: and sliding.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: But you didn't come out the last Olympics.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: You came out the Olympics a good few years ago now and still nothing really is going on.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a perfect transition.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: So I love the fact that you're just setting me up.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: You're teeing me up like I'm going to play golf in a little bit and you're teeing me up.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Ben Whitaker.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Fights this weekend, Connor Wallace, it's happening.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: It's a fight.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
25:33
SPEAKER_00: I think Whitaker was,
25:35
SPEAKER_00: at least to me on my bingo card, was someone that could fill in for Joshua.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: A big personality,
25:40
SPEAKER_00: probably a contentious voice to possibly British fans because he's not Ricky Hatton,
25:45
SPEAKER_00: which we'll probably get into in a second.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: He's not the everyman.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: He's the flashy.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: He does the rapper thing, the finger guns, the poses, the I'm going to make fun of my opponent.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to be humble.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And yet...
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I think there's intrigue after the Liam Cameron fight
26:00
SPEAKER_00: because he showed some mental vulnerabilities.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think that at least for me watching is he has all the talent.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: I loved him as an amateur.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: I loved the Olympics when he beat Iman Kitaf.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Kitaf was my dude, sleeping guys in the Olympics.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: I love that performance.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: I feel like he lost the finals because he sat in the ring after it.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I even took notes on that.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: He sat on the rope like he had won the gold medal.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: It was such an accomplishment for him.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: But I have to ask you not just about the development,
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Are there serious questions about his mental toughness after the Liam Cameron fight?
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you start to question whether he'd check out if the fight is grueling?
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Or do you think he's a special talent that can carry the sport as
26:36
SPEAKER_00: a charismatic figure for a new British boxing?
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I think it's interesting, isn't it?
26:42
SPEAKER_01: When you see these guys that are really highly rated coming out of the Olympics,
26:46
SPEAKER_01: the ones that tend to go on and be figureheads for the sport tend to do it within
26:51
SPEAKER_01: the first two or three years.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And you're immediately drawn to their progress.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: You immediately believe the hype.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: We haven't really got that with Ben Whittaker.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: There will be 30% of the viewing box in public who will be convinced he's the next big thing.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: And you'll have 60%,
27:08
SPEAKER_01: 70% who are unconvinced and who think,
27:12
SPEAKER_01: based on the lean camera,
27:12
SPEAKER_01: in fact,
27:13
SPEAKER_01: to your point,
27:14
SPEAKER_01: when he comes up against someone who is willing to throw back and
27:17
SPEAKER_01: who has got enough ability to stand and take all of that nonsense that he does in
27:21
SPEAKER_01: the ring, Where does he go from there?
27:24
SPEAKER_01: And I think we have to remember his age as well.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: He's nearly 30, which, listen, he's not an old man.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: He's a lot younger than you and I.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like he's not got long.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: He's not got long to make an impact.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: If he wants to unify,
27:38
SPEAKER_01: if he wants to move up,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: if he wants to become the star of British boxing, he's not mid-20s.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: And I think these opportunities will start to come thick and fast.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: He'll beat Conor Wallace.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: For me, that's not really a...
27:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not really a significant fight.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: No disrespect to Conor Wallace, but he should be walking over a guy like Conor Wallace.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: But does he go on and fight, you know, the world champions?
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Does he go on and beat guys that are at the top of the tree?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: I think he's probably benefiting from a bit of a transitional period,
28:06
SPEAKER_01: a light heavyweight at the moment.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Paterbiev's not fought in a while.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Boazze and Hutchison could potentially be fighting for a vacant title.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, does he beat a Bivol?
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I couldn't see that personally,
28:19
SPEAKER_01: but He could pick up a title or two if they become vacant,
28:24
SPEAKER_01: he could beat one of the guys in the top 10,
28:26
SPEAKER_01: but I'm not sold on it and I haven't been sold on it.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: I was after the Olympics, I thought it could be exciting.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it stopped,
28:34
SPEAKER_01: it started,
28:36
SPEAKER_01: the Cameron stuff was a real dent for his ego as well as his reputation as a fighter
28:41
SPEAKER_01: and I think he's a very ego-driven fighter.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: He reminds me of Prince Naz in that way,
28:45
SPEAKER_01: where as soon as you take a loss or as soon as you stumble,
28:48
SPEAKER_01: You start to ask yourself questions and you start to maybe doubt yourself
28:51
SPEAKER_01: a little bit.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And it'll be interesting to see how he deals with that as he kind of faces tougher opposition.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: So for the Lukie handbook of boxing,
28:59
SPEAKER_00: you never want a boxer who's too interesting is kind of a rule for me.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Like it seems like all the great boxers don't really have interests outside
29:07
SPEAKER_00: of boxing or they don't have like, like their interests are fishing.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I go for walks.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
29:13
SPEAKER_00: I've always been interested in His big personality and he obviously has ability,
29:19
SPEAKER_00: but I'm scared because it's like he's into fashion and he's into music
29:23
SPEAKER_00: and he has all these different interests.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And it always seems like guys like that can never stay focused on boxing
29:29
SPEAKER_00: because they're kind of too into everything.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Connor Wallace, obviously there's not much to get into.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel like if Whitaker has it, he probably wins this fight.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: But I think the more fascinating conversation is light heavyweights been a dreadful division.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: It's typically top heavy.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Over the past four or five years, it's really been the Bivol and Better Eve show.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: He has maybe a chance to be the face for a bit.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: But it's like when guys go to this division or picking up Steve,
29:56
SPEAKER_00: I also think that Whitaker,
29:58
SPEAKER_00: let me just ramble more and more, is the perfect guy to get upset.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Like he's a guy that's gonna have an off night.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's where my concerns are like,
30:07
SPEAKER_00: If he has an off night,
30:09
SPEAKER_00: can he mentally right the ship or does he just doubt himself and does it go weird?
30:13
SPEAKER_00: And then like you said, ego driven fighter, does that derail everything?
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Like if he gets upset,
30:18
SPEAKER_00: is he like hiding from the media and no longer doing the dances
30:23
SPEAKER_00: and talking cryptically at press conferences about how he's going to dark places?
30:28
SPEAKER_00: And you're just like, wait, you're completely chained.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Like losing is natural in fighting.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: And I like how someone says Whitaker has zero charisma.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: It's all a front.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know how you feel about this,
30:39
SPEAKER_00: but I almost feel like what makes him dangerous is he gets in the ring.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: And maybe this is not right for me to say,
30:45
SPEAKER_00: but it's like there's a level of nervous energy he has.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: And part of the showboating is like he really doesn't want to get hit.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to get pressure.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: So he's trying to make you feel so humiliated and embarrassing.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: You stay away.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And I just can't help but wonder if part of the way he fights is nervous energy
31:02
SPEAKER_00: for someone walking him down.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if – I feel like I saw something mentioned
31:09
SPEAKER_01: where he's maybe neurodiverse in a way.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember exactly what it was.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: Maybe he's,
31:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say ADHD if that's not the correct term,
31:16
SPEAKER_01: but I think I agree with you.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of that and there's a lot of,
31:21
SPEAKER_01: for me, he seems like a guy who is desperate to impress everybody.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: He's desperate to make an impression.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: He almost comes across as a kind of extroverted people pleaser,
31:31
SPEAKER_01: but probably because he's a little bit unsure of how people will take him
31:34
SPEAKER_01: if he's not like that, if he's not that character.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think if you strip that all back and you take it away,
31:40
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:40
SPEAKER_01: if he loses and his persona changes and that energy and that excitement and
31:44
SPEAKER_01: that dancing and mocking the opponent disappears,
31:47
SPEAKER_01: I think there'll be a serious worry from him and his team as
31:51
SPEAKER_01: to how interested people would still be without all of that.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: You know,
31:54
SPEAKER_01: if you strip all of that back and he becomes
31:56
SPEAKER_01: a standard focused professional light heavyweight who just boxes 12 rounds
32:00
SPEAKER_01: and doesn't mess about, does he sell as many tickets?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Is he as exciting?
32:06
SPEAKER_01: Does he gain as many column inches or is he just another Willie Hutchison,
32:10
SPEAKER_01: another Boatsy,
32:11
SPEAKER_01: another Craig Richards,
32:12
SPEAKER_01: these guys that just,
32:14
SPEAKER_01: they're good,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: but there's nothing really that sort of throws them up to that next level of fighter
32:21
SPEAKER_01: in terms of public interest or world, I guess, exposure on a worldwide scale.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm trying to say.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, here's my thing, and I swear we'll get off this topic, is that...
32:34
SPEAKER_00: There's a level,
32:35
SPEAKER_00: and maybe this is the wrong word to use,
32:36
SPEAKER_00: but there's a level of fear if he got in with Artur Betterbeev in his prime.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Like a guy like him,
32:43
SPEAKER_00: I would genuinely be concerned about it because it's like Betterbeev,
32:46
SPEAKER_00: all the things you say,
32:47
SPEAKER_00: he's like a misfit,
32:50
SPEAKER_00: outsider,
32:50
SPEAKER_00: doesn't care how people think,
32:52
SPEAKER_00: wants to impose his will, wants to be the best fighter.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And I can't help but think if he runs into a guy like that,
33:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have a little bit of nervous energy seeing it.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: And I can't think of many boxers where like I don't really want to see him fight
33:08
SPEAKER_00: that guy because I don't think it's going to be humbling.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: It's a personality clash that could derail someone deeply.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also an interesting thing
33:18
SPEAKER_00: about his story is typically that's like Floyd Mayweather.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: You want to see a guy lose.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: But with him, it's like I don't want to see it because I think I know the answer.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's different when someone has already reached that height.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
33:33
SPEAKER_01: when you look at Floyd and Floyd's arrogance and,
33:36
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:36
SPEAKER_01: how people did pay to watch,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Floyd lose or they hoped that he would lose, he'd already scaled the heights.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: He'd already won everything.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: He'd already established himself as the best and the flashiest.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And so seeing him lose at that point wouldn't have been as impactful to your point.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, Floyd would have had to lick his wounds,
33:54
SPEAKER_01: it would have obviously ruined his image a little bit,
33:56
SPEAKER_01: but he'd already have achieved a lot and put his stamp on boxing as a sport.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: You know,
33:59
SPEAKER_01: if you put a guy like Whitaker in with Piterbiev or Bivol in the next two
34:03
SPEAKER_01: or three fights,
34:05
SPEAKER_01: I think there is a serious chance it would sort of derail the rest of his career
34:08
SPEAKER_01: because he hasn't got there yet.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: And on the way up,
34:11
SPEAKER_01: unless you've made it to the top,
34:12
SPEAKER_01: unless you've got the titles and people are clamoring to watch you fight,
34:17
SPEAKER_01: if you get knocked off your perch at that stage,
34:20
SPEAKER_01: You're almost always like a nearly man.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: If you believe in,
34:23
SPEAKER_01: if you believe your own,
34:25
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
34:26
SPEAKER_01: vulnerabilities,
34:27
SPEAKER_01: you start to ask yourself serious questions and you never quite get there.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's, it's a different stage if that was to happen to him.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think, I think it's entirely possible it could happen to him.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I want to jump to this Japanese boxing card.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how much you caught of it,
34:42
SPEAKER_00: but obviously Takuma Inoue, the younger brother of the monster Nao Inoue gets, um,
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Gets a rematch win over Tension.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously we had undercard Sam Goodman wins.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: And then kind of the shocker, my guy Malajika of South Africa beats Suboy.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many people.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: I saw that one coming.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: I kind of jumped on the bus on that one.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I'll say I'm kind of like a trendy nerd boy.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: I just assumed because the guy was three fights in or four fights in,
35:12
SPEAKER_00: he beat an older version of Carlos Cuadros.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, they're going to match him favorably.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: And then you get this outcome and you go,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: oh, man, I should have actually probably done a little more research.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: But I'm kind of curious to get your thoughts on this card,
35:24
SPEAKER_00: which is probably the most interesting boxing card.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Sadly, it's probably the one that's going to go the most unnoticed
35:32
SPEAKER_00: because it's not really distributed widely and talked about.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
35:37
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm probably just going to feed into that last point there
35:40
SPEAKER_01: and say I haven't watched any of the fights.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: I caught the results.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: I obviously know the initial fight between Tenshin and Inoue Jr. or Inoue Sr.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he's the older or the younger brother.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think good to see Tenshin.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Tension, I remember him when he fought Mayweather in that weird exhibition, didn't he?
36:02
SPEAKER_01: And he started quite heavy against Mayweather in the exhibition
36:05
SPEAKER_01: and Mayweather just hunched him about for a couple of rounds.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's nice to see him actually take boxing seriously.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I think he's a good level, but I know he's just too clever by the sounds of things.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And then Suboy, I think, did he only have three fights?
36:19
SPEAKER_00: This is his fourth professional battle?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: There was a no contest in there.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's technically his fifth fight,
36:25
SPEAKER_00: but it was his third fight because there was one no contest.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: So again, Risky, you know, we've seen that before.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Guys that are kind of stepping in really, really early on in their professional career.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: And a guy like Malajika, I guess he's a little bit of a wild card.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, you look at the record, the record looks okay.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: But down at that weight as well, you know, anything can happen.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: And these guys from South Africa at the moment, They're turning it on.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: They've had a lot of good nights.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: You had Cafu a couple of years ago who upset everybody and won a world title.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Malajika wins one as well.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: I know Colin Nathan, a guy I speak to quite a lot and manages a lot of these South African guys.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: They're taking the sport really seriously and they're coming to upset the odds.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: They're not coming to just play a part.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: So good to see him win.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen the fights, Lukie, so I couldn't add much more than that.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I also want to say shout out Colin Nathan because I think he's one of
37:15
SPEAKER_00: the better boxing trainers and he doesn't get mentioned because all
37:18
SPEAKER_00: of his fights are fighters are mostly between 108 to 115 pounds.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't diminish what he does as a coach.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: I just think that a lot of people just aren't aware of the job he does.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
37:29
SPEAKER_00: for Takuma,
37:30
SPEAKER_00: it's I think that he's becoming one of the most improved boxers in the sport
37:35
SPEAKER_00: of boxing.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: But it's just going unnoticed because his older brother is the monster in a way,
37:40
SPEAKER_00: who's one of the most important figures of the last 10 years.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: I wrote a story on the big fight about how Japanese boxing might be fading just
37:47
SPEAKER_00: because part of it,
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I won't go into the whole story because,
37:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:50
SPEAKER_00: you should obviously subscribe to the channel or read the article and stuff.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: But it's one of these things that I think the ESPN
37:59
SPEAKER_00: or whatever distribution we were getting
38:00
SPEAKER_00: in America made Japanese boxing more accessible and palatable.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: And now it's kind of like a scavenger hunt of do you have the need
38:08
SPEAKER_00: to see world championship boxing?
38:10
SPEAKER_00: It won't just lay up into you.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: It won't be featured on major telecasts that you happen to see that NAO in
38:15
SPEAKER_00: a way will be fighting on a Tuesday at this and this time and such.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is the first implication is that his brother is really
38:24
SPEAKER_00: a world-class fighter, but there's a lot of people go, ah, it's inconvenient for me.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not going to watch it.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Sam Goodman.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of people that go, oh yeah, he was supposed to fight in a way.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: I saw him fight a couple of times.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Nick Ball beat him.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: That's good enough for me.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't really need to check in on this.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Nishita lost to Junto.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: He lost to Neo in a way.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: I'd say,
38:45
SPEAKER_00: I'd say this to say this is I think there's an unrealistic expectation that That
38:50
SPEAKER_00: when fighters from Japan or other parts of the world lose,
38:55
SPEAKER_00: they're written off and people don't have the intrigue to continue
38:58
SPEAKER_00: to follow their career.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Unlike fighters that are happening in a convenient time where this was
39:03
SPEAKER_00: an evenly matched card of good fighters,
39:05
SPEAKER_00: but because none of them were like the quote unquote,
39:07
SPEAKER_00: undefeated,
39:08
SPEAKER_00: shiny, polished record and tension by all means is like an influencer boxer.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: He just turned out to have talent.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: I thought he was an influencer that was being coddled until he beat Maloney.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Um,
39:21
SPEAKER_00: But I think that my takeaway is as much as I wanted boxing to be about talent and
39:27
SPEAKER_00: the most interesting fights,
39:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm a hypocrite because I can't even set my clock because it was a 1 a.m.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: call to watch the fights.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: But it was the fight I tried to promote the most.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: It was the fight I was most intrigued by.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: And yet here I am,
39:40
SPEAKER_00: and I had to watch like a highlights package and skim through just to be able
39:44
SPEAKER_00: to talk about the fights because it's not as relevant right now.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think to your point there that when these guys are hyped up and then they lose
39:54
SPEAKER_01: a fight,
39:56
SPEAKER_01: where you are in the States,
39:57
SPEAKER_01: where I am over here in the UK, we don't pay attention, do we?
40:01
SPEAKER_01: It's the same as...
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Fighters from other obscure countries,
40:05
SPEAKER_01: we care about them when they're fighting on our shows or when they've got
40:07
SPEAKER_01: a little bit of hype surrounding them in their own country.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: But as soon as they lose or as soon as they start to slip down the card
40:14
SPEAKER_01: a little bit, we don't really follow their career.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: And then I found out a few times where they pop up a few years later on a card
40:19
SPEAKER_01: and I go, I think I've seen that guy fight before.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I watched him on a New Year's Eve Japan card five years ago
40:26
SPEAKER_01: and they make this comeback and you don't really know what's happened in between.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: I think the refreshing thing about Japanese professional boxing certainly is,
40:35
SPEAKER_01: they kind of just fight everybody.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: They're not bothered, right?
40:38
SPEAKER_01: They fight, they go win, they go lose.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: They're not really stressed about that.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: They don't sort of protect that undefeated record.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And I watched a friend of mine,
40:47
SPEAKER_01: a guy called Henry, who does documentaries, boxing documentaries.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: He covered Nakatani versus Inui over there.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: He went over there, did a documentary.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: You should check it out if you haven't watched it.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: But he was going to like the Japanese small halls and he was going to Japanese gyms
41:02
SPEAKER_01: and getting a feel for like the next generation of Japanese fighters.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: And there's some freakishly talented,
41:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
41:09
SPEAKER_01: young team,
41:10
SPEAKER_01: like 14,
41:10
SPEAKER_01: 15 year old guys in the gym who just to me look like absolute class,
41:16
SPEAKER_01: you know, like superb fighters.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: And you know,
41:18
SPEAKER_01: as soon as they become 17, 18,
41:21
SPEAKER_01: they're going to be thrown into these tough fights because he goes to
41:23
SPEAKER_01: a small hall card.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: And he's in some Japanese boxing hall.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: And every fight that he's talking about or he's covering, they're all absolute wars.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're great fights.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: They're really well matched.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Guys win, guys lose.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's really too bothered about that.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: And they'll come back and they'll do it again.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: So I think there might be a little bit of a lull in terms of Japanese talent for
41:44
SPEAKER_01: the next generation.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: But I think we've been very lucky to sort of have what we've had over the past five
41:48
SPEAKER_01: to ten years.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: I think as a country, they'll produce plenty of talent over the next 5-10 years as well.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Love the chat.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: I prefer to watch Japanese over even UK cards because they're often much better,
42:01
SPEAKER_00: both in the sense of quality of card and the excite the crowd,
42:04
SPEAKER_00: which you do not get in the USA.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Japanese fight nights are the best.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: They deliver time and time again.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: We love Japanese cards in the UK, typically late morning, early afternoon.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I think it speaks to the high intelligence of Japan.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: My podcast audience where we get the most nerdy, hardcore fans that are just like sport first.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: But I'm with you.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't wait to watch that documentary that you talk about.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: But I guess when I went and wrote this whatever story that people maybe looked
42:31
SPEAKER_00: at was the talent is obviously there.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: The history is there.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: The greatest fighters there.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: But will there be a runway for the next generation to get the national exposure?
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Or will there just be guys fighting?
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And it'll be maybe like,
42:49
SPEAKER_00: it'll be up to the writers to be like, this dude's a pound for pound level guy.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Because I think the thing with Inouye that I was looking
42:56
SPEAKER_00: at was you had Chocolatito Gonzalez,
42:57
SPEAKER_00: who was a darling in the media,
42:59
SPEAKER_00: and you had Juan Francisco Estrada,
43:01
SPEAKER_00: a great rival,
43:02
SPEAKER_00: where if you don't love Chocolatito,
43:03
SPEAKER_00: there's this other guy that gave him a hard fight.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: So you had like the back and forth drama,
43:08
SPEAKER_00: and then you have Inouye rising up as the guy that might be able to beat both
43:12
SPEAKER_00: of them.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And I guess my question is,
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Jesse Bam Rodriguez kind of benefited from that because there's in a way,
43:18
SPEAKER_00: but there's Jesse Bam.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Who's the guy who is, is there a guy that emerges to fight Bam?
43:25
SPEAKER_00: And if there's not a great lower weight guy, Is it just like a paradox?
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Is there just a great fighter?
43:32
SPEAKER_00: I guess what I'm saying,
43:34
SPEAKER_00: a long-winded,
43:34
SPEAKER_00: boring question to say,
43:36
SPEAKER_00: it seems like in the lower weight classes,
43:37
SPEAKER_00: you need intrigue of another fighter possibly beating a guy.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if this current talented generation of Japanese boxers will have
43:46
SPEAKER_00: that type of person.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Because I always think that the next generation is better than the previous based
43:51
SPEAKER_00: on just knowledge people have obtained.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: But if the rivalries aren't there, I think the emotional connection isn't.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think
44:01
SPEAKER_01: you're spot on.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think we had that very unusual but positive support of
44:07
SPEAKER_01: the smaller weight classes,
44:08
SPEAKER_01: the Superfly weights when I think was it Tom Law that was putting
44:13
SPEAKER_01: on all those cards,
44:14
SPEAKER_01: the Superfly cards when it was your Chocolatitos and,
44:17
SPEAKER_01: you know, Rung Versailles and guys like that.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: That was a weird sort of investment in the lower weights because you had four
44:25
SPEAKER_01: or five guys that were top, top class and who'd all have featured...
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Towards the high end of like a pound for pound top 20 probably.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think you're right,
44:35
SPEAKER_01: probably away from your Bam Rodriguez's,
44:39
SPEAKER_01: away from your Inouye's and stuff like that, you don't really have that anymore.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: You don't have four, five, six guys.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Even then you had guys like Quadras was floating about on the outskirts
44:49
SPEAKER_01: who would give everybody a good fight.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: It needs that.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: It feels like those lower weight classes often need a group of fighters
44:58
SPEAKER_01: to be willing to take each other on and build each other in terms of profile
45:02
SPEAKER_01: from great fights.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think that period of time we benefited from watching those guys just fight each other.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember a dull fight.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Every time those guys fought each other, it was exciting.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: There were so many punches thrown.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: They were always competitive.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: And that kind of just pushed on the lower divisions.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: And when you look now,
45:20
SPEAKER_01: if I'm looking at Even we mentioned Bam and if I look at the rankings now,
45:25
SPEAKER_01: you don't see a lot of guys under Bam as number one who are going to change
45:29
SPEAKER_01: the division or who are going to make a huge impact.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: You've got a lot of guys that are kind of probably holding on to box rec rankings
45:35
SPEAKER_01: but are probably on their way out a little bit as well and kind of slipping down
45:38
SPEAKER_01: that ladder.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: So it'll be interesting to see because it was notoriously those divisions
45:43
SPEAKER_01: that struggled with sort of public attention, mainstream attention from boxing fans.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
45:50
SPEAKER_01: it's always one that's going to have a hard time because there are less knockouts,
45:53
SPEAKER_01: there are less explosive,
45:55
SPEAKER_01: exciting,
45:56
SPEAKER_01: highlight reel finishes,
45:58
SPEAKER_01: but they're often absolutely rapid fire,
46:02
SPEAKER_01: technically sound and astute fighters that will produce good fights,
46:05
SPEAKER_01: but it's just whether anybody's watching them, to your point.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think also, and then we probably got to jump because I got to go somewhere, but is...
46:15
SPEAKER_00: That they were affordable fights to throw on that were high quality.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: And in the last 15 years,
46:20
SPEAKER_00: they really caught fire,
46:21
SPEAKER_00: not just because of the fighters,
46:22
SPEAKER_00: but I think streaming really helped the flyweight divisions because you could put on
46:26
SPEAKER_00: a main event that didn't break the budget.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: And these guys were happy to get really good paydays in all sense of things,
46:34
SPEAKER_00: but they're cheaper than say a heavyweight payday.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: So I think that the advent of streaming helped the flyweight division.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: But it is, I think you've summed it up perfectly.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: You need a group of guys to propel up the division.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
46:45
SPEAKER_00: I think for Japanese boxing,
46:47
SPEAKER_00: you need,
46:48
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion,
46:49
SPEAKER_00: once again,
46:50
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion, in my opinion, You need the pound for pound list to matter.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: I think that pound for pound lists annoy people,
46:56
SPEAKER_00: but like a really relevant fighter that you don't see creates intrigue for
47:01
SPEAKER_00: a hardcore boxing fan to explore.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think for Japanese boxing to be on the national level,
47:07
SPEAKER_00: which look, it's sustaining well on its own, it doesn't need worldwide success.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: But as a boxing fan, I want a healthy sport that accurately depicts the best in the world.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is an instance where the pound for pound list actually makes sense.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally agree.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think as a,
47:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
47:24
SPEAKER_01: as a consumer of boxing,
47:25
SPEAKER_01: but someone who's maybe not as addicted or,
47:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
47:27
SPEAKER_01: as dedicated as you and I are or have been,
47:31
SPEAKER_01: if I see a list of top pound for pound fighters and I can recognise seven or eight
47:35
SPEAKER_01: of those guys,
47:36
SPEAKER_01: but I see three or four names that are in there that I would never know
47:39
SPEAKER_01: or would never pick out of a crowd, that piques my interest a little bit as well.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: So if I've never heard of Niwa Anui because I only really watch American cards
47:47
SPEAKER_01: or British cards,
47:48
SPEAKER_01: but I see them ranked number one,
47:49
SPEAKER_01: number two,
47:50
SPEAKER_01: pound for pound,
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Immediately it kind of sparks something in me where I go, right,
47:54
SPEAKER_01: this guy must be legit because he's ranked above Canelo,
47:57
SPEAKER_01: he's ranked above Bevo, who is this guy?
48:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why, to your point, they are important in those lists.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also why coverage from boxing media is important outside
48:08
SPEAKER_01: of their own little circle, their own talent pool.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Because if we're not looking at stuff like that,
48:13
SPEAKER_01: we're not talking about things like that,
48:15
SPEAKER_01: You know,
48:15
SPEAKER_01: no one no one's really going to know and no one's really going
48:18
SPEAKER_01: to be paying attention unless it's slapped on the television screen right in front
48:21
SPEAKER_01: of them.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: OK, well,
48:23
SPEAKER_00: I sadly I had more questions to ask you,
48:25
SPEAKER_00: but I have to run because I'm I'm actually going to play golf.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Craig, thank you for coming on.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to get you back on because there's a whole gang
48:33
SPEAKER_00: of Ricky Hatton Foundation questions I have for you, but I literally have to run.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: I have about 15 minutes to drive 15 minutes away from my house.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell people about just how they can support you and follow you
48:50
SPEAKER_00: because I think you've been a great guest.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you, Lukie, and I appreciate the time.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: You can get me on Twitter.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not calling it X.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: You can get me on Twitter at Chegg, C-H-E-G, Scott, S-C-O-T-T-2-0-9.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: My Substack is just under my name, Craig Scott.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: It's called Punchlines, and that's where you'll find the blog every week.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
49:12
SPEAKER_01: we'll be back out tomorrow with some more updates on
49:14
SPEAKER_01: the Ricky Hatton Foundation stuff.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, plenty of other bits and pieces, but pleasure to chat, mate.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's been great.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Tune in next week.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: We'll have another guest.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Dakota's still on assignment.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: We're going to be probably back in the UK because it's a UK card.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Love talking to all you guys, and Craig, you've been a great guest.