Latest / Sales Pipeline Radio / Marketing Leadership Lessons in the Age of AI

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Marketing Leadership Lessons in the Age of AI · Sales Pipeline Radio

• 0:16
  Matt Heinz: All right.
• 0:16
  We are live, with another episode of Sales Pipeline Radio.
• 0:20
  I'm your host, Matt Heinz.
• 0:20
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:23
  This is, we've been doing this now, Ashley, for I think about 10 years.
• 0:28
  We've got hundreds of episodes- that you can all find back
• 0:32
  at salespipelineradio.com.
• 0:34
  It's been fun to continue this series, just really just talking to some
• 0:37
  smart people in the industry, about what's working, what's not, just kinda
• 0:40
  have some authentic conversations.
• 0:42
  And excited that you are here with us.
• 0:44
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• 0:48
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• 0:57
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• 1:00
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• 1:04
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• 1:10
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• 1:13
  at salespipelineradio.com.
• 1:15
  Excited to have, today CMO to the Stars, longtime CMO Coffee Talk member,
• 1:21
  Ashley Deibert, who's joining us, today.
• 1:24
  Ashley, how you doing?
• 1:25
  Ashley Deibert: I'm doing well.
• 1:26
  How are you, Matt?
• 1:27
  Matt Heinz: I'm good.
• 1:28
  You know, it's, what are we, like, a week away from Halloween?
• 1:31
  Yes as we record this, I think.
• 1:31
  Ashley Deibert: My favorite holiday.
• 1:33
  Matt Heinz: Is it your favorite holiday?
• 1:34
  Ashley Deibert: It is.
• 1:35
  It is.
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  You know, I think it bring, it brings out my creative side, so,
• 1:39
  - Matt Heinz: Okay.
• 1:39
  So okay, so I have some follow-up questions.
• 1:40
  We may or may not get to sales and marketing at this point.
• 1:43
  We'll see.
• 1:44
  So, favorite Halloween movie
• 1:48
  Ashley Deibert: Oh, I just watched it Tuesday night, Psycho, Alfred Hitchcock.
• 1:52
  Matt Heinz: Psycho.
• 1:52
  The, the original Psycho.
• 1:54
  Ashley Deibert: The original, yes.
• 1:55
  Okay.
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  Love a good old scary black and white film from-
• 1:58
  Matt Heinz: That's a, that's a, that's that century that's a solid choice.
• 2:00
  That's a solid choice.
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  We, the, as our kids get older we're starting to introduce them to more, like,
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  not scary movies, but, like, movies that when they were kids we probably shouldn't,
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  you know, shouldn't have watched.
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  So Gremlins is on Yeah for the night.
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  - Ashley Deibert: That's a Christmas film for me.
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  Matt Heinz: I was just gonna say.
• 2:14
  Technically a Christmas movie, but a little more appropriate
• 2:16
  to watch now perhaps.
• 2:18
  I don't know, you can watch it whenever you want.
• 2:20
  And then give me, like, a, one of your favorite Halloween costumes of all time.
• 2:26
  Ashley Deibert: Yeah, actually, so my husband and I have been, together,
• 2:30
  well, we've been dating since 2010, married in 2015, and I think our second
• 2:33
  year of dating, we were both big into Halloween, we did Dia de los Muertos
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  costumes, which take a significant amount of makeup if you' Yeah familiar
• 2:43
  with, yeah, what that look is.
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  And it was one of my favorites because I did all the makeup on
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  both of us, and we looked amazing.
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  We lived in New York City at the time.
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  Walking around we looked like a dead bride and groom, which was, you know,
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  just foreshadowing, I guess, where our where our relationship was going.
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  And, we got so many compliments all over the place.
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  That one was just, like, one of my standout favorites 'cause,
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  'cause of the work I put into it.
• 3:07
  Matt Heinz: Like, I was gonna say, like, that would be amazing.
• 3:09
  And just, like, sort of nonchalantly sort of walking around, you know,
• 3:12
  Manhattan- Just with all that stuff on.
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  Would be awesome.
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  Ashley Deibert: Well, it's New York, nothing scares anybody anymore.
• 3:17
  Matt Heinz: This is true.
• 3:17
  This is true.
• 3:18
  Well, you're reminding me too, I have to make a note so, you know, tomorrow,
• 3:20
  when we do our CMO Coffee Talk I have to remind people that next week, you know,
• 3:23
  will be Halloween Eve, which means it will be our annual Halloween costume,
• 3:28
  not required- Ooh but highly encouraged.
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  So-
• 3:31
  Ashley Deibert: I think I'm gonna be in on that one, Matt
• 3:33
  Matt Heinz: I think you gotta, get up early, get the paint going, so
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  bring Dia de los Muertos back from the dead figuratively and literally.
• 3:41
  Could be fun.
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  Could be fun.
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  - Ashley Deibert: I will be there for that for sure.
• 3:43
  Yeah.
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  I'm glad you reminded me.
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  Matt Heinz: Awesome.
• 3:46
  Well, you know, when we were, we were talking about, what
• 3:49
  to talk about here today.
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  Right?
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  And I think, you know, it's, it's fascinating to be able to
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  sometimes take a step back on what's happening out there, right?
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  And I know you're, you know, sort of, you know, on the, on the look for, on
• 4:02
  the, on the hunt for the next adventure.
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  And so I think it's, when you go through that process and in those interviews, sort
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  of you're not, like, you know, in the heat of the moment trying to get more people to
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  the webinar or trying to figure out, like, you Yeah get your notes board deck ready.
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  You kind of think about, like, where we are, where we've come from, where
• 4:20
  we're headed, and I find that the more of those conversations I have the less
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  I talk about things like AI, the less I talk about MQLs, the less I talk
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  about governance- Yes and the more I end up talking about psychology.
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  Just how we operate as humans, what has changed and what maybe hasn't changed.
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  I, as you, and I know you're a, you're, you're a, you're a, you're a hot
• 4:44
  commodity and you're gonna land soon, but as you' as you're going through
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  those, interviews, like what's your perspective when you talk to people
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  that are like, "What is marketing now, and what are we, kinda what are,
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  what things do we need to prioritize?"
• 4:56
  Ashley Deibert: Yeah.
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  It's such a great question, and I wanna start by answering and saying I
• 5:00
  think this is a great topic for anybody to have in an interview, because you
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  need to understand the company's point of view and perspective on it just
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  as much as they understand yours.
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  Because we're all on this journey together.
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  We really haven't been in this AI world, if you think about it, as
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  intensely as it is Yeah for that long.
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  So anybody that says that they have this figured out is a liar.
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  Just flat out a liar.
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  So, in my conversations what I've been trying to test is does my thesis and
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  mindset around AI next to the humans match how the organization is thinking about it?
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  So I just come into my conversations and I say, "Look, human first, AI
• 5:45
  forward." I think AI is, has these amazing capabilities to help us do more
• 5:51
  faster, but it, at least right now in my opinion, doesn't have the taste and
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  judgment that a human brings to the mix.
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  And we really have a responsibility to, help our teams and our organizations
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  adopt these tools just like we were doing with any other tools that were brought
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  to us in the stack- 20 years ago, right?
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  It's the same thing.
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  So I think because of the nature of AI, some people forget like this is a
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  tool that we're being given and we can leverage to help us scale our roles.
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  But- I really wanna impress on people that I do not think of it
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  as a replacement, and we have I've had some really good conversations
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  about the idea of replacement.
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  But I, what I am seeing is that obviously organizations need to
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  continue to figure out how to meet their growth targets efficiently.
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  And so AI does have a role there where we're not, our teams
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  aren't as big as they used to be.
• 6:55
  And, not just for a budget exercise, because they don't have to.
• 7:01
  Matt Heinz: Yeah.
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  And I think that you can see that as a threat, you can see that as an
• 7:04
  opportunity such as everything, right?
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  Depending on sort of what we're looking at here.
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  It's interesting to me that, like, we keep focusing on the technology
• 7:14
  and all the tools we have around us.
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  But if you can step back and just, like, think, how do we operate?
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  How do we, how do we engage with the world?
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  How do we engage- That's right with each other?
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  It's, it's another recurring theme in Brent Adamson's book from last year,
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  Framemaking Sale, where his whole point is around framemaking is around
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  customer, not customer confidence, but customer self-confidence.
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  Like, how how confident is, are you in what you're doing,
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  what you're prioritizing, what problems you're solving, whether
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  those are the right problems?
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  And so if I think about marketing from the form, from the, from perspective of
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  self-confidence, how do we do that, right?
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  And how do we marry that with eventually a buying journey that
• 7:58
  doesn't start with a Right field, it doesn't start with a demo request, but
• 8:02
  starts with wondering if I should do something different and Well you know?
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  Ashley Deibert: Well, well that's just it.
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  I think so many, people are, they just wanna jump to the tactic.
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  We've gotta we've gotta get this stuff in market.
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  We've gotta get it done.
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  We have a lot of pressure on us to hit a growth target.
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  And I always say I say this to people in my interview cycles, "I'm
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  a marketer, I know how to spend money." That's not the problem.
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  There's myriad tactics that we can deploy.
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  What am I saying when I'm trying to reach those people?
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  And so I think in this quest for speed, we forget to just start
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  with the customer's problem.
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  And the outcome that they value.
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  And the credible evidence that we, that organization, can deliver against that.
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  'Cause a buyer can know who you are and still have no
• 8:54
  compelling reason to choose you.
• 8:56
  Matt Heinz: That's right.
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  Ashley Deibert: That's why even in the age of AI, I care so much about preference.
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  Building a reason before a formal buying process starts.
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  So my concern is that with AI, we're gonna get really efficient
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  at showing up everywhere with essentially the same message.
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  So you still have to answer, why should this particular buyer care?
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  Matt Heinz: And, and why should this buyer care, and how does that align
• 9:22
  with what they're trying to accomplish?
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  How does that Exactly.
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  Align with the belief system they Yes organizationally as well as individually?
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  I mean, it get, you can get pretty deep, but those become
• 9:32
  the real solid tethers, right?
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  You know, whether someone, if someone says, "I use an Apple product,"
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  versus, "I am an Apple user," versus, "I am an Apple fanatic," right?
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  I mean, there's levels of depth that speak to your identity, right?
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  Not just your usage patterns and your, the things you do, but, like, who you are.
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  I, and I think that what's interesting is the, our ability to see and
• 9:59
  hear and react to that as marketers is getting richer and richer.
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  You know, when you, when it previously you were just, like, putting a form
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  in front of someone and saying, "You want the white paper? Tell us who
• 10:08
  you are so we can and call you." And
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  Ashley Deibert: The good old days.
• 10:12
  Matt Heinz: Yeah, but I mean, now you have the ability to, like, for your buyers and
• 10:15
  prospects to, like, talk to your website.
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  Ashley Deibert: That's right.
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  Matt Heinz: You know?
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  And say, like, "I'm, don't make me go search, just find this for me," right?
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  Or, "Here's my problem. Help me." And, you know, if you can earn the trust of
• 10:25
  someone to sort of share some of that, the richness of that context and the ability
• 10:31
  for you to now not hand off a lead to a sales rep, but imagine being able to hand
• 10:36
  off, like, a conversational transcript-
• 10:39
  Ashley Deibert: That's
• 10:39
  Matt Heinz: Right that happened recently on the website, and what does
• 10:41
  that imply about how to follow up?
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  And there's I mean, that's, I'd argue that's a richer lead.
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  It's also a lead sales doesn't currently know what to do with, so there's a
• 10:48
  whole bunch of process change and change management have to go with that.
• 10:51
  But our ability to actively engage has exponentially grown in format as well
• 11:00
  as in placement in the buying journey.
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  Ashley Deibert: Yeah.
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  And I mean, I think for for some that can feel really daunting, right?
• 11:07
  Like, there's just- So many different ways now and the technology's moving
• 11:11
  really fast and I would, I just got used to hooking Claude into my
• 11:15
  HubSpot, and now I have to do you Yeah all these different things.
• 11:18
  But I think you said something really important that I very much agree
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  with, which is, "And we're not sure that they would even know what to do
• 11:25
  with that, so there's a lot of change management there," and I would agree.
• 11:29
  I think a few years ago we were using this stat, something like 70% of the
• 11:34
  buyer's journey is happening before a conversation even takes place.
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  They're doing all this research, they're talking in their communities,
• 11:42
  they're on your website, they snuck into a webinar, whatever it is.
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  Now I think somebody's told me the other day, which I believe it's more like 90%.
• 11:50
  So, so much is happening without us in the room.
• 11:55
  And now it's our job as marketers to make sure that even when we don't
• 12:00
  exactly have a touchpoint with you yet, that we're providing enough
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  compelling, engaging materials, messaging so that that potential
• 12:10
  buyer Does make it all the way there.
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  Because by the time that they do talk to somebody, we want them to
• 12:17
  accelerate process, not start it over.
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  And I think that's the change management too, is that handoff from
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  going from the marketing process into the buying cycle, is that it's people
• 12:29
  wanna go, "Okay, I'm here to do my discovery call." Well, a lot of those
• 12:33
  boxes are already filled in for you.
• 12:35
  Matt Heinz: Well, and it' That It's not my job as a buyer to fill you in
• 12:39
  on things you should already know.
• 12:43
  Even though that's your process.
• 12:45
  We did a, did a webinar earlier today with our partners at Docket, and we talked
• 12:49
  about like three handoffs that happen that are just part of the buying process that
• 12:53
  most people don't articulate well enough.
• 12:55
  There's the buyer to marketer, right?
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  There's the marketer to sales, and then there's sales back to the buyer.
• 13:00
  Right?
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  And sort of how does information change, exchange?
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  How does confidence build and be sustained?
• 13:08
  If you're gonna have that rich conversation with someone on our website
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  and they can come back tomorrow, don't you wanna pick it back up versus treating
• 13:13
  them as someone that's brand new?
• 13:14
  "Oh, hi, who are you?" We talked for 20 minutes yesterday, right?
• 13:18
  So thinking through- The conversation you wanna have, the way that you
• 13:24
  are building trust and credibility along the way, and treating that as
• 13:28
  seamlessly as possible, not only to your point about like making sure that
• 13:33
  the information you have is built on versus repeated- But also reducing
• 13:39
  these traditional points of friction we put in front of us and the buyer,
• 13:43
  such as forms, such as discovery calls.
• 13:46
  Things that we have seen as part of our sales process might be
• 13:52
  counterproductive from a buyer's standpoint
• 13:53
  Ashley Deibert: Absolutely.
• 13:54
  I mean, I've hated forms for years.
• 13:56
  Again, Yeah if anybody on my team sees this, they're gonna, they're gonna be
• 14:00
  nodding from my previous teams where I I usually come in and I'm like, "Take
• 14:04
  down those forms." "But, but how will we know?" And, you know, I've talked a lot
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  about with, again, in my current interview cycles or in past roles, I don't give
• 14:14
  a crap about inbound versus outbound.
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  I just care about capturing, giving them enough information and capturing that.
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  Whether they filled out a form and came to us or a BDR captured them,
• 14:25
  they finally got the reply, like, this whole traditional, the traditional
• 14:30
  funnel is was really collapsed.
• 14:32
  And look, I think it's this advancement of all these tools and people being
• 14:37
  able to collect this information on their own is incredible, and I
• 14:41
  really do think we gotta shift a lot of our focus on that part of it.
• 14:46
  And also, people don't really want fluffy content anymore.
• 14:50
  Right many years ago we'd say, "Okay, what's our TOFU, MOFU, BOFU
• 14:53
  strategy?" I'm like- Now it's like, it's, it's AEO, GEO, and, engaging,
• 15:01
  you know, content for humans.
• 15:02
  So, you know, you gotta, you gotta feed the robot and you gotta feed the human.
• 15:07
  Matt Heinz: Well, and the pushback you shared, right?
• 15:09
  Of what if we get rid of forms?
• 15:11
  Like, how will we know?
• 15:12
  How will we know?
• 15:13
  As soon as you as soon as your question includes we, it means this
• 15:17
  is something you need as a seller that may not be what the buyer needs.
• 15:20
  And my response to that is usually like, "No, they'll come to us when they're
• 15:23
  ready." It's like, "Well, we need to know how, who, and we need to " No, no.
• 15:26
  Like, if we could make this philosophical shift from being
• 15:31
  interruptive to being irresistible-
• 15:35
  Right?
• 15:35
  So instead of like forcing people to do something, make yourself
• 15:39
  so compelling that they wanna come spend more time with you.
• 15:43
  That they wanna learn from you.
• 15:45
  Ashley Deibert: I mean, this is what I talk a lot about, trying to coin this term
• 15:50
  in my, commentary, preference marketing.
• 15:53
  It's the intersection of brand and demand.
• 15:55
  Like- By the time they get to you' they've already got a shortlist.
• 15:59
  You wanna, you wanna be in that top three, I mean, hopefully number one, but
• 16:03
  buyers aren't buying all the time, right?
• 16:05
  And so just because they they came to your website or even to your
• 16:08
  event I was just at this great event last week put on by OneMind.
• 16:12
  Shout out to OneMind.
• 16:13
  I am not a buyer yet because I'm not actually in a role, but the fact that
• 16:17
  they're engaging me in the way that they are, you can bet your butt that
• 16:21
  when I' I'm in a role and I'm ready to evaluate tools like theirs, they're
• 16:25
  going to the top of my preference stack.
• 16:27
  Because they've done the work to engage me on the things that
• 16:31
  I care about as a marketer.
• 16:33
  Matt Heinz: Yeah.
• 16:34
  And you still have to have something that follows through on that, right?
• 16:37
  Like, if you do all of that work and you have a crappy product or service, you're
• 16:40
  you're gonna be screwed no matter what.
• 16:42
  Ashley Deibert: Garbage in,
• 16:42
  Matt Heinz: Garbage out.
• 16:43
  But if you, yeah, but if you invest in the relationships, if you invest- Yes
• 16:47
  in preference building, if you invest in what I If, if maybe I should use Claude to
• 16:51
  help rebrand, like a value deposit, right?
• 16:53
  Like you're just- You're continuing to build value with someone that is not
• 16:56
  going to convert today or tomorrow or maybe next week But if they're in your
• 17:01
  target market, building preference and credibility and trust with that audience
• 17:05
  before they're ready to buy is going to make the actual buying process faster,
• 17:09
  easier, shorter, more likely to convert.
• 17:13
  So you're investing in future sales.
• 17:16
  How do I pay for that now?
• 17:17
  How do I justify that?
• 17:18
  You gotta have that conversation.
• 17:20
  But at some point, those deals are going to come back, and they are going
• 17:24
  Yes happen, and they're gonna happen in a far more likely way than if you
• 17:28
  would've tried to force something on Yeah when they're not ready.
• 17:31
  Ashley Deibert: I think actually the nurture aspect of our job in
• 17:35
  marketing has become so critical.
• 17:38
  And I don't think enough of us are thinking about it, and also how
• 17:41
  do we measure that and communicate that back to our leaders in
• 17:44
  the company and even the board.
• 17:46
  So we get sometimes caught in these cycles where it's like, "Well, you haven't
• 17:51
  generated enough pipeline." And again, it comes back to not all these people in our
• 17:56
  target account list are buying right now.
• 18:00
  Never The vast
• 18:00
  Matt Heinz: Majority are not never will
• 18:01
  Ashley Deibert: Be.
• 18:03
  Matt Heinz: Yeah.
• 18:03
  It, it's patience.
• 18:04
  It's patience and discipline.
• 18:07
  And I get that, you know, look, if you're, if you're a startup, if you're
• 18:10
  a growth company, you have to hit your number this month, this quarter.
• 18:13
  Totally get it, and you're right.
• 18:15
  But you need to be thinking about the deals you wanna have a year
• 18:18
  from now and two years from now.
• 18:20
  And some companies are not structured to really care about that.
• 18:23
  I mean, depending on how you, who your investors are and what their
• 18:26
  goals are, their priorities might not be longevity of the business.
• 18:29
  Their priorities might not be, you know, long-term customer relationships.
• 18:32
  It might be an exit, right?
• 18:33
  And if you' Yeah prioritizing around an exit, like look, like it's,
• 18:36
  you know, it's business, fine.
• 18:39
  But if you know you're gonna need to generate business in two years, and that's
• 18:43
  probably gonna be a bigger number than you have today, how are you investing
• 18:46
  today in the people that won't be ready to buy but will be in a couple years, is
• 18:51
  a more difficult conversation to have.
• 18:53
  Ashley Deibert: Yeah, you're
• 18:53
  Matt Heinz: Exactly right.
• 18:53
  But it is exactly why, you know, with startups it's that, "What, how many
• 18:57
  leads did I get yesterday? What kind of pipeline do I have?" And the bigger
• 18:59
  the company, the more likely you see them putting their logo on a Formula One
• 19:03
  car, sponsoring golf tournaments, right?
• 19:06
  Like, investing in broader plays that are more about it's an it's a brand you
• 19:11
  know, now I just need to reinforce the relationship you Yeah with this brand.
• 19:16
  So that when you are ready to buy, of course you go to IBM,
• 19:18
  of course you go to Smartsheet.
• 19:19
  Of course, 'cause, 'cause these are the brands you know.
• 19:21
  Ashley Deibert: Well, and the experience that they had with
• 19:24
  them during their off cycle, you know, I'm not in a buying cycle.
• 19:30
  Like, that's so impactful, and that's why I really am so I mean, I started
• 19:33
  my career as a demand marketer, and I grew into a brand marketer.
• 19:39
  And most of the people always ask So, like, what are you?
• 19:42
  Are you brand or demand?
• 19:43
  I'm like, "I'm both, baby. You can't Yeah one or the other." And I love
• 19:48
  that brand is having its moment.
• 19:49
  It does still take multiple touch points across the journey, but
• 19:54
  also we can't do them all at once.
• 19:56
  So I think what you said is really important, too.
• 19:58
  What, what is the true goal?
• 20:00
  I mean, two CMO roles ago, I was brought in to help exit the business.
• 20:05
  So my motions were very different- Than when I joined a company that
• 20:09
  was trying to go from 30 to 100.
• 20:11
  Very different where we invested.
• 20:14
  And that's really important to understand alongside what you're saying
• 20:18
  to your buyer, but because you have to bring those, plans and outcomes
• 20:24
  of those plans back to the board.
• 20:26
  Matt Heinz: Yeah.
• 20:27
  I think it's silly when we start having these brand versus demand conversations.
• 20:30
  Oh, it's silly.
• 20:31
  And like, no, I'm not Like, it, I'm a revenue marketer, right?
• 20:33
  And that means short-term and long-term revenue.
• 20:35
  It means not only sort of making sure that we can keep the lights on here, but
• 20:39
  making sure that as the business grows, these customers become more profitable.
• 20:43
  As we grow, our acquisition costs start to shrink because we've invested in things
• 20:48
  that are making those conversion rates better, that are helping more of the
• 20:51
  market come to us versus us going to them.
• 20:53
  Your sales team doesn't need leads.
• 20:54
  Your sales team needs a market that craves what you're selling.
• 20:57
  Right?
• 20:58
  And leads are a means to get there, but this isn't It's not, it's not binary.
• 21:04
  Ashley Deibert: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:05
  And as I was at this confer- I was mentioned I was at this conference last
• 21:08
  week, we were actually having a pretty deep conversation around everybody's new
• 21:11
  favorite hot topic, which is AI search.
• 21:14
  And I was talking about how, like, now so many of these LLMs rely on your
• 21:19
  customer, your public customer reviews.
• 21:22
  So if you have crummy reviews and disgruntled customers-
• 21:26
  That's gonna show up.
• 21:27
  Like, you can't, you can't market your way out of that.
• 21:30
  And I Right this actually means that our presentation of who we are
• 21:35
  in the market, AKA brand, is not just a marketing problem to solve.
• 21:40
  This is a company-wide mission.
• 21:43
  Matt Heinz: Yep.
• 21:43
  Yep, you're right.
• 21:44
  Well, I told you this would be maybe 15, 20 minutes, and we're already well over.
• 21:47
  And just this has been such This has really been a delightful conversation.
• 21:50
  Yeah,
• 21:50
  Ashley Deibert: It
• 21:50
  Matt Heinz: Has.
• 21:50
  Just covering a lot of ground.
• 21:52
  And, if people wanna learn more about you, where can they find you?
• 21:56
  Ashley Deibert: Well, they can find me on LinkedIn.
• 21:59
  Do you want me to give any other contact info?
• 22:01
  No, I think
• 22:01
  Matt Heinz: That's fine.
• 22:01
  I mean,
• 22:02
  Ashley Deibert: Definitely
• 22:02
  Matt Heinz: Check her out.
• 22:02
  Ashley Deibert: I mean, if I'm very responsive on LinkedIn, and, I love
• 22:05
  just networking with anybody, so, and I don't have any upcoming events that
• 22:09
  I'll be out in the market at, but, I'm sure, if you see a, if you see a
• 22:14
  CMO event out there in the wild, I'm usually popping around those in person.
• 22:18
  Matt Heinz: If you see a CMO in a Dia de los Muertos- full-on makeup, you, it-
• 22:24
  Ashley Deibert: That's me
• 22:25
  Matt Heinz: That's probably Ashley as well.
• 22:26
  So that's, that's called a callback in the industry.
• 22:28
  Ashley Deibert: Hey, anything to, anything to stand out from the noise, right?
• 22:31
  Matt Heinz: That's right.
• 22:31
  That's right.
• 22:32
  Well, Ashley, thank you again for doing this.
• 22:33
  This has been a lot of fun.
• 22:33
  Yeah, thanks
• 22:34
  Ashley Deibert: Matt.
• 22:34
  It was really
• 22:34
  Matt Heinz: Fun.
• 22:34
  And thank you everyone for joining us today.
• 22:36
  Thanks for checking this episode out.
• 22:37
  We'll be back another probably next week, with another episode
• 22:40
  of Sales Pipeline Radio.
• 22:41
  Take care until then.