Latest / Books4Guys / AI Reimagined | Charlie Apigian on Leadership, Strategy, and the Future of Work

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AI Reimagined | Charlie Apigian on Leadership, Strategy, and the Future of Work · Books4Guys

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like four or five days straight now.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the weekend was yeah, it was just okay, you know?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a perfect, pretty perfect spring though.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll you know, we'll we'll take the four or five days of rain.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: But no, Charlie, man, I'm I'm excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast as I got introduced to you from a from a friend of mine that I met last year that's also in the the data realm that you're in.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Hey, you got to talk to Charlie.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a book out, and uh want to make sure and and say your book.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's AI Reimagined: A Leader's Guide to Thinking Different with Data.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And man, Charlie, there may not be a better time to have this discussion than than this current moment in time.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, good to have you on today.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, it it what a surprise.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about AI a lot.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's uh it was interesting when I decided to write this book.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, it's always been in me to want to do it, not knowing that now that'd be my full-time gig.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I do is AI strategy.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really worked out well.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth is, when I have the best conversations, it's with people where, you know, AI is not what they do for a living.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's people that are like, okay, I need to get started and I have no idea how to do that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love to think of my superpower is taking the complex and making it sound simple so that everybody can understand it and use, in this case, AI in an effective way.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I'm curious, Charlie, I've got tons of questions for you as I was digging into your book and and kind of one thing I was taking away from it was a lot of strategy of organizations trying to figure out how to best implement things, how to get everybody on the same page, what direction are we going to go in?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious to know just kind of some of your strategy and thoughts because I'm over here thinking, you know, even my organization, things are moving so fast every single day.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all like we have our corporate kind of itinerary and direction of how we're supposed to use AI.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: All of us, I'm sure, are using our own AI platforms, whether that be Claude, ChatGPT, we're all doing probably personal things mixed in with work things, which isn't what organizations want to hear, know.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess just, you know, from from putting out the blueprint of your book, what was your thoughts behind it?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then what were some of your, I don't know, what are some things that you're really trying to help people strategize on as this, you know, this continues to just, you know, take off like a rocket for most of us.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and probably the best way for me to explain that is to I'll I'll do the 30-second version of my journey to get here, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you can it looks like I'm 10 years old or 20 years old, but uh, I've been around a while.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And going back to when I got out of college, I went straight into the family business in the car industry.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was able to from day one think strategically about a business.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily I had a dad that was like that, but he was terrible with uh customers.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that became my job as I would work with uh the clients, do the sales part.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: He stayed in the back of the shop and and did the automotive uh manufacturing side of things, and it worked out great.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was doing that, I kept being intrigued with business and the right way to take an approach.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I went and got a master's, then I got a PhD in manufacturing management, but 100% on the strategic approach.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So my my dissertation back then was actually internet strategies, a complement to an existing business practice, which at that time, I don't want to date myself, but it was definitely before 2K.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was novel.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was like we had this internet, and then that's a completely different way.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds familiar, doesn't it?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been doing this same thing.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went off into academia for 25 years at local universities that you would know, Chris, Middle Tennessee State and Belmont University.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm an accidental data scientist because I never started out as one.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden I'm like, well, I know how to code.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love statistics, I guess I'm a data scientist.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started teaching it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started, but I was always a strategy and business person first.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've noticed is as I took the deep dive into technology, the best win, and this really happened when I started doing consulting, was when you took a people and process approach, not a technical approach.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, technology is moving fast, but processes and people, the way you interact with them, how you get buy-in, all of that becomes so, so important.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and we almost forget about that and get where we're almost like it blurs a little bit when technology is so much fun.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like all I do is want to build a widget, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, putting AI on a bad process is just an accelerated bad process.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it is, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it doesn't make it better.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I was like, well, doesn't it make sense to instead of think about just using AI, what if we reimagine processes and do that first?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because now with AI, it opens up new opportunities.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so AI reimagined is that then.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's the idea of instead of thinking of technology, technology, technology, what if we reimagine that one thing we used to do and make it where it leads to delighting our customers, reducing overhead, you know, doing the right things, enhancing people, not hurting people.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really was the genesis always.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was always because I loved humans, honestly.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as a professor, I have never had a class I didn't like, never had a student I didn't like.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can't say that's the same for faculty.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just kidding, of course.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I always was empowered and inspired by those around me.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed I have that same ability as well.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just, I could talk about this and sound ridiculously passionate because I am.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a little bit of where the genesis kind of came from.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so strategy just lent itself to that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just would start asking companies, like, so why are you doing this?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's the how does that lead to your strategic initiatives?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they would say, I don't know, but we have to start using AI.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, you have to use AI to enhance what you want to do.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that turned into an AI strategy workshop that turned into a book that turns into now what I do mostly at my uh company that I'm at, which is OBMC, where we we do the technology side, but I spend almost all of my time now working with companies helping them with their strategy.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie, from a strategy standpoint, because I this kind of a two-part question, you know, talking about the dot-com area and the internet and then and moving into AI, is the strategy message similar or is it different with these two different eras?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I'm thinking is, is it challenging to get, I'm assuming it's challenging to get companies to slow down and pause for a second and say, hey, let's let's make sure our our plans, strategy, foundations here before we just sprint with these new tools.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: But with so many new tools and advancements, even in just AI from you know 12 months ago, can the strategy change that, you know, in that amount of time to where you got to have another pause and another reset?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: But but if it's the same kind of message, it shouldn't be as hard if you do it once, you know, and maybe you can implement that as technology continues to advance.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm I'm curious to know just in your experience and how you go about working with companies.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, how do you get them to pause and how do you assure them that this will help them even as technology continues to progress faster and faster?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So so that was a loaded question there, Chris.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in button.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot to think about there.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, really, really good stuff.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um strategy hasn't changed.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Business processes, what works in a business environment hasn't changed at the core.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go back to 1900 in electricity and think of what that did to what we are now doing today.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: It changed everything.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, it does the same things where we get a new technology, we get really excited about it, and we start.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to say we do cute and adorable things, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like Chat GPT initially.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was cute and adorable, but I was not gonna put, I was not gonna bank my business on that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden we start doing more and more and more.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: We usually get a reset, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like the dot-com bust.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are we gonna have an AI uh bubble?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know, but it can also be like with the mobile environment where it's more like stagnation.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we never had a bust with mobile, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But all we do now is get new cameras every year.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it allowed us to catch up to the mobile world, right?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have something and then we get enduring value out of it, like our phones now.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: We do get some real value.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and I already feel like we're at the point where we're starting to get value out of AI.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: But where it's different is we didn't see the threat to all jobs.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like when there was automation, we saw it, but it was at the lower level.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't, the people at the top are fine.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now it's coming for their jobs too.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're seeing a little bit more of a fear in the world of AI, and and kind of like kind of rightfully so, right?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I don't have all of the answers, but it's it's threatening the way we do business, the way we do education, art, you know, it's more than just putting data on the internet, like it's a completely different ball game, but that's also an opportunity.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if we focus on the right core stuff and not all the technology out there, because Chris, how many different uh innovations were there last week?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Last week was Google AI, I.O.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: week, and they announced a hundred different uh things.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Forget about the fact that Claude uh or Anthropic announced that they brought on uh Andre uh Carpathy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's moving at rates at the technology that makes you swim.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, but here here's and I'll I'll end with this part.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: When you're doing something, Chris, and you're in it, you can't take a strategic lens to it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have to slow down, you have to take a step back.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do that, all of a sudden, all of the parts start showing themselves for what they really are and what really adds value to your organization.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can go uh forward.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, so all of that to be said, we've done this before.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's different this time, but it's always different.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we still don't even know where we're going yet with this crazy journey.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of leads me to another question, Charlie, as far as just maybe your personal opinion, because you you kind of hinted at it has as you know, maybe uh 18 months ago, a lot of us weren't worried too much about our jobs.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, oh, this is gonna help.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Very quickly, there's there's that fear has crept in as we've seen just how much AI can do and with just how fast it's going now.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now it doesn't seem I mean, you could tell me it's gonna do anything, and and I'll believe you probably at this point, because while I questioned it before, I don't question it now.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems like it's gonna go one of two directions.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Either we're gonna figure out how to maintain control as organizations and people, and we're gonna be the ones that guide this in the right way.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: The other side is it's gonna continue going supersonic fast, jobs are gonna be lost, we're all gonna be just scratching our heads going, what the heck just happened?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And is there a I mean, just for you, do you have a fear of that as well?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can all continue to chip away and and do our best job and we're trying to stay ahead of it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it just seems like the more people I talk to, the more and more, for lack of a better term, they're just that that fear and being scared a little bit of what's coming and trying to figure out how to how to plan for it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, isn't it isn't it amazing that now that we have all of the information available to us, like really available at our fingertips, now we're that makes us scared.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the more, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but the truth is jobs are gonna be lost.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I can't lie about that.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is tasks, but it's now enough tasks that could make up a job, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so is that really the job you wanted in the first place?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not, but it was you were making a living.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the the fact is we are going to have to iterate, evolve quicker than we've ever had to.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've always had to, right?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: We you weren't gonna get away without using email at some point, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't gonna stick with the landline.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you have to embrace not just AI, but the future jobs.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so if you think of it, there's there's basically four ways we add value with AI.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: First is the one that we are scared about, which is efficiency.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's do the same thing, uh, get the same result, but with a lot less.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's replacement, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's what people are worried about.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: If we're using AI to do the exact same result, you don't need me anymore.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a problem.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is uh, Chris, you have a job, you're doing it at 40 hours a week, you can't do any more.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But if I give you AI, you're now doubling your output, right?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be productivity.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: The third goes to this idea of redesign, and redesign creates new tasks, new opportunities for jobs.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then the fourth is creating new industries, new professions at rates that we don't even understand.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: There was no such thing as AI engineer just a few years ago, and now I'm hiring them, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: We are gonna get to a point where token optimization is gonna be a job.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so we're getting all of this.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're gonna have to be educated, you're gonna have to keep up, and it's not going to be a perfect line of one job lost, one job gained.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it might be right now, let's say uh 20 jobs lost, 10 jobs gained, and then it's gonna be 30 jobs gained, 10 jobs lost.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's going to be that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna hurt probably a little bit in the next couple of years for specific industries.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like I almost think I like to say it this way.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: What if we went back to being human?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I know that's I say that in the book.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but I really mean that.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were we ever meant to do data entry?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Were we meant to answer emails?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like that's what I'm doing 90% of my job these days, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what if I instead had coffee with people or I called them up?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, and so I say that, and that's the polyannic view of it, but what if that was true?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: What if we got back to, okay, what's my value?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And my value is as a human, not as a tool for my computer.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and so what jobs then are there?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I focusing on AI strategy instead of development?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that's where my value is right now.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and and so then I I start reframing the way I think of myself.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think of myself as a trusted partner, not as a a person for hire, you know, to build you a model.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to go along with you on a journey.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So so you have to reframe the way you think of yourself and your capability, then you'll keep up.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, change is hard, plain and simple, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore there's fear.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, those are great points.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're right.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I think the scariest part is that we're we've been used to change, just not as fast as what we're gonna have to change moving forward.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if if there's any group that's better equipped for that, we've all kind of learned to do that at this point.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that becomes a norm and we can figure that out.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I love your I love the point you just made about like being human again, because I think about that all the time.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, where I thrive personally, I'm thinking to myself here is I love talking with people.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love helping people, I like connecting people.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that if I'm always just looking at email and and looking at technology and not being out there, you know, trying to be positive and and do something positive for other people.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that thought of it because it does seem too that a lot of people are almost kind of they they're craving that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like people are trying to push technology away a little bit to get back to being human.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where there's kind of a little bit of stress because you you want to be human, but you feel like you've got to use AI and technology to keep up with people.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in that kind of gray zone now, trying to find that balance, which I've had some really great conversations on the podcast recently about that, is trying to figure out the best way to strategize and find that balance in your own life.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it is fascinating, just you used to kind of could project maybe what things would look like in two, five, even 10 years.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was by saying if someone asks you what's what's it gonna look like in a year, you're like, man, I have no idea.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the scary part.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: We used to be able to, in a business, do a three to five year projection.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can barely do six months.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: In my in our personal lives, we knew if we got a degree that led to a job, and then by the age of 30, I should be making a certain amount.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can buy a house.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now all of that is off the table.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that I think has been the issue.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: But so what we just what you just said, like about the human component, the only way for you to be that for yourself is honestly to be intentional about that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and he and so that's why that's where I go to being strategic.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you can be strategic as a company.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't you be strategic as a person?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I know I have this in my book about how I go through and how I created my strategy based on conversations with my dad before he passed.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is dumb.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I going just spending everything to do work when all I really want to do is hang out with my dogs, which I've got two of them right now at my feet.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go and spend time with my kids.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I made my personal strategy about creating better experiences and deeper connections while remaining genuine and authentic.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I now how can I enhance that with artificial intelligence?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then it becomes obvious.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I take anything that's mundane, get it out of my life so I can spend more time with my wife.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I just got back from two weeks in Italy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never done that in the past.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying I I still had a hard time not doing work, but I'm trying, right?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have a mission of deeper connections and better experiences.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And while I'm sitting in Venice, is it really, should I really be sitting on my computer?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did it a little bit, but I was like, I didn't even, I even put my phone down and just looked around and experienced it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, so that intentionality, that's how you become human.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to force yourself, you have to write the statement, create your own pillars, deeper connections, better uh experiences, genuine, authentic.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can I remember that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I say them every day.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I'm about ready to use something new in AI, I think, does that lead to my strategic objectives?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I'm starting out.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that's always going to be my strategic objectives, but that's what it is today.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps me get grounded.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what it really does is what you just said, it makes me more human again.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think people need to hear that message more than than they are right now.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I'm so glad you said that because I had just and I can't remember who the guest was, but it was actually on Joe Rogan about three weeks ago.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: There was a conversation and there was an individual talking about how everyone is kind of living in this fear right now, and rightfully so.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking about yourself, your job, but there's so many positives to this as well.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And just like you said, it can if you can make this efficient for you intentionally, you can free up time to go do those things you want to do.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of being afraid, how can we optimize this properly to be able to go on a two-week vacation?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of it's just trying to flip the mind switch a little bit and make it work for you while also being intentional of what you want to accomplish, and people are just gonna have to go about it in a different type of way.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you just shared that specific message because I did hear that recently, and it was a it was a technology guy, I can't I'll think of his name, but he was talking about just all the amazing things in the in the healthcare and and and all the things that can improve people's lives, and we just don't hear that message enough.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: We just hear the fights going on of big, you know, AI companies trying to do this and that, and and people, you know, again, the job stuff is what's broadcasted, but there is so many good things about this as well.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've just got to, as humans, figure out how to implement it properly to where it can enhance our lives instead of being so worried about it uh diminishing us as humans in our lives.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I what you said, I I love that you just shared that message, Charlie.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and the only way to do that is to take a step back.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and unfortunately, we only take a step back when we've been knocked down.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: We lose our job, we we're we're not happy, you know.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: We somebody passes in our life.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: We don't normally just say, I'm gonna take a chance to say, who am I really?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and you don't have to get all in on every single AI tool out there.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: You really don't.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I would love you to, and it's fun, but Honestly, the best thing you can do is go hang out with your friends you haven't hung out with in a few months, years.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have a ping pong group.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bunch of techies.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: We are the biggest nerds ever.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when we get together to play ping pong, it's like we we realize we found our tribe.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no better feeling.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were we had one last week and everybody's goofing off.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm taking a video going, this is this is why we live.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I you gotta have that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, at my age, we get really used to not having that.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the loneliness comes.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's where all of that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And Chris, I'll tell you, I'm becoming more of a psychiatrist than I am an AI strategist this day because that's what matters most is I'll get into meetings with CEOs and I I can see the fear in their eyes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can also see that they're afraid of people knowing that they're not keeping up.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and I even will say to them, I'm giving you permission not to keep up.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go home, enjoy your life.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don't stay here trying to learn something that's not your area of expertise.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Rely on your team and be okay with being humble about it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and, you know, and it's it's just it's an interesting time where when we fear things, we go off rails.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's what creates chaos.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, I've got to, uh, you know, I don't know what the jobs are gonna be like in two years, so I got to get everything today.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or just realize there's gonna be a job if you think about it in a way where you always are doing things where you know, you don't have to love it, but if you're good at it, you're gonna love it, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's where love comes for your profession.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I continually think, what do I love to do?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're you're seeing it right now.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's this, it's it's get on a soapbox and and say silly things.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And but I think I'm humble enough to to take that approach.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Chris, I gotta, you know, we're gonna have to figure out what is your AI strategy for you personally as a a younger guy than me, you know, and again, and have a slogan.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've got this one.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's pretty simple.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just want time to pet my dog.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want AI to help me get time back.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what that really means is not that I'm getting time back in my day.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get time back.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: I get this burden of I can actually think again because I don't have all these little things in the way.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that I'm spending less time at work.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just spending better time at work.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think maybe that's what happens in all of this is the pendulum swings a little bit because we have all gotten to a point where it just seems like we're work, work, work, gotta keep up, gotta keep up.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of again, I've had some really great guests on recently too, where we talk about just staying curious.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the best thing that the best tool you can have to stay relevant, no matter where this goes, is continually just being open to learning new things, being open to trying new things, absolutely around people, talking.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the best thing you can do as this thing progresses, is because if you do, if you do silo yourself and and then you don't have friends and you kind of just uh do your own thing, you quickly lose reality of what's going on, you you shut yourself off from new things, and it's just harder to get places.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you're talking about motto, you know, stay curious, a Ted Lasso, you know, is where I try to implement that a lot.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people seem to use that, which is really cool how powerful that one episode has been with people.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: But no, and I'm I'm I I think we're gonna have to have another discussion because that you really challenged me.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think I know where my kind of strategy is and what my vision for myself is, but I'm gonna be intentional about that question and actually think about that this week and almost probably put that in front of me to make sure I stay honed in on it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've got a couple of worksheets I just gave to our new incoming interns at LBMC, and it's a way to create your own personal.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll send that to you because what you want is you want to say what you're going to do and then how you're gonna remain yourself.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I am going to have deeper personal experiences and connections.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's what I'm gonna do while remaining genuine and authentic.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: It could be while remaining humble and informal or whatever.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that really goes to how I use it to write for me, is really where that part comes in.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think that's really important to set that.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll definitely send you that stuff after here.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll love I'll love sitting down and working on that with intentionality and seeing what I come up with and seeing what I can focus on.
• 26:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie, one last question for you.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh man, this has been awesome.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I thank you.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before I even ask it, I think people are going to enjoy that listening to this, and also I hope it leads people to thinking a little bit differently to where they can enhance themselves through this transition instead of bogging down with that negative weight that a lot of people seem to be carrying.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is a very positive conversation.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure and state that.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: But Charlie, I ask everyone who comes on the podcast this question, just from a books for guys standpoint.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always curious what people are into, but I would love to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you, personally or professionally, and what's a book that you love to recommend to others?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will say this.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot how much I liked biographies.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I just read Walt Disney's one, and it's the old school one, and it goes through everything, and I just loved every minute of it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the best way to be a better self is to read about others.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that that's the one thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, I think it's you that gave me my new book.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: QBQ.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh question behind the question is Don Miller.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: We after our last conversation, you told me that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now I've bought copies for my entire team and I'm gonna be handing those out.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's my new book to hand out, other than, of course, you know, you gotta, I still gotta hand out my book, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but I I would say that is the one that I, you know, I really I like where it focused on the individual at any level.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody should have that mentality.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just had to make sure that when I was giving it to people, I'm not like, by the way, this isn't because you don't have accountability.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that I want, I think it's a great reminder.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it is one of those books you could read at least once a year.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's another thing I'm I'm liking is you know, my book, I was like, oh my God, it's it's thin.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's only people are gonna finish it in three to four hours.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been the best, biggest compliment I've gotten.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so having another book that I know I can actually read while on a plane or something like that, and that's what that uh question behind the question, the author again is John Miller.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: John Miller, there we go.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually got it on my desk.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's not because of this conversation today, but uh, I I do think that that's that's my go-to now.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because all the other ones are get rich quit.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like I don't want that.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just want good, solid, this is the right thing to do because you're a good human.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what that book does.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a big fan.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you mentioned that too.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I and you talked about your book.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, I don't hate long books, but I love the ones that pack a punch with impact in in the time I read it, and I want to get things immediately and I want to start implementing things.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it just seems like people are trying to fill pages with words a lot of times.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay, let's get to the point, let's get to the point.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a bunch of lists that didn't have to be there.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: The ones I love the most are are similar to yours.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it it packs a punch, it gives you all the information, it's quality reading, things I can can use and and and put into my daily life and practice.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love that you recommend that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that makes me happy to know I I gave a good recommendation.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, too.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I've actually I think I've read the Disney book too.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think I read it a few years ago if you're talking about Disneyland.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it goes through his it goes through Walt Disney's uh life, and you hear about Steamboat Willie all the way through um, you know, even what they went through during the uh depression and world wars and unbelievable.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and so there's so many people like that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that is that that to me is definitely interesting.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I I still love a good fantasy uh book, and I'll go through I like I like historical fiction to learn about history.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for, since I just got back from Italy, I'm looking for a couple about uh the Roman Coliseum.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, and I found I think three that are that follow like gladiators through it and and things like that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll get back to those as well.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I listen to books and uh you know that's the busy person in me, but and I like to run, so I'll listen to a book while I run.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I but I uh I definitely have gone through my my fair share.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, audio books count, you know.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, good, good.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You want to get that content in, definitely recommend it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: But no, Charlie, thank you again for taking the time to come on here and obviously to talk about your book, AI Reimagin.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: We've got that on the Books for Guys website, and we'll put it in the show notes for everyone who's interested in purchasing it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope there's a lot of people that are interested, and I hope they reach out to you and let you know how much it's meant to them and how they're applying it to their life or their profession.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Charlie, man, keep keep sharing the message you are.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we're gonna have to have another conversation within the next six to 12 months as things continue to progress and would love to keep hearing what you're seeing and and what the message you're sharing out there.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: But no, man, this has been a pleasure.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate the opportunity and really enjoyed this conversation.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And since we do live in the same town, we're gonna have to take that human approach, and the next time we get together, we'll have to do it in person.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: We got to practice what we preach here.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Charlie.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.