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Insights into Eviction Notices and Property Management · The Property Unleashed Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to today's episode, and today I am joined by a special guest.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I have Anthony McMullen here from Homemaker Properties.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Great to have you on again, anthony.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great to be here, be here, busy summer holidays, as always the way looking after the children, but they've gone back to school and nursery now, so it's back to the, as always the way with regards to work.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: What's the next challenge?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: What's the next episode we can do to introduce and grow our company and our business, which is a great thing to do?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Brilliant stuff and of course it is back to business and we thought we'd dive straight into some serious topics today.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: So in today's episode we are going to talk you through well, anthony is actually he's going to talk us through section 8 notices for landlords.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to have a look at the section 21 notices, the government changes or renters reform bill, as they keep changing the name of it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we're going to go through Reventer's rights Bill now.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Reventer's rights Bill there we go.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's got to have a new name with a new government and everything isn't it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: We're going to go through a lot of the legal processes, things to look out for pitfalls and, of course, what we see a lot of people doing wrong as well.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So you know, let's first of all take us through.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: You know what is section 8 notices and when should you be using it.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the section 8 notice.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I mean you can look this up online and you can see all the different terms and conditions as to why you would use a section 8 notice.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: So this is where, for example, you want to get back possession of your property, and that's the same with the section 21 notice as well.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: You want to get back possession of your property.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Now that may well be because of a change of circumstances or a particular type of tenant that are staying, so it may well be a religious body that may well have I don't know someone from the clergy that may want to go into the property.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So they need to get back possession of the property and they'll give a certain amount of notice for that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Or the landlord is wanting to move back into the property himself and to actually use it as his residence.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So there's different types of notices that you can give for that.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: However, in the majority of cases with a Section 8 notice, it tends to be because a tenant's been in breach, they've been naughty, they've done something they shouldn't have done or, more the point, they've not done something they should have done, which basically is paying their rent.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So in a lot of cases they will have, for example, rent arrears or they've not treated the property in the best way that they should have done, whether it be the furniture, they're causing disturbances, a number of different reasons why it may well be.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Now, with a Section 8 notice and the notices that you will issue to your tenants, you've got mandatory grounds which, realistically, as long as you've got proof that the breaches of the tenancy are in line with these terms so, for example, that they are within two months' worth of arrears, for example, that is a mandatory ground.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Now, you've then got your discretionary grounds.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Now, these are the ones that can be argued.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So, for example, if you have to go to court, you've got the discretionary grounds, so they're in arrears.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: It doesn't say specifically they're in two months' arrears, they haven arrears.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't say specifically they're in two months arrears, they haven't kept to some terms of their contract, um, or even if, for example, they say, oh, you've not been treating the furniture as you should have done, using it and abusing the furniture which seems like a funny, uh funny term to have in there, but it does have that in there um, or they've neglected the property, all these sorts of things.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: The discretionary ones can be argued.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: So, for example, if you have to go to court and you say this tenant has been I don't know, for example, causing disturbances, you're going to have to prove that so that maybe will be police statements, all these different things, and the tenant can argue it, whereas with the mandatory grounds, in the end you've got the facts that this particular tenant, for example, is in over two months arrears, which is ground eight, which is a strong, a very strong ground.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Um, that then you can then say look, you know, this can't be argued, this is a fact.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Now, one thing that tends to happen when you're issuing a section eight notice, there may well be that you'll do ground eight, which is that they're in two months arrears.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: You've then got ground 10 the rent is in arrears, but not specifically how much and then ground 11, which is the tenant is repeatedly late with paying their rent.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Now, the reason why you would do that when you go to court, the, and you have to go to court for gaining possession of your property, the magistrate or the county court or community court will say what ground is it that you're wanting to get back possession on?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Now, in some cases and tenants, you'll probably see this quite often There'll be two months in arrears, but they'll pay a little bit to get just below.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Now, magistrates, they've got their heads clear, they're clued up on what's happening with this one and if a tenant doesn't turn up for a hearing, for example, and they can see these different things, they will say, will say right, okay, you're not quite meeting the ground now of ground eight, which you issued when you issued the notice.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: That was particular.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: However, you've got ground 10 and ground 11, which you can use, which are discretionary grounds to still get back possession of your property.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: If it meets ground eight, which is mandatory, the magistrate will give you possession.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: If it is then 10 or 11, which is the discretionary, it's up to them.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: They can't say you know, if you've proved all the reasons why you could, you should get back possession of your property.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Fine, with a mandatory ground, but the discretionary ground is up to the magistrate.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: They will then see the whole picture of what you've done to try and resolve matters, all sorts of things.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: But going back to the start of wanting to ever make a claim of a section 8 and a section 21, your paperwork has to be watertight.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: That's what's so, so, so important, documenting anything and everything you do so.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: When you're moving a tenant in, obviously they've got their how to rent guide.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: They've got all the safety certificates that they should have.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: The deposit was insured within 30 days.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: You've got their how to rent guide.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: They've got all the safety certificates that they should have.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: The deposit was insured within 30 days.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: You've got a deposit certificate or proof that it was insured.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: If you're doing a custodial insurance policy for the deposit and tenancy agreements in place, you've done the smoke test.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: You've got proof of the smoke test at the start of the tenancy.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So basically, everything was done correctly at the start.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: As long as that was all correct, because you need to provide proof of that, great.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: You can then go on to the next stage of issuing the notice.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Now, when you issue the notice, I'll always say, as with anything you do, you've got to have proof.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: You've done it and done it properly.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: So ideally, the way we would do it is we would take the notice to the property and we would give it to the tenant and get them to sign for it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Now, the likelihood of that are they going to accept you giving them a notice or will they mysteriously not be there when you want to go and do a periodic visit to see them.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: So another way that we tend to do it is we will go to the property.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: We will take date stamped photos proving we're at the property, outside the property with the address of the person, then around the street to prove that you're in that particular location, then posting it through the letterbox, we'll get a photo with that date stamping that you've been there and you've done that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, we will also send it electronically by email.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So you've sent it in two ways.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: The tenant can't deny then that they haven't received the notice.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: That's the route that we go down.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: There are other ways in which you can it recorded mail, but they can then in some cases not sign for it and reject that they've received it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: So when you go to court they're not going to try and find a way in which you haven't done this.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: You can't prove that you've given it to them.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: They do have reasonable thoughts of well, you've gone to the extra lengths here to make sure that this tenant has got it.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Gone to the extra lengths here to make sure that this tenant has got it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: If they're saying they haven't received it, well, you've exchanged emails on that email account in the past.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, you've been to the property.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: You've proved all these different things.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: So if it's a rent arrears notice, for example, the notice period is two weeks, for example, with a Section 8 on a ground date of 10 and 11, which is for their arrears.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Now what we will tend to do is, let's say, for example, it's on a Monday that you're issuing the notice.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I won't have that notice expire until two weeks, wednesday.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: The reason why I do that is yes, you're delivering on the day.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: They could then say oh well, it's, you know, I didn't receive it till the next day, and just arguments over the fact of the notice period.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: It's like, for example, a Section 21 notice.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: When you're issuing the two months Two months and two days Give it an extra period.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm trying to say.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Just cover all bases.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: What's two days going to make no difference at all.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Now, with the Section 8 notice, obviously you've got to make sure you give the correct notice period, the correct tenant details on there as well, but you've also got to provide them the how to rent guide.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: What I'd always recommend is that you look up everything online of exactly what you've got to make sure that you do as far as the documentation that you provide with the notice so that may be the safety certificates, for example, as well as the how to rent guide making sure then you've got proof.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: But again, when you send it, deliver it by hand.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: But, in addition to that, send it by email and make sure you've got proof of everything that you've done.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Now, at the start of a tenancy, I always recommend electronic signature websites such as DocuSign, or Signable is the website that we use.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: That is legally recognised in court as a signature.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Now, the great thing with that is, for example, my colleague Liam, who does our paperwork.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: He will send everything that needs to be sent to that tenant electronically.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: They will sign it electronically.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So you've got an audit trail of everything you provided for them how to write guide, the safety, safety certificates, the tenancy agreement, the deposit cert, the prescribed information, all the stuff you need to have given to them.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: They will have received that and you've got that audit audit trail proof so they can say I did receive that.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You won't an epc, for example.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I've, I've got proof of this.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Um, so with section eight notices, you will have to go to court if that tenant doesn't vacate the route we would tend to go down give the two weeks notice.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: We'll say, if it's arrears, clear those arrears by this point, or agree a payment plan which the landlord is happy with, and if that's happy, you keep to that.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Now, typically a Section 8 notice currently, I believe lasts for six months.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: So, having given that two weeks notice for the next six months months, you can then apply to the courts for a court hearing based upon that section 8 notice.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: If they don't keep to it, a tenant.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: So if you agree a payment plan, great um.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Or if they, you know, clear the arrears, they do everything.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: But the key thing with this is when a tenant says oh, no, no, and they try and get you know and I'll try and do this on my situation changes.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, you've got a legal contract.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: This is where you've got your legal toolkit.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Use the terms in your contract to get back possession of your property.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: So you've got control, because that's the key thing.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Control of your property is the key thing.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Even if you do a deal with the tenant, I'll give you your full deposit back.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Control of your property is the priority.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: That's what's so, so, so important.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Once you've got those keys back.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: They've signed to say that, yes, they've given back possession, they've agreed it, whatever it may well be, but that possession is.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: That is the key, the key goal.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Now, when you go to court and if you sorry, if the tenant hasn't moved out after two weeks notice, you say right, I'm now going to apply to the courts Now.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Currently, timescales-wise it's not the quickest route.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You could be waiting two months before you get a court hearing.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Then, when you go to court, you've got to obviously then make sure that you've provided all the documentation to the court before you go of the evidence and then obviously making sure that you've got proof that you're chasing that tenant, you're providing communication, then you're trying to liaise with them, you're trying to resolve this matter.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You just haven't just right, haven't paid right, we're going to court.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That's that you need to keep on proving that.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: You're then chasing that tenant to try and agree something, communications with them being reasonable, although not harassing them, and You're going one side or another.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: It's just showing to the courts that you're trying to do everything you can to try and help the tenant, whatever their changing circumstances.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: A bit Now when you obviously have the hearing, in a lot of cases the tenant won't turn up and as long as your paperwork's watertight, you've done all you possibly can do.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: The tenant, for example, is over two months in arrears, paperwork's watertight, you've done all you possibly can do.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: The tenant, for example, is in, is over two months in arrears.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: The judge will tend to give you your possession order and typically they'll then say right, we will now write to the tenant to tell them in two weeks time you have the right now to get back possession of your product.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: They'll give you a possession order um sheet form, um.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Now, unfortunately, and in particular it can happen with tenants that may well be on benefits.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: They will be told sit tight until the bailiffs come, which I'm not sure if yet whether you've had this situation happen with yourself, which is very frustrating for a landlord, you know.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: It just extends the process and bailiffs may not be for another six weeks.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So you think to yourself okay, we've done the two weeks notice at the start for the section eight.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: You've then had another two months, say, for example, for the court here.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: You've got another two weeks, and then you may well have another three, four, five, six weeks until the bailiff's come it.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: You know you're tottering up there nearer six months that you may not have your rent coming in if you have to go down this route.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Um, but this is what's in place at the moment.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So, as far as Section 8 notice, it can, if issued with a two-week notice, you know, can get you resolved matters very quickly.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: A tenant may well be very scared by this.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Or, if there's a guarantor in place, make sure that the guarantor has sent the notice as well as the tenant, and then try and speak with the guarantor and emphasise to them, for example well, this is going to hinder your credit score as well as, obviously, the tenants.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: We can make a claim against, you know, a money claim, to make sure we get back this money from you after the court possession hearings have been done, and that sometimes can help, because children are not telling their parents, maybe if they're university students, what they're spending the money on.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: It should have been paid to you.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: So, yes, that can be the route you go down.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: There's different notice periods for different terms and conditions as far as the section actually do look through that, but typically it's going to be your two week notice for arrears, which hopefully will resolve matters, but worst case, you're going to have to go to court and typically the court fees I think £350, £400, I think is typically to do a possession claim online with regards to a Section 8 notice, getting the possession back.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: So, yes, the tools are there, but you've got to make sure you do it and you do it right and you've proved you've done it right as well.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely got to make sure you do it and you do it right and you've proved you've done it right as well.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: And I think, looking at that, I think a lot of landlords particularly, uh, are afraid of the court proceedings, the costs and everything you know, um, and probably sits with a bad tenant far too long, maybe because, like you say, the tenants are there, well, I'll pay next week, or pay next month, or I'll pay double, and then it never happens next month, because we go on good faith and we, we tend, as humans, to try and ease the burden or pain of actually taking action on things and we'd rather sit through it in a very slow bubble and sort of like they do with a boy, and a frog and it'll sit there that's what, as landlords, I've seen it time and time again.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: People said to do that.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: You know, a leopard never changes its spots.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, now some people could be on hardship and we want to try and work and help people.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Some people, you know, lose their jobs and stuff and get embarrassed by it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: We've had that uh, and then you know they're more than thankful for the fact that we go in there, we support them and we help them, but other people are just there, they're just taking the mickey, um, and I would.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I would say then that by understanding this, as anthony just put out, there is to say that, just because you've served the notice, you know, like you say, it stands for six months.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So if you do come to an agreement, it's almost to say brilliant stuff, but this still stands.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: So if you do still let us down, we will take this action further forward.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And it's already the wheels are in motion, aren't they?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: yes, once that two-week notices period I mean.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: In some case you get reactions and tenants say oh gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Um, or here's another avenue you may want to look down, because typically on your tenant application forms you will have an emergency point of contact.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Now, if a tenant isn't reacting to your emails, your phone calls, your text messages, you may well have a concern about their health and safety.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So you may well wish to contact their emergency point of contact and explain I've been trying to get hold of mr jones.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I can't get hold of him.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: We've got concern about his health and safety and we say we've been trying to get hold of him because the fact that he hasn't paid his rent arrears.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: So we just want to see you know what, what's happening, and that may well then again, you've got an emergency point of contact, they use it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: That may well then trigger some more reactions there, because that's not unreasonable what you're doing in doing that, because if they're not replying, yes, it could well be their health and safety you're concerned about.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: However, it's another avenue to communicate with another person who's involved.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: They can't be held because they're not a guarantor liable for it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: However, that may well then instigate some action back for you, because you've contacted another person yeah, we've done that a couple of times with people that have stopped paying all of a sudden.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: You can't get out of them.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: You can't get out of them if you have no money.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: So you get hold of the guarantor, have a little chat with those and I would say, in the two cases that we've done, within a week we started receiving more money.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's amazing what happens, isn't it, guarantors?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: wonderful, emergency points of contact is just that next step that you can go to um as another point person.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: That, yes, may well be, and there's some cases that it may well be that you then have to liaise with the emergency point of contact, because I know we've had certain tenants, as you said, their circumstances change and they may avoid the point of contact.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: They may well not have mobile phones, they may well not have an email address, so they've got their friend, or they may well have a number of different circumstances that could occur.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So if you've got another ally that you can deal with to try and resolve matters, that's a good thing to have now, just while we're on these sections section 8, section 21, uh, just for people uh listening or watching this.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: What's the difference between those two?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: okay, section 8 notice.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Typically um is a reason.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: You've got reasons why you want to regain possession of your property, whether that be a tenancy breach or a change of circumstance.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: London wants to move in, sell the property, or the mortgage company repossessed the property, for example.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: A number of different reasons why, with your Section 8 notice, now a Section 21, 21 notice which we can currently use and I'll come on to later why I'm saying currently um is a no-fault eviction, so the notice period for a section 21 is two months or, as I said, two months and two days, as I'll typically give with regards to a section 21.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: So it's a no-fault eviction, so these can be issued.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: So, for example, if a, a tenant, has done a six month tenancy and they're in a rolling tenancy, then it goes month by month, by month.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: They haven't signed another renewal for another fixed term.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Once they're in that period of tenancy, you can issue a section 21.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Or you can issue it at month four to end, at the end of their six month tenancy.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: To say, at the end of that period the landlord will not be renewing your tenancy, we wish you to vacate.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: At this point.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: You are then giving them two months notice.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Again, your paperwork has to be watertight to be able to actually get back position, for example, if a tenant doesn't want to leave and you then have to try and get possession or claim you know, claim for possession back for the courts.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Again, your paperwork has to be watertight again and you have to prove that that's been done.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Now you don't have to give reasons why they're in breach of the tenancy.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Because they're not in breach If you're doing a section 21,.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Typically, you can say the reason we want to get back possession of the property.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: You don't need to give a reason no fault, great thing about it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Two months notice, as I said, is what you'll give for a section 21.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And then you'll ask the tenant to give back possession at the end of the tenancy.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Um, now, if a tenant doesn't vacate with section 8, you have to have a court hearing.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: With the section 21, you can do something called an accelerated possession order claim.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: So, if all of your paperwork is watertight, as I've said, what you then have to do is an online application, an accelerated possession claim order, which you then send to the courts.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Basically, you send all of your proof that the paperwork's been done correctly.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Here's the deposit cert.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Here's the safety cert.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Here's the notice that we issued.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Here's the proof we issued this notice.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Here's all the proofs of everything we've done correctly.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Here's the proof of the notice.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And then at some point that could be in a month, it could be longer and then at some point it could be in a month, it could be longer you will get sent back a claim of possession claim, basically order that you can then go to the tenant and say right, I can now claim back possession of the property.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I can legally do this Again.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Then, if the tenant doesn't vacate, you can go to the bailiffs and provide them with this that you've got from the courts.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: So the key thing with a Section 21, if a tenant doesn't vacate, you don't have to have a court hearing.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: In a lot of cases you can say look, I've given all the notices, I've done everything as I should have done.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I just want possession back of my property.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Now, again, this can be a six-month process.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: In the process of then getting this, you know you do two months initially notice, then you've then got to then get your accelerated possession claim to the courts.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Then you're then waiting for that possession claim order that you're going to have, then you might have to have bailiffs.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So it's a lengthy, lengthy process.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: But you're more.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: As long as your paperwork is watertight, you're more likely to get back possession of your property with a section 21 than a section 8, because section 8 there's wobblies there on the fact of they could.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: If it's for arrears, they could reduce their arrears price, the court hearing and then it then up in the air again.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: It then depends on what happens, but section 21 is a great tool in your toolkit because some landlords may well want to say look, I want to do work on my property, I want to move back in all these different things.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: And it's a nice way to a tenant just say to them look, situations change, we need to give you notice and two months tends to be a good amount of time to find a new property to move to.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: And if they're in a periodic tenancy, they can still give you one month's notice at any point to vacate before the end of that two months.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: If you know things, things are working out with them.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Um, but the key thing is making sure that your claim is correct, your paperwork's watertight and obviously then you do everything you issue, everything you should do to it and prove that you've done it.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So, again, you delivering it to the property with date stamp photos, as we will do, um then send it electronically.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It may even be that you send the date stamp photos of delivering it by hard copy to the property, with your electronic version of it as well.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: So you're covering all bases, um, but both ways, then, are trying to get back possession of your property.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: There's there's two avenues that you can go down nice and I think some of it's.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Another thing that a lot of investors, landlords and things get caught up in is the emotion of all of this, because a lot of the time it's very, very easy to start taking all of this very personally, because a lot of the time it's your money, it's your profits, it's your business, uh.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Which is why sometimes it can be really, really good thing to do is to remove yourself from this, because it's easy to start getting into.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: You know arguments with people, um, you know temperatures rise and all of those sorts of things as well.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: If you have a level head and you can remove the emotion from it which is easier said than done and you can have the conversations a lot of the time, you can resolve things, you can get things going.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: You can help people.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You can, you can do it rationally.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: But as soon as you start arguing, as soon as you know, all of a sudden, one side's wall's gone up, the other side's wall's gone up, you're just banging heads.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, you're in a very, very difficult position because people will start to do things to spite you.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: They're like I'm not going yet, I'm going to hold on right to the end.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: because I don't like them.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: They're an idiot and they said this, they said that and stuff.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So if you can get somebody else to be a neutral party that can do it on act on your behalf, that that does it in a I'd say, in a pleasant manner, which is polite and courteous and everything to everybody's needs, that can really help the circumstances and the situation, can't it?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: yeah, very much so.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and if any anyone ever says to me, you know what tip would you give me as far as these sorts of proceedings is?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Never give an opinion, just state the facts.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is the facts.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Use your legal toolkit and if there's ever any arguments but you didn't do this, you didn't do that.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: So well, the facts are that we did X, y and Z.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: This is what the situation is and now, in line with your contract, these are the terms that you're in breach of and now we are now applying to the court.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: So, in the end, the law is doing its job for you and you're just stating what the true facts are.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Never give an opinion, because that's where all of us are.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It gets one way or another, um, but no, very much so, and obviously with us as an agent, obviously.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've got a biased opinion of the fact that I say that all landlords should have their properties with an agent, because compliance as well as a middleman.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, it will cost you, but how much does your time cost if you're managing your portfolio?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: How much time are you spending each and every month managing your portfolio?
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And then, when this comes up, you're like, well, what do I do now?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden you've got a raise and you're like well, what do I need to do?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: How do I get to cut?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: How do I get back possession of my property?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Did I issue a section?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Do I?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Did I issue a how to rent guide?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I can't remember.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And did I do this?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: What if I haven't done that?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Then I can't do that.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: What do I?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: And this is, you know, all of a sudden, the stresses, the threats, the worries.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: And then you have to go to the tenant and say, look, I'll give you, if you leave, I'll give you your deposit back.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: And you're thousands and thousands of pounds, far more than you would be if you had an agent that would have done it and done it right from the start.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm biased, of course I am, but I'm not being unreasonable with these facts.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: That's the thing I'm saying no, no, I get it, I get it.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: But the other thing is make sure you do your due diligence on your agents as well yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I mean there's one lady, um, who I um, I met yesterday.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Actually she's got two properties in coventry.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And she says because I I did the pin investing coventry talk which I did at the pin meeting last month, I did once a year, lots and lots of information about investing in coventry.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: And she says gosh, you know you're so passionate.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: She says but you know what you're doing and that's the key thing, you're past as well as a personal for me and Alison.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: We, we run the company, we're in the company and anyone who owns their own business, you've got a personal interest in your business doing well, but I want investors to do well, I want them to be compliant.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: She says I've never seen this before.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: She says usually I'm managing myself, but I just don't have the time, can you help?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And I said well, yes, that's what we're here for.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And I and I then said, well, what sort of rents were you receiving previously?
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And I say, oh, x, I was like, but you could be receiving y, and this is, you know, and um, this is generally tends to be, and also you'll find with landlords that are self-managing, they may well oh, they're lovely tenants, oh, I don't want to put the rent up.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: You know, they've looked at no better in your pocket than in tenants pockets.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: And also a realization of the fact of that if they went to another property they would be spending x.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Now, fair enough, if you want to bridge the gap between halfway towards that way.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a realisation of what people should be paying as well.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because at some point the rents will go up and it'll be such a big leap that you know that's when they'll start to really have problems, won't they?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So, if you, can do it, you know every 12 months just gradually keep an increase, or every 24 months just little instruments as it's going up, can really really help.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: The one concern people have about doing it?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Um, you can.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Currently, you can just agree between the two parties and once the tenant starts paying the increased rent, that's fine.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: But what I would always tend to say and again, base it on facts that this is what john smith's paying down the road with an identical property to you, you're paying x.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you can appreciate all these different things are increasing at rent, including more.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I need to increase your rent with this in mind.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I won't put it as high as that, but what I'll do is I'll put it up to here for you, which is it may well be, instead of a 50 pound increase, it's going to be a 35 pound increase because it's it's normal.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Now, typically, you can just do a renewal contract where they commit to a new term, if you like, and you can do that once a year where you increase your rent.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: If the tenant doesn't want to commit to a new period, they can do a Section 13 notice which just says you're carrying on the same rolling contract, but your rent is going up from this point up to this much.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So, again, make sure you look at what documentation needs to be issued if you are doing both of those there and what do you think of the rent guarantee insurance?
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I think that, um, it's a cost, um, but in some cases it can be a very worthwhile cost.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I mean typically for landlords.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Three, four percent roughly is what typically of your monthly rent you'll pay for an insurance policy on your rent.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Now I had a landlord who, unfortunately, came to me and says, oh, I've had a marijuana farm that's popped up in my house.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: The tenants have gallivanted off, they've left my house in absolute state.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately I don't have insurance for the property as far as the breach the tenants have done.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: So I've now got to pay out for the redecoration of this property, to get it back in order, what you know what, what needs to be in place.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And I says, well, did you have rent guarantee?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: He says, oh, yeah, we did.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden he's got his rent paid until they got back, officially got back possession of that property.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: In addition to to that, once it was officially deemed as that the tenancy had ended for the previous tenants that the police should have yeah, should have got, but didn't for insufficient proof.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: But once the possession back with the landlord, they then said well, we're going to pay you 75 percent of the rent until you get it re-let.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: So that landlord's all of a sudden not missed out on any rent, and typically they have a one month and we use let alliance for our rent guarantee.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: There's a one month excess, which tends to be covered by the deposit anyway, um, but then the rest of the period is then covered by rent guarantee, which is great.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Now there's another situation that's occurred, um, with another tenant, has her, she was earning good money, um, but then what's happened is, unfortunately she's lost her job.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Now that's again, there's nothing against her, but then obviously she can't go anywhere else to try and find another property.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So she's in a conundrum of what I, I, you know, I I've, you know, I've got nowhere I can go to.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: So we've obviously then gone to rent guarantee insurance, and what they will do is they will ask to approve the tenancy was done correctly, the credit checks were done, the right to rent checks were done, all of the different stuff that should have been done, as well as all the safety certs were up to date, all of that sort of stuff to prove that the claim can be done.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: They will then start any notices, for example to the tenants, which is a section 8 notice, um, if the tenant doesn't then resolve matters, they can then issue a section 21 if they think that's the worthwhile route or if they're insufficient arrears, they then can um apply to the courts for you.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: They will have a legal representative at the courts for you to try and regain possession.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But all of that is covered under the insurance policy their expertise, because in the end they're paying you this rent guarantee insurance.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: They'd rather not be paying you that.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Of course they wouldn't.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: They're a business so they want to get back possession that property as quickly as possible.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: So, as long as it meets all the criteria it needs to meet, that's what's really important to make sure that your paperwork is watertight.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: But another thing they ask for and we use PayProp for our client account management when you've got lots and lots of rents coming in.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: But if there's arrears, it automatically sends out reminders, automatically sends out reminders, and that's what's really important with the process of arrears.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: You've got to prove that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: You're then trying to keep on asking that tenant.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: And one of the key criterias with let's Alliance was have you been communicating with the tenant about their areas and have you been trying to get payment from them?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's your proof.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: So with the, I mean, we've had rent guarantee insurance with our landlords now for about the last two or three years.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: We've made three or four claims and they've all gone through fine and landlords have thought gosh, I'm so, so, so glad I did.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: There's been two cases of getting back possession.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: One of the ladies left early, one of them went to court and we've got another one that's going on at the moment.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You know, having these cover in place it's cost a little bit extra to have it but because of circumstances changing of tenants not them being malicious they've been fantastic tenants for a number of years.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: In some cases paid their rent.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: One particular tenant has been.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: They said well, I want the rental set for the last two years Paid every month.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Not a problem, even when we did the rent increase paid every month.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: But all of a sudden something's happened.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: It's happened and the key thing that's really important when you do a renting, get rent guarantee insurance claim is look at the timescales when you need to make a claim so that, for example, we have to make sure that once that rent is paid, the latest you can make a claim is on the 30th day, for example, before it flips to the next month's rent due.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: That's when you need to make the claim, just before it flips into the second month of arrears.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: So if they've not paid their rent for that month, need to make a claim on the 30th day for the rent, rent guarantee insurance.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: They will then ask for more, but because you've logged it at that point, that means then you've met with their criteria to make sure that they will pay you all your money back, bar your one month excess, um, but fully recommend it, um, just as a as a safety measure for you.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: As I've said, we've been doing it for three years.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: We've got hundreds of tenancies and, yes, we've had four claims over those periods of time.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: But that one particular landlord that had the unfortunate situation of a marijuana farm that popped up in his property, um, with a perfect, it was a couple with a young child.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Um, but have it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I spoke to eon, I think it was.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: No, is it like the electrical company about it?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Because we're going out to five of these a day where we're having to cut off the electric, five a day, and that's in the local area.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow, and heaven knows whether that's more and more around the country.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: But, um, yes, something to be wary of.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: So what I would always, always say, and that's another tip gosh, we're going off all the triangles here, I know, but, um, if you have a tenant applicant that may look like oh wow, and he's even offering to pay more rent than I'm asking for, alarm bells yeah, that's what I'll say dig and, dig and dig into that person, make sure.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And if you can find other points of contact there and their employment status, call the employer proof.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And oh, if you've got suspicions, dig that little bit deeper to make sure that things are covered.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: They may will pass through flying colors with credit checks and referencing, but dig that little bit deeper to make sure that things are covered.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: They may well pass through flying colors with credit checks and referencing, but dig that little bit deeper for reference, for their previous landlord, for example, and their employer, to make sure you're covered with it yeah, no, brilliant, I think.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Put it down as a business cost.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: You know, treat your property investing as a business and you would always have the relevant insurance to make sure that you're covered.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: You know most people do it the right way, will not drive their car without having insurance on it in case it takes a bang, a dink, in which case you're covered.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Look at that as the same thing when you've got people staying in your properties and things.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It might cost you a little bit of money here, but it could save you a fortune in the long run.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: So I know time is a ticket and we wanted to just touch on.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: We might do another episode on this.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: We're going to more detail, but let's just touch on what uh, our new uh government have started to propose that they're going to be changing the renters rights bill.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: They've just put another word in instead of renters reform, the renters rights bill, and that means it's labor, labor's um policies now.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So, um, for a long, long time, the no fault eviction.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: They've been looking to get rid of it, which is a good tool to have in your toolkit.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's abused and I think, in my opinion, it can be a bit short sighted in removing it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: However, it is what it is and, as is always the way with landlords, flexible and adaptable move on.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: That's what's going to happen.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: The Section 8 notice they're going to inc.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: They're going to be adding additional terms in there for you to be able to get back possession your property, for example, if you want to move.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: You know a number of different criterias that could occur, which will replace the section 21 is my understanding with different time scales and turn notices and whatnot.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: But the ground eight, rent arrears, which was the mandatory ground, which was the two months arrears which you've got.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Currently there, the tenant has to have at least three months arrears, or 13 weeks if rent is paid weekly or fortnightly rent arrears at the time the notice is served.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So, as it is at the moment, it's a case of it's two months arrears.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Then putting up to three months is what the proposal is going to be, and the notice period that was two weeks is going to go up to four weeks why is next month going to change?
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: it just means that it's honestly frustrations.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Um then, as far as discretionary grounds, you've got ground 10, which is any rent arrears, the tenancies in any amount of arrears, the notice period is going to be four weeks rather than two weeks, because you know, I say eight, 10 and 11 are the typically wide, so you'll cover all bases if you go to court to get back possession of your property.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And 11, which is persistent rent arrears, again, it's going to be four weeks notice.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: That's going to be happening in there as well.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: So, admittedly, I'm only going on to the ones here that are particularly for the rent arrears, but oh, Get that cover, get that rent guarantee insurance.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you that.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Although, as Alison said to me, she says, oh, I bet them fees are going to be going up on the rent guarantee.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'll bet they are.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: You're a business, you're making advantage of the situation as far as the companies are concerned.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: But, yes, it may well be the rent guarantee.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Insurance may well increase, but hey, we'll have to see what happens.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: But, as with anything flexible and adaptable, know your stuff, prove everything that you're doing, document everything, make sure you look up exactly what you should be doing if you're self-managing.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: But just be prepared for what's coming.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And if you've got a tenant you're concerned about in the longer term, you may well wish to issue section 21s now and maybe bring for, bring forward a property refurb, to do it now rather than next year and then work amicably with the tenant.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Perhaps, um, maybe, give them a little bit longer but yeah, that's great advice, great advice.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Well, as always, I mean, I could, we could, we could go on we'll save that for the next episode, because I love to have you on each and every month to to give us your wisdom, uh, and to give us, you know, an insight into what is happening into the property market at the moment, into the lettings markets as well, obviously.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: You have, uh, your homemaker properties which are based down in Coventry, so you know, if you're in and around those areas and stuff like that, do make sure that you check out Anthony and Alison's business there, because they are, it's built by investors for investors, so it really is there to help and support everybody else and, as you can tell, they know their stuff, which is why I love to have you on just to give us you know, keep us up to date with everything.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I know that Section 8 can be one of those things.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: That's very, very scary If you don't know what you're doing.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Like you say, I'm not 100 percent sure I've given out those contracts, have I had them sign that?
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Will I get to court?
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Will it be thrown straight out because we haven't done something here?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So do make sure, as a business and we say property is a business you get the professionals in.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: You don't have to know everything you know.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: None of us have to know everything.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: We just need to know the people that know the stuff that we need at the time.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: So make sure you always do your due diligence on everybody.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Remember the cheapest option isn't normally the best option.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: In most cases, I'd say pretty much.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: In any case, you know you end up paying twice if you, if you go cheap.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So go with the right professionals, get the right support there.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: And have you got any final tips before we wrap this one up, mate?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: yeah, the good agents aren't cheap and cheap agents aren't good.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I think's the phrase um.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: What I will say is that if you've got concerns over whether you're going to have done things and done things right, you know um, go and speak to the professionals very much.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: So look at your paperwork, dig into your paperwork and if it hasn't been done right at the start, then do a renewal with that particular tenant and do the paperwork correctly.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Then from that point onwards, for example, get it so it's correct.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: So if you then need to make a claim in the future, in addition to that you may want to then introduce the rent guarantee insurance, which then means that you've got yourself covered, because if you do need to do legal applications, they do it for you.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: You do need to do section 8.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: You do need to do section 20, they do it for you.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You need to go to court, they do it for you.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: You'll need to go with them, but you'll have a legal representative there that's covering you for a couple of percent of your rent go if you rent each and every month, but it's a nice to have in per se place for you to cover yourself should the worst happen, which is very, a very, very, very small percentage, but it's nice to have in place.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: And that's it.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: You know it is a small percentage.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Make sure that the communications are good, Make sure everything's documented.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I mean what Anthony's told you there could actually, in the future, save you thousands, absolutely thousands.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: So that advice is worth the fortune.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: So if you're listening or, as I say, watching this, be making notes on these things, as I say also, do reach out to them as a business and as a company as well.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: They are there to help and support everybody.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Once again, my friend always a pleasure to have you on, and I look forward to having you back in a few weeks time and we'll go into another subject in a bit more detail and maybe see what else the government's throwing at us.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: We will know more next month, I'm sure Brilliant Maybe see what else the government's throwing at us.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: We will know more next month, I'm sure.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So all that leaves me to say is, if you need any further help in your property investing or anything like that, do check us out on the social channels.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: All the links are below these episodes.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: We are there to help and support everybody, and I hope you've enjoyed this episode.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: If you have, please feel free to like, share, subscribe or leave a review, as it's much appreciated, and I look forward to you joining us in the next episode.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe you're going to go and join us now, but until then, see you there.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye, thank you very much.