Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1214 - Sharp Knives and High Places: Why Your Child Needs Risky Play

Transcript

#1214 - Sharp Knives and High Places: Why Your Child Needs Risky Play · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: Today we're going to tell you how to help your
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  Speaker 1: children to be more socially agile, more resilient, have higher
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  Speaker 1: self esteem, be better problem solvers, in fact, be generally
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  Speaker 1: better all round kids by doing one simple thing. It's
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  Speaker 1: a very special doctor's desk episode of the Happy Families
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  Speaker 1: podcast Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded
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  Speaker 1: parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie, you
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  Speaker 1: love it when we talk science. These are your favorite episodes,
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  Speaker 1: And today we are going to get right into the
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  Speaker 1: nitty gritty of an International Journal of Environmental Research and
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  Speaker 1: Public Health twenty fifteen meta analysis systematic review about risky
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  Speaker 1: outdoor play and how healthy our children will be.
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  Speaker 2: Well, let's get straight into it. Then. What is risky play?
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  Speaker 2: Because you start saying things like that and with an
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  Speaker 2: intro like you gay, and I'm feeling a little bit
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  Speaker 2: nervous about what it is you're actually asking me as
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  Speaker 2: a parent to do.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, am I supposed.
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  Speaker 2: To hand my three year old's a box of matches
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  Speaker 2: and leave her to figure out what happens when we
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  Speaker 2: strike a match? Am I supposed to give my five
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  Speaker 2: year old a sharp knife? And tell them to go
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  Speaker 2: cut their own apple. Like, what is it you're asking
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  Speaker 2: me to do? All right, let's leave my kid in
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  Speaker 2: the park at seven and tell them to find their
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  Speaker 2: way home.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Lanoscanazi did it with a nine year old on
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  Speaker 1: the subway in New York City. Let's distinguish between risky
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  Speaker 1: play and genuinely hazardous or dangerous activity. Okay, So the
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  Speaker 1: researchers who wrote this paper have done exactly that, which
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  Speaker 1: is why I've suggested we start there. Dangerous or hazardous
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  Speaker 1: activity is something where a child can't assess for themselves
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  Speaker 1: what the risks are or there's no clear benefit to
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  Speaker 1: them doing it.
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  Speaker 3: So, for example, so as a.
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  Speaker 2: Three year old can't can't as says, the risk of
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  Speaker 2: crossing the road when a car's coming.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, Like if you're playing in the park and
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  Speaker 1: there's no fence and the kids could run across the road,
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  Speaker 1: that would be hazardous.
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  Speaker 3: That would be dangerous.
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  Speaker 1: I mean that's just not sensible, right, So that's not
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  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about when I say we're going to
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  Speaker 1: talk about risky play.
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  Speaker 2: Risky play, But what about my eighteen month old who
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  Speaker 2: wants to climb the stairs?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they start to figure that out, and there is
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  Speaker 1: definitely a benefit to it as well. Okay, So there
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  Speaker 1: are two things. They've got to be able to assess
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  Speaker 1: the risk and there needs to be.
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  Speaker 3: A level of benefit to it.
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  Speaker 1: There is no benefit to letting the kids run around
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  Speaker 1: and kick a footy at the age of three and
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  Speaker 1: four right next to a busy highway. Okay, find somewhere
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  Speaker 1: away from the road. That's an unnecessary In fact, it's
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  Speaker 1: a negligent level of risk.
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  Speaker 3: But your child learning.
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  Speaker 1: To navigate stairs from that eighteen to twenty four month
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  Speaker 1: age range, that's completely reasonable, totally normal. In fact, i'd
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  Speaker 1: say maybe even a little bit younger, that depth perception
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  Speaker 1: comes in and there is an element of risk, but
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  Speaker 1: it's developmentally appropriate and there's a benefit to them experiencing
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  Speaker 1: the risk because they learn how to navigate their environment effectively.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Risky play in our context today means that the child
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  Speaker 1: can identify that there is a risk, or there is
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  Speaker 1: a challenge, or there is something hazardous, and they've got
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  Speaker 1: the cognitive capacity to decide on their course of action.
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  Speaker 1: All right, They're the two things that are critical here.
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  Speaker 1: So you asked about matches before, I would say that
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  Speaker 1: a three year old probably doesn't really have the cognitive
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  Speaker 1: capacity to fully understand and comprehend what might happen. If
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  Speaker 1: they're able to light that match in the first place,
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  Speaker 1: they could burn the house down, they could set the
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  Speaker 1: forest on fire. That would be hazardous. But a seven
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  Speaker 1: year old they can, and I would say absolutely, let
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  Speaker 1: your seven year old play with matches. Doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 1: they're going to do it completely unsupervised. There needs to
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  Speaker 1: be an appropriate level of monitoring, but you can step
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  Speaker 1: away and let them have that fun. Some other examples
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  Speaker 1: maybe using a knife to cut the orange or the apple,
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  Speaker 1: or the chicken for dinner, that kind of thing. I
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  Speaker 1: should note here using a blunt knife is far more
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  Speaker 1: dangerous than using a very sharp knife. So with a
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  Speaker 1: really sharp knife, yes, if it cuts you, it's going
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  Speaker 1: to do some serious damage. But the reality is sharp
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  Speaker 1: knives don't tend to cut people. They just cut the
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  Speaker 1: thing they're supposed to be cutting. Whereas with a blunt
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  Speaker 1: knife you have to push harder, it takes a lot
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  Speaker 1: more force, it doesn't grip as well, and so the
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  Speaker 1: knife might slip off, and that's when you're much more
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  Speaker 1: likely to get cut or accidentally stab yourself for somebody
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  Speaker 1: else with a blunt knife. So sharp knives are safer
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  Speaker 1: than blunt knives.
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  Speaker 3: Isn't it interesting?
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  Speaker 2: Interesting?
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  Speaker 3: I love that.
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  Speaker 1: Other examples of risky play Kylie playing with dangerous tools, hammering, nailing,
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  Speaker 1: getting the saw out, and chopping the tree down because
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  Speaker 1: Dad can't climb up high enough in the tree, so
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  Speaker 1: he sends the nine year up to do it instead.
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  Speaker 1: You're not laughing at that. That was meant to be
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  Speaker 1: a really funny joke.
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  Speaker 2: Well, after you fell off the roof, I'm not.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, fair enough, but well, things with height,
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  Speaker 1: things with speed, things where you could slap it if
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  Speaker 1: you fall over. They're the kinds of things that we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about with risky play.
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  Speaker 2: So our children who enjoy climbing on top of the
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  Speaker 2: roof at night to watch the start.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, great, great, great, great great great.
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  Speaker 3: Let me tell you why this is a study.
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  Speaker 2: So the overall four year old who decided she wanted
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  Speaker 2: to walk to her friend's house that was eight kill
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  Speaker 2: a meters away, that.
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  Speaker 3: Was not okay.
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  Speaker 1: And we're so glad that the policeman who picked her
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  Speaker 1: up on the street that day was one.
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  Speaker 3: Of our friends.
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  Speaker 1: It's funny how like if you don't lock the front
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  Speaker 1: door and you've got little kids, they can sneak out
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  Speaker 1: and they will just try to go places. We learned
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  Speaker 1: that lesson and it was a valuable lesson. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: for reminding me. This is a synthesis of a whole
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  Speaker 1: lot of studies. So I'm going to share one study
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  Speaker 1: that they refer to. In this study, children in an
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  Speaker 1: experimental group that were exposed to a fourteen week risky
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  Speaker 1: play intervention. That is, they were encouraged to do rough
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  Speaker 1: and tumble play, or play with dane elements or tools,
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  Speaker 1: or speed or heights, or even be in a situation
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  Speaker 1: where they could disappear from the supervision of adults or
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  Speaker 1: get lost.
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  Speaker 2: Kids who pray, so I should be applauded for my
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  Speaker 2: four year old kids.
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  Speaker 1: She's always been pretty resilient and a good problem solver.
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  Speaker 1: Kids who were involved in a fourteen I can't even
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  Speaker 1: speak now in a fourteen week risky play intervention improve
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  Speaker 1: their risk detection, improve their competence, They increased their self esteem,
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  Speaker 1: and they decreased their conflict sensitivity relative to their pre
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  Speaker 1: intervention performance, as well as when they were compared to
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  Speaker 1: a control group that didn't do the risky play intervention
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  Speaker 1: at all. What this essentially says, and there's another study
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  Speaker 1: across sectional study compared children with and without ready access
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  Speaker 1: to unsupervised outdoor play opportunities and found more developed motor skills,
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  Speaker 1: improved social behavior, greater independence, and a better capacity for
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  Speaker 1: conflict resolution for the kids that were doing the risky play. Overall,
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  Speaker 1: we end up with more self esteem. Kids just do
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  Speaker 1: better when their parents let them do things that are
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  Speaker 1: dangerous and, as I've been saying on the podcast, year
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  Speaker 1: could potentially land them in hospital if things go wrong.
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  Speaker 2: I remember in one of the opening scenes of Parental Guidance,
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  Speaker 2: one of the parents walked outside to offer their children
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  Speaker 2: some afternoon tea. Yeah, and here is her son. He
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  Speaker 2: has literally scaled the street light outside their house and
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  Speaker 2: he was at the very top and she just looked
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  Speaker 2: up and she said, did you want guacamole for afternoon tea?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: He said, yeah, sure mom. It was like she didn't
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  Speaker 2: even flinch.
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  Speaker 1: Really happy kids, really well adjusted, doing really really well.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, they ended up winning Parental Guidance. The parents
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  Speaker 1: who let their kids literally climb the lamp poles in
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  Speaker 1: the street after the break We're going to share more
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  Speaker 1: about what this risky play looks like and some studies
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  Speaker 1: that can help you feel better about letting the kids
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  Speaker 1: go a little crazy. Okay, Kylie. There's a whole lot
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  Speaker 1: of research around this. It's a provocative topic. We like
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  Speaker 1: to bubble wrap and cotton wooler kids. We want them
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  Speaker 1: to be safe. I want to share a couple of
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  Speaker 1: studies that literally as I was reading through this paper
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  Speaker 1: that we will linked to in the show notes. The
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  Speaker 1: paper itself is called what is the Relationship between Risky
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  Speaker 1: Outdoor Play and Health in Children? A Systematic Review. There's
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  Speaker 1: about fifteen researchers that have worked on this thing, and
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  Speaker 1: a couple of times, not only did I underline what
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  Speaker 1: I was reading, but I also wrote the word wow
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  Speaker 1: in the margins because I was so blown away by
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  Speaker 1: what it showed. Let me highlight a couple of things.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, risky play does involve some risk. It
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  Speaker 1: is possible that your child may end up with a
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  Speaker 1: fractured elbow humorous phibia TVA.
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  Speaker 2: Or you will because you rescue them or attempt to
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  Speaker 2: rescue them.
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  Speaker 1: There is a chance that there'll be cuts and scratches
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  Speaker 1: and bruises, somebody might injure themselves.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, that's the very idea of it. Though, then did.
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  Speaker 2: Injure in yourself become such a big deal.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, when we were kids, it was so exciting
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  Speaker 1: to walk in and see that somebody had a passed
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  Speaker 1: on their arms.
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  Speaker 2: Was like, wow, the superhero in the classroom. Everybody wanted
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  Speaker 2: to know.
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  Speaker 1: You one of our daughters has fallen off. Let's call
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  Speaker 1: it monkey bars. It was a rail that she was
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  Speaker 1: swinging on like a monkey bar. She broke her arm,
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  Speaker 1: same daughter a few years later on a trapeze when
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  Speaker 1: we were on a holiday in Bali and fractured her
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  Speaker 1: arm there as well.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, the story is way better than that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm mind full of time.
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  Speaker 2: But why don't you feel like she was trying to
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  Speaker 2: do the greatest Showman trapez act where you pass like
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  Speaker 2: you go from your trapeze and you get caught by
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  Speaker 2: someone else.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're upside down and you put your arms
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  Speaker 1: out and you flip off yours and jump into the
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  Speaker 1: arms of somebody else on the other trapeze.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the other one just happened to be some muscular,
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  Speaker 2: very very attractive young man that she was so excited
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  Speaker 2: he was going to catch her, and in the flurry
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  Speaker 2: of trying to do the trick, she forgot everything.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and she fractured her.
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  Speaker 1: Worst thing is we didn't know it was broken, and
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  Speaker 1: she got up there and tried it again, and fortunately
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  Speaker 1: she didn't make the catch again, but I mean, it
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  Speaker 1: could have been terrible. And then we flew home that
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  Speaker 1: night not knowing that she had a broken arm. And
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  Speaker 1: the following week she played netball not knowing she had
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  Speaker 1: a broken arm. And after the netball game she was like,
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  Speaker 1: my arm really hurts, and we're like, well, we've already
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  Speaker 1: had an X ray, nothing had shown up, but this
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  Speaker 1: time it did show up. Anyway, I digress. Great story.
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  Speaker 1: I'm glad you shed that extra detailed made us. Guys,
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  Speaker 1: we've got a child who's walked away down the street
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  Speaker 1: at four and now we've got a child who's flown
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  Speaker 1: home from Bali with a broken arm and we didn't
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  Speaker 1: know for a week. You're making this making this look
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  Speaker 1: really bad. I want to share a couple of wow
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  Speaker 1: moments from this particular paper, because this is a doctor's
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  Speaker 1: desk episode and we do have to talk about the science. Okay, Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: So here's what we know. Kids spend less time outdoors
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  Speaker 1: and less time in unstructured play, and they have more
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  Speaker 1: time in adult structured activities now than they ever have
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  Speaker 1: in history because parents are keeping their kids inside and
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  Speaker 1: keeping an eye on them. And what that's led to
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  Speaker 1: is that access to risky outdoor play has diminished, and
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  Speaker 1: as a result, kids are less interested in playing at playgrounds,
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  Speaker 1: less interested in playing outside, and more oriented towards just
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  Speaker 1: playing it safe and staying near their parents. This is
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  Speaker 1: working against what's in the best interests of kids, but
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  Speaker 1: it works really well for parents, right because we feel safe,
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  Speaker 1: they're right here beside us. We can see what they're doing.
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  Speaker 1: They're on the carpet in the living room, and the
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  Speaker 1: screen is keeping them quiet.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're also more exhausted than we've ever been
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  Speaker 2: because we have to. We feel like we have to
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  Speaker 2: take care of our kids twenty four seven. We have
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  Speaker 2: to be in their space. We don't have the cognitive
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  Speaker 2: psychological space that we once had because our children are
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  Speaker 2: always there. We're not allowing them to be their own
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  Speaker 2: person and to experience life in a way that helps
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  Speaker 2: them to grow and problem solve on their own.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, like there's two things both working against
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  Speaker 1: kids being outdoors and maybe more like you said, we're
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  Speaker 1: so busy, but we're also really worried about them. And
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  Speaker 1: then there's just the fact that inside is so convenient
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  Speaker 1: and it's so enticing, so enticing. I think that it imitates,
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  Speaker 1: it imitates what the real world provides. Not that's the
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  Speaker 1: wrong word.
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  Speaker 3: It supports.
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  Speaker 1: It makes kids feel like their needs are being met
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  Speaker 1: better than the like instant gratification, instant reward, cheap dopamine,
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  Speaker 1: rather than going out and having to build that treehouse
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  Speaker 1: or ride up that hill or do those hard things.
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  Speaker 1: There's just one more thing that I really wanted to highlight.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I could go on and on. There's so
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  Speaker 1: much in this study, but one thing in particular really
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  Speaker 1: caught me, and that was this one study by a
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  Speaker 1: researcher called Ruby Davies showed that fracture frequency and severity
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  Speaker 1: is not related to the height of playground equipment. That is, fractures,
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  Speaker 1: which count for forty two percent of playground fractures, we're
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  Speaker 1: just as likely to occur at low heights as they
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  Speaker 1: were above that mark. In fact, fifty four percent are
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  Speaker 1: at low heights forty six percent are at high heights. Now,
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  Speaker 1: it might just be that more kids are hanging around
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  Speaker 1: at low levels, but most of the fractures are occurring at.
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  Speaker 3: Low levels, not at high levels.
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  Speaker 1: So we're trying to keep our kids low to the ground.
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  Speaker 1: We're trying to keep them safe, but they can still
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  Speaker 1: get hurt there, and they're finding the playgrounds boring and
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  Speaker 1: they're looking for other things to do. Anyway, overall, this
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  Speaker 1: is a really clear picture. Our kids need risky play.
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  Speaker 1: It benefits them. Here's the conclusion. Specifically, play where children
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  Speaker 1: can disappear or get lost and risky play supportive environments
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  Speaker 1: are positively associated with physical activity and social health and
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  Speaker 1: negative associated with sedentary behavior. Play at height not related
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  Speaker 1: to fracture frequency or severity. Engaging in rough and tumble
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  Speaker 1: play doesn't increase aggression, and it's associated with increased social
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  Speaker 1: competence for boys and popular kids. However, the results are
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  Speaker 1: a bit mixed for other kids, and there's also an
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  Speaker 1: indication that risky play is supportive of playtime, social interactions, creativity,
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  Speaker 1: and resilience.
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  Speaker 3: Case closed.
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  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from
• 14:30
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• 14:32
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• 14:35
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