Latest / Our Community, Our Mission / Ep #313- Spiritual Wellness and Mental Health with Mike Schoettle

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Ep #313- Spiritual Wellness and Mental Health with Mike Schoettle · Our Community, Our Mission

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Heavenly Father, we just thank you so much for today, and we thank you for this time that we can just gather, that we can talk about something that is so important and uh crucial for us, not only as an organization, but Lord, just something that we all personally need to focus on.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, I just thank you for this time.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I ask that you would just fill our conversations today.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: We thank you and we love you.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's in your strong and holy name that I pray in the name of Jesus.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for our community, our mission, a podcast of the Topeka Rescue Mission here on May 12th of 2026.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is episode number 313.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host today, Barry Feeker, with Lamanda Cunningham, Marion Crable, and Mike Schottel, which we're going to just include him in on right now, who is our director of spiritual wellness and discipleship.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: He needs no introduction, right?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's been on here before.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: More than once.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So y'all buckle up here because this is going to be one of those kind of podcasts.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is a morning.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So uh like we we like to do on this beautiful.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting kind of warm.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: A little too warm.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is too early.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: What what is the sweet spot here, Farm Girl?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it would be lovely.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Too much rain the other day.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: No?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Never too much rain.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're still in drought conditions.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't you that was saying too much rain.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was other people.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, it came really fast.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: So but you know, sometimes you just can't you can't look a gift horse in the mouth.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: How's that?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: How's that for a farm girl?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of thing.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: We call her Miss Albert.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it could be like in like the 70s, like 70s, 72, and then in the 40s at night.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's called the ball.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, kind of.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: See, and that's yesterday that's how I dressed.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought it was going to be in the 70s.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I wore that long, the new long sleeve shirt that we got to mention.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I got home and Amanda's like, You wore that today?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Here's the thing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was supposed to be like lower 70s.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Michael, no, it's going to be like 90s.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked at my phone and I'm like, no, it says it right.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was Elkhart, Indiana's forecast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So bless your heart.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not wearing long sleeves today.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, because it's going to be too warm.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: But it's okay.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So since we're a little confused, we're going to talk about mental health awareness month.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: But in order to uh kind of get into that, we want to uh honor the great uh efforts of the research and development department, speak of rescue mission, who's come up with those things that are very special about May 12th that are national and sometimes global.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it is N National Mental Health Provider Appreciation Day.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Say that again.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: National Mental Health Provider Appreciation Day.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's people who give out mental health, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: They provide us with mental health.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently they missed, they don't have my address.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm not getting it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, you know, the the the the the emphasis on mental health, which we're going to talk about more today, and those who actually do help people to um heal, um to be aware of like wellness and spiritual wellness, mental health wellness all woven in together, we'll talk about today.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's also um this is more of the um bet you didn't know this one.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's National Limerick Day.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Limerick Day.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: How many people knew that today?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not I.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely not.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right, now define limerick.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think it might be a short, catchy poem with a phone rhyming pattern, and often a silly or witty theme.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Who needs chat GPT when you have Lemer?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Who can read chat GTP?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: Her name is Miss Almanac Webster.
• 3:50
  unknown: There you go.
• 3:51
  unknown: There you go.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Call me Allie.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's all.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Shottle, there is a Limerick um special poem.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or Topeka Rescue Mission.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Would you happen to know what that is for today?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it is at Topeka Rescue Mission, there's plenty to do with hearts that are caring and true.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: They serve with God's grace to each life they embrace, bringing hope and hot meals too.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so thank you.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's Kim Turley.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Chat didn't help you with that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You did that on your own?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: She ain't lying.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: She phoned a friend.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: But chat's with it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: He understands TRM and things like you.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's uh National Hospital Day.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of interesting that uh Mental Health Appreciation Day, hospital day.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um Hospital Day was officially declared by former U.S.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: President Warren G.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Harding.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess he would be former with him.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the holiday was observed for the first time in May 12th, 1921.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um basically um honoring what our hospitals.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: But they did at the very end go ahead and mention the most important parts.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yes, and those were the nurses, right?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And who was the founder of modern day nursing?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Farm girl.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: But Florence Nightingale was.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: You knew her, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I knew her well.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're friends.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were friends, but she's gone.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Did you study under her?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I you know what?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: She taught her.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: She and I.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: BFF.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of you who have not heard before, Miriam is a nurse, also, amongst many other things, like the strategic development, mission.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Smart Alec, that's right.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we've All right.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all got that one figured out.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: One last one before we get into our main topic today.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that you all woke up this morning going, Man, I can't wait for this day.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that many people utilize every single day.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Lamanda, you're reading this right now.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So why are you reading this?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: You already knew this, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I just wanted to be really prepared, Barry.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now that you're really prepared, what is the special day on May 12th that people observe a lot?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it is National Odometer Day.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: Umeter day.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: And um but I guess I had kind of a Freudian slip as I was sitting here, and my heart like palpitated because I was thinking speedometer.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh we understand why you would think yes.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I haven't talked, and I'm like, great, process of elimination.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna be talking about this one.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: But this one is all about mileage, so I'm okay.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you check your speedometer a lot?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's not what we're talking about.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: That's not today.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you're running around all the time, too.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: I am.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I try not to check it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, some people will check it for you.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it depends if she's in a TRM vehicle.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Then she checks it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we do not multitask.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And no.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't lie.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if it's one of the the rescue one, two, or three.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the, what is it, rescue three?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: You think you're going like 20 miles an hour, you look down and oh, I'm going 90s.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it doesn't help because you feel like you're driving a monster truck.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because you kind of are.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: For those that aren't aware, there is a rule in regards to conduct while you're driving rescue mission vehicles since HR department is listening to this right now.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Take a note over there to see if anybody's cheating.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, National Odometer Day, not speedometer, odometer day.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're always up for a long drive.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: This time we're driving straight to Odometerville.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, you said you've been there before.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where is that located?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is that in Michigan?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a small little town between Radiator Springs and Mufflerville.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: So This reminds me of my one of my daughters had to do uh for one of her classes a paper, and it was kind of attached to her final.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: And she tells me about it last week, but she says, uh, Mom, guess what I'm writing about?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, What?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: She said, I am writing about the history of basically GPS.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, You are?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, Yeah, guess why I picked it.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, What?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, I remember a couple of years ago you were telling me that y'all used to use that thing where you like printed off directions.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Are you talking about a map?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_04: And she looks at me, she goes, Well, yeah, but you told me about something else.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, when I was learning to drive, I had to learn the map.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: My dad taught me that, but map quest had just come out in 1996, like right a couple of years before I started driving.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: So that was our thing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: You'd put it in MapQuest, you'd print out the three to five pages of directions, and it was supposed to be safe.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: You're reading a page when you're driving.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: But, anyways, uh, one of my daughters got to write, and she's titled it something about the evolution of Jeep.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: And she started with a map and map quest, and then um I told her, I said, Don't forget about Garmin.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, What?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: So she looked up a little and she was like, This is so bizarre.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: All the things that I've used in the last 20 years to drive.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and you were driving like 70 miles an hour through LA and you had that map on your steering wheel trying to figure out which exit to go.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, yes, I actually do remember that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then you hand it to Florence and she said, Turn right, turn right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what we have now.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's called GPS.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: She never told me soon enough because it was always right by the exit of the six limit freeway.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, Merriam's been to LA, by the way, y'all.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I just told my daughter, I said, you should get 100% on this because it's a lot of good history about GPS.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: So as only short time.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: As we pivot away from these very important things about today, again, uh pivot into something that's very important about this month, and is really important about every day.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, uh Mike, I think you would probably agree with this, laughter really helps.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely raises the uh the serotonin levels and everything in your brain.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just gotta laugh sometimes.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta laugh.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: You do.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of a medicine.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mike, we want to talk to you today.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh to speak of rescue mission.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you're the director of spiritual wellness and discipleship.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's National Mental Health Awareness Month.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so, two questions to start with, um, and you can answer whichever one you want.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: How does what you do here tie in with mental health and uh rescue mission with staff volunteers and guests of the rescue mission?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also what does it mean?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Spiritual wellness and discipleship, as you and I were talking before.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh spiritual wellness being the director of that means there might be a spiritual sickness.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so talk about that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so believe it or not, the Bible actually has a lot of really good references for mental health.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be uh Matthew chapter 11, verses 28 through 30.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's the famous line where Jesus is saying, Come to me all who are weary and heavy burdened, and I will give you rest.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for I am lowly and humble in spirit.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Take my yoke and learn from it, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um then you also have uh Philippians chapter 4, uh the Lord is near, don't worry about anything, but in everything through prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your requests to God, and here's the promise, and the peace that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so with being the having the spiritual wellness side of it, we do some really heavy work here.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it can be from our own past, our own traumas, to the past of guests that are coming in that some staff used to go around town with and use with.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the aspect of okay, well, the Lord has changed my life and I want what the Lord has done for me for you.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, that can really mess with us mentally because we can love them as much as we want and can, and then and then some by what the Spirit's leading us, and they don't want to hear it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't want to give up that part of their life of the substance abuse or the trauma that that they're dealing with.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it does get frustrating.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh shoot, this today's Tuesday.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yesterday, two staff came into my office just saying, This is what's going on.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am just so bothered and so heavy because these are people that I care about.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just said there's nothing you can do.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: What the Lord tells us is that we are throwing seed and the seed is going to land, and the weeds are going to choke out the seeds, birds are gonna pick up the seeds, but just keep throwing the seeds planting, saying, This is what the Lord did for me, this is what my life looks like now.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it might not be through you that the Lord is working, but it could be.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like that is doing something.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not taking it to the finish line necessarily because we don't change anybody.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: But we can be an instrument in their change to help them.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um gosh, this just opens up so many different questions.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Lamanda, you got something.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, I think as we kind of dive into um mental health overall, um, mental illness, the spiritual side, the science side, one thing that I was thinking about last night is I think it's important to start with the definition.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um and gosh, there is um, you know, our um local chapter of NAMI based here in Topeka, but um they also have their national website, and it is full of resources, definitions.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of times we talk in acronyms that can be confusing when we're talking about mental health and all of that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I just wanted to briefly read.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI, in case we reference that later on, they define mental health um, which includes our emotional, psychological, and social well-being, um, that our mental health affects how we feel, we think, and we act.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and just talking about how our overall health is impacted because of stress, relationships, choices, all of those kinds of things.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so when we think about mental health being our emotional, our psychological, and our social well-being, which then impacts how we think, how we feel, um, how we act and and process and stuff, I think those are kind of the parameters from this um definition, the the lens that we look at.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: What is difficult sometimes is trying to keep the scripture and the faith side as foundation, um, yet also realize that God has blessed us as a society with knowledge of the science piece of our bodies, um, our brains and our hearts and the spiritual side being the soul.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I'm I'm glad we're talking about this, but I almost feel like we need like part one, part two, part three, part four, because it is so much.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I just hope that today um we really talk about the fact that it's okay to not be okay.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um I feel like for our not just staff with TRM and not just our partners and and some of the people that are closely related to us, I think we're seeing this movement um locally and hopefully um a bigger movement, but where we start really talking about how we feel or the struggles we have, and sometimes um we're not okay.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, sometimes we're processing loss, sometimes we're just exhausted, and that that changes the way that we think.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um sometimes this life doesn't make sense, and I think that there is sometimes still a stigma a little bit about well, don't talk about those things.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: You might look negative, you might look weak, you people might think you're crazy, like there's negative associations that belong with talking about not being okay.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: What I think is I think the Lord can do a lot with us when not only are we talking to him about what's not okay, but when we also have our village around us of people that we can trust and that want to love us, that will pray for us, um, and being able to be honest with the things that are not okay that we're handling.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: What I feel like we are motivated here at TRM is we recognize there are people not okay, and a lot of those same people that aren't okay don't have the village.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: And TRM, I think we are on fire to find the people who aren't okay and who aren't connected to others helping them in the not okay.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then even more so when we see that they aren't connected to the father, and that is what we strive every day to do is to understand as much as we can about mental health, mental illness, healing, all of that from the science side and social determinants of health and all of these factors, yet use the transformation that comes spiritually because of the father and bridge those so that people's lives can be touched and go from um outcast, hopelessness, the addict that's talking to himself, those kinds of things.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um and sometimes that's just difficult to even try to talk about because not everything is so clear-cut.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well said.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh had a um text message from a person that I know.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's gone through a lot of trauma in their life.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they had been in church and then stopped going to church and were thinking about going back to church, and the church that they were going to, they heard what they had heard before, Jesus will fix everything.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um they asked me the hard question, will Jesus fix everything?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so um I won't tell you how I answered that, but I would like to bring up the the the big question here for any of us to talk about here.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: There seems to be, and there has been for a very long time, this dichotomy or this division between mental health and faith.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that uh that dichotomy is that you either go one way or the other, but you don't really see the balance in them.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um in some situations, people who um are attempting to walk with the Father through Jesus Christ are told to throw away the medicine, don't go to the therapist, don't do this, that, and the other thing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And on the other hand, some people who go that route are told that faith thing is going to mess you up.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's the dichotomy.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: How do we balance that that that dichotomy of that division between those and uh Mike uh in the scriptures that you were reading, there was some indication there that Jesus is saying, I am the way.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But he's also addressing the mental health piece of this.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, throwing that out.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's a complicated deal here.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I can, you know, back many years ago when Miriam and Florence Nightingale and I were running around together, there was a uh opinion or a uh a thought here of the Topeka Rescue Mission.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: You do not intersect with mental health services.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't do it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um, having come out of that background before I came to the rescue mission, I said, why not?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there were some real problems with that to start out with.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't know that today with the intersections.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: But still, by and large, there are people on the mental health side that see faith as a problem, and people on the faith side see mental health interventions as a problem.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do you address that?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe that's the million-dollar question.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think you just do it, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you if you believe that God created everything, he also created these resources.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't think there has to be it's either or but rather this and that, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you make that happen?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, Barry.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think people just have to have an understanding that you know there are people that believe that you shouldn't go to medical doctors either.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you can be really hard line or something on something, or you can seek the Lord, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can seek the Lord for guidance and discernment and know that there are resources that He has placed in this world for us that will help us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Walk through each day.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't take his power away because he is the creator.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like if you don't I've never quite understood this hard line between you either have to do this or that, that you can't do both, that the Lord can't be utilizing others or other things to help you while you also are dependent on him.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think a hard line has developed?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: What where did that come from?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why has there been a division in regards to that in some people's minds?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: I I kind of think that it's one of those things sometimes when you don't really know, we're not okay with the not knowing.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes you just have to sit in not knowing or maybe uncomfortableness, that kind of thing, whether it's a topic or a season.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think over time if I can get a little controversial, we'll just say religious leaders, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: In general.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes we want to be so definite on things that maybe we really should be okay with it not being deaf, you know, definite.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: Definite.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like we don't know.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to say I'm not sure about that.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I've even tried to say it is.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: But I think sometimes it is okay for us, even on the face side, the religion side, to say there are things that we are not going to know the side of heaven.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: And quite frankly, I don't want to spend my time quarreling with someone else to try to prove something that we really aren't sure about.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: But some people feel really feel like they are sure and won't stop at that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that over time you've got extremes that people are uncomfortable with topics.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so then they cling so tightly, whether that's the science side and there's no God, and I'm going to, you know, take this to my grave.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then on the faith side, the religion side, nope, we know this about scripture and we know this, and almost Bible thump.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that I just don't, when you look at Jesus' ministry and how he conducted himself and his responses to everyone from the woman at the well to the man with leprosy to the Pharisees to whoever, his responses were very different sometimes than what we try to do as faith leaders.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so going back to your original question, um, what can we do about this line?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think the first thing we can do is not avoid talking about it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so, for instance, um, just had a conversation maybe a week or two ago and was talking with this gal, and she asked me, she said, Can I ask you a few questions about yourself personally?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, sure.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, Um, do you participate in therapy?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, I do.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: And her response to me was, and you lead a ministry.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Yes.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, I feel like there's just such this stigma that if you lead a ministry, you are healthy and you don't need therapy.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: Or you lead a ministry and so you need to trust the Lord to help you with all of these things.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: Precisely.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: My response was, I've chosen um a therapy place that allows my faith to be a part of the science.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I talked openly about that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I had to have a place where I didn't go, well, she shouldn't be asking me my thoughts.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I had to have the heart where I was like not offended, right, to have this conversation.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but then she also had to have the courage to ask me because she had an assumption that if we're ministry leaders, X, Y, Z, and I needed her to know, like, no, I do that because um a lot of times the enemy will attack me through thoughts and all of this.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: And the Lord has provided me with a wonderful Christian therapist that allows me to be able in a confidential space discuss the things that are impacting the way that I perceive things and the way that I feel.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_04: And that therapist helps guide me with scripture, with prayer, and all of this.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's so interwoven.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that matters.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: See, Laman, I think what you just revealed is extremely healthy for a lot of people to hear because to the question that this person asked you, ministry leader in therapy, question mark.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of times that people won't seek out help, whatever it is, um, all the way from a flat tire to a therapist.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because of pride.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also, shame.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow we've attached in so many ways, if you have a mental health challenge, um, that you should feel less, or that you are not as um capable, or um can't be trusted, or the list goes on and on and on.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so there has been the stigma of shame put on that, which if we know much about Christianity and leadership, when people in leadership do not address their challenges, oftentimes they make some really bad decisions.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so back to you, Mike.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Spiritual wellness means that there is an antithesis of that, which means sickness.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about spiritual sickness and what your position is doing at Topeka Rescue Mission to address the wellness piece of that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think you really hit the nail on it on its head because when things go on in a ministry and things go unchecked, it's like not checking your oil in your car.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Your and order day.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get your tires rotated, or you're not getting new tires.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're realizing that your tires are bald.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's going to happen while you're going on the highway to Kansas City?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to blow a tire, you're going to wipe out, and you could very well injure yourself and the cars that are all around you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So with the first hand trauma or the second hand trauma that occurs here, it it weighs on you.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in personal trauma or the trauma that you absorb from somebody else's trauma that you're going to be able to do, because they're sharing it, it will weigh on you.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it messes with you.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that I think too is where in 2 Corinthians, when when Paul is writing to the church in Corinth to take your thoughts captive, you know, it's it's every proud thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the knowledge of God, things we have medicine that is given to us.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I always when I I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder when I was 12 years old.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great, wonderful disorder to have.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love it so much.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think brothers love it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: Hate it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: I was gonna say, he hates it.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_04: I love that he has it because it's a glorious burden.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: There it is.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a lot of um and I can I say something about that?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: I guess I should have asked you off the mic, but it's fine.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um one thing that I love about my relationship with Mike is we we know there is a serious component about his OCD.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: We know that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so we don't make light of that because there are challenges he has with the OCD.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: However, he knows that I also have his back when the um downfalls of that hinder things.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: The other side of it is it also has made us so close because he is open about it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: And that has allowed me to know how to shepherd him when there might be something coming up with his job that could trigger that or that could be friction with it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm able to check on him in such an intentional way and shepherd him differently through certain challenges because he's open with me on that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, perfect example, he was moving offices.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: Can we just have a moment?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Mike is very particular about his office and placements of items and how it looks and smells and plants and and so Mike was one of the first people I talked to when I knew there was a potential of him moving.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I was able to say, What time frame do you want?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: Is there certain times of the month that's better because he does a lot of writing?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was able to really go, Mike, what is going to help you with this?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: He went and saw the space.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: He went, I mean, we just did things.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_04: The other side of it, I guess I drove him nuts because I kept checking in with him.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: He looked at me, he goes, I'm telling you, I'm fine.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: I am very excited about this.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: You really can't quit mama henning me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're not moving when I'm going to be writing.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like record scratch.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, you're moving while you're writing.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ow.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that that is such a beautiful example because Mike didn't have to tell me that when I met him a couple of years ago about, hey, I really have this, and sometimes it's great, and it keeps me organized and I'm thorough, but it also makes me a hot mess at times when certain things do that.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you just mentioned there is the the liability of the different things that happen to us in life and things we care around, and also the the asset of it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Also, he's a pretty detailed guy.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that like my parents really have noticed, and I I am incredibly perceptive.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can read people 90% of the time.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like the first read that I get, it's like, yep, there it is.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So don't talk about anybody in this room.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I will not.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I was afraid when I was when I was diagnosed, and my parents did a wonderful job not telling me that I was diagnosed.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just went to a Christian therapist and then went to another uh secular therapist, and both of them checked out.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Michael has obsessive compulsive disorder.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so they didn't tell me when I was 12.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until I was 18 years old that I was working on my uh I was going to major in psychology.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna double major in ministry and psychology, and I'm going through the DSM five, or the four might have been the four at that time, and obsessive compulsive disorder.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was check, check, check, check, check all of the all of the the boxes.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: All the indicators pointed to if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, and it waddles like a duck, it's a duck.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So how did that hit you when you saw that they'd written a book about you?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: It they didn't get they didn't get my permission.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was I was in Indiana and I FaceTimed my parents, and I'm like, or I Skyped, FaceTime didn't exist yet.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I said, hey, this is what's going on, and I'm kind of realizing this.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is this true?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yes.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: But we didn't want to tell you because we didn't want you to obsess about it and use it as a crutch.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then it was like, okay, well, I can notice, I can notice the things, my friends can notice the things.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's the next step?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started going to therapy, and then they uh a very good Christian therapist said, You should probably be medicated.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, medication, heck no.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing that, I'm not gonna take it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's not biblical.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because cast all your cares upon the Lord for He cares for you.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let your prayers and petitions and thanksgiving be made known to God, and all the peace that surpasses all understanding will calm your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus, and they will guard it.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's why.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: But but then I said to one of my mentors who I talk to every single, almost every single Monday, he said, Mike, this is your brain.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: The serotonin's completely off.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what would you do if you had diabetes and your insulin is completely off?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, you'd take insulin.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Okay, so is a diabetic taking insulin, is that not a good if they're a Christian diabetic?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are they not Christian enough?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have enough faith to make their insulin levels raise or lower?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then what makes you think that your serotonin levels are untouchable by medication?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord has put these things in people's minds and in their hearts.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think penicillin was found?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: You got an ear infection?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's just blow some smoke in your ear and not give you any amoxicillin.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Things have been put in place, and this is just kind of veering now to this, and I have this quote right here, and I have the little picture drawn too in my journal.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful, beautiful comic strip.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Calvin and Hobbes.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bill Watterson wrote it from 1980 or the 1980s into the 1990s, but this little blurb is 30 years old, almost 30 years old, and a six quote, six-year-old unquote, child is saying this in the comic strip.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: We seem to understand the value of oil, timber, minerals, and housing, but not the value of unspoiled beauty, wildlife, solitude, and spiritual renewal.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: We focus on the things that are so material to us that if we don't focus on the things that can raise the serotonin levels or the things that actually need to be renewed in getting the medication or going to the therapy, we're lost.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, do I still the things that when the staff comes or when guests come and talk about how the quickest way that they could get high is to inject directly into their neck.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that anybody should hear.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's things that we see that nobody should see.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just supposed to bottle that up.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supposed to just pray to the Lord that He's going to take those images out of my mind.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, don't go talk to a Christian therapist because, you know, that's gonna mess you up.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have to go talk to my Christian therapist because he puts things into perspective that I am totally blind at.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have no idea how to process it.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then I go to him and I'm like, it's that obvious.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: How did I not see that?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's why you gotta go.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're supposed to bear one another's burdens.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to be there for one another.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're a body.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: A Christian therapist needs to have a unique understanding, though.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that also isn't just therapeutic techniques, but also is biblical in regards to understanding and how you balance those.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mike, the scripture that you had quoted before pretty much says Jesus can do it all.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, and you were rolling with that, and yet you also had somebody talk to you about the value of addressing your um mental health challenges with medication.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do you reconcile that?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can Jesus do it at all?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can he heal?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but sometimes the healing isn't this side of heaven.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: The piece that surpasses all understanding is that I'm okay.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay that I'm even anxious right now for crying out loud.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always anxious.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like the incredible hulk, I'm always angry.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am okay that for the rest of my living life here on Earth.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm anxious.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the piece that surpasses all my understanding is that when I take my last breath here and take my first breath in eternity, there's not gonna be an anxious thought.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's not going to be I'm not gonna be picking, literally just did I'm picking at my nails while I'm talking.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be doing that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be worried, I'm not gonna be lashing out irrationally because I have an irrational fear that if I don't fill up my car with the right amount of gas and the gallons don't match the 25 cents with the and it's not divisible by a quarter, it's gonna be the end of the world.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: This side of heaven, I'm okay that I'm not okay.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think, Barry, in so many ways that when we think about healing, I think we think things go away.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: But when I think about the opportunity because of what Mike faces or what any of us face, how he then can relate and share Jesus with people that experience the same things, he can do that in a really different kind of way than I could, for instance, because I don't experience that kind of anxiety that Mike experiences.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm talking with someone and sharing Christ, I can't relate to them the same way, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't experience what they do.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can share and I can be genuine and the Lord can use me in any way he's going to.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: But think how, because Mike isn't, in our definition, healed from the things that he experiences, how he then is able to more effectively relate to other people that experience the same things.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when we think, and I go back to, I'm a big proponent of the chosen.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: And while the situation in there with one of the disciples is a physical situation, here is Jesus who is healing all these people.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: And now he's sending the disciples out two by two to heal people, but he did not heal that disciple of his physical um disability.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he had this very powerful conversation that talked exactly about what Mike did, that there will be a time when you are fully healed.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: But now the things you will be able to do are more than you could ever imagine because you are still facing these kinds of challenges.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think our definition or our perspective that healing means it takes something all the way away is maybe off.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um scripture that came to my mind, Mike, as you were talking and Miriam used as well.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: 1 Peter 4 13, instead, be very glad for these trials make you partners with Christ in his suffering, so that you will have the wonderful joy of seeing his glory when it is revealed to all the world.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so we suffer as Christ suffers in order that people will see Christ in the suffering.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's um a curse and a gift, right?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: A curse and a gift.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a glorious burden.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And a glorious burden because God can use these things.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we so much believed in working and helping and including people with lived experiences.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: They say that's a new term for people who used to be homeless, okay?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so, or currently are, or addicted, or whatever the case might be, as long as they have purposed that they want to follow Christ and that they want to address some things that maybe were bad behaviors.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't bring somebody in that brings their meth with them uh that can adversely affect someone else.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: But somebody who's been there, done that, understands that, just like you, Mike, understand anxiety, right?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: You have a greater empathy for people, and God has given you the gift of reading people who have anxiety.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: I put my pen down as you were talking because I click my pen all the time.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've been called out on this podcast for clicking my pen.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it helps stimulate the brain to think.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pen if you if you don't uh actually it's called uh uh vision elite unibald.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can get them at Office Max.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, to help you do podcasts.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: But uh but yeah, we we I think the the point here is that we have bought into a deception, and that is if you have a problem, you should be ashamed.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that shame then will keep you under wraps, not dealing with your stuff, and you're not as effective for the kingdom of God.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Every single one of the disciples that we read about that Jesus called had issues.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: They had issues.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Every single person that you read about in the scripture, even King David, man after God's own heart.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: What a mess.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: What a mess.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just go into Chronicles and Samuel and 2 Samuel and read about all the mess, you know, and and and and and and I was reading in 2 Samuel this morning when his son, who had Betrayed him by the name of Absalom and basically tried to steal the kingdom from him and was actually trying to get his own dad killed and got a whole bunch of people to follow him.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: He uh ended up uh um dying.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absalom did.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um David mourned for him.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it was his kid.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: But to the degree he mourned that somebody came to him, a prophet, said, You are so sad about this one son, and everybody that was following you thinks you hate them and love the one that was trying to kill you.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: David was a little messed up at this point, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so this person said to the king, he said, Get off your can and get out there and do your job.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we have to have people in our lives say, get off the can or your can and get out there and do your job.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes, even though we empathize with people, we have to press them forward to something better, right?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about that in your job.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um the thing the the first thing that comes to mind was one of the conversations that I have had recently of the of the past that some of the employees have of using and that the Lord has changed them and that they are completely free from the substance abuse, but then there's guests that come in and they see that brokenness too.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And almost kind of like a coming in and being like, I don't know what to do.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am so lost at am I doing my job right?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it just goes back to the sowing the seeds.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you want you want to come into my office, sit down and talk, and you like I give you some really empowering speech of this is what the Lord has planned for them, and this is what can happen for them, and you know, go out there and just get a big hoo-rah kind of uh uh speech, but that's not what it is, and it it it it was just a look, I hear you and I understand that you're frustrated, but there's only one thing that we were told to do, and we were told to go out and we were told to make disciples, and what you are doing is you are teaching this person and showing this person that your life has been changed, and it's all the work of the Holy Spirit that's doing it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're just a vessel.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: You want a superpower, you want like some of Mike's secret stuff that I that I learned from all that I'm saying is that you're sowing seeds, keep throwing the seeds, and and then I brought it up too.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Are there people around you when you're interacting with with these guests?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I said, Okay, well, staff or guests?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, both.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, the interaction that you're having with this individual, other people are seeing how you're interacting with this individual.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it isn't this individual that it's their time to be healed.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: What you're doing is you are just throwing the seed hoping that there's germination.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a guest that is watching how you are interacting, they want to know more.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: They then start going to chapel, or they then start coming to you because they saw how you were handling this situation with another guest.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's Yeah.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think this this coming to terms with planting seeds that you never see the results from is difficult.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because then I think sometimes it causes us to question, am I not doing something right?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yet it's not about us, really.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about the Lord and the Lord and his timing and all of those things that can just frustrate me to no end, that it's his timing and not my timing.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And wouldn't I be better if you could just let me see the impact that I'm having?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not really what this is about, because then it becomes about me and not glorifying the Lord.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: And in the work that I think we do, particularly probably other places too, but it seems so very, very obvious here at TRM that the seeds we plant, we may never ever see come to fruition.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: We may never hear that it's come to fruition.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think about one particular person that has been in and out of the mission so many times and truly had so many wonderful things.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: He was employed here.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: It took him getting away from here to really heal.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that we may never actually get to visually see his healing, even though we all know we made a difference, right?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: We made a difference, but we have to kind of release this feeling of control that if I don't see it, I didn't do it well, or it didn't happen, you know.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that if we can stay focused on who's really the power behind everything that happens, it's not about what I do.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: He may use me, but this is all glory to God.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: He is the one that's making these things happen.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just have to be okay with not seeing it or knowing that I'm making a difference.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: We get to intersect the journey of a number of people.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: We don't create the journey, we don't finish the journey for them.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're all on our own journey.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Laman, before we close today, um, as CEO of Topeka Rescue Mission, as just a person, third days you probably want to pull the cover over your head and not get out of bed.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: But yet, you keep coming back.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about the balance between the practical challenges of life, whether they be on Facebook or whether they be at a uh running a ministry or whether they be a family, being a mom, and then being the King David, so to speak, here that just wants to mourn.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do you do it?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think the season I'm in right now, and I don't know if this is going to be a a popular received popularly or not, but um I think we need to quit talking about balance.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we need to be talking more about anchorage.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know what that looks like, but since you're asking me kind of personal, you know, I I I do.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: I juggle uh being a wife and a mom and sports schedules, and all of the kids have different needs, and there is sickness, and usually it's more than one of us at one time, and um we still also have you know financial needs and stuff breaks.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: So there is all of these things.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then there are you know being on call 24-7, and even when you don't get calls, um there's a part of you that's just so connected to TRM, even when you're not at TRM.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_04: So there's definitely this pull.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think for the first several years of being um here at the Rescue Mission and CEO, I was reading stuff and really was trying to get to this place of finding balance.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, how do you balance if you know you've got a lot personal?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: How do you back off a little bit professional?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: If you've got a lot professional, what some things may be that you could do differently personal.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and then realizing trying to be organized and staying ahead of things so that if you do need to make changes in your schedule, you can be proactive.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we can giggle about that one.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that there were all these things that I was trying to do that really sound good and are probably helpful, but the season of life I'm in, one with the Lord, and I think maybe just the spiritual maturity is I think pairing being in ministry, being a nonprofit, and just life in general that is full of brokenness and blessings, there really is not a balance.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think as CEO, there there definitely isn't.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_04: When you're 24-7, how do you balance?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_04: How do you balance a 24-7 on call?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_04: You don't.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: What I think the Lord is asking me is regardless of how unbalanced something is, are you anchored?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: And um I wish I could give like some fancy answer where I'm like, yep, because I know the scriptures and I know God's character and XYZ.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: But quite frankly, sometimes being anchored is truly like being on your knees saying, God, none of this makes sense, and none of this feels good.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm hurting for this person, and I'm hurting for this department, I'm hurting for like it is it is messy.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_04: And if anybody saw some of that that I do with the Lord, it would look anything but beautiful, right?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: In in what we know and what we think.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I'm also so grateful because when you know that department is down three people and you know they're tired, you know they're worn out.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: In the last um 72 hours, Barry, we had somebody laid out in the grass, naked.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: And somebody came to the front desk and said, Hey, I think somebody's really struggling out on the grass.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_04: So our guys go out and this person's experiencing an overdose.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: And so one of the staff members is there trying to cover him up.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: The other one goes and runs and gets the Narcan and comes out and administers the Narcan, and the person comes to.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_04: So they they report that to me immediately, and I was driving, and I just started to cry.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: And not only did I cry because we often don't talk enough, but addiction, whether it's alcoholism or or drug, that is classified as a mental illness, but we don't talk about that enough.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: However, my heart broke for this individual experiencing this overdose, and then my heart hurt for our staff who's seeing it, and you know, there's witnesses around and all of that.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: But then in the midst of this, there was this epiphany that I had that, and I've not even been able to tell him this yet, but the person that administered Narcan just came to us a couple of years ago in a very broken state.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: His life wasn't balanced, his life wasn't anchored.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not sure he would say now as a staff member his life is balanced, because I see how many hours he works for us, right?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yet this man and this staff member is so anchored to the Lord right now.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I see what all he's learning, and and it's not because any of his struggles went away.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: He he there's just so many things that he's still facing, yet there is this purpose from the Lord, and now because of those efforts, this man's life was just saved.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, from my perspective, sometimes I feel like it I am in the middle of this hurricane and or or tornado, right?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: And you see all the brokenness, you see people relapsing, you see people and and their faces are changing and their teeth are rotting, and you see people talking about them to themselves, you see people say ugly things in the community about the person, and then you're grieved for that person because of their lack of education and lack of empathy, and then you grieve for the person they're talking about, and then you throw TRM finances and you throw decisions and you throw staffing and you throw HR issues and you throw audits, whatever the case may be, it's swirling, right?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_04: I can't balance that.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: I can't balance that even if I had 15 arms.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_04: I can't balance it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then you throw my case, and and we're a blended family, and there's perceptions, and people talk about me on the scanner page.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Again, I'm in the middle of this tornado.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: I can't balance it.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: What I can say, though, is um that I can stay down without floating into the hurricane and without floating into the tornado because of my faith with the Lord.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: And that does not mean I wake up every day saying, God, thank you for all of the crap you're gonna throw my way today.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I just can't wait how that's gonna deepen my understanding of you.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes my faith is unshakable because I'm shaking my fist at the Lord.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we need to start talking more about hey, your relationship or your faith or whatever with the Lord doesn't always look like dressing your best in a pew at church.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes your most anchoring moments are when nothing of this world makes sense because you are so connected to him talking about why everything is hurtful and wrong.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's a lot to juggle, and that's why I try to um just really begin asking the Lord, and that's probably changed in the last 12 months of God, I've asked you to take um to change my situation and you haven't uh on a personal level.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: God, I've asked you to make things easier on a professional level, and you haven't.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_04: So now my prayer is Lord, I I want to be less focused on balance and less focus on you changing the situation and more focused on just seeking you in it all.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's um a very different perspective for me.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: I hope our listeners stayed with us to hear all that.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that really um really wrapped it together well.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um National Mental Health Awareness Month.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: We want to talk about mental health today on our community, our mission.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a big topic, Lamanda.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: You started out saying this probably should be a series of several different things.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh anchoring ought to be a topic here um in the near future that we talk about that's in relationship to this, because I am certain that uh whoever's listening to this or will be listening to this or has heard a bit of this podcast or knows knows nothing about it are all struggling.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: How do we balance everything in life?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh I think that's important to think about that, but if we are able to balance it, it's all about us.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not really capable of doing everything on our own.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, thank you for what you do.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Amanda, thanks for um anchoring.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh saying what you said, Miriam, thank you for anchoring for many, many, many, many situations over the years.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so today, um, if you have been listening to this and you are in that position between I uh I don't know if I should go this way or that way, there's one thing that you can find, and that is the Lord sees you, he knows you, he loves you.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: He has a plan for you.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it may not be very balanced, but it can be very purposeful.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: And as we learn to lean on him in spite of all things, he can come to us and meet us in our time of need, and also might use us to help someone else.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to our community, our mission.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like more information about the Topeka Rescue Mission, you could go to TRMonline.org.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's T R M Online.org.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being a part of Anchoring with Us here at Topeka Rescue Mission.